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Fiery and Max get Relentless with DegeNik.
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Fiery and Max get Relentless with DegeNik.
Listen to DeFi Raiders hosts MCLB by MCLB-fBOMB MP3 song. DeFi Raiders hosts MCLB song from MCLB-fBOMB is available on Audio.com. The duration of song is 01:22:29. This high-quality MP3 track has 192 kbps bitrate and was uploaded on 17 Mar 2023. Stream and download DeFi Raiders hosts MCLB by MCLB-fBOMB for free on Audio.com – your ultimate destination for MP3 music.
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So I didn't, I didn't appreciate the fact that the first token on phantom turned out to be a rat. And so I just bought added LP rinse and repeat and kept on doing that. And that's how the takeover took place. So I've been active as an RPC node provider as well to the foundation, which has helped me further strengthen our position in the ecosystem. During this journey, I ran into Max as well. This would be somewhere around the time when I was speaking at the phantom developer conference, I was speaking on decentralization of nodes and infrastructure. So it was a fun conversation, not related to DeFi, but that's how I ended up running into Max. And it was a good run in, so to speak. And we realized that this is something where we can work together for a longer period of time. And then there was the whole in the Credit Room and Revenant Labs chapter as well. Maybe we can get along that in the second part of your questions. Max, would you like to chime in, sir? Uh, brother, anytime you want me to chime in. Um, yeah, I guess I started developing on blockchain, I guess, somewhere, I would say around 2012 with Bitcoin. And it really wasn't much, it was really impressive. It was QR codes and transfers and stuff like that. Took a nice long hiatus after Bitcoin poker back in the day. Came back, gosh, I want to say like 2020, started writing a new blockchain. 2021 ran into FireE and yeah, I mean, we've probably got enough projects between the two of us that I need his hands, my hands, his toes, your toes, and possibly DeFi raiders. Left hand. I mean, it's been a lot. But yeah, I mean, it's been a wild ride. And you know, it's fun. I mean, development has its ups and downs. I think the biggest thing is, know your back end, know your back end, and definitely know your back end. That's why we love Max the best. He is the most security oriented guy. And that's, that's something which is vital in something which can't be compromised with in this space. This is a very dynamic space when we develop projects, launch things. Most of them are in beta stage. And when we say beta, we mean beta in crypto, not beta in the real world. So it's actually worse than beta. So many such projects have actually been compromising on the security as well to some aspect. And that's something which we can't stand for, as beta can be features or functionality, but can't be on the security end. And that's why this was the perfect fit. And it's really funny, because we fed off each other for, I want to say at least 18 plus months now, at least feels like 18 plus months. I mean, I remember listening to Fiery's speech. And I think it was at the time, somebody reminded me I wasn't Gen X, because they moved the goalposts. So I wasn't millennial. And I remember, like listening to it, I was like, I'm not gonna listen to something about a millennium club. Like, I'm not a millennial. And then I heard Fiery speak. And I was like, Oh, my God, why am I not in this club? And then it's just been a match. I think the two of us think almost identically, but in the exact opposite thing. So it's like he's sine, I'm cosine. And then we got others that would be tangent, arctangent, you know, cosh. And we can go through all the mathematical stuff, but I don't want to make your audience sleep yet. That's for later tonight. I love it. Would you guys like to tell us about anybody else on the team? So I'm sorry, we have so much to talk about. We should probably wait for you to ask some of the questions, right? Take it in any direction you want. I was just asking, you know, if you want to talk about anybody else on the team, because I know there are a few more, both that we see and that we don't see, I expect. And then yeah, we should talk about how you guys got into the business of fixing broken projects, really. So yeah, we actually do have a very larger team, but most of them are working on separate projects. So Max is the one who's like the lead dev. He's like the CTO. He has the keys to the kingdom. He controls, he basically manages and coordinates all of the other people working on the different projects. So basically we have one of our oldest developers who has been working for BOM. He was the one who built BOM for me one single-handedly from front-end deployment, the graph, everything. So low-key, a shout out to him. He's a great front-end guy. He's been helping us out really well, really excellent work, a great learner, and he works well with Max. So that's a unique skill because I have trouble understanding half the things Max says at times. I have to ask him. Sunfire, our volunteer, knows that feeling very well. Max is cryptic, so to speak. So we have to learn a lot when we work with him and we really look forward to that. So low-key, our front-end guy, apart from that, we have a team of four who's working on our borrowing platform. So when the whole Revenant Labs fiasco was going on, there were a lot of discrepancies and issues and the original team did not want to continue. We were left at a very precarious situation where the future of the whole project was unknown and the treasury payout would have been pennies on the dollar, actually lower than pennies, cents on the dollar invested. So no one was looking forward to that. So at that point, I realized this may be something where me and Max can help contribute and maybe work with it. So we offered our help and the community was quite glad that we offered, which was evident by the government support which took place. Then we took over and a snapshot was taken for the old credit token. Now I faced a precarious situation again where after a new token launch, we had to rebrand from the old identity. And I was happy to help work for the project, to help create value, but the whole marketing, the whole new branding and everything was too much work, which wouldn't really yield much of results. So I realized it may be easier to just rebrand to our own brand, which we had been working with without the token. And we renamed the credit token to MCLB, kept the exact same tokenomics and took it over from there. Once that took over, we further realized that we can strengthen ties between our earlier community and the new one by allowing the MCLB DAO treasury to take over FBOM by building a brand new wrapper. So it was a combination of a lot of ideas, which led to FBOM being officially taken over by MCLB, Max making our multi-chain wrapper, we entering the multi-chain governance wars, hopping on to more solidly folks than I can count at this point, and it just led to an internal flyby. So what many of the newer folks miss in this case is that this flyby is not just created for BOM, BOM is just the tool which helped create the flyby. The larger picture in play is once we have our borrowing platform, we can use part of the governance we have collected to boost the initial LP for our own stable on some of the chains we launch on. So this would allow us to host our stable liquidity without any emissions from MCLB or FBOM. Once we help develop and boost the borrowing platform where it is revenue from it can further sustain the liquidity, we can keep on