VFC Episode 3 -Veronica Lange

Welcome to the Victorious Firefighter Community, a podcast revolving around the tactics, technology, and captivating stories with expert interviews and engaging discussions. Take a seat, tune in, and welcome to VFC. Alright, welcome back to the VFC podcast. We're here with Veronica Lane, who's a firefighter in Ontario as well for the past four years. She is with the Ombudsman in her department specializing in hazmat and medical. She's also a mentor and instructor at Festy Pre-Service. I'll let her get a little bit more into her background. It's pretty extensive when it comes to being a competitive dancer and working as a first responder in Canada's Wonderland. So, Veronica, welcome to the podcast. Hi, thank you. Thanks for having me. Alright, so let's deep dive into this. So, let's go a little bit into your background. Like I said, your background wasn't always firefighting like myself, so I want to give a quick little synopsis of why fire and why you switched over from competitive dancing. Yeah, absolutely. So, I thought I was going to be a dancer my entire life or getting into the industry of dance studio, dance competition. I went to university for dance for a couple years and, unfortunately, that didn't pan out for me because of an injury. So, I switched it and I took business, again, thinking I would get into that route. And then it was actually brought to my attention about firefighting and I did some deep dive research into it and I did some research on schooling and no one wants to go back to school for a really long period of time. So, I had to kind of figure out the route that I was going to take, but everything just made sense to me. I wanted to do something physical. I wanted to do something that was meaningful. My dad went to college originally to be a cop and he just had that very first responder mentality of he saw someone in need and he would be the first person to stop what he was doing and go and help. So, that was kind of the light bulb that clicked for me in terms of everything just kind of made sense and this is what I wanted to do. So, I went to FESTI for free service and after I graduated, I literally did a 180 degree flip and turned my focus from dance entertainment to fire and safety. So, things like working as a first responder in medical, doing fire and safety at Canada's Wonderland, a large amusement park, and then volunteering. I always tell people that you're going to sit across the table from a chief and say that if you want to give back to a community and be involved, you should have something to show for that. It's not just, you know, you want the t-shirt and sticker with the exclusive time off. So, I set my sights on it and I was a grind for about nine months after I graduated and yeah, I got the opportunity to apply, went through the hiring process and never looked back. Love it. It's a really interesting career. So, what made, I know there was a light bulb moment, like what about firefighting specifically that drew you to it? Because the first responding community is firefighting, POP, CMS. Why firefighting specifically? Because a lot of people change from their careers, including myself, like I was a private investigator for four years, I owned a gym, I worked with him business for a bit and then it's okay, I'm going to firefighting. So, for you, why the switch? What was the light bulb moment that you were like, okay, this specific first responder aspect I want to go for? Yeah, I think it was a combination of seeing all the instructors that I had when I was going through pre-service and then when I was going through the application process of getting hired, I got to go and visit a couple of the stations in my municipality and just seeing the way that everyone interacted and something so simple as, you know, covering the other truck's plate when they go out for a call during Sunday brunch and it was like, they have that much, you know, teamwork aspect for Sunday brunch of having each other's back to cover up their plates, like I can only imagine the bond and the teamwork that they use going out on calls. The other thing that kind of really light bulb moment for me was working as a medical responder and fire and safety, going to calls and feeling like I actually accomplished something and I was part of the solution to something that was someone else's problem, whether it was a medical or responding to just like a simple alarm call at the amusement park. I was there to make a difference and to bring out a positive outcome and to me that was just so rewarding. How does it feel when you go on scene and people come up to you? Kids have always come up to me and like, you know, thank you or they want like one kid wanted to take a picture as we were leaving an alarm. Do you feel like the community revolves around that firefighting department a lot better and like that kind of like elevated, it elevates your mind almost, right? You feel like a piece of accomplishment. Yeah, exactly. I think it makes you feel good, right? No one's expecting to be at work and ask and have someone else to take pictures with them or you're in the middle of trying to, you know, saw someone's cat out of a vent and, you know, the kid comes running down and and they just want to be your friend because you're, you know, this firefighter hero to them. So yeah, that definitely that brings an aspect to it or like you see different emergency services show up at calls and for some reason everyone just gets more excited when firefighters show up. So true. So true. Have you had to tell people like the Chicago Fire is not real life? Like this, oh my god, whatever the most recent patient they've seen, like I'm always getting questions, you know, is this what it's like in the real life? No, not even close, guys. My mom still has her like coffee nights with the dance moms every once in a while. And when I show up, they're all like, oh my god, Veronica, so like, what's the, what's the drama in the fire station now? And I was like, listen, ladies, that is not, that's not what this is, unfortunately. It's nothing like Hollywood. I think I have all of them the closest to the Chicago Fire, but some of the other ones are just, just just out to lunch. Do you ever stay with your crew and watch them and just like pick out all the ridiculous things? A hundred percent. Like something was on the other day of, was on social media, the car was in a building and then it fell out and a guy jumped on the air. The amount of messages I got being like, is this real? No, guys, this is, that guy would be fired because there's nothing securing him through the aerial and I don't know why he's hanging on a car to begin with. This is all Hollywood. This is nothing to show. But yeah, you sit