WRRAP 180923

The WRAP podcast discusses various topics related to rugby, including recent games, player signings, and injuries. They also mention the possibility of starting a women's game podcast and are looking for presenters. The hosts also talk about their personal drink choices for the week. Welcome to the WRAP podcast, the place to catch up on all the regional and national rugby in Wales. You can find us on all the usual social media platforms and message us through there if you want, or you can email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. So with all the boring stuff out of the way, let's talk rugby. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the WRAP podcast with me, Lee G, and joining me as per usual, I genuinely can't get rid of them, they keep coming back week and week. I've got Harley and Jamie, good evening gents, how are you? Good evening, well good thanks. So the other one isn't here, he's down in Sardis Road, House of Payne, see I quite like the band House of Payne, so when they started calling it House of Payne I got a little bit miffed, but so he's down there training with his girls tonight, he's going to hopefully join us later, hopefully, maybe not. So yeah, just us three gents, just us three to amuse ourselves for the evening. So Jamie, you can't do drink of the week this week, you're shitting out a drink of the week this week, can't you? Well I haven't been well for a few days, so I'm going into too much information, so tonight I want ice cold water, which is really boring, but really refreshing actually, so yes, no alcohol for me this week I'm afraid. It tastes better when you come back to it, trust me. Harley, what have you got mate? So I got given as a present this key lime pie gin, and frankly it's just a bit sweet and a bit bleh, so I thought I'd try and turn it into a lemon gimlet, which is a lemon curd and lemon juice and gin, just to try and get rid of some of the sweetness. Lemon curd, lemon juice and gin? Yes. What? That's not impressive. Very impressive. Really? I like lemon curd, I do like lemon curd. On toast? Yeah, lemon curd belongs on toast and your breakfast. Lemon curd belongs in like a lemon cheesecake, but you know, actually in a cocktail is not bad. If you say so then mate, if you say so. I mean you've got a lot sour things to appreciate that. We're at that stage of Drink of the Week where you put jam in a gin and everyone just goes yeah, yeah, that's perfectly normal. No, that's a breakfast martini, this is a lemon gimlet. Oh my God, well we know what Harley's bringing next week then, he's having a breakfast martini or whatever. If I'm going to be bothered to buy Contra. Oh for crying out loud. This is what lockdown did to me, it's a bartender thing. Let me see what, like George's magic medicine only with alcohol and various things from the fridge. I like the sound of it mate. You should try my Long Island iced tea sometime, that'll put you to sleep. Well Long Island iced tea is basically everything on the shelf in a pot and judged up in it, that's how you make a Long Island iced tea. And I put a bit of coke to make it look like you're not just drinking the alcohol. Which you are. Mine seems really tame now, mine seems quite normal. Mine's called, mine's a premium Belgian white fruit beer, it's not white, it's red. It's called Flouly. I've had that, it's lovely. Is it that one there, is it? Yeah, I've had that, it's a beautiful drop, I like that. It doesn't surprise me that you've had a strawberry beer before James. Yeah, it's really nice, it is. It was one of those things that was like, find a strange beer that I haven't had before. So I think that's it, I think I've done all of Tesco's weird beers now, unless they bring something in by next week, I'm going to have to go and start buying alcohol from somewhere else, which will just feel very strange. Apparently B&M is the place to go to buy your really weird alcohol, so I might stretch that this weekend. Home Bargains as well, B&M Home Bargains are very good for strange and different beers, I feel that way. Do pounds stretchers do alcohol? Oh Christ, I've been a pounds stretcher for years, this is so good. Oh there's one in Newport, I just remembered there's one in Newport City Centre. Maybe Poundland, maybe Poundland will do really bizarre alcohol. It'll be your German style beer with all the umlauts on the wrong letters. Anyway, let's do some rugby then, Jenson. I'm going to save you the pain of another Newsdesk introduction, so Newsdesk, over to you mate. Okay, so just right through these quickly then, so signing news, Cardiff have signed Welsh lay-off Alwe Robson from England's Championship side, Cornish Pirates. Dranca supporters will be aware, Robson of course, he made 24 appearances for the region before being released to play for Cornish Pirates, I think that's a great sign in for our wellness, at least a pick-up by Cardiff. And if we go west now to the Scarlets, so they played the Barbars on Saturday, they won 33-19, Welsh international team. Plum Tree scored his first try for the Scarlets on day bow, and we had former Scarlet favourite Rob Evans was one of two Barbarian try scorers. It was a very entertaining game by all accounts from what I read, no idea what the attendance was, as the Scarlets haven't included it on their website. So yeah, to those who went, I'm sure you all had a good time. And speaking of Rob Evans, according to Wales Online this evening, Rob Evans and Kirby Myhill are on the verge of signing for the newly formed American club Miami Sharks, which is pretty interesting. And just the last bit of news then, really good news, I think we all agree, Wales are going to take on Italy at the Principality Stadium for their final match on Super Saturday of the 2024 Women's Six Nations. So hopefully they'll get a big crowd in for that, but I think that's really good news. That's all I got for the news, if anyone wants to add any more to that. Well, I was just going to say, before we move on to the next bits, the Rugby World Cup bits, about the women's game, and relating to us as well. So I've pretty much finished setting up all of the new pods for Cardiff, Dragons and Ospreys. We're going to have a Welsh language pod as well. And then I had a thought, we really should have a women's game pod. But again, same as the Welsh language one, I'm not really qualified to do that. So we've got people that are going to do that. So if there is anybody out there that fancies a crack at the women's game pod, ideally female players, female presenters, that would be great to just add to the WRAP family. And like I say, with the others, I've got the Welsh language one sorted, so that'll be on its way shortly. The Cardiff one, we're recording that first one this week. The Ospreys one, we'd have recorded the first one of that last week, but the presenter couldn't make it. So I do need a second presenter for the Ospreys one. And as always, Jane, struggling with the Dragons. I'm always struggling with the Dragons. So if there's anybody that fancies a crack at the Dragons pod, by all means, get in touch, because we'd love to complete the family with some Dragons on that. So, yeah, I just thought I'd throw that, because I usually throw it in at the end and people start switching off by then. So I thought I'd throw that in now, because that's all ready to go. So talking of media coverage, Harley, take us through Rugby World Cup news, my friend. So first of all, I just want to make a, I'm just going to quickly run through the scores and then we're going to go through some talking points. So we kicked off on Thursday night with France-Uruguay. So France just about managed to win against Uruguay 27-12. Then Friday, it's a bit more convincing where New Zealand beat Namibia 71-3. And we'll come on to two talking points in that game in a second. Then Saturday, we had Samoa demolished Chile 43-10. Wales beating Portugal, which we'll go on to. So no spoilers on the score for this one. Ireland running rampant against Tonga 59-16. And then Sunday, we had South Africa beating Romania 76-0. And utterly pitiful display from Romania, I'm afraid. England scraped past Japan 34-12. And then probably game of the weekend, we have Australia 15, Fiji 22. So, because we like the update on who's been carded and whatnot, we've had, we have two red cards of the weekend. First one was to Ethan de Groot in the Namibia game. He's currently on a two-week ban, assuming he passes tackle school, which it seems to be impossible to fail. So he's out for the rest of the pool stages, but should be back to the quarterfinals, providing, of course, New Zealand get there. And then we have the winger, Pinto, for his very unnatural boot to Josh Adams in space. He's going up to discipline. From the Wales-Portugal game, we also had a citation for the Portuguese number eight. Yes, I've got to double check his name, because I've just had it in my head all day. Rafael Simoes. Apologies for the pronunciation. And Francisco, if you're listening, please correct me later. So the news for that is, apparently it was a second, after a high tackle in the second half, the news from the Portuguese campaign is that they're not entirely sure why he's been cited for this challenge. And I don't know if anyone saw it, but I mean, I didn't. I'm watching the game back on the live stream and initially then again. So I don't know what's happening with that, but both of those are going to be listened to on Tuesday. We have a couple of big pieces on the injury front. So Malcolm Marks is out of the World Cup and he has been replaced by a little-known hooker called Andre Pollard. So hopefully his line-out throw-in is up to scratch. Big news, having missed the Fiji game, Eddie Jones has confirmed that both Will Skelton and Daniela Tupo are going to miss the game versus Wales, which is almost a guaranteed thing if they're going to start. And I think that's a wrap-up of all the big. So there is one major injury. Unfortunately, I've forgotten the name of the Namibian flanker. He's had his surgery and apparently recovering well. It's the last I've heard of that, which brings me on to something that's really annoyed me. It really annoyed me Friday night. So as I alluded to, there was this freak accident and