expanding. So this allows us to share the governance between FBOM and our own stable, so the MCLB DAO can become a much more profitable DAO so to speak. In the longer run, the revenue sharing mechanism will also include FBOM in more ways than one. I don't really want to share the details we have sort of heading towards, but trust me, people will be very pleasantly surprised when they hear how the revenue sharing model will be working. So that would involve both the tokens and that's how the entire flyby will stay connected. So neither the FBOM holders will feel left out, nor the MCLB DAO holders will feel that we are not prioritizing the governance platform. So it will become a nice balance and these two projects can work in tandem. So this is just one finite game in a larger infinite game we are playing. So I see MCLB DAO as an infinite game. It's not an end goal objective, it's a process. It's something which I wish to continue for a lifetime and beyond my lifetime. It's a vision which is a longer term vision which I see everyone here is probably thinking in a shorter term because we need goals to get somewhere. But it's not just about achieving those goals. It's about the process of creating new goals and achieving them repeatedly. We don't want to just reach, for example, a hundred million dollars and then say, okay, now we all get to pay out and we can go home. It's not a process where we are here to just grow up to a certain level. We want to keep developing and these two are just two projects that we are doing and we are building a lot more under the hood. But all of it will be centered towards these two tokens, towards building an ecosystem around these two tokens and helping the community deal with how the DeFi and crypto space keeps on adopting and changing. Yeah, boy, super exciting. So much going on. So let's start with, it's going to be a keyed out fork, right? So does this mean it will be like a market XYZ that will be the lending platform basis for the stablecoin? No, definitely. It would be quite different from that in a way that we are more of a TGNC.fork. So we'll be prioritizing the borrowing against LPs. So what we'll do is we'll have auto-compounding vaults. So for example, let's take the Phantom USDC vault on Equalizer. So our vault will keep auto-compounding the rewards and the user can borrow against that vault position. So then the user can further have the choice to use the rewards to repay the loan or actually just let it auto-compound and they can repay at their choice. So the interest rate would be much lower, of course, than the borrowing vault. And they would actually be earning more on their principal than the interest they'll be paying on the amount borrowed. So that's the kind of general goal we are heading towards. And we'll be adding more LPs, more chains, and yes. That reminds me of that brief moment where I could borrow against Toom, Phantom, and T-Share Phantom, I think, and mint or borrow my for the couple of weeks where Toom was in the $20,000 or T-Share was in the $20,000. So excellent. So would you... Yeah, the problem in that case was in case of T-Share and the Toom assets, they were going borrowing against single assets as well and they were going the same assets to be borrowed. So the user could just borrow T-Share and market dump it just to protect their positions. So that may result in a further negative loop. In our case, the users will only be able to borrow our own staple, not any other asset. Yeah, very cool. So would you like to talk for a few minutes about all the whole massive ecosystem of partners that you've been developing and continue to develop? Sure, of course. I'd love to. So where do you want to start? I'm sorry? Sure. You mentioned ecosystem partners, right? So like any specific you had in mind where you want to start? Oh, you might just start with a quick list of the solidly forks. But I know that I see Layer 2 DAO is listening. So I know we have some others there that aren't just that. We've been partnering with a lot of protocols that we find interesting because we realize that the crypto space is supremely large and no single entity or even a group of entities can cover it all. So we realized we need partners who are working in different spaces so we can cover more ground together. So Layer 2 DAO is an amazing entity in that space. They have helped us expand our reach in the Layer 2 ecosystem. Initially, we had been primarily focusing only on Phantom. But once we started expanding, we realized Arbitrum and Optimism were some of the best options. And we had Velodrome as one of the first solidly forks where we took a major position in. So Layer 2 DAO was inevitable in our journey to L2. And speaking of forks, Velodrome was the first and largest position we had. But the one which had launched on Phantom did not fare very well. We did enjoy some nice APRs and BOM peak on pools for a very long time, but that did not last. So after that, the first fork which actually worked, which actually brought the product to life, the vision was Velodrome. We were lucky enough to have Veve from the early days on solid on Phantom. And I was sincere to further invest my own funds and gain quite a large position in the Velo Wars. So that was how our first position strengthened, and that was the first case where BOM was taken seriously. As we already had a market-bought position, we managed to get a BOM farm up. And once that was up and the MCLB DAO took over, it was easier for me to get MCLB DAO and BOM as well, and I got them a market position as well. Together, we voted for the BOM pools, and FBOM became the first major pool on Velodrome. So that's how that started. We then followed through on TINA when it was launching. When Equalizer launched on Phantom, we again went in with it, and yes, the cycle just continued. Then Arbitrum came, and we realized we had been hearing things about XCAL, but they had been having some issues. So we were lucky enough to wait a little while, and we started a farm when XCAL had started taking care of those issues. So now we had Velo, we had TINA, we had Equalizer, we had XCAL. On Arbitrum, after which we had the luck and opportunity to get involved in Solid Lizard at an early stage. As FBOM and MCLB were the first partner, and Solid Lizard hadn't succeeded to the extent it has at this point, we were lucky enough to get a larger VNFT because it was underpriced back then, and all the newer partners are getting a smaller VNFT compared to us. So that actually helped solidify FBOM's position on Arbitrum to a very large level. This effect was further compounded as the same opportunity was presented to us on Sterling Finance, and we again have a decently large position there, so we are confident that FBOM will be a major player there as well. We have Vara or Equilibur launching on Tava, we have Satin launching on Polygon, Ramsys launching on Arbitrum, Flow which just launched on Kanto, Flare, DeFi, and Glacier DeFi coming on Average. So these are the confirmed folks where FBOM will be making an appearance. I hope everybody caught that, there will be a quiz later. Yes, and I will ensure that everybody answers it correctly. It is FBOM, and it's all the same address except for on Avalanche because the nuns fairy got me. I think that's my only nick on FBOM is I didn't get that address the same. But you know, it happens. I mean, it happens to the best devs. Basically, it was an RBC timeout, so I had to redeploy one contract size, so it happens. But for partnership on the dev side, I'll tell you that under the hood, Millennium Club has definitely worked with a few partners hand-in-hand to upgrade their protocols prior to launch, some that are upgrading while they're in