Developing Healthy Relationships

The transcription is about a conversation with a guest named Furcan on a podcast. Furcan is a therapist, author, speaker, and coach who has made a career pivot from engineering to psychology. He shares his journey and the work he does to help others with their mental health. He emphasizes the importance of self-relationship and discusses topics like vulnerability, seeking therapy, and the body's response to repressed emotions. Overall, the conversation highlights the need to prioritize mental health and seek support when needed. You have to have that relationship with yourself and I don't think a lot of people put enough emphasis on it. So that's been my biggest learning over the last few years. Hi loves! Welcome back to another episode of Branded and Tailored. Alright Taylor, who we got this week? What are we talking about? So, we are bringing on my friend Furcan, which I met him at a bar. Now, I would have thought in my adult life I would have met my significant other at a bar. But we continue to meet other people, which is completely fine. But this individual, I met him whenever I was in Alberta in Banff, Canada. And I walked into a pub, was waiting for my sister at the airport, ran into him and all Canadians are super friendly. So of course, whenever I ran into him, we just bumped and had conversations about basketball, life and just went on this whole philosophy journey on everything. And so, we kept in touch, kept following his Instagram and his adventures throughout this whole time. And finally bringing him on here onto the podcast to share about his journey, what he's been through and his work that he's working on currently. Which is just literally moving mountains for people and to help others tackle into their vulnerabilities and developing a focus on mental health. I'm super excited to meet him. Alright everyone, so welcome to the podcast, my friend Furcan. He is a therapist, author, speaker and coach. And after years of going through adversity and working in the corporate world as an engineer, he surprisingly made a huge pivot and decided to pursue a master's in psychology. So from there, like I said before, he is a therapist. He has his own podcast called EZ Conversations. And the podcast focuses on mental health with the purpose to help other people embrace their vulnerabilities. And on top of all of that, he has also just released a book called Pursuit of Self-Love, 30 Uplifting Messages and Reflections, which is available for purchase on Amazon and maybe other places as well. Yeah, I mean, it's available online, but yeah, definitely on Amazon and directly from the publisher as well, Freeds and Press. Perfect. Well, again, welcome to the show. So happy to have you on. Thank you for having me on and thank you for the intro. I appreciate it. Absolutely. So, I mean, like I said, I gave a brief background about yourself and your wonderful accomplishments and ongoing accolades. But could you go ahead and maybe give a more in-depth about your background, why you chose to pivot the way you did into psychology and your purpose of meeting now? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I started off, I finished my undergrad in engineering in my early 20s. And then I started working as an engineer, moved out to Western Canada. So I grew up in Eastern Canada in Montreal and, yeah, kind of went through the motions, worked, worked, worked and had these achievements set out for myself that one day I'm going to be the vice president of the company or whatever. I had all these goals. And then about 10 years ago, I was blessed with a child. So my son came into this world. And as most people have these experiences, life changing experiences, for me, it was also an existential kind of question around, is this what I'm really meant to do? I started asking, OK, what if I achieve these titles and roles that I've set up for myself? What does that really mean to me as a father? Am I becoming a better father? Like, am I going to be a part of my son's life? And I would see a lot of these leaders working all the time. And for me, I felt like I wondered if they were present in the lives of their children. And that's not something I wanted. So and then there's other questions around, OK, well, am I giving back to this world? Right. So lots of questions. And then to avoid that, I started doing more schooling. I went and got an MBA. That didn't really help. And then I started going through a divorce five years after my son was born. So that kind of forced me in a way to go seek out therapy to deal with all the changes I was going through at that time in my life and help me transition to the next chapter. But then I also realized that I'm not the only one, especially as a man who struggles with this. There's a lot of shame around divorce, a lot of struggles and challenges around men being able to talk about their mental health. So I figured myself going through this experience, how can I be an advocate and support other men? And that really kind of started this journey that I'm on currently. So I toyed with that idea and then really during the pandemic decided to pursue my master's in psychology. And around that time, I started really diving deep and started my own podcast and then a year later started writing. So, yeah, that's kind of what that's what's brought me here now is just navigating through that. I facilitate men's groups as well, co-facilitate one here locally with a friend of mine. And I'm almost, I'm doing my practicum now. So once I get my hours in, then I'll be able to work full time as a therapist as well. So lots on the go, but it keeps me motivated and excited to be able to hopefully give back. That is just such an amazing backstory too. And it just shows that, I mean, for a lot of people that are going to school or in school currently, you know, whatever you're pursuing at the moment doesn't have to be your end all be all at the end of the day. You can easily, like you just said, pivot and find what your passions are and what your purpose is. And, you know, go ahead and pursue that like you are doing. Through this journey, what is a-ha, like that a-ha moment or that like little win so far, or your biggest achievement so far on making this pivot? There's been a lot of a-ha moments. I mean, if I were to label anything as achievement, I try not to label things anymore. That's been part of the journey. But if I were to label anything as an achievement, it was just being able to tap into my own beliefs in myself. But at the same time, holding myself accountable to maintain humility. That was one thing I lost as I achieved success early on in life at a young age. Being able to check off all the things I had set up for myself, all the boxes, I was checking them off. There was this sense of arrogance and almost like I felt like, oh, things are great, you know, and nothing really can hurt me. So this sense of invincibility, but then when I kind of hit