Episode 1: Maah Daah Hey Marathon Race Review

The Strike Twice Running Podcast discusses Hunter Flynn's experience at the Matahe Trail Marathon in North Dakota. The race takes place on a 144-mile trail in the Badlands. It is a challenging race with varying terrain and temperatures. The trail is well-maintained by the Save the Matahe Foundation, which mows the trail and fixes erosion. Hunter talks about his training and race strategy, including using a different hydration pack and shoes during the race. He plans to increase his training mileage and focus on nutrition for future races. Hey guys, welcome to the Strike Twice Running Podcast. Join me, Hunter Flynn, and Trace Mollick for episode number one where we hit the road for a race review in the Badlands of North Dakota. That's right, we'll be discussing my experience at the Matahe Trail Marathon in Medora, North Dakota. Let's get started with that. First of all, Hunter, just tell me, because I've never been to it, just tell me, you know, tell us all about what the race is, what it's called, the distance, and just kind of, yeah, the terrain, all that, the whole kind of lowdown of the race itself. So it takes place on the Matahe Trail, which is in the Badlands of western North Dakota. Basically, the trail is 144 miles extending from about Wofford City to just south of Medora. So you get grasslands, you get badlands, you get the middle of nowhere. So during the first weekend of the race series, they do the 5k, 10k, half marathon, marathon, 50 miler, 75 miler, and 100 miler. And then the next weekend, they do all those races again, but they do the bike races. So it's really two big weekends out of the year. And again, you're going through badlands, grasslands, so most people think of North Dakota as flat, but if you've ever been to western North Dakota, you know that it is not flat out there. You're up and down through creek bottoms, on top of buttes, you're watching out for cactus, rattlesnakes, buffalo even. So it's really pretty rugged. The course is beautifully maintained. The Save the Matahe Foundation, which is ran by Nick Ybarra out of Wofford City, he has volunteers every year and they go out and they mow the trail. They fix places where it has been eroded away. We got a lot of moisture in the spring, that late snowstorm in April, so the grass was like four feet tall in some places. You couldn't even find the trail. So the week before, a couple weeks before those races, the Save the Matahe Foundation goes out and they mow a hundred miles of trail. So a hundred miles on one side of the trail, they turn around and mow a hundred miles the other side of the trail. So they put in so many hours just to make these races worthwhile and I mean the trail conditions were awesome and it was it was a little warm. I think I crossed the finish line and it was about 104, so it was it was hot, but I was prepping for that. So a little sunburnt, but not too bad. So I had heard that they go out and mow it. So is it just they just get on a riding lawnmower or what? Do they have like one of the industrial size ones and they just mow a hundred miles or how do they do that? Well they got a, it's a push mower, but it's like a bit, if you can picture like just the most industrial push mower you've ever seen with a big brush guard on it and all that, I think they have two of them now. But originally it was just Nick and he went because he wanted to bike it. He's a mountain biker and he started just mowing the trail and maintaining that trail for so him and other people can enjoy that trail. So yeah, they spent about two weeks starting like the second week in July and then all the way up until the race weekend. They are camping, they're out mowing, they're out fixing trails, they're you know putting in new posts and stuff like that. So I mean none of the races out there would be possible without Nick Ybarra and that Save the Monahay Foundation. So I mean it's made me want to go out and volunteer because I've ran it on that trail before it was mowed and then after. It's nine days so it's definitely a good thing they're doing out there. Yeah, I mean huge shout out to them. I wasn't, you know, I never quite make the summer series. I'm not back in town by the time the summer series kicks off but you know I was lucky enough to go to the mud run, the Teddy Roosevelt, the mud run last year which we'll do another video on that and do a review on that. But in short, just yeah great conditions, awesome course, always makes it fun, always has, you know, always seems like there's some sort of surprise. You know, it's always something good and but yeah huge shout out to those guys at the Save the Monahay and all that. Definitely check their stuff out. They've got some awesome gear too and it's all for a really, really good, really good reason. And I know like you said, Nick is just the amount of time he puts into it is outstanding. It's amazing. So awesome. Well we'll jump back in and see here. Got another couple of questions. So the coming up to the race with it being the full marathon, you know, obviously we were distance runners but we never were marathon guys or training for the marathon anyway. You know, what was your plan going into the race? How did you see the race going and kind of what was your game plan going into it? Well I mean first of all, I mean we ran 5k, 10k, you know, 8k kind of stuff in college. Pretty familiar with those distances but you know I was kind of a lower mileage guy. You started to excel at that lower mileage kind of stuff. More higher intensity, lower mileage kind of thing is kind of what our program was through Shane Wickup. So that's kind of what we knew and my senior year my coach was like, hey you