In Review - An Innocent Man by Billy Joel (with commentary from Mark Rivera)

Sam Bennett and Luke Garrison discuss Billy Joel's album "An Innocent Man." Luke shares that he has always known Billy Joel's biggest songs but was pleasantly surprised by this album. They talk about Billy Joel's musical history, his influences, and his successful albums. They also mention Billy Joel's catchy melodies, thoughtful lyrics, and blend of rock, pop, and classical influences. Mark Rivera, a sax player for Billy Joel, joins the conversation and talks about how he got involved with music and connected with Billy Joel. He shares his experiences playing live and recording in the studio. Mark also mentions some of his favorite artists to work with, including Ringo Starr. Hey, what's up everybody? This is Sam Bennett and I'm Luke Garrison, and this is OBUFM Thank you for checking out this week's episode today We're discussing an innocent man by Billy Joel one of my all-time favorite albums this week was obviously my pick I have loved Billy Joel for a long time the longest time no pun intended Yeah, you know just getting a little bit of insight Luke. You know what is your musical relationship been like with Billy Joel? I've always known Billy Joel since I was a kid like obviously especially his biggest songs like you know uptown girl We didn't start the fire list goes on, but this album specifically. I knew I want to say three probably four songs I knew three of them well, okay going into it So it was definitely like a nice surprise because I like the majority this album quite a bit Yeah, and he's never been one of my favorite artists But at the same time he is one of the catchiest songwriters of that era and obviously an insane piano player So I'm excited to dive more into him. Yeah, all right so getting into the artist history here Billy Joel is an American singer songwriter and pianist who was born on May 9th 1949 in the Bronx of New York City Joel's father was a classically trained pianist who encouraged his son to learn the instrument at a young age and by the time he was a Teenager that was already playing in bands and writing songs Yeah, Billy Joel began his professional career in the 1960s playing in various bands and releasing his first solo album Cold Spring Harbor in 1971 the album received mixed reviews But it contains some of Joel's most enduring songs including she's got away which Don Henley has a great cover of not recorded But it's a lot I would encourage people to go listen to that Joel's breakthrough came with his second album piano, man Which was released in 1973 the album's title track became a hit single and Joel soon became a major star He continued to release successful albums throughout the 1970s and 80s including Streetlife Serenade turnstiles the stranger 52nd Street glass houses the nylon curtain today's album an innocent man and the bridge Billy Joel's music is known for its catchy melodies thoughtful lyrics and blend of rock pop and classical influences He sold over 150 million records worldwide is one of the best-selling musicians of all time Throughout his solo career Billy Joel has produced 33 self-pinned top 40 hits in the United States Joel's had three number one hits on the Billboard Hot 100 chart in the US including it's still rock and roll to me Tell her about it, and we didn't start the fire He has also been recognized for his contributions to music with numerous awards including six Grammy Awards and induction to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1999 He continues to perform today with historic Madison Square Garden Residency and his legacy as a songwriter and musician remains strong today Joel's are currently performing dates across us with obu FM alum Stevie Nicks Okay, so getting into some album history an innocent man is the ninth studio album by Billy Joel released on August 8th 1983 the album was a departure from Joel's earlier works as he drew inspiration from the music of his youth Particularly the doo-wop and soul music of the 1950s and early 1960s Joel has stated that the album was a tribute to the music of his teenage years and the singers who influenced him such as The Drifters the Coasters and Ben E King the album is also heavily influenced by Joel's fan relationship with model and actress Christy Brinkley The album was a commercial and critical success reaching number four in the Billboard 200 chart and spotting four top ten hits on the Billboard Hot 100 chart including tell her about it uptown girl Innocent man and the longest time I also earned Joel a Grammy nomination for album of the year The album's sound and style were a departure from Joel's previous work Which had been more rock oriented instead an innocent man features a more polished upbeat sound with a focus on catchy melodies harmonies and intricate vocal arrangements The album was produced by Phil Ramone who had worked with Joel on several previous albums and featured a large cast of musicians including a horn section and backup vocalists an Innocent man was recorded at several different studios in New York City the basic tracks were recorded at Chelsea sound and A&R recording with additional recording taking place at the hit factory and Evergreen Studios the album was mixed at Sterling sound in New York City Overall an innocent man is considered to be one of Joel's most successful and enduring albums and remains a fan favorite to this day It's unique blend of rock pop and doo-wop influences along with Joel's skillful songwriting and storytelling Continuing to make it a classic of this era. All right. So now that we've done the artists and album history We want to go ahead and introduce our guest for this week. Mr Mark Rivera mark is the longtime sax player for Billy Joel as well as a plethora of other notable artists Having played on this week's album as well as continuing to play songs from this album live with Billy Joel to this day We thought it would be appropriate to get some first-hand insight Please enjoy this OBU FM exclusive interview and track by track review of an innocent man with Mark Rivera Hey, how are you? Very well yourself. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, sir. Who's who you who Sam? I am Sam and you are I'm Luke Yeah, thank you for joining us we appreciate you taking the time Where are you exactly? We're in Arkansas at Washtenaw Baptist University. Well, I So not that particular university, but I have played Arkansas. Yes, sir. Yes, sir Where are you? Are you in New York? Yeah about an hour north of Manhattan town Brewster Okay, I guess are you off from the stadium tour? Oh not off. We just did a show at SoFi. That's right Yeah, and that was pretty incredible. We played Friday. I spent time with our son. He lives in Venice Beach, California Got home Tuesday night at 10 o'clock and didn't get a luggage to about 10 to 1 Almost three hours waiting for luggage. That's not a good Yeah, I would imagine it's pretty hectic traveling like that on tour Traveling at this point if I could say it sucks It's not what it used to be used to be like, oh, we're gonna go fly to Los Angeles So but it's it is what it is. It's a necessary evil at this point. So right? Okay, so I'm gonna start off with an interview. So first just starting out. How did you first get involved with music? When I was a kid my uncle Vinny my godfather played saxophone in a kind of a wedding band So I was interested in music. My father had a guitar in the house of Spanish guitars I pick it up and play it. I always had you know, my ears were always good I trust my ears more than I ever trusted my eyes to tell you the truth and then 1964 February night 1964 was a day of reckoning the Beatles played on the Ed Sullivan show and that changed everybody's blends in in music in general, I think they said February 2nd, which is a Sunday I think that week prior last week in January into the first week of February They'd sold maybe five thousand guitars in the whole of the United States Following week. They sold like a hundred thousand instruments It was like an