down and watch it and you're like, this is not, why does everyone have beards? No one is shaving. Like that's not, that's not how this works. Not even close. No, no. How did you have to deal from, I don't know anything about competitive dancing, but like I feel like competitive dancing is kind of more solo where it's you against someone else trying to place at a certain level. So how did you translate your mindset from being, okay, I'm going a hundred percent solo to all of a sudden being now a team player? Like what's something you can recommend to people to switch to becoming a team player? Because not a lot of people play well with teams. People are very solo. People do their own thing. We all get into this industry. Let's be real. If you're male or female, we all have that alpha personality. So what's a good trick or what did you have to do personally to switch from being that sole, solo mindset to being a team player? Yeah, it's, it's actually interesting because I am so fortunate for the dance studio I grew up at. It was a very high caliber and they really put the focus on teamwork and it was like, yeah, you can have a solo or you can get, you know, extra choreography, but the main priority and focus was always back to your group numbers and back to that team aspect where you're only as strong as your weakest link. And, you know, nine out of the 10 of you could be the cleanest choreography, but if one person's off, like that is detrimental to, you know, how your performance is going to be. So it was actually quite easy for me because I was already in the mentality of like, the groups are more important, the teamwork's more important, the technique behind, you know, dance is more important. So it was a very easy transition into firefighting where, you know, 24 hours is a very long time if you are not, you know, in that team aspect with your crew and being able to rely on each other and you are only as strong as your weakest link. You know, we go to some calls where we're dealing with the furnace or the water heater and I'm standing there like a bump on a log because that's not my background or my forte, but I really do lean on, you know, the guys on my truck to give me that information and start learning a little bit more about that stuff. So just having that mindset of like continuous learning and never being satisfied with the amount of information you already know. And like for people who are getting into it that maybe are in a little bit more of a solo mindset is just understanding that like you can't do it all. Like when we talk about even, you know, Auto X, even the strongest of dudes, if you're holding that Auto X tool above your head for X amount of minutes, you're gonna burn yourself out and you're gonna get fatigued. Why not lean on your crew members to be able to pass off the tool and kind of get it done a little bit more efficiently rather than just trying to, you know, Hulk smash and prove something that you really don't need to prove. Yeah, it's true. Like it's, you hit the nail on the head where you have to be as strong as the weakest link. Do you ever find like you've had to talk to someone in terms of like, let's do something together to make this individual a little better in the aspect of a career? And like for Auto X, for example, like maybe there's a way to lift the tool better or hold the tool better. Like have you ever run into that kind of confrontation or conflict? Yeah, not so much with my crew. My crew's so great. I have to pump their tires a little bit. They really are fantastic guys and they are so great with helping me out and I feel like I'm the weak link sometimes. But I see it more when I'm teaching in pre-service. You get people that are into it that maybe aren't the strongest, maybe they're a little bit vertically challenged and you really do have to tweak either the instruction or the execution to be able to kind of fit everyone's needs. And we really hammer it home to the classes and the platoons that it is a team environment and you're only as strong as your weakest link. And when you see someone struggling, you have to almost take that initiative to be the leader and, you know, get them back up to speed and kind of bring them to the pace of everyone else. So that's something that we really try to instill in the students to get them prepared. But yeah, I luckily have not had that on the job. My pleasure. I know it's a different departments and different crews and so it's an interesting aspect to kind of think about when it comes to that world and what to do. Do you feel, when you're probie year, do you ever feel like sometimes you couldn't say anything? Oh yeah, absolutely. It's tough because you're one of those like BC not heard as a probie year, but when you're coming into career with such an extensive background from like a construction background, for example, what's something that you feel like, do you think it's valid to say, hey guys, this is what I think we should do? Or is it one of those BC not heard things? I really think it depends on who you're working with, because you have some guys and girls who are great with feedback and how you approach it also I think is important too. Approaching it from like the hello, hi, rather than hey, this is what you need to do. So I think your approach is one thing, but yeah, who you're trying to just communicate with, I think there are still some people on the job that don't want to hear it because you have less seniority than them and they go straight to, you know, this is insubordination because you're speaking out of line. But yeah, I think it depends who you're working with and there are so many guys and girls in my department that are very open-minded to just listening. Okay, yeah, this is true. Like even for our newest guy, he was a nurse and I think he was ER nurse as well. So and again, it goes back to like you said with your crews and I was his mentor and I thought I said to him, like you don't have that much prior experience. Any question you got, I got you. Yeah, medicals, forget your rank. Like yeah, I am backing you up. You have been a nurse for how many years? Like this is your realm. I got you. Like whatever you need, I got it. So I think it's fair to say that, like you said, you need to talk to your crew and be like, look, this is what I think. We can just have the conversation with a person in the backseat. Like this is what I think we could do. Are you okay if I do X, Y, Z, not the whole, I screw you, I'm doing it this way? Yeah, there's definitely been a couple times. So I teach medical on my department. I'm part of our AUSTI program and I actually started doing it right after probation. So here's this probie coming in and teaching these, you know, senior guys medical and that