Episode 21 Body - Ewan

Two friends discuss a recent Spartan Ultra 50K race. They talk about the challenges of the race, including rugged terrain, obstacles, and extreme temperatures. They highlight the importance of resilience and mental fortitude in overcoming these challenges. They also discuss the significance of having a guide or mentor to help navigate difficult situations. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the importance of preparation, perseverance, and seeking guidance in achieving success in various aspects of life. So I'm super excited, I've got my best friend, my dear friend, my brother, from another mother, you and I, Neimeyer, welcome back to the show. We're excited to have you here, man. And really glad to be back on. Must be doing something halfway right to be allowed back on. Exactly, the last couple weeks, we try to prep a week to two weeks in advance on what our content's gonna look like, what our message is gonna look like, because we want to provide as much value, as much impact, and serve you to our greatest abilities. And here recently, if you haven't followed my journey, on Facebook, I just recently ran a Spartan Ultra 50K. And I sent it to my best friend, you, and I said, hey, what should our next episode, our topic be? And he said, like he always does, such a great job at breaking things down and sharing a different perspective, he said, hey, why don't I, why don't me and you have a conversation? Why don't me and you, why don't I interview you, ask you a handful of questions, so people listening to this can relate and resonate and align this with how you ran the race and how this aligns with life in general. And I said, that's brilliant. Yeah, I am very curious. So it's a little bit of insight, or not insight, but the 50K is 31 miles, right? 31 miles, a marathon is 26.2 miles. This is 31 miles of grueling obstacles, 60 obstacles? 61. 61 obstacles, 31 miles, 50K, and Sean is so humble with it. He came first in his division. This is a race, there's a bunch of people involved, and he got first, so wrap your mind around that. Not only did he complete 31 miles of madness, it started in the dark, flashlights, couldn't even see where they were going, and he beat some high-level athletes and came first. I've known Sean for 12-plus years, and this one, I wasn't surprised that he got first, but when I really just think about what that entails to do, I'm like, it's shocking to know that someone can do that. Like, I know what it takes to win, and something like that is just mind-blowing. Yeah, so I just had to know, had to dig in deep, that what was this whole journey like in the process? I mean, what did you learn, Sean, about yourself and this 50K, this 50K Ultra, the whole process, journey? Yeah, man, appreciate the town work, by the way, yeah. Facts. So, a few different things, and as I was prepping for this yesterday, when you had brought some of these questions to my attention, I had to really slow things down, because I'm the type of guy that's like, I don't typically prep for things, especially like a Spartan Ultra 50K. Like, how do you prep for that, right? And what does that look like? Well, if you don't prep for that, and if you don't prepare for it, you're just not gonna finish. So, you and being able to break these things down, ask the right questions, it's really allowed me to reflect, and some of these things that I have brought up today that I wrote down that I'm gonna share with you is what I apply in all areas of my life as well, and my hope is for you to be empowered as well, and reflect on your own life. I just wanna set this up before we keep going. Me and Sean were having breakfast after our workout this morning, and we were just prepping, and I said, well, how do we kind of want this to go? And he said, hold on a sec. He comes back and shows me a Word document where he has written out kind of the whole sequence of what happened, the questions we asked beforehand, and I looked at it, and I was like, Sean, this is how you do everything. This is how you build your businesses, this is how you have your real estate, this is how you have your investments, and this is how you keep on succeeding at things, and this is the blueprint. I'm like, I could just replace Spartan Ultra 50K with building a business, or your relationship with Kendra, and it's just how everything, how you do one thing is how you do everything, and so I just wanna set that up, and when we're discussing this today, I mean, you can literally, everything that he's saying, you can look into your own life, and how do you structure it? We all do the same things over and over again, and we get the same results, and if we want different results, we have to do things differently, and what has been your game plan? Whether you know it or not, that game plan has got you to where you are. If you're not getting what you want out of life, look at the game plan. So we're gonna dissect Sean's, and how he keeps succeeding through his failures, and to become, and to win, so yeah, continue. Love it. So the first one that I have, that first came to mind is resilience, right? The definition, to pull this off of Google, is the capacity to withstand, or to recover quickly from difficulties. So to give you an example, when I was running Spartan Ultra 50K, there was rugged terrain, there was hills, there was rocks, there was riverbeds, there was cliffs, there was mountains, some would call it hills, depends on where you're from, and like Ewan said, there's 61 obstacles that test your mind, body, and strength. Another thing that I didn't really consider, but my wife was bringing up to my attention several times was the degrees. So when we first started at 6.45 in the morning, it was, when we lined up on the line, it was 6.45 a.m., and it was dark outside. So we had to have flashlights, right? And so if you don't prep for that, then you're going through it blindfolded. And so, man, it's so fascinating and interesting to me, it's like, so many times in my life where I've showed up in the different areas of my life blindfolded, and I didn't know, didn't have a guide, didn't have a map, and so you choose to have a light for the next hour while it's dark, or you choose to not have the light. Which one are you gonna pick, right? Well, I'm gonna pick the one with the light. And I've learned this the hard way. So I had the light, and I was able to jump in front of a lot of the guys that didn't have the light. And so, anyway, long story short, 65 degrees, and at the time that we started the race, and so by 12 o'clock, one o'clock in the afternoon time, it hit 95 degrees by 12 o'clock. So for me, it was like, the resilience behind that had played a big factor in everything that I needed to conquer, whether that was the darkness with no light or light, whether that was the hydration, the nutrition, the obstacles, the challenges, the degrees, and all these were different things that were just obstacles along the way and challenges that I was either prepared for or not prepared for, but because of my resilience, I was able to make it happen. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, the guys that didn't have the light, they don't know the difference. And they may have been able to look over and see, oh, I wish I had brought one of those, but they don't truly know what it is to have one for themselves, or they could have gone their own route, perhaps. They probably had to follow someone else with the light, which, if you don't have it, you are lost in the dark. And if you have your own, man, it's like giving a, you teach a man a fish and he can feed himself, and if you teach other men how to fish, then they can feed the whole world, you know? So it's the same concept. I've run around without the light on in my life before, and there's always some element of that being true till the day you die. But knowing how to get it, like yourself, you said there's been times you haven't had that light, and now you know. That's probably the first thing we're looking for, like whether it's business, relationships. I'm in the dark right now. At least I know what that feels like. How can I find that flashlight as soon as possible? Is it asking a question to someone else? Is it looking at someone that's succeeded in that area? I'm gonna follow someone with the light until I can get my own. It really ties into, man, it's a physical thing you did, but it's so true in all aspects of life. It sounds cheesy, right, that we're saying, oh, he's just related to light too. Follow someone in the dark, yeah, it is cheesy, but it's also very true. That's just a fact. You might be lost right now listening to this podcast. There's a certain area of life, you're not getting it. The advice here would be to, man, where is the flashlight that you can go find that can put light on a situation where you get an outcome that you want? I think just to build off of that, so one of my, the two guys that I ran with, Michael and Chris, so Michael and Chris, Chris didn't have a light, and then Michael didn't. Michael had a light, so to your point, Chris had to stay with Michael because of the light. He was able to see, so he was that guide. Interesting. He was able to guide him the first 30, 45 minutes in that race, so I thought that was pretty insightful that he shared that versus the people that without the light that were just, that had to stay behind the pack to see where the other people. Yeah, they could see where they were going, but they were limited to as fast as the person with the light. If you want to go at your own pace or go your own direction to achieve something, then yeah, you gotta get your own. Yeah. Ass. Yeah. We didn't talk about that. They got it. It's making me think right now, there's a number of places. I now know, I've been kind of working on them myself. I need to go find the flashlight, and we all have the answer to that. It's just realizing what it is and then turning it on. Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah, continue. What was after that, that resilience portion of it? You've experienced other things in life where you knew that's what was gonna be required to do something difficult like this. What was kind of the next thing? Yeah, so another one that I had written down was mental fortitude, which is the ability to have the strength in the face of adversity. So in other words, when you're knocked down, you get back up and you fight. So for me, it was out there, I was tired, I was sometimes bored. I mean, you're running a seven, eight, nine, 10-hour race, and it's hard to keep your eye on the goal, on what you're trying to accomplish when you're out there, when your body's fatigued, when your mind's all over the place. Just for frame of reference, how long did it take you? So it took seven hours and 39 minutes. And I asked John, I already knew the answer to that, because I really wanted to know, how long did it take the average person? And he said 12 plus. So a lot of people are doing 14 hours, so he finished twice as fast as the regular person. 31 miles, seven and a half hours is unbelievable. Just had to throw that in there. Yeah, so the mental fortitude behind that, so in other words, I just had to keep reminding myself to show up when I didn't feel like it. So the times that I was fatigued, the times that my form started struggling. And what's interesting and insightful is because now I'm reflecting back, and this relates to so many areas of my life, and whether that's when Kendra gets home in the afternoon time from work, and I'm tired or exhausted or I'm hungry, well, am I throwing in the towel going, not having a conversation with her, or going to Netflix or scrolling my phone, or am I staring it down, embracing the suck, going, hey, this is where I need to step up. And so it's the same thing in racing. If I didn't step up, I could potentially get hurt. I could potentially fall down and break something or not finish the race. So that's what, to me, the mental fortitude is when you're tired, you're struggling, you're bored, you're exhausted, you're fatigued, you're hungry. That is when you have to have that mental fortitude, that strength to be invincible. We're gonna talk about expectations here in a little bit, but did you expect that portion right there? Did you know that was probably coming and just being ready for that specific thing you just said, or was that not a surprise, but did you suddenly realize, oh, there's that thing, and now I need to handle that? What was that? Did you know that was coming, to need to be like that? Yeah, great question. So I didn't know. I wasn't intentionally like, oh, there it is, I'm here. When one of the things that I have learned around surrounding myself with other individuals where I struggled with, which is running these last nine or 10 months, good buddy of mine, Corey Wells, ran through my head multiple times during the race. And one of the things he's always told me was, when you're tired and you're fatigued and you're exhausted, this is the time where you have to embrace the suck. Well, I didn't understand that to a certain degree, and now that I do, to me it means this is where you want to embrace that mental fortitude. This is where you want to embrace and do the things that you normally wouldn't do when you're tired, exhausted, fatigued, and exhausted. And so I remember him coming through my mind. I remember him saying, embrace the suck. This is where you need to focus on your form. So the times that I was tired, the times that I was exhausted, the times that I didn't want to focus on my form, I needed to do it anyway, because it was going to allow me to keep moving forward. So hard to do. When you're exhausted and it gets hard, and think about this, I'm in medical equipment sales, and I mentioned it in one of the other podcasts before, but it's when the time to talk to the right person, the difficult conversation, the one that nobody wants to have, and you know that's what you need to do, some mental fortitude, and you're talking about this very difficult race, and it directly links to my performance in sales. It might directly link to that time when you're in a heated argument or conversation with your spouse, husband or wife, and it's going south, and you know you could let the ego go, apologize for your part, and