infection that caught the entire country and I was swept up in it So but that did when I saw the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show it was all over for me. Oh So who are some of your like biggest influences Jimmy Hendrix and Jeff Beck the Beatles? Traffic the Rascals the Rolling Stones. I mean, that's that's where I came from 67 I think was like the greatest year in rock-and-roll history in my opinion You have Jimmy Hendrix put out are you experienced and axis boulders loved the Beatles put out two minor records? sergeant pepper and Magical mystery tour the band cream put out fresh cream and the Israeli gears if you're familiar with any of those, of course Proko harem who I had the pleasure of working with Gary Brooker. They put out why to shade a pound 67 I mean if you if you have a moment if you're really interested in some rock-and-roll history check out 1967 and look at the list of albums that were released that year. It's mind-boggling the doors Janis Joplin It was a real an incredibly eclectic time because radio DJs weren't programmed by the program directors They actually played I mean you guys the DJs do it a DJ or just is it the podcast or it's just the podcast Okay, I mean the thing is that if you have young people doing radio stations now, they're allowed to play what they want I'm very good friends with a couple of guys one gentleman particular can dash out and he worked at PLJ back in the 70s and 80s, I believe and they were allowed to play whatever they whatever they wanted I mean the year that I'm talking about 67 68 69 Let's say you had acid rock starting out with you know Hendrix and cream and all these and they had the whole West Coast scene country Joe the fish and at the same time He had Joan Baez and Ritchie Havens. He had folk music yet Santana. So it was this incredibly eclectic time So, um, that's the thing that bugs me the most about radio at this point because you have to be on the radio list I have I had a new record out a while ago Ringo Starr played on it and I couldn't even get on the radio. I could they were it didn't fit a certain format I could only get it on certain Independent stations like on Sirius XM my friend Steve Benz and you know Steven from Springsteen's band little Steven and the cycle just so yeah So he has a radio station called little Steve's garage and he played it and a couple of people played it on like a Beatles Format, but that was it. It's a whole different time. Well, that's cool You said that though the Beatles are my probably my personal favorite band of all time And we just wanted to lead him to the next question, which is obviously over the years You've done tons of live shows, but also a bunch of recording work and we're gonna ask you prefer playing live shows or recording in the studio I prefer playing live because for the most part by time I get to play in the studio. I'm playing to a track and There's very little spontaneity because if I play something live I might play something the drummers hit to it starts playing off of there a bass player play something and I'll respond to that Whenever you're in a recording situation in my opinion Is the first take which is what happened with sledgehammer because you're reacting once you go into it and start to I guess think which is like in my opinion thinking is a Musician's worst enemy because you just overthink and instead of responding or reacting to the moment You're reacting to what maybe a producer might have said. Hey, that was great Could you play that high a three measures earlier to think of crap? And all of a sudden you're out of the moment the most important thing that we have in life is this moment you and I The three of us are talking right now. It's the response. That's the thing that makes music beautiful In fact, they just saw a quote by Sheila Eve and she said you got to keep funk funky and by keeping funky She means space between the notes. I love bass player. I play bass I love playing bass or drums But great drummers and bass players know that you can't fill up a whole canvas with sound you have to allow space for the the real intricacies Miles Davis said the same thing He said the face between the notes is the most important sound that you'll hear and it's just it's very interesting to hear a person Who's got that kind of depth say the same thing? So I prefer to play live and I also have more fun playing with guys kicking it around like that. Mm-hmm Cool. Well, how did you first get connected with the Billy Joel? I was in the band Well, the long story is I was at a band that we backed up John Lennon in 1975 and that band was called bumps And while I was in the band bumps as it was falling apart there was a group of guys who were doing demos for a band that was called cash at the time and David Brown Billy's guitarist Billy Joel's guitar player at the time was doing the demos and I met with the singer Norman Rashan and a bass player Mark Crider and a keyboard player from a band that I loved band rhinoceros from back in Also, I'm 67. I'm 68 rather and they would cutting demos I got involved play two solos on two songs and the next thing I know they're up for a possible record deal The record companies were Atlantic RCA and Arista at the time Our demos were done by Jack Douglas and I don't know jack did a double fantasy. He's done a hundred from Aerosmith famous producer that I was living at the record plant and he's producing Aerosmith toys in the attic at the time if I remember right So it turns out Atlantic offered us $200,000 as did RCA, but Clive Davis said I'll give you $250,000 like no an extra 50 grand. It's a quarter of a million dollars the big deal So I said, yeah, we want to do it, but he said there's one caveat He said you have to use this other producer. We didn't want he didn't want us to use Jack Douglas Oh, well, what do you want? He says we want you to use mutt Lane and we said who what the hell is a mutt? So at the time mud had only done a big city boy and a couple of other European records He hadn't done a CDC yet or any of the parade of bands that he produced and it turns out So he ended up producing the band and it became a band called tycoon story But this is how I connected so I'm in tycoon and the band lasted maybe a year We had a like a number 28 hit on the radio So then I'm back in the club playing with my friends, you know kicking it around barely making phone bills and stuff like that But loving it still going out playing so I come home from a gig at a club called tracks and I woke up the sixth floor woke up myself and my tenor and I get a phone call. Lo and behold, it's mutt Lane and He says hello Marcus. How are you? So fine, but what's up? I'm down at electric lady studios and I'm wondering if you could pop down like well sure when you want to do this He goes right now at that point. It's midnight. Good morning. I'm shagging. I just finished doing a The whole night because well, I'm recording for in this new album and I'm like boom break the phone down down It's cut cab went down there and that's why I met Nick Jones Lou Graham from foreigners same situation I was talking about before the first time I heard the track They were still getting a headphone mix and I played the bed at the end of it. Did he have put a bit on urgent? Right First thing I played four hours later that having drinking vodka that playing foosballs and But called me to play so what do you hear this and he plays it and Nick was great sounds like Moscow It's the coolest and much said that was the first thing he played when he walked into the room So that tells you that your initial reaction is usually the best So that's how I got at the farm and through Farnham I still stayed in touch with David Brown the guitar play for Billy and Billy and Richie can out of a parting ways Billy's satisfied so I get a call from David said hey man, we always do these gigs So we played at a place out in Long Island called my father's place and Doug Stegmeyer was in the audience Billy's at the time his bass player musical director. So