my rock bottom, as they call it, I realized that, you know, what really changed along the way was I had lost my ability to be humble and grateful for all the things I had and not take those for granted. So that's been a huge shift for me. Even when great things happen, I try to keep a level head and be grateful and not get too over the top about it. I feel like you've been maybe that one friend too, even prior to this new journey of yours, that maybe your friends would seek you out for advice on life or big time decisions. Have you always been that kind of friend or that person to go to for things like that? I think I always had insight, but because I wasn't fully grounded or I wasn't comfortable in my own skin, I don't think I came off as that type of person that people would need to seek out for advice. But now I feel like because I try my best to be vulnerable and live my truth, I would like to think that brings more people in and they feel comfortable sharing and seeking help. Because I've been through so much myself, I realize that there's no judgment for anyone. I've made tons of mistakes along the way. I still continue to make mistakes. So it's having that mindset. So even if someone were to share something really raw and vulnerable, I tend not to judge because I know how hard life can be and we all do things in the moment thinking this is what we need. Whether it hurts us or it benefits us, we just do whatever. We're in survival mode at times. So that's that aspect of no judgment. So I feel because of that, people are more comfortable sharing with me. But whereas in the past it wasn't because I myself was wearing a mask in a way and not myself. Yeah, I think what you just said is really interesting because it's been part of my mental health journey was realizing that I was in survival mode for a very long time. And I was able to trick myself into thinking that I was fine because I was so focused on school and excelling and doing very well, getting into grad school. And then when it just broke, it broke hard. And I really had to sit down and think about my mental health and what I needed to do and what I needed to focus on so that I could be okay with myself. Easiest way to say it. So could you talk a little bit about what survival mode is and what that means? Yeah, I mean, that's survival mode, I guess for a lot of people can vary, right? It's so broad and everyone kind of finds different ways of surviving. Some people will seek out relationships to survive because that gives them a sense of validation or they can avoid some of the things that need to be dealt with. Some people will just delude themselves, right? There was a lot of times where I did that to myself too, where I just was delusional and didn't think I needed help or I was living this great life when I hadn't really healed a lot of things from my past. So yeah, some people do that. And then in some extreme cases, they're addictions, right? And to me, I am a strong believer that we all suffer from some sort of addiction, right? So I guess the most common one is our phone. We're all glued to it. I know if I misplace my phone, I start getting anxiety. So that just shows that there's something not healthy there. But other more talked about forms of addiction, whether it's alcohol, substances, porn, exercise could be a form of addiction. So there's all these different things that people pick up just so they can avoid some of the tough things that need to be dealt with. I know when I started my therapy journey, there was a lot of stuff from childhood that I wasn't even aware of was in my subconscious and I had to bring it to my conscious awareness and work through. And I don't know if a lot of people go that deep because it's so painful and difficult. And that's where I've read a lot of work by Carl Jung. And he talks about that rate where you almost have to face that aspect of your unconscious. Otherwise, it manifests itself in different ways. And those are the survival mechanisms we pick up because we haven't dealt with those things. So they'll show up in different ways. And people often wonder, why am I attracting the same type of person over and over in relationships? Well, it's because there's something you haven't dealt with. So you find yourself comfortable in these dynamics that you're used to. Or if you keep putting yourself in a similar situation over and over again and fail to recognize that you're probably the common denominator. So what needs to change? So, yeah, it's really recognizing these survival mechanisms we pick up or put around ourselves and trying to understand where they're coming from, what are we trying to cover. And sometimes you need to work with a professional. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what I try to tell people because there's that whole stigma around seeking help. Some people think they don't need it. Some people think. I was one of those in the other school of thought where I thought if I thought out therapy, I've accepted failure. So there's a lot of things, right? There's a lot of narratives that go around therapy too that people need to work through. And that's kind of my hope is I can help at least bring that to people's awareness and get moved past that stigma around seeking help. As a therapist now, do you still feel like there is a strong stigma of going to therapy and seeking help? Or is it kind of more accepted now? I mean, I think it's moving in the right direction. We still have a long ways to go because if you look at it, suicides, statistics, still very high numbers, right? So clearly we have a long ways to go. I even see it. I mean, the people that come for help, that's great because they know they're coming. But I also see it in my social circle with a lot of friends that don't believe they need to seek out help. Or for whatever reasons, it could be financial constraints, some of the other reasons I mentioned previously. But yeah, there is still a stigma despite the fact that it's more talked about and it's more common. I believe we still have a long ways to go. I think the younger generation is more accepting of it. But it's really the baby boomers or some of the following generations that need to get more comfortable and recognize that there's nothing wrong with seeking that help. Yeah, and we talked about love languages in our past podcast episodes. And Cecilia and I kind of both shared that words of affirmation were at the top of our list. And when we reflected on that, we thought, oh, well, maybe that's because as children, we grew up in a household where we didn't really talk about our feelings or express those feelings. So that's depressed all of all those emotions that we could have gained as children. So now as adults, not that I'm seeking it, but I definitely take that as value because I never really received it growing up. So I guess all those two kind of point to that, too. Yeah, that's something we talked about. I like words of affirmation