Ocean Acidification

The podcast discusses two topics: ocean acidification and electronic waste. Caleb shares his research on battery waste and its harmful effects on the environment, particularly the poisoning of soil due to the acid in batteries. Joshua explains ocean acidification, which occurs when carbon from the air dissolves into the ocean, creating carbonic acid. This acid damages shellfish and crustaceans, leading to an imbalance in the ecosystem. The conversation also touches on the impact of heat from carbon emissions on coral reefs, causing them to lose their algae and die off. The hosts discuss the need for cleaner energy sources, such as solar panels and nuclear power, to mitigate these environmental issues. Okay, so, welcome to the podcast. Today we have Joshua and Caleb. I'd like to say hello, but I'd like you guys to introduce yourselves, say who you are. I'm Caleb, a grade 10 student at Denverville High, not really much else to me. I'm Joshua. I'm also a grade 10 student at Denverville High. I don't know anything else to say about me. You're a very basic human being. Yes, they need to know that. Thank you. If you guys could lift up your mics. Of course. So the topic today is going to be about ocean acidification. Joshua, I know you have done some research, but Caleb, I know you don't know anything about ocean acidification. So, I also did some research with Josh, but can you tell us what you did? I did electronic waste. More along the lines of battery waste. About like sustainable solutions for getting rid of it and what it really does to an environment. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? The lithium core in a battery, its acid has depowered to absolutely decimated ecosystems by poisoning the soil. So, if disposed improperly, it can kill pretty much everything in that small area. So, you're telling me that it can kill everything in that area. How many batteries would that actually take? Just like one or two, really. They have a very strong amount of lithium in their core. So, very toxic. Interesting. So, one battery, like you're saying, like the acid inside, if it were to leak into the soil, it could kill everything within how much of a radius? About a mile-ish. Mile? Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, I know now you guys talked about batteries. Did you have anything about like electronics and their reuse about them? No, I researched only on batteries. Only on batteries. Okay. Well, that's still very vital and important. Thank you for sharing. Joshua, do you want to help me explain about ocean acidification? Sure. And how it's kind of hurting and damaging our environment. Okay. So, spoiler alert, we could all die. But again, anybody could. Well, naturally. Fair enough. So, Joshua, do you want to get started? Can you talk about how, like, what's happening to the ocean, exactly? Well, ocean acidification is when the carbon from the air dissolves into the ocean and it creates the carbonic acid, which, I forget the exact ions and stuff. Okay. But it mixes with a couple of the different elements in the water and it creates that carbonic acid, which then dissolves things in the ocean and damages specifically shellfish and crustaceans, like their shells. Calcium in the shell is specifically targeted by that acid. Yeah. And causes them to be, their shells to be destroyed and then that's killing them, which then affects the whole entire ecosystem in the ocean and it causes a major imbalance. So, yeah. So, I don't know if you said this, but you're talking about how it creates a carbonic acid. I believe it specifically targets the calcium vitamin, which is mostly what, did you mention that? I think you did, yes. Oh, my bad. I meant to say both calcium. Okay, but yes. Would that not also kill coral, then? It would kill the, you know how like coral is like a bone-like structure. So, it would hurt the outside of the coral, but that's also not the only thing affecting the coral. As I'm sure you also researched, Josh. So, what happens is the sun creates a lot of gas. But with all its... That's what the sun is. Exactly. But with the heat coming down from the sun, it warms up the water and then with too many rays and the heat, especially from the carbon being emissioned from factories, cars, motorcycles, dump trucks, for who of those are listening that are five. We all love dump trucks, by the way. Naturally, who doesn't? Exactly. But, I guess Josh doesn't. Don't mind him, kids. So, the carbon emissions, also known as gas, is being trapped in our air. And that's causing the heat from the sun to also be trapped in our atmosphere. And with that heat, it's hurting the coral because there, fun fact, is an algae living inside the shell of the coral. And when there's too much heat, it needs to expel the algae out. But once that algae is gone, it doesn't have something to let it survive. And it's kind of like this nice fuzzy warm blanket, exactly. So, when you have it, you guys all know when you're in bed in the morning, you fell asleep, you just wake up, it's like, I don't want to get out of bed. Especially on a school day. Literally. No comment from Josh. He's weird. My friend. In this case, the coral, the algae is kind of like this fuzzy blanket, and it can't really survive without it. But, there's also other reasons that it's also affecting our ecosystem, which Josh, do you want