Podcast Sweden

The speaker is discussing the differences between raising children in the Netherlands and Sweden. They talk about their own experiences growing up and raising their kids in different countries. They mention differences in safety practices, such as using helmets and life jackets, as well as differences in attitudes towards being outside in different weather conditions. The speaker expresses a desire to determine where their own children would be happiest growing up. Oké, we zijn op opnemen. Oké, welcome everyone to the podcast where the grass is greener. In this week's episode I want to find out where I want to raise my kids. In the Netherlands or in Sweden. So, I'm here with my mom. Hello mom. Hello daughter. What's your name? My name is Lotta. With an A. Lotta with an A. And the reason that I have my mom in the studio today is because you grew up in Sweden. You're Swedish. I'm half Swedish. And is that not true? Well, I grew up in... you grew up in Sweden but you raised your kids in the Netherlands. Oh, Lotta, yeah, yeah. You grew up in Sweden. As a child. As a child. But you raised all your kids, aka me, in the Netherlands. And I grew up in the Netherlands and then I've been quite some time to Sweden. Almost all my summers as a kid and winters. So, uhm, yeah. Now we're deep into the anecdotes. What was... Can I talk about it again? What was a moment last week that you thought you... that you thought, I'm happy to be in the Netherlands right now. And not in Sweden. And not in Sweden. Okay. Uhm... Well, last week I was very happy. I was in the Seekerdome watching Kane. And nobody knows who Kane is in Sweden. And I'm a huge fan. So I was very happy. I was... Then I actually got to know... Again. Uhm... Well, last week I was at a concert. I was watching Kane. I'm a huge fan. And nobody knows who Kane is in Sweden. So, uhm, that makes me quite happy that I got the chance to get to know them. Otherwise I would never have listened to the music. Okay. Interesting. Who gave you that as a present? Well, my moment last week that I was happy to be or to live in the Netherlands and not in Sweden was when I was planning, ironically, my exchange to Lund University in Sweden next semester. And I saw all the prices of alcohol, but also groceries, everything actually. At that moment I was quite happy that I had my student life in the Netherlands. So, uhm... Okay. You have to click on the link, of course. Okay, so that means you think... You think you have the feeling you are a little bit more rich in the Netherlands than you are in Sweden. A little bit, yes. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Uhm... But that's funny that you mention it because I also have a very strong feeling that I maybe... Just to compare, I'm really happy in the Netherlands, but I have a really strong feeling that I maybe would have been happier if I grew up in Sweden. But I really want to explore if this is true or that this is just a way of over-romanticizing your childhood. Because I'm a big sucker for nostalgia and have a strong interest in this phenomenon. That means that I also tend to romanticize parts of my life. So I want to know if I was just lucky with my experience or that it's reality. Have I said that enough? Hey, we have a podcast here. Yes. I don't know. I'm on my head right now. Is that possible? Yes. Can I wash this? You can wash it. No, I have to wash it. Everything that needs to be washed, you can put it in the bathroom with the washing machine on the floor. Yes. Now... Shall we start? Or do you have enough intro material? Yes, I think it's going a bit slow. Yes. We have to record each other a bit more. This is the machine, right? Yes. Okay. But I must say, it's quite sweet of you that you're romanticizing your youth. I mean, that's a positive problem. A lot of people have just the other way around. That's true. That's true. So I'm very happy with that. But yes, for my own kids, I really want to know where they would be the happiest kids. And then... Your kids. My kids. Yes, just to start with, why did you choose to let your kids grow up in the Netherlands, and not in Sweden? Because you have a lot of experience. Yes. Why did you choose to let your kids grow up in the Netherlands, and not in Sweden? Because you had quite a good childhood there, and not much wrong about it. No, that's true. Well, I think... That's a good question, I must say. A very good question. But you know, when you are young, life takes you to places. And life took me to Amsterdam. And I remember I was so excited about living abroad, and seeing things from the positive side. And I wasn't really very conscious about that it was a lifetime decision. I was like, this is a decision for now, and what life later will be, I don't know. But I remember when I got you, I remember I was pregnant, and I was cycling in Amsterdam. And then I saw small babies in a maxi-cozy, in a car seat, being taken to a crash. And I started to cry. I thought it was a shocking experience to see that. Because you never take a child younger than one year to daycare in Sweden. So then I went home, and I said to your father, and I said, we are going to make this a little bit the Swedish way, in the Netherlands. So that was my... I made a compromise. I took the best parts of the Swedish way, and I mixed them with the Dutch way. Yeah, because I remember, the young baby part I can't remember of course, but I remember that I was the