be like, hey, calm us down, or hey, you know what, I shouldn't have said that. That's mental fortitude, because most people, me and you, both discussed in the past, when we're young and dumb, we would want to dominate and control that conversation, and win that conversation on all intents and purposes to just shut it down. That's what we wanted to do, and our wives will just have to live with it, and we realize that is a miserable way to live. It's taken us mental fortitude to say, that's the ego, I'm going to apologize, even though every screaming bone in my body says don't. It takes that fortitude to say, my bad, apologies, I will submit here, and that mental fortitude you're talking about, it shows up everywhere. It's needed to have a quality life. Agreed, man, agreed. To give you an example, speaking of, I'll share this really quickly. The day we got back from the competition, which was Saturday night, so I had ran this seven, eight hour race on Saturday, and my wife wanted to drive back for four hours, and so she drove back, right, and I'm sitting in the back seat, and so we get home, we go to sleep, we wake up the next morning, and, I'm sorry, no, it was the night we got back. Was it the night? No, no, it was the next day, and so I remember me and her had a conversation, and I was still recovering, and if you've ever ran a race, if you've ever been fatigued and exhausted, it takes a couple days to recover, and the next day I was still feeling it, for the most part, so I was out of my character, meaning I was still kind of on edge, I was fatigued, my body was. Easy to be cranky. Yeah, easy to be cranky, thank you. And so I remember my wife asking me, she was sitting on the couch, and I had planned to put the vlog together for the race, and I was exhausted, I was tired, and I didn't want to do anything for anybody else. You're not at your best. I wasn't at my best, and I just wanted to focus on Sean right now, and healing so I could become my best. Well, I went and made my dinner, Sunday night, and my wife, thinking, hey, I went and supported you at this race, I did all this video for you, I drove back, right? And she was completely right about all the things that she had supported me and done for me, and reflecting back, she asked me, she's like, hey, would you mind heating up my dinner? Okay, yeah, I'll heat up the dinner. Sure, no problem. I went back to the couch to lay back down in the evening time, and she's like, oh, you're not gonna bring it to me? Keep going, dude, I gotta know how this ends up. So as you can imagine, if you're listening to this, and you know me and Kendra, and if you don't know me and Kendra, two types of personalities, I'm exhausted, I'm fatigued, I'm thinking it's all about me right now, you should be taking care of me, but no, in that moment, I, what had happened was, is we got in a mini little argument, and it escalated, and I said, well, that's not what you asked me to do. You asked me to heat it up. And you would never do this at your best. I know this. 100%, yes. And so, I went back after that, which at that point, it's already too far, right? So I went back, and I said, okay, no problem. But at that point, I already ruined it, because I had said something when I should have just went and did it anyways, right? Well, fast forward, going back, hurting her feelings, within a matter of moments, I don't remember how long it was, I realized that I was in the wrong. I realized that I was fatigued, and exhausted, and not in my best self to best serve her, and she had done all these different, these things in the last 48 hours to support me, and I told her, I said, look, I'm sorry if I hurt you. I know that I hurt you. I know I should have approached this a different way. I'm not making up any excuses. I love you, and I hope you can forgive me. And you know what she texted me back? What'd she say? She said, I love you. I'm not mad at you. Oh, man, that's awesome, man. So, but. And thanks for sharing that, man. First off, that's super vulnerable, and first off, how many people out there are willing to share a story like that with people? I think we need more of this, especially for men, I think, to be vulnerable, share that stuff, because it's happening in everybody's relationship. If you tell me that's not, somewhere, maybe you are the kind of person, husband or wife, that would remember to do that, and you'd be like, oh, man, how could you forget? But there's somewhere in your relationship where you're not doing something, or you didn't show up the best version of yourself because you're cranky or tired. Guaranteed, if you, you gotta look hard. If you don't think you do, or are not doing that somewhere, you've gotta look harder. You don't see it, you actually have a blind spot. I know that's happened to me a hundred times, and I keep finding blind spots in myself. I'm like, there it is again. I was looking after number one, and I wasn't being considerate. So, yeah, great, great job being vulnerable there and sharing that with us and helping us reflect on that. You know, a lot of people are gonna be like, man, you know, whoop-de-doo, you won a 31-mile race, good for you. Well more impressed with how you handled that situation. That could've been a week's worth of having a grudge against each other. A lot of people, a lot of relationships would do that. Y'all got that resolved in a very short period of time, and that's just a wonderful, wonderful thing, man. But back to the boring 31-mile race. You know, that was the juicy stuff right there. But yeah, yeah. So we were talking mental fortitude there. You know, what else would you add on to the journey of this ultra? So another one that I wrote down was perseverance. So basically the persistence in doing something despite the difficulty or delay in achieving success. So the old Sean would've, like you had said, relating it to the my marriage situation to Kendra is I would've waited multiple days before dropping the pride and the ego and apologizing. But the perseverance in knowing, hey, look, this is how I'm feeling, and this is how I'm showing up. This is not okay. I need to stare it down. I need to be persistent in how I'm showing up for her, which is a better husband, who I need to become. So this is what the better version of the husband looks like, which is the guy that dropped the ego, dropped the pride, and said, I'm sorry, I love you. I'm not perfect, I'm imperfect, but I'm gonna work on this moving forward. It's interesting this thing when you have that holding that grudge, and then when you fight on that ego, then you're back to living life again. It can be good. If you were to compare the two, there's two separate world timelines, and there's the one holding the grudge for a number of days, and then the one that showed up this past weekend, and the forgiveness was there, and you're back to living and enjoying and loving, and this version over here is still in the grudge zone. Which one is more appealing, and which one is filled with creativity and joy, right? I mean, it's a no-brainer on which one you're gonna pick, and we all do it. I think, to me, the goal is to, it's gonna happen, no matter