was actually a really tough scenario to navigate because you had some guys and girls who were very receptive and open to learning and then you had some that would rather, you know, go back to their stations and sit in the recliners and wanted nothing to do with what you were teaching. So my approach was always, I'm not telling you how to do your jobs. You guys have been on X amount of years to do that. All I'm doing is relaying information and knowledge to you guys to be able to use, you know, on certain calls. Right. Are you pulling from experience as well when you're teaching? Because you were a first responder at Canada's Wonderland and all that stuff. So is that, I'm sure that must help you pull from experience. Like I've actually done X, Y, Z so I know what works. Yeah, exactly. And it's definitely a little bit of a different beast between the amusement park and there's definitely even just patient interactions of like how your bedside manner is or your patient care is. I definitely try to pull from experience just to kind of level out with the guys and girls. But even when I did my hazmat course, we were doing a practical scenario and there were two options, A and B, to cap this tunner tank. And my partner and I went in and I had, I actually had more seniority and I was making the decision to go with option A and it got kiboshed somehow and he decided to do option B. And I think in that moment I was a little bit, you know, bothered because I was like, did they just not listen to me because I'm a female? Did they not listen to me because they think they have more experience? Did they not listen to me because maybe they just miscommunication and had no idea what we were going to do? But it was actually a very interesting moment for me of like, is this what a more senior person feels like when like I overstep or I have a suggestion that I want to do? So a little bit of a light bulb moment there. How does it play out? Because I feel like you get to have those in a lot of different situations with people, like if you can. Let's talk a little bit more about that because it's very true where you may have the higher rank but the person also may be older than you. So like how do you, did you have a debrief after, like this is where my idea was, this is what I was thinking or was it kind of just that was it and the call ended? Yeah, we briefly talked about it. He actually came over and, you know, kind of apologized because we had, you know, option A set in place. I just kind of chalked it up to, you know, he also had previous fire experience, so I wasn't going to step on his toes and question what he was doing. At the end of the day, we still work together as a team and we got, you know, we got the task done, which in my opinion is really all that matters. Yeah, having a debrief is good, but sometimes it's almost not even worth it as long as the job is done. Right, so I've gotten a lot of questions about being, some along the lines of being like a tactical firefighter, like and that's a very umbrella saying, like tactical is very, like we're not SWAT, like we're not, we're not walking around AKs and M4s and all that shit, so what do you feel like is, like defined as a good tactical firefighter? I would say it's a combination between like always being ready to go, whether that's nutrition or fitness or education, it's just kind of you stay ready, you never have to get ready, kind of, kind of deal of, you know, all those aspects, then regardless of what time of day or what shift you're, you're on, you're kind of ready to go for any situation. So you feel like that's along the lines of like going to get education, like going out of your department, taking those courses, construction, plumbing, electrician, and then like not even fire related, just in general, just being, having the knowledge where you're not stuck on calling me like, I have no idea what I'm doing here. Yeah, so like when I get questions a lot with pre-service students, they say, when I graduate, what courses should I take? Rope rescue, swift water, whatever, and I actually try to gear them more towards construction and small engines and any kind of trades of plumbing, electrical, HVAC, because you can go and do a tech rescue course, you get a rope tech certification, but you haven't used it, you haven't gone and actually gotten the experience, so you have it, great, but if you also get hired on a department that does that discipline, you're going to get that certification through them. So I always try to gear them more towards the indirectly related things to the fire service, whether it's medical or like I said, those, those trades courses too. Basically, we are so many jobs in one. We are truck drivers, we are medics, we are HVAC technicians, we're like counselors, some people just want to talk sometimes. It's true. So I think if you can pinpoint those little trades and get more experience, then yeah, it's totally adding. Yeah, I agree. That's exactly what I tell a lot of people. I tell them to go get a trade. I even tell them, don't even go for the NFPA courses yet, like one and two, like okay, like you have them forever, but you know, there's a guy that got hired as well. He did it almost 12 years ago and then got hired. So like go take some different courses, go learn about construction, go learn about different skills that we may need, especially when it comes to that HVAC stuff, because every alarm is because of an HVAC unit. So go learn about something like that or the steam fitting, like a buddy of mine does plumbing for steam pipes. So really take the time and learn those kind of construction skills and then if you want to learn those skills in terms of the department, in terms of a like a real course, find a job in a real course, like in as stupid as it sounds, but go if you're gonna do a rope, go become a window washer and you're actually using all the rope that you're gonna do on scene in that. So I agree, it's finding ways to take the courses outside of FHIR, but if you take a course in FHIR, get a job in that course. Like don't just take a confined space course and now you're a tech and then your department doesn't do confined, it's just a waste. You look like a pencil pusher on your resume, which no department wants. Exactly, yeah, which is why like everyone normally gets their HAZMAT ops and awareness when they do pre-service. So I usually try and push like HAZMAT mitigation companies, at least you already are getting this certification, go work for somewhere where you're actually going to get to use it and be able to continue pursuing that skill. Yeah. What do you feel like the tactical firefighter is? I'm more on the physical side of things with that, I'm not gonna lie. Okay. Like my tactical side is being