prod. It's quite a wild ride to not just develop the token, but actually take a look under the hood, know a lot of stuff. We were talking about earlier people to mention, and I will say the Equalizer team on Phantom. That was a solid team, and nothing but props with them. The Velo team, nothing but props with them. The Lizard team, I'm not going to lie, I like their UI. It's ultra light, it's fast, but that's dev talking, dev stuff. At the end of the day, it's all about all those partnerships, but I will admit that having one with Firebird is an amazing partnership to have, too, because those guys definitely come in, give us some information, we pass information to them. So it's a really large world out there, and it seems like it's a really small world because it's always the same 12 devs. Yeah, I love it. And speaking of devs, would you talk to us for a few minutes about why you selected Layer 0 and maybe just about issues with bridging in general? Okay, the reason why I picked Layer 0 is because, for one, the user bridges it. It's not reliant on multi-chain to burn your tokens and then mint your tokens on another chain. Literally, you can send a command to the contract itself, it burns it on that contract, and it shows up on the other contract. Now, yeah, I get it, bridging anything to Ethereum or Chain ID 1, it's going to be expensive and it's going to take a little bit more time because it's 12 second blocks, but the reason why I did that was user. The user has control of their entire token balance. It's not dependent on somebody else burning their stuff and then shipping it to another chain. I like their Relayer. I really like their Relayer. I've used it on Testnet for multiple things. The thing, my first Rodeo with Layer 0, I guess my first Rodeo with Layer 0 would have been with the Daemon DAO with Tiny Daemons, and we had that on six chains. So doing omni-chain stuff with them is not bad. Now, they do have some limitations because they're not on every single EVM chain, so who knows? We may actually be designing a bridge in the background too. Nifty, there's some alpha, and they are, as I understand it, the most decentralized of all the available bridging technologies right now. Is that correct? Well, okay. The messaging itself is still semi-centralized, but it's decentralized because you don't have to use their oracles. You don't have to use their routers. You can design your own and then bridge between the chains. So with that being said, I'm looking at those aspects and getting stuff that we just put on Kava and Kanto a two-way street instead of a one-way street. I don't know if you can check my address, but my dev address, CCCD, you'll notice that I just burned 200,000 Phantom Bomb. Well, that's because I decided to one-way street my tokens to Kava and Kanto, so that kind of gives me skin in the game to get my tokens back to Phantom or Avalanche or anything like that. But yeah, that is juicy alpha for everybody. That means the odds of pools on Vara and Flow coming soon are fairly high. Well, yeah, and they just launched. Their block explorers for Cosmos are a little bit, how do we put this? You're kind of used to block scans, so that would be like Ether scan, Snow Trace, FTM scan, stuff like that, right? The Cosmos default block explorers are sort of what you would consider Stone Age technology. So we're out there with Advocuses trying to verify contracts. It's kind of funny because usually I can command line these things, and I was able to command line two of the four contracts, but I wasn't able to command line the other two, so I got to wait for the chain to sync so the API works, and then I can verify the other half of it. So I mean, there is a little bit of pain when deploying the Cosmos, but you get used to it. Once you get used to it, it is what it is. But to make a small story shorter, it is a contract that you can see. I got it on Sourceify.eth, so you can actually see this contract. The funny thing is that Sourceify doesn't support Tava, but it supports Canto. So it's like, now you can see this predicament of, how do I show you the code? So what I did was I actually made the FBOM repo public, so you can actually see it on Millennium Club's repo. Oh, Nifty. Yeah, boy, right. Talk about complexities deploying to new chains. What are your feelings about the Cosmos ecosystem in general? It seems like it's getting a lot of attention right now. But do you think it will compete favorably with Ethereum Layer 2s, or is that something you're comfortable commenting on? Actually, because I'm Gramps, when it comes down to being a millennial, because there's only people that can be 35, 40 days older than me and be in a millennial, I can literally say this as Gramps. Bitcoin was a great blockchain, and it still is a great blockchain. The problems that it solved, solve them. When you look at Ethereum with the DAG chains that you see nowadays, Ethereum, and I will always say Ethereum Classic is Ethereum, because quote-unquote, code is law. That's why I like proxy upgradables. If you make an oops, you can actually fix it, and that's what EIP-1822 is all about. And then EIP-1967 is how to name your oops contract, basically. But with that being said, Ethereum Classic being proof-of-work, yeah, this is good. I like it. The proof-of-stake of Ethereum, I think they've changed things to go more towards finance-esque style chain. These modular chains, they're interesting at that. But when it comes down to modular chains, do they solve the problems that Ethereum has run into? And that would be DAG compression, because the more bloated your chain gets, the harder it is to verify all the transactions all the way back to block zero. And that's the key. And you can't make it super white, like Bitcoin. Bitcoin was a very super white until they switched to four megabyte blocks. I can tell you that for a fact, because I just synced an RPC node again in Bitcoin. And literally the first half took me about maybe an hour to download, and then the last half took a day. But you got the excess on those blocks. And I'm not talking about just ordinals. You have four megabyte blocks versus one megabyte blocks. You look at phantom 0.9 seconds. You can only imagine how fast that DAG is expanding per block. The rates of expansion is going to be the downfall on a couple of chains. I can see DAG compression coming in, and Ethereum Classic did a really good job of that. Cosmos, there's not that DAG compression yet. They're still too new. It's like having a brand new car. You've only driven it 12 times. It's been sitting in the garage, and you only take it out to, say, ConsenSys in Austin or Miami Web3 Week. And you're just using it to show off. It's not battle-tested and heavy and hard like, say, Ethereum Classic, Ethereum. I've seen something interesting with Avalanche with subnets. That's going to be a new technology that needs to get explored alongside Cosmos. But I don't think the future of blockchain has been written yet. And that's because most of the EVMs have premix. You look at Ethereum until even recently. There's always some kind of pre-min, and that has to go into proof-of-stake. Proof-of-work, you can start it at balance zero. Which one is more valuable? Proof-of-work or proof-of-stake? You can have this debate 24 hours a day, seven days a week. But when it comes down to the tech side of it, I haven't seen anything that's a one-size-solution. I've seen very good use cases of certain things like Ethereum being proof-of-ownership or any of the EVMs being proof-of-ownership. I see Bitcoin being proof or store of value. But I haven't seen anything else other than ownership and value yet come out of blockchain. And literally, blockchain is a database. And