Cheryl Ginnings and Laura Fox

Laura Fox is a ghostwriter who lives on an off-grid farm. She got into ghostwriting after starting out as an editor and collaborating with clients on their writing projects. Laura enjoys the opportunity to help others share their ideas and messages with the world. She builds close relationships with her clients through interviews and gets to the heart of their stories. Laura focuses on writing messages of encouragement and hope, helping her clients make a positive impact on the world. Where do you live? I'm in Tanaska, Washington. Where is it? It's in Washington State. Okay. But on the sunny side of the mountains. Oh, okay. What did you say the name of it was? Tanaska. It's a really small town. Oh, okay. I have a sister that used to live up in Seattle, in Kirkland. She moved to Oregon a few years ago after her husband died. She's lived down there for quite a while. Washington's beautiful in the summer, but boy, when I went in the rain, rainy season, it's not so much fun. How long have you lived up there? I'm from here. Oh, you are? Okay. Rainy season is about 11 months of the year. Where are you? I'm in Oklahoma. Oklahoma? Yeah, halfway across the U.S. Yeah, I've been there. Oh, you have? Where? Well, I was in Missouri. I don't know if that counts. Well, that's next to us, so that counts. Okay. No, it's still a little dry for us. We're on the Southwest part, but we have a daughter in Tulsa, so we always go through there on the way to Missouri. You're going in Missouri? Well, I was in... They're all really small towns. There's a place close to Ava. There's a little community there. Does somebody live there that you related to? Yeah, I stayed with friends for a while. Oh, okay. How big is your family? My family? Uh-huh. Two dogs, three cats, a whole bunch of chickens, two ducks, and a husband. Oh, my goodness. You have got the farm, huh? Yeah. Well, our daughter in Tulsa recently, well, let's see, I guess two years now, moved out into the country. They've got some goats and they keep getting out, and then they've got dogs, and they've got cats, and they've got neighbors' horses that come in. They've been trying to rebuild the fence to keep theirs in and the others out. Yes, it's a very familiar story. Yeah. That's good. Okay, remind me what we were going to do. I've had so many calls that I've kind of forgotten what I was doing today. Am I doing an interview for you? Yes. Okay. Yeah, so I'm a ghostwriter, and I see that you are too, so that's really great. Right. Okay. And how long have you been doing that? Over a year. I keep forgetting to look at when I started because people keep asking. I'm like, that's at least a year. Yeah. Yeah. How did you get started doing that? Well, I was doing editing, and people started giving me stuff that wasn't really completely written, so it just kind of sent people into writing. Well, I had one company that contacted me and asked me to do a lot of work, and it was to the background doing all their speeches that was going to be for events that had to do with the childhood sex trafficking. I did so much work on that, and then they were going to pay me for doing that, and then before I got it, I mean, I had a contract, and before I ever sent them anything, I told them I wanted half of the money up front, and then they wrote me and said, oh, we're going to go ahead and pay you for doing this three different programs because they had more work they wanted done. I got this check, and then I looked at it, and I held it for a few days when I put it in. It was no good, and so I'd done all that work, and I was supposed to be paid, and I thought, this is not okay. It was all, I enjoyed doing it. I mean, I really learned a lot, but I just don't know about some of these people. How do you vet them? How do you know? You started with editing. Yeah. Who were those people? How did they get a hold of you? From LinkedIn, and I looked up the company, and it's really a non-profit, and the non-profit was supposed to have, goodness, I lost my word. They were going to have one of their conventions, and so these were speakers that were going to be doing the presentations that I wrote, and I looked up the man that asked me, and he was a lawyer in Houston, and he did a lot of immigration work, so it looked legitimate, and then when I got down to it, and I got the check from somebody else, and it seemed kind of odd that somebody else was the one paying. Well, when I got that, I wrote him, and I said, what do you mean by doing this? Do they pay you? And I was like, is this something you set me up, or have you been taken also? What do you mean? Didn't you get the check? And I said, yes, and it's no good. The bank first told me two days before, we think this isn't a good check, and I was like, what? How do you know if you haven't let it go through? Well, it wasn't. It wasn't any good. Well, I never heard back from him then, so I contacted the organization, and I said, can you tell me about these people, you know, the ones whose names were on the check, and the lawyer, and they said, we don't know who that is. I was just, you know, I've done all that work, and I would love to present it somewhere, or do it for somebody else, because it involved a week. You know, I was really doing a lot of research before I did the writing. That was supposed to be $11,000. I was like, so happy to be able to do that. Anyway, I really figured out how to do this, where I'd get paid for this, through several companies, getting my certifications for different things, taking a lot of classes, and I was writing already. I already had two books out, and I've been in 16 others, and have things on the internet and everything, but I was just