only child in my class who had to wear a helmet on a bicycle. So you really made the Dutch way the Swedish way. I did really my best. And I still do actually. I still do. That's actually interesting when you see two worlds next to each other. How different they can be, even though you think that Sweden and the Netherlands are very similar. When you get a child, you realize that the differences are much bigger than you think they are. For example, wearing a helmet or not when you are on a bicycle. And I can go on with some safety things that are different in Sweden and the Netherlands. The life vest, for instance. Oh yeah, but that's also very interesting. It's very Dutch to say, oh, you don't need a life vest, because my child took swim lessons. Yeah, that's quite... It's quite Dutch. People will laugh at you in Sweden when you say that. Just a second. Do I have to go first? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I think that's it. Life jackets. Yeah, so it's quite clear that the safety for children in Sweden, or the attention for safety for children, is way higher in Sweden. I think it's a different way of thinking. What's safety? We have certain things that are very important to us, like wearing a life jacket on water, wearing a belt in the car, wearing child seats in the car that are turned a special way, because there has been so much research, la la la, the most safe way. But on the other hand, you have things in the Netherlands that is more safe, when it comes, for example, for babies, how they sleep at night, which is very different from Sweden. What is the difference then? I must have to think after I answer the question. Well, in the Netherlands, I remember when you were a baby, we were recommended to use like a sleeping bag for you, so you couldn't get the cover over your mouth, so that you always couldn't breathe. And it was so much focus on babies that they could breathe and that they didn't get too warm in bed. And nobody talked about that in Sweden. There are babies there that just slept in bed with their parents. So yeah, what's safety? You have different safety. Yeah, because also one I think most of the Dutch people would be very shocked about is the fact that Swedes or Scandinavian parents keep their children outside in the stone cold while it's snowing, while they're going to grab a coffee inside. That's true. On the street. Yeah, that's true. Just ready for a child predator to take with them. For a Dutch person, it would look like that. Yeah, that's true. That's a very cultural thing indeed. Yeah, we want our babies outside as much as possible. So that's the reason. And sleeping outside is seen as very healthy and a very good thing for babies. So we have this huge focus on being outside as much as possible. No matter weather or sun, snow, cold, warm, being outside with your baby is important. Yeah, so how that can look very unsafe for Dutch people. And it may also mean that it's just safer to do that kind of stuff in Sweden. Safer environment. Yeah, I think indeed we have more space in Sweden so you can put it outside a cafe. I don't see that happen in the center of Amsterdam, in the Netherlands. It's different. And you don't put your baby outside every cafe in Sweden, of course. But because of this habit, when you have a cafe, you think about that. Like, where do we have our space where parents can put their babies outside? As a community, you accept. Adept. That's interesting because you said that Swedish parents want their children to be outside as much as possible. Because being outside is healthy for you. But going on to that, when you grow up and you get a bit older and you're not a baby anymore. What I experienced in Sweden was that there was a saying you always told me that your grandmother told you. That's a saying. Which means, there is no bad weather, only bad clothes. So it was not even an option to not go outside when it was raining because that doesn't matter. You go hiking with your parents at the age of 4 years old on a 3 hour hiking trek. Even if it's raining, if it's wet, you just put on better shoes. And a better raincoat and rain trousers. How did you experience that compared to how it is in the Netherlands? Because we also have a lot of rain and weather in the Netherlands. Did you experience the same mentality? No, it was so confusing and frustrating for me when you were small kids. I spent a lot of energy and money to get you the right clothes so you could be outside playing when it was rainy and snowy and cold. Because you couldn't even buy those clothes here. But then when I finally got them to the Netherlands and I bought them in Sweden and I got them to the Netherlands. If you are the only child at school with those rain trousers, you don't put them on. And you don't need to either because nobody goes outside when it's raining. So it was a constant battle to get my background as a Swedish parent or child being outside with any weather. And to see you always sit inside when the weather wasn't perfect. It was a struggle. I've spent a fortune on very good clothes that you almost never wore. No, it was very uncool. Yeah. As a Dutch school. But do you think... Advantages? What advantages do you think that mentality brings to children in Sweden? Because you just mentioned it's healthy for you. But do you think it enriches their lives? Of course it does. Because it makes you think. It gives you confidence. Because you are