to add on to? Well, the coral, as you said, the algae inside it is one of the reasons why the coral can't survive. And the heat makes it lose the algae, which also makes it die eventually. The death of the coral affects the rest of the entire ecosystem, because the coral provides homes for a lot of different fish species. Sheltered from larger fish and predators, stuff like that. Like sharks. Yeah, because sharks can't go into the coral, but the little fish can. Like in Nemo. Yeah. Yeah, great example. And then, when their homes all die off, and then they have no more homes, they have nowhere to hide, then they all will get eaten. But, if all of the fish are eaten, well, then there's no more food left for the bigger fish. And they die off too. Yeah, so, the heat is especially affecting the coral, which then also causes a complete imbalance in the ecosystem, which then causes everything to die off. So, roughly, how long would you say that the coral has been affected and will continue to be affected? Like, how long has the carbon been heating the atmosphere, and that's directly affecting the coral? Yeah. I don't know exactly how long that's been. I remember I researched it, but I don't know exactly when that was. Okay. Oh, I researched when we first realized that it was a problem. I think that was somewhere from the 1800s, 1900s. I can't remember. Like, 18, early 19th? Something like that, I believe. Okay. The biggest, or first big spike in coral, like, turning white, like discoloration? Yeah, something like that. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was somewhere around there, I believe. But at the rate that we're going with our technological advances and the manufacturing of products, how long do you think it will be before we have enough clean energy, or we do something that this coral actually may die off? Um, I think even now, we have ways of making cleaner energy to at least slow it down. Yeah. So, I think we could stop it from dying off. The problem is whether we will. There is a few different ways to make much cleaner energy than we do right now. Because, well, you would say, like, solar panels and stuff like that, while they are a cleaner energy source, they're probably going to need a lot of space. So, one thing that we might be able to do is if we could install solar panels in areas where we're already using space, but we can have that on top. Like on top of houses? Yeah, on top of houses and stuff. If we could install that all over the place, that could be used as a way of producing a large amount of energy in places that doesn't, we don't have to destroy more environments to make that energy. Windmills, not as much so, you need a lot of space for those and you can't just plop them on top of a house. Yeah. So, while they are a cleaner kind of energy, they do take up a lot of space and destroy a lot of environment. Yeah, we have, even things like nuclear power plants are a cleaner energy than coal plants and stuff. But they're more efficient and they don't produce carbon, they produce, they have radioactive waste, which we do have quite safe ways of getting rid of that waste without destroying the environment. Because if you, they have these big things where they can put the waste inside of these really strong containers and they bury them deep enough underground that they aren't in any real major ecosystem. But the containers they put this waste in, they are extremely strong. Some of their test was hitting it with a train and when they hit it with a train, it survived enough that it wouldn't even leak. So, they're very strong and if you bury them deep enough underground, then they're not really much different from the natural uranium in the first place. So, storing, like getting rid of nuclear waste isn't the biggest deal. The problem with that is you have to then dig a massive hole underground and store them in which will disrupt some of the environment. But, not as much as tossing that waste right on top of it. Yeah, and then the nuclear power plant itself, the only, like what it shoots to the atmosphere is just steam from water, it's just water vapors. So, it doesn't create carbon emissions or anything like that. Another downside to nuclear is nuclear power plants tend to not last as long, which is a little bit of a downside, but they would be more efficient than coal or oil and stuff like that. Because you have to, first you have to mine, well you still have to mine uranium for nuclear power, but you can use, I think there might be ways of using nuclear waste from a power plant to create more nuclear power, which then would make that even more efficient. I'm not sure exactly, I haven't done a lot of research into that. I think I've heard of that before, but I'm not sure. If so, that would be even more efficient. And yeah, and then you have to mine to get the uranium for nuclear power, which along with coal, you have to do that mining, which disrupts a lot of the environment too. So, I think for really any way of getting power is to do mining. I'm not sure as much for... Well, there's hydroelectric dams. Hydroelectric dams, yeah, you don't have to do, ways to mine some of the resources to build it, but that's for everything. Hydroelectric dams, they'll do disrupt the environment around it by changing the flow of water, which they do minimize as much as possible by giving space for