he heard me play and he said hey Would you be interested in auditioning for Billy Joel long story short Boom, I auditioned for Billy. I played three songs all of the good die young I forget the second song and just the way you are at the end of the solo just the way you are Billy stops the Band and he walks up to me gives me a kiss I said as long as you want to be in my band, you have position and I thought I screwed up Well, he stopped the band. I had no idea That's 40 years ago Yeah, that really perfectly leads into the next question which is what has it been like playing with Billy Joel as long as you have Been it's amazing. It's an amazing ride. I've been through One two three. I've been through probably Seven iterations. That's the right word. You're in college, right iterations the right word I have to take a library card after that one, but I've been through seven iterations of this band seven or eight possibly and From the beginning it was amazing because from Florida I was really a side man I was like, you know, hi and gun myself and Bobby May which is fine because technically I'm still a side man with Billy but I immediately felt as if I was in a family part of them and From that first day the rehearsals, you know Liberty and Doug were this incredible Foundation for music. In fact, that's why the early record sounded like they did There's no doubt and every different revamping of the band There's always been a new product or a new a new element, but the band right now It's an eight-piece band myself. Tommy Burns crystal type arrow David Rosenthal and he says Sean who I forgetting Carl Fisher Carl Fisher is a monster trumpet player Carl played he was in Ferguson's band for years and Michael Del Giudice was a phenom. He's a tremendous down He has a band called Big Shot, but this band right now is in and Chuck Berge the drummer who replaced again I don't like to use that word replaced Liberty, but he's a drummer who's now in the band and Chuck Berge replaced Phil Collins and in a band called Not FCC Brandex brandex. Thank you very much. Thank you So you do know you Yeah, Chuck Chuck Chuck is amazing And but again Liberty is and will forever be Liberty and those records sound like they did because of that You know, we're gonna get to the innocent man And that was like the first recording that I did with Billy which is it's since it's insane to watch Billy's process So I'm sure you're gonna have questions for that But I think that answers the question of how I got into Billy's band You've mentioned Warner as well as Peter Gabriel who have been your favorite artist to work with other than Billy Joel Ringo Ringo Starr Undoubtedly Ringo. In fact, I'll say this to Billy. I love playing with Ringo more than anything Not Ringo himself only that part of it But the bands that we put together you remember Grand Funk Railroad Mm-hmm Mark Farner from Grand Funk Railroad Billy Preston playing piano the fifth Beatle Felix Cavalier from the Rascals John Entwistle from the who Who else was in that band Randy Bachman from Bachman Turner overdrive and Zack Starkey the current drummer from the who now? That was the first band that was in second band had Peter Franklin Jack Bruce from cream Simon Kirk from free and bad company and then the next band if I remember right had She's Shirley. He was in that next band John wait from the babies Paul Carrick, I mean, it's an incredible group of people ever so I've Greg Lake from Emerson Lake and Palmer I met probably 30 musicians over the course of time one of my favorite Colin Hay from men at work Yeah, and it's that band every time I get out there and currently the band has Steve Lucas or the guitarist Who is a phenom if we get a chance? I just watched it today the sunset sound or the you have to see this because yeah I won't talk about it on this because he's vulgar but it's priceless. It's it's truly priceless I was watching it today because I love Luke so much Anyway, look up Steve Lucas there or if I find it off It's he got banned from giving interviews at Berkeley because I want that the other day. Yes, sir If you get to watch some of the other ones he's just incredible, I mean he's been through so much he's such do you play Yes, sir. We're in a band. I'm a drummer and he's a guitar player. There you go. So you must you must love Luke, right? I'm a huge total fan. That's one of his favorite guitarist. I know I see no doubt I mean, did you watch that whole interview not just the thing about Berkeley? No I just watched that one clip if you get a chance watch the whole thing because he talks so lovingly about Jeff Picard that Jeff Would be in the room just Jeff's presence Changed the vibe of a band a vibe of a session. That's one of the most important things What you bring into a session is a vibe you get some of the greatest players in the world But if they're not together, they're not I always I got this thing about music and sports Do you like sports you guys either like because right now I'm missing March Madness for you guys, so But I'm kidding. It's basically you have a basketball team or hockey team or anything. You have to work together, right football Okay, the guy's quarterback throws the ball you got Patrick Mahone But you know, there's like 300 pounds of beef in front of them keeping them protected Drummers playing the bass players playing something that's to me That is the glue of a band and we get to hang I can figure out my be saying so Get the hang of guitar or saxophone and all these other elements over but the foundation is the bass and drums and It's just a credit if you get a chance watch that because first of all He's he's the funniest person you'll ever listen to on it in an interview and it's very enlightening the stuff that he's done Incredible sessions that he's done. So would you be the predecessor for a war in hand technically? Yes, absolutely, but but Luke and Warren had played together in in different bands together I mean Warren's wants a tremendous talent Warren's Texan boy if I remember right and He's a wonderful sax player great keyboard player great singer, but he's an amazing Harmonica player. Have you ever heard of play harp? I don't think so, dude, dude Yeah Yeah, but yeah Warren took my place again We don't I don't say take places but because he's a musician in his own right Tremendous musician, but I had conflict because of Billy which is a nice topic to have right? Yeah, cool So I'm gonna ask you a question. You're credited on one of my all-time favorite albums, which is oh, yeah by Hall and Oates I don't care. Yeah, like so do you have any memories from those sessions sessions were wild? I mean, I'm not wild like crazy, but a T-bone woke me. He rest in peace one of my dearest friends the bass player He and I worked together for years and I got called because Charlie the sheds is an amazing sax player Okay when I saw the bigger than both of us to our Charlie was playing sax and because Tom Scott was on the record if I Remember right and Charlie's playing sax and I'm like, I want to be that guy I want that gig because that hold us for one of my favorite bands of all time blue-eyed soul I love R&B. So um, but the sessions were very straight ahead. They knew what they wanted I only got to play about three songs. I wanted to sing backgrounds I said tell you the truth, but again, but getting back to like by time I get into overdubs the record was already done and all the vocals were done. But um of the three I think I played on three songs missed opportunity rocket to God and Can't remember the third song but it's like one of those six eight shuffles was it so long maybe no, no, no I think that money picket played on that one. You weren't I'm talking all night. Were you know, that's that's Betty I could see his face in front of me Daniel Lewinsky. Okay, and then you imagine it. I'm in pieces I'm a piece is exactly boy. You're good That's one of my favorite songs of all time. Yes, but that shuffle The shuffle and the drummer in that band was Tony Beard. Mm-hmm. Tony Beard play with a band go West