ep4

The podcast episode discusses the importance of preserving the quality of southern bluefin tuna. The Japanese practice of ikijimi, which involves quickly killing the fish and maintaining its freshness, is highlighted. The Japanese have a passion for this specific type of tuna, and they are very picky buyers. The episode emphasizes the need to cool the fish down quickly to preserve its texture and color. Bleeding the fish and using ice are important steps in maintaining its quality. Various individuals, including a marine biologist, a fisherman, and a butcher, share their insights and tips on how to properly care for and process the fish. Welcome back to the Pod and Rill podcast. I'm Mike Plant and this is episode 4 where we continue to learn about southern bluefin tuna. And we heard in episode 3 about looking after the fish. One of the ways is ikijimi. It's a method of killing fish which maintains its quality of its meat, originating in Japan. Now there's some irony in the fact that, as we've heard before, the Japanese were somewhat blamed for depleting this fishery and now it's on the bounce back. But we are taking learnings from the Japanese on how to best preserve the fish. So we return to Tony Walker or TK from TK's Offshore Fishing to explain more about how the Japanese have influenced how we look after fish. Oh, it's totally dictated by them. And that's exactly right. So when we harvest a bluefin, it's dragged onto a foam mattress. And the whole idea is that there's not a scale missing. And the big thing for us, Mike, and it's also for the recreational guys, is getting that core texture down as quick as you can. So we drag it onto a mattress so that we essentially don't want a scale missing off that fish because the buyers boil up their eyes. So for us, you should be able to deal to a southern bluefin tuna in less than two minutes. Basically spike through the brain, have it gilded and gutted and put your pitheline down through its spine, have it gilded and gutted and washed out in an icy slurry in less than two or three minutes. And that's the key to the whole thing. Because the Japanese are the buyers and they drive the market. And the unique thing with southern bluefin tuna is that really it's only the Japanese that have such a passion for it. So if you look at other markets like the Hawaiian market and LA and all that sort of thing, if they're buying for the restaurant trade and that sort of thing, they don't mind if it's bluefin or big eye. It's the Japanese that have got the passion for the southern bluefin tuna. And the vast majority of bluefin tuna is sold in Japan. So they are very, very picky buyers. And I was actually mortified when I came over to Australia, watching my crew on my first trip fishing out of a lulabar. We'd go out for fish and they'd just drag it across the deck. Well, we never dragged anything across the deck in New Zealand. We actually had hammocks made up, like a stretcher. So if we had a big fish, we've got a big northern bluefin or something like that, we'd actually put it on the stretcher, have a deck out on its end, pick the bloody thing up and walk it over to the match. We never dragged anything. Because, you know, if you get a scratch mark on that fish, you might lose 500 yen. And that's what it's all about. It's all about quality. I had a smaller vessel, a 60 foot vessel called Extreme Limits that I used to base out of Whangamata. And we only had a small holding capacity. So fishing out of Gisborne and Napier, I was day tripping basically. I'd go out and get 40 fish in one day and come back in. My price was just about double the price of the guys that were out there for four or five days. So quality is premium. And that's the great thing with the Tuna Champions. They've got a lot of instructional videos on how to care for your catch. And the core thing is getting that fish into a nice slurry. Sort of the consistency of McDonald's Slushy is how you want it. You want that fish in there as quick as possible. And you'd be surprised if you take the core temperature even after four or five hours inside that tuna, it is still warm, even after it's been in that slurry for four or five hours. So you've got to pull that core temperature down to as cold as you can get, as quick as you can. Otherwise you end up with like a brown coloured flesh and you really want that clear rose petal coloured flesh. I've seen recreational caught fish and I've sort of frowned at it a bit. And the beauty of course with the surface longlining is that they'll have their initial fight and then they'll just settle down. So they're caught on the hook, they'll have their initial run and then they'll settle down. Now if you've been fighting a fish on a recreational boat and you've been fighting it for 40 minutes, well it's essentially cooking itself Mike. So it's releasing all this adrenaline and it's essentially cooking itself. So you want to get it on as quick as you can and if you're not worried about taking it to the weigh station, the first thing you want to do is go and gut it straight away but also whack off the tail. And if you've got a decose, hold the decose against the tail and if you've caught through the spine, hold that decose against the tail and watch the spinal cord, watch the gut cavity and you'll watch all the red blood going through the gut cavity and keep that decose on it until it's running clear through the gut cavity. Or vice versa, you can put the decose in the gut cavity and keep an eye, prop the tail off and keep an eye on the tail and you keep that decose in there until it's run clear. The big thing is that the blood in the fish is basically heating the fish, so it's cooking the fish. So the quicker you can get that fish cooled down, the better. And here's John Holdsworth, our marine biologist from Episode 3, telling us more about this Japanese practice and why the bluefin tuna is such a sought-after fish. Yeah, well they're a cold water tuna and they have high fat content, particularly if they've been feeding well and in good condition. And I guess the Japanese have lauded their praises for a long time as one of the top feeding species because of some of those attributes. It's also the colour and