what. We're human beings, we always mess up. It's how you handle it, and in my game, the way I think of it, and you're doing the same thing, is what's the fastest I can condense that to get back to living? Stop existing, get rid of the grudges, lower the ego, and get back to love. That's brilliant what you said, man. You hit the nail right on the head, and that is where perseverance comes into play, right? You know, you've got to be persistent, and if I was not persistent in that race, that 31 miles, 61 obstacles, and 90 degree heat, with only 16 to 20 ounces of water on my backpack, when I hit 25 miles in, then the outcome wouldn't have been what it was, right? Which is getting to that, almost to the destination, right? And so, it's the same thing with the outcome of, with what we're talking about with Kendra, and that situation. I think it's perseverance to get to this level. Exactly. Yes, it's the persistence, right? And so, it's having, I think that aligns with exactly what we're talking about, whether it's the race, or any area of life, finances, that's gonna show up. Yeah, yes, little man. So, even when you're faced with tired, exhausted, you're thinking about quitting, cutting your race short, for me, it wasn't even an option, right? That's the way I look at it. Yeah, it's beautiful, man. Yeah, so I got another one for you. Another one I wrote down was determination, which, for me, it was, it was the determination to, to not only cross the finish line, but give it all that I had, and leave it all on that mountain. And so, that's the way I try to show up with all areas of my life. Like, did I do everything? Am I gonna regret anything that I'm doing? And I wanna make sure that I'm not regretting some of the decisions that I'm making. So, if I say something to somebody, and this isn't easy, this is a challenge. So, I'm trying to be, so my determination is like, the way I show up, am I leveling up? Am I living? Am I alive? How I'm showing up? Because I don't wanna regret when I reflect back on how I talked to that person, how I showed up for that person, or that event, or that community, or that race, or whatever it may be. I want to make sure that I'm alive, because that is what allows me to be, to live life to its fullest, to inspire, inspire people around me to live life to their, to live life to their fullest, and become a better version of themselves. So, that's my determination. Does that make sense? Yeah, you know, perseverance and determination, it's similar, but different. You persevere to get through something, but the determination, the determination makes you finish. And that perseverance and determination, they go, they can go hand in hand, and you put them together, it's a really powerful force. Yeah, it really is, man. Yeah. Yeah, and you mentioned, like, the team that surrounded you when you went. You know, you won the race, but, man, just like your businesses, all the things, like, you always have people around you that help you get to where you're going. And how did that show up this weekend? Yeah. How'd you get there? It makes all the difference in the world. I would not be where I am today without team effort. You know, you and, it's funny because I, I have a journal, and I wrote down in my journal of all the people that are important in my life that are a part of my team. And this could be anything from my best friend, from my wife, from my accountant, from a lawyer, from an attorney, from the people that are handing me water when I'm running the Spartan Race. That's how I look at it as a team effort. And because there's, I understand, like, there's gonna be obstacle struggles and challenges and setbacks along the way. And I'm not gonna be able to get through this by myself. I have to, I have to, not rely, but I have to. You know, so many people want to do it on their own. Man, I'm putting my hand up right here. And you've done it on your own too. I remember you made this transition to just really surrounding yourself with people that can get things done, like for you, like where you're, you either don't want to do it or you don't like doing it or can do it, you'll find someone that loves that thing. It's not like you're making them. They actually already enjoy doing that thing that you don't. And you get them involved and you surround yourself with a team of that. And it's not like you had a check sheet, checklist, check sheet for this race. Like, okay, who do I need? But regardless, you still had people showing up that all had kind of their own story, right? It wasn't just, they weren't just there for you, they were there for themselves and you created that space for them to be there. And each one brought something to you. And you talked about even the people hiding in the water to you as you're running around. You don't even know them, but they are part of the whole journey. You know, I mean, that's, it's, yeah. How would you explain that in layman's terms? Because that's something you do very, very well. So the reason I have this written down, because it is, life is a team sport and that's the way I look at it. So I have been the guy that went through life by himself, a lone wolf. And now it's like, I know that I have to surround myself with the team. I know I have to, I know there's certain things that I struggle with that I have weaknesses and strengths. So for instance, when I was going through, when I was running the race, there was a transition period at 15 miles in in the race. And I set my timer to five minutes. Well, I didn't even set my timer because I had my mileage going on, my GPS on my Garmin. And so I had Isabel, one of the ladies there with us, set the timer. That's team effort. And then I had them, Isabel and Kendra. Kendra was filming, right? Catching those moments and those experiences. Without her, that doesn't, we don't get to share that with the world and reflect back on that memory. And then they were refilling my water in my backpack so I could have hydration through the rest of the course. And then filming. So I don't have them there to support me. And I don't think the outcome is what it is. And that's how I look at life. Like I have to be able to. A lot of people consider a weakness to invite people or to have people help them out. And there may have been a time where you felt that way but it's not there anymore. People either think, I don't want to put people out so I don't want to ask or I want the glory all on my own or I don't think people can do it or I don't know who can do things. But all those questions have run through your mind but you still find a way. How is it not a weakness? Let us all know that, because it's not. How in your mind can other people realize, man, why don't I just ask more people? Help me out. I was saying this to my son last night. He got a new Beyblade. This is, man, very appropriate. He's had a new Beyblade and, oh no, it wasn't Beyblade. That was another story. It was his math homework. He's good at math but he started getting really upset because he couldn't get this problem figured out. And he was almost crying. I was like, look. His name's Lachlan. I was like, you know, if you don't know how to