fish to pass through there. Yeah, but it's just one area, unlike mining, where it's going to other parts. Question though, for the, you said it, the nuclear power plant, it releases water vapor. Do you think they'd be able to create a way to trap the water vapor to turn that into energy as well? Well, the water vapor is generally how they make the energy, because they use the nuclear power to heat up a ton of water and that turns into steam and it drives turbines with it, is generally how nuclear power plants work. Would they be able to trap that water and just continue cycling it? Possibly. The water still does go back into the environment and it's not like, because the nuclear elements are much heavier than the water particles, so they don't go into the air with the water. But trapping the water and reusing it, while it might be possible, it also might need such a much larger building to trap that all, and then to not cause too much pressure. Because capturing the water, if you're storing it in just one spot, and if you can't quickly recycle it, you might cause such a high pressure spot, like trapped it somewhere, that could destroy things and be difficult to deal with. I'm not sure if it would be. Just a thought I had. Generally, I think the water vapor, it does go back into the environment, so it's not the largest problem ever. So, getting back on track to ocean acidification, kind of trailed off a little bit there, talking about nuclear power plants, but who doesn't like a big explosion sometimes, right? With our dying coral and our dying ecosystem, do you think the world, well of course it won't be the same, but do you think we could be able to replace that, or do you think that's going to be a big chunk that's going to be missing in our actual living style? Well, of course, I know we're from a small town. Neverville, Manitoba. Represent. Yes, hello guys, we're from Canada, right? By the way, we do not live in igloos. Not much. But, again, do you think this is going to be something that will greatly impact the world's living style? I would say it depends how far we let it go. Okay. If we can stop this from killing off coral and stuff quickly, then it will probably not be too much of a big deal. Sorry guys for the interruption, we had someone come into the studio. Take it away, Josh, you were talking about the fish market. Yeah, so the seafood market is worth a lot of money. And I think in 2022, so it was worth $5.4 billion for 2022, in Canada alone. You know, $5.4 billion. Yes. That is a lot of money, just like the market, how much you're making from it, all this stuff, like collaborative, like $5.4 billion. In Canada alone. $5.4 billion? Yes. Wow. It's worth a lot, and that's why I'm saying if we let this ocean acidification problem go on too long, we will cause a lot of destruction and loss to the seafood market, too. And since it's worth so much, and it brings a lot to the economy of the world, it would be a serious issue to just lose that. So you're saying not only would it be an environmental problem, it would also be an economic problem as well. Yeah. A lot of countries would suffer from this. Well, I'm also thinking as a tourist and a normal person, not an expert, that would also very much impact the tourism area with like the Great Barrier Reef being gone. Yeah, no, that's a good point. And like diving in coral reefs is a huge thing, and like turtle watching is a huge thing. I would also like to point out a bunch of European countries, like the Nordics, so Norway, well I shouldn't say Nordics, but Northern, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, those countries, and a lot of the East Mediterranean countries, they have a lot of fish in their diet. And especially since it's close to the equator, I feel like this also plays a big part on how warm the ocean gets. Yeah. But if these reefs disappear, I feel like it would have more of an impact for those countries because that is generally their main food source. And that's anywhere that's coastal. Yeah. And smaller countries who rely on coral reefs for their tourism and their income, those would suffer heavily as well. Yeah. Yes. So not only would we have an environmental problem on our hands, but we'd also have economic, the world, I wouldn't say go into crisis, but it definitely has to work its way out of this one for a good chunk of time. A good long while. Yeah. So, now that we've talked about that, what can we do to help with this? Like, what can we do to help the coral, help the fish, their ecosystem... Survive. Okay, yeah, you can tell them to survive. But I'm saying, what can we do as average people to bring this awareness and tell people, yeah, our coral is dying, yeah, our fish is dying. Without all this, well, Earth ain't gonna crumble, but it sure is gonna be in a lot of trouble. So how do we make people aware that this is an actual issue, and that this is a problem that we need to address? And we should have addressed long before, but that we definitely need to address now. Josh, do you want to talk? I think we need to... Spreading the word is one of the things I can think of right now. Yeah, so spreading the knowledge about it so everyone knows, and if we can get a lot of people to be serious about this. We might be able to cause some sort of change. Hopefully, at least. So, I know you watched the documentary with me, Chasing