physically ready. I try so hard to make the bottle last, but I just, when you're over 200 pounds and with a little more muscle on you, you can't make that bottle last as long as you want it to last. Right. So my mindset is just being the guy that if someone's okay, someone has gone down, I need to go get the person, it's a quick, okay, Victor's going to get him. Like there is not a question, there's a reason why I look heavy for a reason, maybe not the broke split, where it's like a little bit of isolation, I'm not standing there flexing in the mirror, but when it comes to very functional compound movements, like the trap bar deadlifts, squat called the zipper squat, which is great where the barbell is on your, essentially your armpits, you're squatting that way. Anything that's functional in terms of being ready to put a pack on and go. What I tell people for fitness is get your legs really strong and I don't mean sit on a squat or a hack squat, like if you don't, I can't do a thousand step-ups with weight on your back, you're going to die going to high-rise. Like for most of the time, you're not taking the elevator, like it's going to be a construction high-rise, like when I first got on, I like a couple months in, we had to go 22 stories with all of our high-rise packs, construction building, but I was able to do it because it's like, okay, well those are the things I'm going to have to be doing, so I need to make sure my step-ups are good. For myself and not everyone has this opportunity, but I have a couple old MSA and Scott packs that I train with. I got some old fire hose, I made a high-rise pack, got it, so it's always being ready outside of the job. I train harder outside of the job than on the job. It's very just physical side, I want to make that clear. I train very hard on the job, but when it comes to physical side, you can't train too hard when you're working because if you're training too hard when you're working, the fire comes in, you're screwed and then you're gassed before you even get to the call. So I think being a tactical firefighter in terms of the fitness side is, you know, watching your health, watching your nutrition, really focusing on big compound movements. There isn't a big realm for quote-unquote bodybuilding bro splits, but at the same time you do want to have those arm days and those shoulder days. And the reason why I say that is I've heard stories where people are doing overhaul with pipe poles and because you're gripping it so hard, like if you guys ripped your bicep tendon because it's just not strong, but you're yanking on it and then you don't realize you can't open your hand or close your hand because your bicep tendon is gone. So there's a place for the bodybuilding stuff, but be mindful of, it's not the end-all be-all, like you need to work on the compounds, like I said, your grip strength needs to be huge, like that is the biggest thing I think most people should work on because you're going to be carrying tools in a very awkward position for quite a while, you're going to be dragging high ball, dragging 65s, dragging 45s, if your hands are shot and you can't do anything. So tactical firefighting for me is, apart from the courses, is really being ready physically to do the job. And if you're a smaller guy, be the guy where the platoon chief is going to go over to you and be like a girl, go over to you and say, okay I know you can last longest on air, go do XYZ. Or if you're going to be the bigger guy, you are going to go get this person out without question. So I think it's just picking something that you do really well and becoming that person where the department looks at and goes, you're the guy. And that's really the mind of what a tactical firefighter could be. Yeah, just kind of on the same lines of physical fitness, what advice would you give to either a probie or just a regular firefighter that maybe has a couple senior guys or girls or captains that really don't prioritize that stuff anymore and you see the waistband starting to expand. It's tough, like we said, you're the new guy. Like even me now being on almost two years with my department now and then two years with my other department, it's tough because I'm over 30, most of the guys I work with are over 30, so it's not like they're seniors where they're all 50 something plus. So it's tough to kind of go like, hey let's go work out. I think if you find motivation, like a couple guys in my crew now want to start doing summer workouts in the back. So I think it's just finding a group activity. It doesn't have to be like what I do at home, does not have to be translated to the crew. I think it just needs to be like, let's do a crew bonding workout session. And don't push them. I think that's my biggest thing I've had to learn from both departments now when it comes to fitness is not everyone's going to be at your level, so don't assume they're going to be at your level. Don't assume they're going to be able to lift XYZ or be able to do XYZ on air or travel the site. I think it's just finding what works for the crew and just being like, let's do this together. Like let's be better together and making it a group aspect, like a fun activity. Because in our industry it's very common that we are exposed to a lot of different chemicals. We have a lot of heart issues in terms of just the exertion going from zero, aka sleeping. So going 120% out of structure fire at two o'clock in the morning. So prioritizing your health in fitness is huge for our industry. Huge. And being the new guy is tough, but if you look at it in a way where I want to be better with the team, I think that's a good way to look at it and approach your senior guys together as well. And with food, that's a whole other realm. Oh my god, food. My first like year and a half I gained so much weight because of the ice cream. Probably 15, like it's across the board and in any realm. Because you don't want to say no, right? That's what it comes down to. You don't want to be that guy to say or girl and say, no, I'm not going to eat whatever, right? So it's tough, but I think everything in moderation is the best way to do it. Like my crew loves certain treats. We have it all the time, but if you look at it, it's only seven days a month. So you kind of have to give and take here a little bit, but it's all about, so if we're going to talk about it a little bit, like it's all portions. So don't go for that second bowl, right? Have that one bowl where it's more protein and less fats or a little more veggies and be full. Don't go for the second bowl. Because if you go for the second bowl, you're going to probably run into a stretch mark. You're going to be puking in your mask and nobody wants that. Yeah, Sardino's Pizza gets us. Oh