trying to improve my writing, and doing it for the people, so I would love to know how you get started off with the editing, even. Yeah, well, that is a known scam, that they contact you in a LinkedIn message. Oh, it is? Yes, and a lot of times, they'll tell you, they'll send you the check, and it's for way more than you're expecting, and then they're like, oh, well, if you could send some of the money back. You send them money, and then after that you find out the check is no good, so you lose out on the money that you sent them. That's how the scam works. They didn't get that far. You're lucky your bank caught it before they even, you know, they could see what was going on, so that was really lucky for you. But not so lucky that you did all that work and never got paid for it. I wonder if you could find a home for that work that you did. Well, that's what I've wondered, but I get so involved in other things, too. My mission has been trying to help families that have special needs children, and those families don't have money, and I understand it because we were always broke trying to pay for everything he needs. So I've done it anyway. Well, it's just too expensive to keep doing that out of my pocket because everything I've done was to try to help more people. Well, it's not a very good way to help other people. Yeah. I got started ghostwriting on Upwork, and the pay is very, very low because they have so many people competing for each job, and most of them are in other countries where they don't need to make as much. Right. But since you've already written two books, you can put that on your profile. The first job that I did was it was a book, and it was she was offering to pay only $900 to write the whole book. I talked her up to $1,100, and I did the book, but it took a lot longer than I was expecting, and she wanted it done in four weeks, which was crazy, and I worked myself sick, and I spent all this time on this project which was not making any money, so I actually had to take a payday loan to get by. Yeah. But that was my foot in the door. That book became an Amazon bestseller. It did really well. So, since then, I've been able to get, I didn't get any credit, but I can say that I wrote, I ghost wrote an Amazon bestseller. So, that book was only $1,100, and then the next one I did was $2,000, and the next one was $4,000. So, I just, every book I kept increasing my rate as I got more experience. Right. Yeah, but I've gotten to the point where most people on Upwork, I'm outside of their budget because, so now I'm on LinkedIn, and I just look for the people that I want to write for. My ideal clients are coaches, and their teachers, they have a message A lot of them have podcasts, TED Talks, they have courses online, they've been doing it for a while. They're really clear on what their message is, and they have everything about the book. So, when I see people like that that don't have their book yet, I just write to them. Say, hey, I love books, I see that you haven't written one yet, I'd love to help you with that. Oh, okay. Yeah, and people do respond well to that. And it's great because I get to pick my own clients, and so I get projects that I'm interested in. That's what I've been trying to figure out, that whole system of how do you do that, because you've gone through the process of all these classes, getting certified and all this stuff, that's just like, okay, I'm going backward. Mm-hmm. Instead of coming in. Yeah. But I've been writing for so many years, just because there were things on my heart. Yeah. And then I love doing research anyway. And so when I was asked to do other projects, it was just great, because I love doing that. And a lot of it was when I went back to finish my degree. And I've done videos, and I've done a lot of speaking and everything, but I need to go back and get things into more books, I guess, but in the meantime, I'm trying to do too many things at once. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you do decide to make it a priority, you know, just find teachers that you really like, you love their work, they don't have a book yet, you know, and that's how it works. You know, from your heart, just say, I really love your work. I would like to help you make it more accessible by putting it into a book. What's a book that you did? Well, I can't say because they're closed. Oh, okay. I didn't know if it was just between us if you could say, but that's okay. Yeah, no, a lot of the authors are very serious about their non-disclosure. So there's a contrast that you can't say. I can describe it and when people are thinking of hiring me and they want a writing sample, I can give like a little A blurb out of it. A blurb out of it, but I can't say the name of the book or the name of the author. What kind of books are you interested in? Well, inspirational, health help, health and wellness. That's me. Yep. All of those things that make life better. Yeah. Okay, let me ask you something then. Can I do an interview and ask you about some of the things that you like to do that are that help other people make life better by the work that you do and you don't have to tell what you can say to do the ghost writing or anything else, but I've started a new podcast called Heartfelt Perspectives and some of it's going to be audio and some of it's video, but I'm doing audio first but to try to get people to pay attention to things that are good instead of the negative things, to try to make the world better by focusing on the things that are right and how we can improve our lives the way we treat other people and I mean you could talk about what you do and the kind of work that you do and what you're looking for and I can put