On The Record: Nathan East on playing bass for Michael Jackson

Nathan Heath discusses his approach to playing music, his busy year in 2023, and his various recording projects. He talks about the special experience of recording an album with his son and gives advice on nurturing musical talent in children. He emphasizes the importance of his classical training and the value of reading music. He also discusses the benefits of playing fretless bass and his long-standing relationship with Yamaha. He shares the story of recovering a lost P bass and highlights the common thread of kindness among the legends he has worked with. I think first and foremost is something that serves whatever the song is doing, you know, so a lot of times I like to just play the simplest part that I can do that it becomes like foundation for what I'm hearing on top of me. So it's nice to hear the melody and whatever the chords are going to be and know where the spaces are that there's not any lyrics that you'd be stepping on by playing something. Hi, I'm Nathan Heath and this is On The Record with Ultimate Guitar. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. I know you've been a busy guy. What have you been up to in 2023? Oh, nothing. No, it's been, this year has been, this has probably been the busiest year in 40 years, like one long day, just continual projects and tours and having the time of my life. Just finished the Clapton U.S. tour and concluded with the two shows at the Crypto.com arena for the Crossroads Guitar Festival. So that was pretty exciting. And, but then there's been, you know, there's been a lot of recording. I've done, you know, several projects this year, including one with Jack Lee called Heart and Soul that just came out. Also, my Nate Most, it's an Atmos experience recording where everything is in Atmos, you know, sounds like it's even more high fidelity than 5.1, you know, just speakers around and that's really fun. And then really excited recording an album with my son Noah. And that'll be due out next year. And one that's coming out in Japan next month is one with Seiko Matsuda and it's called Seiko Jazz 3. And we've had been having a good time recording that this year as well. Recording an album with your son has to be such a cool experience for you as a father. Where does that rank, I guess, in all the albums and all the songs that you've recorded? That's got to be pretty special. Oh no, it ranks right up there at the very top, you know, it touches my heart in a way that none of the other projects do. And it's just so enjoyable because it's like the music is coming out of the same DNA, you know, so he's hearing around corners and his gift is pretty special. For those parents who are first noticing that their kids are into music, that they're enjoying music, do you have some advice for those parents on how to nurture that and how to kind of push them or guide them along in their musical journey? Yeah, based pretty much on what we did, we just, you know, exposed him to as much music as possible and also had piano lessons and he was in a program called Piano Play. And they, you know, they had different levels and they would do recitals every year and just something to keep engaged and especially piano is, I think, a great instrument just for the brain in general. And so I would just say just, you know, expose them to as much as possible and if they really take to it, it's fun to watch. So as I understand it, you started out on cello. How important is that basis of music theory or kind of that classical trained, you know, learning piano, learning these classical instruments, learning how to read notes on a page, how important is that to or how important has that been to you in your musical journey specifically? Right, for me it was invaluable because first of all, it just gave me, it put me right in the middle of the orchestra and so it gave me a chance to really get my chops together in terms of reading, listening and performing in that environment. And it also later on would help me with my sight reading when it came time to move to Los Angeles and sight read, you know, jingles, movie scores, records, soundtracks, all of the above. So tablature, of course, Ultimate Guitar being a tablature sight, it's a little more of a simplified version of sight reading, but what role do you think sight reading or tablature specifically should have in a musician's development? Well, I think it's absolutely important even though there are a lot of musicians that have become successful without it and if you're one of the lucky few, it's like winning the lottery, you know, if you can get there without it. But I just think it's important to have as many, you know, arrows in your sheath as you can, you know, and as much in your arsenal and reading is definitely one of the things that I know was beneficial to me, especially moving to LA and when people, composers like Gene Page, who used to write every note, you know, you just, and he was always complimenting me saying that, wow, not only can you read it, but you can interpret it and make it feel good and sound good. So that was one of the things I think that really helped me out a lot. So you started out on cello, you've played fretless bass, you've played fretted bass. For those of us that have been confined to the fretted world for most of our careers, what can those people, or myself included, I don't play fretless very much, what can we learn from venturing into that fretless territory? Well, I would say, first of all, it's the best ear training because, you know, if your finger is just, you know, moving in either direction, just minutely, it's going to be out of tune. So I used to marvel at Jaco Pastorius where like he would play these three note chords on the fretless and every note would be in perfect tune. And so that's what we want, you know, and so it's great ear training if anything. And the fretless is also, you know, able to make these sounds that you can't make on any other instrument, you know, with that sliding and that sort of growl that you get with the fretless. So it's very unique and one of those instruments is just very expressive. And you, of course, have your own signature basses now with Yamaha. You've been with them for a long time, so I wanted to ask how you first got hooked up with them and why have you stayed with them for so long? I would imagine there were other offers from other companies. What's made you stick with Yamaha for so long? Yeah, Yamaha has been one of those basses that I just, and I remember early 80s listening to Abraham Lavoriel in the studio and of course his playing was phenomenal, but I just said, what is that sound? What is that bass? And he came and showed me and he had a Yamaha bass that he had picked up from Japan and he introduced me to Hadi who put the first Yamaha bass in my hands, I think it was 1981. And I just remembered the way it felt, sounded, and then it always just in recording, it just seemed to blend with the music. Like we just mixed, it didn't stick out too much and it had a really nice recording quality that I liked a lot. And I was always looking for a sound that would just fit into the music perfectly. And that's what these basses do. You take them right out of the case. I took one Yamaha bass out of the case in Japan, it was a six string and played it on a gentleman named Kazumasa Oda. He was recording, we did one song and I came