GER 150 Podcast - Frauism - Ep 6 - Leni Riefenstahl: Feminist Icon or Fascist filmmaker?

Leni Reifenstahl was a German actress and film director known for her directing of Olympia, a film showcasing the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. She was affiliated with the Nazi party and made propaganda films for them. After World War II, she faced resistance and protest due to her involvement in the Nazi party. She later visited Kenya and continued script writing and film production, but her project was never completed. There is controversy around her affiliation with the Nazi party and whether she can be considered a feminist. Some argue that her success as a woman during that time is a symbol of women's achievement, but others believe she did not do anything to further women's causes. Her films showed a division between men and women athletes, but she also showcased both genders in the audience. Overall, while she climbed the ranks as a woman, she did not advocate for women or make any significant change. It is debated whether she was brainwashed or if she aligned with Hitler's views wil Welcome back to Frywism, where today on episode 6 we will be covering Leni Reifenstahl, feminist icon or fascist filmmaker. Leni Reifenstahl was a German actress and film director born in Berlin, Germany. Reifenstahl was well known for her directing of Olympia and showcasing the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. With the money that she was given to experiment with the filming, she created new contemporary techniques that are still used today, including following the runners on the track and dropping the camera at the driver's door. She was very affiliated with the Nazi party and Hitler himself and made propaganda films for them. She was a filmmaker that upheld the ideals of Germany during the time. Reifenstahl had strong relations with Hitler and powerful people and was highly appraised by upper German society. Because of this, she made the Aryan race look better than other races through propaganda films. Later, after World War II, Reifenstahl was arrested and deemed a Nazi follower. However, she was not found guilty for war crimes. Reifenstahl claimed to not have known of what the Nazi regime was doing during her affiliation with them. She struggled to make films post-World War II and met a lot of resistance and protest due to her involvement in the Nazi party. After the failure of her film career, she visited Kenya where she continued script writing and film production on Nuba tribes. The project was never completed, however, she was granted citizenship for her services to the country. She lived a long life, dying at the age of 101. So there's this controversy specifically around her, just simply because of her affiliation with the Hitler party and the things that she did and the things she did after the war and how she represented herself. So we can just talk a little bit about her affiliation with the Nazi party and what that looks like and what you guys think about it as well. Well, the big question is if she was a feminist or not. That's kind of what we're going to get down to. I'm going to talk about her affiliation first with the party. Yeah. She was a tool for Hitler's regime almost. She was making these propaganda that were very Nazi-centered, very Aryan. Anti-Semitic. Yeah. She was able to connect with him via letter and then I think it took off from there. She basically just talked to him almost on a daily basis. They were seen together going to his private room in, I don't know what the hotel was called. Her residence, she was able to get with the National Socialist Party very easily. She rose to the ranks. I'd even apply it to the Hoax Theory because she was on the margin and then was able to get to the center, but she never really able to, what's the word, continue to stay. Because the men always ruled her versus her ruling them. Whenever we talk about bell hoax, bell hoax idea is to expand the center to the margin. I would say that by her moving into the center, I do not believe that she was a feminist. Oh, I agree. She was very opportunist and very self-motivated and what she was doing was only for her own self-benefit. I think it's kind of silly to even look at her and be like, yeah, she was a feminist. Yeah, I think the argument for her being a feminist is that she was a woman and still got as big as she did. That was a big accomplishment for women at the time. It's kind of a symbol for women's achievement. Yeah, but I mean, did she really do anything for the women at the time? She really could. She could just be like, oh, I support women. Yeah, I mean, women were being jailed and women were told that they had to be married, they needed to be producing children. If they couldn't produce children, they were not even worthy of love or marriage. They could be divorced. I have a list of things that the role of women changed in their almost requirements in a sense. So a few things that I have. They were told to give up their paid jobs for men. So that was just transitioned from women not holding jobs to holding jobs. And then we go back to square one. Yeah, so all that progress that we've been talking about over the last few feminists, the new woman and things like that, that's all just retrograde. So inter-race and inter-religious marriages were banned. That's pretty straightforward with this whole thing about his ideals. I'm not sure she cared about that at all because she was an Aryan woman, if you want to say Aryan. But she did fit that category. Hitler thought she was the perfect Aryan woman. She was ideal, German femininity, beauty, standards. I think that also kind of helped her with her mingling to get to the center in a way. Independent women were ruthlessly attacked and driven out of the public domain. That seems kind of weird. Would you say that she would be independent? I don't know. I feel like she was kind of leachy. Her films were not as successful until after. She started making propaganda. It was because there were no longer these Jewish critics judging her films. She re-released the ones that weren't successful. She was popular as an actress in a way too, but I think that really took off during the regime. I definitely think she bleached that