want to run the half marathon in Billings? I was like, okay whatever. You know I was probably on 25 miles, 30 miles maybe and then I go run a half marathon and I bet my longest run leading up to that was like 8 miles or something. Yeah I think maybe had one 10 mile or 11 mile day or something but it got cut short because of the weather. Yeah so going into that I was ill-prepared. I felt pretty decent up until about 10 miles and then things just really went downhill for me just because I'd never raced that distance. I had never really trained much over 10 miles so I had a not great experience there. So you know leading up to the marathon I knew one I was gonna have to put in a lot of work. I was gonna have to put in that miles and then the biggest thing is I didn't know if my body was capable of competing for 26 miles. So I went into it with basically no expectations. I had some small goals time wise and you know things like that but the biggest thing was you know train so that my body felt good. That was the biggest thing is I wanted to be as healthy as I could and then just be conservative. The first half of the race I knew through 10 miles I could not I wasn't gonna push myself you know I wasn't gonna risk the rest of my race because I knew eventually it was gonna hurt. I didn't know when I knew it was going to. Went out pretty conservative super controlled through 10 miles. Made a pretty big move between 10 and 18 really opened up a little bit started to push myself felt really comfortable and then of course you hit about that 20 miles and any runner will know that's you know in a marathon that's where you kind of start to hurt and went through some cramping and stuff and the course was pretty difficult the last 10k. So you know I kind of struggled through the last five six miles but you know I finished it and I got done and I sat down and had had a beer and I felt fine you know so it was it was a it was a good good eye-opening thing for me to know that I can do that I can race that distance so the next year I'm really gonna step up my training because I know I can handle the mileage and then kind of change my race strategy to be a little bit more a little bit more aggressive next year so. Okay yeah and see that that's something that I feel like we run into a lot is you know that that competitive part never really turns off even when we're done with college running when we're done that that part of your brain doesn't really have an off switch so as soon as it's like you know you're on the line and it could be a fun run a 5k fun run somewhere and you know for us fun is like you have it in your brain you're like all right we gotta go and compete you know it's like when you you know when you spend your whole most of your life on a bus driving to or from a race you know and kind of your whole goal is to run with all your you know all your buddies and and get there and compete I feel like that's something that is such a weird transition when you get done is kind of finding running again in a different you know in a different light and still being able to go and compete and run these races you know and be competitive because that's fun too is you know being competitive and being in these races is a lot of fun but you know it's it's been one of those things I know I've struggled with too is kind of finding that balance of like all right you know when we're standing on the line it's like you get that far away look in your eyes like ready to roll and and you know then the next thing you realize like oh that's right like I didn't really train that much for this I'm not a college runner anymore I'm not competing anymore so I know that's something that we personally have talked about a lot but you know for anybody watching that was a was an athlete to at any level probably has a little bit of that for you college guys that ran you know let us know I'm sure you guys feel the same thing it's just kind of like how long did it take you guys to kind of transition back to being a runner again or finding running again because I know you know we talked about it for me it took kind of I got rid of my watch I mean I just wouldn't wear it anymore and I just stopped recording everything I stopped recording how long I was out for no times no distances no pace I got rid of everything and I just kind of ran until I enjoyed it again and then started training again and that was kind of how I had to get back into it you know so that competitive part of the first 10 miles you know being able to switch that off and kind of have to hold back is that was that something that was really challenging in the first 10 miles to do or well yes and no like you get that antsy feeling that you do in a race where you're like I go I feel too good yeah like I'm not pushing hard enough you know looking at the time and you know maybe I was a little bit behind where I was thinking you know kind of some different things I kind of gave a window for each checkpoint I think there was a checkpoint at 10 and then 19 so I kind of gave some windows where I would be at those checkpoints and maybe I was a little bit behind but like I knew you know I knew I had to be conservative and I knew I couldn't get antsy before 10 miles because there were still 16 plus miles left of racing so in that aspect it was it was easy because I in my head I was like okay I have to do this or the rest of my race is gonna suffer but then again you start racing and somebody goes by you and you're like okay like I got to go I want to go with them you know kind of thing so it was definitely I was kind of fighting that a little bit but now that I know how beneficial that was to hold back a little bit like I think it'll be easier in