behind the scenes, we're working on something in Millennium Club that brings actual database usage to the blockchain. So I guess that's more alpha. Yeah, that's fascinating. That's a great one. And thank you for the reminder of how new this space is, which I think we may sometimes forget. So now why don't we move on to perhaps to more of the roadmap fiery. I know you guys have been at this for, boy, at least 18 months. So what are the goals and plans for the next, say, 6 to 12 months? So we actually took over somewhere around five months back. So that's when we started working. And before that, it was just BOM token, not MCLB or all the work we have been doing with Max. Regarding the last few months, we had been prioritizing the token swap because there were some discrepancies from the earlier team and their allocations. Once all of that was sorted, we started focusing on the borrowing platform. So our immediate concerns or priorities on our roadmap is launching the borrowing platform, getting our stable up, launching on the basic or few chains we want to start with. On the side, we are actively working on the solidly fork end where we are working with many more new folks and diversifying our governance and holdings and liquidity. Also, somewhere along the lines, we have plans for a BOM swap V2, a new fork, but that will take a long time. So that will be probably end of second quarter, maybe. Like, no fixed time, like I said. So a DEX is planned as well. Also, in the middle, we have something like a few wrappers for governance protocols. So we will have more ease in some of the forks. We're also planning to launch our own auto-compounding vaults as they will be needed for the borrowing platform. So we thought we can launch the vaults earlier. So these are some of the things we are focusing on. Once the borrowing platform comes online, it will be more work in a way that we will be continuously adding, upgrading, adding collateral, upgrading things, monitoring it, so to keep a healthy growth for our stable. So these are the initial priorities, but we are very dynamic in the sense that if we are presented with any good opportunity, we are always happy to diversify our workload, so to speak. These folks were not really planned, and we just saw an opportunity and we went with it. Yeah, I love it. And now I've seen in your Discord over the last, particularly the last couple of weeks, it's really starting to blow up. The charts are starting to bring FOMO and bring people who maybe aren't as hardcore into DeFi as some of us. How has the growth been, and how are you thinking about managing that as you grow to a wider and wider base of people in Millennium Club? So that's the luckiest part, where I have a very nice and expansive community. So they are the ones who help new people, guide them, and it's a very collaborative affair. It's not like a team affair where we have paid mods or teams. We have zero paid positions, okay? Only the devs are paid. Otherwise, we have zero paid positions. There are no marketing positions. There are no mods who are paid. I'm not paid. It's just the developers who are paid, and that's it. We don't want to keep paid positions. We feel that's not the spirit of Adao. We want our community to get involved, and we have been very fortunate to have that. Our community has been there, and they have always helped others, and that's why the community keeps growing. It's like the formula of the Solidly Folk has worked really great in tandem with the community, which we are actively working with. So it's more of a collaborative affair. All our driving strategies are openly discussed. New farms, new LPs. It's not like the team is doing things behind closed doors, and then we tell people. It's all being done jointly. So that helps foster that same atmosphere, and we don't have to keep paid mods for this. The amount of work Sunfire does as a volunteer deserves more pay than we would give a mod. So we'll give him a grant soon. We're working on some MCLB grants for the people who have been contributing over time, and we feel we should reward them for their efforts as it's a collective, and that's how the positive feedback loop continues. Yeah, very cool, and it is really a remarkably supportive and welcoming community, and certainly I'll vouch for how open you guys are. The elf is not hidden. It's all right there in chat. Always, sir. I told him about all the F-bomb farms before it happened. Sunfire kicks himself for missing the part. Well, you know, and not only that, right? You'll see pro and con debate, and, you know, that's valuable because, you know, you look at just like a dev perspective or you look at another dev's perspective on it. You start really noticing that, you know, this is what you want or this is what they're concerned about, and then you look at their whitelist and their docs and all that stuff, and then you look at the contract, and, you know, there's times I, you know, I'm like, I'm not going to FOMO over this, and then it's like two weeks later, yeah, I'm kind of FOMOing. Let me get in, and then it doesn't matter because it seems like whatever we're talking about and discussing tends to go up. There's been a few times we've, you know, swung and missed, but, I mean, you kind of expect that in baseball just like you should expect that in blockchain. I've got to say the craziest thing I've seen is that rapper hitting a penny, right? I remember explicitly texting Fiery, and I go, bro, we hit a penny, and he goes, yeah, yeah. He's like, my impermanent loss is going to be through the roof, and then, you know, it didn't dawn on me. Like, I got to look at mine, too, because we're all, you know, staking with liquidity, and I started laughing about it because now I'm calculating my impermanent loss off of FBOM, not, you know, what the price is or anything else is because, in my eyes, FBOM is that valuable. But seeing it hit a penny and then going down, I think everything in crypto went about 20% down, and then it's right back up to a penny again. I'm sitting there doing liquidation or, you know, not liquidation, but liquidity computations, and I'm just in awe of, like, how much support we have, how much liquidity we have in this token across all these chains, and it just, it kind of blows my mind, but yet again, it kind of doesn't blow my mind. But then, you know, when I just burned $200,000 FBOM, I sent a text to Fiery, and I go, yep, I just lit $2,000 on fire. Oh, well, I got the $2,000 on the other chains. I'm good. And we're sitting there laughing because we understand, you know, the value of this token and what it can do, and I'm still impressed. Every single day, I look at it while I'm working on, you know, the Kava contract or the CanDo contract for it, and I'm always thoroughly impressed of where we have, where we're going, and then how soon are we going to get there. And, you know, you want to talk about dream jobs? Yeah, I do get paid by Millennium Club, but I love it. It is a think tank. It is one of those jobs that people wish they had because Fiery will come up to me and go, hey, can we do this? And I go, it's highly improbable, but it's 100% possible, and I'll just go sit back, read up stuff for two, three days, come back with what my take is on it, ask them what its parameters are, and then literally two weeks later, I'm on testnet testing it. And usually I have to have, you know, the other people's repos say if it's a wrapper, like how we did with Phantom Bomb. Everything was already open source, so I took literally bomb and wrap bomb, threw them on testnet, wrapped them up, and then wrapped them into Phantom Bomb just to see how it would work, how it would transfer. And that's why you see we're at