power from the Nazi party. It's also weird that you say independent because she wasn't married until she was 40. That didn't last long. It only lasted two years. That's just really weird that she wasn't a target, but other women were. The fact that she didn't have children, which was expected of women at the time. Women were supposed to have six, seven, eight children. I think that it was because she was close to Hitler. I think that she had a personal relationship with Hitler. Like a little free pass. Other notes that I have are abortion was criminalized. That was kind of obvious. Women were given courses on motherhood through this whole transition. Go mothers! I guess just supporting women in terms of motherhood. That's the only thing. It's kind of like their machine. You give birth. It was at the same time this push for modesty. They weren't allowed to wear pants anymore. It's like, we don't wear those dresses anymore. You can kind of see those traces in contemporary times. I think that with these new waves of women's rights and women's reproductive rights and things like that, having that autonomy over your body is definitely something that the government shouldn't be able to do recently. Especially with Roe v. Wade. During her time, Riefenstahl did nothing to further any of those causes. Are we going to talk about Riefenstahl anymore? I know, but I'm connecting it back. She's still the topic of the episode. I know. Also, I remember the women would get medals for having so many children. Motherhood Olympics. Yeah, it was like gold. Seven children. Silver, six. Bronze, five. Dang, that's a lot of kids to take care of. Men can also be infertile. Yeah, women are infertile. Red flag. Divorce. But men being infertile wasn't really that conversation. Men always get off the hook. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if we want to talk about her films that she made or the propaganda. Personally, I think that the Olympia film is actually kind of interesting. It actually looks decent. She has really good directorship. Is that the right word? I think that she's a really good director. But I also don't think that film would have been what it is without the influence of the coffee machine. I think it showed equally men and women when the sports were shown. It didn't really show any bias towards the white people versus black athletes. That's a really bad way to put it. I think that she did show a division between women and men athletes. She still did use the gender roles for the time. Very much in the beginning. But in the actual sport itself, the audience was very engaged both with the men and the women. I noticed that a lot of the European countries that maybe aligned with them at the time saluted to Hitler. I thought that was interesting. They also did not show much of America or Great Britain walk in. They only showed the big ones too. They said there were 51 nations there, but we only saw major ones. And they went haywire when they saw Ulster pull up and Deutschland pull up too. I don't know. I thought that was interesting. I also noticed in the film that the American athletes had an emblem on their uniform that we still see today. I thought that was also interesting. I think overall her work was super... It is great that as a woman during this time she was able to climb these ranks, but I don't think that she can stand alone as a feminist. If we are looking at what she actually did for being a woman... She didn't do anything. She was constantly covering her own ass. It is one thing to get to the position she was. That is one thing. But it is another to actually advocate for women and try to make change. She was never willing... I think we have talked about this. How she didn't advocate for other women. And how that was for her own safety. But also if you are not willing to give up power anyways, then you are not advocating for anyone else. I think to define a feminist it has to come with some form of advocacy. Or giving up power of some sort. She definitely wasn't doing that. There is also the... What is the word to use? Brainwashed by... Do you think that she was brainwashed by Hitler? Or do you think that she deliberately decided that I am going to do this? I know that is an argument that some people make. That she was super influenced and brainwashed. But I don't think it was that way at all. I think she fully agreed with his views at the time. She might have said differently after World War II. Just to save herself from the public, from the press. But I definitely think that she aligned with Hitler's views. Just because of the things she said. I know that in interviews since then she has also been very contradictory of herself. Where she was like I didn't know anything about it. However, she was like it wasn't even happening at the time. Whatever the facts show otherwise. Like history shows otherwise. That she knew what was happening. She was aware. It was very obvious what was happening. Because it was happening within the country as well. So I think that a part of her actually aligned with Hitler's views. Otherwise. Other filmmakers at the time believed the country. She saw an opportunity and took it. I don't know. I would also agree that she was not brainwashed. But it was noted that she took a copy of his portrait and his manifesto with her to Greenland. That makes me think that maybe she was. But I don't think so. She was just a little weird. I guess people would have a copy of. Did people in that time period have a copy of his? She was infatuated and fascinated. It seems like she was truly devoted to working with him. I would agree that maybe that was just part of her. I like him. Do you think they had an affair? I don't know. A little bit. If they were alone in hotels. All the time. I would start to think that. But then there's the theory that Hitler was a homosexual. I mean. BFFs are lovers. He was pretty ugly too. He looked really cute. But with a little bit of power anybody can be attracted. That's very true. She can get up right in that. Obviously she was an opportunist. Why wouldn't she take that opportunity as well? Yeah, I agree. I think that covers it all. It's a good place to end. It's a great place to end. That was episode 6 covering Leni Riefenstahl. Tschüss!