less dependent on the weather. Your life is not dependent on the weather. It just gives you freedom. So you have an automatic thinking. So let's see, what kind of weather is it today? Today is the day for my rain gear. Okay. So it really enriches your life in that sense. Because it makes you less dependent on the weather. Yeah, and I can also imagine the part of being more... Enjoying nature more. Especially in a country like Sweden. It's great because you have a lot of nature. You have a lot of different nature. You have the sea. You have lakes. You have forests. You have mountains. You have flatlands. You have every kind of nature. What I really learned from my Swedish part is that many people go to a house in the nature on the weekend. Or when they get the time. Or when they are free. They go to a certain spot. In Sweden with beautiful nature. Very simple. It can be very simple. But they don't really go abroad when you have a free weekend. It's always a free week. Most of the time people really enjoy their own country. And their own nature. And exploring that part. And I think in the Netherlands it's more... There is less to explore, of course. But it's also more the mentality of always wanting easier environments. Like traveling to Spain, France, where it's always sunny. Yeah, it's a huge focus on perfect weather in the Netherlands. Which I think is a pity because you miss out on the nature when it's raining. Nature is fantastic when it's raining. It can be really beautiful and very relaxing to be in the nature when it's raining. The first thing when people say... So, you're going to Sweden for the vacation. Aren't you afraid that it will be bad weather? It's always the first thing they say. It's always the first thing they say. And also a reason why a lot of people don't go to Sweden. Because they don't have this perfect weather guarantee. Which is a mental thing. Because that means you cannot have fun when it's raining. Which is, of course... I never really thought about it this way. But now that we're talking about it, I have this core memory. When I was four years old, we went berry picking. That's a very big thing to do in Sweden. Because you have raspberries and blueberries. All kinds of berries in every forest next to your home. So, every child goes berry picking when the berries are growing. And I have a really strong core memory that I had my rain gear on. The dark blue one. And we went with my grandparents. We went to the forest next to our home. And we went berry picking. Blueberry picking. And it was raining. Like raining a lot. It didn't stop. It was only getting worse. But actually, it's a very, very strong memory in my head. It was amazing. We were eating blueberries. And it didn't matter if you were spilling it on your clothes. Or because it just washed off the raincoat. And it was like wet hair. And I have this picture that I stick out my tongue with blueberries on my tongue. And in the rain. It was like a shot of pure happiness. I really have that core memory in my head. And the rain was a big part of it. I'm glad to hear that. I didn't know. But that's funny. Yeah, you are proving the theory. Yeah, and if we go to the educational system in Sweden. I've been to a Swedish school for half a year. When I was 11, I think. And I experienced a very different school culture there. Apart from the level. I was lower at that time of my age. And it was really different from a Dutch school. How I view it. It was like more of coming to your living room. To your home. It made you feel at home, at ease. You take off your shoes when you come to a school in Sweden. And you put on your... Indoor shoes. You put on your indoor shoes. That was like a whole new world to me. And you have sofas around the whole school. It's like a very warm, homey feeling. If we think of the Dutch school system. Where it's much more focused on the level. An intelligent level at a very young age. Or intelligent level, yeah. How you proceed. Yeah, very result-oriented. Yeah, result-oriented. Where at an early age they... Where you get selected to a level at a very young age. Which is not the case in Sweden. I think that really holds together with each other. You have a more warm, homey feeling at a Swedish school. Than at a Dutch school. Because it is not so result-oriented. How did you experience the Swedish school? And how did you experience us going to a Dutch school? Yeah, that's also a very good question. Huge differences indeed. No, but that's true. You are allowed to be a child longer in Sweden. Than you are in the Netherlands. So they put a lot of focus on the social development. For children in Sweden. More than in the Netherlands. Here they need to be put into a diagram. Much earlier. So yeah, that's a huge difference. And you will notice that. If you raise your children in Sweden. Compared to the Netherlands. Also part of it is... That you have lunch at school. You have lunch at school instead of at your parents' house. Where there are other teachers who are staying over lunch at school. You have warm lunch. Everybody has the same lunch. It's very good lunch. I remember that I loved it there. Because it was like spaghetti bolognese. With a whole salad bar. And nectarade of course. And everybody was sitting with each other. It was very cozy. And it was every day at the Swedish school. I think that also takes part of the culture there. Yeah, I think that's really a sad thing in the