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This podcast discusses the controversial case of Lorenzo Duby, a 28-year-old who died during a police encounter. The podcast explores the disproportionate treatment of black and brown people by the police. The host had an emotional interview with Lorenzo's sister, who was nine months pregnant when she learned of his death. The podcast also addresses the issue of police brutality and outdated tactics. It highlights the high number of black people killed by the police in 2023. Lorenzo died during a medical emergency and there was no body cam footage. The police subdued him and allowed a civilian to hold him down. The system is flawed and there hasn't been a resolution to this problem. The podcast includes part one of the interview with Tiffany, Lorenzo's sister, who shares her experience of learning about his death and the police version of the incident. Lorenzo was not given any medical care and was pronounced dead at Hennepin County. The police department suspended the officers involve This podcast contains graphic details which may be disturbing to some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. This podcast contains graphic details which may be disturbing to some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Thank you guys for tuning in to this first episode of Senseless True Crime. I'm Chantel B. And today I am bringing you a case that is controversial in the very fabric of our country. This is the senseless police encounter death of Lorenzo Duby. Who was just 28 years old when he lost his life with one encounter with the police. Who was just 28 years old when he lost his life with one encounter with the police. We have seen these stories all over the news. We have seen the public outcry for answers when these things happen. We all know that black and brown people are disproportionately treated unfairly when it comes to these encounters with the police. I'm bringing you this story because I had an emotional interview with Lorenzo's younger sister. Who at the time of her brother's death was nine months pregnant. And she walks us through the day that she learned that her brother passed away. The facts of the case and what has happened since then. Lorenzo had a two year old daughter at the time of his death. He was a brother, he was a son and so much more. And his death has left many unanswered questions like most of these cases do. Lorenzo died in Minneapolis and we all know that that is the same place where George Floyd was murdered back in 2020. Lorenzo died in Minneapolis and we all know that that is the same place where George Floyd was murdered back in 2020. I've done a lot of research into police brutality and some of these outdated and antiquated police tactics. I've done a lot of research into police brutality and some of these outdated and antiquated police tactics. And just policing as a whole. I was shocked to learn that 2023, just last year, was the deadliest number of black people who were killed by the police. I was shocked to learn that 2023, just last year, was the deadliest number of black people who were killed by the police. Over 1300 people. There was only 14 days last year where no one was killed at the hands of a police officer. So that would just be like a two week vacation. Out of 365 days. Lorenzo was having a medical emergency that day back in May of 2004. This was long before body cam footage was a thing. So as he struggled to breathe and was banging on car windows asking for help, police had arrived on the scene and they subdued him and even allowed for a civilian to hold him down. Sadly, Lorenzo lost his life that day. Like so many others have. And we know that the system is fundamentally flawed. We know that while some police departments are trying to update their tactics as far as with responding to these calls, We know that while some police departments are trying to update their tactics as far as with responding to these calls, we do know that there have been more incidents of people dying at the hands of police we do know that there have been more incidents of people dying at the hands of police than there has been a resolution on how to correct this problem. So I'm going to turn this over to the interview with Tiffany so that you all can get a better look into her family and who Lorenzo was as a person. I think at the end of the day, we forget that these people are human and that they have families. I think at the end of the day, we forget that these people are human and that they have families. And so I'm very, very sensitive to that fact when I am researching and when I am actually reporting these stories. So this is part one of the interview. My condolences to you and also to your family. I think that one of the most, for me, this is important to bring this case back into the spotlight. The first thing that I want to discuss with you is can you take me back to the day that you learned that your brother passed away? Sure. I remember like it was yesterday, of course, for two reasons. One, just a traumatic call. And the second one is that I was nine months pregnant, May 25, 2004. I got a call. I got off work probably a little early and I was just taking a nap, one of those pregnant naps. One of his friends had called and I don't think they really knew at the