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riverside_sandrine_- sport _ may 5, 2024 001_sòrò_sókè podcast
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The podcast episode discusses the business of emerging sports in Africa and its impact on the continent. The guest, Sandrine, talks about her media platform, Playbook, which aims to increase investment and capital flow in the sports industry in emerging markets like Africa. The concept of emerging markets is explained as economies that have yet to develop fundamental functions like infrastructure and technology. Sandrine emphasizes the need for Africans to own their own industry and increase representation in ownership positions in sports leagues. She believes that the next greatest business in sports will come from emerging markets like Africa, due to the talent pool and growing population on the continent. The potential for high returns and opportunities in emerging markets is highlighted. The discussion also touches on upcoming sporting events, including the Basketball Africa League. Hello and welcome back to Sorsake. This is a podcast where we aim to learn and demystify life in Africa and African life. Thank you so much for being here again for another episode. Before we start a quick reminder, please remember to leave a like, leave a review, share this episode with your community. It really helps to promote this podcast and to get better and better guests on. In today's episode, we're delving into the business of emerging sports and its impact on the African countries with our amazing guest Sandrine, the CEO and founder of The Playbook. Hi everyone. Thank you so much for having me. I am the founder and the CEO of Playbook, which is a media platform that we'll be launching that has a focus on the business of sports in emerging markets, namely Africa and the Middle East. But certainly the goal and the dream is for it to expand beyond these markets, include Southeast Asia, include Latin America. But really, ultimately, the goal is to be able to aggregate the stories and tell new stories about what's happening in the business of sports, really with the intention of increasing capital flow and investment in these industries so that we can create long term sustainability for the owners of those markets, for the people in the markets, whether that be athletes or that the African business leaders, African governments. But it's really important that we all own our own industry in our own markets. Perfect. Great introduction. Already captivating. So I think my first question for anyone that's listening and doesn't know, what is emerging market? Like, what does that mean? Emerging? Yes. And so emerging markets is interesting. Generally, the concept of an emerging market is an economy that has yet to develop some fundamental functions to it. And so, for example, that may be infrastructure, that may be within technology. And so when people talk about emerging markets, namely, they don't include the countries that you think about when you think about the West in general. So the United States and things like Canada and Europe. It really includes other regions, other regions where perhaps infrastructure has not been fully or properly developed, whether that be physical or virtual infrastructure, even whether that mean access to Internet. But in various and differing industries, it can mean different things as well. So you can have an emerging market or an emerging industry, for example, in one region and not have an emerging industry in another. So, for example, in Africa, when I'm talking specifically about sports, we have an emerging economy, the emerging industry of sports. And it's because we don't yet have, again, the infrastructure, the foundation of that industry for it to be self-sustainable and to run on its own. That can take the form of a number of different things, whether that be actual stadiums and courts and fields that we need in order to encourage not only just the play, but also the commercialization of the industry and of sports in general. But, yeah, you have emerging markets all across the world, unfortunately, at this time where we don't yet have sustainability within the sports industry. So that's really where I live and what I'm so excited to talk about. Okay, so I feel like now we've got like a leveled playing field and we kind of understand that some of the terms that you might use. So what is the dream? Yeah, ultimately, the dream really is in order to encourage, at least when I'm first thinking about Africa, and I'll share, I'm Cameroonian, I played basketball, you know, the vast majority of my life. And also, I also was really fortunate to play for the Cameroon national team as well. And some of the things that I observed there was that there simply was not enough opportunity for those who had the talent, whether or not that be on the athlete side or even on the business side. And so it's really, really important, you know, in order for Africans coming from the continent that I know so well, that we own our own industry in Africa. It's very easy for investment opportunities to be taken over or to be really optimized by people who are not us. So even when you take a look at the National Football League, you know, which is American football in the United States, when you look at, you know, even global soccer, when you look at the Premier League, when you look at the NBA, even, the vast majority of these leagues are of African descent, they are black or African descent. But then when you look in contrast at the