Netherlands. To see children with a wet sandwich. That has been in their bag for several hours. Before they can eat it. And I mean, who gets happy? At a moment like that. A whole sweaty little sandwich out of a plastic bag. Do they still do that at school? They still do that, yes. Of course there's the new trend that parents have hyper-healthy lunches for their children in cool boxes. But the whole idea that every child takes their own lunch with them to school in the morning is just absurd. If you say that to a Swedish person. Yeah. Yeah, because how I interpreted the... Interpret... Interpreted? How I interpret... Okay. Yeah, because how I feel how the Swedish culture, where the Swedish culture really depends on. Is... That would be... Yeah, because in my experience food is a very big thing in the Swedish culture. Of course food is a big thing in every culture. But if I compare it to the Netherlands. Food really brings people together in Sweden and it's really a big part of your childhood actually. How I experienced it. It was in Sweden like many traditions that include food and eating lunch at school is one of them. But I think that... Yeah, for instance at Christmas, Swedish Christmas. The whole country has the same year books. Yeah, the same Christmas menu. The same Christmas menu. Compared to the Netherlands every family has their own traditions and it's different. In Sweden it's really like a general Christmas menu. That there are things on the menu that every Swedish family has on the table that night. And everybody knows it and almost everybody loves it. And... I don't know... With many Swedish traditions it's that way. Everybody has the same food on the table. And the same elements on the table. And of course in the Netherlands you also have it with Sinterklaas of course. With pepernoten and banketletter. And chokoladeletter. But in my experience it's very different. You are right. I actually haven't thought about that. But you are really right. A lot of festive traditions in Sweden are focused around food. Yeah. That's true. That's true. And why that is, that's a different question. But that's really interesting. It really brings people together. And I think the lunch that you mentioned is also a very good example. Because it starts already at school but it continues later. And you will notice now when you go studying that when you are a student the lunch is also very important. You come together and you lunch. It's like a highlight of the day. It's a social moment. Each good... Maybe we need to have a good lunch because we are more outside during the day when it's raining. But we need that. And when you start to work and you have your first job the lunch is very important. You go out with your colleagues, you go to a restaurant and you eat good food. And you don't have to pay a lot of money for it because the lunch is always the cheapest meal you can get in a restaurant in Sweden. It's really nice food for a low price. Because the lunch is holy. So that's true. You miss that in the Netherlands I think. I think the part of... Maybe that also depends on... Of course it depends on what family you grow up in. But the part of having that family feeling where you get a recipe from your great-grandfather that still passes through the whole family. In my opinion in Sweden every family has one or two recipes that are getting passed through. Because everybody has the same elements on the menu. And everybody... My mom makes it this way. My grandmother made it this way. But everybody knows... Yeah, but what you are saying is interesting. You are saying it also brings generations together. Yeah, absolutely. Because what your great-grandmother ate you still eat there. It's not old-fashioned in any way. It's very traditional. But it's still modern. It's still being eaten in modern restaurants, in fancy restaurants. In every restaurant you can get Schäffler, the meatballs. Or all those traditional Swedish dishes. That's just very different from them. Yeah, because for example I think one example is... Yeah, that's really true. And we use our senses a lot when we have memories as well. There are some certain smells that are really strong for us. Which makes it Christmas for example. Some special herbs that we use in the food. Special drinks we drink. And just by smelling it, we feel Christmas. Yeah, because I was thinking about my childhood memories. And now we go back to the part of nostalgia. That I really love to create a nostalgic feeling. And most of my memories with multi-sensory memories. So smelling things and eating things. Were Swedish memories. So Swedish elements that brought me back to my childhood. And gave me that sense of nostalgia. Like eating something. Like a very childhood dish in Sweden. Or indeed smelling. It was different than in the Netherlands. I didn't really have... I didn't really come to a sense of nostalgia in that way. So that's also the reason why I have a take on this podcast. Yeah. Because there must be a reason for it, you know. Maybe it is more dreamy. Maybe my fantasizing is... Do you have sound? Yeah, I have sound. Okay, good night. Good night. Do you sleep with dad? Yes, I sleep with him. Yeah, I sleep with him. Alright. What time is it? I don't know. I'm going to sleep soon. What did you say? About my exit. Oh yeah, I want to talk about that with you. Can we talk about that? We can talk about the exit. Yeah. I'm going to sleep. Yeah. Yeah, my