if they're meaningful words of affirmation, not just like generic compliments and things like that. Things that are showing that somebody is paying attention to you and what you're saying, because that is part of my intergenerational family trauma. And us not, families just like not talking to each other, not really discussing feelings. And so that's something I see through different generations of my family is, you know, not being able to identify emotions, figure out where they come from, don't know how to handle them. Like it's very much the learn thing. And so I've been practicing and going to therapy, so I get better at that. But it's really difficult even to talk about some of this to my family because they just don't get it. It's like, you know, I'm really having a hard time right now. And they're, well, it's just, you know, take a day off, you'll be fine tomorrow. That's not how this works. I need to stop avoiding these things so I can, you know, be long term better. So I do see a lot of that. And I think that's a little bit, I think, of the tension right now with some people being very hesitant with therapy and some people being very open. I think that has a lot to do with it, is people being okay with accepting that emotions are real and that they can affect our behavior and how we treat ourselves and other people. One of the things I noticed that I wanted to talk to you about when looking at your bio and some of your work is subconsciously, like, holding on to adversity and trauma and how that can really manifest in your body was something I've noticed with my therapist. So every once in a while she'll tell me, like, hey, stop. Like, what's going on? Tell me what you're thinking. And then she'll ask me where I feel it in my body so we can try to figure out what nervous system, basically, I'm activating. So I thought that would be super interesting for you to kind of expand on that because it sounds like that's something that you're really focusing on. I found that that's been very helpful for me. Yeah. So are you referring to kind of how the body stores some of that information? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, there's a couple of great books I can suggest right off the top. One of the ones I'm sure people have heard of because it's talked about all the time, but it's by Bessel van der Kolk, The Body Keeps the Sport. So that one's really profound. Another one I recently read that hasn't, at least from what I've come across, hasn't received a lot of attention, but it's by Dr. Gabor Mate. Its title is When the Body Says No. So in all those cases, when the body says no is something I read recently, so it's a lot more fresh in my head. But essentially what happens to your, as both of you have mentioned here, when we're not able to express our emotions, what we end up doing is we repress them. Now, what that does is creates stress in our bodies. So the stress can be stored anywhere, and because we're not openly expressing our emotions, we're continuing to build that stress, and that can then show up in different ways. It could be chronic pain. It could be diseases. It could be sickness. And a lot of the times people aren't even able to diagnose this with the help of their doctor, and quite often it's working through some of these emotional experiences. And quite often what happens also is as children we build certain patterns and dynamics with our family members, whether it's our siblings or our parents, and then we continue to repeat those into our adult life. It could be with the same family members, or it could be with our partners because we seek out similar relationships. And then we continue to repress those emotions because we're in the same dynamics, and that's where a lot of those issues occur. And then there's obviously a lot of science behind it that I'm not an expert on to be able to talk through. What I tell my clients is to understand the language of emotions. So a lot of times people don't even have the words to be able to express themselves. So most people will be like, I'm feeling mad, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling angry. That's it. But if you look online, what I tell people to go look is at the emotional wheel. Under sad, under mad, under angry or whatever, there's other more defined specific emotions. So for people that are curious, go check it out and understand some of those emotions and see which one you really align with. So now you have the language, and then it's easier to also express yourself. So if you don't have the language and you can't describe your emotions, how are you going to tell others that, hey, this is what I'm feeling, and for them to understand, right? So those are some things people can do as well in order to improve their communication. And it's important to take those opportunities because, yes, it's important for us to be heard. That's fair. But it's also our responsibility to be able to express ourselves. I've been in situations where I've just been like to a former partner, you should just know, right, how many times we say that. So how can the other person know if I'm not able to express it or I haven't given them the opportunity to even express myself? So just some things to be mindful of. But, yes, to answer your question in a nutshell, the body does end up storing a lot of those repressed emotions. And for me, as I've gained more awareness of some of these, when I get triggered, for example, now I can feel it in different parts of my body. Most of the time it's in my chest or my back. Then I know, okay, something's out of alignment. This is a cue for me to perhaps work through this, ground myself and breathe and understand, okay, where is this coming from? What happened? What set me off? But, yes, I think the biggest piece I can offer to people is just pause, take a break, relax. That was something I struggled with. That's so fascinating because, yes, I didn't even think about. I mean, it makes sense, too. If you're not being open about your feelings, your emotions, then, yes, it's going to show up in ways than just being open like, hey, this is super frustrating and this is why I'm angry, mad, or just confused about a situation or things like that. Yes. I mean, the other thing is often people really struggle and their family members aren't supportive or even open to hearing those things because they have their own traumas that they struggle with. So in those cases, obviously, you can go to a therapist, but if that's something that you don't want to explore, the other thing you can do is find a friend that you trust, right, that you hold dearly and close to yourself, and it could be a very trusting and open relationship where you can have those conversations with each other. So the goal here is, if you or the listeners are familiar with attachment styles, is finding that secure attachment base, right? So sometimes it could be a therapist or it could even be a friend if it's not