the future but yeah it's it's been hard to find a different way to release that competitiveness because the second I got done with college running we started the Dickinson running club in Dickinson and our goal was to find people that matched our intensity and love for running and it turns out the general public does not have that intensity and passion about running that we did so I quickly found out that you know the maybe the beginning beginner runners would be turned away by our intensity and our goals and what we wanted to do and so the running club numbers fluctuated a lot at the beginning because we were we we had just come off college running the highest level that we had been at and the general public couldn't match that and they didn't want to match that you know and the biggest transition for me is it was one crappy day last winter when we were out running in the snow and ice and we were you know every run before that since since college was okay we got to run under seven minutes around that seven-minute mark for our easy runs and then if we're working we're going to be around that six or less per mile so we were running in the snow and cold and we're looking at the watch we're like ah we're just not running fast at all and then something just clicked and it was like okay we're good like we don't have to run all to the walls every single day there's zero pressure it is the middle of winter we are just adults out running like we weren't training for anything so it was this really huge moment in my running career where I was okay with running a little bit slower I was okay with okay the weather's crappy or my body doesn't feel 100% I'm going to take it easy today you know you didn't really have that option in college so that was the biggest thing in my running career as I learned that how to be a different runner and since then you know I did my entire training cycle leading up to the Montehay Marathon and just so happy with how running felt to me because I didn't have somebody barking at me for times you know it was completely based on how I felt and I kept mentally healthy and physically healthy and so I was really really happy with that and my running career is definitely hit that next step just because I kind of let go of some of those internal pressures that I put on myself yeah I'd say that's a good that last one was a really good way to put it just like that internal pressure of like one day one day it clicks and you realize like why am I doing that so what there's no reason for me to do that you know especially with running like you know like you're talking about with with the running club it's like yeah running is just like meant to be you know enjoyed and if you know somebody in the public was just enjoyed being there and and running one way or another it didn't really matter it's like it was just good that they were there like getting you know that's kind of a huge thing is just to get people out and running and and kind of falling in love with running in their own way to you know super important so yeah it definitely you know it takes a little time to take a little time to like to find that again or to realize that anyway so I guess jumping back in having said all that talking about your training and talking about kind of your plan going in you touched a little bit on it about how kind of how you feel that it went but looking back on it now and obviously training for it again coming up this summer what is what are the things you're going to change not only with your training but with your your pack your gear you know that type of stuff what's something looking back is like how do you feel that plan went how was it executed and what's the stuff you're going to change next year that specifically for this race they're going to help you oh yeah I'll talk I'll touch on gear and kind of nutrition stuff because I think that's important training for the race last year I ran with the not a not a racing vest but a little bit I'll say bulkier of a racing vest that carry more stuff just goes kind of an entry-level Nathan running vest and it had the two bottles here I think they were 10 ounce 16 ounce something like that and I trained with those and I really liked them but I didn't train with them full and then one of the training runs right before I think it was maybe our 20-mile or a big key workout before before the race I ran with two full bottles right here on my chest and it was super uncomfortable it felt like carrying around a pair of double D's on my chest you know like it was it was super uncomfortable and it was like a couple you know pretty close to the race and so kind of a last-minute thing I did was I took out the bottles and did a camelback style water bladder and that was absolutely amazing to put that weight onto my back you know instead of that weight kind of pulling me forward so I really like that that worked great there was like a little rubber you know on the camelback a little rubber mouthpiece thing yeah I ended up biting that off and shoving it in my pack because I couldn't get enough water through it okay so you know little things like that but in general I ran the first part of the race in Saucony Paragon 12s trail shoes really sturdy grippy like perfect trail shoe I would say they're more for maybe a rockier course this this course was a single track and it was all dirt pretty much 99% was dirt so I didn't really have that problem with grip but I really liked those shoes and then I changed it after that second checkpoint about mile 19 and the only reason why I changed was because we went through a couple water crossings and so at mile 19 I got a fresh pair of shoes I switched to the Hoka Clifton 8s which aren't a