my god, Pana Fresco is a bad day. That third slice really puts you over. Yeah, it's funny too, because my captain and I are both very, very picky eaters. So we go through this struggle every shift of like, do you like this? No. Well, do you like this? No. Well, do you like this? And we're like, yeah. And then someone else is like, no. So like, yeah, we have, our thing is we try to go out more to get our meals because most of the guys do their cooking at home. So when they're on shift, this is like, I don't want to do that. Let's, you know, do a team dinner, but like, let's go out and pick it up and come back and like, still hang out. That's the best way to bond. Again, you laugh and talk about stories and things you've done, discussing calls. It's that same where everything is discussed at dinner table. It's so true, for sure. So what's tips for you personally? Like if you go to a severe medical call where there is a lot of trauma, especially even with the younger individuals, what's something you've had to kind of help with yourself to check out when you go back to the station or you go home, the job stays in the door. I get a lot of people ask that or people, I'm sure people ask you as well, like what's the craziest call you've been on? And then you kind of tell them and they're like, what the f**k, like, how are you, how are you sleeping right now? It's like, what's something like personally do to kind of check out at that point? Yeah. A couple of things. At first, a distraction is always my go-to, whether it's a workout or actually we'll sit down at my piano and just like have at it. But then I think there is an important aspect of like actually checking in with yourself and dealing with, you know, whatever you're feeling, debriefs with the crew is huge, so we get back from a call and if I know I'm nervous or anxious about what we saw or what we did, like I'll bring it up and be like, Hey, like, can we just talk about that? Like, what are the good things that we did? What are the things that maybe we could have worked on a little bit? And what's maybe bothering me? Maybe it was something that I saw. Maybe it was the way that I executed, you know, my, my patient treatment, but the debrief, I think is huge just so that everyone kind of is on the same page and understands what you're going through. And then what I think is super important is, is some kind of either counseling or therapy where you can just go and like unpack whatever you're feeling and you're in this safe space and talking about it and you get someone else's opinion, a professional's opinion, but talking about it out loud to yourself, like you're now kind of re-walking through it and the more you talk about it, the more you kind of come to terms with it and you kind of understand, you know, what had happened. You didn't cause the problem. You're only there to make it better. I personally, my dad is like, leave me out of whatever you're going through. I don't want to know about it. I don't want to talk about it. My mom is like, I'm here for you. I don't care what it is. Like, I want to know what you're going through. So she's a really, really great support system for me. Not that I want to, you know, tell her about all the calls and things I saw, but she definitely just cares and wants to know if I'm going through something and that I'm okay. So, yeah, distraction first, you know, a little part of it just to get the brain off of it and then debrief, you know, go, go see a counselor or therapist because we have, we have those benefits, right? So why not use them? Yeah, I think that's, that's true. Do you feel like it's, it's appropriate to go even before you think you need to go and I'm guilty of this, I'll be the first one to admit it, but I feel like the stigma of all that is kind of going to the wayside and there's no longer that I don't want to talk about it. Like it's, it's a good thing to talk about it. So do you feel like it's one of those things where even though before you realize, okay, I need to go talk to someone, you should go have that, like the whole thing was like, is his thing is a checkup from the neck up and like kind of sit down and have a conversation with a professional. Yeah, I think people don't realize the, the what's the word, the impact, the impact that just talking to someone, whether you've been to a bad call or you're literally just talking about your life actually has, because even when I just go in for regular little checkups of talk about my life, I unpack so many things that I didn't know about, or we talk about where certain traits or characteristics I have have stemmed from. And I'm like, wait a second. Like I work myself to the ground because of X, Y, Z. Right. Right. Well, yeah, I absolutely think that even if there's nothing significant that's happened from a call or in your life, like just going to talk to someone and get the ball rolling so that when you do have that call or, you know, you've seen something that starts to bother you, it's not so much of a, like a new thing. You kind of already have broken yourself into it. I think too, it's super important finding a counselor or a therapist that you connect with. That would be my next question. Like it's, I don't want to get too much into it. This is your own, it's your own personal stuff you have with your person, but did you settle with the one person right away or did you take the time and be like, okay, no, this person's not good. I'm going to go to another person and really kind of develop that relationship. So I feel like a lot of people feel like, okay, I've seen one, that's it. Yeah, I know. My original therapist that I had talked to was actually not the one that I'm currently with now. It was during COVID too, a little bit. So everything was virtual and I just, I didn't really feel like I was connecting with her. She had dealt with first responders. So that was kind of what led me to her. But yeah, I just, she did a lot of help and I'll give her credit that I, you know, I felt like I gained something from all those sessions. But my current therapist now, like her and I are on a different level and we can joke and we can laugh and, you know, when it's time to get serious and talk about some of the issues, I feel like I can a hundred percent trust in her. That's good. I think that's great. I think that's something that more people should do, even outside of firefighting. Like if just having that, the third party to talk to, because everyone has a bias, you know, like even my wife, like sometimes I can't say some things or I shouldn't say can't, I can, but there's a bias in terms of what someone, my story or what her story or et cetera. So having that third party to really be like, no, this is happening because of X, Y, Z, or