the Namibian flanker suffered what was described as a dislocation and break of his ankle. And one journalist on Wales Online thought it to go back, find it, screenshot it, and then post that as their main headline for Wales Online. And I just want to say, plenty of people pointed out how out of order it was. You can run a story about a player being injured without having to show the horrific injury and adding to that pain and anguish from his family. And I think I'm going to leave that there if either of you two want to go in. If not, Jamie, you want to talk about carrying on this theme of media? Well, no, hang on before we move off that, because I thought that was, well, we all did, everyone did. And I think that's the bad bit about it. You may put something up to start with, but you think, you know, it's one of those momentary decisions where you go, all right, I'll put this up there. Yeah, great. And then people start saying to you, hang on a second, that's out of order, that's wrong, that's, yeah. And it dawns on you really quickly to take it down. You know, you get that real quick feeling, you go, okay, oh crap, yeah, I can see what they're saying now, yeah, I'll take it down. That post stayed up for a long, long time. I don't even know if it's still been taken down yet. I think it is. I think it's still up. And I mean, what purpose, other than clickbaiting, yeah, and kind of trying to shock people into have a look at this sort of thing, do you know what I mean? It just, for an alleged Welsh national, we know they're not Welsh, I know there's Welsh reporters in there, and some of them are very good, but that's an English company that's, you know, everything gets tweeted out, all the social media and all that kind of stuff gets done from the centre. So to leave that out there, yeah, was just, it's not in the spirit of rugby, it's not in the spirit of, you know, we've all been on a pitch where somebody's had a really bad injury, and you know straight away, and you know in the crowd, and the crowd go quiet, and everybody's, you know, you saw the way the crowd reacted when he got taken off. Nobody even started the game until he was out of the stadium and gone, and everybody applauded right until he was, it wasn't just while he's in shot, it's until he was completely out of the stadium. So they got it, you know, and we've all been there in that situation where somebody's had a really bad injury, and everything stops, and you've got to kind of take yourself away from it, and all of this. I just, I can't understand why that wasn't taken, I can understand why it was put up, Peter the moment, oh my god, look at this here, bang, off you go, but for a national news agency to put that up, and then leave it up, beggars belief, I mean absolutely beggars belief. It's all about clicks, isn't it, and what's disappointing is the broadcasters made a conscious decision not to show that replay, and it was absolutely the right thing to do, and then you've got Wales Online throwing up that thumbnail of the foot going the other way, we just didn't need to see it, we did not need to see it, and it's such a shame because, you know, there are some really good writers for Wales Online, but when they just go into clickbait territory, that's when it's really disappointing for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well you saw the reaction from, you know, the referee, the touch judge, the players, the players that were around him, you know, they just went, oh holy shit, and walked away. I just, somebody needs to have a bit of humanity at Wales Online, and get their head out of social media. The best people on social media are the ones who don't spend their entire life on there, but they understand what life is outside sort of a thing, they're the best social media managers, and I'm not going to pretend that we're anywhere near that, I'm just saying you can, but you know me, we make mistakes, we do, because we're just normal people just doing normal things, you know, we're not, that's not our job, it's not our job to do that, and I don't know, maybe that's the way Wales Online works, maybe that is his job, or maybe whoever decided to put that up gets paid on clicks, because the amount of people that complained about that, each one of those was a click, and that's the way it works. So yeah, let's just say we're all incredibly pissed off with Wales Online, and move on from this. So who else will be pissed off? ITV. I can't talk about ITV, because I need to know when the contract ends for their coverage of the World Cup, and whether other broadcasters can come in, because I've had a cut from them. I've had an absolute cut off of ITV, they're getting worse, you know, it's like every weekend they ruin it, you know, rugby, it's just awful. So on Saturday you had the Wales-Portugal game, and when the final whistle went, I didn't stay for the analysis, I quickly switched off, because my wife wanted to watch Strictly, and I had to do some stuff, so we didn't want to introduce anything. I do like Strictly, I'm not going to lie. So I switched over to Strictly, and I wrote a post on Twitter saying something along the lines of, you know, despite the difficulties and the frustrations that we've seen with Wales, you know, we've got 10 points, you know, we all would have bitten our hands off to have 10 points at this stage, wouldn't we? And then somebody replied saying, no, it's actually 9 points we got. I said, well, no, it's not, it's 10 points, isn't it? You know, it's two bonus point wins. So I sent him a screenshot, I had to double-check then, you know, so I went onto the Rugby World Cup app, the official app, and I screenshotted it, it says 10 points, like, what are you on about? And then people got involved in the conversation, they had a load of mentions, so what happened was, after the game, ITV showed Wales as having 9 points, not 10. And come on, this is basic stuff, isn't it? You know, it's just little silly things like that, you know, getting the score wrong in the first game, and I know some people said, well, you know, the one flag went up and the one didn't, it's just silly little things like that that's just really frustrating, because it should be, you know, you shouldn't make mistakes like that, so this is basic stuff. So that annoyed me, first of all. Then I watched the Australia Fiji game, right, and it was an absolutely brilliant game. It was almost ruined by the commentary of Nolly Waterman, okay? Now, I've got to be careful what I say here, because if I put this online, I would get the wrong sort of people chipping in and replying, because you would get a lot of what I call gammons and gatekeepers bemoaning the fact that it's a woman commentator, and that's not the route I'm going, this is not a gender thing whatsoever, and I want to make that absolutely perfectly clear, okay? But the commentary during that game was just awful. It was absolute cringe, and it was just the stuff she was coming out with. You know, she described Batya, there was one point the game said, Batya, he's a complete savage, and then she's like, he's a magician, and he's like granite, and he's, you know, she says about this one thing, he's the size of a shed, and she's just coming out with this really weird sort of meaning of soundbites, like, what are you on about that, you know? And I'm watching the game with my wife, but she's like, who's this commentator? I said, oh, it's Nolly Waterman. Oh, she's awful, isn't she? You know, and that's not for me, that's from another woman as well, and she does get a lot of criticism about the commentary online Nolly Waterman, and unfortunately, she does get a lot of abuse, and that's bang out of order, no one should be abusing her whatsoever, because it's wrong. But I've got to say, I could understand why she winds the viewers up, because the commentary is terrible. Every time I've listened to it, I just haven't enjoyed it, and she was just really shouty, coming out with, like, all these awful cliches and soundbites, and it was like, no, I don't need to hear that, I just want to know what's going on, I want you to tell me what you're seeing, and your opinion, do you know what I mean? It just felt weird, it felt cringy. I just didn't enjoy the commentary on that game at all. And then on the Sunday, then, sorry? I've got to say, I think she's just been spending too much time with the BT crowd, because I remember when she first started doing the old game here and there, usually on things like Premiere 15s, she was incredibly insightful, and I'm talking about how attack, you know, attack lines would set her funds back free defensively, and it was really, really engaging. Yeah, yeah, I feel like all pundits and BT sort of get dragged down to the level of some of the other ones, just because they feel like that's the style it has to be, because they're the ones who get all the big work. I imagine we're going to have the same issue with the Sunday games, with the, well, saying that, CGI3 was Sunday, but to me, the big one was Japan, where they couldn't, for the life of them, say Shota Horie, or Lavish Agne. It was 12 different pronunciations of both their names, and all of them were wrong. Yeah, I was about to come on to that. So, you know, like I said, with Molly Walker, it's not Jennifer whatsoever, because I quite like Philippa Cutty, a commentator. Now, she's another one that gets a lot of criticism for her commentary online, but I actually think she's a better commentator than most people give her credit for, and I actually think Claire Thomas, who's also commentating, I think she's a very good commentator, if you're doing a couple of games. I think she covered the Italy and Libya, where I thought she was very good, but I just found Molly Walker's commentary just, it was cringy, it was loud, it was, like I said, it was just meaningless soundbites that we just didn't need to hear, and I'm hoping, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, I'm hoping she's not covering Australia v Wales, because I'm going to have to go to S4C, I'm going to have to go BBC Radio Wales, I can't, I can't put up with that, I can't, I'm sorry. And then on the Sunday night, then, so we started discussing the Wales match. Oh, it's a great result for Wales, yeah, so