texture and they value a whole range of different properties that we might not be so attuned to. And different parts of the tuna are probably really good for different preparations. Yeah, well, I mean, they've been fishing for a long time and they've always had this thing about maintaining the highest quality of the fish. Eki-jimi is to stop the muscles or relax the fish, so it sort of kills the fish instantly, which is good for animal welfare as well as for eating qualities and relaxes the muscles so they don't sort of go into rigor quite as much. Bleeding obviously gets some of that blood and means that it'll last longer. Fish will last longer when it's chilled. The shelf life will be better and probably the eating qualities to some degree. And the chilling is important because after fighting on a line, the bluefin tuna can get quite hot. They have an ability to raise their body temperature up above the water temperature quite a bit, which is unusual for a lot of fish. It's not common at all. That's why they can be so efficient predators in these cold waters and around temperate areas, you know, sort of 30 to 40 degrees south. And that's precisely where Alroy Thompson from Episode 3's batch in Waihao Bay is. He's trying to look after the fish as well by going one step further. I actually bought an ice machine this year just because it's such a special place, you've really got to look after it. So I've got enough ice to do with my mates sort of up and down the street here. And, you know, the shop sells ice and Trophy Lewis, Floppy from up at Trophy Lewis, he sells ice. But yeah, definitely you need more ice than you think. And I can't actually remember what the stats were. I was listening too, but it might have been 50% of ice for every kilo of fish. Even if we do take them, it's bleeding them properly. You know, we normally don't come and weigh the fish because, you know, the Weymasters, I think one year, they weighed 80, I think, in a day and it was just ridiculous. So we normally, the best photo we found is just on the boat, you know, with the angler holding it. And that's what we find the best thing. And then just, yeah, get it in one of those big stony creek ice bags, you know, those chiller bags, and they seem to be pretty good. Yeah, just ice it up. We gut them. If we take them, we gut them and get plenty of ice in there because they do take a while to chill down. And we're just lucky our neighbours got a big chiller that we throw them in and just hang them for a day. And then when we get back in the next day, it's like, yeah, cut them up. Even vacuum pack them, you know, and then at least when the boys go home or your mates go home or you give them away, like it's all just, you know, good quality. My goal would be to have, you know, like a Japanese, how they do it. Like it's pretty amazing how they cut it up. And I just, over COVID, I just got lost in those videos of people cutting up tuna. I loved it. Yeah, even watching a lot of the comms guys, you know, they'll put the fish on a mattress and then they'll deal to it. So, you know, it just saves the bruising. And it is such a special fish. And, you know, I just, yeah, I guess we're just so lucky to have it here in New Zealand. Toby Barkler from Whakatane Sportfishing Club. In episode three, we heard from Toby. Well, he's also a local butcher. So he knows a thing or two about meat processing home kills for farms around the region. How good it is depends on how you've looked after it. And I've processed quite a few tuna now because a few guys bring them in, you know, into our work and we cut them up and vacuum pack them and things like that. And they're all looking after them really, really well. And I think just with the quality of those tuna bags and guys loading up with ice and things like that, bleeding them, you know, they're just coming in fantastic quality, you know. And just a bit of advice for people, if they are going to keep one or two, is bleeding them both sides. And I think some people run into the mistake of just bleeding one side of the fish, you know, they'll get a fish on the boat and say they've got a double or triple strike. They'll quickly ram the knife in and bleed one side of it. Well, that only does that one side, you know, you've got to really pump all that blood out and bleed both sides, you know, and then ram the hose in there and get all the blood out. But no, the fish is just, they're fantastic eating, you know, they're in prime condition, the fish, when we're nabbing them at Waihau Bay there. With the fish we weigh, the very small minority, we're actually weighing for our own club members. And obviously, there are a lot of courtesy weighs. So we have a policy now that we will weigh fish for affiliated members and we'll courtesy weigh for anybody. But we now have a high courtesy weigh fee of $50. So encourage people mainly to join a club and be contributing something. Now, that's Christine Elminger. You'll remember her from Episode 3, Finding Will's Boat. She's also from the Waihau Bay Sportfishing Club and she raises a good point. By joining a local fishing club, you have some skin in the game. You support the New Zealand Sportfishing Council, each member pays $16 a year towards the council. That supports our public outreach legacy, also the Marine Research Foundation and the Youth Ocean Trust. It also enables anglers to have their catches recorded for each club. And at the end of the year, this data is available on the NZSFC website and in the yearbook. It also contributes to scientists and marine biologists like John Holdsworth, helping us understand fish stocks. You can also enter competitions when you're a member of a club, like the Whakatane Winter Bluefin Tuna Tournament organised by Toby Barclay. That's what we done last year. And I had to be gilled and gutted before they come into the weigh station, which was great. You know, like the fish were coming in, they were gilled and gutted, they were on ice. So those guys that were staying away for, you know, for two or three days, they could just go and gut them and bring them in. The only issue there, Mike, was it was actually a little bit dangerous for a few of the guys. I can vouch for it