what I call Phantom Bomb 3.0. It's because we've upgraded that since testnet. So it's just, I don't know. It's an amazing job, and if you're impressed at where we're at now, wait a couple weeks. See what we're doing, you know, the next month, the month after that, you know, H2 this year, H1 2024, H2 2024. I can only see this group just expanding, and I'm happy to be a part of it. Yeah, I'm glad to have found you guys, of course. Wish I had been earlier, as I often do, but, you know, such is life. So one of our audience members asks if you would run through the three tokens, MCLB, FBOB, and SHRAP, and just differentiate them, please. Yeah, I'm going to try to read and talk about the history. So, yeah, actually, as I mentioned, we had a Redmond Labs takeover where we took over a credit token and renamed it to MCLB with a drop. So that's how the third token came to be. Initially, it was just the BOM token, which was a takeover by me. I had to market buy whatever I have and keep adding LP and rinse and repeat. I took over, like, 150 million of BOM in impermanent loss. Do what you want with that. So as I had to market buy all the BOM, we couldn't really give any incentives. And back then, there was no solid key or solid key folks. So a low key from the community volunteered to get the BOM swap up, and they would have an emissions token, of course, as it's a DEX to incentivize liquidity. So I helped them see the initial liquidity with other members of the community. And that's how BOM swap was formed and the SHRAP token was formed. But as it was just a basic, normal, regular AMM, it didn't really have a lot of traction going forward. And the project and the emissions died down without any real growth. It did get BOM some recognition in the shorter term, but didn't really have a longer term impact. So at this point, when things were looking bleak for SHRAP and BOM swap, I was already wondering how I could help them sustain that project. And this is the time when I met Max and the whole random labs protocol takeover started. So once that started, we realized that there is still a place for SHRAP NIL, and that would be as the future DEX token for the BOM swap B2, which we will launch one day. So the plan would be to have emissions for SHRAP NIL when the new DEX launches, but that would be heavily controlled. And we can work with how that tokenomics would fit in with the DEX. So that would be the primary vision for SHRAP NIL. Along with this, I realized that some mining it under the MCLB umbrella directly would lead to more technical issues. Because as you said, three tokens are too many, so to speak. So we have Seeker from the community who has happily agreed to help me and assist by leading the BOM swap DAO or the SHRAP NIL token powered DAO. So he's been leading the whole charge by putting up emissions, bribes, votes for all the SHRAP NIL pairs. He's been amazing at taking over SHRAP NIL and making it his own, so to speak. So he's been expanding greatly, more DEXs, more farms coming. And by the time the BOM swap B2 comes out, SHRAP NIL should have a nice backing, a nice token holding, some governance power in some DEXs. And basically, it will be ready to launch with a longer term vision and a stronger treasury and a position to launch from. So the end goal would again be to work in tandem with MCLB DAO and BOM. So SHRAP NIL won't be a tangible project in a way that it will just do its own thing, but it will be a separate project working with us for a longer term vision. So we have a lot more plans which would actually work very well with having our own DEXs, including the auto-compounding vaults where you can vote against, as I mentioned. So once we are closer to launching more things, we will launch further features which help integrate the ecosystem with XBM on demand. Yeah, very cool. So much happening. So should we take some questions from the audience at this point? Yes, that sounds good. Excellent. But before we do that, I should say at this point, I, of course, am an investor, so this is not financial advice. You can, however, buy FBOB on Firebird on many, many chains. You can buy MCLB using FBOB also on Firebird, on Phantom. And yeah, now if anybody has any questions, please tweet them at us or request to speak and we'll get you up on stage. And I guess if you want to talk the tech behind MCLB token, that was fun for the Myrtle Tree airdrop. Because when Fiery gave me the list of who needs to get it, I believe Fiery and I sat back and talked about what tools I needed. There were certain tools I didn't have, so it took me a couple of weeks to write everything, verify everything, confirm everything, look at this, look at that. And I think that was actually one of the coolest tech toys that I actually came up with, was roll your own from scratch. Right. That was a very cool airdrop. Excellent. Brian, welcome to the stage. Do you have a question? Hi, sir. How are you doing? That's okay. I've been shy before and I've had tech issues. I mean, speaking of tech issues, I was thinking this was not going to be on Twitter. It was going to be on the AMA because it had the reminder on Discord. So I'm sitting there in the Discord stuff, popping GIFs left and right. Well, maybe not left and right, but, you know, making my presence known. And then I get two DMs of, hey, get on Twitter. It's like, oh, yeah, my bad. I got to read the messages every once in a while. Hey, this is Brian. Hey, I didn't mean to hit a question that just popped up on my headset while I was listening. So enjoying what I'm hearing and I don't have a question right now. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. Joe, welcome to the stage. Hey, Jim, everyone. Jim, sir, what you got for us? How are we doing? We're doing great. All right. I came across your Twitter AMA just a few minutes ago, then I decided to join. So I don't know much about the project. So what is the project all about? That would be a very large concept to explain here. How about you join our Discord and we can give you an intro of some of the things we are doing. Our primary token is FMOM at this point, for which we have been working on getting a lot of farms. So basically a deflationary token with no emissions. There are no emissions for FMOM. So a deflationary token with high APR on many chains. That's like a good cut of what we are doing here. What are the utilities your token provides? I'm sorry, can you repeat that? What are the utilities your token provides? I'm going to suggest that you listen to the recording of this one since we've covered that, if you don't mind. Can anyone hear me? Yes, yes, we can hear you, sir, but we've already discussed these things earlier in our chat. If you want, you can listen to this later and please feel free to join our Discord and ask. I'll be there all the time. All right, all right, all right. I will join you. I will join your Discord as well. Cool. Thanks for joining. And Kenny, welcome to the stage. Hey, Sierra Dev. Okay, I found this on the web for GIV. Check it out. Good morning for some of you. My question was, I'm actually a part of the MCLB token drop that you did previously. My question was, how do I buy more MCLB token if I wanted to? And also for Max, what's your view on the Phantom blockchain after you've been working on it versus all the other ones you know already? All right, I'll let Fiery go first. I'll give you my in-depth with what I think, Phantom. Sure. So for buying MCLB, the best way would be to use Firebird on the Phantom chain and swap using FBOM. So basically buy FBOM first and then buy MCLB using FBOM. This provides the best route as we have very deep liquidity on the FBOM-MCLB pair. Thank you. All right, and when it comes down to Phantom