this is happening because of something that's happened in the past. I think it's a very valid thing to have this day and age, especially with how the calls are starting to change and what we're seeing. So I think it's, anyone out there, like just go talk to someone, like it's fine to be a professional. And to be honest, even if your benefits don't cover it, like I'm speaking from me, like, and it's different in terms of physio, but I've spent that money to make sure I'm physically ready for this. So if you don't have benefits, I know it's more expensive than physio, but it's worth going to talk to someone and having that conversation to make sure you're healthy going into this. And to pivot going into this, what are some things that you could help people to prepare for this? Because there's people that can't handle paper cut, let alone bleeding excessively from the arm. So what is something that you've had to overcome if you didn't care to, or if you cared to begin with, to see those type of things on calls and be like, yeah, this is a lot of a job to do? Like, is it, does it feel like there's a stepping stone you need to do? Or is that one of those things where if someone says that, well, I can't handle blood and this job is not for them? Right. I think it's two-parter a little bit. You have to have a little bit of self-awareness and some initiative to look inward and go, this is all the aspects of this job. Like, am I going to be able to handle it? You know, we get some students that come through programs who are afraid of heights and like can't climb a ladder. And it's like, you need to have a little bit of a sit down with yourself and go, these are the potential situations. I could be on an aerial or a ladder truck. I have a job to do. Is this something that I can overcome? And we had a student that would eat her lunch on like the fourth story of the rescue tower every day because she wanted to overcome that fear of heights. Yeah, so it's definitely people are capable of overcoming those things. It depends on what if they want to or not. Smells and gags for me. Some of the smells are, they're, yeah, yeah. That's something it wasn't. It's not too bad because like you wear a mask, so, you know, the patient or the family members can't see that you're trying to hold back your own gags. But yeah, something like that, it's like, how do I overcome, you know, not gagging to the smell of barf, right? Right. Or just it comes with the job and you just have to be able to to work through it. And, you know, you can have your dark humor and joke around with the guys on your crew later about it. But yeah, there's definitely an aspect of here's all the aspects of this job. Can I, is this something I can overcome or is it just something that it's who I am? Right. That's good. I think it's you need to have that hard conversation with yourself that, OK, can I do this? Because like I said, most people come up to me like, well, how do you see X, Y, Z? But there is a lot of people that can't even handle the mask where you put that mask on. And there's statistics you cut by air by twenty five to thirty percent that you're breathing in, even with a bottle of air going into you. So I tell people to get elevation mask and, you know, train with that. And not to say that if you can't really, you can't become a firefighter. But the more you train with, at least you become aware of what it feels like because you can't rip this thing off. Like you're that's your lifeline. So be able to at least walk around and do stuff with it. The adrenaline will kick in and you'll forget you're wearing a mask from experience because you kind of do you do those trainings or calls. And it's like, oh, I forgot I even have this mask on my face. Right. Because it's like sometimes you just can't handle it. But you're like, OK, well, I can't take this off. But the adrenaline is gone. You go on. You're just ready to go. Yeah. If there's one thing I can tell students that come through is it's get comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah. That's what a lot of this job is. You know, fires in the middle of the summer where you're wearing a snowsuit basically and working for X amount of minutes or hours talking to patients at a medical call. If you're not comfortable with that, like get comfortable being uncomfortable because, you know, you go to Susie Sally's house where she's this sweet little 90 year old who is just having a little trouble difficulty breathing. And as a firefighter, there's only so much we can do. And at some point, you're literally just socializing with her while you're waiting for the medics to get there. And if you're not comfortable doing that, get comfortable. If you're not comfortable working with others or cooking or, you know, going into people's houses, you're not comfortable with any of that stuff. That is what this job is. And so I try to hammer that home with with students where, you know, they're tired or they're exhausted or they don't want to fold tarps today. And it's it's all comes with it. Yeah. That's the best way to describe it. Like you're not going to get a fire in perfect weather. You know, you got to be uncomfortable in this job. This is this is the definition of being uncomfortable. Exactly. You do a lot of stuff with guys with pre-service. So I'm sure girls, I keep forgetting to say girls, but we're going to pre-service. And I'm sure they ask you, because my story is a little different as well. So like what's what are some of the ways the paths you took to become a firefighter? Because it wasn't the original plan for you, just like me. So what were some of the routes that you did that other people could possibly do that similar? Yeah. So, like I mentioned, getting some kind of responded medical experience. It's great to go through your EMR and you beat the sheet of your primary, secondary, all that stuff. But it is very different the first time you run a medical call and your brain is scattered between your primary and secondary and what you should be doing. So definitely medical. We run a lot of medicals in my department, so I would hammer home going out and getting comfortable talking to patients and providing that care. The other thing that I really tried to do was find some kind of fire experience directly related to firefighting, whether that's a volunteer fire department, which I had done for the fire and safety at Canada's Wonderland, which I always, you know, try and advertise for people to go in and get experience at. They do so much. It's such a broad job description. You respond to any fire calls, you respond to medicals, you're dealing with like the ride evacuation stuff, you're getting a little bit of like mechanical background, you're doing prevention and sprinkler