they're talking about the Fiji, great result for Wales, and I'm like, no it's not, it's not a great result at all. What would have been a great result for Wales if A, Australia had won, or B, if Fiji kicked that penalty at the end, because that would have denied Australia a losing bonus point. As it stands now, this pool is wide open, and just because Wales are top, yeah, we're in a decent position, but it wasn't a great result for Wales at all. Clive has just looked at the pool, haven't he? He's seen Wales are top, and he's gone, oh yeah, this is great, and no Clive, it's not, like, pay attention, keep up to what's going on. And then we move on to the commentary of England-Japan. Now I didn't see all of this game, I have to be honest, I was sort of flicking through and doing other stuff, and I really like Nick Mullins, I want to say that first of all, I do like Nick Mullins, I know he's another Marmite commentator, but I do like Nick Mullins, but honestly, that bit there, when he said, Argentina's defence holding out, it's Japan then, it's Japan, Argentina was last week, it is Japan. Now somebody said, I don't know if this is true, but there's another comment from people saying that he referred to Japan as Fiji at one point, didn't he say something like Japan won the World Cup four years ago or something? He said something like, this isn't the Japan team that we saw winning the World Cup in their own country, and then he just moves on, and you're like, I don't, I didn't, I quite like him as well, but you do get to that stage where you kind of go, you know, are they just trying to say something to fill the space? Do you know what I mean? One of the great things with people like Eddie Butler, for example, is he could let the silence happen and just let the game happen. If he didn't need to say anything, I mean, radio is different, radio is, you have to have something going all the time. But, you know, the commentator needs to have a feel for the game, and a feel for the crowd. And I think this is going to sound quite harsh now, but it's, in my head, I know what I'm talking about. With the advent of like professional broadcasters, yeah, so you grow up, you go to college, you study a media degree, you go into radio, you do radio, you do media, and then you're commentating on a game. You may not have played the game at all. You may have seen a lot of the game. You may have commentated a lot of games. You haven't stood on a terrace when it's pissing down, and it's four degrees below, and you're sort of getting pasted by your local rivals. You haven't stood there and cheered when your winger gets a 20 meter break and scores a try at the last minute, you know. That you've got to have a feel for the game. You've got to have an experience of living the game. And some of the guys that are out there now, I mean, guys or girls, whatever, you know, some of the people that are doing it now don't have that for me, you know. Eddie, you could tell, you know, Eddie and Brian Moore, they kind of wind each other up. They'd be a bit of a niggle, but they were actually good mates, and they both understood the game, and they could tell you about the game. The way they communicated the game was good. I agree. That's what's missing now. That's what's missing. I agree with what you're saying, though. I mean, less is more, and that's what I would say to someone like Dolly Waterman. I don't want to hear nonsensical, clichéd soundbites, you know. I just want proper commentary, and I don't want to shout at that either. She was really shouting, like, less is more. And I just think, on a general point, I just think they're really lazy. I think they're really complacent. They have some good pundits. I mean, Sam Wolverton is really good. I like Havana on there. Mark Pugach, the presenter, is a football man. You can tell he hasn't got the rugby knowledge, like, even in his follow-up questions. He's not asking really interesting, specific questions. He's like, yeah, you know, they played well, though, didn't they? You know, they had some opportunities, but, you know, it's like, oh, come on. I mean, friends of the pod, Hugh Griffin, who's your Scots co-host, he did a really good rant on his podcast, the Pirate Rugby podcast. He's more eloquent than I am about explaining this, but ITV, I just think, are really doing rugby a disservice for their coverage, and I just wanted to get off my chest, because it really did annoy me. It's just little silly things. Getting people's names wrong, getting scores wrong, you know, getting pools wrong, nonsensical nonsense in commentary, you know. Just come on. Be better, ITV, please. Just be better. Well, I was going to say, this is when me and Harley stepped in, but go on, Harley. What were you going to say, mate? I just wanted to put in, so, because actually, I do think there were a couple of decent bits of ITV coverage. So, after the France game, it was a big discussion, and it was Sean Fitzpatrick, my girlfriend's it, and I can't remember who the other pundit was. I think it was Shanklin, or it might have been Flax and Shanks doing a demonstration, talking about Jackal's turnovers and how the breakdown works, and actually, there was a very nice and total discussion about saying, well, as someone who's just me, who's only ever really had the team hit the breakdown, this is what I thought about this, you know, as someone who, you know, Malguy said, you know, I have to get in there, and then they went to Sean Fitzpatrick and said, well, back in our day, this was rucking. We had to do it this way, and it was actually a decent discussion. The problem is, is you then have discussions like the drop goal demo on Sunday. It was just some weird words. I'd honestly thought I'd put something weird in my team. Going on with this thing with Nolly and Sheldon, because I like actually a co-com, a commentator who goes in, and all they have to do is call the game. I think the thing some people don't like with Nolly is she's leading, because I've heard her lead, like when she's leading comms, and she's the one just calling the game. When those cliches come in, you kind of say, all right, that's fine. But when you go to a second commentator, it's usually more for analysis. And I think Jamie Lyle has spoken about it on the Squid Rugby retrospective about, again, going back to the importance of silence. And, you know, saying that actually, you know, the way some people have brought it, I think Philippa said it can be really good, which can flip between the two, because you can get really excited, but also then say, well, actually, this is a very intricate thing. This is how the kick battle would work. And, you know, it's really useful. And I look, you know, Austin Healy is one of those people who could be absolutely terrible, but you give him a really nice, intricate first phase play, and the detail he can break that down into, and how simply he can describe it. Like that, you know, that's what, to me, is a bit more geeky about my rugby. That's the sort of stuff I want for my co-coms. I can get why he's just shouty, shouty, shouty. It just gets the noise then. But yeah, I do think sometimes they go a bit lazy, and sometimes they just go into cliches. I do agree. I do, however, agree. I can't believe these words are coming out of my mouth, and my mum will push me out of the plane on the way to Leon for saying this. I agree with Sir Clive about Wales, Australia. Right, that's it. We're done. No, that's it. We're done for the night. On terms of points, yes. I can see, like, Australia winning would be better for that. But I think Fiji exposed so many weak areas in that Australia team, and I don't think Eddie has the personnel or the time to fix them all. Because Fiji bloomed, but I mean, we're going to go into, I feel like I'm jumping ahead here, and like what Australia did very well. But the way they broke down that, the Australian breakdown, I think Wales probably won't get as much change, but that's still something they can get at. And they look quite mentally frail as well, the Australians. I think, so I think actually, I can see where Sir Clive's coming from that, but I imagine that's not what he meant when he said that. Okay, well, we'll put you on a yellow card for agreeing with Sir Clive, but it's definitely gone to the bunker to decide. We'll let everyone on Twitter decide whether you're allowed back on next week after agreeing with Sir Clive. So yeah, going back to the commentary bit. So we did a, we had a crack at YouTube Live to see if we could actually make the bloody thing work during the Portugal game. And we did, eventually we got it to go, and it was a bit of a laugh and all that kind of stuff. And we had some good feedback, and the people that were there were enjoying it and chatting and what have you. But we would, I mean, that game was, for all the games for us to choose to do, it couldn't have been a worse game to choose. Because the amount of times that we screwed up stuff in that game, it was quite difficult to commentate, wouldn't it? We're not commentating, but we were trying to commentate, were we? We were just being your mates in a room, and just talking like your mates in your room. But it was difficult to find something positive to say for most of that game, wouldn't it? There were things, but as I alluded to when we were doing the live stream, it seemed Wales seemed to focus on speed over everything else, and in a weird way that slowed everything down. Because they were so focused on just trying to do everything quickly, people wouldn't get into the breakdown, which meant we weren't getting into shape, which meant we just, it just looked awful. And then we're making mistakes, and we didn't score a try. You know, we were getting the ball turned over, but the backfield wasn't then covered properly, so that Portugal was getting 50-22s. Players were isolated. I think the first turnover penalty that Mason Grady gives away is because Dylan Lewis overruns his support line and has to go all the way back to get into the breakdown, because he's completely cocked. He's completely cocked, because it looked so set up to being so full, and he shoots, overruns it. I mean, I'll get on to a lot. I mean, I do feel for Grady, because he seemed to take a lot