time. They had called my mother and then my mother called me and she was frantic, of course. And so I got up and I remember jumping off the bed. I still had my work clothes on. I had a brown outfit on, I remember like yesterday. And I had braids, you know, getting ready, preparing for labor the next month. And so I jumped up. I remember going down the stairs and I went outside and I began to feel sick. And like I said, at the time, we did not know what happened that specific day. What did your mother say to you that day? How did she break the news to you? She had called screaming that one of my brother's friends said he was in his apartment in Minnesota at the time and that he had just died, just abruptly died, which didn't seem right. And so it didn't make sense. So I hurried up and jumped in my mom's car, not my mom's car, my car, and went over to my mom's house. And we continued to get different phone calls because he had friends, other friends that lived there and they were calling, they were calling. And we really didn't get the truth until, I want to say the detectives called, the police called, and then we got a little more information as to what happened. And I think in no shade to my brother's friends that was with him or knew about it or whatever was in the city, I think they were trying to protect my mother's feelings. I think that they were, and it could have been, I remember this was almost 20 years ago, so it could have been this, that they didn't know themselves really. I just thought he had got killed. I was frantic and I think that's what my mom thought too. I think it was just that flat out that he had just got killed. Somebody over there had just killed him. And I want to say maybe the next day or so or that evening, it's a little blurred when it comes to that part of speaking to a detective, but I do recall them calling us, I want to say, because that's how we got into the information about the details as to what happened. And the officers were on temporary suspension with pay. So we knew that the Minnesota Police Department were involved. And if I remember correctly, it was a lady and a man. And I expressed to the detective that my brother wasn't a bum and he was loved. So their investigation took place and my mom had to start her own because we knew something just wasn't right. You just know in your gut feeling that it was just so, so shaky. Absolutely. What was their version of the story that happened that day? Well, their version of the story was that my brother was fairly healthy, you know, a chunky dude, probably about 5'10", I don't know, 200-something. I'm not going to say how much weight, but he was a big dude. And they said that he was in a part of the town where it's more so college town and that he was going up and down the street, banging on car windows, but seeking help, more so acting erratic, you know, just irate. And so somebody in the little college town called the police and when the police came, they say that he got physical with them. And so I remember he was a big dude, so they attempted to detain him. And I remember them talking about how my brother was down on all fours, very strong, like ox strong, you know, very strong dude. And so the police couldn't subdue him, so they sprayed him with mace and he eventually fell, you know, but he's on all fours. And a pedestrian was walking by, helped him handcuff my brother. And I remember somebody out there said that my brother yelled for his mother and said, Mama, don't let me die. Please don't let me die. And that wasn't part of the detective part, that was just my recollection of the story itself. Of course, the police department didn't say that, but they did. And he was placed in the back of the police car and then he was taken to Hennepin County where he was pronounced dead. And then, you know, they told us about all the information that they found on him. It was money and things of that nature. They never returned any of that stuff to us. So was he ever given any type of medical care? No, no. He never, they never called for any medical care. And I can recall, what I want to say, if I remember correctly, is that they put him in the, once they got him detained well enough, they put him in the backseat of a car because they didn't know if he was having some type of mental crisis, which he had no history of that, no one in our family. You know what I mean? I just think they just didn't know. And it appeared to be as if he was probably making his transition as they were handcuffing him and putting him in the backseat of the car because he was pronounced dead once he, he didn't even, I want to say he didn't even make it to the hospital. I want to say he probably went straight to Hennepin County when they started the investigation. And I remember talking to the detectives. And if I'm all over the place, forgive me, because I haven't had to tell this story in detail like this, but I, it's just certain things are coming back to my memory. I remember the detectives trying to assure us that they were going to do their investigation. And, you know, that's all I remember the investigators talking about. And we were thinking like, well, why would you all take your officer off, you know, off duty, you know, like a suspension? And they did no wrong or you didn't, you all didn't feel like they