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In episode 19 of the Progress Pod, Jamie McPhee talks about his experience in the Great Scottish Run half marathon with the host. They discuss their training leading up to the race, feeling fresh and energized, and the benefits of tapering. They also talk about the weather conditions on race day and their goals for the race. They aimed for a personal best time and pushed themselves to run at a faster pace than before. They emphasize the importance of starting in the correct bracket of runners to minimize obstacles during the race. Hello and welcome to episode number 19 of the progress pod and making his haptic appearance on the podcast. We've got Jamie McPhee with us today. How's it going, mate? Not bad, mate. I'm still awaiting my match ball signed by yourself. It's good to be back talking again about another running event. Looking forward to getting into it, bud. Brilliant. So, as Jamie's kind of mentioned there a wee bit, today's episode we're just going to be recapping the Great Scottish Run half marathon, which we both took part in yesterday and completed. So, there's no real full structure to this podcast. It's just me and Jamie chatting about how the event went, looking at the build-up to it, how we did, how we're feeling going forward as well. So, Jamie, on the lead-up to the half marathon, obviously it's been quite a big build-up. This is the first half marathon that we've done and the last two events we've done together have both been marathons. So, this was our first time training for the half marathon, mate. How did you find the build-up? Training was great. When you looked at all the kind of metrics, because obviously we used Strava, so you can see what we've done for the previous marathon blocks and then you can go back and compare. All, for myself anyway, all my splits and stuff, for my treadmill intervals, my longer runs, everything seemed to be definitely going in the right direction. In this block as well, I didn't have any niggles or any injuries and I think that came down to maybe training a wee bit smarter as well on the kind of longer runs, not running like every race or every training run was the Olympics final and just being a wee bit more sensible and just bringing it back when I needed to. And then, obviously as well, when the harder sessions were there, you were a wee bit more fresh as well. So, yeah, training really went any better, what about yourself? Yeah, no, I'd agree. I did really enjoy the half marathon style training. Although I did have a few kind of longer runs dotted in there, it's not as time intensive as a marathon block. You've not got as many long runs and I felt that gave you that wee bit extra for when you were doing maybe faster sessions and stuff like that, when you went to the track a few times or if you were doing some tempo runs, some half marathon paced efforts. I felt that you had a wee bit more energy to go faster. Your legs didn't feel, legs did feel tired throughout, but nowhere near, I didn't feel the level of fatigue as you do during like a marathon training block. I feel like you're constantly feeling fatigued. So, like you know, I enjoyed it and comparing all the splits, we could see improvements and we were always kind of, obviously it was different this time, we weren't training for a marathon, but looking at the splits and how they were progressing just from like even the previous year, everything was kind of pointing in the right direction and we were both kind of unsure on the goal, because we actually both ran our half marathon PBs together last year as part of the marathon training. That's right. That was like a year ago, I think we both ran, you ran just under 124, didn't you? I ran just over 124, I think it was like 30 seconds difference and that was literally just during a training run, during Strathclyde Park, with a third of it uphill and all that. So, we were like, should we go for a PB or with this year's experience, should we try and push it a bit further? So, it was always going to come down to how we felt in the day and round about the actual event day, fueling before it, how was that? Yeah, just my usual, I didn't really change up and over the course of even when I'm just living my day-to-day, like I've got like a routine where probably 80 to 90% of my foods that I consume are just the same and then I have a wee 10% maybe where I'll substitute things in for dinners and stuff. So, yeah, I know what works well for my body and that was exactly what I just replicated again going into a half marathon. Yeah, no, I was the same, it was maybe not as much of a sort of carb load as maybe before the marathon, but yeah, definitely got good fueling, still tapered down the week before. To be honest, with my training the week before, I didn't, strength-wise, I did a couple of strength sessions, which just kept the weights really, really light and it was just a few easy pace runs. I think I did a 5K and a 10K in the 4K shakeout run, it was just really easy pace runs. So, I did actually feel, we both said yesterday when we met up, my legs actually feel fresh, which isn't the common theme like over the last 18 months as we said, like if I'm training for marathons, like two marathons an hour or a half marathon when you're constantly running training and doing what we do in the sense of trying to still strength train as well, your legs just never feel fresh. So, it was quite a good feeling to be going in feeling fresh, no real niggles and stuff like that, which was good. I definitely, as you say, that cumulative fatigue, it's as if it never leaves you and then also as well, we know the advice we give