as well. When you're out on a trailer boat and you're fishing off the coast there and it's rough, you know, and you've got guys with knives and stuff that rolling around on the deck of the boat and things like that, and you think, oh, we have to get the gills and guts out of this fish to weigh it, it's just going to be sort of an accident waiting to happen, you know what I mean? So this year they don't have to be gilled and gutted, but they can if they want to, you know. But with how the prize structure is, if there's a great big fish weighed in this year right from the start, you know, it's going to encourage guys to just let their fish go and get points for that overall team section. But yeah, I think the guys do want to go and gut them, they're more than welcome to. And we'll be, you know, all over social media channels and stuff like that, we'll be keeping guys up to date with what fish have come in, you know, for that exact reason, you know, trawl across to the fishery. You know, if there's 130 kilo fish caught on the first day, you know, you're just better off to let them go if you've got something wider than that. Yeah, it's a great way to approach tournaments. And I just want to know, is tuna more exciting than the marlin for you now? Has it kind of taken over the summer fishing for you? Sort of. I've got a little bit like my next little mission is catching a northern and there's quite a few floating around this season. I sort of keep in comms with a few of the commercial guys down here and yeah, they're catching heaps of them, you know, more and more each year, you know. But these guys are catching upwards, you know, close to 50, you know, close to 50 northerns this season. I made them on one of the commercial boats, but, you know, there might be one or two caught recreationally each year. So you kind of see on social media too much really of commercial guys pointing the finger at wrecks and wreck guys pointing the finger at commercial. But it seems talking to everyone that I've spoken to about it, this is a fishery that kind of brings everyone together just to celebrate the fishery and get into it, you know. Yeah, you're right. And we, and I think it helps them out as well, you know, like it definitely helps them out, you know, like they'll sometimes work, you know, sometimes the recreational guys will be catching fish in waters that the commercial guys won't even think about fishing in, you know what I mean? Like we sort of scout out the fish as such for them, you know, so we sort of work in like that, you know what I mean? Yeah. And they seem to be real helpful, you know, you can hear them on the VHF down there and things like that. So I think just because the fishery is so healthy, yeah, there's plenty enough fish for everyone there, which is cool. It's amazing. And the other thing I've noticed with this fishery is no one seems to know the one lure or the one spread that works. It seems like a bit of everything works for everyone and everyone's kind of got a bit of a mix in the way they approach trawling speeds and lure size and head shapes and all sorts. What tends to work for you, Toby? I've got all sorts, Mike, but I think that's why it attracts so many people. Like, you know, just about everyone that's gone down to Waihao Bay or come to Whakatane or, you know, they've even caught enough behind the aldermans and stuff there. They're fairly easy to catch. Like if you're on the right place at the right time, I don't think it matters what you're towing behind your boat, to be honest. And if you're, you know, if you're doing between six and eight knots and stuff, you know, and you've got some decent lures there, you know, you've got a pretty good chance of catching one, you know. And I think that's what attracts a lot of people. You know, like you can, if you're down Waihao Bay in the middle of the summer and there's 150 boats out, you might catch three or four marlin, but if you're if you're down there in the middle of the winter, you know, there might be 50 or 60 tuna caught, you know. So they're just a little bit easier to catch. You don't have to have super razor sharp hooks and you don't have to have all the flash gear, you know, like they're just, you know, great big giant skippies really, you know, on the right day. They definitely have their hard days, don't get me wrong. You know, there's some days you can't catch a bloody thing, but other days, you know, I think, and also I think late in the season can be exceptional fishing. We went down late last year and me and a mate Huey, we got 13 southern bluefin before lunchtime one day and there were four boats out. So yes, just for people listening, you know, like that was, I think that was early August and that was right out deep too. So there's still a lot to learn about the fishery. You know, look at us, we're catching them in May this year, like that was unheard of as well. So there could be a good three months of fishing for them. It's pretty cool. Well, that would be very difficult because of course you're not going to get a true weight if it's been gilled and gutted. So guys wouldn't do that, but if they've got them, yeah, that's well iced down, it's great. But generally if the guys are gilling and gutting and icing, they're not intending to weigh them. They're just, you know, keeping good care of it for their own food. Well, that's a good concept because at the end of the day, the whole thought behind that, and Waihea Bay and Wakatani have been leaders in this, the whole thought is that, yeah, okay, you've been out and had some sport, but it's not about striking a pose at the weigh station. You want to have something that you can actually harvest at the end of it and spread around the village, you know, and that's a great thing. As we saw in the first couple of years, you know, there was guys weighing their fish and basically discarding it beside the bloody weigh station. So seagulls were feeding on it. You know, we heard about the infamous case of the one thrown in the river, you know, which is a huge disrespect to the local whanau there. And this whole concept of gulling and gutting, I think it's a great idea, Mike, because at the end of the day, you want