of slack, and looking at it, watching it back, he got put in an awful lot of shit. But yeah, it was very hard to be positive. I mean, I thought our carrying game, in terms of our individual carrying, was a lot, was some of the best I've seen in a while. The problem was, is the support and the structure wasn't there to sort of make the most of it. I think we said this at the time. One of the good things from that game was that it was a full stadium, and actually the atmosphere seemed quite good. I mean, when Portugal were running the ball, it seemed like there were a lot of French people in there supporting Portugal. I quite liked that. I quite enjoyed the fact that what you might class as a lower tier nation was actually getting a fair bit of support at the World Cup. And if you're coming into that and you're Portugal, that's their first game, that's a good experience. And if you're sitting at home, if you're Portuguese and you're sitting at home, you're not going to be pissed off with your team turning in and playing that game. And you're going to hear the crowd and all that kind of stuff, and you might just go and watch a few more games. So I quite liked that from that kind of angle. I'll come on to Mason Grady later, because I didn't think he had that bad a game, in all honesty. There were a couple of key bits that he screwed up, but in general, I thought he was all right. So, Jane, what did you enjoy about the game? Let's start with that one. What did you actually enjoy in that Wales-Portugal game? What did I enjoy? I think from a Welsh point of view, it wasn't much to enjoy at all, was it? It was an absolute slog. But let's be honest, if I tell you what I did enjoy from that game, I enjoyed watching Portugal. I thought they were fantastic. I really did. I loved the brand of rugby they played, the ambition and the energy they played with. And it was just great to see them having a crack, wasn't it? Warren Gatlin said before the game that there were similarities with EG and Portugal, and I was kind of like, is there? But then I saw what he meant in terms of their line speed and the way they are with ball in hand, how dangerous they are. I was really impressed. I thought their fallback was great. The no-look pass on the line-out was terrific. The line speed in defence and the physicality, they surprised me just how physical they were. They didn't shirk any chance. They were really taking it to Wales. I did think to myself, well, is this sustainable? How long will it be before they start fading away? And I thought in that second half, Portugal would fade away, the gaps would open up, Wales would be clinical, and then they'd build up a score. I mean, how wrong was I? Portugal went at it from beginning to end, and I thought they were absolutely terrific. I thought they gave a very, very good result, and they should be very proud of themselves. So yeah, watching Portugal was great fun, but from a Wales point of view, there wasn't much to enjoy. I mean, the good thing was that we got a bonus point. We were just about, but I found Wales a slog. This game just sums up for me what we've always known about Wales, particularly in the Wangatland era, is that whenever they make wholesale changes, we always struggle. It never goes to plan. Every time we make 13, or 12 in this case, because Jack Morgan had to come back in, didn't he, because Tommy Radcliffe found out. Whenever we make wholesale changes, it's an absolute slog, and I did get frustrated with that game. As much as I enjoyed watching Portugal, I thought they played some lovely rugby from a Wales point of view. If I had any here, I would have been tearing it out, because it was just, it was awful. I mean, the line-out malfunctioned, accuracy was poor, it was disjointed, the halfbacks really struggled to get put in the game, and it was great that Iain's come back. He didn't have a great game, did he, let's be honest. Thomas Williams didn't have a great game. I think Thomas Williams is better coming off the bench personally now than starting. I think that's his role in this Wales team. I'd be starting Garth Davies every time. I'll tell you what, a good positive for Wales, aside from the obvious that Jack Morgan went a little bit far down. I thought this was Christian's best game for Wales. I thought he was very, very good. He made a line-break or two, he worked really hard in defence, he worked at the ruck was good, he was hitting the rucks hard. You know, I have been a little bit underwhelmed by Chunza, as Harley knows, I've had this conversation, because for me, he does enough, but he doesn't do anything to really stand out. I want to see him impose himself on the game a little bit more, but he's certainly done that against Portugal. So, that was a major positive for me, for Chunza. I guess you could find only one fault in Chunza's game, and that was a missed time-jump line-out. You can tell he's not used to lifting. Whenever you watch him play, he always jumps, but I never see him lift, and you can tell there was a missed jump line-out. On the missed time-in line-out, yes, a couple of them were bad and they were on us, but I feel like we're doing discredit to Portugal, because they did some absolutely, you know, there was that one where we were five metres out and they stole it up on the front, you know, and they just won the race up. And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, it was just a case of they stole it, and sometimes I think you've got to say fair bucks. But yeah, I also, I would point out, so I want to check in my stat of the week, if that's all right. So, this is from Russ Petty. So, throughout 2023, up until this game, Wales averaged 108 runs for 351 metres, and they would make five clean breaks, and that's over in 80 minutes. By the first half, in 94 runs, they'd made 423 metres and six clean breaks. By the end of the game, Rio de Janeiro alone made eight, eight clean breaks. I mean, the problem with, I think the problem was, is because this team was so thrown together, they weren't there, they didn't know, they weren't quite in the right place, and actually watching it back, you looked at some of the mistakes, and it is literally inches. You know, it's inches, it's a second. Like, I reckon if you put that team out again, most of those mistakes wouldn't happen. There'd be some completely new mistakes, admittedly, but I think, you know, just to be fair, I don't think it was that bad, I just think it looks terrible because of where those little mistakes were. One thing I want to say is, actually, I was very impressed with Johnny Williams. I don't think I'd ever say those words. I think his yellow card was actually the right call. Yeah, we discussed that quite a bit, didn't we? When is it right to give a yellow card? I thought it was a very sensible one because I think Portugal would have been in a way if he hadn't slapped that ball. And then go back to Grady, I thought he covered for Johnny Williams quite well in defence in those 10 minutes. So, I'll come back to that bit about selecting the same team again and all of that because I think that's where we'd miss a trick. But I just want to go back to Shunza for a second. I think the most interesting thing, not the most interesting thing, but the thing I find interesting with Shunza is it takes everybody a while to get used to his name. And we pronounce it as Chris Shunza. Yeah, so we leave the T off. It's almost like a silent T because that just feels weird saying that for his name. I saw a clip off on Australia, I can't remember if it was a radio or TV, and the presenter is going, and that's Christ Shunza. Christ? The guy's called Christ? And you go, somebody correct him, goes, it's pronounced Crist, Crist. And he goes, looks like Christ to me, it does. So, yeah, I think the amount of different spellings of his name, his surname, if I'm ever writing it, I'll go back and I'll find it on the WIU website just to make sure that I get it right. Do you know what I mean? Because you don't want to be pocking that up. The guy's worked hard to get to where he's got to, so the least you can do is spend 30 seconds and find out to spell his fucking surname properly. But yeah, go back to consistency. I think this is where we continually shoot ourselves in the foot. Like I said, making 12 changes, 13 changes, whatever. And we're throwing players in who don't actually, not a lot of them are coming on regularly as subs. Do you know what I mean? So they're not even involved in matchday 23s that much. And for me, yeah, this is where Gatland gets it wrong so many times, because it's like putting your B team out. And we're the best one in the world. Your B team in training are the defence. The only time your B team get the ball in training is when you want your A team to work on defence. And even then it'll be right. I want you to play like Australia. I want you to play like Fiji. I want you to play, do you know what I mean? They're not there and they're not playing as themselves. So when you throw them into a game, it's like when we used to play trial games. When you're walking down the tunnel and you're going, all right, so you're so-and-so from there and you're all on my team. All right. And you get that feel when they're coming out. You go, right, just find somebody in a black shirt, boys, and throw them the ball. So I think it's one of the areas of the game that we really need to improve. Because you look at Ireland, France, New Zealand, and if we're going to do anything, those are the teams that we need to judge ourselves against. When they make changes, all right, the French one kind of backfired this week, I'll be fair on that. But normally when they make changes, it's within the squad and it's like they'll make seven or eight and they might even throw a couple of weird ones in on a big game. But it just seems like it's got a plan. We've identified six players that are likely to come through in the next two years and we want to start giving them time. We're going to wait until we play Portugal and then Georgia and then we'll give Shenzhen a game against the lower teams. So for me, it goes back to, and this is where so many problems in the Welsh set-up are, not just the Welsh team but the Welsh game as a whole. We focus so much on the 