trail shoe at all but they were absolutely so comfortable you know after you run 19 miles on the trail in in sturdy trail shoes and you switch to a pair of Hoka's it felt like running on a cloud so that was kind of a big mental boost for me and my feet so I did that as far as kind of footwear is concerned I would probably do the same thing again next year maybe switch out that the the Hoka's for maybe a different maybe kind of a trail style Hoka you know and kind of still get that that cushion and that comfort but you know I knew that that my pair of Hoka's wasn't really a trail shoe but like I said I went I went for comfort the second part of the race which honestly I really liked so I might do that again training wise we really I mean only hit 30-40 miles maybe 50 one week and like I said we were just kind of going off a feel really trying to ease into it so we didn't over train just because I wasn't sure how my body was gonna handle the mileage and and that so next year I would like to hit about 60-70 mile range really try to do a full-on marathon program because I know I can do that now so that's kind of that'll be the biggest change is trying to work that into the schedule is hitting you know a couple 10 milers a day if I have to you know if I have to 20 miles one day off to do it you know and stuff like that so the the training aspect will change quite a bit but I tried to get out on the trail as much as I could which I'll probably try to do even more we're only about what 35 minutes from from the Matahe trail here in Dickinson so super easy yeah so that'll be a big thing that'll be a big emphasis for next year is getting on that trail as much as I can and I'll try to do my longest run whatever whether it's 20 22 24 or something like that I'll try to do that on the trail to really simulate that that race and stuff so we'll tweak training and basically we're just going to ramp it up for next year now we know kind of what to expect nutrition hydration all went really well I knew that with the heat I mean I think when we started at 8 a.m. it was 85 degrees maybe so there was really no there was no relief from it at all from the start so the week leading up you know extra hydration electrolytes chicken broth all that kind of stuff leading up to the race and the day of I had in my camelback I did water and electrolytes and then at each checkpoint I would get that refill line and you know chug chug a half a coke and then get some Gatorade water in as much as I could keep down without wanting to throw it all up so I would say I did really good on hydration maybe the nutrition lacked a little bit but you know it's so hard to eat when it's that hot and you're running that far you know your stomach just it just starts to turn eventually so I felt pretty good but I knew that you know I'm gonna experiment with trying to get more food in me but hydration kept me kept me alive that whole time for sure yeah and you know nutrition is I think any distance runner would probably say nutrition is probably one of the hardest if not the hardest thing to figure out the only way to know is to eat different stuff try different stuff while you're on your runs but you kind of have to do it over the course of you know if you're gonna run a marathon okay well your nutrition is kind of you know it's gonna be more relevant the higher distance you're training it and you can get a better feel for that type of stuff but you know if you go out and you have something and it totally doesn't work for you you know your body just it's it's not what you know your body doesn't like it and you can't really run well on it that is just one of those things that's like dang you know you kind of run the risk of okay that ruined the run I got through half of a training run you know it's one of those things that can kind of screw with your training cycle and it's just a it's also a big mental you know big mental barrier too I know in in races past I've struggled with that too and it's kind of a you know rule of thumb with those just like if you can eat it eat it like if it goes down like it doesn't really you know if your body operates on it and that's fine like go for it you know like you know Courtney do alter like she always talks about how she's like yeah if I you know usually in the middle of the race she's like I need some friggin candy you know yeah like and that's like somebody who clearly like she knows what the heck she's doing out there you know she's she's no joke so it's just kind of encouraging to see stuff like that cuz you're like all right well if it works it works you know so I know that's something that kind of drew me in this last summer kind of training was starting to do some longer runs with Ray our third guy so when I was back home Ray and I were doing some training runs and I was running with a bigger kind of more packed you know bag and was training with a lot more gear because I was training for a race that was coming up that I was going to need to carry a lot of stuff it was pretty much self-supported over the course of a day so I was gonna have to train with all this stuff and get used to being heavy and kind of know how that's going to go so it was you know Ray and a couple other guys that we run with always liked when we go on runs together because I was like the snack guy like my bag was just totally packed it was like we get you know we'd run up to some lake somewhere and we we'd sit down at the lake and it's like all right like you know throw throw the blanket out like it was a full on like we had you know always always get the snacks going but so you were the pack meal for the I was for the group I was a snack guy it cool cuz Ray Ray would tell you to he is he