something that you can actually take home and, you know, one gluten, you're going to get multiple feeds out of it and, you know, you can look after your grandparents and the guy across the fence, you know, your neighbours. So that's the whole idea of it is, if you're going to harvest the fish, utilise that fish, utilise every part of it. So I applaud the new stance on it. What does the bluefin fishery look like when it's going off, like when action's happening and they're feeding on the surface? What is it like for those who haven't seen that? Oh, it's just nothing like it. It's just nothing like it. I was telling some guys at Waiau Bay, I did a talk there and it's worth noting for the recreational guys, we'd start hauling, oh, say one o'clock in the afternoon. And if the fishing was slow, we'd stop hauling sort of two or three o'clock in the afternoon and have a bite to eat and that sort of thing. And we'd wait till just on dusk and start hauling again. The fish, the bluefin definitely come on the bite just after the change of light. So we'd start hauling again. And if you can imagine, we've got a whole squid, about 250, 300 grams of the bait and our traces are 12 metres long. So as we start hauling, all of a sudden, for about a half mile in front of us, as the tension comes on the main line, we've got all these baits sort of 50 feet apart, all start skipping on the surface and they just get slammed and there's just nothing like it. All of a sudden, you're hauling and hauling and the next minute your main line gets pulled down really, really tight and you go, oh shit, we've just been slammed by this big bluefin. And of course, we clip that trace onto a fighting line. So every bluefin we catch, we fight by hand. We clip it onto a slate or rope. So you've got the deckhand down the back there, yee-haw, and he's got the southern bluefin, just come on. And it's truly an epic adventure when it's on. And you'll see that with the Dyes now, especially in advanced technology, you can see those schools of fish and the recreational guys are targeting themselves. They'll see a school and they'll target it. The adrenaline rush is just incredible because there's such an abundance of fish these days. We don't really see them on the surface as much as you do, say, over in South Australia, where we're on the surface a hell of a lot more. But I think that's more to do with the feed too. You'll see that feed line on your sound and lock down 10, 20 metres. Where the feed is, is where you're going to find your bluefin. But of course, around the new moon, around the full moon, sorry, you've got all your phytoplankton and all your bedlands right on the surface, particularly right on dusk. So if you're going to see a school of bluefin in New Zealand, it's going to be right on dusk. And the biomass, you kind of hinted at it, but you're pretty confident the biomass is increasing for that fishery, eh? It's incredible. Yeah, I was in Blue Bay last year and I was talking to three of the APA scientists that are basically in control of equator allocation and all that sort of thing. And they said last year there was an 11% increase in biomass. So it's just steadily increasing. And that's the whole, yes, I know the recreation guys have got issues with the equator system, but at the end of the day, thank God we do have a equator system. But that's the whole idea of the equator system is that they monitor our catches, they monitor our catch per unit efforts, and they'll adjust the equator accordingly. So if they say I've got a catch per unit effort of two kilos per book and they see that decreasing, well, they'll cut the equator. And that's the great thing is that we can monitor, although as you know, it's not an exact science, but we've been studying bluefin for long enough now that we know what's going on. And that's the exciting thing is that we're seeing that biomass increasing year by year. We're seeing it over in America too. They've got a Pacific bluefin fishery over there and in the last couple of years, that's just gone nuts as well. So, yeah, it's exciting times ahead. We've got a very healthy fishery. I believe in Australia, the Southern bluefin tuna is soon to be introduced into the Marine Stewardship Council certification as a sustainable fishery. And as you know, Mike, that's an independent body. It's not something that's owned by the fishing industry or any government. They're totally independent. So if they are looking at introducing it into their system, that's the world's highest standard of sustainability. So it's a good news story. So it seems like a collaborative effort to rebuild this fishery. And is this something that we could look at other fisheries? Because it seems unique. We hear other fisheries being decimated and people point the fingers at each other and that, but this is one that I guess we've all agreed on that we needed to look after it. We have put some things in place. The REC guys are making concessions by taking one fish a boat or the self-imposed even lower than what MPI sets for recreational fishers to take. Just basically being decent blokes and going, we're just going to take what we need. And it seems to be this kind of understanding. Is this something we could learn for other fisheries, do you think? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. There's a host of fisheries that we could be doing the same thing, and it's really... Now that those barriers have been broken down, there is a case where we can work together. And I've always had in the back of my mind, even when I started this journey with the recreational fishermen, I've been sharing information for years and of course we had the bluefin fishery, but we've got bigger battles. We need to work together on these things. Yes, while we've got a very, very healthy fishery in Australia and New Zealand, and you look at the commercial sector for bluefin and swordfish and that sort of thing, there's only 30 boats in each country. It's such a hard game to actually be successful at, but the guys that are in that fishery now have been in there for a long time and they're the real deal. They know what they're doing. The issue we have is that while we, both the recreational