ownership groups, unfortunately, it's few and far between to be able to even find a black or African owner. And when you do, they do not exist at the majority ownership level. And so in the NBA, in the Premier League, in the NFL, you have zero owners, black or African owners who represent majority ownership. And so that, unfortunately, is something that has to change. And I think it should change, namely on the African continent, because this is where the world's greatest athletic talent comes from. And it's also where the world's greatest athletic talent will come from in perpetuity, since we're the only continent that is getting younger. And so from an economic perspective, it's really important for us to understand as Africans, but also for the rest of the world to understand that, that there's a true economic opportunity here for us to own the industry, because ultimately, it's a multibillion dollar industry, that where we are also as Africans and as black people objectively, you know, and disproportionately provide value to. And so it's really, it's, that's the dream is to create as many ownership opportunities as possible for Africans and black people in the sports industry. Yeah, no, I totally agree, especially when you mentioned, when you look at, for example, football team, and you know, when the World Cup was going on, if you, for example, look at the French team, you would see a lot of people from African descent within the team. So it's really interesting now that you mentioned that actually, when you look at ownership, it's not really the same representation. So that's really interesting. And also, even in athletics, a lot of the runners and sprinters, long distance runners, a lot of them are from African descent. So that's really, really good point. And yeah, No, go ahead. I was just saying, and there's early, there's early movers, which are really exciting, whether or not that be on the government side, or private sector individuals as well, who are, who are taking advantage of these opportunities. You know, there's, there's just a number of people. And so we're starting to see things change and move a little bit. But we just want to encourage, I want to accelerate the development of the industry as much as possible. So when I was doing a little Googling prior to this session, on your LinkedIn and stuff, I saw that you had this little sentence and it says, the next greatest business is in sport will come from the emerging markets. So can you explain a bit and what you mean by that kind of like the next greatest business? Yes, yes. There are ultimately, any industry in the world really comes down to who the workers are, who the people are that are creating the immediate value to because it is without them, nothing else functions. And so when you think about it for the sports industry in particular, those people are the athletes. And we have a unique advantage in comparison to the rest of the world on the African continent to be able to understand deeply that we have that repository of talent. And so we have the opportunity to be able to develop the industry, whether or not that be through, you know, through actually establishing and developing leagues that are sustainable and teams across the African continent that can truly draw the attention simply because of the talent that exists here. And secondarily to that, we also have a rising population. I think by 2050, one in four people will be African. And so ultimately, it's really important because the sports industry functions based off of eyeballs. It functions based off of attention. And so when you're thinking about media rights deals and the reason why you've seen such a massive increase in the value of teams specifically, it's not by accident. It's specifically because of the value of media rights deal, the value of the attention of the people that are watching these games. And because you simply just have such a sheer number of just attention of eyeballs that exist on the African continent that will continue to grow as all of our economies grow. And as we also grow in our purchasing power, we are there's the greatest opportunity. The greatest opportunity for multiples will ultimately come from the African continent and will also come from other emerging markets as well, because at the end of the day, you know, the West also from a numbers perspective doesn't compare in terms of the numbers that exist in in emerging markets. And so it's really it's it really is just a numbers thing. It's a numbers thing. The opportunities are are more significant. And, you know, the multiples opportunity for return are more significant for those who can understand and vet, you know, that the opportunity that makes sense, but also have the patience to be able to give it time to grow. That was a really, really good point, because as soon as I saw that sentence, I was like, this is really interesting, because not a lot of people would think greatest businesses and put like emerging markets next to it. But it's a really good point that you say. OK, so I wanted to talk about obviously sporting events, since this is about sport. So there's quite a few upcoming sporting events and a few that have passed. One I'm quite excited about is actually NBA sports. So the NBA technically is already in on the African continent through its league called the Basketball Africa League. And so there's but surely and hopefully in the works will be, you know, having a regular in-season game being hosted on the African continent. I'm sure that's a conversation that is