Coral. By the way, guys, on Netflix, make sure to get a subscription, watch this documentary, it is fantastic. The producer of this, with Chasing Coral, also did one on icebergs, and I believe something else. He is a... Grammy? I'm not singing. Oscar? He's gotten very vicarious awards on this, and he is very well known. I would check out these documentaries, they're an interesting watch, very emotional though, so be prepared. Back on track. We were talking about... Spreading the word. Spreading the word. The reason I brought up the documentary, not only, remember guys, good watch. In the documentary, they tried, they had trial and error on ways to show people about this problem. One was going to public events, and having their own stand set up, with videos, VR systems. Another was they tried recording a time lapse, an underwater camera, which they actually built on their own. Pretty cool, by the way. And finally, with a bunch of trial and error, they actually went to schools, and had kids wear these glasses, where it showed a coral reef, and it showed a dead version. So, of course, we don't have money. We don't have the supplies to do that. Or resources. It would be sick though. But, any advice you can give to our listeners on how just a normal person, I know you said spreading the word, but like, how would we do that? You could, one good thing is you could share documentaries about this with people. That's one way. Because if you can get people really invested in it by sharing a documentary that does all the hard work of research for you, then you don't have to do nearly as much. But you can get a lot of information that you wouldn't be able to come across on your own as well. Yeah, and the more influence you have on people, like if you have a large following somewhere, and you get them to care about that, and get that stuff spread around, that can help a lot of people to realize this problem. It's hard. I'm not sure what else can be done. We're all kind of in a pickle right now. And the problem is, a lot of these problems, like one of the reasons why there is so much carbon is because of how, like factories, stuff like that, but those are all owned by the really powerful rich people. Big corporates. And how do you want to change? How do you get them to change? Because they're so focused on what gets them money, and what's cheaper, and has a higher profit. So it's more environmentally friendly. Would you say a pro tip to companies coming on, you guys all know the brand Tentrees, right? Yeah. Josh? I think so. This company likes to, for every item of clothing sold, they like to plant Tentrees. Yeah. In theory, have they actually done it? Yes, they have. That's pretty astounding. Imagine this clothing company, big clothing company, planting Tentrees per item sold. So I do think the future of business for companies now is to take environmental issues and kind of put that in their standing, like what can they actually do to help the world, but then also give you the product that you want. Yeah. So I think something for companies to do is looking at where their products are coming from, like how they're made, the resources, the areas. How many times they've gone back and forth around the world. Exactly. And I think part of the issue is a bunch of these big corporates are more so focused on making money rather than what they're doing is actually effect, like realizing how this is affecting our world and our environment. Of course, everyone loves new clothing every now and then. Yeah. Like, hey, you got a new t-shirt. This is like my favorite t-shirt now. But I do think that for every item of clothing purchased, there has been at least a nice jar of gas put into the air. And imagine there was statistics where one year this clothing company made 16 billion shirts. Why? Because we only have 7.8 billion people, but we definitely need 16 billion shirts from this one company. Well, naturally. Exactly. But do you think all those 16 million shirts are being put to use? If this goes into the Great Dump in the Pacific Ocean, I believe, right? Yes, probably. Yes. If it goes into that, that also affects our oceans. And we need to think more about environmental issues than consumerism and wanting to buy things. Yeah. And that's a good point. Yeah. That's another way that you can help by buying less. Yes. Using stuff to its fullest potential rather than just getting something new because you can is a good way to help, actually. By the way, Mom, my green New Balances you bought me in grade 6. Amazing. You didn't have to throw them away. I love those shoes. May have had holes, but they were still good. Could have tossed them to the grits, or I'm sure someone would have bought them. Yeah. So I'm keeping any shoes you give me now. But those were good shoes. Okay. Back on topic, though. What do you, like, you were talking about factories and cars. What do you think is the biggest issue? The biggest issue. Like, main cause of this. Because I know we started the Industrial Revolution, like, all this kind of started around late 1800s, early 1900s. And for the longest time, we've been using steam engines and coal. Yeah. So that produced a lot of carbon. But, like, if we're talking about today, what do you think the biggest issue would be? Like, the biggest cause? Yes. Well, I think one of the reasons why we have so much of it today is