down your information out there too, but I would love to do that if that's okay with you. Yeah, I would love to be on your podcast. Okay, alright. Let me look here. I had something else that's coming up right on the next hour. Let me look here real quick. I'm trying to get a lot done and I have, we're going to be going out in a couple of weeks and I'd like to get more of it done before then. Okay. I wrote down something that happens at 11, but I don't think it's going to, but if it's okay, we could go ahead and I could just, if you don't mind, and then you can send me your information after. Oh, you mean do the interview right now? Yeah. Sure. Okay. Let's see. I'm on your Zoom. I believe your otter is recording it. Oh, well, that's just I forget to turn that on. I don't even know if it's on. I forget when I'm getting on there. Let me look here and see if it's going. All that is, is writing it. It doesn't even spell right or anything. I know. It's a lot more work, but I don't want to use the written. I would want to record. Okay. Is it okay if I do push the record then? Sure. Okay. Okay. Now, does yours allow Oh, yes, I probably need recording from video? If it doesn't, I can do that separate later. Okay. Do you want to hit record or do I need to do it? I will if that's okay. Yeah, go ahead. We're ready and then let me, I'll just, I'll ask you the questions and let you tell me the things that you would have put in a short bio or something, but just I'd ask you to tell me a little bit about yourself and how you got into what you're doing and tell me a little bit about what kind of impact that you're trying to have on the world that would help make the world better. Okay. That kind of thing. Is that all right? Yeah. Okay. All right. And I would describe you as a ghost writer and what else? What would I say? Just to introduce you, just a short introduction. Maybe ghost writer and off-grid farm lady? I don't know. And what kind of farm lady? The ghost writing is kind of all consuming lately besides the goats. Okay. The goat lady, I guess. Not very many people can tell me that, so. I love it. You're out where you don't have to worry about a lot of the things that people in cities are having to worry about. All the crime and stuff that it troubles me so much to think that our grandchildren and great-grandchildren are going to have to deal with a lot of these things we didn't have to deal with growing up. We could play outside and nobody cared. I mean, we were safe. So, anyway. Okay. Let me go ahead and I'll start then. All right. Okay. Okay. I have to ask your permission, so you'll have to tell me if I can record. Okay. Hi. This is Cheryl Jennings and today we're going to have a short interview with Laura Fox with our heartfelt perspectives. As you know, I like to find people that are doing things that are making our world better and to share some of the perspectives that they have on ways that we can actually improve our world by the way that we treat people and how we look at the good things in life instead of focusing on negative things. I recently met Laura and she is a ghost writer, which is very interesting to me since I am also a ghost writer and she has been doing this work and has actually got a best-selling book under someone else's name. So, this is exciting. I wanted to introduce her and she gave me permission to say she's an author and that she has a goat farm. I love this. And welcome, Laura. I am so glad to get to know you and get to visit with you today. Well, thank you, Cheryl. I'm really glad to be here with you. Well, tell me a little bit about how you got into the work that you're doing now and what made it appealing to you to do the ghost writing. Okay. Well, I've always loved writing. I've been writing stories for as long as I can remember. And when I was younger, like in my 20s, I would send my stories out to magazines and stuff, but I always did it under a pen name because I was shy. And then, when I moved off-grid, I needed ways to make a living that were online because I couldn't just go into town and get a job. So, I started writing resumes for people for an online company and I started doing some editing work and from that, it just kind of transitioned from editing into doing more of the writing. Sometimes people would send me stuff and it wasn't really complete or think of a better way to say it. So, I would say, hey, do you want me to help you with writing this? And so, it became more of a collaboration, which is a lot of fun. I love collaborating with people this way. Right. Oh, that's fun. Collaboration's a big thing now, especially with everybody home doing a lot of their work and then they're looking for people to work with without having to go to offices. Tell me a little bit about where you live and how this affects your writing. Okay. Well, it's pretty rural. My husband and I have 20 acres and there's no grid here. So, we set up our solar panels and we haul water. We have five goats and two dogs. They're livestock guardian dogs, so they hang out with the goats and protect them. We have three cats and it's not real safe for cats because of the coyotes and other predators. So, I built a big catio around the camper that we live in. It's like a big cage that we're inside of so the cats can have some outdoor space and they can go up on the roof. Way too many chickens. They hid their eggs last year and now there's at least a dozen roosters. They're little chickens, so it's not that bad and the eggs, when we can find them, are nice. A couple of ducks. So, yeah, it's pretty beautiful out here. It's peaceful. I get lots of time to write, so I'm really grateful for this place. That's great. What is it like to have to haul