to other people, we don't always give to ourselves, like when you need maybe two or three days just to relax and chill and just let the body recuperate, we don't take it because you think, oh my God, if I take two days off, I'm going to lose 18 months of running training in these two days and it's obviously not the case. So, we don't actually have anything unless it's actually forced upon us, which is essentially what the taper is, it's kind of forced upon you, it's like, it's the time that you need to take off to let the body repair, recuperate and get ready to go again. So, yeah, it was weird waking up on Sunday morning and having a wee bit of a spring in your step. I think the taper is something we spoke about before and I know a lot of people, if you're doing your first event and you've never really done a taper before and if you are regular exercising, you've been training a lot, it can feel a bit strange to all of a sudden just completely drop the volume and you're like, should I be doing this and you're sitting and you're itching and you're like, can I still run at that pace and it's just part of any event, but now that we've done it a few times, you can see the benefit of it. Absolutely. It's absolutely a must. Yeah, I find then as well, it's not just physically, you feel as if you start to feel, oh my God, am I losing these fitness gains that I've made? But it's mentally as well because you've been so used to being in a routine for potentially 12, 14, 16 weeks and the build-up where you've been active, you've had your routine and all of a sudden that stops. So, it's in your head as well, it's like, oh my God, what did I do? How did I fill this time? I've been out running, this is my running day, I'm not getting out now, what should I be doing? I should be doing something. Whereas, as you say, the science tells you that it's important just to have that time just to pull back a wee bit and let your body just give us the best opportunity to be at 100% for when you need it and that's when the starting gun goes. Yeah, definitely. And heading into yesterday then, conditions were pretty good, I think. Considering Storm Agnes was making an appearance towards the end of the week, we were looking at the forecast, weren't we? I think you messaged, or I messaged you and I was like, oh my God, mate, have you seen the forecast? And you went, mate, I've just been on the BBC website and it says it's only 16 and I'm like, mate, that's nuts. So, it was like 40 to 50km an hour winds but the day when we went there, it was calm, blue skies appeared. It was actually pretty mild, I thought. So, weather-wise and conditions-wise, it was as good as it was going to get, especially not following last week. I was really pleasantly surprised, actually. At some point, I was like, they're actually roasting here during it. But in terms of the goals, we kind of had a chatty before it and ultimately we wanted both to get a PB, which would have been the sub-124, but I think just the way our training was going and some of the training runs that we did, we did a big 18km walkout just a few weeks ago and we did 6km at sub-3.45 minutes per kilometre pace, a 6km easier pace and then a final 6km at sub-3.45 minutes. I think our last kilometre of that 18km was like 3.30, 3.33 or something like that. So, that run just gave us some confidence to think, right, let's go out and see if we can try and push towards that 120km goal, which is roughly around about 3.45 minutes per kilometre. So, to be honest, it was kind of going to be unknown territory for us because I think the furthest either of us had run at that pace continuously was like a 10km. Yeah, 10km, 12km. Yeah, 10km, 12km and so we knew that that last 9km was going to be like, this is kind of unknown territory. But I would kind of set out to try to get as close to the front as possible because we were on the same wave as between like 120km to like 145km goal times for the half marathon. So, quite a big difference. So, you didn't want to be straight at the start of these events, especially big ones, say like the Great Scots Run and stuff like that. It can be really quite cramped, like you can't even do a warm-up, can you? You can't even squat, you can't really stretch. It's actually that tight. So, when you start and you're all cramped in together, if you're behind quite a lot of people who's maybe running at a slower pace than you, it can really hamper the first sort of kilometre. Yeah, definitely. And also, as well, all that weaving in and out of people as well, just as distance. That's what you'd want to try and minimise. So, it's important if you do have that kind of time goal, it's important that you do go into the correct, what do you call that, correct bracket of people with similar performance levels to yourself. But also, as well, to try and just navigate the route as best and optimally as you can because I think every event we've done now, we've never actually run the distance. It's always been a good 400 or 500m sometimes over the actual distance. So, yeah, definitely when you're in that kind of start position, it's just to try and get in and optimise your actual position within the group. Yeah, no, definitely. But thankfully, it was not, I wouldn't say it was terrible. I think we managed to get to a decent enough position that it did open up. There was still the odd wee kind of jinking in and out, but it was not too bad. But in terms of the race itself, mate, I'll let you kind of just chat away there now, mate, in terms of how it went for you and then I'll kind of run through it. Well, I did get a new PV, but I was obviously pretty despondent after it. And I don't think, if