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The podcast episode discusses the effects of abortion on a woman's mental health and the impact of miscarriage on the mental health of the couple involved. The participants talk about how these experiences are often not talked about and are accompanied by feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and confusion. They clarify the difference between abortion and miscarriage and discuss different opinions on whether abortion should be legalized. Ultimately, they emphasize that it should be a woman's choice and that support and understanding are needed for those who have gone through these experiences. Hello everyone, my name is Florence. I welcome everyone to another episode of our podcast where we dive into thought-provoking topics that impact our lives. Today we will be discussing two closely related topics. One, the effects of abortion on a woman's mental health as well as the impact of miscarriage on the mental health of the couple involved. We have here Devanshi, Ifeku, Evelyn, Lemya and myself, Florence, as I've said earlier in this podcast for the discussion. And by the way, why do we want to choose this topic? That's an interesting topic because it's an experience that people don't really talk about. It's always waived out. People don't talk about it. And even if they want to talk about it, they trivialize the effect it has on the mother, on the husband, even the relatives, even the victims, people who have experienced miscarriages. They feel so many reasons, like they feel guilty, they are ashamed, they feel people will not understand. They feel maybe they are talking too much. So they are quiet and they are silent about it. So that's one of the reasons we actually want to let people know what people, couples especially, go through when they have miscarriage or miscarriages. I agree. Yes. It's okay. Can you join me together? No, let it go. It's fine. No, what were you saying? Stop saying. No, but you already covered the whole thing. I was supposed to keep talking? No. You know what, the best thing is, because we three are struggling to give an answer, let's put it in some GPT or something, get an answer and say that. I think that's best. Because naturally it's not coming in our mind. Because we are not mothers, we don't know about it, right? Well, we can still add. I guess I'll add by saying, whatever feels like the state, and we can keep editing. I'll add by saying, I think... Take it back. Just think of other options also. No, nobody should say any reason again why we shouldn't talk about it. We just go from there. Because we don't have time. We are speaking on our behalf. So that's enough. That's enough on that question. We don't like to talk about it now. I did not go through it. I would like to know more. Wait. So, probably next, let's discuss about the mental health effects women go through when they have an abortion and what are some of the emotional feelings they have. Anyone would like to discuss about it? Let me... Go ahead. I remember sometimes in 2014, I had what the doctor called mixed abortion. That was my first time of hearing that. They said my foetus stopped developing. And unfortunately, I didn't know that the baby, the foetus was long gone. I was carrying the dead foetus about for like a month. You know, I don't know what concerned me to go to the hospital that very day. When I got there, I was taken to the ICU. They said, wow, you have just collapsed on the road and died. That this thing inside you is already black. And unfortunately, I didn't see any symptoms. I didn't see anything. You know, that kind of a thing. How many weeks were you there? I was already like in a month. I was almost four months gone. You know, and then it was so bad. I was admitted that very day. And the thing was taken out. I felt bad because I had to go through the normal delivery process. You know, the fact that the baby was brought out dead is actually something that affected me for months. For months. And I actually regretted it. Because I remember that time, I was taking a sleeping pill. You understand? I'm sure that that was what caused it. But I couldn't discuss it with anyone. You understand? Because I couldn't discuss it with anyone. But I felt guilty to myself. Because the baby, they were actually two. Why were you guilty? I felt guilty because actually I was particular about my weight. You understand? So, I saw this thing, this abaci that you lose weight, it will not affect anything. You know, that kind of thing where they are promoting their products. That even if we are pregnant, we are looking for the child, you know. And I took it. And I am so 100% sure that that was what killed the two toes in me. Do you think so? I think so. And she mentioned something like she felt guilty. It's not, it's a general thing. Because I noticed from what I hear people say and from personal experience too, it is a lonely experience. It's a silent process of emotion after the loss. Also, a woman feels guilty. What comes to my mind is, what did I do wrong? What did I fail to do? What should I have done? What should I have done? So, from feeling guilty, it translates to fear. If I have another pregnancy, how do I nurture it? How do I make sure this baby doesn't go, I mean, aborted? And that also progressed into shame. And that shame is, you know, the fear navigates to shame. Shame of? If other women could carry their pregnancy to term, why couldn't I do mine? Why couldn't I protect a child that depends on me for survival? So, these are some of the emotional feelings that women have. And then, also, you have confusion. You don't know the way, how to go forward. You are so confused. You start to live in isolation. Because it's difficult for somebody to understand. Everybody will say, oh, just survive, don't worry. You'll have another baby. Some will say, you didn't even know the child. At least, nobody has seen the child. Some will say, oh, maybe you didn't pray enough. Maybe God is upset with you. And some will say, start to ask you questions about your past. Did you do abortion? Did you do abortion in the past? Maybe that's what, maybe they didn't do it properly. Maybe that's what's wrong with you. So, it's different. It's different because some will say, what's the difference between abortion