being held, you know, amongst the Mark Tatum's and Adam Silver's of the world. And so I'm not sure exactly when that will happen, but it's definitely sooner than later. It's definitely sooner than later. OK. I think I was thinking of the Super Bowl. Or is that one coming to Africa? Yeah. So the Super Bowl, not yet, but the NFL has. The NFL has just came. And to your point about the Super Bowl, part of the reason why, you know, we can say that so with confirmation is because of the Super Bowl spot, you know, that I'm not sure if you saw this or so many people in the diaspora saw this. I think particularly people who are from Ghana were able just to reap so much pride from that from that commercial. It was incredible to be able to see, you know, this spot that they did in support of NFL Africa and all the initiatives that they're doing there, all of the recruiting and talent development that that so many people have contributed to over the past only, I believe, NFL Africa launched in 2021. So it's very, very recent. But to your point, exact same thing. I am certain that in some viewpoint, you know, in some conversations and in the boardroom of the NFL, a conversation is being had about what does it look like to host an NFL game on the African continent, an in-season game? I think it would be incredible. I think it would be incredible. And slowly you're seeing the interest really being developed. So I'm excited. I'm really excited for what the NFL will also bring. A Super Bowl, that would just be amazing. I think we're further off from that, but a Super Bowl would be crazy. So why do you think events like this haven't happened in Africa yet? Oh, gosh, a number of things. A number of things. It could be anything from infrastructural capacity. So a big issue and really the foundational issue that I always like to talk about when it comes to Africa specifically is that we just don't have the infrastructure to be able to compete at the same levels as different markets. And so coming from an arena or a stadium, excuse me, like, let's say, SoFi Stadium, which was built for, I believe, five billion dollars and is certainly the nicest stadium I've ever seen in my life. So to have an organization or a Super Bowl that was played there, which was this in 2022, I believe, there's no comparable stadium to be able to play in on the African continent. There just isn't. And so it has been even, you know, to your point, even with the NBA, the Basketball Africa League, when it was initially announced, the government of Rwanda took a really strong stance and decided to build the Kigali Arena in support of what the NBA was developing. And they built an arena, a world-class arena, within the span of six months in order to host not only the Basketball Africa League, of course, but a number of events. And because they did that, they now have a really successful asset that they can leverage and that they're using for the development of their nation for not only its revenue driving, but it's also really, really impactful from a nation branding perspective. They're now branding themselves as the, you know, the center of sports for the continent. And that's really meaningful. But the reason why they can do that is because they've invested in the actual infrastructure. Without the infrastructure, in some ways, you simply cannot compete. So I would say that that is the largest, you know, the largest component. And then the second piece, I would say, is in government support and investment, in addition to private support, private sector support and investment. And so the sports industry is an industry that really functions based off of money from the private sector, whether that be through sponsorship, whether that be through ticket sales, of course. That is the money that is really flowing through the industry. And without a private sector that is open to understanding the value of sports and economic value of sports, it's really hard to justify bringing a large-scale event when the economics of it simply doesn't make sense, when they can't raise enough sponsorship to offset the cost, you know, or to bring them the return that they're really looking for. So I think that has been traditionally some of the biggest reasons why large sporting events haven't happened as consistently. Certainly there's been things, there's been the World Cup, of course. Now the Olympics are, they're bringing the Youth Olympics to Dakar in the next year. But again, that's because Senegal has invested in sports infrastructure in a really meaningful way, so they can host it now. But there's a lot of changes, I think, that are happening now, and we're seeing the trend of investments really, or governments, excuse me, really understanding the opportunity behind sports infrastructure specifically. So I think that we'll start to see quite a change even in the next five to ten years. You've made quite a few really important and interesting points. Now some might say that, for example, countries like Senegal, they have invested in building infrastructure to hold stadiums, things like that. Some might say that actually that money shouldn't have been spent there. Maybe they could say that, you know, in Africa there are other things that might, that should have been prioritised, sporting infrastructure, and say that we actually need money for stable electricity, security, education, etc, etc. What is kind of like your response on that? You know, I would say that a lot of people have a really great point when it comes to that, a lot of great points. And I think