under packs like dangerously under packs and I way over pack so it's like it's funny because you know then by the by the end of it I'm like oh thank God like Ray eat some of this so I can get out some of this weight you know and so but that's kind of that's kind of one of the things that that's really awesome with like long-distance running when you can kind of ditch the the paces and just run on feel and get some water runs in if you are running and you just realize like stop where you are yeah yeah you can't can't really do that during a college 10k on the track so yeah I've never once stopped in a car to get a snack yeah so all that stuff you know kind of looking forward to your you know putting into your plan coming up this year with with that all wrapping up kind of what's your your overall thoughts on the race just like you know kind of rate it you know the feel of the race the atmosphere and just kind of how it was put together you know is that a race you would definitely hoping to keep doing in the future and yeah just kind of elaborate on that and just kind of give an overall review of what you thought you know how the race how the race went as a whole oh yeah I mean I love I've learned to really appreciate the North Dakota Badlands you know being from Montana you grew up with the mountains and I feel like that's a little bit unfair because your expectations of the outside world are up here and then you go anywhere else basically and it's you you're not five minutes away from a mountain lake no or you know you can't just go run into the mountains or you can't go fish in the river that's right by well you know for a trail running means something totally different exactly yeah so that as I've been in North Dakota more we went to college here this is going on like the sixth year that I've been here you know I've learned to you got to find those little gems and the Montehay Trail in general in the North Dakota Badlands are a gem and it's the best that the state has to offer and it is truly incredible like if you're ever in this area like it's worth driving through Medora and both the north and south unit of the park you know and I think I took the took Montana for granted and then was like okay North Dakota has nothing to offer but definitely dead wrong there I spent a ton of time last summer training out in the Badlands absolutely loved it just the simple fact of some guy and a couple volunteers going mo a hundred miles of trail makes you want to run that every year because they do all that work for us you know and they do that work so that you know hundreds of people can go run a bike on that trail every year so it's the mission behind it is amazing you know and without without that save the Montehay Foundation I don't think that trail would exist anymore sections of that trail disappear every year you know with just how how erosion is so powerful in the Badlands and stuff you get it you get a wet the wind is relentless out there too yeah so you erodes away everything yeah so I ran sections this summer before they went and cleared everything up where you would be running on a trail and then you would make a corner and you're like where'd the trail go you know it was it was definitely one of those things so powerful to see the before and after the save the Montehay Foundation does a really good job of hosting they do really good they always have live music at the awards they do a really good job at the at the aid stations you know I'll give it I'll give it a 10 out of 10 just because it's my first one first you know it's kind of my entrance into the ultra running trail world all that so you know I'll always remember that I'm gonna run it next year got a few people that are gonna run it with us so we should have a pretty good showing at it you know I I love my experience there and I'm absolutely gonna run it again awesome yeah absolutely I think you know I think the Badlands kind of they are like you're saying that hidden gem it's like they until you go there you have no you have no clue there's no really nothing does it justice until you get there and then it's it is it's one of those places it's like all right like that that was one of the first places for me to like you're saying that when you leave Montana you got to find something somewhere that's like gonna bring you back to that trail running feel and that kind of that kind of vibe and it's like yeah that that area out there is just I mean if you wanna if you want to go get a run in and be questioning how how much you want to run anymore like you can get some brutal runs in out there oh yeah there's some hill it's tough to you know there's there's sections out there that are like you just never find a pace you know it's just relentless just up and down and up and down and it just feels like you never quite settle in so you know there's sections out there that are like that that are just brutal but there's those are also the sections that are you know they look amazing and and the area is just so awesome that you know that's but that's great as far as as far as that race goes yeah the the trail run series so this actually looks like your your sweet wooden wooden metal there from the from the marathon so yeah I mean it's definitely one of those that I'm hoping to get back for this year because I you know after talking with you about I'm definitely a little jealous and want to come out and get you know get a feel for it and give it hell but that heat I don't know that heat might do me and yeah I mean now that you bring that up I'm gonna change my rating from a 10 to a 9.5 because you know that that heat is something else and I'll touch on that real quick because I watched the podcast that