you'd have told me on Saturday that I would have ran a 1.22 on my starter and it would have been a 3.54 split, I would have been delighted. But considering how well the first 15k went for myself, it's not that I'm disappointed with my time because I'm kind of happy with my time. It was what could have been. It was, I'll never know now. And that's the disappointment. First time for myself that I've actually been struck down by a stitch. Jordan, I know it's been yourself. When we've been doing the training over the last 18 months, it's had the biggest issues with having stitches and stuff. But this is the first time it's ever happened to me in all my training runs. I think I've ran like 2,500km on Strava and I've never actually had one. So it just showed up on race day and it's one of those things, trying to get to the bottom of what caused it. As I say, the nutrition side of it, everything was the same. So a wee bit disappointed, obviously, because it was at the middle section, 3-4k, where just physically, any time I tried to pick the pace up again, it was just that cramp and sensation just wouldn't allow it. And then it eased off again with about 2k to go and I managed to finish quite strong. But it's one of those things that happens to the best athletes in the whole wide world. And they've got the greatest teams behind them and the greatest sports science and stuff, and it can happen to them. So us mere mortals that are just doing it as something to try and go out and achieve for ourselves, you can't let it just get you to disheartened. No, mate, I think as well, just like these things can happen, I've known myself. Stitches, it was Fortness Madison, for instance, got a stitch for the last 5k to go and that stopped me getting the third three goal. But again, I got a PB that day, so looking back, I'm delighted I got quite a significant PB. But again, Cosmo was just so close to that goal. So if you run through, mate, up until, what was the first 10-15k like, mate? I think my 10k was 37 minutes flat, which on my Strava was my second fastest 10k ever. Even the 5k was 18, I think we were on. So at that point, we were flying. And then, as I say, I ended up running a 4.48, which when you put in a 4.48, considering your overall average, it still ended up 3.54. If you take a minute off of that, so it's, as I say, you'll never know. Who knows? I could have continued at 3.45 pace and something else could have happened. You just don't know. It is what it is. So you've just got to, and that's what I was saying to you there, I'd seen a quote this morning from Tim Duncan, who's one of the greatest basketball players of all time. And he says, when things go well, it's important not to get too high. And when things don't go well, it's important also not to get too low, as both can mess with your head equally. And I think we were talking about that. It comes from when things are going well, you can become complacent, you can become lazy. You think, don't eat work yourself here. Whereas on the flip side, you think, oh my God, things didn't go as well. It's at the end of the world. But some of the greatest learnings and some of the greatest lessons come from when things don't quite go to plan. So when I seen that this morning, I thought that could resonate with a lot of people because there's people that have certain goals that do reach them and some people that don't. So it's not to get too high or too low either way. It's about using that in the right way. It's about using... We still had a PV, but we didn't get to... We think we could have probably done more. So it's just like not letting yourself get too despondent. Similarly, for me, for Inverness, it's more like using that as fuel. Because you're like, right, missed that. I know what happened. So let's analyse it a bit. Let's see what we can do better going into the next one. And it's similar from the other perspective. If you went, right, okay, that went really well. But what went really well there? What did I do that I feel that really helped my performance that's going to get me further? Not like, ah, well, that's me done it. I've kind of ticked that off and I'll just put the feet up now. Because it does happen. Even myself, not so specifically running, but anything. Maybe you've had a good few weeks in business or something like that. And then you just subconsciously start doing a bit less than what you would normally do. Because you think you're cruising here. And then before you know it, you're like, what's happening here? So it's just about trying to keep going regardless and using lessons from both sides. Absolutely. I always convey that to my clients as well. That it's never just going to be a linear straight line journey straight to the top. You know what I mean? It's peaks and troughs. There's always going to be stumbling blocks or roadblocks put in your way that are there to test you. You know what I mean? Whether that is physically or mentally. And it's how you navigate them and how you then overcome them on the other side. So yeah, it's going to be highs and lows. I don't know if there's going to be anybody on this planet that's got a 100% record of every event at the event of. Everything's went to plan. Definitely not. Unless you're Floyd Mayweather, who now obviously gets paid billions to do. Because that's exactly what happens. He's not had enough. And he's an outlier. So no, it's 100%. And like you say, I can relate exactly to it. One year ago exactly when we did Loch Ness Marathon. Both the exact same, pretty much the exact same situation. In the sense that we were both running together a lot of the race. I ended up getting a pretty bad stitch the last 