Yeah, and Tony Beard is the sick guitar player as well Okay, because the band go West they had the camera the guitar play thing and he copped all this Adrian Baloo sounding stuff He was just just an incredible player. So you both from Arkansas. Is it? Well, are you local? Yes, sir Our school is located in Arkadelphia, Arkansas, but I'm from Little Rock and he's from I'm from all that I'm basically right. We're both from the Little Rock area. So yeah, and where we kind of came down in the same school Yeah, you're gonna play together though. Uh-huh. That's right. I remember playing Little Rock pretty much everybody played Little Rock major tour stuff Do you have a personal favorite song album or project that you've worked on? But without a doubt I've walked in there and it was that I played on that one and The big sessions at Chelsea was on Billy's record on Innocent men we have 14 people in the band playing live. So that I could say that's When you get to play live, there's nothing like 14 feet. There were six horns Myself David Sanborn Michael Brecker Ronnie Cooper for saxophone John Patterson I can't remember the second trumpet player Richard T and Leon Pender which Richard T on Grand Piano and Liam Pender was playing organ yet Liberty Doug David Brown Russell Jabbers And I think Cornell Dupree might have been playing Cornell Dupree or I think was Cornell and Billy singing live in a vocal booth That was tremendous and I'm not a very good reader. So I had to really shed this stuff. What beats world everybody's talking I'm like You know, yeah, I'm really not a strong when I wasn't was in high school I've read because that's what we went to the high school performing arts I read well, but like I said now I trust these more than I trust these so How does working with Peter Gabriel in the studio compared to working with Billy Joel in terms of like a process Well, I was working for Peter Gabriel versus working with Billy There's a fine distinction. I mean when we work with Billy There's a there's an interaction the interaction with Peter was he just pressed the button said play the first thing to come to your head And I played that up but and the track was Tony Levin and the new cachet Mm-hmm. It doesn't get much better than that. It was a very basic trick There were no lyric Tony manu the guitar player and a keyboard London Larry fast But it was just crazy and I'll tell you the secret if you listen to sledgehammer and then go right to very superstitious I just came up with And then And Wayne Jackson the trumpet player from the Memphis Horns said the next week with that school and we took it from there We ended up doing this 90% unison Little bits and pieces it that again are superstition. Yeah, our band played that song actually live. It's kind of funny What superstition? Yeah, it's a great track. How could you not love it? Yeah, you know any Stevie one. I mean when I do my corporate gigs I do I wish They have a horn player we do not we are a four-piece. It's me on drums We have a lead guitarist and singer a bass player and then he's rhythm. Cool. Cool. And what's the name of the band? That have it that have it. I like So tell us about your new book and what motivated you to write it Um, I'm working with a woman who does speakers engagements and I met it two years ago and that's three years never think of it and You know, I was gonna go out and do some Q&A's and it's funny But people would rather hear you talk about the session Then what I do is I do let's say 75 minute Q&A and in the 75 minutes I'll come out to a track and I'll play maybe New York State of mind Or I'll play something else and then I have tracks a sledgehammer. I've tracked the polo stuff I have tracks of every different band that I played with and I'll talk for a while and they'll ask me some questions and Invariably somebody will ask me a question about a studio situation. So well, you know in the studio I play the set that pop up and I'll have sledgehammer already queued up and the first thing I played But the reason the book came about was the woman who was the agent for speakers She said, you know if you had a book you could do a lot more to be more of a hook And I think it now you write books just as you're about to fall offstage and your career is over She said no. No, if you had it, it'd be one more element to talk. So I said, I'll think about it So I met this guy Mike Ponce and if it turns out we've flown back from Mexico City on March 6th I think it was no 26. We flew back to seven and lo and behold a week later the whole industry This is 2020 the whole industry shut down and if you tell a musician you can't play live For even six weeks, let alone six months let alone almost two years. Yeah got to do something So I ended up speaking with this guy every week for a couple of hours and it became therapeutic. It was cathartic I mean I'd sit in the room upstairs to that this room the face got three windows and I'd just be out there saying okay Now it's it's kind of barren. It's like it's outside now that over the tree They're all bare, but I was able to go back and he what it does is it goes back and forth From contemporary to when I was a kid back to contemporary to when I was first playing in band back to contemporary To meeting Billy it jumps around which I think is at first. I was afraid that it wasn't chronological I find the people it's more refreshing to people to not say Oh, then I did and then I and then I and then I just be this kind of like Sometimes the ramps don't go up that easily But you know talks about everything from my childhood my quirks They still blink my eyes a lot and have all these weird habits But my mother thought I needed to be tested and my father said just relax. It's gonna pass But uh, yeah, the reason for that was it might sound silly, but it was something to do Like how I spent my covert vacation, yeah, it's a good way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think awkward Getting into this album in innocent man before we get into the track listing, you know Do you have anything you want to say about the album as a whole? It's a tremendous piece of work on Billy's part it's a being a chameleon of rock and roll it covers everything from the four seasons to Benny King to pop it just did it all the only thing he didn't go into it like his Hendrix or Traffic kind of vein which he's really that's that's one of the true passions traffic in particular on the rashfuls But it was an incredibly eclectic record and Phil Ramone actually said at one point. I'll tell you one story Don't get back to it. He came in with the song and so it goes which ended up on Stormfront possibly, I'm not sure now, but Phil said when he heard the song and every time And Phil said what a piece of crap why don't you go home and write a real song He really gave brief about it and Billy was really hurt because Billy loves the song and it's a beautiful song So Billy goes home and writes leave it in a moment alone and maybe uptown girl, but Phil knew it was a great song But he also knew it didn't belong on that record So that there's a true genius of a person He also knows how to push a guy because if you tell the say if you said that to a different artist He'd be shattered. You'd lose him completely, but he knew his dynamic with Billy was cool So that is a good story and we did look at it in a storm front the album, but that's all it is So far there you go. You guys are good I Okay, so getting into easy money I mean just an explosive introduction to the album full energy right off the bat heavy horns and lots of backing vocals I think this is Billy Joel like really channeling his influences, which I know is a big motivation behind this record What would you say about this song? The song is tremendous. It's that moment that I was mentioning before we had 14 people It was a live track. Nobody was doing that. I mean look back in the day That's how records were made and Phil Ramone would know that because he recorded Sinatra You know his background is that kind of let's get everybody in