water, though? It seems like that would be really heavy. I just can't imagine having to do that. Tell me a little bit about it. We put it in the truck. Okay. Yes, we have a 200-gallon tank on the ground with a hose that runs to the camper that we live in. We have a 200-gallon tank that we load into the back of the pickup and we just drive down into town and fill it with city water and come back up and put it in our tank. Other than that, it's usually pretty normal as far as running water. Oh, okay. Water chores are kind of fun. Well, this is such an interesting background, though, because I've been in the city so long, I don't think about how people would be able to get water in a place that they don't have the water already in the pipes, in the ground, or something. We were snowed in over the winter and I had to melt snow for water because we couldn't go and get it. Oh, wow. How much snow did you get where you are? The last couple of winters, it's been kind of crazy everywhere, but we got a lot of snow and it was on the ground for a long time. Oh, wow. Yeah. If you get snow, a lot of times there's other things in the snow. How do you get it clean? How do you filter? You filter the water after you've melted it? It's actually pretty clean out here. Yeah. Oh, good. Okay. I mean, there's little stuff from the trees, but I don't think that hurts anything. Yeah. All right. Tell me a little bit about what got you into the area of loving to write the ghost writing. What is it that appeals to you about doing that for others without having your name on it? Yeah, it's other people's ideas and it's things that they've held in their heart usually for a long time, and it's a message that they really strongly want to get out into the world, but they either don't have time to do the writing or writing is just not their thing. Maybe they have a writer's block. So to be able to help somebody in that way with something that's so important and so personal to them is really an honor to go into that relationship of being a ghost writer and just kind of being their scribe, putting my own self aside and doing something for them that they can't do for themselves. Tell me about how the relationship develops once you started being this kind of a writer where you're actually getting into somebody's heart and their head and telling their stories. What kind of things help you to ask them about what's in their hearts and how does it make the world better by focusing on this kind of writing? Well, it's through interviews. It's through developing. I think ghost writers and their clients often do have a close relationship. You get to the point where you can tell each other anything because you have to because you're working on this work that's kind of bigger than either of you. The other question was about how it affects making lives better because what you're doing definitely seems like it is you're focusing on the message that they want to get out. It would be a message of hope or a message of courage. What kind of messages do you find the most appealing and how do you help them dig those messages out? Yeah. There are messages of encouragement and hope and the author is connecting with people in the writing and it's such a beautiful way to connect with people and to say for the author to say, yeah, I've been where you are and this is how I got through it and you can get through it too. I think those are my favorite kinds of messages. That's the kind of message that I like to get out. I focus a lot on helping people that are going through problems of having family members that they're caring for and especially those that are probably caring for special needs children because I have a son that has special needs and a lot of the problems that we went through early on all the way through his life so far when we would get to a really hard spot where we didn't know how we were going to find an answer, working through it helped us become stronger people but we also now I want to give that message of hope to other people that yes, it's hard but yes, you can do it and you are stronger than you think you are because you have accomplished going through things that a lot of people would say, I could never do that. It's always been amazing to me how many times we look at each other and we see problems that other people are going through and we say, oh, I can never do that. Well, if it was your problem to deal with, you can find a way to do it and that's what I think we forget sometimes that when you're looking at what other people are going through, how do you respond to them about some of those things? Do you help them find their feelings about well, their emotions and everything about what they've gone through so that you can pull out the things you see that are strength or do they usually just tell you what it is that they want to tell the world? Yeah, I do pull it out of them sometimes. Writing is a very intense experience. You really have to go deep into your thoughts and you have to go deep into your heart and that's true whether you're yourself putting the words on the page or going through a ghostwriter. It's still that really intense process of examining yourself what you believe, what you know, what you feel and then making something cohesive out of it that will speak to other people in a way that helps them. That's great. I mean, I think it's wonderful because I know a lot of people. They don't like to speak or they don't like to write or like you said, they don't have time because they're so busy. So how do the people find you if they're looking for someone to help them write their stories? I actually found most of my clients myself. I go looking for teachers. I like working with coaches