15 players or the 23 players that take the park and we forget that there's thousands of players that support the pyramid that get them there. And we're just continually shooting ourselves in the foot every time. I'm going to quickly come in and bang a drum. I've been banging since the 2015 World Cup. If we're bringing in Wales A, can we fucking use Wales A? It doesn't matter if we're using them to play Scarlets or to try and do a weird fixture with Munster or whatever, like South Africa use, or we go on tour, we take Wales A and they go, you know, I mean, Namibia, I mean, watching Namibia, they're crying out for even a second spring team to come and play them more regularly. Because clearly the other teams in Africa are not giving them the sort of chances they need to get better. I'm wondering, I don't know if you guys would agree, maybe what would be better is when we have situations like this, instead of completely wholesale, because if you think about it, I mean, Dan and Falafel, Falafel only started that game because he needs game time. But if he'd been sitting firing up until then, you know full well he wasn't playing. Do we almost need to have the team that finishes one game, starting the next one and then bringing in a fresh bench? And maybe, you know, someone's a bit injured or battered and, you know, are only changing one or two. So I mean, that's something Farrell got, Andy Farrell's got quite right. You know, the reason why I don't seem to be having low scores, they don't, it's very rare they ever do a wholesale change. You know, it's always like, oh, we'll try a different hook with starting props, we'll try a slightly different back row, we'll try a different centre, you know, a different centre in the partnership and sort of just tweaking one or two. Obviously Gatlin doesn't have that luxury because he's only had them for six months, not four years. But I mean, he was doing this beforehand. I mean, 2019 Uruguay game, we had the horror hat-trick from Hallamay Moss, we had three disallowed tries, we just about squeaked the bonus point. One thing I would like to point out, only one team was convincing with their second choice and that was South Africa. Again, so South Africa, France didn't get a bonus point. I remember England only just got past Japan and Japan have been pretty bobbing this year. You make points like that, but you know, England were pretty much full strength. I don't think you're going to see many changes to their South Africa game next week. I mean, the thing is, what disappointed me, sorry go on, I was going to say just, yeah, everyone's having to go, you know, everyone's having to go Wales for putting a second team out and only just getting passed. But then some teams only just got passed in less convincing, in a less convincing way. I don't think there was ever a point when that game was in doubt. It's controversial. The bonus point was in doubt, but the game was fine. Whereas Uruguay, I think genuinely had a chance of beating France. I just feel like it's a narrative that's always picked up. I brought it up last week. I think there's a narrative against Wales and people always want to do Wales then. I think with the Japan game, if that ball doesn't come off Marla's head and go over, you know, England was screwing up stuff left, right and centre up to that point and that kind of settled them. So one lucky bounce off his head for a try and that kind of allowed them to go on. So without that, yeah, they would have still been struggling. Well, the first try was a mistake as well from Japan. I just want to quickly say, though, that the most disappointing thing for me is, and I'm not taking anything away from Portugal here. I really don't want to do them a disservice because they were fantastic. But when you looked at the players that we had, when you looked at that team, now, I'm sorry, that still should have been good enough to put Portugal to the salt, you know, because there was experience in there, there was quality in there. But every time we do this, it never quite clicks. But I was really disappointed that, yet again, several individuals just didn't put their hands up. And that's what Gatwin wants. But he makes these changes. He is laying down the challenge to the players. He's saying, put your hands up for the next game. And several players didn't do that. But like I said, no disrespect to Portugal. They were fantastic. But we really should have taken Portugal to the cleaners for that team. I'm not saying there should have been 70, 80 points, but we should have put them to the salt a lot sooner. And it's really disappointing that we didn't, quite frankly. And let's not forget, there's only one of their players, only one of their players is playing top 14 rugby. The rest of them are playing lower league. Some of them are amateurs. The captain even said that after the game. So that's what makes it a little bit disappointing, a little bit like when we try to compare other teams, a little bit more disappointed. You know, we are playing amateurs. And that was disappointing. We didn't really get the job done as we would have liked. So before we move on to Fiji, Australia, then let's just talk about, and this kind of goes back to some of the stuff in the press as well. So Pinto's red card. So let's remove the referee. Yeah, because we said we're not going to talk about referees and all of that kind of stuff. I'm more interested in, do you think that that was a red? Yeah. And the reaction in the media to it, because I'm quite clear that that was a red. Yeah. Your intention, if your intention is anything, yeah. And the outcome is something different. You get judged on the outcome. Take Joe Marla the other way round. Yeah. So he didn't mean to knock that ball on. He didn't mean to stick the head on it and put it over the dry line. But that's what happened. And England got seven points from it. So whether, you know, if you're just going to go on, did you mean to do that? No, I didn't. OK, we'll take the seven points off you. No, that's not the way it works. Yeah. So whether or not he was, he was in the air, he was off balance. That's his issue. Nobody else's. Nobody touched him in the air. He timed his jump wrong. He got his body shape all out wrong. And in order to get himself back down safely, he threw a leg out, you know, in a fraction of a second, he threw a leg out and it was dangerous. And it happened to hit Adams just below the eye. You know, if it was a centimetre, maybe two centimetres higher, that's, you know, he's off and he's out of the tournament, end of. Yeah. So I've got, I say he played quite well as a player up to then, but I've got no sympathy for it at all because we don't judge on intention. We judge on outcome. And the outcome was that foot was in a dangerous position. So, you know, he might get away with it when he sits down with his review board and they might go, OK, yeah, we can see it. As opposed to if he was jumping and fully in control with a foot fully out extended. Yeah. And it goes right into Adams then. Yeah. When it gets to the review board and they decide on the ban, then that's a different place. Either way, it was a red card for me straight off. So what did you guys make of it? Do you want me to go first? OK, I'll go first then. So I can understand why people might think it's harsh, but by the letter of the law, it is a red. It's a very similar incident. I don't know if you guys remember this. Do you remember? I think it was about three or four years ago. So Dan Evans, he was playing against Massen in the Heineken Cup and he jumped up in the air, he caught Teddy Thomas in the face and he got a red card for it after just 37 seconds. That's what it reminded me of. It was a very similar incident to that. And you are absolutely right about intent. It's irrelevant because obviously Pinto did not intend to harm Josh Adams. He didn't intend on connecting him in the face. But here's the problem, right? If you extend your leg in the air towards an opponent and it connects with his or her face, then you're asking for trouble straight away. The intent doesn't come into it. Whether you meant it or not, if you extend your leg, connect to the face, it's going to be a red card. Just because people don't like it, just because people don't agree with it, doesn't mean it's not a red. So, yes, I understand why people don't like it, but by the letter of the law, it is a red card. So, yeah, I agree with you. I've got no issue with it. For me, it's a red. You. So, Harley, what did you make of the media reaction to it? Lots of people who should know better, shall we say, tweeting that it should never... I saw one, one of our favourites, who said, Adams made contact with a player in the air, so he should have been yellow carded. And I replied, he headbutted the bottom of his foot. Surely that's a red card every time. What did you make of the media reaction to it? I mean, first of all, I just want to say, Damian pointed out my point that this has happened before, and it's also happened at the international level. I've forgotten the game, someone else was posted about it, just don't mind, but it is a red card. I was talking with Francisco about it, and, you know, I agree, it's tough. Personally, you know, if the disciplinary panel comes out and says, do you know what, the red card on the field is enough. You know, just because he's not going to do it, he's going to make more. The reason why players are jumping out and getting their feet out is to protect them. It's a self-preservation thing, I think. It just gets... that, though, when it looks so comically kung fu, it just looks really bad. And, you know, I mean, you've got, you know, a stud going into the eye area, you know, you tend to be blind to play to that. I mean, I know what people are saying about why didn't he go for a HAI. I'm not entirely sure that, you know, the sort of thing that happened. I think you've probably got more risk of the stud going in the eye and causing damage that way, which wouldn't necessarily generate a concussion. Maybe he should have gone off to be checked anyway. Personally, just I'd rather be safer than sorry. The media reaction was just utterly baffling. And this particular person we're on about, it's not the first time he's had