brother just came in. Quite ironically. He was talking about his exam result. Final exam result that he hears on Wednesday. Because in the Netherlands you get a call if you succeeded or not. And he was quite nervous for it. And you directly said, yeah, this is just like a... This is very Dutch. And an example of a huge difference with the Swedish school system. I think it's even illegal in Sweden to do such a thing for a child that you do here in the Netherlands. Already at a young age. No, but this system that you have two weeks of exams. And that you are dependent on the results of the exams. Well, that's not really the truth. No. But to make it easy. No, that's not the way they do it in Sweden. No, I think in Sweden they put a lot less pressure on children than they do here. It's way less result oriented. Indeed, you already mentioned it. But it's more that you can be a child a bit longer. Play outside, be outside. And the results at school, they don't really matter yet. And that's something that comes when you become a student. But still, when you become a student and eventually when you're getting a job. The work pressure is still lower than it is in the Netherlands. And in other countries. The work culture there. I'm very interested in the work culture there. It's because they have a way more human approach than they tend to have in the Netherlands. And also on the feminist side of it, they also tend to think a lot more about women in Sweden. At work, when they're having babies and children. Which of course also affects the kids. Yeah, so we have a very strong equal thinking in everything. That's true. I actually think we have a very good life-work balance. And that's also deep in our culture. We need to have a lot of time off to eat all the food to celebrate all our parties. And maybe it's also because we have dark winters. And we need to be a little bit nicer to ourselves to be happy. Yeah, you're focusing a bit more on the good things in life. Yeah, and we are definitely focusing more on the group. The Dutch community, society, culture is very unrealistic. And that's a difference with Sweden as well. Yeah, but on the other side, if we're looking at the group sentiment in Sweden, that also has a different side to it. Because when I walk through Amsterdam, you see all types of cultures mixed with each other. But when I walk around in Stockholm, I only see blonde people with blue eyes. And there's not much color to it. No, that's true. So this group feeling really is between the native Swedes. Yeah, we are a very homogenous group. Yeah. Yeah, we don't have the history like you do. And that's where the difference starts, I would say. We didn't have any colonies. We didn't go out in the world to kill black people and take their land. I hear a slight bias in this sentence. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. But the positive side of that is that you have a very mixed society here when it comes to culture, color, traditions. People are more different here. That has a lot of positive things. We are a little bit boring when it comes to that in Sweden. Yes, that's true. That's the difference. So it's easier for Swedes to gather around traditions because most of them have the same traditions. It's changing in Sweden as well, as the world changes. But yeah, that's the difference. If you want your children to grow up in Sweden, you need to work a little bit more on these issues to make them think a little bit wider and broader. We have talked a lot about things that are better in Sweden actually than in the Netherlands, in our opinion. What are things that are better in the Netherlands than in Sweden that you experience? Ah. Well, a lot of things are better in the Netherlands. That's why I'm still here after 25 years. Yeah. No plans to leave. Now, the climate. It's a very nice climate here. I love that the Netherlands is a little bit smaller. You don't have long distances, which means you can spend more time living and spend more time together with your children. In Sweden, sometimes you spend one or two hours just to get to work or get to school, which can be a little bit waste of life sometimes. And I love that everything is close by. You can easily go for a weekend in Paris. You can just take the car and discover Germany on the other side of the border. So, the feeling that the world is small is great in the Netherlands. And that's a feeling you get already at the airport, Schiphol. And I love that with your children as well. Yeah. So, meaning the world is small, you can go anywhere. Yeah, you can discover the world easier and the surroundings around you. You're a little bit more stuck in Sweden. And the distances are so big. And sometimes you have to spend half a day just to do the grocery shopping. And to go and get those batteries or whatever. It's a huge country. So, you spend a lot of time just transporting yourself. And I love that with the Netherlands. It's as long to the hospital as it is to the grocery store. I mean, that's fantastic. Yeah. That's a good one. So, you can spend time living instead. Yeah, I really agree with the less depressive winters. Because, of course, I've only been to Sweden in the winters at Christmas time. But, of course, when you're there for a week, it's amazing. And it's Christmas. So, it is amazing. But I don't experience the winter from October till February. Where it's getting dark at 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock. In