back three months later and they said that song sold six million albums or singles. And I thought, I just like straight out of the bass and even out of the case, the bass was in tune and there's just a lot to love about those instruments. And every year I noticed that they're always improving and we were always trying to kind of just take the sound to the next level. And so I've had my signature bass now for many years and it continues to serve me well. And I recall hearing a story recently about you reacquiring a P bass that you had been using before you got your Yamaha. I always love stories about that. When these guitars get recovered, when you lose them, it's such a devastating thing and to see them get recovered is so amazing. So can you kind of take us through that story? How did it get lost and how did you recover it? That P bass along with an upright bass actually, which I can't figure out how an upright bass goes missing. And in the early 80s when I was doing a lot of sessions in many different studios around the LA area, we all had like cartage companies that they basically have all your gear set up and ready to go when you play. So Royal Cartage, who I was with and very busy, you know, recording all over LA. When they changed locations, they got to a new warehouse and for whatever reason, my upright bass and my P bass disappeared. And unbeknownst to me, the owner of the company had put them kind of in safekeeping in his office, you know. And just to go to show you how long ago that was, you know, he had passed away. And I know those guys for 40 years, you know, but he passed away. And I got a call when they went into his office and there was my P bass and upright sitting in a corner, I guess, where he kind of stashed it, you know. And I think they were there for safekeeping. And I guess nobody had really gone into his office that much while he was alive. And so it was just like, you know, opening the case and seeing a friend. I mean, I use that P bass on every record that I recorded on in the early 80s, you know. So it was a really exciting to get it to recover it and get it back. And that was that was used on the Barry White recordings, correct? Yes. Yes. I used it with Barry. A lot of it was on Hubert Law's family, which was one of the first recordings that I did in L.A. And you could just hear that distinctive sound. It just pops and and it's that real fresh P bass sound, you know. You played with so many legends through the years. I got to ask, is there a common thread between, you know, all these guys, Clapton and Michael Jackson and all these legends that you've worked with? Is there a common thread between all of them that makes them so successful? Well, I think the one thing that I've noticed is they're all some of the nicest people that you've ever met. You know, this is like a really, really fun to get along with. And so from from the human element, they just are very nice. And but then again, you go to their talents, you know, and there are very many, very many drummers who feel like Phil Collins, and not to mention that he's one of the greatest singers, songwriters. You take all that and put it into one person and there's no denying the success. Same with Eric. I mean, we've done a few gigs recently where we've done some private events where they were just in a small restaurant or in somebody's backyard. We really get to see what somebody's made of. There's no big arena lights and heads out. It's like really what you see is what you get up close. And he is one of the most phenomenal musicians, guitarists, singers. And it's evident that that kind of talent is just really, really observed by everybody around the world and appreciated. And I mean, another obvious thing that they all have in common is you, you know, they have an eye for talent because they hired you. When you go into these recording sessions, do you bring a different mindset depending on who it's with? Or is it just always you bringing your style to the to the equation? Well, I kind of, I mean, every time I go in to record, you know, it's a fresh opportunity. I mean, I've always looked at it like you're always auditioning every time you go in there, you know, so, you know, have your strings, have a nice set of strings on there, have your instrument in good shape, battery, new batteries. And it's always kind of like the first chance. And like Quincy Jones used to say, play, play every, you know, gig like it's your last one, you know? And so that's sort of my mindset is just going there and do what's best for the project, the song. And again, it's been just a joy and a blessing to be called by some of these people to go in because, you know, obviously they got anybody's number on the planet. So when you get the call, it's very, it's very flattering, something I don't, I still to this day, don't take for granted. Specifically, how did you get the call for the Michael Jackson gig? You know, when I was in 84, I think the first time I toured with Kenny Loggins, the day I left to go on tour, the phone rang and it was Quincy Jones asking if I could play on, off the wall. And I just thought, oh man, you know, this is the unlucky timing. And so I couldn't play that record. But then when the next record came around, he called me again and I was able to play and that was, I think that was a bad album. So, you know, I'm glad he stuck with it. And everything I've heard about people who've worked with Michael is just the professionalism and the level of professionalism. Do you feel, did you feel that when you were working with him? Oh, absolutely. I mean, first of all, he, he steps out of the car and it looks like he just stepped out of a video, you know, red leather jacket on. And he's, you know, he's, he's, he looks the part, yeah, he's got the shades on, but, but nobody comes into the studio more repair, more prepared than, than Michael. He, he's, he knows everything that he wants to do before he gets there. And it's amazing to see. Did you feel equally prepared or did you improvise a lot in the studio? Well, we, we don't know what the, we don't know what the song is until we get in there and get on the floor and see the chart, you know, so that, that's when we first get here. And if there's a demo, they play that. And if not, we, we're the ones that kind of created what you hear right off the paper. In your mind, what constitutes a good bass track? Oh, okay. Well, I think first and foremost is something that serves whatever the song is doing. You know, so a lot of times I like to just play the simplest part that I can do that, that it becomes like foundation for what I'm hearing on top of me. So it's nice to hear the melody and, and what, whatever the chords are going to be and know where the spaces are, that there's not any lyrics that you'd be stepping on by playing something. So starting with, with the very simplest part and then trying to make it interesting enough that it's, that you want to hear it again. So, you know, it could be as easy as you're going, you know, but then when you hear where you have a little chance or slighted, so there starts to be a lot of different ways to make one part a little more interesting, dynamically and expressively. Well, thank you so much for all the music you put out in the world and continue to put out in the world. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Keep doing what you're doing. It's a pleasure to talk to you.