because that's what it started out as. So when it starts out that way, we kind of just keep it because it's the easiest thing we know. And I think developing and doing a lot more research into environmentally friendly and then making a big shift in what we use can be costly. And a ton of companies don't want to spend that much money. Yeah. It's costly and it's a problem. But it's the way that we need to go forward to fix these problems that can't be undone if we let them go too far. Yeah. Yeah. So do you think it's better to spend the extra maybe $1,000, $20,000 for something that was properly resourced and it's eco-friendly? Or do you think it's better to spend that $1,000 less on something that's probably been manufactured somewhere where it's not been resourced properly and it actually hurt the ecosystem and will continue to? Well, I think if you have the money, some people don't have the money and they can't really help it. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about to a lot of people in the Western world who have enough money to buy the better stuff that's more environmentally friendly. Because if we do that, we will very much increase the demand for environmentally friendly products. And when we increase the demand for environmentally friendly products and lower the demand for the unfriendly products, that will, for one, reduce their price. And then, for two, make them much more common and make the not friendly ones much less common of something that's available. Meaning that if we can get the whole consumerism, all the consumers, to want the environmentally friendly stuff, then that will become the thing that we need and the thing that companies need to build. And when stuff needs to be done environmentally friendly to make the companies more money, then that will create a shift for the companies who don't care. Because they need that to change to make money. And if they don't change, they will lose money. That's the way we have it. One of the ways that is the only way to change the mind for those big businesses. I know companies have been doing this for a little while now. I think it was five, six years ago my family bought an electric mower. The quietest thing ever. Love it. But with this upcoming surge, I know it was more so last year than this year. But with this surge of electric vehicles, do you think this is going to help a lot? I would think so, but I'm not an expert. So I'm just doing what I'm told at this point. Fair enough. But do you think it's hurting more to gather those resources that are used to build the electric car? But do you think in the long term that electric car will be better? I've heard a lot about electric cars not being really much better for the environment. Because we need to find a way to streamline the production of the electric components in a way that makes it more environmentally friendly. Because the way we do it currently produces a lot of bad things for the environment. And apparently the amount of carbon released by building an electric car is almost as bad if not the same as just using a normal gas car. I'm not sure how accurate that is. I haven't done a ton of research on that. But I think streamlining the process of building that in a more environmentally friendly way could be a way that we can make that better. Would not the production of creating a gas car be roughly the same as an electric car in terms of pollution? Probably not. Electric cars are a new thing which means it's a lot harder to build something like that. And gas cars have been a thing for a long time so it's a really streamlined process to build. I think electric cars could become better but we need to get better at building them. I know Tesla has been building electric cars for a while now. That's something they have been proficient in and kind of focused on. But I know it's more so newer for companies like Ford, Toyota, Honda. All those companies are now getting into the game of that. And yes, not only would you save money on gas and other things, but the way that everything is being brought in to make that car is just as bad for pollution and things going into the air. But also, we went over the cause and that's mostly factories, cars, production of items, consumerism essentially. How we can, I guess, why this is going to affect us is because it's hurting our ocean and with the ocean we create an environmental and economic disaster. It would hurt us greatly. Why we need to address this though? I think we came to the conclusion and reasoning though, well, why? Because of what I just said, this cause or the problem is going to make. But now how do we do it? I think it was a good point on what Joshua was saying, was that sharing the documentaries we find interesting with people. Not saying people need to be advocates and environmentalists and go out there. But if you can do something small, like maybe taking a walk instead of driving for five minutes. Maybe biking to school instead of getting a parent to drive you. Exactly. But if you do these small things every day, for a long period of time, it could slow down the progression of our coral dying. And it shouldn't be where we take advantage of animal adaptation and environmental adaptation. And it should be that we need to be grateful for what we have. And once we don't have it, we shouldn't come to the point where we now realize that