a go at Josh Adams for being the victim. He also pointed out that Adams milked it after being taken out in the air. And it makes you wonder, you know, did he refuse his autograph one time? Did he skip out on a tablet? You know, just were they in a round? Did he skip out beforehand? Was he not invited to the gender reveal party? I don't I don't know. But it's just baffling. Like, the problem is, I mean, what you've got to remember is, as soon as someone says, oh, well, it's a red letter of the law, but there's no need for a but. The whole reason why rugby has laws and it's not rules is because in theory, it's supposed to take the Interpretation Act. To me, the law is more absolute. And it is quite clear. Many years ago, when I was playing rugby league, I was I'd arrived for training early because I was playing youth. And Jonathan Davis and John Devereaux were kicking practice and kicking practice. And Jonathan Davis was practicing with catching the ball with his leg straight out in front like that. Back in those days, that was how you did it in rugby league. I think we probably still do. But, you know, they were coming into Jonathan Davis with a pad and going, they almost like had a target on the pads. Check here, you know. But this was 20, 20, at least 20 years ago, probably 25 years ago. Yeah. And the game has moved on from there. You know, I know that was vegan stuff, but the game has moved on to a bit where we understand what dangerous play is. You know, there was a time when we literally would scrums go down and you'd literally just try and headbutt somebody as you were going in and hope that that first contact would crush the other side of the scrum. You know, we moved on. And I think these people that are writing these things and putting these things out on Twitter need to realise that actually, yeah, we're in a different game now. The game that I played, you can say 15, 20 years ago, was very, very different to the game my son plays now. You know, it's a completely different scenario. It's safer, it's cleaner, it's more player orientated, it's welfare orientated. You know, I've still got injuries now from when I was playing and I can't see my son coming out of playing that game and having anywhere near the injuries that I've got, simply because players are looked after better now. So, you know, these are the people that are putting this crap out, don't understand that. They don't understand that the game has changed. The game has moved on. Somebody said about, you know, rucking, as I say, I said on the Scarlett's pod, but I spoke about how, yeah, if you were on the wrong side, you got raked out of there and you came back out and you made sure that you didn't get caught there again. And somebody said about, if somebody's playing on the wrong side, we should be allowed to ruck them, like in the good old days. They weren't good old days. They were the old days. There was nothing good about those days. There was just violence that was legalised on a little green pitch for an hour and a half on a Saturday afternoon, you know. So, yeah, it's gone off topic, but there's a reason these red cards are there. The one that I just want to add in, sorry, just to butt in is the thing, I was talking about the whole, you know, there were studs in there. How is a stud to the eye any different to someone gouging? That's still, you know, that's still potentially blinding injury. So, if you think gouging could be a red card, then surely that should be as well. Simple as that to me. But I think a lot of this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. It's clickbait and people are going, oh, you know, I'll get a certain type of people that will shout and scream and any interaction is good interaction and all of that kind of stuff. So, let them carry on. Just some people are idiots. Anyway, if we want to go on to other things, what I think is, once again, you know, no Fiji, no party in this World Cup, I think. So, I think they have to get to the final just purely because that will guarantee the game's awesome. So, yeah, let's move on to Fiji, Australia. Although I did have a slight miscalculation yesterday because I somehow took the score until they were eight points ahead until about two minutes ago, until about a minute ago I went, oh, 527. I was gutted when that last kick didn't go. I was watching the game in the car on the way home. So, I dropped the boy at uni and was watching it on the way home. So, heading down the M4 on Fiji breakaway for the first try and the car is quite quiet, but I obviously had it on mute. So, I go, yeah, come on. What the fuck, what do you want about, what's wrong? Oh, Fiji just scored. Fiji just scored and doing 70 miles an hour down the M4. I had to work the baby up during the Japan game when Japan made a huge break. We needed that kick to go over though, because look, I was in a difficult position because I really love Fiji and I go home in the office each day. So, partly it was like, you know, I told Fiji to do this, but on the other hand, I was thinking it would be much better for Wales, less sweat and less stress if Australia wins, you know. So, it's a bit of a conundrum for me, but I'm not going to like, there were moments in the game where it was like, come on Australia, and then there were moments in the game where it was like, go on Fiji. That miscount at the end, we really needed that to go over, because it would be much better if Australia did not have that losing bonus point when they're, but the game itself was terrific. I thought Fiji were great. The difference this week to last week though, they kicked their goals, you know, the scrum half. They actually kicked this goal. So, that was the difference. It makes you wonder if they didn't have, you know, if they had that last week against Wales, they probably would have won. They left a lot of points out there from the team, but they were aggressive at the breakdown. They were physical and brilliant carriers. Australia just looked after it, didn't they? You know, I never once thought that they would come back and beat Fiji when they were trailing. I just, even when they scored near the end, I just didn't think, nah, you're not going to do it. I mean, they didn't deserve to. I think the score, I'd actually flattered Australia in many ways. Fiji were worthy winners and good on them. Fantastic respect. Great game, great performance. Yeah, I completely agree. I think Fiji were really good for a bit. I agree with you as well. I think if they're kicking their goals and they have the confidence, they, I don't want to say definite because you just don't know. I think it's very likely that they've beaten us. And yeah, I think Australia do. One, they're missing Tupou and Skelton because Tupou has just been amazing getting around to them. The sheer weight that Skelton adds to their scrum, and particularly when the second string scrum, the second, you know, the bench came on, it just fell apart for them. You know, and this thing with Fiji, the way you got through to Fiji, got through Fiji, was you basically targeted this set piece. Yeah, at the moment, they're a bit like Cardiff. Turnovers galore, no line outs. But, you know, their scrum has improved massively and, you know, you've got the stepped up equivalent. I mean, Wales came across with it when we thought we'd get away with the front row we finished with. But it's just, I mean, at no point was I conflicted because for me, if Wales are getting through, they're getting through by their own merit and not favours from other teams. And I just want Fiji to do well. Because I like Fiji, you know, if that first game was Fiji versus anyone other than Wales, I'd be supporting Fiji again. It was just such a good game. But I agree that Australia had a couple of good moments. I mean, a lot of people are complaining about their one try, which I think is a bit shitty anyway, because it's like, oh, the line didn't go far. Yeah, because it went 4.97. Get over yourself. Did they play the ball on the floor? I don't think so. You know, if someone gets tackled and then they pop the ball up for an offload, you know, is that playing the ball on the floor? I mean, technically, but, you know, it's like the cornerstone for how good France's attack is, is being able to quickly offload off the deck. You know, I mean, I do think the scoreline flattens Australia, which is kind of why I agree with Lord Voldemort. You know, I didn't see anything in that Australian performance that necessarily worries Wales, which is the thing that worries me. Because if anyone can turn around and basically decide, oh, hang on, here's the perfect England to defeat Wales, it's probably Eddie. Well, let's look at Australia then, just as Australia. Where do we think their strengths are? Where will they be dangerous for Wales? Jayne, where do you think that we've got to keep an eye on Australia on Saturday? Well, look, it's not quite clicking for them, but they have got a handful of really good players. So if you look at their backline, I actually think they've got a pretty dynamic backline. You know, they've got dangerous runners like Sammo Quereby, Jordan Patea, Corrobetti, Ben Donaldson. It's a very handy player. So if they give them time and space, those guys can do a lot of damage. So we will have to be careful. They can play some really good rugby. Harley touched on earlier, this scrum has improved. I think Angus Spence has been brilliant from, by the way. Really, really good player. The set-piece will have to be right, you know, our set-piece, because let's be honest, our scrum and line-out is a bit iffy, to say the least at the moment. So we really are going to have to get the upper hand there. Massive loss to Poe and Skelton, as Harley has already touched on. I don't know if Eddie's just talking bollocks, playing mind games when he says they're not going to be available. And it won't surprise anyone if they are named in the team. Although I will say, though, I thought, and that's positive for the Walgreaves, I thought Nick Frost was very, very good in the second row. Really, really good. They've got a bit of a problem, though, haven't they, at flying half? So you guys know I've been talking about Australia's vulnerability at 10 with Carter Gordon. I think they