5k to go. You went on, got the sub 3 that we were both going for. I missed it by 3 minutes or so. Even though it was still a PB, I still felt a wee bit downhearted. But like I would say a few days later, you're like, well actually, look at what we've just put in. You've still got a 1.22, half marathon. It's not as if that's something to be sniffed at. And it's still a PB. So like we said, if you'd said on Saturday, before the race even started, that you'll get 1.22, you'd have probably been like, actually, I'd be quite buzzing by that. Because that's a good PB, solid. And you just don't know what's going to happen in the race. But it's just during that event. And for me the race, because I probably went overall really, really well. Because the start of it, the start of Glasgow, Great Scots Road, was just right uphill, right up St Dinesen Street. Quite a steep uphill. But at that point, adrenaline's pumping. There's a lot of people there. But straight away, as soon as I started running, my heart rate monitor just started kind of slipping off a wee bit. And I just thought, like, I cannot be bored trying to fix this all through this race. So I just like, was trying to rip that off. And like, I was just like, oh, is this a sign of things to come for the start of this race? Like I'm 300 metres in and I'm trying to mess about. And that's one thing I will actually highlight. So heart rate monitors, I actually think are really useful for training. They give you a really good indication. Because they're really accurate. So if you watch heart rate, like, it can be a bit hit or miss. Heart rate monitor's really accurate. So analysing heart rate in training, just seeing how hard that effort was and things like that, I think is really, really good. But see, to be honest, see in race days, I think I'm probably just going to leave them now. Because I think it's unlikely, especially a 10k half marathon, that I'm going to be checking my heart rate during the race and try to think, oh, I better slow down. During the race, you're going for it and it doesn't really matter what your heart rate is. So I'm not going to wear that going forward. I know we've spoken a lot about running gear and stuff like that. And we've mentioned heart rate monitors. But I think amazing for training. But in an all-out race that you're going for it, I don't think it's really necessary because you're not realistically going to be going, right, okay, it's maybe okay for the after analysis. But if it's annoying you, like, I was just like, right, get this off, put it into my belt. And then, I don't know if that kind of threw me off a wee bit, but the first 6, 7k we came in at a good 5k time, I just didn't really feel that great. I don't know if that just kind of got in my head a wee bit. And I was just like, this pace is feeling fast. And it's similar, I think, for a lot of races. Like, it does take you 4 or 5k to kind of settle into a good rhythm. And I was just trying to tell myself, like, this is the body just getting settled in. It's just getting settled in. And I really just didn't feel that great. And I thought, I don't know what's going on here. But we got through the half, I think, when we got through the half, around that 18, 10 or whatever it was mark. And I thought, right, that's a fast 5k. We're well in this. Because in my head, I felt like the first 5k was going pretty – I just didn't feel that great. But see, when I got over that, I was like, have a good 5k time. We're in this. And then I had my first gel at, like, 7k. And I don't know, it just seemed to kind of – I think it was a mindset shift. And then after that, it just seemed to feel like I was in the rhythm. And I feel like, although there was kind of ups and downs at the Falk Park area, I feel that even though there was ups, there was quite a good few downs that kind of broke it up a wee bit. And then, overall, I thought the course was quite good. A lot of people have said that there were a few inclines and stuff, and there was. But I feel as well like there was a lot of declines. You could kind of catch the breath, get the heart rate back. And I also feel like for the last good 6, 7k or whatever, I felt like it was really – When I look at this Strava elevation markers on it, as you say, the last kind of 7k is downhill, essentially. Obviously, it's not downhill, as in we're running downhill, but the elevation is minus on it. So, favourably, I thought the course was set up. Obviously, you've got the big – They say there's a big hill at St Vincent Street, but it's essentially 100m of incline. But I'm pretty sure on the elevation, that's good down as a negative, because the hill after it is so steep. So, yeah, you've got that initial bit that you've just got to get up on, but after that, there's a wee downhill stretch. So, I think, overall, the course actually was fine. And I think that really, really helped, because by the time I was getting to sort of – We got through the 10k. We were both still together around that 37 mark. And I thought – I'd said to myself before, I said, if we get under 38 minutes for the 10k, then I'm going to go for the 120 and just see how it goes. But as I was saying, it was that sort of 12k, 13k mark. I was going, we're in unknown territory now. I don't know how my body is going to react to running at this pace, at this distance. I've never ran this fast for this long before. And that was quite a weird kind of play in my head, going, I could easily cramp up right now. Like, my body might just say that this isn't happening. My energy might tank. I might get a rapid stitch. Like, all these things were kind of going through my head, but I just kept saying, look, let's