it's going to hurt us and become a problem. We need to realize that we want it before it's gone. We have so much more of an ability to see how this is affecting the world and how it needs to change now than we used to. We have so much more scientific knowledge and things like that that we can see how this is going to affect the world. And we need to use that to our advantage. Yeah. So, you've been listening to me and Joshua kind of ramble here, Caleb. Yeah. But I wanted to know what are your thoughts on ocean acidification and this whole predicament that the world's in? So, I've been hearing a bunch about what big companies can do and not really much about what an average person can do, who's not an expert on the subject, who doesn't really know what they're doing to the environment. Hmm. So, that takes me a second to think because when it comes down to it, as much as I'd like to say the average person has a lot of say and persuasion, that's not entirely true, but it's not wrong either. Yeah. I would say the average person has persuasion in friend groups. Yeah. If you think something's important to you, I would say tell your friends, tell your family how you feel about this, and from there it's going to travel. Like any kind of gossip, I would say this can progress through people. Yeah. It's a message. And if it's still, like, if you think that what you're doing isn't enough, you can always go to websites, donate money to their cause, support them, do petitions to governments saying, this is something we need to address. I feel like even though you may not think that's, like, the whole show, like, you're not putting on, like, this concert or you're doing this whole presentation to the world, I still think even those can help and actually make a difference. So, anybody I think is willing to put in the work can do these type of things and make a difference in our world for this. There's not a ton of research needed to know more about what's more environmentally friendly, and what you can focus your spending on, and just not spending as much on the new things, because you don't need new things, right? Yeah. So, buying, not buying as much, and using your older stuff to its fullest potential, and maybe even just learning how to fix some things, because there's some simple problems that people throw things out for. Yeah. Maybe just doing a little bit of research on things so you can use your stuff for longer and then not have to spend as much. And then buying clothes and stuff from thrift stores and using stuff from a thrift store. Just things that, for one, can save you a lot of money and can also help the environment. So, I think that's one thing that's really useful. And like Josh said, thrift stores, great idea. Yeah. But if you have a chance with your family, I want to challenge you guys, when a part of your street or maybe your town, if there's a garage sale day with a lot of houses, take a nice walk with your family. Walk around the neighborhood, walk around your town, and then you can buy and reuse items there. It's repurposing. They're not going to go thrown out. And first off, they get money. I know they're going to buy something new with that money. We can't control that. But you can do your part in repurposing and reusing this item. I'm sure if you bought it in the first place, you're thoroughly going to enjoy it for the next year or two. And if you can prolong the use of something, even just for a year or two, that's another year or two that it's stopping you from buying something new. If you can keep buying used things instead of buying new things, that has a large impact in the long run. Exactly. So, all right. I bet you guys are getting pretty bored. We've rambled on for a long time now. I want to say thank you guys for listening. My special guest, Joshua Harder. Give a round of applause to him. Woo! Okay. Thank you, Caleb. And our other special guest, Caleb Claussen. They're both really great friends of mine, and I feel like it's been a great time having you both on the show. Thank you. I would like to say one more time, and I think Joshua can agree with me on this, but Chasing Coral, guys, great documentary. Please do watch. I feel like you're going to have a different perspective when you see this. You'll be opened up to a new world and to what's been happening. And this documentary was actually released, I believe, in 2017? 18? I don't remember. Later 2000s in the teens. But great show. Any last words you two want to share? If there's any teachers out there who are currently teaching high school students, even high middle school students, I would thoroughly suggest teaching your children about this. This is an important topic, and if we can bring up the next generation in knowing this stuff, this would be important. I'm the same to parents. Parents can teach their children, too. Yeah, I would agree with Aidan about that, too. Chasing Coral documentary, really good thing. Watch it with your family. Watch it with your class. Yeah. If you and your friends are geeks like us, no shame. Come on, guys. It's great to be smart. Yeah. Please watch the documentary. Me and Joshua both recommend it, and here I see Caleb nodding his head. Yeah. I think it would be a great watch. See you guys next time. Thank you for listening. Have a great day. Yeah, have a wonderful day. Bye-bye. See you, guys. We're tuning out.