part of the reason why so many people also feel that way is that, unfortunately, we have had several governments that have misappropriated the funds or misused those funds to attract large sporting events and built infrastructure, actually, that then is not really economically sustainable. And so what you'll see, what we see happen across the African continent, what we've seen in the past, is governments wanting to really lure, let's say, AFCON tournaments, or really lure, you know, the World Cup to come to the continent, and they will build out massive stadiums that then effectively really only get used once for that specific event. That is not something that is helpful. It is a misuse of funds. And that's why it's really important to understand what type of infrastructure is actually going to provide returns. And I think that people who have that perspective should be questioning, you know, these types of investments, because in my viewpoint, they are not, you know, they're not the optimal investment. They simply are not. There are other organizations across the continent who have understood that there's different ways to be able to spend money on sports infrastructure and other investments within sports where they do generate revenue. And, you know, one of them is, well, Zaria Group, really. Zaria Group is an organization that helps to build, specifically, they believe in the value of arenas. And the reason why they believe in the value of arenas versus a stadium is because, generally, arenas are much smaller. So it's a smaller capital investment up front. But also, you can make them multi-use. And so instead of having one massive stadium that you can use, perhaps for track and field and perhaps for football, instead you have an arena that you can use for volleyball, for basketball, for, you know, music concerts, for conferences as well. And then those entities end up becoming tremendously sustainable and tremendously successful. So ultimately, it's a matter of which specific types of assets that you look to invest in. And people should absolutely be questioning, you know, where they're prioritizing, where governments are really prioritizing these funds. But I think it's also really quite important to understand the value that sports bring from a nation branding perspective. You know, it's the only thing that a nation can really use to alter its perception and to leverage that in order to attract investment and tourism in a way that a lot of different industries cannot. And a lot of people will call this sports-washing. But specifically, what I believe sports-washing is a term that has been leveraged predominantly by the West against, you know, nations, particularly in the Middle East, but also in other areas, when in fact sports-washing has been used by members of the West from the very beginning. You know, the Olympics is your performance in the Olympics. There's tangible value that comes from that. You know, hosting the World Cup, for example, there's tangible value that comes from that, whether or not that be people seeing you in a more neutral light, you know, people understanding and being able through these broadcasts being able to see what your country has to offer and being more open to tourism, for example. And these are all things that I think every country should be able to take advantage of simply because that's how it's been leveraged and used in the past. There's something, it means something to win gold at the Olympics. There's economic value and perception value that comes along with it. And those things ultimately come back in the form of investment of dollars, you know. My next game is actually the African Games, which I don't know if I was living under a rock, but this year was the first time that I've learned or heard about the African Games. But it's been the 13th year or 13th games that they've done. And I just thought, wow, I've actually never heard of it. Like, how come I've never seen it before? Can you talk about a bit about the African Games, what it is? And maybe like if any of the listeners haven't heard of it as well, why they should get to know about it. Yes, absolutely. And I was really fortunate enough to play in the African Games in 2011, I think it was. I think it was 2011. Congratulations. Yeah, it was a beautiful experience. And what people don't realize is that the African Games is the Olympics of Africa. And so it's this incredible gathering of the world, of the continent's greatest aesthetic talent all in one place. And to your point, a lot of people have not heard about the African Games. The African Games need an entire PR, like push initiative, dollars behind it, because it really is such an incredible convening of athletic talent and coaching talent, of course, as well. And it can truly be a generator for a tremendous amount, at least in my viewpoint. I'm not super familiar, at least with their financials. But in my viewpoint, it can certainly be lucrative. And so I would certainly say for people in general that we, I believe that African people also, we do sports differently. We are such prideful people. We're also so much fun. I mean, we obviously love enjoyment, probably more than any other group of people on this planet. And so we have a way of participating in sport in a way that is just so exciting. And so it's another opportunity that we get every four years to be able to rally ourselves behind our countries, to be able to also bully and fight each other online when we're talking about Ghana versus Nigeria and Ivory Coast versus Nigeria, whoever