here. Let's make it right And it's also arcs back to back in the days of Motown or stacks when there was just one microphone overhead if you've ever seen some of those photographs Stevie Wonder or Otis Redding or any of these great R&B singers, they'd be like eight guys around. What's his name? I can't believe I can't remember his name but producer for Motown It's basically they'd be all these guys around a piano and one microphone and if there was ever some horns the trumpets a little out So the trumpet played during the break you just turn away from the microphone. You just have to learn how to play together So that song and that recording of that song really brought back to like I said There was six horns two keyboards three guitars bass drums and building an ISO booth and that's the vocal That's not like some over them. That's the vocal and think about that in itself. How many guys today could say free auto-tune free? Pro tools it was like we had 24 tracks but we nailed it and that just tells you the confidence that Billy had to have had in Phil and the Confidence Phil hadn't Billy picked to pull it off and the confidence bill had in all the musicians that he hired Yeah, but Phil's greatest attributes is like just the way you are over a beautiful song. Hmm. Let me think. How about a saxophone? How about Phil Woods? And to me, that's still like the perfect pop saxophone solo There's not a not a wasted note not a wasted breath in that entire solo. Perfect So but that's that song and the energy in that song He's doing this is Otis Redding and it's like Wilson Pickett and you don't have to talk about You have to talk all night. He's like going way deep. Yeah, it was just insane just insane to do Yeah, you can definitely tell that just by that leading the album. It's a huge departure from his previous work well from especially considering that that followed our curtain right would technically or Don't say technically but but by virtue or by the standards of sales was a flop I mean he sold 11 million records plus on the stranger and Glass houses and this and all of a sudden he releases not like curtain and nobody cared or you know Maybe it was too risky to talk about the Vietnam War And whatever it was, but to me, it's one of my favorite Billy Joel records is an a la carte So and it was a total departure It was we were in it from it was like from the jump we were in it cool Yeah I love the bridge on this song it kind of switches up completely from the rest of it because the rest of it is kind of just driving right into it and then when it goes up to that I I Would I would say that the bridge is more reminiscent of his previous work. Would you agree with that? Yes, but the bridge is it the Hendrix cop? Okay, you know what song is by Hendrix to set that? Just ask the access he knows everything I It's exactly access called with love the release on the access is exactly easy money interesting Nobody would think of that. I got to show you something. Oh This is something no saxophone player has anywhere You see that? Beatles and Hendrix, that's where I come from Anyway, how about that little tidbit? No, I never would have noticed that but now I can't I'm here. That's awesome. Yeah, you'll hear it every time Willing to lay down and die because I am an innocent Man All right, so then we'll go on to the next check I guess was the title check and it's a man it's a real friend Oh, I would say it's probably his best vocal performance on the album. Mm-hmm Alright, why this most movie maybe I would I wouldn't disagree with you as far as the the power the range from some people say They will never be me. Yeah Grandiose that one is like a When the Sun beats down you put the tar up on the roof. Was that a Betty King? Oh When the Sun beats down the birds that are up on the roof all that that's what that is Okay, and who put the triangle on that? Wow Basically not to say I was but I it's the drive in the song it's it's In There's a bunch of any King if you get a minute Ben E King and he did all those great songs and it was always a triangle Yeah, and that's like the club. That's your basis, but that's a beautiful song. You're absolutely right Luke, right? Yeah, I'm like that vocal is it's very special I would say that like I mean I think the vocals are nearly perfect on the chorus and I agree with what you were saying about just the display of range You know, there are parts where he goes very very high and very very low as well Right, it's the range and it's also the dynamics. Don't people say they will never be Another problem. It's that the easy breath But they only remember to and if somebody tell them before He's down like he's like a baritone man. Yeah Yeah power comes out of nowhere, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah Y'all have been playing that live, correct? Yes, it's great I guess I played that crystal plays a triangle now, but I'm playing the strings on that live. Okay, cool Yeah, that's I mean I grew up hearing or it's like tell her about it in uptown girl on the radio But this was the first song off of this album that made me gravitate towards the album as a whole Just the lyrics are very poetic. I think that the music really complements the lyrics Very well, especially just like the simplicity of the verses and then how things really pick up on the pre-chorus as well As of course, so the actual bridge itself, you know, you only hurt yourself out of spite It's like he's really now he's coming out sentence. Yeah, I guess you'd rather be a lot of tonight Yeah Decision he's coming from this power to pulling it back and it's it's so Billy, you know Tony Bennett calls him the walking American songbook and it's only great friends. They've been Cool so getting into the longest time also a single we noticed that this is this is a particular video that we noticed Familiar Yes, it was really funny Is that back in the day my hair was black and they had to put silver in it to make people think it's like older Like that's what we're gonna look like in 20 or 30 or 40 years because that's now 40 years ago, right? 83 we recorded that it was just scary to think of but actually longest time we recorded those vocals He had myself Russell Ball boat for the longest time we did that just the guys in the room and then Billy decided, you know what? There's certain nuances that he wanted. So he sang all the parts and when we do it live we have currently this band is Backed up like dirty shirts with with singers We have so many great singers in this band that when we do longest time live It's just like whoa In fact, if I'm allowed to say boys to men did at one time when we were in Philly and I could say we did it better Yeah, I would say like this song reminds me a lot of Frankie Lyman and the teenagers As well as I know he mentioned the drifters as a huge influence a hundred percent. These are these tremendous vocal bands These are do-up bands. They're on the corner of the Bronx in Brooklyn. Yeah I think it's also cool how it uses the do-up aspect which certainly now and I guess at the time as well it was certainly a fading musical genre and He brought it back in full swing and also put like a modern take on it absolutely in terms of production So no, you're 100% right them and the other thing is unfortunately There are not a lot of bands these days that have that kind of vocal blend or harmony I mean, it's a tremendous loss just last month of David Crosby. There was a horrible horrible I'm looking though I don't think anybody expected him to live as long as he did with all that he did to his body But the point being you'll never hear well, first of all, you'll never hear the Beatles harmonies again You'll never hear but Crosby stills and Nash and Crosby stills Nash and young deja vu that second record is yeah If you get a chance and just trip back and listen to carry on any one of those great songs It's just beautiful. I'll tell you I'll tell you what really blew my mind on the first record Guinevere First of all, it's a David Crosby playing this weird tuning because I