some places in Sweden, even earlier. Yeah. And the sun doesn't come up until 9 in the morning. Or 10, maybe. It really depends on what place you are in Sweden. Because it really differs. But those winters can be quite depressing for some people. Oh, yeah. It's heavy. So, you have to deal with them, of course, when you live there. And what you said this week are better at making more out of it. And focusing on the good things in life. Because, maybe, the dark winters. You really have to get through them. For sure. I mean, my childhood. Don't forget. In the winter, you go to school when it's dark outside. Because school starts at 8. So, when I think about my childhood at school in the winter, I see darkness. Yeah. Not literally, but yeah. Yeah. It's a big difference. So, that's nice for the Netherlands. Yeah. That's a good thing. So, yeah. That's something you need to consider as well, Maxine. I'm thinking about the things that are good in the Netherlands. That I'm doing well in the Netherlands. Yeah. And, maybe, things that you did unconsciously. I think you had more contact with your parents outside of school. Because I worked less. I was never as busy as I was when I was in high school. I did work. But the whole part-time job. But you don't know that, of course. But in high school, you do see your parents. As far as I'm concerned, less. Yeah. So, talking about the feminist work in culture in Sweden. Where the women get to work more, actually. And, yeah. The opvang. The daycare. The daycare. Yeah, gets subsidized by the government. For a big part. Yeah, you see that the women go to work more often. Yeah. Of course, it would be great for me to pursue my career there. Because I can maybe pursue a better career there than I can in the Netherlands. Because of the opportunities I have there. But, yeah. Of course, it also has an impact on your children. Because you are less at home and the children are more at daycare. That's more of the norm. So, in the Netherlands, you have lunch at home. With your parents. And you get to see your parents when you get home. And don't go to daycare. You maybe have to spend more time with your parents. But, yeah. I don't know if in this modern... No, if that's sustainable. If that's sustainable in this modern world. Aren't we shifting towards a society where it's normal to maybe see your child less during the weekdays. But more in the weekends. Having more vacations together. Yeah, really having more of that quality time together. Yeah, but I don't know. No, I think that's a tricky one as well. Because you see there are advantages with the Dutch system there. To a certain level. I would put my vote on the Swedish system there, actually. Because your career is so much more developing for you as a human being, as a woman. Yeah, what would be your advice as a mother to me, your daughter? Oh my God. I will not give you an objective advice. Because I have to be honest. My biggest dream is that you find a Swedish man and move to Sweden. So that I get to raise my grandchildren in Sweden. That's my dream. I have to be honest about that one. I'm not going to lie. With all respect to your boyfriend. He's a very nice guy. For now. Yeah, okay. I already thought that maybe would be your opinion. While talking about this subject. I maybe think that the listeners have heard the vibe throughout this episode. That I really like talking about Sweden. And the childhood sentiment that I know from Sweden. And that there is a strong feeling in me that really draws me to the Swedish culture and the Swedish childhood. But I must not forget that I had an amazing childhood here in the Netherlands as well. So I really need to stay rational towards my choices. Because the luxury in this story is that both countries are amazing to let your children grow up in. Or both countries are amazing to raise your children in. So whatever country I choose I will have the opportunity to create a great childhood for my children. And maybe I have to go with that God's feeling. Maybe it's not a rational choice in this story. Maybe it's enough that I'm subjective about this subject. Yeah, I think all the listeners have heard it throughout this episode. Yeah, but I have also a very good news for you. Which makes this even more luxurious. There is no black and white in this one. Because when you are half Swedish half Dutch you can always pick the best of two worlds. You are enriched with two different ways and systems. You can pick the best berries from each culture and each country. And give that to your children. So you are going to have the best of two worlds. No matter where they grow up. To just summarize this. You can't do a mistake in this one. Well, that's a great perspective for the rest of my life. Thank you so much mom for taking part in this podcast. It was really fun to talk to you about this subject. Because it's so obvious in our lives. We don't necessarily talk about this at length. Extensively. To this extent. Our English is also very perfect. So it was really fun to have you here. And thank you all for listening to this podcast. I hope you got more of an insight of how the Swedish childhood looks. Or Swedish culture versus the Dutch one. And enjoy your day. And always remember the grass is greener where you think it's greener. And always remember the grass isn't always greener. But listen to your gut feeling when making life choices. Thank you.