it may be. It's always Nigeria. But it's just another, it's always, well, maybe Nigeria is also the problem. I don't know. But honestly, at the end of the day, I think that spirit, that pride that Nigerians even also hold for themselves, for their ability and their tenacity is, it adds to the environment. It adds to the eyeballs. And again, those conversations that were even happening on the sidelines of AfCon, of all of the conversations, Nigerians versus Ghanaians, then versus Ivory Coast, that was really incredible to see because the rest of the world was also starting to pay attention in a way where I don't think they've ever paid attention before. And it's because of that excitement, that energy that we have, that we're able to continue to elevate these assets. And a story just came out that the AfCon tournament this year made $80 million in profit. And that is in part due to these conversations and the culture of sports and watching these games and being an African fan that we can create, that we naturally create for ourselves. There's economic value in that. And so the AfCon Games is really another really incredible platform that can be leveraged in order to create that same energy in a number of ways. That's really interesting, yeah. But definitely Nigeria is the problem here, but we'll talk about that another day. Anyway, I think to round it up on this is such a, such an insightful conversation. And you can just tell that you're super interested and just know a lot about sports and Africa and just Middle East. I feel like I can just continue talking to you about this, but super insightful. Do you have any predictions about like sporting in Africa, like in the future? I do. I have a handful of, I have a handful of predictions. I believe that, I believe that, a couple of things. Sports team ownership is a trend that we'll continue to see inside and outside of the African continent. We're seeing more ultra high net worth individuals who are buying, buying, either buying teams outright or buying into teams with investment groups. I think, you know, from an alternative, alternate asset class perspective, team ownership is an asset class unlike any other. And it's really, really important that we participate in that, especially because we are also the athletes who are driving the value of these teams and driving the success of these teams. So I am really excited to see that trend continue to grow. I think we'll also continue to see, just like we're seeing already, the growth of sports related infrastructure across the continent. I think that we'll also see it in ways that are outside of arenas. I think one thing in particular that I'm really curious to see over the next, I would say probably three or four years, is the refurbishment or the entire development of a Formula One racing track. I think the conversation has been had about what would it look like to have an F1 race on the continent? And I think that it's a really worthwhile conversation. And there's several countries specifically who have dropped their name in the hat to say that they would be interested. And of course, the most famous driver, Lewis Hamilton himself, has said that he doesn't want to retire until there's a race on the continent. And so there's a lot of, I think, energies really pushing towards that. And I just think it would be really cool to see. And then the last thing that I will share is that, and it's really hard to get data and numbers around this industry because it's so nascent. But as someone coming from the talent side, coming from the playing side, but also having really great visibility into what things look like on the business side as well, I believe that there's a tremendous opportunity for women's sports in Africa, and specifically women's sports talent. I think it's very neglected. I think everyone looks at the, you know, Giannis, the Giannis's of the world, they look at the Kilian Bape's of the world, and they're like amazed by all of this talent, but they don't see that, or they don't value enough. For example, the Zambian superstar Barbara Banda, who, you know, has one of the most expensive, at least has one of the most expensive transfer fees in the WNSL this year. And it's because she's just absolutely incredible. And what she will tell you, what other greats will tell you, like Frances Ghanou, who's obviously incredible in combat sports as well as an athlete, but also now on the business side as well, is that while they are really incredible, and they understand their value and their talent, they're like, I can't promise you that there's not somebody on the street that would also be able to beat me and be way more talented than me. Like they're certain of the amount of talent that also follows them, that just exists, but isn't cultivated enough, or yet, isn't cultivated yet, I should say. And I think that because there's such obscurity specifically around women athlete and women talent, that's what I really want to see grow. And I'm really curious about, you know, the amount of talent that we'll see as we see more investment in the entire industry as a whole, but also more investment in just women's talent, and as much as possible. So it's gonna be a really interesting, I would say, even the next three years, I think will mean a lot for what happens in the industry for the next several decades. I'm looking forward to it. Will the playbook kind of like have all of this kind of, so people can like watch it and read about it on there? Yes, yes. So we definitely want to be, you know, the center