chucked this lad into the deep end and he's sinking. And he was out of his depth yet again, I'm afraid, on Sunday. And that was proven when Eddie Jones took him off after just 50 minutes. It was painful to watch, quite frankly. Do not be surprised if Eddie starts Ben Donaldson at 10. I think he's going to make a change there. I don't think he's going to have Carter Gordon start there. I think he'll have Ben Donaldson. He has played at 10 for Australia before, but he is a full-back by trade. So I would not be at all surprised if they stick Ben Donaldson at 10, because he's already doing the goal-kicking anyway. So I think that might be one of the changes that Eddie might consider. Bristol will die for them, and they will be dangerous. And we know what to expect from Australia. On the one hand, I think this is a team the Wales shouldn't fear at all. But given our recent record against the Wallabies, it does make me a tad nervous. But they've got good players and they shouldn't be underestimated. They are a dangerous team, but I do feel that we should have the upper hand. But we certainly can't take them for granted, because they've got some big goal-carriers and some dangerous players in our team, even if it's not quite clicking at the moment. So, Harley, given where Australia are, and if they don't win on Saturday, that's it, they may pack their bags and go home. I think if they don't win on Saturday, Eddie probably will be packing his bags and the rest of the squad will be staying there. But how does that change their mental approach to this game? You know, they've got everything on this now, whereas Wales, you know, it's not do or die for us. The Fiji game was do or die. This is a little bit not do or die. So how does that change for Australia now? I mean, it may not be do or die, but it's still a hell of an important game and we want to make sure we get something from it. So we're certainly looking at, I mean, we should be aiming for a win. And I do feel like when Eddie Jones made his bloody comment about, you know, he's picked the squad to win the World Cup, I do think he's thinking of 2027, not this one, because there's so many young players and stuff. I do think Australia can be desperate, which can bring out the best and the worst in Australian teams, you know, because it can bring the best out, because they'll end up just throwing courses of the wind and they could tear up defence, just by intricate passing and just playing, playing rugby. But it can also bring the worst out because you've got young, a lot of young inexperienced players there. And what we know is when young inexperienced players get stressed, they tend to make stupid mistakes and that's throwing off loads that aren't on, or it's, you know, stupid penalties. So I think Wales, I think the key is going to be for Wales, is they can't, you know, we say this every game, and we said this for both games so far this World Cup, and they've done the opposite. So I mean, I might as well tell them, try and reverse psychology and tell them to just throw it around with abandon. But I think you've just got to, you know, almost similar to how we beat them in 2019, you know, you know what, let's just drop the balls on, kick the dropped balls. It'll make, it'll make, grab from a rock and roll's piss on a permanent rolling boil, which I always find funny, because I know how much I hate dropped balls. But you know what, just kick threes. You know, I mean, I've already gone too close to Clive, so I'm not going to count up in multiples of three, because I feel like if you can't do that, and you're an adult, then maybe go back to school. But I think, I think Wales have just got to be disciplined to take the things they did really well in the CG game. You know, you know, the fence is really good. They took their chances. Yeah, maybe change the kicking game. So I know we typically don't kick to touch, because we like to keep it on field and go for a thing. I think that might be a mistake, particularly with players like Mark Nguyen. Nguyen gets hit, I apologise, I could never say it. But you know, players like that are going to, you know, bend over. Carter Gordon is an incredibly exciting, but very experienced player, you get him. I know people complain about this tactic, despite the fact that every team does it, and every team I've ever been known or been a part of coaches the flankers do this and just hit the ten. Yeah, you know, you will rile him. I think it'd be interesting to see if it's Nick White starting or Tick McDermott, because I think he should be over his concussion by now. Because I think again, if it's Nick White, he's gonna be a little piss boy. He could be kicking 50-22s and smirking at you, because he is the epitome of what a good scrimmarter is at times. He's just a dick. I mean that as the highest compliment, so please don't be Australian rugby fans. I love Nick White because he's a prick. I said I shouldn't, Wales shouldn't be worried, which is exactly why Wales should be worried, because as soon as we go into a game of favourites, that's when things seem to go weird and wrong, especially against Australia. The big thing for me, I don't know if we're going to have any time to touch on what we might change on the bench. I'm very, very tempted to take a couple of those first 15 players and stick them on the bench. Not because I think necessarily they've done anything wrong. It's purely because having that experience at the end of the game, I feel could be far more important than at the start. So I think like having Adam Beard, you know, when he came on, it sort of shored a few things up. I mean, there's still plenty of things that went wrong, but maybe him coming off the bench, because I think David Jenkins has shown that he's more than good enough to do 15 minutes at top level rugby and hold his own, and having Beard come on might just sort of help to stabilise that transitional leadership. Derry Lake, I kind of want to see come off the bench. I love Lake, but I think him coming off his impacts and maybe sort of backloading it so it's more, you know, you're Nicky Smith, you're Derry Lake, people who are very good over the ball, just to help slow that game down, because that's when teams get to us at the moment. That's why we always end up in those last kind of five, 10 minutes and squeaky bum times that we're never quite sure, are we good enough to see the game out? The one player I think we're missing, and on merit maybe doesn't, and the way he's been playing and the fact he hasn't really been playing for the Ospreys, I think we're really missing at the moment is Owen Motkin. Just because of how good he was in 2019, it just helped him close the game out. I do think we're missing him, and the thing is, we're probably going to start talking the north and the centre, and I'm not sure I trust either Johnny Williams or Mason Grady to come on and see that game out yet, because I don't think either of them necessarily have the experience. I know you love Johnny Williams. Personally, this is where I feel like we really could have done with taking the risk on Joe Roberts. I think defensively, he's probably the most sound centre who was in that sort of squad. I think Watkins is a stretch and ask me. I think all goals of Watkins would be going just a bit too far. I agree with you on Joe Roberts defensively. My point is 2019 Motkin more than necessary. Motkin, that sort of thing there. It's that person who can come off and just lock down the midfield, whether he comes on at 12 or 13. Well, if we're time-travelling, then I'm going back and I'm getting Mark Jones back at number eight. Mark Jones, he was an absolute animal. Back in the 80s, he had a lot of issues after the game and all that. I said, if we want proper time-travel, we only have to go back to Josh Navidi. That would solve so many of our problems. The Cardiff boy brings up Josh Navidi. There we go. Name me a player who we missed more under Fivac than Josh Navidi when he was out. See, Navidi is a little bit like calling them Cardiff Blues on Twitter, because you don't need to say anything else. You just say, oh, I'm not a fan of Navidi. And wham, bang, they're in, they're gone. You call them Cardiff Blues, that's it. The fucking fireworks have gone and everything's off. He was a good player though. He was a very good player. But now that he's not there, it's more fun to just wind up Cardiff people. Oh, yeah. The difference between those two is, it's objectively funny when the reaction of some Cardiff fans when you call them the Blues. Navidi just was an awesome player and you're wrong to say otherwise. Dan Carter was a shit fly ass. It's just wrong. Okay, I'm posting this one out with some New Zealand comments. I'm not going to collect Dan Carter as a shit fly half a day. Yeah, we'll put that one out. So what are we expecting from Wales? How are Wales going to win this? I agree with, you know, attack Australia with a week and the week between 8, 9, 10 and the week in attack and the week in defence. So I'd be sending every runner. I'd be swapping George North to inside centre and I'd be going, there you go, have a crack at him. And he's had a go and then, right, let's fire it out straight down there. And I'd go bang, bang, bang, especially those first 20 minutes. I would batter them up front for the first 20 minutes. I know some people don't like the word batter. We're going to batter them up front for the first 20 minutes and just go, you know what? This is what it's like when you play men's rugby boys. We're not going to fart around. We're not going to mess about anymore. This is important now. And we're going to send you home. We're going to say, I would just get in their faces and I would be giving them the verbal. I'd be giving them the eyeball. I'd be doing absolutely everything to take them out of the game in that first 20 minutes. And I think that the bit after that is the last 20. If you take that out of them in the first 20, you, like I say, they're going to come at us, they've got everything in this game. And if you can take that out of them in the first 20, that makes your last 20 a lot, lot easier. And the bit that I think we're poor at in the last 20 is turning the screw, hammering the nail and just not giving them anything. Just