and commercial sector in Australia and New Zealand, have done a stunning job and we're seeing a rebound in our fishery, we can't control what's happening on the high seas. And that's a terrifying thing for me. I fished outside Lord Howe Island last year and I could hear the Asian boats on the radio. And as a lot of you guys do, you look at the vessel finder and that sort of thing, and you see the plague of boats outside our borders, particularly up in the South Fiji Basin. We've got Spanish vessels down here for God's sakes. What the hell are they doing down here? We call it the wall of death. And no matter what we do here, these fish have tails, the pelagic migratory fish. And we can be as good custodians as we can be, but there's that wall of death that they have to get through as well. And it's terrifying. We can't control it. And although some people are signatories for it, a lot of the nations are not signatories for it. The Spanish are a perfect case of that. They're well known for not being team players. And yeah, that's the terrifying thing is that we've got, and they are camped, I've seen them up the Kermadecs. I fished outside the 200 mile limit, chasing Blue Nose. And I ran into the Spanish fleet and the Chinese fleet, and to name a few of the nations. And they're not there to be sustainable. That's for sure, Mike. You know, they're there to just take whatever they can and go on a plunder somewhere else. We've got a serious, serious issue there. And that's why I think both the recreational and commercial sectors have got to work together to try and limit the damage that's being done. Because if we don't do something about it, we're not going to have a fishery. It's that simple. You're not going to go away. I've heard stories about the Asian fleet, where it's not actually economical at this stage to do what they're doing. But when it push comes to shove, and we do get our shit together and say to guys, hey, you need to get out. They're going to say, hang on, we've got a historical right to be here. We've been here for 15 years, fishing in the Western South Pacific. We've got a historical right to be here. That's when it'll pay dividends for them, not so much now. So yeah, they're thinking a lot further ahead than we are. So it's a really, really scary thing that's going on outside our borders. You know, just about everyone that's gone down to Waihao Bay or come to Whakatane or, you know, they've even caught them off the, behind the aldermans and stuff there. They're fairly easy to catch. Like if you're on the right place at the right time, I don't think it matters what you're towing behind your boat, to be honest. And if you're, you know, if you're doing between six and eight knots and stuff, you know, and you've got some decent lures there, you know, you've got a pretty good chance of catching one, you know. And I think that's what attracts a lot of people. You know, like you can, if you're down Waihao Bay in the middle of the summer and there's 150 boats out, you might catch three or four marlin. But if you're down there in the middle of the winter, you know, there might be 50 or 60 tuna caught, you know. So they're just a little bit easier to catch. You don't have to have super razor sharp hooks and you don't have to have all the flash gear, you know, like they're just, you know, great big giant skippies really, you know, on the right day. They definitely have their hard days, don't get me wrong. You know, there's some days you can't catch a bloody thing, but other days, and I think, and also I think late in the season can be exceptional fishing. We went down late last year and me and a mate Huey, we got 13 southern bluefin before lunchtime one day and there were four boats out. So yes, just for people listening, you know, like that was, I think that was early August and that was right out deep too. So there's still a lot to learn about the fishery. You know, look at us, we're catching them in May this year. Like that was unheard of as well. So there could be a good three months of fishing for them. It's pretty cool. It's just so awesome just as I've been on this journey, finding out about this fishery and how it's so kind of accessible to a lot of people. But the one thing is it does get dangerous out there, eh? And have you had any close calls or is there any advice you want to give to those who are maybe giving it a nudge, maybe for the first time, what would you recommend they do so they don't get themselves into trouble out there? Definitely had a few sort of closest calls, Mike, especially being on a boat my size, I could fish out of a six, seven, thirties, you know, which is probably, yes, sort of standard, maybe a little bit smaller than the average boat down there, especially sort of that Waihao Bay, East Cape, Cape Runaway area. Like I've had, I've fished quite a bit down there. I think just for the guys that are doing it for the first time, just try, try stay as west as they can, you know, don't, don't sneak around the corner down around off Lotton Point, Hicks Bay, it's just a whole different kettle of fish around there, you know, like, you just get nasty swells and currents and, you know, you get around, you know, like, you get around ranch early banks and stuff like that. It's just a, it's just another kettle of fish around there, you know, and just don't push the boundaries, you know, wait for those good weather windows like we've got right now, there's some beautiful weather coming through, you know, like, you know, always push the boundaries and there's a little bit of a window and it's closing in, oh, we better go, you know, like they can, it's, because you're a long way offshore in some of those places, especially when you're pushing out to the 15 or 1600 metre line, you might be 20 miles offshore, you know, if you have an accident out there and when that current starts to rip, those waves just stand up, you know, and I'm guilty for it last season, especially early in the season, because earlier, what, apart from this year, we're catching them off the runaway sea bay there in May, which is sort of unheard of, but generally early in the season, you're right off round off Hicks Bay, even further around, you