versus the world, I really haven't seen much of a difference on the quote-unquote FBM because it's still an EVM using the same opcodes. I don't know if they've upgraded the block difficulty to P-Mirando or whatever that new one is that got released since 8.18. But with that being said, it's very fast, it's very finite. The finality is within 0.9 seconds. You really can't complain about that. That basically means once you hit send, as long as you put enough gas in there, it's confirmed. I will say the validation was pretty awesome up until we reduced the rate. I'm not complaining, I'm still up. But I'm complaining because I would rather have more Phantom than less. Yeah, I've seen the roadmaps. I'm in chats that have the CEO, COO of Phantom Foundation in them. So I mean, yeah, I do have access to the top. They do communicate. But just like any other dev, I expect that CTO to do the CTO stuff. And Andre is going to be Andre. He's going to be a recluse and then all of a sudden he's all over the place. If you look at me, even on Twitter, I'll be a recluse for like three weeks and then I'm all over the place. That's how you can tell I'm in between dev cycles. I do like Phantom. I do see a DAG issue in the future with Phantom. If we can get ahead of it, that'd be great. But eventually it will slow the chain down a little bit. I don't see finality being over like two or three seconds, but I can see finality hitting maybe 1.2, 1.3 seconds over time. And I've heard FBM so many times, but I haven't heard the technicals of FBM yet. But once I got the technicals, it'll make me either like Phantom more or it'll be, yeah, I develop on Phantom. I wouldn't say I'm a maxi of any chain. I like all the chains. It's just, you know, it's one of those things of, well, what's your favorite Apple? Is it a Granny Smith? It's sort of like one of those questions because, you know, every once in a while you want that tartness of like Ethereum. But to be honest with you, I like that cheapness of Phantom. Man, I can deploy a contract on Phantom for a buck. When I'm deploying it on Ethereum, sometimes it's up to $2,000. So, I mean, tell me what, like financially, and obviously I don't like fiat, but I have to compare everything like rent and everything else to fiat. The fiat component of it, I love because it is inexpensive, it's fast, it's reliable. So, yes, I do like Phantom, but I haven't seen my number one chain, you know, outside of Bitcoin, because Bitcoin, you know, obviously does Bitcoin things. But for the ownership component or even a database component, I haven't seen that this is where I'm going to stay for the rest of my life because there's always these gimmicks. But I do like Phantom because of the speed, the price, and obviously the rewards from validation. Yeah, great question. Thanks, Kenny. Thank you for answering that, Ray. Relentless. Yo, what's up, guys? Just wanted to hop up here, say thanks for coming on our show. First off, really appreciate that. And then, Max, I kind of had a question for you. I know that a lot of people in the audience might not be familiar with BitDamons and everything that you're doing over there. But I'm wondering, is there some kind of integration with what MCLB is doing and what you're building over there as you guys are transitioning away from, you know, what BitDamons historically used to be, which is just kind of a, you know, a GIF, if you will. You know, just great JPEGs. But with the move over to Canto in order to take over some validating stuff over there, are you guys looking at any kind of, like, integration that may not be possible for us to think about? Okay, great question. Do they have a validator? Yes. Do I have access to that validator? Yes. Are they building, and with myself, also building? Because, remember, Lucky has gotten up to speed. He actually deployed that contract, believe it or not. I did the back-end for him. He did the website. He did the Web3 integration. So there's another partnership over 18 months, you know. I even developed owners into developers. I must be insane. But it really did help on this one because when it came down to now the nitty-gritty with CSR, he found the CSR. He integrated it. He showed me how to integrate CSR. So CSR is on the Canto chain for us already with FBOM. So, yes, there is a definite information flow going between Damon Dow and Millennium Club. And I'm probably the reason why. Another thing with the validation and their NFTs on Canto, I am working on a trustless system. So the actual contract itself is the one that is staked into the validator. Obviously, I got some time to work on that one. That's not a, we need it now because we're using, I don't know if we're using the multi-sig right now or if we're using EOA for it, but right now we have those. It's proven. You can see the transactions validating. And I will admit it did dilute my Damon Dow validation from, I think it was like 30% down to 20%. So, yes, they are building. Will that go into MCLB? Yes. Will there be some kind of backdoor, you know, obviously we're working together? Well, obviously. I mean, I'm a developer on both projects. So I take ideas to Fiery. Fiery can take ideas to him. And it's basically building the community up. So, yes. But I also want to ask you a question because the audience always gets to ask us questions. I'm going to ask you one. Why is the sky blue? Because the good Lord made it that way. I will accept that. I was about to say refraction of light. I'd probably be wrong. Yeah, see, there you go. I would have said something like, but I would have worded it more poorly like the reflection of the ocean back into the sky or something like that. Which I guess technically is the refraction of light off the water, but I wouldn't have said it as eloquently as Fiery. Actually, it's not refraction from the water. Refraction of light is actually happening in the atmosphere. Yeah. See, I don't know why you're asking science questions in public, man. That's not cool. Okay, what's two plus two? Five. And this is why I love this man. This is why my bags are the way they are. I'm not great with math. Sir, we both have bag issues. Don't worry. Eventually, we will have another bold run. Yeah, accumulate till then. But yeah, very cool. I really appreciate the answer to that question. I've been in the Damon Dow for a long, long time. It's the actual first JPEG that I bought. And I think the second Discord group that I ever joined. So it was super cool to see you guys working together. I knew you had something planned, so I'm excited to see how that plays out. And you know, that was actually a one-off that I was working in that incubator. And they incubated, and it took off. And it took off due to... We weren't going to sit back and do nothing. I mean, I have my own sweat and blood and tears in those contracts. Especially on the TinyDamons, the WaveDamons, and then the DigiDamons. DamonPunks was more on them. And it was kind of funny watching Lucky go from, I use Remix, to, holy crap, your Truffle environment does everything. And I was like, yeah, I've been using it for like two and a half years, man. I would hope it does everything. Yeah, that's fair. It's a great partnership. Two great people. And for anyone in the audience, if you're not familiar with BitDamons, you can go to who I follow, look up Lucky Luciano, and check them out, because that is a hell of a group to be a part of. And yeah, I'm known to pop JPEGs in there, too. They have this contest of where on earth is MaxFlow hanging out subconsciously. Duck Hunt Channel on MCLP, I have alerts for, because I'm trying to catch Fiery. He has an experience level that is far greater than mine. And I am trying to catch him. Is that what