your family members. So finding that secure attachment base because what happens is most often as children we have insecure attachments, and that also prevents us from building the resilience to deal with adversity as we get into adult life. So find those secure attachment bases, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a significant other or a family member. You can find that in your friends. The other thing I find is through the group work I do, you often find that there as well where it's a safe place. You can trust everyone. Everyone's putting their feelings, their emotions, whatever they're struggling with on the table. So it's a very open and safe space. So finding those secure bases, and then there's an aspect of spirituality there too where you can find secure attachment base through your faith or belief system. So other forms of finding that and building the resiliency to overcome that adversity. Yeah, thank you for sharing all that. I know because I work with different students, and especially at a young age, I mean, our natural instinct of whenever we're confused about something is we fall back on family. Like, well, I don't know what to do about, I mean, I'm going to talk about academics, for example. I don't know what to do about my major, what I want to pick, what I want to pursue, so I'm going to talk to mom and dad, family members, and get their opinions and kind of go from there. And, you know, that could be great as a foundation, but they're not, they shouldn't be your end-all be-all or your main source of information because you have a plethora of other resources, friends, family, I mean, I mentioned family, but friends, the resources in college or whatever institution you're in or wherever to kind of help guide you too. So those are good. Yeah, absolutely. For sure, for sure, yeah. I mean, it's good to have good connections with family, for sure. I would never discourage anyone. Actually, I try to help people mend those relationships because they're so important and profound. But yeah, it doesn't prevent you from seeking other connections, for sure. We're social creatures. We are meant to find connection. As you can see, during the pandemic, people really struggled, and that was the main reason. Quite often, if we don't have healthy connections, then we seek it out through addictions, which I referred to earlier. Can you talk us through about what it looks like for somebody that hits rock bottom? Like, oh, man, everything is just super crappy, and I don't know where to go from there. Like, how do you know when you've hit that level of low, and what should your initial steps maybe to do moving forward from there? Yeah, I mean, that is fairly subjective, right? So, I mean, for someone, depending on their experiences in life or how resilient they are, that can vary, right? For someone, their car breaking down could be the worst thing that's ever happened to them. Meanwhile, someone else who's had other forms of adversity, that's just the usual day, right? So, it's fairly subjective. So, I don't want to undermine anyone's experience. I try not to at all, because trauma also is... Everyone's definition of trauma is different because of life experiences. So, in the event that you feel like you've absolutely hit your rock bottom, whatever that may be, again, it's trying to build on everything I've talked about so far. It's having healthy social connections, the ones that you can trust and rely on. So, someone that you can count on to perhaps be there for you. It's seeking help out, whether that could be therapy or going to family or friends, and just being honest about how you're feeling and honest about the fact that you're really struggling and you need that help. Other forms of things are trying to understand how much of it is your responsibility. Sometimes that can be tough, especially if you're really struggling. The last thing you want to do is tell yourself you're somewhat responsible for this, right? One of the things that I think the biggest piece of empowerment and liberation comes from, if you are struggling, is recognizing that most of it is in your control. How you respond to it is absolutely in your control. Now, you obviously can't control a lot of the circumstances around you or how other people are responding, but how you receive that or how you respond to that is still in your control. So, there's a lot of freedom and empowerment that you can gain from having that mindset. And it's just simplifying things. Quite often what we do is we try to focus on too far ahead, and that's where we get experience anxiety because we're focusing on all these things we have to get done or all these things that need to happen for the shift to course correct, but that's not the case, right? We need to focus on one day at a time, and that can help us minimize that anxiety, but also get those dopamine kicks by focusing on one thing at a time, achieving one thing at a time, and just simplifying it. And it just makes things a little bit easier in that sense. We're able to be more present rather than distracted by some future event that may or may not happen. So, really simplifying it, one of the things that really works is if you mix, again, if you just focus on the simplicity of one thing at a time, even if you make one small incremental change a day, over the course of 100 days, it could be something more profound, right? So, if you get caught up on achieving something on 100 days and you never start, well, now what? The 100 days have passed and you really didn't do anything, whereas if you just focused on making that one small thing, if it's even setting your bed or doing the dishes, you continue to do that and build on it, after the course of 100 days, now you're probably way more productive than you were when you started. So, there's a lot of power in the simplicity that we lose sight of, especially when we're struggling, because we're so focused on where we are currently. And it's recognizing that over time we can make those small changes. So, I don't know if that really answers your question, but it's a tough one because everyone has their own struggles, which are very subjective, and everyone responds to adversity differently. But having, like I said, a solid core, strong connections, being able to openly ask for help and being honest about it, and then just taking some of your own power back can do wonders in those moments, because we have a lot of power, we have a lot of control in how we respond and how we show up. I'll just use a personal example. When I was going through my divorce, things weren't going great. There was a lot of things that were going wrong, but I knew I had this belief in myself that, hey, I've been able to get myself to a certain point in life and do really well. I can get through this as well. And it was that belief that got me through. Even though there were days where I doubted myself, but at the core of it, deep down inside, I knew