know, that's when it gets ugly around there and it can be all beautiful and nice and flat and calm and next thing you know, the current's ripping one way, you've got swells from two different directions and you put 20 knots on top of that and all of a sudden, you know, you've got waves here that can flip a trailer boat just like that. So yeah, definitely a place to just go prepared, you know. Juveniles can be found in warmer waters at times and they were off the west coast of the North Island for a while, Cavity Coast and Taranaki, but generally the smaller fish turn up in January, February off the west coast of the South Island, the bigger fish turn up a bit later and the bigger fish prefer the cooler water, I think, and they come up the east coast of the South Island and the North Island sort of from June to, or May to August and the commercial fishers believe that they often follow the 17 degree temperature thermocline. And then you have the issue of, you know, if you're down here for a few days, what do you do with it? And, you know, do you keep it in a chilly one? How much ice have you got? Yeah, there's a lot of issues that start kicking in and yeah, that seems, you know, a lot of people are doing that, so that's pretty cool too. Yeah, I think like some clubs are, you know, they want you to tag the fish because, you know, it goes to their, I don't know, at the end of the year, they win a prize or something, but probably the point is with the tagging is a lot of people are tagging them in the wrong place and they'll get them in the bloodlines and then they bleed out and it's like, well, they're not going to survive. So I think that's it. And certainly, you know, you talk to the waymasters down here and they'll see 80 fish in a day and they'll just, you know, some of them come in with tags and you're just like, why have you tagged a lot there? You know, like a lot of people don't sort of understand. You know, what happens is, you know, just overnight there'll be 120 boats that turn up and, you know, they're all trying to figure out where to park and generally, you know, the skipper is on the boat and he's just sitting in the haven waiting to be launched and the crew runs down and parks their car and just, you know, and a lot of cars and trailers get parked over driveways and, you know, we've had our neighbours, you know, they can't even get into their driveway because some wallies park their car over it. And the problem is that we call it bluefin fever. They don't do it intentionally. They just run and they want to get back to the boat and get on the boat and get out there. And I don't know, I think we're getting, I'm seeing a lot of boats coming down from Whakatane, just launching from there and coming down, even trailer boats, a podokee, the groynes there, that's opened up now. And so there'd be a few coming out of there. And like, I think it's, you know, if they can use those fishing maps to find, you know, where the fish are sort of down there, they'll be down there and, you know, that would ease it up. But also I think, you know, I think from what I'm seeing is the biomass is increasing and, you know, that, you know, people will be able to catch them, you know, closer to where they live. Certainly I know Gizzy and Napier's been going off. So it's just a matter of, I don't know, do you want to do the four hour drive up here or do you go actually let's just launch here and we'll do a couple of hours out and then, you know, you'll be in the fish? Yeah, it's a difficult thing to, like, with the waymasters for us or for me to roster them because you just, you know, how far ahead can you see the weather or if it's a long weekend or the moon or when all these people are going to arrive, you can pick it to a certain extent. But yeah, it's quite difficult with our limited number of people. But however, we have got a couple of new waymasters. I think a lot of it is, you know, just eating it raw and just the way we prepare it and cook it, you know, in the sushimi and especially when you give it away and it's all clean and vacuum sealed and, you know, all on ice and it just holds really well. And, you know, just people who don't generally eat fish just they'll try it and they'll enjoy it, you know, and I don't know, that's pretty cool. So Bluewater Marine Research has been doing this national survey on southern bluefin tuna since 1990. Bluewater Marine Research has been doing a national survey on bluefin tuna since 2018. And those surveys are quite important. They're the only national recreational catch survey that's run every year for any species in New Zealand. And it's reported to the Commission for Conservation of Southern Bluefin Tuna as part of New Zealand overall catch. And just recently, this year, they have increased the allowance for recreational fishes to 69 tonnes, which is the hardest estimate we got from the last survey. So having good information on catch is really important as it means the government can allow for our catch and we don't run into trouble about exceeding the allowance or complaints about that. And also we're collecting good information on the size and distribution of fish and collecting odourless for ageing as part of the stock assessment work that has been done by the Commission. So if you get asked to contribute to the survey, please do. Of course, we have a limited number of people to weigh the fish, but there are fewer and fewer fish being weighed. More guys are gutting, gilling and icing them out at sea, which is fantastic because it's a much better quality of fish. And it also saves us a lot of work. We're trying to get the message across that if someone doesn't look after their fish and it comes in in a bad state, it's not ice, we just won't weigh it. I'd really like to congratulate the recreational sector on what they're doing with the fishery. They've gone from that bull rush mentality to actually a sports fishery now. And I totally applaud what the game fishing clubs and the recreational fishers are doing themselves. They're doing a fantastic job. They're looking after the species. If you're going to harvest the bluefin tuna, you want to get maximum recovery out of it. And if you're going to