checks and inspections. So it really is such a well-rounded experience. That I was like, I have to have to do this, get this on. And then volunteering, like I mentioned, whether it's within your local community of food banks or shelters, Meals on Wheels, getting out there and getting involved and committing to it, not just, you know, one off showing some kind of commitment that you want to do it for the right reasons. And then volunteer side experience. I always try to give the advice to people to sell yourself as wanting to be that tactical firefighter and continue your learning journey, because they're going to look at your resume and they're going to see that you did pre-service. They're going to ask you your short term and your long term goals. And if you're going to sit there and say, yeah, I want to become a career firefighter, they're trying to invest this time and money and training into you. They don't want you to just, you know, leave after two or three years because you got you got hired career. So it's selling yourself and wanting that training and continuing to run calls. Some people come to pre-service for four weeks in person. And you're not going to master a skill. You're not going to master forcing a door. You're not going to master hose movement in four weeks. So becoming a volunteer firefighter is such a great opportunity to continue that learning, continue getting your hands on those tools and running calls and starting to work with guys and girls of different backgrounds and get into that team aspect. Do you feel like for volunteers, because I've been asked this as well, is like, do you feel like people should do anything and everything or focus on something that's a little more fine tuned in terms of like something you're passionate about? Yeah, I would say it depends on like what your background already is, because I had zero firefighting background. I was like, let me do everything that I can do. Let me throw myself into it. That's classic Veronica. So I was like, let me do everything I can, every opportunity that comes my way. I'm going to do it along with like that, getting involved with your community, volunteering, reaching out to departments and their programs. So many departments do summer events where they're always looking for volunteers and they thrive on those pre-service graduates. But actually, a student asked me the other day, like, when should I start doing my OSAI or when should I start applying? And it's honestly wherever you feel like you are in terms of like your readiness. If you have kind of trades background or you have some kind of medical experience, then like you're already kind of in a good spot. But if you feel like you need a little bit more or you're not quite ready to, if you got hired tomorrow and start running calls, you want a little bit more experience. So I think it brings it back to that self-awareness and taking the initiative to kind of look inward and say, OK, where am I at? Because there's people that get into it, you know, for the time off and the t-shirt and the sticker on your car. And I don't think they're quite prepared for what actually happens when they when they hit the floor. Right, right. I agree. I agree with that. It's a very, very accurate statement. It's tough to, you know, really put a lot of work in and have that that on just to see that, you know, the person got on and it's tough because sometimes they're not as motivated as they once were. So I think it's definitely important for everyone to really focus on yourself, especially in the first couple of years, especially in your career, to really just, you know, be that person that people can count on. So people ask all the time, you know, what's I'm sure they ask you as well for the career, what's the best thing or what you should do? And it's different from everyone. But at the same time, you need to kind of stand out as a good, trustworthy firefighter. That's that's my I think it should be. Yeah. When you were switching kind of your career path, what did you feel like was important and kind of a priority for you getting into fire? So when I switched, like, you know, my background is like a complete 180. Like I said, I was a private investigator for four years. I worked fraud. I worked cheating cases. I did all that type of stuff. Surveillance because of my original plan was a cop. And then I smartened up. No offense to all my cop friends, but smartened up. I went to become a firefighter instead. And my big why, why I got into firefighting was the job is never the same. I am not that nine to five person where I sit down and type out sheets and spreadsheets and the job I need to be moving. I need to be doing something different where we work 24 hours. So there is an ongoing job where we sleep. But like, yeah, like we need to sleep. Like we're on call for 24 hours. There's days where, you know, we're up all day and night. It has been a couple of shifts where a couple of guys have been up for 24 hours just because of the call. So there's nothing wrong with taking that nap. And statistics shows we should be taking a half an hour now, especially in the afternoon, because we could go from zero to 100 in a span of minutes. For me, it was understanding to be mentally and physically ready for the job. I sat down with a buddy of mine who's on another fire department as well. And he laid out what the job is like and what you would be doing. And I just I just fell in love with it. And I was coming from the physical, the P.I. side, and then I had a gym and I was in the fitness and health industry. It was I know it was a no brainer for me. And just the calls and what you could be doing. And again, circling back to there's all different kinds of first responders. But, you know, from going a cop to fire, like first responders go to everything. Like we see EMS cop a fire on the call, but fire is still doing most of the work. Like fire is out on the ground, boots on the ground, going in, going out. What can I do here? We have to be the jack of all trades. And you never stop learning. You stop learning. You're dead, for lack of better words. But it's true. You can't stop learning in this industry and even outside of the industry. You know, the studies of what it's like with PFAS and what it's like running with gear and your heart elevation and really deep diving into all that. The whole blanket of firefighting was just something that I knew I wanted to get into for me in terms of courses. I wanted to get courses, like I said before, where they relate to the departments. So I did get some awareness courses, which is good and bad, depending on what you ask. But at least with awareness, you have some of the tools in your pocket where if you go to a scene, you remember what