especially but I find people that I love their message. I love what they're doing. They have podcasts, sometimes they have courses, TED Talks, but they don't have a book yet. So I reach out to them and I say, hey, I love your work. I love the message that you're putting out there. Would you like me to help you put it into a book? And those are my favorite ones. If somebody wanted to have you help them with that, could they get in touch with me and then I could relate their story so you could check them out and see if they're interested in having you help them to do the story? Definitely. Yep. And they can also find me on my website and on LinkedIn. What is your website? It's gurusghost.com gurus gurusghost.com Okay. I love that. And then on LinkedIn, they can just find you by your name, Laura Fox. And then tell me what it felt like when you wrote a book for someone and the first book became an international bestselling book. Well, I don't know if it was international. Oh, okay. Yeah. It felt really nice because it was a book on self-confidence for teens, which is such a necessary topic, you know, and I put a lot of stories into that book and it was just really nice to see that it touched so many people and people wrote long reviews about how much it helped them and their kids and that was just so rewarding. Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah, it's good to know and that's the kind of thing that we need more of, isn't it? Where we share the stories of success because we have so many people that are so depressed these days and all they hear is something negative and we hear about all the things that are going wrong instead of anything that is really going right and good. And I think a lot of people forget that life isn't just what you hear about on TV or on news stations or whatever. It's what happens on day-to-day, person-to-person, and helping each other become better people and that's one of the things I'm so focused on because I want the world to be better and I've been in a group now where we're focused on helping families every way we can and recently I was on a summit where I got to interview a lot of speakers and I was interviewed too, but on this summit, I found that we've already had over 80 million people who have listened to that summit, which blows my mind. Wow. Everybody on there is focused on helping women, children, focused on getting the message out of support and encouragement and to help people live better lives and it is global and so it's just to hear the success stories really helps other people to think, okay, if you can do it, I can do it too. And that's the thing that I believe is missing a lot of times for families when they're going through a struggle. They may not want to tell people what they're going through until it gets to be so bad it's evident but by then, they're really not wanting to work through it, they just want to get away from the problem. You know, they don't see any way to solve their problems and so if we can help people learn, you know, when this happens, this is how I did it, maybe that helps you or that gives you an idea about how you can solve a problem, that's even better but to focus on teens is really amazing because that's the group of people that need to see hope in our world. They're in a very vulnerable place where a lot of them get a bad rap because there are teens that are in trouble all the time and doing things and we think, how can this happen? And yet, they're not seeing people really support them sometimes so I love what you're doing. I love that. Well, is there any kind of a suggestion or is there a quote or anything that you can think of that you'd like to leave with the people? Yeah. If you have it on your heart to write a book, go for it. I think that, you know, too many people just kind of keep it on the back burner and they really do have a story that can touch others and encourage others. If you just write it out, just put it out there and see who you connect with. Thank you because I know that's true and a lot of people have gone through experiences that we may never have to go through but the fact that it gives us hope to go through things that are less difficult or make us less vulnerable but yet we think we can't do a lot of things until we do. And it's those success stories we need to hear about. I love getting to talk to you, Laura, and I wish you the best with your goats and your chickens and living out where the coyotes are. I mean, that's just, it's fun to know what you're doing and to know that you are helping so many people get their stories out there. And I appreciate you taking time to be with us today and I will look forward to putting your information out there so other people can see what you're doing if they'd like to get in touch with you. I would love that. Thank you so much. Well, you're welcome and thank you for taking the time to be with us. We look forward to another time we can talk about things that are on our hearts and have our heartfelt perspectives to share with the world. I look forward to the next time we get to visit. Thank you, Cheryl. Thank you. Recording in progress. Was that not recorded? That was not recording. It's recording now. What? Did yours record? Recording stopped. Why did it start when I pushed that button? Oh, bummer. That was such a good time. That might be on your audit. Okay. Well, let me see. I don't know how to look at that. We may have to do it again. Yeah. Bummer. What I can do, though, is try to take that to ask you questions again. I won't have to do it right now, but I would like to find out what's happened here. Yeah. Recording in progress. It didn't record then. Recording stopped. Yeah, your audit is still