just – We're in a good rhythm here. And I think the course really helped with that, because you weren't going, oh, there's another big beastie hill that I need to try and get over. Like, there was a lot of kind of – And especially when I was still in the game, like, the last sort of 7k, and it was kind of lots of flat, wee downhills. It just meant that the heart rate didn't spike, and I could just, like, continue and just, like, kept in that rhythm. And I think when I got to the last, like, 3k, I knew I could actually have slowed down the pace a wee bit and still got it. So I was like – At that point, I knew it was happening. But it was the same with you. I felt you – I saw you coming just next to me at the 15k mark. I was like, right, I'm going to push on here. Then it was just, that must have been when the stitch hit you, because I turned back and I just kind of looked, I glanced behind me. You weren't anywhere to be seen. I was just like, I hope you're all right. But you still came in with a beat, mate. Yep. Did you feel as well, mate, being in that group of, essentially, what is the top 100 competitors was something that dragged you and pulled you along and having the people round about you during the times where you were thinking, this could get tough here. But knowing that you were surrounded by the top end athletes was something that spurred you on. Yeah, no, definitely, mate. I think just running in the – you kind of get into rhythm, because, like, you'll see that when you look at kind of elite athletes when they're running, although they're running at rapid pace, they don't look like it. They actually look like they're just kind of gliding along. So, see, when you look at other people, you end up, like, being in that rhythm. So, you're just like, right, okay, I think I was running behind the – or just next to the female who finished second, or second female, and I just knew, like, she was running a different kind of bit, and I thought, right, she's going to be a cracking runner. So, if I can just kind of – and I knew, because she was still in line with us around about the kind of 13K mark, I was like, she's probably going for a similar time if this is her sort of pacing. So, I kind of just kind of kept her in my sights, and that definitely did help. I feel like, like they say with everything, surrounding yourself with folk, where you want to be and where you want to get to can really drive you up, and I think it's the same with running. I think we didn't have the luxury of a pacer. I think the first pacer was, like, 130. It wasn't a 120 pacer. That might have helped us even more, but there was no pacers at that stage. So, it was kind of like trying to look and see, is there anyone in this kind of group that's going to be going for that, and that definitely does help. I mentioned that to all the members. I was like, see if you can just find a pacer, find a group of people that are doing the similar. These will all push each other on and drag each other on, which definitely, definitely helps. Right, and I think as well, also, the atmosphere was, I don't think there was any stretch, apart from, obviously, even in Pollock Park. I was going to say apart from Pollock Park, but even in there, there was still... There was wee guys playing bongo drums at times. There was still stuff going on in Pollock Park, even in amongst, like, the forest and stuff when you were running out, and I don't think there was any point of the whole 21k where there wasn't anybody, maybe over the Kingston Bridge, but that's a tiny wee bit. Can you get people on that bit? You can if there's folk cutting about in the waterway, but as I say, apart from that, there was the atmosphere, especially the wee last bit when you were coming into the city centre and then down into Glasgow Green, you know what I mean? You were maybe four, five, six people deep, either side of you. Aye, well, that really helps. I think as well, if you know you're getting close to it and there's all the folk, and I think because it was a nice day as well, that really made a difference, but I definitely would recommend the Great Scottish Run if anybody's never done it before, because it's, especially on a decent day, it's really, really good. It's one of the best events I think you can do. It's just, the atmosphere's brilliant, and as we said, the course is actually, it is decent. Obviously, you'll probably get flatter courses out there. I think Edinburgh's quite flat, the marathon and the half-marathon there, but I think overall, other than a few hills that we mentioned, it's quite a decent course. So I managed to get in, because 119.21 was the official time, so under the 120, so I was absolutely delighted with that, and as you mentioned yourself, coming out of the 122, the PB, so overall, both great times, and it's obviously, if you didn't get that stint, there's absolutely, we would have definitely, we would have came in together, 100 per cent, there was nothing that was really stopping us at that point, so it's just one of those things that happens, as I said, it happened to me at Bloch Ness, and in terms of stitches, I don't know if anyone listening here suffers with them, I've been doing lots of research on them, like, I was just getting annoyed with them, because it seemed to be any time I was putting in a hard effort, and I was getting towards 18, 19k, I was just getting crippled with stitches, and having to slow down, and it was just really, really frustrating, as you'll know from yesterday, Jamie, but you said you've done a bit of research, so you've got a bit more of an idea now. I looked into it, because obviously, like I say, the nutrition