that is? I was searching your post history and wondering what was going on. I'm looking for something. Oh, man, I even looked up a bot for the bot commands. I've been using different bot commands at it. I was actually pulling the bot command to see what cost what. I mean, I'm a developer. What do you expect, man? If something piques my interest, I'm going to play around with it. All right, shall we get back on track? Cat Dad, welcome to the stage. Hey, guys. Hey, Max. Hey, Fiery. Thanks for hosting this space. I have a... Can you guys hear me? Yeah, yeah. We're good. We're good. All these are places to have you, sir. I have a semi-serious question, but I'm also kind of taking the piss a little. When do we turn on the real money printer? Like, that is buying back FBOM and, you know, with all the DEX reward tokens that the DAO accumulates each week. Like, for example, all reward tokens that the DAO could get from, say, Velodrome Brides and PLL Farming, we could just find more FBOM each week. You know, just continuous buy flywheel. Of course. So that's actually a good strategy, and that's the first one we were thinking of. But as I had mentioned in the previous little while, we have a larger flywheel, which we are aiming for. So the aim is not just to keep growing the value of FBOM or just to focus on FBOM, but to also focus on our borrowing platform and our stable. So what we are trying to do is we are trying to let FBOM arbitrate, let users, let the multi-farms, let all the LPs we formed with the native DEX token boost that burn. And meanwhile, we are actually trying to increase our voting positions. So just buying more FBOM would be a smaller or a short-term solution, as it would increase value, of course, it would increase liquidity, but it would increase our voting part or the long-term emissions, which is sustaining those farms. So it's a situation where it reminds me of the situation of the saying, give a man a fish, he'll be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll be fed for life. So what we are aiming for is not just a one-time boost in FBOM. I'll be honest, I could just market my FBOM, and that would really give us a lot more market green APRs, so to speak, and a lot of green charts, but that's not sustainable. At the end of the day, everyone would look for something which would be a continuous and ongoing basis. If it's just a price increase, the only answer the investor or community can have is to sell to that pump. The point is not to have pumps or dumps. The point is to have a sustainable APR. So imagine a deflationary asset which is reducing and still earning you a net APR of 200% per annum. I say if we even manage to sustain a 100% APR for an endless point of time or a longer duration, that would help sustain the burn on a longer period rather than just buying it from the rewards in the short term. So this has fueled our methodology, and this actually also helped us boost our drives and keep increasing more farms. So the drives are the one which makes FBOM a desirable protocol for the new authority folks to get us admitted as an initial partner. So once we drive, we vote, and we initiate that side deal there, they realize that we are not really extracting value from the system but we are actually adding value. As the deflationary aspect of FBOM makes it possible that while we add value to the text, we are actually adding value back to our own token as well. So that's the unique opportunity we have, and we realized working in collaboration will bring us more opportunities and more burn in the longer term. I'm open to additional school of thought in case there is something we can improve upon. No, no, that all makes sense. I suppose in the short and medium term, that's a great strategy, but for long term, no one's really sure if these solidly forks will survive this cycle. Everyone here knows how crypto works. Usually these type of decks only last one cycle. Next cycle, I'm sure there's going to be better, more beneficial decks to be a part of. So my view is it's not for the long term. That's actually a very good point you put up when you say that we don't know if the solidly forks will last this cycle. So what I have personally seen and observed and why I became a fan of the solidly methodology is this is something very different from the earlier protocols. The priority here is not to gain LPs via emissions. The priority is here to sustain those LPs via voter fees. So equalizer is the best example as it has the best fee to voter ratio currently. So that's actually netting APR of, I would like to recall, something like 70% to 80% annually just from the fee, from the trading fee. So that's actually the end goal, where the voting, the emissions can be sustained from just the trading fee. If it's a fee-based model and you compare it from the traditional risk-free assets, which we have. So the risk-free assets in the traditional non-crypto world are 4% to 5% APR per annum. Imagine a DeFi asset, which is actually earning you an APR of, let's say, 30%, 40%, or even 50% just from the fee. So that would actually make it more sustainable. In the earlier cases, the first text we had was Uniswap. So the current still-existing issue is there is no proper fee-sharing mechanism built in Uniswap. So that failed at that point. And as you know, the current narrative is focusing around real yield. So real yield is something which is not just a narrative, I would say, but it's actually an end goal because everyone wants to earn from their collateral or earn some financial incentives from their DeFi activities. So real yield provides that incentive while not diluting anyone or introducing emissions to the system. So the end goal is very fee-based for a majority, if not all the protocols working out there. And as I see that, the fee-capture mechanism in the Solidly folks have been really performing well. And if it continues to do so, I mean, I dare say, I mean, I'm very invested in this, and I don't want to jinx it. But yeah, if it all goes well, I won't be complaining. And I'm sure the FOMS holders will be happy as well. 100%, man. I think this is a long, like a different conversation that we can have around sustainability and don't want to get into it right now. But just want to give one example of what you said. So Equalizer, look, I'm a huge fan of the protocol. I've got big bags. I was farming on day one. Got a lot of lock to the NFT positions. It's just not, I mean, most, a lot of people, maybe people haven't looked into this, but they give out $700,000 worth of emissions per week for like $200,000 bribes. Like it's just, we'll see what happens. It's a bit scary when you look at those kind of figures. Even with all the fees and everything else, there's still like a deficit around at least $400,000 a week, every single week. So I hope- Of course. Yeah. Of course. Those scales and balances will change with time. Sorry, John. Yeah, sorry to interrupt. Those scales and balances will change with time, but Velo was the first player. So I would like to say that if you want to check the bribe versus emissions chart, Velo may be a better candidate. Actually, you know why Velo succeeded, though. It's because they spent like literally $1 million plus worth of optimism on bribe matching and those incentives to lock. I mean, if Equalizer had those incentives, there'd be even a higher, greater price right now. I will say, like, again, I'm very much hoping these things succeed, but Velo literally spent, and I think most people on this call will be aware as well, like millions and millions of OP tokens. It's still, like, they got a new grant, I think in November, I forget when, or October for another six or seven million. Sun5 will be able