some of the things were that you needed, like rope, for example, or auto X. So I kind of took some a little more awareness courses than others. Some people did get ops and tech, but my mindset was at least if I have awareness, I'm going into a recruitment or a department with a little bit of an understanding. I'm not going into it blank. You have to be putting your feet. Thankfully, I've always been a quick learner, but I think it's just being understanding that there's just so much into this to at least have a basic understanding of kind of what's going to be happening. For me, it was my biggest motivation to get into this and biggest thing that I did. I really had to focus on not one thing. I had to focus on everything. I need to go get that EMR course and then work some medical stuff and then understanding the basis of what it's like. And even though, like you said, we can only do so much because we're not the highest medical authority on scene, but the department is up for it. I had to help the medics do IOs. I had to help do IV. I had to help all do those other things and put in the King LT into the throat. Like I've had to do all that stuff at my other department. So I had to understand the basics of that because you just never know what you're going to be in. Right. So I think that was my biggest thing is understanding the job is everything. And you got to be understand the basics of what everything you're going to be doing. Get the basic understanding of what the job is going to be like and then pick some things wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with becoming a tech, but you're going to be a tech at a job in that. But for the average Joe, get some awareness courses, go get rope from Home Depot and practice your knots at home. Like it was extra stuff that I'm sure you did as well as I had to do a home that when I got hired, the job became easier. Oh, yeah. I built myself a roof prop in my backyard. I need to I need to be good at this. There's just no option. Yeah, no, it's for sure. A wide, wide variety. But then there's also like, did you ever have a moment where you were like, my reputation is quite important because and your reputation starts when you're a student at Festy and the things you do, good or bad, can follow you into your department. And before I had hit the floor, people knew all about my dance background. People knew all about me already. You will have a reputation before you even hit the floor. And when things happen, both good and bad, it it can spread like wildfire. So I really try to not scare the students. I try to just make them very aware that like what you do here can follow you. And I've seen it where students have done things in school and it has followed them to their department. And it's like building your reputation from the get go, being respectful, following that paramilitary, looking the part, looking professional, tucking your shirt in, like all that stuff. It all it all is a small puzzle piece to the big picture of who you are in the fire service. Right. Yeah. And you need to think bright, like you need to be bright in what you're doing and what you're becoming. And like you said, it doesn't start day one from a recruitment on a department. It starts at a pre-service, whether it be Festy, Southwest, Texas. Like there's there's a handful out there or different colleges like Seneca, for example. So the instructors are all guest instructors for the most part. There are some guys that are really internal, but there are guest instructors that come from these departments and they are looking at you to be like, hey, is this person going to fit? Well, am I going to see this person in six months? I interview and going, I remember this person, but not for a good thing. And I think if you want to touch on this as well, because you have a very good reputation, it is nearly impossible to change it. So at the same time, if you do have a bad reputation, you almost need to go out of your way to be like, OK, no, this is not me. It was a situation. So all you need to push yourself almost beyond the part of just kind of being seen, not heard to make sure people know you're reliable. Yeah, 100 percent. I think one of the best ways you can do that, especially earlier on in your career, if you feel like you need to change that reputation is getting involved, whether it's with department stuff, you know, becoming an OSCE, getting the guys and the girls on the floor to get to know you and see your face and really help them understand the type of person you are and you're trying to be or getting involved with like your union, Honor Guard, volunteering. I think the easiest way to break like the rumor mill is to just show your truth and show who you actually are. And if you're genuine, you should have no problem doing that. I think it's a little bit tougher to get rid of a reputation if something happens later in your career. Everyone already knows you. Yeah, yeah. So it's important to keep everything, you know, it's clean all 30 years, 25 years, whatever it may be in the entire time, like without without a doubt. And if you go from one department to another, it doesn't mean reputation ends. You certainly like you are coming from another department that someone knows someone from the department. So keep your nose clean, go into this the right way and really just focus on being a good firefighter and reliable firefighter. Yeah, absolutely. So to close this out, what I'm trying to do with this podcast going forward is I want to ask questions for guests to ask themselves. So the question is, if you had the ability to go back in time and tell yourself something on day one of your pro year, what would it be? Day one of my pro year. I would say everything in moderation and portions. Honestly, that's what I would say, because I think I was at a very slow station my first six months, and I think I got into some routines that maybe weren't weren't the most efficient or the best practices. And you know what? I did put on some weight and I did lack in that physical fitness. And I would say if I could go back to just be like focus on the whole tactical firefighting and the whole blanket of everything that we do and less on the ice cream at night. It is a great answer. And you know what? You get so caught up in the hustle and bustle of being a firefighter and one of us and all these things of like pizza nights and brunch and all those fun things, which are fun. You know, it's a team building aspect and you're the camaraderie with the guys and the girls. But yeah, don't lose sight of the health aspects and the physicality that you still need to keep up with. Thank you again, Veronica, for coming on to the podcast. Hope you guys enjoyed this. Oh, thanks for having me.