do something, just ask someone. Just ask. You're not stuck on your own. He's stuck in his mind thinking, I don't know the answer to this. I don't know what to do. Panic stations. Starts to get upset. He's gonna be eight, so he's a kid. But do we not do that as adults? I know we do. I see it all the time. I do it myself. And I told him, the indicator is right when you start to think you can't handle it, you've tried everything on your own, go out and ask. Like, you got me, your mom, you got teachers. Nothing wrong with asking. In fact, you could slave away. You'd probably figure it out eventually after two or three hours. But why not just ask us? And we've been through it. It takes three minutes. So you just jumped the queue. It makes so much more sense to just ask people for help. Invite them to come. And when you ask people for help, what I have found is that it inspires them because they can show up and they help you. They're like, oh, this person's asking me for help. That's right. They love it. When your son asks you like, oh, my son's interacting with me, wanting my assistance, wanting my help. I know that's blissful for you. Yeah, it is. I love it. Right, I'm just smiling at your face. I'm smiling right now. And so like, when I ask Kendra, when I ask Isabel, or I ask Chris, or one of my teams to do something, and it has that sense of fulfillment of this person is serving. Because that's what they're doing. You're serving, you're impacting, you're contributing. People love that. People love that, right? And that is what Team Epic's all about. So I have done both. And I have aligned it with my purpose in life, which is to help people see that they can become the best version of themselves. And when they do that, which is simple as videoing me, or putting water in my backpack, they feel like they're a part of the team. They feel like they're serving and impacting in that small little moment. Yeah. Right? Again, two timelines. There's Sean just doing it on his own, trying to crank it up, pushing hard. And the other timeline is what just happened. All these people involved, they're all joyous. They just love the trip. They all enjoy being part of it. You had a great time. You won the race. Sean on his own, like you said, probably maybe wouldn't have won. Or even if you did, it would not have been nearly as glorious for all that was involved. So I mean, man, people listen. I'm thinking to myself, what is your timeline? The version of you cranking away on your own? Who could you ask some help for that would accelerate your progress or your line to get to your achievement, whatever your goals are? You could be there so much sooner. I think it was Tim Ferriss's, oh man, he accredited this to somebody else. I forget who it was. I think it's Karl Newport. Poor Karl Newport. But he's like, what is your 10-year plan? Write it down. And then ask yourself this question. Why can I not achieve it in six months? We put these timelines out there forever. What could you do to condense it to six months? I love that question. Because then you have to start getting your mind to, well, I'd have to do this then. I'd have to do that different. You just sped the whole thing up. You're gonna get to the same result quicker. And when you have momentum, it just makes things even easier, much, much easier than that grind of 31 miles on your own would have been way more miserable, as opposed to knowing you have that team with you. Man, totally different. It's a whole different game you're playing right there. So yeah, man, that's great that you shared that with us. So as far as you going for the race you won, what were your expectations going in? What was your thought process of, you had somewhat of an idea what to expect as you just did the Killington, what was that one called again? The Spartan, the Vermont Killington. Yeah, and that's considered the hardest one, which is like less than half. Yeah, and the distance on that one is so, how many miles was that one? Right, about 13 and some changes. 13 miles. So this one's, the ultra is almost triple. So you think about that. I mean, that's a, you had somewhat of a indicator of what to expect. So going to this one, what was your expectations? The only thing that was crossing my mind is like, I'm going to show up. I know I'm going to give it my all and I know I'm going to cross the finish line. I'm not trying for first place. I'm not, you know, I just wanted to give it all and put everything out there and leave it all out there because I know I'll be reflecting back on this and did I give it all? Did I give it my all or did I throw this out? So when I was out there, I just, to me, I knew it was mindset and I knew that I just had to keep putting one foot in front of the other. There was a time where I was going across an obstacle and I had a cut on my finger and so I forgot all about my cut on my finger and it was a pretty big dash. And one of the obstacles. How'd you get it, that cut? Making breakfast here at my house. I thought you was during the race. I did not expect that. Yeah, I was still making breakfast, okay, that's great. I punctured my pinky and yeah, it was a pretty big gash. And so it's taking several days to finally heal up. Well, anyway, on the obstacle course, I had put so much pressure on this guy that it opened it up and my entire hand was blood. I was just, and so I, but yeah, looking at that, I just kept telling myself and going back to, hey, I just need to, you know, I was okay. I wasn't obviously needing medical attention or anything like that, right? And so, but it kept on my mind, like, okay, hey, this is, I just need to keep putting one foot in front of the other and. That right there, is that not the key? Yeah, it's breaking it down. If you looked at 31 miles of bleeding, that's, you could check out, but one step after the other, you can keep going. Exactly, yeah, and so I just kept chipping away, you know, the mile by mile, and that's kind of what I looked at it for. So you didn't expect to win, and yet you did, and I remember this morning when we first got together for the workout, it was 5.30 this morning, I said, man, so tell me you won, like, what is that like? And I knew somewhat what you were probably gonna say, but I was still genuinely surprised, like, you're like, man, I knew I was just gonna enjoy the journey no matter what, and, because it's so easy to mountaintop, where, oh, if I win this, then I will feel great, but then when people get to the top, it's very empty, you're like, well, now what, what's next? Like, whether it's a big deal you're trying to do in business, or it's that, you know, a spouse that you've been chasing forever, once I have them, it will feel fantastic, life complete, fairytale story, often at the sunset, but it doesn't work like that. You end up normally feeling very unfulfilled, because fulfillment is not outside of the mind, it's inside it, and if you are expecting something out here to satisfy you long-term, it just is not available, it's not, it doesn't exist, it does not, unless you believe in God, you know, which, you know, we're not advocating that you do, but I believe in it, it's the only long-term