Nicky Nicky Barra was on and you know they talked about people email them right before the race and say hey it's really hot are you gonna cancel it you know or and they do a race in the middle of winter I forget what they call it they do a bike race in the Badlands in the dead ass of winter and they always email them and they're like are you gonna cancel it and he's like well why would I do that that's that's part of the experience of the Montehay Trail is you're gonna get 110 and you're gonna get negative 60 you know that's that's part of the North Dakota Badlands so you know I hope it's not as hot next year but you know you can't change that and I mean it was hot so I'll give it a 9.5 out of 10 based on that heat bringing it down a little bit but I mean yeah absolutely awesome experience there's also kind of some you know there's a little bit of fun in that suffering though it's like you know that sometimes it's nice to be able to walk away from that and be like you know you get you just get one more one more tick in the box that you get to tell people like oh yeah and also it was a hundred and ten friggin degree like and you know so that's one of those things that is so funny because you you know you pray for good conditions and and all that and really you know it hardly ever happens no matter where you go with running especially running is one of those things that so many people tell you know you tell people oh I went and ran this far or did whatever and you know people people always hit you with like oh my god like I never do that you know oh yeah and it's just so it's so awesome to see people kind of turn that corner and find running in their own way and you know that that that kind of suffering during the race and everything is one of those things it's like it almost feels like distance runners like you know we like we say we want good weather and good conditions but then sometimes we're like we almost like like when it's crappy and like to be able to tell people because it's just like in the world of like of distance running it's like we're already running this far like how much you know what else can we throw on top of it you know in just a it's just kind of in a funny way you know and but it makes for just such an awesome community of people that are like oh man you know that's that's awesome this one time I was running this place and this happened you know so I feel like it just makes for such a great community but yeah that hundred and ten is a little that's a little rough for me I'm not I'm not a heat guy but I I'm definitely hoping to make it out this year for the trail series and everything it's I know it's a big weekend and so yeah hope hoping I can get back to that but that that'll be what is it on the 30th this year July 30th yeah I know the last weekend of July for sure yeah I believe I believe it's the 30th when we were doing that looking at the calendar yesterday so yeah so definitely for you guys watching and listening just give it a look go check it out it is it's a crazy spelling was it M A H D A H H E Y yeah that's correct you got it I was questioning it the whole time but I got it right so yeah go give that a look do some reading on it yeah amazing amazing area you know the Badlands is awesome and it's good to see good to see it getting proper use you know and oh yeah taken care of by somebody who really cares about it so yeah for sure and and you know as part of our YouTube journey we'll be we'll be documenting our training leading up to the to the race next year so if you guys are looking to run it or thinking about it you know we'll have this video and we'll have other videos in the future that'll kind of preview that that Monterey Trail out there so hopefully we can kind of set you guys up for success as well out there so yeah you know just before we close I was just gonna say the channel in general is going to be mostly you know it's going to be race reviews stuff monitoring like our training leading up to stuff just kind of tips and tricks that we've picked up along the way and we are not experts by any means you know just just stuff that we figured out you know hey when I'm running with my pack this part seems to sit weird and you know if you pack it in a different way you're better off something like that so it's going to be mostly yeah just running running central hopefully getting some guests on soon we have some some friends doing some some races coming up here in the winter in February we'll be up at I think we're going to run up to the snow joke in Montana up in Sealy kind of a crazy half marathon in the middle of February hoping to make it up for the for that so yeah we'll be doing some more videos with that type of stuff and yeah training race reviews all that type of stuff and then just some more videos for the for the company and touching on that we are going to release another our next video full video is going to be all about us just being able to break down what the company you know what it is right now what we're hoping it's going to be kind of goals for the future introduce ourselves a little bit better than you know today Ray lives in lives in a different town right now so once we get us all together you know we might be doing some zoom videos for a while but yeah the next one will be kind of all about the company and just what that looks like and some of our goals for the future so yeah thank you guys for checking it out and for more race reviews and stuff like that definitely check back if you have suggestions for races and different ones to check out and go review absolutely let us know we're always always down to go check out some new races oh yeah for sure alright sounds good I'll see you next time