release it, release it in the right way so it's got the best chance of survival. But I applaud the recreational sector and what they're doing. They've really taken the sustainability of their fishery to heart and they're doing the right thing. So yeah, my hat's off to the guys. Awesome, mate. I'm just stopping the recording. So I think the main link is eddies and you can see quite strong eddies off the end of East Cape and that's holding the bait and the food and the bluefin tuna will go where the food is. But they've also been moving around up that coast and arriving off East Cape sort of June, July for probably forever. So it's also part of ingrained into their migratory behaviour. Yeah, I understand people, you know, spend effort and time to go to remote places to catch these fish and they want something to bring home. They also want a good experience and to get that, make that continue, you should look after the fishery. And there's no need to take or keep fishing until everyone's caught a fish and killed a fish. I mean, you can share your catch. There's plenty of meat on a big bluefin tuna. And if the fish are in good condition and you can either tag it or just release it, that's also going to be good for the future. Yeah, we've had some good results from tagging. We've put a number of conventional tags in bluefin tuna for many years. CSIRO and the Commission for Conservation of Southern Bluefin Tuna have done thousands, thousands and thousands of tags, which have been really valuable for tracking movement and things, but they haven't done very many in New Zealand. So it's quite interesting to see where the fish from New Zealand end up. Tagging shouldn't be in the side of the fish, but you want to tie on the body, probably back by the second dorsal fin, and that avoids any damage to the lateral lines or the sentry system or the major vessels, blood vessels. And it's also more visible if a fish comes in on its side or something. You can see that the fish has got a tag on. And so if you get a tagged fish and you want to release it, we'd like you to remove the tag or cut the part of the tag off with the number on the end of it before you release it and obviously report it. We've had a few bluefin tuna recaptured with tags, but we haven't had the release information. So it's also important to send the cards in after you tag the fish either to your club or onto the internet on FishtagNZ.co.nz. Those catches there. We use trophy lures. We quite like them. We use RJ lures, Pakulas. I mean, to be fair, some of our biggest fish have been caught on lures. I couldn't even tell you what name they are because they were at the bottom of a lure bag and I thought, oh, they'll be all right. We'll just put them out for a tuna and they've caught quite good fish. I don't know. My theory is some lures run better behind some boats. Like my neighbour, Mike, he's got a couple of favourites that he runs all the time and he catches a lot of fish with those lures. Every time I run them, they don't get hit. So I don't understand why. And then it's vice versa. But these fish aren't too fussy. They'll take any lure you put in front of them. Probably take everything. But the smaller is slightly smaller, not too small. But then I think someone got one on a 5.5 Zooka yesterday. So they will come in and take small lures. I guess I've got my set ones that I run. At the moment, the last couple of days I've been skunked, but I've got a mate with me, Stachie. He's wanting to try these Australian, I don't know what they are. They're a softbait thing, but they run pretty good. It's quite interesting because I'll get the radar on. Some of the gunboats, I'll be like, oh, how fast are they going and just match their speed. But to be honest, sometimes it's a bit hard to keep a constant speed because you've got a big swell. Generally, I aim for around the 7, 7.5, somewhere around there. But we've caught fish going a lot quicker. I remember one day we were hooked up to a fish and we were just in gear dealing to another fish on the deck and one of the boys just put a lure out and bang, so it was pretty cool. The problem is you can have a lot of stuff out and then if you don't have a big crew, there's a lot of stuff to bring in. So typically, last year I got into running a few daisy chains. I know a lot of the guns will be running dredges and that, but then you'll get someone going out and they'll only have two rods and bang, both of them go off. I remember we were coming in, I think we were in about the 300 and I just saw a big school just jumping out in front of us. That was about four or six years ago. Even this year, there's been a lot of reports of fish in 300, but we're all out over the 1,000 metre line. In the last couple of days, the hotspot's been on the 1,100, but then there'll be guys catching them at 1,400, 1,600. I guess the problem is someone hooks a fish and then everyone starts working that area, so then that becomes quite a busy area. Just touching on this tuna storm at Mike, how it all came about was we've always wanted, like, Sakatani was always known as the tuna capital of New Zealand, like with the yellowfin and things like that. I was a little bit young, I sort of missed the peak of the yellowfin, I think that was in the late 90s, early 2000s. I heard all these stories about the great tuna tournament that we've had here in Sakatani and thousands of people in a marquee. I'm on the committee of the fishing club there in Sakatani and me and my mate Dean were on the committee and we thought, with the southern bluefin, you need a few things for a good tournament, but the main thing is the fish. In the middle of the winter, we have all these fish pouring up the coastline and I thought that obviously Waihao Bay is right where it's all happening, but it's fairly small, you know what I mean? You've got Waihao Bay and Te Kaha, haven't got the hugest fishing clubs and parking and all those issues like that, whereas the next best place is Sakatani and I thought, why not give it a crack? The fish are there, we've got the facilities, let's go. The fishermen are pouring up the, pouring from, you know, it starts coming from the South Island, north of Auckland and if we