GER 150 Podcast - Frauism - Ep 7 - Women during the Holocaust

During Episode 7 of Frowism, the focus was on women in Eastern Europe during World War II, particularly those placed in concentration camps. The discussion touched on the gendered experience within the camps, the expectations placed on women in Nazi Germany, and the ways in which women found strength and community within the camps. The women formed family units, shared recipes, engaged in sabotage, and bonded over their shared experiences. The episode also explored why masculine narratives have been favored over female narratives in post-World War II history, and emphasized the importance of acknowledging and sharing the unique experiences of women during this time. The episode concluded with a discussion of a statue in Ravensbrück that symbolizes the unity and support among the women in the camp. Hello and welcome to Episode 7 of Frowism. Today we will be discussing women in Eastern Europe during World War II, the Holocaust, and the gendered experience within concentration camps. Unlike the rest of the episodes so far, we will not be discussing a specific woman, but rather women who were placed within concentration camps that people labeled as rabbits. We will discuss their narratives and their significance to the history of World War II. A large part of this discussion today is talking about women's experience within these concentration camps. Women in Nazi Germany were already understricted, aligning with Hitler's expectation of German women. As discussed in Episode 6, women were told how to dress and portrayed themselves in public. Aryan women were also pushed heavily to reproduce. This is counterproductive to the progress made during the Weimar Republic with the new society concept arising with a new woman. With concentration camps, the Nazi regime expected women to be weak and break easily, however, there was obviously resistance. Without de-feminizing and dehumanizing these women would break thin. They broke these women by shaving their heads, deciding never to be men. However, these women found strength in each other and their communities. So the community-based maternal instincts like building family units and the idea of having a surrogate family created community among the women within the concentration camps. They created recipes of different types of food as many women were from different backgrounds or different countries and spoke different languages. So they would have recipes for breakfast, lunch, and dinner because it gave the routine of going through everyday motions of life. They also had sabotage that took place within the concentration camps. So, for example, it would be through prostitution or factories and even other types of work that they would do within the camp. So why do women lean towards these survival instincts over others and where do those instincts come from? Well, I think it has a lot to do with how gender was at the time. So women were placed in those roles of being mothers and being the family builders. And I think just because of that and because of how they lived, they automatically defaulted to something they were comfortable with and something that they knew. I would agree with that because whenever we had a shift from the new woman into the Nazi regime, it went very much from girl boss mode back to traditional values. We discussed this in the last episode that women had newer roles that went back to previous times. So we were being more maternal, more stay-at-home, I guess you would put it that way, taking care of children, taking care of their husbands, etc. So I agree that they had these instincts to take care of family. Also, with the sabotage that they did, prostitution was only something that they could do. They spread syphilis to all the men, all the Nazi men, through prostitution or whatever. And that's something only women could accomplish. Even though most prostitutes are in one concentration camp, they're sleeping with up to 15 men a day, which spreads super fast. And they probably see the same women, too. And then also within the factory work, we'll mainly talk about the concentration camp of Ravensbrück, where the women labeled there were called rabbits. I guess I could also apply to other women in other concentration camps, but mainly focusing on these particular women. There was a factory right next to it, and so they would work within that factory, kind of slow down production, sabotage it, etc., whatever they could do. Why were they called rabbits again? I don't know, just because they were being experimented on. They were being experimented on, the women? The women who were called rabbits were being experimented on. Okay, yeah. Experimented on, like someone was a rabbit, sort of? Yeah. Okay. I thought about it because rabbits are kind of also in a way pictured as a more feminine animal, maybe? And also they're vast and don't live very long, so I think, I don't know. That wouldn't make sense, but that's what I first thought. So I guess to be experimented on makes sense, but it just feels weird to me to call them a rabbit based on because they were experimented on. Yeah. Well, they were experimented on, but I also think that rabbits can also be an underground community. These women, they bonded together over their lived experiences, so their mothers cooked meals, and how they did every meal of the day. They talked about every meal of the day, to have some form of filling of home, or something that they know and are comfortable with. So I think that rabbit also makes sense. That makes sense. I kind of want to link that to also women within the concentration camp would, as they survived together, they learned together, so many would share experiences from where they came from because in this concentration camp, there were women from Germany, Poland, what are some other places, Belarus, Russia, Denmark, a lot of Eastern European countries, and so they would learn other women's languages, their experiences, their culture, history. I think that's quite interesting as well. Yeah, and as for the men in concentration camps, other concentration camps, I don't think that they'd do anything like that. I agree. And I think that's something that stands out in the history of the Holocaust. I think it might be more that their first instinct is to survive, and possibly work, because that's kind of like what they were used to in society. The men? Yes, the men, as we shifted back to traditional ideology. And they had no concept of the camp brother, where these women had the concept of camp sister. So do you think, why is masculine narratives favored over the female narratives post-World War II? Because I have personally only seen it from the male point of view. I've read books in high school for classes, and they were from a male point of view. I did not learn to the extent of this, of the woman's point of view. I think that's kind of like the quote that history is written by the winners. I think that through history, we've seen that the male perspective and the male view is valued over the female view. I think that also related into this narrative of whose story is more important or more valued. I think men were a symbol of strength, and people thought it was better to tell their stories at the time. The media thought it was better to tell men's stories at the time, to show how much people went through. Even though females and males went through the same experiences, the public would probably see it. Men as being tougher than going through more, and that the women didn't have to go through as much. Which is why they told more about men than women. Well, women are also portrayed as the victims. I'm thinking about whenever I have heard about the female narrative so far. It's often hopeless, sad, depressing, or unsavorable. But these communities that they created were the opposite of that. This sisterhood that they created within these communities. If we're talking about the experience of men, those are the ones that were being portrayed more. If it's from a Western point of view, that makes sense. Because I think if it's from America, then it's very much like they value a man's opinion more than they do a woman's opinion. I think that's maybe why. Even then, I think at the time and post-World War II, that went for every country that I can think of. I'm sure that there are other ones that didn't think that way, don't think that way. But I'm not familiar enough with all the cultures to know that. But from what I know, I'd say that all the countries, not just America, were like that. And that's how the history of the Holocaust was written. To sound like it's from a male's point of view. We can even talk about how women expected different treatment even going into concentration camps. Because they were viewed by society in the Nazi regime as weaker. Maybe the media also thought their experience was weaker. And these women did live longer within the camps most of the time. So maybe that's why. Also, not to mention, history at this point was probably being written by a man as well. So does the gender experience matter? I would say yes, immediately. I think that identities matter. So we can't strip away the label of man or woman because there is such a heavy emphasis on it. In the communities that we live in. And I think the gendered experience of the women in concentration camps. And how you did say that they did live longer. Yeah, they lived longer than men on average in concentration camps. That's because of them banding together in communities like that and having some sort of support system. So without the gendered experience, or gender in general, I don't think that would have happened. I agree. And they're living proof that this did happen. And it is important for them to share their story as well. Yeah. Going back to how women were perceived as the victims, within the town where the camp of Ravensbrück took place, there is a statue called Die Tragende, which means the ones who carry. And I think it depicts the women very well of them holding up other women. And that shows the unity that the women had together. Was it a woman or was it a child? No, it was a woman. It was a woman carrying another child. Okay. I didn't see it very well. I like that statue. I think it really rounds out everything that we've discussed so far, I think. I think so too. On that note, should we end? I think so. Alright, well that is episode 7 of Frauism, Women During the Holocaust. Cheers!