had violated some form of a policy. You know what I mean? Like if you, if you are just, if you are just responding to a call of irate pedestrian, you detain him, he may be a little physical and a little heavy for you or physically challenging for you. You detain him and put him in the car and then he dies. So there had to be some negligence somewhere. But nevertheless, yeah, that was the information that we really got, was that I don't recall them ever saying that the EMS came for him at all. Do you feel like you and your family were kind of given the runaround and things at the time when it came to the facts of this case? Not even so much a runaround. I think they gave us the politically correct answers. I think they wanted to pat us and because remember, we are in Michigan here and they are in Minnesota. I think they wanted to get us to buy into whatever their story was and try to build some, it was some distant genuine trust. Not even so much trust. Trust would be too kind. I think they wanted us to buy into whatever their story was and I wholeheartedly believe this was just paperwork to push, we got another black man that's deceased. You know what I mean? That's how I felt. It was very vague. It wasn't so much of a runaround. We only talked to one detective. I remember trying to call them a couple of times and they were just a couple of days after. Yeah, not just so much a runaround. They wanted us to believe that their side of the story was the only story that happened. You know what I mean? This is what happened. This is what we're saying has happened and guess what? This is what we put in our report from the detective standpoint as well as the Hennepin County because remember, they work together. Even when we got the report back, it favored their department. We're being honest. Those people, kids go to school together. They hang out and have tea parties and things of that nature. Can you kind of walk me through what that report said? Well, the Hennepin County report, more so it was just a report of an autopsy, of course, because my mother requested one. It favored that he was just having some withdrawals of some substance that he took. It never said it caused cardiac arrest, you know, anything like that. Was your mother's medical history, was it ever just taken, was it ever taken up? Did they consider what his medical history was like during the arrest or either during as far as, you know, the investigation? Did that ever come into play? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Nope. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. They did not. For whatever reason, I'm not sure. I'll say this through the entire interview, that they just did not do justice for my brother and he needed medical attention and he didn't get it. He was placed in the back of a police car and really taken straight to the Hennepin County morgue, basically, because I do not recall them ever saying he had made it to the hospital. By the time we spoke to them, my brother was already at the morgue. That's just so unreal that that could happen just in that way. Can you tell me what led your brother, what was his path like that led him to Minnesota? Had a lot of friends there. You know, be truthful, you know, the young folks hung out there was funny. He dated people there from time to time, I'm sure. People that we grew up with for a lifetime, you know, they were there. He didn't live there wholeheartedly. He would come back and forth. He just had a baby girl and, you know, he was back and forth living there. How did your mother handle losing her only son? What was that like for her? My mother was devastated. I don't think she was ever the same. We already lost my dad nine months before September 13, 2003. To my mom, only husband, and nine months later, can you imagine losing your only son? And, yeah, she was devastated into her grave. And I think that it just took a toll on her physically. And I have to say, with God's grace, my mom, you know, she didn't walk around moping or anything after that. We pushed through as a family. She and I, and the kids, and, you know, my niece, and my mom had a few adoptive kids. We pushed through. We pushed through. We sure did. And your brother had a daughter as well. How old was she? Yeah, my niece had to have been two. I believe she was two when he passed away. So, truly, if I was to ask her, well, when I do talk, I don't think that she remembers him as much. But we have tons of pictures. Her mom has tons of pictures. I have quite a few pictures. And we've always, and her mom has done a wonderful job keeping his memory alive to her as much as she could have, you know. And I have lots of pictures, too. A picture speaks a thousand words, you know. And telling stories, you know, and keeping his memory alive. How was Lorenzo as a big brother to you? Like, what was he like? Oh, wow. Man. He was that, the true definition of a big brother. And I'm not being cliche because he was that protective brother. He was funny, you know. He stayed out of the way, you know. He wasn't in a lot of mess, you know. He was always collected and calm. You never see him rah-rah or, you know, getting in anybody's face or starting any stuff with anybody. And if you did, you knew a storm was going to happen. Anybody will tell you that he wasn't, he didn't start any