can get a decent enough prize pool and some decent rules, we might be able to just pull this off. Sure enough, that first year, we had close to 300 anglers turn up. We filled the puddle, it was bloody awesome. That's unreal. For winter, just to let those listening know, what is a normal club night in winter for Sakatani? How many people are in there normally? It's always a battle in winter. We always sit around the committee room each month and go, how are they going to get the punters in the door? You're thinking of all these things. We never thought in our wildest dreams that we were going to just absolutely fill the club. I remember at the prize giving for that tournament, we were going down to party hire and hiring bar leaners and we just physically couldn't fit people in the door for this just in the middle of winter on a cold winter's night. It was pretty cool to be a part of. It was pretty wicked. The fishing that first trip, I was down there and it was what, probably four fish that were weighed for that tournament in the end? Yeah, it was hard fishing. It was really hard fishing. You never know when to run a tournament like that. It was fairly early. We had it last year. It was the 20th of June, I think. Because of the weather, that's another issue with this. It's just a bit of an issue with the tournament and trying to hold a tournament in the middle of the winter. It's just an issue with the weather, especially out on that remote coast there. It actually got pushed back three weeks, that tournament. When we advertised the tournament, we had postponement dates. Just because of that weather. I said to the guys on the committee, I said, look, the fishermen are going to turn up regardless. As long as there's two or three days of fat weather, they're going to be here. You know what I mean? Yeah. You had a successful first year, so this is the second year for the tournament and it's coming up soon. Yeah, that's right. It's taken a big leap this year. I think last year, the heaviest tuna got five grand and it's up to 50 this year. It's taken a hell of a leap this year. Of course, that's attracted a whole lot of anglers and I think it's not far off reaching max capacity. It's going to be pretty cool to see everyone turn up. We just got to keep our fingers and toes crossed for a nice weather window. So the fish bring in the anglers, but the anglers also bring in the sponsors and it's the sponsors that make these kinds of things happen, isn't it? That's right. That's right, Mike. Just a big shout out to Jason Hubbard. He's got Hubbard contracting. He was behind us right from the word go, which was pretty cool. I went to him last year, three or four months before the tournament, came up with a silly idea in the middle of winter running a tournament. He just said, yeah, I'm with you the whole way. So it was pretty neat to get his backing and he's backed it once again this year. So it was bloody awesome. I think everyone I've asked, everyone I've approached, Mike, has been right behind us. So it's been bloody awesome. Yeah, yeah. So last year, you guys included kaiake. Can you tell us a bit about that? Yeah, that's right, Mike. So with the fish that were coming in and getting weighed in, we were filleting the fish for the anglers. So there's tuna were coming in, gill and gutter, they'd been on ice. And then me and Dean were down there with the kaiake trailer, filleting these fish, which were in beautiful condition. We then vacuum packed them. And then if the anglers didn't want the heads in frames, we were just working with the local iwi and putting it out on the radio stations and stuff like that. And the community were coming down and getting these beautiful southern bluefin wings and heads and the frames and all the off cuts. Like there was just absolutely nothing going to waste, which was bloody awesome, you know. So it worked really, really well. Yeah. Yeah, Whakatane seems to be looking at fishing comps just a little bit differently these days. So you've done that, which is so awesome. And I'm 100 percent behind you with that. But you also had like a kina eating competition for one comp. Yeah, we did. That's right. Yeah, we had the kaiake tournament, which is really cool. So like I'm a pretty mad keen diver as well. So we had a we had a packle crayfish section and a red crayfish section. But for something different, we had the top 10 heaviest kinas. And I think we had something like 400 kinas come across the way station. Yeah, which which was pretty cool. So these guys are going out and picking the biggest 10 kinas. So it was bloody awesome, actually. I think the biggest 10 come from White Island. But it was amazing. Just a bit of information there around kinas. The shells, what we learned was the shells at White Island were smaller, but they were a lot thicker. So they, you know, these big kinas come from the Rouse and like our close to Islands, they have these bigger bodies, but they had a lot thinner shells. But the ones at White Island were smaller, but had super thick shells. So whether or not the sulphur or anything like that's got something to do with it, I don't know. But yeah, it was an interesting tournament that it was really, really popular with the community. So looking forward for that one next year or this year. Your president, Hayden Johnson, told me something like 100 new members came out of that tournament just by doing something a bit different. The club got 100 new members. Yeah, just created this whole new group. And I organized a kina eating competition, which we we advertised over the radio and entrants came in, obviously, because we had all these kinas come in from the way station. And then we had a kina eating competition, you know, so we had these people that weren't even into fishing at all, really, you know what I mean? And they turned up for a kina eating competition. Oh, the fishing club, this is cool. And how do we sign up here and things like that. So that was pretty wicked. And I think what did they get? They got a $500 giveaways voucher, like just a local fish and chip shop. So that was bloody awesome. Yeah. Created a hell of a moment. Awesome, bro. That's perfect. I'll end that one there as well.