that I was capable of getting through the situation. And making the most of it. No, I think you answered that perfectly. I mean, what I tell my students whenever they started going off the deep end, or they're just not falling along with whatever plan they've made, is go back to your routines, go back to your foundation, kind of what you mentioned before. If you go back to that, then it helps align with your goals and what you want to achieve eventually. So, I think you've hit it. Yeah, and that's a good point, because that's one of the things I've really stuck to is, even now, after going through all of this, obviously, I mean, this is life, right? Things happen to us or for us. It depends on how you look at it. I like to look at things happen for us. But even in those situations, I don't compromise my routine or my foundational skills that I've built. My morning routine, waking up early, doing everything I do, I don't let go of that because it's easy. That's the first thing that I can let go of because I'm not feeling great. But guess what? By letting go of those things, everything slowly starts to fall apart. So, yeah, that's a great point. Speaking to the routine, your foundation is huge, but you need to have that. You need to build that first so you can anchor yourself. Right, right. And then speaking of your little dopamine kicks before, what are some things that help you decompress and little joys that you find outside of everything that you're building here? Yeah, I mean, for me, on a daily basis, the things I don't compromise on is I wake up early in the morning a couple hours before I get to work. So it's doing my morning routine, whether it's a cold shower, breathing exercises, journaling, reading, all those things, exercising every day. So after work, I will spend an hour, hour and a half to exercise. Those are things that I've built in daily practice. Yoga, cold baths, all of that is important. Those are things that I don't compromise. And then it's making sure I have scheduled time within the month to get out in nature and just disconnect from everything. And then try to disconnect too. Like, I don't try to look at my phone for the first two hours that I'm doing my morning routine. Submits and reminders on my phone when I'm using too much social media. So it's things like that because we do get trapped easily and can fall victim to the algorithms that are there. So just being mindful of those things and taking enough time to disconnect and be outside, getting enough sun, getting in nature, all of that. Yeah, and if you guys haven't been to Banff, Canada, or Calgary, I recommend it. That's where I met my friend just last year in Canada. We met at a pub, right? Yeah. So much fun. I'm from Erie, Pennsylvania, so super flat, as flat as it can be. And I grew up in a family where we just center our joys around sports. We didn't really go out hiking. We thought the peninsula was like the beach. And I grew up thinking that sand was just naturally brown and full of rocks, right? And then finally traveling around and seeing what, oh, wow, this is what a mountain really is, the Canadian Rockies. That is just something else. And it's a joy that as I got older, I don't know, just enjoyed and learned and pursued any moment that I can, any free time that I can to go out there and see the world. The vulnerability that it takes to, I guess, accept that you need and seek help, that's a hard thing to do. And then it's even more painful to go into digging deep to figure out why you have the patterns that you have and how they develop. And I think a little bit about why it's so scary is not only digging deep into that, but then once you do and then you start thinking about things that you want to work on and work towards, that can really induce some anxiety because it's going to be a process that's going to take a long time and it's something that you have to continue to keep working on. Habits are formed and patterns are formed over time, so unbreaking and doing that is going to take time too. And I think that's one of the most discouraging parts of really putting a lot of focus into mental health. So I guess the question then, since you guys have been talking a little bit about self-care, it's a very broad term. So what that means, but things that people can do to, I guess, not get too discouraged in the process of really focusing and working on their mental health. Yeah, well, I mean, one of the things, as you've captured there, it is a lot of work and rework. And what I'd like to at least remind people, and it's something I've learned myself over time, is, yeah, you feel like you've healed something, then something new comes and triggers you, and you're like, oh my God, I have to heal this now. And that's part of the process, right? It's part of growth. And I would like to say life would be pretty boring if you healed everything and then you're just this healed person. It'd kind of be boring in my mind. I just like the challenge of always working on something and trying to improve something. That's what keeps me going. So your question was really around what can people do to minimize that discouragement? Yeah, like those moments where it is, right, okay, well, I think I've really figured this part out, and I know what I can do to help this, but, like, oh, shit, here's something else now that popped up, because that is something that I've noticed, or, like, there's something that's a setback or something that feels like a stall. And just, like, not getting discouraged by the fact that, like, progress is not going to be linear. Right, but that in itself is progress, right? The fact that you've uncovered something new is progress, because that means whatever other things you were dealing with, perhaps you've been able to move past that. That's why now you're uncovering new things, right? So the other thing is I think a lot of people get caught up on the... I mean, we're all on a journey, our own individual journeys, and a lot of us get focused on the destination, and we lose sight of the present moment, as I mentioned earlier. And you kind of lose sight of the beauty that you're experiencing right now on your journey. And sometimes what I've experienced is the path that you thought would take you to that destination is never going to be the path you're going to take. And you almost have to accept that. And I think just being more present can be helpful. I know that sounds very cliche, but it's true, right? It's focusing, again, on what can you do today to make the most of what you have to offer, right? How can you be the best version of yourself today, and then tomorrow will take care of itself? So it's having that type of mindset. And the other thing I can offer people, this is honestly coming from personal experience, is the destination that we end up reaching is often a lot better than we imagined when we started this mini-journey. And that, whether it's consolation or not, that's what keeps