side of stuff is usually what caused it, I mean, have you changed your breakfast in the morning, have you ate too close to the race event, but I hadn't done anything different from what I'd done in, really, all my training runs, I'd eat the same stuff, so I was thinking, well, it can't be that, I didn't over-consume water right prior to the event also, so the research was that a stitch, or what we commonly call a stitch, is actually a spasm of your diaphragm, so that's what causes a stitch, but it can also be caused by just increased exertion, or a change in breathing pattern while you're doing high-intensity exercise, which can bring on a stitch, which is, again, just a spasm of your diaphragm, so has it been, essentially, that I've just reached a point in the race where my breathing pattern has just changed quite quickly, and it's just caused me to go into a spasm, and we were looking at it on the course, but there wasn't that many hills, but where it happened was where the biggest elevation on the route was, and then when we look back to Loch Ness, when you were really bitten, was when that big hill appeared, so has it been, for both of us, maybe just a change in breathing pattern that our bodies just exert on so much to try and get so much out of it that, essentially, that's what it's caused? That's potentially what it's been, and if it is that, it's one of the things, I mean, it's probably out of your control, really, isn't it? It's just really, really difficult, because, as I said, when I was doing research as well, it's like, when you're obviously getting to the later stages of a race, as I said, we were in unknown territory at that point, like, we hadn't been running that long, your body, obviously, is going to be fatigued, and it's maybe your posture's maybe slightly changing from the initial start of the race, like, maybe your breathing's a wee bit more erratic at that point, because you've had to push up a hill, and all of that, and also taking gels, as you mentioned, taking gels can, like, it's a necessity, because if you didn't take the gels, then you're going to run out of fuel and hit the wall, which is probably worse than getting a stitch, so it's just like the lesser of two evils, but when you're running, obviously, taking all these things into account, like, breathing's maybe changed, posture's maybe not completely upright, because we're starting to fatigue a wee bit, then we're adding in water, we're adding in gels into the digestive system, so you think about all that happening at once, like, it's probably not a surprise that sometimes you will get a spasm here, or something, like, a stitch occurs, but it's just like, how can you avoid that? You can't really, in terms of, like, you need to take on water, you need to take gels, and it's just like, if you're going to be exerting yourself that much, then you might get a stitch, and it's surprising, to be fair, that you've managed to avoid them all this time, and it's not as if you could say, oh, I ate this before, or I did, I changed up my gels, or I did this, everything was the exact same, so it's like, some things you just can't really account for, and I was lucky this time with stitches, to be fair, I said to Jamie, I could actually feel it in that last 800 metres, that if I had to still go for another 2km or something, that I would have had a crippling stitch, because I could start to feel it coming on, just as I could see the finish line, thankfully, and actually, when I got over the finish line, I was like, I couldn't even really stand up straight, because it started to kick in, but thankfully, the time for me is, I'm also lasting a wee bit longer, before the stitch is coming on, but it's just one of these things, it's just like, on race day, on event day, some things you just cannot take, like, I had a few members, one member cramped up, and I was like, oh, and I had a few members, one member cramped up, and last week, at Edinburgh half, another member, his calf just tightened right up, but he was absolutely flying, and he had to kind of slow down for the last minute, like, these things are, you cannot, like, you can't train for that, and it's the same, we were mentioning it yesterday, some people that maybe train for Olympics, and things like that, and you see these guys that like, they end up getting an injury during the event, or whatever, or just before it, and they miss out, it's like, some things you just can't, can't account for, and that's, like I said earlier on, these people have got the best teams behind them, they've got the best sports science, they've got the best nutritionists, they've got the best coaches in the world, and it can happen to them, you know, so, obviously, it's all relative, isn't it, because it's like, you would have been in place, you were, like, obviously, a lot less, because you were so, so close to that, you were obviously, oh, god, I can't believe that's happened, but as you say, mate, like, to get back to that quote, it just relights the fire in you, right, okay, let's go again, you know what I mean, let's go and smash it, and see what Ilford can do now, yeah, rather than saying, oh, I've just missed that, I'm not going to, let's pass Martins, you could do that, I'd be like, oh, man, and just feel so despondent, and, you know what I mean, put your trainers in the cupboard, and be like, that's me retired, you know what I mean, but, no, you can use it the other way, and use it as fuel, to really spur you on again, and again, to learn from it, you know what I mean, so, yeah, that's it, that's it, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, 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