plan for me, but as far as achievements, you gotta have a different reason than other just winning, because, well, first of all, what if you don't? And if you do, then what? You know, so you had said, you know, I just was enjoying the journey, and you already have other races lined up, we've got, or not races, but you have CG games coming up, and then we've got High Rocks, and so, it's no, your lifestyle is just to do these things. The result doesn't matter, you're just enjoying every minute of it, and man, that is blissful, and that's something we're gonna dig into deeper down in other podcasts, but it's such a great mindset, because so many people, myself included, I've, in medical sales, there's so many big deals I close, and I was like, man, it took me 18 months to close some, three years to close some deals, big deals, I got them, and I was miserable. Just, I learned, I was like, this, I cannot sustain this, I've gotta find another way, reason for pursuing what I do, and now it is day-to-day, just enjoy what I'm doing. Like, the outcomes are irrelevant, and I mean, really, that's what I heard this morning, where you're like, it doesn't really matter that I won, even though I know this, it was shocking to just hear, that's right, I forgot, it doesn't really matter if you win or not, it's just not important. Just being the best version of yourself is how you enjoy life day-to-day. So, that was kind of what you, those were your expectations. What did you discover that you didn't expect? Like, what were some of the shockers? Like, oh man, did not see that one coming, new thing to add, something I learned, something I could take away and put into effect in other areas of my life. What did you get from the race that was unexpected? Yeah, so, mile 25, I hit a wall. Like, physically, and... I'm glad you're somewhat human, not the superhuman at some point. I never heard you hit the wall before, but this is the juicy stuff right here. But in mile 25, I was so, I almost got to a point where I was so frustrated with myself, because you and I literally could not run anymore. Wow, and at this point, I had, you know... I've never been there before. I guarantee 99.99% of people listening have not been, because you're the fittest person I've ever met, the most elite athlete I've ever met. Your resting heart rate is 37. The typical Olympian's resting heart rate is a really, really good Olympian's 45. Yours is 37. That just shows the fitness level that you're capable of. For you to say you hit a wall at 25 miles is, man, you don't know what to say. That's what I wanna know right now. So, I really pushed the limit, because at mile 25, it really tested my body physically. And if you're like me going out right now, saying, okay, I'm gonna go for a jog, and then when you go out the door to do the jog, your body's not jogging. Won't do it. It won't do it, and that is very new to me, because it's something that I've always, something that I've always, something that I've always, and you said this, you and it's like, something that I've always put my mind to, I've always just done it, right? I'm gonna jump out of an airplane, and that's the choice I wanna make. I'm gonna jump out of an airplane. But it was like my body physically was not running anymore, and even when I tried to do it, it was like I kept getting put back down. Were you sure you were walking at this point? Were you just like? I walked the last five plus miles of the race. I had to, I couldn't run. My body was locked up. My hip flexors, my quads, my hamstrings, everything was tacked, everything was fatigued. What time of day was it at that point? Was it? One o'clock. Was it one o'clock in the afternoon? It was 95 degrees. So it wasn't even cold. It was like hot, hot. You couldn't move, and there's five miles, six miles left. There's a guy who's quite the athlete. Yeah, he's got at this point 20 miles, 20 minutes behind me. He's behind you, you know he's coming, and you're walking. Yeah, so, oh man. So I didn't expect that. I hit that wall, and. You find out what you're made of at this moment. Yeah, man, and that's, that was a big, I was like, because honestly what was going through my mind was, I didn't prepare, you know, like my body. You couldn't prepare for this. Negative thoughts started coming through my mind. Wow, really? You're not. I never hear this from you. It's so good for you to share this right now, because it's so important for people to hear. First, so I know I told you like, hey, first place is not, but to a certain degree, it's like. It's part of the game. It's part of the game. If you play a game, you would like to win. Yeah, exactly, 100%. And because I hit this, and I didn't expect to hit this wall, I was like, I'm gonna be so mad at myself reflecting back on this if this guy passes me. So I kid you not, I was, at mile 25 even, those next six miles, every person that was near me, I was looking to see if it was him. Wow. Yeah. Because you come this far, I mean, if you come that far, it would be just great to be first. Exactly. So yeah, there was something at stake. Yeah. Yeah, I would love to, man, I would love to know what he was thinking. What was he like at that point? We need to have him on the podcast. Yeah. If I know his name. But yeah, man, keep going, dude. This is crazy. So when I hit that, so when I hit that wall, at that point, like I said, everything was hurting, fatigue, tach. I had ran out of water at that point because it was hot outside. So that was another thing I didn't expect. Wow. Six miles to go, all this is happening to my body. And all this is happening at once, dude. Yeah. And so I ran out of water, I ran out of electrolytes, I ran out of, I had all my GoJells. The GoJells, yeah. Apple pie. Yeah, apple cinnamon. Apple cinnamon. They were all gone. All my food was gone. So I had nothing, and I was trying to drink from my backpack, and nothing was coming out. So I had to drink my saliva. So. God, man. With that happening, because it was getting hotter in the day, and that was going through my mind, like, is this guy gonna pass me, and am I gonna hit the finish line? Am I gonna be able to physically make it past this? And this is when I started, this is when I started like praying, heavily. Man, tell us more about that, man. We talked a little bit about that at breakfast. I didn't know, when you started talking, I was like, wow. So yeah, let's hear about that, man. And you know me, I'm not the type of guy that's gonna push Christianity, or God, or prayer, and stuff like that. It's something I'm in the works as well, trying to level up, and be more intentional and mindful about. And when I hit this wall, and I've always been a guy that's prayed, got on my knees, and had faith and belief. But there was something different about this time where. You had to rely. I had to. No other option. 