me going, because now I've realized that my perspective is limited, I don't really have all the answers, so how can I just enjoy this journey? As much as it sucks, sometimes we all have our seasons, and maybe the season is really, really crappy, but how can I ride this out knowing that I'll come out better, obviously, on the other side, and whatever I'm going to reach is going to be a lot better than I can see right now. So that's, at least that's what I do, and it seems to work now. Again, it's a work in progress. There's a lot of challenges along the way. Sometimes I get impatient, sometimes I'm ungrateful, but it's taking those steps back and reminding myself that, okay, I had a crappy day, how can I figure this out and have a better day tomorrow? Can I pivot the conversation? Can we ask personal questions? Sure, sure. Are you dating right now? I kind of started, yeah. Okay, okay. Can you talk to us about that whole scene now, especially after, I mean, it's been years since your divorce, but maybe what that has looked like, especially now with a son, too, having that in the back of your mind as you're seeking a new partner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, initially it was kind of, after coming out of the divorce, I jumped into another relationship thinking that, okay, this is what I needed, and obviously I hadn't taken the time to fully heal myself, and people may even wonder what does that even mean, right? Like, what does healing yourself mean? So when I came out of this other relationship, I realized that, okay, well, this is two in a row now, and I was part of both, so common denominator, as I mentioned earlier. So that was a tough situation to look at myself in the mirror and be like, okay, what are you doing that's causing this, and how can you make a change? And I almost kind of secluded myself and went into a form of solitude where I would spend a lot more time with myself and learning about myself and reading and doing a lot of work, healing, journaling, going for therapy, and almost rewired a lot of my thought processes and started looking at things differently. And I really needed that solitude because I was often outsourcing my need for connection externally, whether it was going out, being in social situations, and not doing the hard work of figuring it out on my own. So fast forward now after all of this, I feel like now I'm ready from more of a mature perspective and a realistic perspective as well, and having the ability to communicate my needs and having the confidence to set boundaries and walking away from situations that do not serve me. Having all of that, I feel like I can show up as a fully grounded, mature adult man and start a relationship. Having a child, what does that mean? Well, it's being honest up front with any potential person that my son is a huge priority, a huge part of my life, and just being honest about it, right, and what it means. And for some people, it's okay. For others, it's perhaps not. But that's on them, right, and I can't control that. But what I can control is being honest about what my life situation means to me and setting those boundaries up front. Whereas before, I would struggle with that. And what I try to tell people is you need to have those difficult conversations up front because those are the times where you have to have it because otherwise you get into this honeymoon phase and then it gets tougher and tougher to have those difficult conversations because you're worried about rocking the boat or perhaps even pushing the other person away or just ending the relationship because of how it might be received. But just be honest about your boundaries and all of that, right, up front. And what's the worst thing that can happen? They can say no. Great, you have that answer now rather than six months or a year later. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like it may be scary and vulnerable initially being that open and honest and saying, hey, here's what I'm about. I have a child. I have X, Y, Z. But at least you're being open and honest. You don't have to put on a mask in front of anybody because, I mean, as you've talked previously, having a mask before, and any one of us can relate to trying to put up this front initially, it's exhausting to keep up and act rather than just, hey, this is me holistically. Take it or leave it. Now I don't have to think twice about what I can say or do because this is me. And if you accept me, that's great. We're going to be great. If not, then you got your answer initially right away and we don't have to continue to entertain something that's not meant to be in the first place. Right, but I think you also have to get comfortable with your own truth before you can offer it to someone else. So if there are certain things about you that you don't like, then you're going to hide those from the other person. How can you accept those of yourself, right? So if there are certain things that I don't like about myself, I'm just going to hide them and wear that mask and then I'm going to keep getting triggered or project my own insecurities onto the other person. So it's how can you identify your insecurities and then be able to speak to them as well, right? So if there are certain things that, like if I have certain attachment styles, I need to be honest with my potential partner that, when my partner goes out and I don't hear from her, for example, that gets me anxious. So how can we work together to deal with that, right? So that's just an example of knowing yourself and being able to share that with your partner. And if they've done similar work or they're equally comfortable, then they'll tell you the same thing. And then you can work together to build a secure attachment and relationship. So that is something that we had talked early on, is the importance of getting to know yourself really before you can establish a relationship. I guess all three of us have had long-term relationships, but we're not with that person anymore. But the relationship is part of how I figured out that I have some unresolved trauma and things that I needed to work through. So I guess what I'm wondering is how your approach to dating and the dynamics are different now for you than they were before you really started focusing on your mental health. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm not in a relationship officially yet, so it'll be interesting to see when I get tested. But I think it's recognizing that what happens quite often and I'm using myself as an example too, is we often lose our own identity when we're in a relationship, which is catastrophic. So we either will go to work or we'll go to school and then we'll be with our partner. And a lot of the times, if we're not spending that time with our partner, there's a sense of guilt for whatever reason. And a lot of people struggle to set time for themselves. And that could look like whatever, right? And I don't necessarily classify exercise as time for yourself because you're still somewhat distracted, right? You're not really taking intentional time to sit down and really reflect. So that's the biggest piece I would advise anyone, and that's something I've realized through my own experience, how much that time for myself is valuable and it could be two hours a day or maybe an hour a day. And as much as, you know, if you're having that agreement or conversation with your partner, it's like, oh, you're going to take an hour a day to yourself, it's going to pay dividends down the line, right? So it's being deliberate and intentional about that and communicating that as well and why you feel it's important. So that's the biggest piece I've realized, that if I'm not proactively doing it, then it's more reactive down the line. And that could look like seeking therapy, getting into arguments, whatever comes out of that. But if you're taking that time yourself and spending it with yourself, I did a solo episode on my podcast a couple years ago where I talked about building a relationship with yourself. What does that look like? You know, so that's important. You have to have that relationship with yourself. And I don't think a lot of people put enough emphasis on it. So that's been my biggest learning over the last few years is figuring out what that looks like. Yeah, absolutely. And scheduling it in, right? So both people know it's happening when it's happening. Maybe it's one day a week where you spend an evening to yourself. It could be whatever it looks like. You need to figure out what you need, how much time you need, what does that time look like for you. Doesn't mean you sit and watch Netflix. Again, that's not going to create a lot of value. So that's my biggest learning, yeah. Yeah, or even just scheduling time to do yoga, breathing, meditating, to be mindful and just like a nice check-in with yourself on, hey, I have, as we mentioned at the beginning of this episode, I have pain in my chest, in my back. Okay, that's signaling to me that I have stress or something. Something's going on in my life that I'm not addressing. So what is that? And for me anyway, whenever I am stressed, I try to write down the things that are causing that anxiety so that way I can take a look at it because now it's visual. Okay, I wrote it down, visual. Now let's figure out a plan to attack it. And a lot of those things I can do quickly and handle them like that. And others, it will take time. It takes time to process that. But at least if you, I mean for me anyway, I'm speaking for myself, if I can identify all those things that are causing me stress or things that I am anxious about, well, at least I can develop a plan to try to ease all of that. Or it could just be good and just, hey, life is great. Life is great. I'm going to write down all the great things that are happening. Cool. Let's keep going. Whatever it looks like. And the other thing I tell people that I work with is to also schedule weekly meetings with your significant other. It could be an hour long, but you kind of schedule it in same day, same time so you both know what's happening. But it's really talking through, especially if you can put it together, what are your priorities, what's coming up, how can you both support each other at home. If you've got something going on at work, that's going to take up a lot of your mental bandwidth or even your time. Just being open and clear about that and perhaps asking your partner for support that, hey, I may not be able to do these things at home or I may not be present. How can you support me? Just don't take it, you know, I hope you don't take it personally or whatever it is. But having those conversations up front so then both people are aligned and showing each other and supporting each other, but also knowing what's going on in each other's life, right? Quite often, again, if we don't do those check-ins, we'll show up home stressed and that's going to often spill over to your partner. So having those open and upfront conversations is crucial as well. And I think that's just so beautiful of what you stated, having meetings with your partner. Our previous episode with Brandy's friend Dom, we talked about what he does with his partner. And it's almost every night, I would say, right? They go on for an hour walk and they just, you know, express just that. How has their day been at work? What do they need to get off their chest? Or they talk about themselves. But, yeah, it doesn't need to be, hey, here's all my Outlook calendar. Let's have our meeting, right? Like it doesn't need to be that. But just like something as natural as that. Like, hey, let's just take an evening walk and talk about us or talk about life in general. For sure. Yeah, I know a lot of partners struggle to carve that time out. So that's why if you schedule it in, I know it sounds like it's business, but it really, honestly, it pays off. I mean, feedback I hear from my clients specifically is evidence enough. But, yeah, if you've got it, both people have a busy schedule or you're dealing with kids or you're running around, as long as you know you've got that time set aside on a specific day, you both know. Those are great opportunities as well. Like say if your partner says something to you to set you off, maybe that's the time you save it for that meeting to express that, that, hey, when you said that, this is how I felt. Rather than maybe losing it on them in the moment and taking away from whatever you're doing, maybe use those meetings as an opportunity to express some of those things and work through them because you're both present and you know that's the objective of that meeting. Don't add fuel to the fire when you're not even thinking clearly. Right, take some time to decompress and then get back from there. Yeah, all great points. That's something I really haven't thought about, but it's kind of how I think about going, like, my weekly therapy sessions. This is an hour I'm devoting to talking about me, my feelings, what I want to work on, how I'm feeling, what I'm going through, what's coming up for me. And that's just doing it with your partner, scheduling it. This is an hour a week that I'm devoting to talking to you and about us because this is important enough to me that I'm going to take time to do it. And I think that just, like, shows a lot about the maturity of a relationship, people doing that, like setting aside time, just, like, this is for us to communicate. And I think probably you can learn to communicate better and more effectively by doing that. Yeah, and one of the things, to your point, it is an opportunity to communicate. It's not like a complaint hotline that you're filing all your grievances. It's just an opportunity to communicate, and you don't show up with a laundry list of pen items that the other person's done to piss you off. Right. Because that's not going to be supportive either. Yeah, you did this