to chat more about this, because I'm sure he's been following, and we discuss this in the Facebook and Discord pretty often as well. But yeah, like, it's hard to envision sustainability when their expenditure is like millions more, maybe spending other people's tokens, but same kind of thing. Once those grants run out, once those bribes dry up, we'll see how that goes. Again, fingers crossed. I agree with you 100%. I agree with you 100%. So that's why we take two schools apart here. That's why we also diversify and have a leader position in Beethoven. And I'm happy that all the emissions and the incentives we talk of are not from FBOM and NCLB. So I understand that that may play a tricky role in the longer term, but the whole Solidly Fork ecosystem is very new and experimental in that aspect. So as we are covering literally all the Visa folks at this point, we will be open to all the price and the impact from how all of these protocols perform. So basically, we are diversifying into the various Solidly Forks, so each having its own methodology, having its own nuances on how it wants to work or how it sees itself to be successful in this space. So we'll be open to exposure from all of those methodologies. And I feel that all of these folks are building towards sustainability in a way that they're learning. And as I see Saturn on Polygon recently formed a sort of a cabal, a collaboration where such folks are actively working together to solve issues. So I feel it's a very learn from experiences kind of an approach and still a very dynamic environment as we see still more folks emerging. There is actually one more fact that I would like to point out is that each team will have a native marketplace for trading. And I'm not saying Solidly is a system, Solidly Fork is a system which is a sure shot model of working, but it's a lot better than the earlier AMMs we were dealing with. So I see each chain will at least have one native fork of Solidly to host all the LPs, to host all the liquidity. And chains like Arbitrum where there is a lot more user activity will invite more folks. So it will be more of a competitive environment in those places. And that competitive environment is what will actually fuel innovation and which gets forked to the other chains eventually. So I feel as the Solidly Fork season is catching up, it will still grow to an expansive scale. And I'm hoping that we are still early to this ecosystem and this is the year of Solidly Forks. Yeah, and I appreciate your thoughts. I'm off to the other view that it's kind of winding down. I think after the next couple of months we'll see forks of either Camelot or Neodexys, but we'll see how this industry progresses. Things change very quickly. I'm hoping for another at least three to six months of Solidly season, but that's usually things turn faster than one expects. But anyway, thanks guys. I don't want to take up, I'm sure other people have questions. So I appreciate everyone's thoughts and time here. No, that was a great question, by the way. I mean, now you got me thinking and that's always a good thing. Right, great questions. I'm thinking too. Do we have comprehensive efficiency stats for DEXs? Like, that's what we really need is writing an analysis of which DEXs are A, the most efficient at executing trades, but then also which are able to generate the most fees out of those efficient trades. There's good stuff that Beethoven puts out, which is revenue to emissions. The higher the ratio, the better, of course, because you're essentially getting more revenue per emission. But even Beethoven's at like 0.3 or 0.4, which is quite low. I know they're improving, as they've changed a lot of the, how the gorge works, everything else works. But usually, unless, I mean, we'll see how things go, but Velo's always been super, super low, super low revenue, even with all the bribes and whatnot compared to their emissions. I think it's interesting how these were more and more maturing, but I did some stats a while back on how inefficient these DEXs were. It's an evolving model, and I appreciate how everyone thinks the bribes will keep helping things out, but we all know how bribes work. They're very fickle. There's no guaranteed lock-ins. A new DEX comes up, or another chain, or another new model comes up, people will ship bribes like next day. There's no sort of lock-ins people have. If they get better bribe efficiency on a new DEX, they'll change it. Protocols are best information. And that's a fun fact that you mentioned, the fee-to-emissions chart. I think it would be prudent to point that the fee-to-emissions ratio for MCLV is infinite, just in case anyone is wondering. Yeah, great point, and great that you bring up Beethoven's Monthly Report, which I think is one of the best in the industry. Thanks. Yeah, and there's another thing that probably needs to be put in there, and that's the cost, the user cost. Because, I mean, there's always a cost to do a transaction on the blockchain itself. Yeah, thanks, Cat Dad. Because now I'm probably going to write this all in assembly and see if I can optimize it all the way down to the least amount of gas for a transaction, just like I did with 721s back in the day. No worries, guys. Take care. Cheers, Ben, and thank you for that question. That was really good, and I came with a lot of food for thought. Yeah, thank you. And then I think our last question... is kind of a troll, but I think we should take it anyway. Sunfire says, I want alpha on the KeyDAO fork. You say it's going to be geared more for DGN use. What does that all mean? Focus on LPs with more risky and volatile assets? Max borrow caps for each LP like KeyDAO does? Is the fee structure and uses going to change from how KeyDAO is now? Yes, entirely new fee structure, as we are more DGN fork, so we are taking on more risky collaterals and risky LPs, so to speak. So, yes, assume that there will be major changes in fee. As KeyDAO is a zero interest fee kind of a protocol, we won't be the same. We will be charging interest fee. This is because the auto-compounding walls will be making the users a decent APR, so I see that we can afford charging that fee. Yeah, it makes sense. Fee revenue is good. Excellent. Well, I think we have reached the end. Do you guys have any closing remarks? Bob, that's amazing. This is probably the longest AML I've ever done. Yeah, thanks so much for bearing with us for this long. This has been just fascinating. This is definitely not the longest AML. It's been truly my pleasure. I've been waiting on this for a long time. I just wanted to say, this isn't the longest AML I've ever been on. Like, I had two or three pots of coffee, man. I can go for another four hours if you want. But for closing remarks, four chains and seven epochs ago, I had a geranium, and I had two chains, and seven epochs ago, I had a geranium, but not all tokens are created equal. Something, something, something by Epon. Awesome. We definitely need to do a longer version, but we've got to have a couple more developers on it so you guys can really get into it about the tech. Oh, man, it would be nerdsense. Like, you literally got to open that space, put your phone on charger, and just mute it, and just let us go at it for 24 hours straight. Like, have eight devs come in, only one remains. Anytime, I'm happy to host. Those are my favorite kind of AMAs. So, well, great. Thanks so much, Maxflow, Fiery Dev. This has been Millennium Club and FBOB. I've been Dejanik, along with Relentless. We're DeFi Writers. Thanks so much, everyone, for joining, and look forward to listening to the recording both on Twitter and then in a couple days on YouTube.
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