mess with anybody. He was my mom's baby, you know. And it's funny because I knew, it took me a while, I can't count, to figure out that my brother was my mom's pet. But I was okay with that, you know. Because my dad, I had a dad. I was my dad's pet, only girl. I have four, I have one adopted brother, I have four half-brothers. And so, but he and I are only two, we have the same mother and father, same womb and everything. So, he was a great big brother. I'll never forget when he saw me pregnant, pregnant, like belly big. Probably a month before all of this took place, he had rubbed my belly and he said, you make sure you tell my daughter's father. He said, he's in the fourth quarter, you know, so I need him to do right. And I said, okay. And that was probably, no, that wasn't the last time I talked to him. I remember we had talked and I had asked him, I said, he said, can you send me some money? I need to get my baby's crib. He said, no problem, got you. Every time he would come back and forth from Minnesota, he would bring gifts and he would bring my mom crystals and I still got purses and stuff that I just hold on to. That he just brought in, you know, they're tokens of this love. So, he was just a big teddy bear ball of love. He was funny, I'm talking about comical. When he was in the room, you knew he was in the room. You know, he was just, he was smart. I mean, he was, my brother was smart. He was athletic, you know. He was, I'll never forget, he was probably in the ninth grade and, you know, MSU was scouting him already to play football and we always used to joke, we used to play paddle football and we always used to joke about how he played when he played football and he had knocked one of the kid's helmets off. He hit him so hard, he was like, whoa. You know, maybe you're too big to be playing paddling. You know, that was our family joke. My family, we were silly and, but yeah, he was just real good at math and I remember we went to elementary school together and I never, I love, you know, you always love going to school with your big older siblings and my brother, he would get all A3s and so I know people don't remember, but the letter was for the work that you did and then the number was for how, you know, your behavior. And he was just, he was rambunctious, but I believe, you know, he was just too smart for the classes. So he was just funny and, you know, played breaks and, you know, with the pencils. He was that, he was that kid. He was that brother and, yeah, showed a lot of love and affection and, yep. I'm not sure we miss him, too. And those are some great memories to have, you know, and to hold on to. Sure. When you hear about the George Floyd murder, were you surprised or shocked to hear this? How did it make you feel? Absolutely not. And I know why we are singling George Floyd, because it was in the same city, you know, same police department, you know, same county. As I slept on that case, thinking about the George Floyd case, every moment I made a comparison of my brother, there was no difference. The only difference was that there was no body cams 20 years ago. The only difference. My brother needed medical attention. How do we know how they subdued him, they subdued George Floyd? Did they properly give him treatment? At least they did call the EMS, you know, to come and see about him. They didn't even do that with my brother. Right. You know what I mean? So, no, my brother wasn't in the store with counterfeit money. My brother needed assistance. He couldn't breathe. He was going through something medically. And the truth be told, who's to say what caused the medical attention? Right. You know? So, it weighed on my heart. And I do go on my social media and post when they talk about the George Floyd cases and things of that nature. You know, Shantel, what's even more gut-wrenching is that those officers that they, that took my brother into custody, that responded. They're living their lives. No consequences, no repercussions. They're happy with their family, their families, their loved ones. They're still probably out there on the force or what have you. They probably got their 20-year pens or salutes or whatever. You know what I mean? Congratulations. Yeah. That is the, there was no accountability held. I don't know if I told you this in the pre-interview, that my mother and my cousin, because I was pregnant, they flew over to Minnesota to investigate this case, though. Wow. Yep, they did. Because remember that, that detective that called, all that was just, it was just too, it was so, it was holes in the story. It was gaps in it. And, you know, they wanted us to, oh, okay, family, it's okay. You know, pacify us, pretty much. Oh, this is what happened, but it's okay. No, no, it's not okay. And my mom had taken, you know, part of my bodyguarding insurance and money to fly over there, not once but twice, and held a rally in my brother's name. Wow. Because Minnesota was known for, highly, highly known for police brutality. They were known for it. It wasn't a given. And, yeah, my mom and my cousin, that they went over there, I want to say, I believe, at least twice during that time. So we didn't stop. We fought as long as we could. But people don't understand that, you know, years ago for investigations, you need money. You needed money. Yes. You needed