thing, I really appreciated this. You said this thing this way, which I know that you didn't really mean it like that, but here's how I took it. Can we be mindful of the words that we use so I'm not getting offended by something you're not saying to be offensive? So I guess my last big question is one of the things that you're really promoting is people expressing their vulnerabilities. What do you think are the best ways to kind of approach that? And then maybe some of the gender dynamics there. Do you think it is more difficult for men to be vulnerable just with some of socialization? People say safe space, but how would you suggest kind of helping create that environment for people that, not just yourselves, but others that you see that might be in need? Yeah, because I feel like women just naturally, we talk about our emotions and what we're going through, and I've listened to this on other podcasts. We don't typically picture a group of guys sitting there talking about their feelings. Yeah, well it happens more than you would think now. Yeah, which is great, it should. Yeah, I think for vulnerability, one of the things that not everyone deserves to experience, you being vulnerable. So you have to be very selective. There are certain people that I wouldn't open up to because they haven't earned it or I don't trust them with it, so that's okay too. So you have to pick and choose. But with the safe environment, it's really, for me, being able to start a men's group, that was the biggest thing. The guys that came there were coming there because they needed something. Now, they weren't vulnerable from the get-go. They needed that level of comfort and perhaps feeling that level of safety. You can kind of say it's going to be safe, but you almost have to feel it too, right, before you can feel safe to be vulnerable yourself. So with that, now, one of the things I hear from my friends is they don't have men's group locally or this and that that they can go to. So for men who are looking for that space, create one yourself, right? There's nothing preventing you. Like my friend and I, we started our own and people started coming. So if you build it, people will come. And you can cultivate a nice community of men that are supportive and you can have these conversations. And that's exactly what I've experienced and that's what I've seen with these. I probably at least have come across, if not a hundred, thousands of men's groups that are out there. So they obviously all started from scratch. So if you can't find one, start one yourself. But there's so many out there, especially there's tons and tons that are available online. So if you're looking for a space like that, just look around and you should be able to find one. These groups are full of amazing men who are doing the work and very similar to what I mentioned earlier, once you've kind of gone through certain situations in life, you realize that there's no value in judging other people's experiences. So there's tons of men like that out there that people can find and have those conversations. But I think as we talked about earlier with this whole shift that we're seeing, it's getting easier and easier for men to open up. We still have a long ways to go for sure, but a lot of these platforms and groups are definitely helping and pushing things in the right direction. So I hope I answered your question about vulnerability and finding that safety, but you need to really cultivate that safety. If you don't have a group of friends, that you can open up to, then it's finding those secure attachment bases that I talked about earlier. And often it requires creating a new group of friends, which is not always easy either. Yeah, I was just really interested because I've been a part of several women's empowerment groups and it's really nice sometimes to have a space where people understand kind of what you're going through, even in the times that you don't really have the words to explain it. And I think that's part of how I've learned to become a more effective communicator. But also I really commend you for starting groups and really taking this on. It's important to me and I think obviously it very much is to you to start to really be part of this change so that we don't just keep passing down trauma through the generations. And I really hope that we can be the generation that's really spearheading this. Yeah, for sure. For the kids, I want the kids to have the resources that I needed and didn't have. Yeah, and that starts with healing yourself and changing yourself. So as a father, I can preach all I want to my son, but if I'm not modeling it for him, guess what? He's going to follow my actions, not my words. So if I can take the time to heal myself and be a better father, a better human, a better individual, then he's going to see that and follow suit. Hey, my dad does these things and it's evident through his actions, so that's it, right? So that's the biggest piece. If we want a better future for the generation to come, we need to focus on ourselves and heal rather than focusing on them. Absolutely. Yeah, one of the things I try to remind myself a lot is don't ask things of people that you're not also willing to do. So sometimes I really have to sit down and get real with myself and be like it's not fair for me to expect this from someone if I'm not willing to sit down and really work on this so I can also give that. For sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think we're great on time. A lot of content. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you, where they can follow you, where they can listen to you? Because I'm sure just after listening to our short little episode, they're going to want to dive into more on your knowledge, your depth, your breadth, all of the above. Yeah, thank you for that. So I'm primarily active on Instagram, even though I use some of the other social media platforms. But Instagram, my handle is at UnoyaZen. So that's spelled E-U-N-O-I-A-Z-E-N. It's a bit of a mouthful. And then my podcast is obviously one of the best ways to hear some of the stuff I share on most of the episodes I have guests. And that podcast is called Easy Conversations. So E-Z for easy and then conversations. And that's available on all platforms. All right, sounds great. Well, thank you so much again for taking the time to talk to us, to share your journey and to share your knowledge again with us. We appreciate it. Yeah, thank you for having me on. That was great and great questions. And thank you for all that you're doing to try to help make this a safer place for everybody. Yeah, I just like to think that I'm a vessel and I'm just playing my part like everyone else. So thank you, though. I appreciate that. We appreciate it. Well, thank you. All right, guys. That was our latest episode of Branded and Tailored. Tune in next week for our next upcoming episode. Bye. Bye. ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