of the industry in terms of aggregating stories about what's happening in the industry, but also creating original content as well. There's not enough people who are telling the stories of this incredible talent, whether that be on the athlete side, also on the coaching side, but you know, specifically on the business side as well. We want to have conversations as much as we possibly can. And then we also want to bring people together in real life. So programming and events is going to be a really important vertical for us as well. And that will take, you know, shape in conferences, namely. But then also just other kind of really creative, exciting events, because number one, we are Africans and we like to have fun. And I think that this is the funnest and coolest industry, or one of the coolest industries to work in. I also really love fashion. And so it's like, why not have some fun while we're learning about these business opportunities? Why not embed that into this experience? So I'm really excited just to be able to contribute as much as possible, not only obviously to the African continent, but also there's so much that we can learn from the Middle East and so many partnerships we can have. But also in Latin America, there's incredible things happening in that market, in Southeast Asia, et cetera. And so there needs to be a lot more cross-regional support and information sharing. So we're really looking to be the center of all of that. Oh, that sounds so exciting. Like, I'm excited already for the playbook to come out and everything be published. Okay. So I think this is the last question for me. So kind of like the aim for this podcast is we want to not just talk about Africa. We want to take out some actions that listeners or, you know, the listener can be in the UK, Western country, Africa, et cetera. What kind of actions do you have for them? Like what key points do you think that they should take away and try and apply? I would say, you know, support sporting events that happen on the African continent. I think far too many of us will go home, you know, for December and we are having fun and that's all great for sure. But why not go watch a basketball game while you're also home? Or why not go watch a football match, you know? And if you can't do that, also there's your eyeballs really amount to dollars for us. And so paying attention to your point, the African Games, like why not watch, you know, watch a track and field event at the African Games or when AFCON comes on, participate, watch, tweet about it. Those things, it really means a lot, you know, for these businesses, for CAF and for all of these other organizations to have our attention. And, you know, who else is going to watch us if we don't watch us? And so it's really important that we're paying attention to what's happening, that we're also supporting the Olympics this summer. Watch these broadcasts, you know, watch these broadcasts. It's going to be a really, really fun, I mean, every four years. I love the Olympics. The Olympics are always fun, you know, but we shouldn't just be watching, you know, the 100 meter race. And while incredible, absolutely, but also watch other events, you know, just consider, consider exploring and expanding beyond some of the more traditional opportunities. That in and of itself is tremendously valuable. And there's also a lot of events in the Olympics that aren't, that aren't publicized and not, not broadcasted. And so, you know, there's ways, there's certainly ways to express your interest in wanting to watch these and also not just in the Olympics, but also alternate events, whether that be even Winter Olympics. There's so much exciting stuff happening for Africans, even in the Winter Olympics right now, which is so, you wouldn't even think you would, at least for me, I never thought that would equate the Winter Olympics to the African continent, but it's, it's moving. And a lot of Nigerians specifically are really driving and spearheading that change, which is so exciting to see. So, yeah, just pay attention to us in these, in these spaces as much as we possibly can. So, so, so great. Okay, just last thing, do you have anything that you would like to say, just to round it out? I would like to say, certainly follow us on LinkedIn. We are Playbook, you know, Business of Emerging Sports Economies. And I also am pushing out the vast majority of my content via my personal LinkedIn. And so you can also follow me, Sandrine Zofu, N-Z-E-U-K-O-U on LinkedIn. We'll be launching our platform on Instagram here shortly as well. And that handle is weareplaybook.co, which is also our, our website. And so you can go on there and, you know, submit your, your name if you want to be notified of when we launch. We'll be launching very soon. So we're really excited about that. But yeah, we're excited. Please support us wherever you can. And yeah, that's really it. Just support sports. It's fun. Thank you. Support us. Support us. Thank you so, so much. That's a great conversation. Thank you so much for Sandrine for coming on here and just speaking the truth and just, you can just tell that she was so passionate about what she does. So yeah, super, super excited. I feel privileged to have a conversation with someone like her. So please do share, share the episode. Please do follow her on her socials that she mentioned. I will list them in the description below. Sorasuke is an independent production brought to you by Norse Truly. I've been saying now. Bye.
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