money because you didn't have footage, you know. And then we're trying to fight in Minnesota for Michigan. Driving, that's 10, 11 hours, you know, and the flight is hours. But you needed money. You needed money. You needed long money. Yes. And remember, we only have their story against our story and our, my brother's integrity, you know what I mean? So we're telling a story that happened. So you needed a leg to stand on. And it took money. And you have the backing to, as far as you know, from the coroner who actually ruled his death an accident. Yes. Yes. That puts the icing on the cake for them. And that's why I said, in their mind, it was an open and shut closed investigation because I'm sure they had to investigate because he did, he passed away in their custody. Oh, for sure. Oh, we got the coroner to say, you know, that this happened, this occurred. Stick a nail in your neck. You just stick a nail in this coffin. Next, next, we're on to the next one. This family can only fight for so long because their money isn't enough to keep coming back and forth and keep applying the pressure. I'm sure at some point your mother just felt totally defeated. She did what we, she did hire the Donnie Cochran law firm, not Donnie Cochran himself, but the law firm did pick the case up. And my mother was paying thousands of dollars for them to investigate what happened. And the seasons change, right? And the kids had, those college kids were really witnesses to everything that happened there. And the kids had gone this particular season, because remember everything's passed. So that was in May, let's just say summer of 04. Summer break, the kids are gone. I remember that the law firm had told her it would cost them a lot of money, more thousands of dollars to contact and try to find these kids to give a statement because now they're dispersed out for the summer. And my mother didn't have the money and they closed the door on them. No more rallies, no more contact because we didn't have money. We didn't have the money. I'd always say that if I got some money, I would reopen this case. How has Lorenzo's death, how has it changed your life and impacted your life and your career? Big time, big time. Not in that, because you know, I think about my brother. When he passed, I was working in juvenile probation and I would love to have seen him, have him be here to see me, you know, supervise adults, you know, now. And he always had to use jokes and curiosity about, you know, people and that committed crime. We would have conversations about that. So I miss that. It has affected me tremendously. My brother and my dad were my protectors and, you know, you almost had that safety net taken from up on you. And when that's gone, you're a little lost. You're a little bit lost because I didn't have to fight battles because I had my big brother, you know. I didn't have to, you know, fight, you know, or anything. I didn't have to tell my brother or whatever, but he was my protector. You know, he was my friend. To have someone that came out of the same wound as you to be gone, no, we're not twins. We're three years apart, you know. It's devastating. It's devastating. I feel like I was ripped apart and I was cheated. My brother was only 28, you know. And I remember when I was 27 and, you know, I was only 28. Oh, and I'm nervous. I got nervous. And when I'm 45, I thank God. I am, well, not really 45, but it triggers so many different areas of your life that you don't even know that they trigger. But honestly, I'm grateful for the time we did spend together. When I was 25, he was 28. I'm like, 28? Can you imagine, you know, being 28? You haven't lived a life. You haven't seen parts of the world. You haven't been anywhere. You haven't done anything. You're just really trying to find a way out. And that's just heart aching and heart wrenching, man. Yeah. And your brother died a senseless death that could have been prevented. What could have happened that day, you know, to avoid this? Simple as trying to talk to him, de-escalate whatever he was going on. I don't know how, 20 years ago, how well officers had any type of training for someone who needs some assistance, what to do. And I guarantee they didn't because, not to veer off, but I remember watching the George Floyd case and they talked about how they implemented training for people who are in distress. But you're talking about almost 20 years later. Now training officers how to handle people in more distressful situations. I believe if they called 911, I don't recall them ever saying my brother struck any of them, which we know if he did, they would have probably killed him, like instantly, you know, they shot him. Right. And he was in possession of a weapon or anything. He was. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I'm going to end the interview right there. And next week I'll be back with part two of the interview with Tiffany Duby. And we will take a deeper look inside of the investigation. And this is into her brother's death, Lorenzo Duby. I just want to thank you guys for tuning in. As always, you can tap into the senseless true crime social media page over on Instagram. It is senseless underscore true crime podcast. Let me know your thoughts on this episode. And I'll be back next week for part two. Thank you guys. Thank you.