100%. I had to rely, yes. This is biblical, some biblical characters in these moments, you know. And I remember being in my own head, and praying to God, and I, and I told you this earlier before the podcast, I said, I started smiling. And that's all I was thinking about for several miles was, God, give me the strength, give me the endurance, give me the stamina to make it through this race. I know I don't have this business, but you're gonna carry me through this. All glory goes to you, God. Wow. And I don't, you know, I don't rely on that. I know you don't really say that, so for you to, it was all that you had left. It's all that I had left, man. I feel like my back was against the wall. I feel like, you know, obviously I didn't expect this. I hit this wall, and I escaped the audience. Was it similar to when, because you mentioned multiple times about your past, and you had been fired a couple times before. Your back was against the wall. I'm just curious, was there any correlation? Because you were out there on your own when you were let go, before you started your own insurance business. Makes it very similar. No water, no co-jails left, nothing left, nothing prepared for this, it was uncharted territory. Any similarities there at all that you could tie in there, or was it just totally, you know, physical, separate? I guess you weren't, at that point, you weren't really, had that relationship with God, to maybe even talk to Him at that point, so you were all alone. I was all alone. When you were doing those things. I didn't have a relationship with God, I didn't have, there wasn't faith, there wasn't, you know, I didn't have individuals like you that came into my life. I was able to share that word, and read my devotions, and go to church, and didn't really do a lot of those things, right? I was building it up, I was so consumed. That's all, I was consumed with the destination, I was consumed with the existing, and I didn't understand that there was a higher power, and now that I understand there's a higher power. Makes a difference, huh? Makes a huge difference. I'm like, you know, and it got me through that dang race. Wow, that's amazing, that's spectacular, man. So all the glory goes to God. Yeah, it does. It just is my higher power. Yeah, so amazing, man. I love to hear that. Anything else unexpected that came out of that, or you'd say that's probably the biggest thing? Yeah, so two things. You know, I didn't know I was gonna secure the number one spot in my division for the Spartan Oath in the 50K. That was just the cherry on top, and that just solidified everything that what I'm talking about makes perfect sense, right? Yeah. Believing in a higher power, having faith, having a belief, and what's the byproduct of that? First place. That's the way I look at it. And then I also look at that with like, what's the byproduct of me showing up in this version of myself for my wife? Happy marriage, right? Same thing with finances. The byproduct is, if I can provide value, contribute, serve other individuals, and just provide value like this, as much as I can, what's the byproduct of that, right? You could've quit at mile 25. When you ran out of water, cut hands, you could've just stopped, and you could've just stopped your business. Oh, it's not working out. When it gets rocky, oh, we don't have to be together. But this blueprint, like I said at the start, it's how you've done everything in life, and this is how you end up achieving, because these difficult times always come, and so many people have not learned these lessons yet, and they keep not crossing the finish line, or they keep not getting the results they want. And it is available to all people, because you've learned. I mean, if you've been listening to this podcast all the way through, we've discussed, you didn't have these things at some point, and you've compounded, laid the bricks on getting to be the best version of yourself, year over year, day after day, and this is what shows up when you're persistent and determined and have all these things in your life. So cool. When you are at that point, at that fork in the road, right, and you have that back up against the wall, and you are wanting to quit and throw this out, to me, in my mindset, is, depending on the situation that you're in, because you may be in a bad situation, right? Think about it. If I'm at mile 25, and my leg's broken, I remember passing a guy up there, and his leg was swollen, dude. Yeah. Probably good advice to stop at that moment and maybe get a doctor to come in. I don't know. Yeah, depending on the situation, right, and so, at that point, it's like, do you look at it as a failure? Do you look at it as throwing in the towel? No, I would look at it as a stepping stone. Yeah. You know, my good friend, Chris, he said this publicly, that his goal was to cross the finish line. Well, he ended up doing half of it. He hurt his knee. Chris, 53, and I hope I'm in as good shape as Chris when I'm 53. Guy's phenomenal. Super inspirational. Yeah. But, and it's like I told him, I said, man, these are just stepping stones. You're gonna be able to reflect that, and you've learned so much from, and you're gonna be able to take away from what, from what you applied out there in that journey. Tilted 16 miles. 16 miles. Yeah, of grueling obstacles. So, a lot of people look at it as like, failure, or who's gonna judge me? I look at it from a standpoint of like, if that happens, then I'm just looking at it as, okay, well, I know what to do next time. Yeah, coming back. Coming back. Yeah, I love that, man. Yeah, and that kind of ties into, man, your emotions and vulnerabilities around the whole thing. You know, just kind of coming to an end. You know, what could you speak to to that on what it felt like? And, yeah, I guess just being vulnerable the whole way through. Yeah, man, so I'm the type of guy, when it comes to emotions and vulnerabilities, I struggle with it. I have to be, every time I share, even on this podcast, and in person, in one-on-one, like I've always had the mentality of like, oh, this makes me look weak. This makes me look like the guy next to me is gonna have a competitive advantage. And so, what I've learned is, by sharing that vulnerability and those emotions, it draws people in closer, right? Because they're typically, maybe, going through the same thing as well. Yeah. And so, with all that being said, I'm also the type of guy that, once I commit to something, once I commit, if I say I'm gonna finish something, you're gonna have to, like, you're gonna have to drag me out of there. You're gonna have to drag me out of there in a stretcher for me to not cross that finish line. And I apply this because, if I don't have that mentality, then it's too easy for me to cop out in other areas of my life, right? You have to truly know, this is my limit. This is, because to stop early, there's a difference between, you need to stop and, because you had to, as opposed to, this is getting a little too hard for me, I think I'm gonna stop, which is most people. And that's, you can't get the kind of, I wish it was easy. I really wish we could put in just a little effort and great things happen, but it just doesn't work like that. You have to build up that resilience. Most things, it doesn't have to be difficult, I'm saying, like this, in the sense that most things, it's gonna require that grit, that determination, and that's a skill worth developing. If you don't have it