Q2-19850218-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-dialogue_problems_with_practice-1523 Leandra Tejedor (1)

Talk: 19850218-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-dialogue_problems_with_practice-1523 Leandra Tejedor Start_time: 09:45 Display_question: How can I do noting practice without judging what I notice? Keyword_search: noting, judgement, thoughts, fantasizing, frames of a movie, allowing, awareness, mind, party, Hors D'oeuvres, Walkman, breath, practice of recollection, pay attention, forget, remember, burglar alarm, instructions, waking up Question_content: Questioner: I find one…well… I have a problem, sort of noting, without judgment. Larry: When you say noting, do you mean making a mental note? Questioner: Yeah, well, what I've been kind of doing, or how I've been interpreting what you've been saying, is sort of watching my thoughts as they go along. A lot of fantasy, this type of thing. And then I see that I'm doing tha,t and I might kind of give a label oh, I'm fantasizing about such and such. And then there's the judgment… oh I shouldn't be doing that. So then, you know, I kind of know, okay, I'm judging myself about that. It just feels like it's kind of an endless… Larry: Yes Questioner: And then I shouldn't be judging myself. And then I go back to the breath… Larry: And it's going on, even now, right. Again, maybe this image will help. It's sort of frames of a movie. You know, this happens judging happens… You're right. If you keep it becomes… an endless kind of thing. You judge yourself for judging, and then judge yourself for judging that you judged. Okay, so is there any way out of that? And the way out is to simply hear the judging mind as such. In other words, to hear the mind do judging. Now, you're not judging it...you’re allowing… see, that's what was meant by…It’s like being a host or a hostess at a party, and to not lose sight of the fact that everything is a guest, everything that comes in, including judging. What's wrong with judging? You have something…you don't want judging to be at this party. But this is a big party. So judging comes in, and it's not less welcome than bliss. Now, I know, of course we want bliss. Great. You came to this party. Sit down here, have some more Hors D'oeuvres. But not with judging. We don't like judging. And so that's a lot of what we're learning…so and even the resistance to it. That's why it's ruthless. There's no escape. You might then see yourself. Well, I don't like judging, being here. Fine. So now the next frame of the movie, is seeing how judgmental you are, about judging. Break_line: So it's just the awareness. Awareness of judging happening, is not the same thing as judging. Is everyone clear on that? It's very important. So if there's any confusion, let's go over it as many times as needed. You're hearing…you’re hearing the judging mind at work. The mind is doing judging. You shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn’t…that was terrible. Why did you do that? Okay, if you identify with it, you're judging. If you just hear it, you hear it as just as if you put those things on your ears. What…you know…with a cassette and what? Questioner: Walkman. Larry: Okay. Walk, man. This is a…it's a new age Walkman. What you're putting on, you put it on. But what you hear, the cassette is your own mind. And you just hear it that way. You hear the mind thoughts chasing each other through that space, endlessly, agreeing with each other, disagreeing with each other, patting each other on the back. You know, whatever is going on, it's just coming and going. Okay, and then periodically, we get lost in it. We're judging. And then we wake up maybe five seconds later, or five years later, or whatever, and that process starts to become easier, as you learn to do it. Questioner: And the waking up would be hearing it instead of being. And if I don’t find myself doing that, then just go back to the breath. Larry: That's right. The breath is recurrent. It's always there. And that's part of the beauty of it. One of the reasons we talk to each other a lot, and we read books about it, and we go to retreats is, it seems necessary to hear it many, many times. And then the mind learns about that, and then it starts to remember. In other words, when it gets lost. It sort of grad… it’s sort of like a burglar alarm goes off. You know…oh, I'm caught… as you start to hear this because to tell you the truth, I think I've been saying one thing, for two and a half days now, but I've been trying to say it, in so many different ways, that we don't all get bored to death. You know, just pay attention to what's happening now. And more and more… there's another name for this practice, it's sometimes called the practice of recollection. Because the instructions are very simple, it's just pay attention, and learn from what you're paying attention to. But we keep forgetting to do that. Break_line: So, the practice is remembering to pay attention, forget, remember, forget, remember, until it starts to become smoother, and becomes a way of living, more and more, and not so tiring, and not so frustrating, or it gets frustrating, fine, then you see frustrating happening. The ruthless part, is that nothing is exempt. In other words, there's no vantage point to escape to, and judge all these other things going on, because then you just look at that, and say well, why are you exempt? You know the commentator that often reigns…you know sort of up on a cliff, watching everything happening. End_time: 15:09