actually learned how to play it and it's strange It's very strange and it's Crosby and Graham Nash if you get a chance to see the two of them sing it together It's just a beautiful piece of music Guinevere had green eyes like yours Lady like you and Graham's got that ghostly high voice and David's got an incredible voice But I was never that aware of how brilliant like Travis Ticker he is or was I'm trying to learn some of their songs I'll tell you what is another song if you get a chance going around in circles But there's a song called treetop flyer by Stephen Stills You get a chance to fight otherwise, I'll find the link of the real one to listen to it's about Vietnam veterans who used to fly missions into just over the tops of trees to Rescue missions and things like that because you know what days there's not a whole lot of call for people Who could just fly over treetops in other words the pilots got to fly real mission But he talks about that and it's just a beautiful song it's deep I mean typical Stephen Stills tuning and stuff, but go on. I'm sorry. There's one more thing I would like to say about this song I definitely hear all these influences these vocal bands that we're talking about, but I hear you've mentioned the Beatles I hear the Beatles on this track specifically I hear Paul and it reminds me of specifically I hear there and everywhere kind of the way with Billy's delivery and then with so many vocal layers and harmonies in the background I know that was an influence or not, but that's just what I noticed Oh Beatles was one of the biggest influences on Billy's life if you listen to the Nylon Curtain go back to that That's like an homage to John. It's like it's like we are not worthy. He's a Mass Beatle fan Massive yeah, you're right there that that's right tenor that you hear a tenor voice. Yeah Oh All right, so getting into this night, but first first we'll say sax solo, thank you Great sacks work on that I first heard this song when I listened to the entire album for the first time and I just think I mean it's a classic Example of why people should still take the time to listen to full albums Because I mean it might not be one that you know They might play on the radio today at least not in favor of tell her about it or uptown girl That's right I mean It's one of my favorites it just embodies like a really classy sense of romance and youthful affection with lyrics that you know certainly Resonates to everyone I think it's also a great track to follow the longest time as it sort of builds on the do-up concept But in a larger way Yeah, they chew up right in there, but the other side of the song is that you get to have a co-writer named Beto I think I've heard him discuss this before. Yeah. Yeah, it's just Which is what the sax solo is on it's like, you know, it's a variation of a theme That's all it is, you know, but really he takes from you talk about so far this record We've talked about the big R&B of either either Otis Redding and then to Betty King and then to the drifter that now We're at the Beethoven Yeah, he takes the piece from here the piece from there and we're not even halfway through the record Yeah, well correct me if I'm wrong, but this song changes keys from like the verse the course is doesn't it? Absolutely, and he's a master at that In fact, there's a song we'll get to but I think it's one of the most brilliant bridges ever and it's it's so sneaky Yeah, like it goes The one called 151 that's where you change this right there and it modulates to let's say five or five or two It's like the two-chord, right? Yeah Yeah I almost didn't even notice but they're not like I listen to a few times like preparing for this episode and I was like I think it's changing keys right now. Yeah, he modulated there and then at the very end It's not The saxophone This side is mine. It's a third time. Yeah. No. Yes. It was great It was a lot of fun and I didn't play much tenor at that point of mainly an out the player But it still said, you know, it's got to get that guts. You got it Played more played the tenor on that one I thought it was a great song and he hired a doo-wop band to do the harmonies the black band from New Jersey I'm not 100% sure. But um, yeah, that's that this night That's in fact I wish we would do that live because we have the singers to pull it off and it's a it's a moment I don't I'll tell the other song which we do is until the night, but that's a whole other discussion Okay, I think that until the night talk about how much of a chameleon is it's the righteous brothers Oh So next we're at tell her about it also another single this was a number one song Yeah, I really love just like the full-blown energy Especially like when you look at the track listing how the songs preceding it were slower and tempo and in theme as well But you know, this kind of brings back a little bit of energy Yeah I think it's a perfect effort of him channeling that Motown feel And kind of going for like a temptations kind of thing or maybe other talks You know the lyrics touch on themes of love and communication and I think the lyrics resonate for anyone of any age group What would you say? I love the lyrics of this song the sentiment of this song in general might be one of my favorite like Topics on the records. Yeah, it's just kind of like a wholesome I guess like tell your your significant other like what you're feeling whatever heavy sacks throughout. What would you say about recording this one? That's the same. We were in the same recording session as easy money. That was the same day Those two songs were cut within two hours. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Wow, that's what I'm saying And that's impressive songs like that The only thing that weren't on that song on tell her about it for the background that I sang with Eric Troyer and Rory Dodd because after the listen boy, you don't want see There's Billy singing in the booth and then the horns But it's like this big band flash it was it's just a lot of it's almost an animation So got that that said and then the it Came over the vocal arrangers name, but it was incredibly clever how it was everything weaves together I thought that's one of my favorite and he doesn't like to do it because it says, you know I'm this short fat guy this same buddy. Yeah, he hates the tone of his voice on that I'm like, it's a number one song that he just well I think he's only had three number ones before I have three from our research. Okay, so tell her about it We didn't start the fire and was not just the way you are Still rock and roll. I'm still rock and roll. Right? So those are three. Yeah, we do still rock and roll We do uptown girl, but he won't do tell her about how we do about the fire. He won't do tell her about it Interesting. Yeah, I mean I have yet to see y'all alive because you know making the trek to New York has been difficult But now y'all are doing more shows around the country So I'm hoping to catch one of those maybe we had a little free chat before This interview and we're kind of discussing our favorite songs from the record. This is honestly five my favorite Billy Joel song So I would hope that maybe you could campaign for this one to go in all the time But he flags it down every time You never know you just never know what would have to happen if we have to just start this song live and he'll be there With his microphone in his hand for those you can't do it. Yeah can't go back now. Okay, cool So uptown girl, I mean arguably the biggest hit of the album even though it wasn't the number one I think it's one that a lot of people know especially in our generation. It became the most like iconic. Yeah. Yeah I think if I remember I Reached number two and the only song that kept it out was maybe a little let me do John record or something Yeah, it might have been physical or one of those like, you know, kind of like movie movie songs But that should have been a number one song Yeah, I mean obviously an iconic music video featuring his thing girlfriend and eventual wife