today, it's worth beginning today to start adding that into your life, because it compounds. You do one thing, it was difficult, the next thing, you have the confidence that you can do that. And that's what I'm hearing from you, is there's a time and place to, there's nothing wrong with pulling out if you've given it all you've got, if you have nothing left to give. That's the time, right? But if it's before that point, you had more left, and you know deep down inside that you had that, that could eat you up. I think it still eats a lot of people up, and they shut down, they give up, and their frustration are mad at themselves, because they knew, man, if I had just gone more, and then it goes the other direction too, that negative bias, oh I tried before and I gave up, that might show up again, it's like the anti-confidence. So yeah, it does show up, so yeah, sorry man, continue, it just popped in my mind. No, so in that, reflecting back when I was praying at Miles 25 and I hit that wall, reflecting back, looking back at it, it's like, I honestly believe the higher power God was trying to teach me, like, hey man, look, I'm not gonna allow you to jog or run anymore. Yeah, humbling. What is this something, what is this lesson to learn? And to be completely transparent, if you asked me how many miles I was running per week before I did this Spartan Ultra, you'd be shocked. I was nowhere near putting in 31 miles in one distance. The max distance that I was doing on my runs was 10, 10 to 12 miles a day, right? So I had never gone over anything like that. Just triple your longest runs. Right, exactly, so I look at it and reflect that as like, man, this is a humbling experience, because I could've beat myself up, right, and said, not giving myself grace or compassion on why I didn't, you know, why I didn't, I could've just admit that I didn't, you know, run or jog or finish, I had to walk, like I had to walk, I'm not a walker. Yeah, I love that you're beating yourself up about the walking part. Yeah, I know, right? Most people are like, man, just the start would be. Well, I ran 25, I jogged 25 miles and the last six miles, it's like, I'm having, Had to walk. I had to walk, and so, it's like, okay, let me reflect on that for a second, and what have I learned, what can I reflect back on? And so, those couple things of applied suffering, right, which is in that moment, I learned so much about myself when it comes to the emotions and vulnerabilities that when you reflect on that and you, like for me, I dissected it, I processed it, I even took 24 hours, dude, I didn't respond to anybody. Didn't respond to social media, didn't respond to my text messages. Gotta recover. I had to recover, but like, I even had to, but what I mean by that is like, even my emotions and vulnerabilities, talking about it, I had to dissect that. Like, how was my emotions, because if you've ever ran one of these races, and typically, whatever area of life that you're going through right now, nine times out of 10, what we do as human beings is we don't detach ourselves from our emotions. We make the decisions in that moment, like, if I hurt my knee, I'm emotional about that, I'm outside of the race, right? Because you're going off of, it's an emotional journey, right, and it's a vulnerability, and so reflecting back on that is detaching yourself, okay, and so that's just one of the things that I did, like, as far as dissecting, peeling back the layers, emotionally, and my vulnerabilities, and what I could learn from it to become a better version of myself moving forward, and I'm, you know, and that's, that's. And we're so, I'm so grateful that you were able to, because it is hard for you and your personality type to even people, it's easy to be emotional and be vulnerable, it'd be hard for them to share this, and I know it's, me personally, it's difficult, so really, really grateful, man, and the whole journey, I've, man, it's made me reflect on myself so much just hearing all the things you've gone through and relating it to different experiences in my past, man, so I'm just really grateful for you to share this with us all, and man, is there anything else you wanted to say, like, or to sum up kind of the whole shebang? Yeah, so, runner's knee, one of the things that I wanted to bring up in, and kind of sum up everything that we're talking about, like when you face an obstacle or a challenge or something that's preventing you to become the best version of yourself, in relating this to a runner's knee, right, so we were talking about this morning on our run, one of the things that was frustrating to you. Yeah, this is so appropriate, because you had it written down, you didn't know I had this, I told you this morning, halfway through our run, my runner's knee is where there's like an instability there and you really can't run. The smart thing to do is to stop and rest, so yeah, I could do. Yeah, and so, one of the things that you were telling me is like, man, I don't, your concern was, I don't want to lose everything, lose my. Aerobic base. Aerobic base. And so I've been through this runner's knee, right, you had leveraged and used your team, and been vulnerable, and shared that, and so I was able to open up with you about, hey, I've been through the same thing, and here's what I did to get through it, and it was just confirmation. Really was, it was like, honestly, I knew what to do, I know what to do, I looked at YouTube videos and all that stuff, but man, when I heard you say it this morning, it was like, yeah, I've got to rest for three or four days, I just have to do it, or else, this is, go slow to go fast, go slow down. And that's my transition, is like, go slow to go fast, and I feel like that's been the, kind of the theme, or the, everything that we've really talked about is, even in the race, and in life, in these different areas, is go slow to go fast. Stare down, be intentional on working on the things that need to be improved on, and the things, and looking at it as stepping stones, and that's all I've done, right? And runner's knee is just an analogy for a runner that might understand, or somebody that's starting out, that's in pain, or aching. There's some instabilities there, yeah. Exactly, there's instabilities. Okay, cool, well, do I stop running? You know, because I'm a big believer in how you do one thing is how you do the other thing. So, if you're stopping, if you just throw this out. It can be business, relationship, there's instabilities there. The things aren't going the way you want them to. It hurts, you're not able to perform the way you want to perform. You could suffer, and just put your head down and not look up, but if you stare it down, ask somebody for some help, dig into what the problem is, break it down, look at what the issues are, and level yourself up, yeah, 100%. Agreed, yeah, so I think that applies to, that simple concept and principle can be applied to all areas of life, if you want it, if you want it to. Yeah, 100%, man. What a great journey, thanks for taking us on the story, man, it's awesome, man. No doubt, man, thanks for a great interview, great questions, it's been an honor.