here. I think it just shows online. It shows online. So it might be if you let me see. I think your audit failed me. Five notes now. Now, do you have it recorded on yours? No. See, I asked you if I could record it, and it said yes, so I've seen all it took. I haven't done it through somebody else's before, so. Oh, shoot. Yeah. I think the audio was recorded on Otter, and you can probably use that for your podcast. Well, Otter is usually just the words on paper. It's not a voice. I mean, not the audio. No, it's the audio, too. Oh, it is? Okay. All right. Well, I'll try that out, and if it doesn't, then I'll get back with you. And let me get your email, so I can send you a few things that you can send back, like your picture, a little bit, a short bio, how people can reach you, and that way I can put it with the audio. Okay. Yeah. And also, Cheryl, I wanted to invite you to speak at my summit. Oh, cool. Yeah. Love to. When is your summit? It's from August 7th to 11th. Okay. And there's going to be 21 speakers, half live and half pre-recorded. Okay. Yeah. And the reason for the summit is a lot of the people that I talk with are really excited about writing a book, but they're just kind of intimidated by the whole process of going through publishing and then marketing. So, I thought that to offer them encouragement, I would get together a bunch of coaches who have done this. They've authored books and published them and gone through marketing in them, so they can speak from experience and just kind of give them some encouragement about the whole process. That would be fun. I'd love to do that. August the 7th through the 11th, so you'll be getting back with me and tell me what you'd like to do. If you want to do it live or recorded. I don't mind either way. If the dates are open, good still, let's just plan on me doing it live if that's what you'd like, and if not, then we'll do it recorded. I'll let you know how the schedule works together. The recorded ones will happen any time in June or first two weeks of July. Then each speaker is going to email their entire list twice during the promotion period. I'll send you the materials for the emails. It can be two solo emails or one can be a blurb in your newsletter. Okay, two emails and two blurbs. Either two emails or one email and one blurb. Okay, what I might do is to actually do a newsletter on my LinkedIn that it would get even more. I mean, I could put more out there because I've got over 20,000 on there, so that would maybe hit a lot more people than I email. Okay, how many people do you email? Not as many. I do more social network because I reach more people that way. I don't know. I don't count. I have so much email coming in. Could you do at least one email? Oh, yeah. I can do that, but this other I think is even better because you reach a lot more people. I've got 4,000 little plus subscribers on top of that. I also answer questions on Quora. Are you familiar with that? Yes. Do you ever get on there? No, I read it sometimes, but I've never written anything on there. Well, I've got over 430,000 the last time I looked. Not long ago, I got a question that Google sent me that Angelina Jolie wanted me to answer about cerebral palsy. I was like, really? That's from being on Quora. It's kind of fun to see where it goes, but that's another thing I'm trying to do. In the meantime, I want to put together a book with the questions that I've been asked that would help people to know me because that's what they want to know. Some of the questions that I've been asked will have 30 or 40,000 people wanting to know that one question. What's it like to live in a home where you have a special needs person? But then another one that was the biggest that I can remember was, how do I tell my aunt that she's not going home? That one, I've just got so many people that were interested in that because people don't know what to say. They really don't. I had done three years of interviewing caregivers before I wrote my book. It takes courage to be a caregiver. I'd interviewed people that had worked with every kind of disability there was, but the ones that helped me with dementia and Alzheimer's, I just loved knowing that because my mom had some dementia and my aunt had Alzheimer's. I may have it these days. I want to know. Just learning how to help other people deal with it because I've seen some that just abandon. That's not okay. I don't want to be abandoned. If I can't remember you, don't leave me. I see that with people and I don't like that. But anyway, that's great. What's your email? I'll send it to you because I have your email. For the interview on the summit, do you want to talk about your process of writing your book or publishing part or what aspect do you want to talk about? How about if we do the writing? Why you would want to write a book? Okay. Because people don't always think they know anything or what they would want to write. But I think that's one of the big why question of why would anybody care what I write? That maybe would help people think oh, if she can do that, I can do that too. Okay. That sounds good. That sounds great. That's fun. I love this. This has been a lot of fun to get to you. Yes. This has been a lot of fun. I've never been on a podcast before. This is exciting. Well, if it's not recorded, I will be back where we'll do it again. But then I'll have some of the things that I asked you that you can tell again because I loved what you were talking about. Okay? Okay. Thank you. All right. Well, you have a great day. Look forward to talking to you the next time. Yes, thank you, Laura. I'll send you an email. All right. Thank you, Laura. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.