and miscarriage? Now, let's get it straight. Abortion is intentional. Either intentional removal of fetus. Deliberate termination. Deliberate termination is intentional. The intent could be to save a woman's life. Or the intent could be to save your faith. That you are not ready. Because you are not ready. But miscarriage is something you don't plan. And it hits the couple so hard. Because sometimes they have told everyone they are expecting a baby. Or maybe the name of the kid. They started dressing the monthly. And then it happens. So, it's a different thing, abortion and miscarriage. Now, let me, like, a question which just came into my mind. So, we have two moms over here and two who are not. So, what, according to Evelyn and Devanshi, do you feel that abortion should be legalized? What's your opinion from Evelyn? I feel like for abortion, I know it's controversy. Because a lot of people are pro-choice. But some people are pro-life. So to say, like, so many people think about, I don't want to kill the baby. But some people think that you should have the baby anyway. And I feel like my take on it is like, I mean, I'm religious. So I can say from a religious point of view, like, it isn't necessarily godly or right to, like, kill or that progress of that baby. But, you know, everybody thinks differently to each their own. And I feel like if you knew, like, there are consequences for your actions. And going into, like, certain things, you should know the consequences of, like, of what you're doing. And I do feel like some people don't want to do, like you guys were saying, like, from the stress or they don't want to deal with it. But I think there are better options, like adoption and such instead of, like, killing that, you know, fetus. But I can see how some people feel guilty or bad about it. But at the end of the day, it was their choice. And they should know, like, what comes with that, with their choice. So what is your own take on this rule, about the rule on abortion? Um, if they should legalize abortion, like, is that okay? No, no, no, not whether it should be legalized or not. It's your own stand. You should still have a voice on what you say. It's pro-life. It's pro-life or not? I would say... I would say you shouldn't kill the baby. Well... Interesting. What do you think, Devanshi? Like, even in India, I know there is certain laws for it. But according to your opinion, do you think abortion is fine or how is it? Like, just like Evelyn, I also feel like we should not kill the baby. Like, who... Even, like... The progress of the baby. I think you are the same pro-life. But I am not in full support of that. I'm also... Women should be able to decide on... Yes, women should be able to decide on what they want. Because when you say abortion... But just know, like, what comes with it. Yes, when you say abortion in general is wrong, that in itself is wrong. Because there might be reasons why you need to terminate pregnancy. What if my life depends on it? What if it's an ectopic pregnancy? What if I have children I don't... I'm not able to take care of already? What if I have children I can't... That was a very good reason. What if I'm mentally not ready or if I'm raped? The choice should be mine and not anybody's. Even those advocating for AIDS from the point of religious, from religious angle, they should consider the God that they are serving. God Himself does not impose Himself and His will on people. He gives you choice. And that is why even from religious angle, those that are religious, they should consider that God Himself do not force laws on you. Right, like free will. He's a free will, so you live with the consequence. So I think that's what our leaders should know. Just one more quick question. Like, when someone goes through abortion, they do discuss with partners, right? And together... It's not every time. It depends if they agree on the same thing. Oh, God. So, yeah, I do think it's definitely a woman's choice. She definitely should have that choice over her body. I just, for that decision, that's up to them, like, people who decide. But I definitely do believe that people should have that choice. And if they want to, then they want to, like, you know. Got it. Okay, and I know Florence gave some examples of what the mental challenges a person goes through. Anything more to add from you? Like, mentally, what a girl or a woman goes through when they have an abortion. Words cannot express it. It's just the way people process normal life. Yes, like the denial, wow, your anger. The why me, you know, that kind of a thing. Why the abortion, I mean, miscarriage is a pathetic thing because oftentimes people are not heard. And even if they are heard, people don't understand. It's like, why are you mulling over somebody you're not even saying? It's like a loon. Yeah. You are the loon or the seeker. That's when you get to know, oh, maybe some other person has gone through it, but they just didn't talk about it. And sometimes, these women become deciders. Wow. When you keep repeating yourself, and you find yourself in an environment where other years, you end up being a mother, or she sees other people's children, or you want somebody's child to do certain things for you, and then the mother says, you do something like, go get your child. Yeah, like where we came from, they believe if you don't have a child, you know, there is like a stigma. Yeah. You understand? Stigma that, you know. Even your own sister's child, that every time you ask him or her, don't touch my child. Oh, really? Yeah. They're like overprotective of them? Yeah, they believe that if a woman doesn't have a child of her own, you know, they will disrespect you. Oh, wow. They will treat you as nobody, especially from your husband's side. Oh, wow. You know, you will not have a say. It's kind of like in India, in some parts of India too, like, people hate women who don't have a child. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Some parts, like not all over the country. Okay. But I have seen some families where they disrespect women who don't have children. So they even go through the pressure from the society. Yeah. Okay. Got it. And also, it affects your work. It affects your marriage. Especially if you have a partner that doesn't have a child. It makes you feel like you're a failure, not able to protect your child. There's no word that can actually explain it. Even the word miscarriage, it's like you missed something. You didn't do something right. It's okay, continue. We can always edit it. Look forward. Are there other questions? No, I mean, it's okay. Let it continue. So we spoke about abortion. We spoke about the kind of touchdown miscarriage. So what is the health, basically, right? You can talk, it's okay. We can always edit it. Yeah, we're going to edit it. We're going to edit it. It'll be fine. So I think there is a question, like what kind of health, right? Yeah, so what kind of health, basically, a woman or a couple can have? Why I want you guys to be the ones asking. You guys can be like our voice. Like, okay, with all these problems. No, but this was good, right? Yeah, what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, any of you could say, with all these problems, I mean, with the stress and everything, what's the way forward? Is that right? Maybe what's the way forward? Yeah. I think that's the question, right? Yes. Yeah, we covered abortion. We covered miscarriage. Yes. I know we were talking about the laws, but we already kind of covered what is our personal opinion. So I think that should be fine. Or what do you think? Oh, my opinion? What do you think about abortion? I think the choice should be with the woman. Like, not the partner, not anyone else. It should be our own choice that if we feel we have to go through it, I think we should. And what do you think is the psychological support a woman would need at this time? Time heals, right? Yeah. I think that's one thing. And I heard there are therapists also for this who can help the person and the couple to come out of it. Or like a support system. From the family? Yeah. Family or friend or someone who you feel comfortable or you know that you can come to, like, safely talking about it with, someone you can open up with. Or, like, I heard, aren't there, like, groups for it too? Like, there's certain groups that help with that. Right, like, different women in that group. There's, like, also groups like that, I feel like. But also things for yourself, I guess, like, maybe journaling or something, just to, like, you know, express that in some way, some kind of way where you can express that healthy for yourself, for your mind and for your betterment. And I think it's essential to recognize the mental health is just as important as our physical health. Whether someone has undergone an aversion or suffered a miscarriage, it's crucial to validate their emotions and provide a judgment-free environment for healing, you know. So, that's just it. So, I guess, based on your experience, time helps, right? Like, did you guys do something else or just time? It's time and don't... It's not always time because some people live their lifetime mourning their miscarriage. So, in this context, I don't... Time doesn't... Time will only make it better to not totally heal because it depends on the support that you get, that time can give, but it doesn't take the grief away. So, we should be running out of time. All right. Thank you, everyone. What happened? You had something else to ask? No. Can you talk about the men? They say couple, not men. Okay, but the rounding up... Oh, it's actually a good topic. Like, abortion or miscarriage, what does men think? What do you think men are thinking of? So, for abortion, for men, I feel like... I don't know. It might be controversial for some because some men feel like, you know, they want to make... They want to help the woman and help her with the decision, but also, I feel like some men... They don't connect, right? They don't connect, they don't understand, but then that's when you can, like, come together and try to understand each other. And I feel like if you really have a good, like, supportive man by your side, he's going to try to see how you feel, be there for you and support you well enough in your decision. But I know some men aren't the best men, and they just don't care. Yeah, they don't really connect to you. Yeah, but I feel like... I don't know. It's kind of like... I'm not a man, so I don't care. Right. That's only what I can, yeah, think of. You have anything to add? I want to add... Let me add to what she said, how men feel about abortion. How men feel about miscarriage is what I want to talk about. In conclusion, you notice that oftentimes, we only consider that issue. We decide to talk about how women feel because it's hard to talk about it, which is why the essence of me taking this topic, men feel grief because they are often overlooked. People don't understand. They are able to take care of their wife, but they feel that they, too, need help. So, like, I would say over and over, men and women who are experiencing miscarriage should be helped. They should go through counseling. They need to be heard and told it's going to be okay. They need that support so that the healing process will be smooth, and then the marriage also will be sustained. Yes, that's a good way to look at it. Yeah. Right. I think, well, how many minutes, do you think? It's a lot. 20. Yeah, okay. Too much. So, the last thing I want, probably Devanshi or Ezhelat. Okay. How are we going to get them? Yes. It's okay. We have a lot to edit from. See, I want someone to talk this. Thank you, everyone, and for listeners, please remember that taking professional help is okay. Okay, let me say something else. No, no, no. You did an intro, right? Can I say it? One can say this, and one can end also. Yeah. Okay, I'll be the first one. Yeah, yeah, come this way. You guys decide. Yeah, in the flow. In the flow. Okay. Make sure it's recording. Can you edit this now? Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you, guys, and our listeners, for listening. Please remember that seeking professional help when dealing with these complex emotional experiences is an important step toward healing and finding your own path forward. We hope this discussion has been helpful and offered some light on these important topics and offered support to those who may be going through this experience. Stay tuned for more episodes on mental health and well-being. Remember, you are not alone, and help is always available. Yay! Thank you. No, no, no. Okay.