Christy Right, right from what we researched. This is kind of about his relationship with her. Absolutely He was uh, he's just like it. He's like a blue-collar guy and she came from she's a supermodel But dad was the TV producer. She came from that was a white collar family, you know Shaking the jewelry the whole thing But he was he was just the guy's guy saying can't afford to buy your pearls when my ship comes in You'll understand a guy event. It's all of that and again beautiful modulation. Yeah But that's the thing about these songs. You don't realize no Well, that's a choice and when she's walking she knows That's a modulation The which again you're talking about these I dent these are all I dance If it was an orchestra the violins and violas be strumming get welling away, that's what that was It was just a great a technique Um, we if I remember I Billy had an idea about this with a vocal gonna go But there was a vocal arranger came up with these lines and myself Eric Troyer and Rory Dodge saying all those Whoa And all the vocals It's three guys singing unison each part so if there's a four-part harmony, there's twelve voices Those two guys they so much work with Jim Simon and Todd Rundgren Then those two are the best background vocalists around or did I said I never worked with it's impressive to me This is a pretty complicated song musically, but it's so catchy at the same time Yeah, there's so many non musicians who know every word to this song Well, this it's the same thing that talk about Beatles songs You think we did there they're not very difficult or complex but they're incredibly complex in their simplicity if that makes them because they did so much in such a short time and You know like a two and a half minute song if it's that long even it's just incredible. It's just incredible But they did that song is like it just pulls it all together So getting into careless talk, you know, I think that it's one of those hidden gems on the album kind of similar to this night You know, it's a great horn section and I really love what Liberty does rhythmically on this song The lyrics obviously touch on themes of gossip and the spread of rumors. What would you say about this? I would I would say it's probably one of the more sparse arrangements, but I feel really enjoyed this song Is it do you play on this one? I don't remember and I don't think so Just never it didn't really Oh It kind of went in between it wasn't reggae wasn't it didn't go gospel enough for my taste But again, you like it. Okay. It's a catchy song He's old and the lyric also talking about we you know gossip gets around and what do they say? Loose lips think ships. You know, it's just yeah, you watch what you say So I don't I don't have much recollection of that. So I don't even know if I was on that session Okay, I think it is one of the more simple tracks it's not a bad listen at all though Yeah, it's a good album track So moving on to Christy Lee we noted that there's lots of facts and it's also Somewhat about the girl being interested in the sax player compared to your right hand, right? What would you say about that trope Christy pay a lot of attention? She was always like very oh, you're great She gave me a lot of a lot of props and maybe who knows it. I never got any sense that he was jealous But it was like a guy saying yeah, Joe. Yeah, but if you go on to the rest of the record, you know Joe became a wino. Mm-hmm But it's that kind of tongue-in-cheek stuff. It's typical Billy I mean, we didn't start the fire as a song that came out of nothing because he didn't have any lyrics So he just come through and it's like a PD Britannica if I remember right? I think you know from the year he was born till the current that's like 86 I think it was 85 but pretty crazy if you think about it. Yeah, it's kind of a bluesier one I kind of hear some you know, you were saying you hear some little Richard. I kind of hear something like Chuck Berry, too Yeah, it's a combination of both of them but it can be the piano plays like that's the little Richard kind of thing where you got that What's that what's that groove starts it's infectious you're not gonna once it was living at that Yeah, it's like that like second line kind of thing going on It's that way it's a great piece of music because it's just it's balanced from from the start to the finish Oh Okay, so moving on to one of our personal favorites leave a tender moment alone that is my absolute Favorite song. Yeah, what I'll tell you about that song is aside from the modulation, which I'll get to yeah That was one of the songs that after Phil said to Billy What was the song you just mentioned before and so it goes really place? And so it goes for Philip just that's a piece of crap He was saying it doesn't belong on the record One of the songs that Billy came in with was leave it in a moment alone and that song from start to finish Is a single piano track he had they had the packing blankets over the piano his microphone here. I think Liberty was in A Little bit of nothing and Billy's piano and vocal on that song or start to finish one take One take okay, and the other thing about that song even though And then the bridge no, it's not only me Same melody completely different key. I would never I wouldn't even think about it if you think about Judging juxtapose that say even though But it's not only me breaking down when the temperature is high But I'm in another curious mood. She is suddenly quiet back to the original key. That's brilliant That's my favorite bridge of all the songs. He ever wrote. That's my favorite bridge because it's so deceptively Simple because the melody does not change One two, three, four five Five five six one two, three three Right, it's almost like Even though I've been loving but it's not only me Breaking down and then you get that real serious dark change But you don't even know you're in a new key until you get that step back. That's my favorite song on the record I think I'd say it's my favorite. I love this song the harmonica throughout It's great. The whole solo the harmonica solo, I guess if you say that and then with the off of the back Oh, it's just building. Come on. I keep going. It's just great track again, Rory and Eric got to say Yeah, yeah We will lose that back and back and forth and it was it worked That's that always reminded me of like being in Belgium or something like that walking in Paris There's this sense of savoir-faire and all those beautiful and and that's another element that Billy's writing He just ends up here and here and here. So I know it's one of my dad's personal favorites It's amazing. It's this that's one of my that that is my favorite song on that out Yeah All right, we have keeping the faith a fun track to end the album with you know great work from Liberty Interesting set of lyrics very reflective on his youth a little autobiographical. I guess I also found it a little bit like motivational I don't know. That was something that he was going for. What would you say? I love the guitar on this one I think The guitar and the sax first of all, the song is pick pick up the cleanup woman to clean up all that is Go check out clean up woman. Okay, that's that song and the guitar work though, but they could think That's David Brown and we all Get the bail, you know, then you know, that's guitar and saxophone triple track Okay, I'll throw in saxophone kind of like the sound of a climax blues band the sax Yeah, but that was that also was the arranger who arranged the horn section for a teller about it and easy money Those are scripted though. I mean it we didn't read him but That You know, it's just a cool to cool section and uh, and it is it is definitely meant to be Inspirational. Yeah talking about when you were kids when I was, you know, you had a tight jeans collars in the set play stickball I mean I grew up in Brooklyn. We played stickball. We did all that stuff and we all wanted to be the band We wanted to be cool. Mm-hmm. That was the thing. We wanted to be cool and He bares his soul that way, you know, hey and now at this point, let's just keep the faith and let's keep it moving That's pretty much what he was trying to say. Oh, so yeah that concludes the album This was one of my favorites and we're honored to have you we want to remind listeners to go purchase a copy of Sideman in pursuit of the next gig by yours truly Mark Rivera. And yeah, thank you for joining us Yeah, we really much. I mean Sam Luke the pleasure guys. I want to check into What is it again bad habit? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. God bless you gentlemen and you both then all of you keep the faith It's a great music is healing Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for having that. Peace Alright, so now it's time for the guessing game kind of going back through all these tracks from an innocent man. I'll go first I really don't know. This is a very musically niche album Mm-hmm if that makes sense just because it's really drawing on his influence of doo-wop and Motown kind of songs I know that that's not really what you listen to a lot of I don't really know I based on what you've told me I'm gonna guess I Know it's not uptown girl. I think it's either The title track and innocent man or the longest time based on what you've told me we haven't discussed this prior a lot Well, I love both those songs actually But I I do like both those out of those two longest time I think I like more but the one that which you probably wouldn't be expecting this I would say my favorite is leave a tender moment alone. I was thinking about that. I think that's my favorite. That's a great song It's my dad's personal favorite off this album. Maybe his favorite Billy Joel song. Anyway, but I Really love that song too. It's not my favorite off the record, but it's certainly I mean Certainly top five. I really just love the lyrics. Mm-hmm It's very self-reflective and I think all you know, I think a lot of listeners can relate to that especially men This is a song I was like kind of familiar with but never really paid attention to yeah So I actually seem to I was like, okay This is pretty and listen this album multiple times like I was always excited to get to this track Yeah, it is it's one that offers a lot of variety like musically I think this album had a lot of potential to be really stagnant in terms of just like Sounding like all the songs sounding the same. Yeah, but I really appreciated that he drew from a lot of his influences That were very similar, but he did a lot of different things with it and like all the songs are pretty different I agree. Yeah, it's a very like specific sound throughout the album. Yeah, like it's cohesive in that way, but None of them sound the same like structurally and just like, you know, there's fast on this flow song So I definitely agree what you're saying. Yeah now, I honestly Don't have any idea what your favorite is, but I'm gonna guess Keeping the faith. No, no, not even close. Oh dang. I'll give you I'll give you a second guess Okay, I'll just say tell her about it. That's right. Yeah. Okay Yeah, that was one that like I had always heard on the radio growing up like I like that So, you know listening to you know 80s on 8 or whatever in the car with my mom on the way to school like and it's funny cuz Back then I didn't even realize like who the artists were that were singing all these songs like listening to it on the radio and I knew a lot of like Billy Joel's like More classic kind of songs like moving out and it's still rock and roll to me And yeah and stuff like that that classic Billy Joel sound New York state of mind for example But I knew this song and I was very pleasantly surprised to find out later once I actually, you know started looking at music From an analytical standpoint that it was a Billy Joel. Yeah And I think it's just a perfect song for this album. They don't play a lot from this album Interesting. I wish they would play tell her about it. Well, yeah Some of them would be kind of tricky like I don't know like the longest time is like almost all vocals Yeah Yeah if I had had more time with this album then I don't know like in a few weeks like I might have a different favorite Track cuz I do really like tell her about it Like I said, I really enjoy longest time. But like I said leave a tender moment is my favorite this moment Yeah, I'm very happy that you said that I'm I don't know exactly what I was expecting Like I said, we didn't discuss this album prior to recording this episode a whole lot because it's been just a hectic week But I mean, I'm pretty happy and almost proud that you said that Yeah, tell her about it. I don't know. I really love like just Motown music You know a lot of people like a lot of our influences Will hear them say that their biggest influence was like the Beatles or like they wanted to do music when they first saw the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show and I feel that like if we were growing up in the 60s and we were trying to have a band and stuff like that I feel like the Beatles would be like definitely your big influence Yeah, definitely and I think I would be a fan of the Beatles But I think I would be more prone to liking the Motown sound That's more in tune with my influences. I know like Daryl Hall and John Oates are huge for me Yeah, they say the same thing how they love and respect the Beatles, but they're more inclined to being influenced by like Motown I know like Phil Collins is Hugely influenced by them as well. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually now and if I think about your music taste Yeah, and then pinpointing back to that cuz yeah, I am definitely more of a I mean I love the whole Beatles era and you could argue some of the early stuff is Motown ish Yeah, but yeah That was psychedelic section of their career to spawn so many bands and yeah I can inspire so many that I love and I know you still like that music too But yeah, it's kind of cool that there's these two different. It's a different dynamic for sure. Yeah, they work well together I really just love soul Yeah, I think that that's a really important factor in music because if it's not authentic then what's the point so great point? Yeah, that's cool All right. So getting into three of the week I'm going to start with throwaway by Mick Jagger off of his primitive cool album from 1987 Then I'm going to go with save a prayer by Duran Duran off of Rio from 1982 And then rock and roll by Led Zeppelin off of Led Zeppelin for from 1971 nice nice That's one of my favorite albums right there that last one you mentioned Yeah So for my three of the week first one on a shout out is if I ever get around to living by John Mayer It's off his born and raised album 2012 Pretty underrated album if you are John Mayer fan have checked out You should listen to it have a cigar by Pink Floyd is my second pick off wish you were here from 1975 And then my third pick is learning how to love by colony house from when I was younger They're 2014 album and me and Sam are actually seeing them tonight now when y'all hear this, but the day of recording this We'll see them tonight. Yeah, st. Patrick's Day. Happy st. Patty's Day to everyone or I guess a late we are Yeah, y'all can't see us. We are both wearing green. It's true. Yeah Okay, well we want to say a big thanks to Mark Rivera for joining us on this episode You know that was a huge get for us and yeah, we really appreciate that appreciate him taking the time To join us and yeah, we hope you enjoy this episode of OB UFM and stay tuned for future episodes Luke's got the next pick so stay tuned to see what he picked a tune after spring break. Yep. Yep We're gonna yeah, we're obviously going to take a week off. We're actually leaving for spring break right after this So yeah, we'll catch you in a week in two weeks Yeah, we'll be happy to get our next episode out once we get back to school And I think we've got some pretty good leads on some big guests coming up. So stay tuned. All right. Bye guys my quest on entertainment production