doing ruck after ruck after ruck after ruck. We run out of people, stick it in touch 50 metres down the pitch and make them work from where they don't want to be. And every time they look up, the ball is flying 20 metres behind them, or it's the other side of the pitch, but they're going nowhere near it. I think we've got to be smart with this. And I don't care what kind of game we play. I really don't. I just want to see us take Australia out of this game. That's the question though, isn't it? Are we going to have the style that we saw against Fiji when they went all out attack, it was a little bit loose, or are we just going to revert the basics and go wall and ball 2.0? That's the question. I'm interested to see how we're going to approach this game. So how would you approach it? If you were Warren, how do you, what tactics do you send those boys out with on Saturday? Wall and ball. I know people don't like it. And it's really boring to watch, but we need to do what we're good at. And we are good at wall and ball. And that's the approach I would be taking. You are right about the last sort of 20 minutes of the game. We aren't very good at turning the screw. And it really doesn't help when players give away penalties and that needs to be knocked on the head. We cannot have the likes of, I'm not just singling it out, but I'm just using it as an example. We can't have Corey Tomchetty coming off the bench and being done a suck and given a yellow card. Because when that happens, you put the team right under pressure. That's what happened against Fiji. And it happened against Australia actually, when we played them in the autumn. If you will cast your mind back when Dave Brennan was coaching them and then Pivot for Wales. I was just a famous ball. Who brought the ball down? Remember Ryan Elias bringing the ball down, yellow card. Yeah. It went up from there. We cannot have a situation where someone does something really fucking stupid and puts us under pressure for the last 15, 20 minutes. We've got to be clinical. We've got to be smart. And I think there'll be a lot of kicking. And we've just got to be patient and we've got to be clinical. I don't think we're going to see what we saw in the first game against Fiji when we were playing a little bit too loose and running from our own 22. Then again, we might. I don't know. I'd be very surprised if you're going to run it from own 22 against Australia. I think Australia will like that, though I don't think they'll like a tight set piece game because we can target them in the scrum. Like I said, two bow and skelter is a big loss for them. I just think we're the better team. I know that's me being biased on the Welsh Rugby podcast. I generally think we are a better team than Australia and I think we should, should have the edge over them. I don't think we need to worry about pissing off our Australian listeners, James, to be honest. We do. Yeah, we've got, we've got listeners in Australia and New Zealand and Japan and all sorts of crazy places. But I don't, I don't think that they're going to be pissed off. I don't think there's a massive Australian crowd going, have you heard that bastard on the Rockpad go, I'll fucking have him when I see him. I just want to add, the important thing is, whether we go for Warren Ball or if we go for this more open attacking book plan, which I actually, I think Gareth is leaning towards just purely because we don't really have the players to go solidly into Warren Ball. The important thing, which is the thing that cost us in the Portugal game and towards the end of each game is accuracy. Whichever game we go for, everyone has to commit to 100% and that, and just be on it. And I think if you're, even if it's, even if it is just attacking, getting that wide, it's getting that pass where it needs to go. Like a lot of the pressure we had in the Fiji game wasn't the fact we tried to go wide, it was the fact that the pass was shit to go wide. You know, the issue with Portugal was we were making the line break and then the clear out wasn't accurate, which is again, a problem that's been with Worlds for that. So either we need to dial that back so that we can focus on accuracy and then speed up, or we go straight to kick, or, you know, we go for kicking to the goal. I do think for this one, we probably want to be more, either proper compete and have our best aerial. So if we're going to kick, if we're going to kick, then I'd start big air, I'd start Sanjay, have Adam and Diog, I think they're both better than, they're both better aerially than Zanet, and then have Zanet come on and, and then he can just do his thing at the end of the game. If we're going to go for more nice, intricate passing, we need to have Tompkins. I mean, I think Tompkins and North are starting anyway. I don't think either of the other two have done enough. I don't think they necessarily did anything wrong. I just don't see how it works. I don't see Johnny Williams and George North working. I don't see Johnny Williams and Grady working. And then I don't rate, I'm not sure Johnny Williams at 13, particularly if we haven't tried it. So I think it's got to be that. I mean, I mean, I am tempted to have Bigger on the bench and start Costello or Anscombe. It's whether or not Gatland team enough in Anscombe, I'd say it's a big ball. And it's whether or not Gatland trusts the number two guy. You know, that's me thinking purely at the end of defending a league, we might be needing to chase a game, in which case you want Costello there. I mean, I think the big thing is, I'd be tempted to drop, just take Lewis out of it. Take the risk with Henry Thomas, so that you start him on benching. Make sure that, make sure that scum is fallible. And I think maybe the same, so I can't believe I'm saying drop the card. First of all, I thought Corey Dalichowski actually was very good against Portugal when he came off. I thought he was great. I don't, I said, I think he gave that one stupid penalty against CJ. I don't think he's going to, you know, he should do it again. Gatland are tucking you out of the practice. I remember a time when Thomas Francis was first starting out and, you know, he seemed to give away one stupid penalty every game. And then all of a sudden, you know, and then you don't fast forward, you know, almost decades, you wouldn't think to drop him. I thought Francis proved a lot of people wrong. So I mean, it depends. I do feel like if Henry Thomas isn't fit for this game, you're basically paying for Georgia. I'm not so sure that works. The big one for me, loosehead is, do we start Nicky Smith? Do we bench Nicky Smith? Do we just, do we stick with Dalichowski and Gareth Thomas? I don't, I don't really know. At least I think Nicky Smith had a very good game. But Thomas, I don't know, Nicky Smith on the bench, personally. I like the idea of having Thomas, Nicky Smith there as a jack-of-all-trades. Because yeah, he's also, even if he doesn't make the turnover, he will slow it down. And I think that is something that we're really lacking. And he's better off the bench as well, I think, Nicky Smith, for Wales. I think he's still coming off. I think maybe with Dewey Lake as well, I think he might be better off the bench, because if you have to take Jack Morgan off, you've got a captain maybe to come on. Whereas Jack Morgan would have been playing, would have played three consecutive 80 minutes. Okay, gents, right. So we've, we've talked it to death. It's time to put your bollocks on the, on the chopper. Predictions for Wales-Australia? See, this is the nervous part. This is, this is, I don't know why everyone finds this bit so nervous. It's just a guess, but it's... I reckon Wales go up to an 18-point lead and then win by two. I thought you'd say Wales, didn't I? Yeah. So Wales by two for Harley. Jamie? Oh, you know, like I said, I think we should beat this Australian team. We're more than capable. I don't mean to say anything to fear, and yet the recent history between the teams does make me feel that, because we always seem to make it hard for ourselves against Australia. We haven't got a great record. Having said that, I am going to be positive, and I am going to go for Wales win by two. I'm going to go for Wales win by five points. Wales by five. So I was, I happened to stumble across a whole load of Australians. Facebook must be listening to me talking about stuff. So I had a whole load of Australian stuff up, and the Australian media is really going for Eddie Jones at the minute. Like proper, proper, get rid of him, we don't need him, blah, blah, blah, all of this kind of stuff. So I'm going to make a bold prediction that we absolutely destroy them. I think this will be one of those games, a bit like the game against England, 30 points to three, where the people in 10, 15 years' time go, ah yeah, but you remember that Australian game. Yeah. And I think we're really going to put them to the sword. From the first, you know, five, 10 minutes, we're going to take them apart, and everything they try is just going to go wrong. So I'm going to say Wales by 20. Bloody hell, 20? Yeah, Wales. I think we underestimate how bad a shape Australia are actually in mentally, and physically, and skill-wise. I think you saw in Eddie Jones's interview after the game against Fiji, where normally he's, you know, this was wrong, and this was wrong, and it's all everybody else's fault, and we're going to come back, and we're going to win the World Cup, and all of this kind of stuff. And he put his hands up, and he went, ah yeah, I got that wrong, that was me. Blame me, don't blame the players. So you always trust that. He takes flicks off the face. It's a well-known tactic, isn't it? Yeah, it's a well-known tactic. Yeah, but when he's been having a go at the press, and now the press are having a go at him, things are changing, and they're not right, and there's a lot of rumours in Australians. You can never trust an Australian, anyway. Let's be honest, you can never trust an Australian. But do you, do you have the same concerns as me, though, that although I think Wales will beat Australia, do you not have the same concerns that Eddie will have something up his sleeve? Because he's a very canny operator, Eddie, and he is a bullshitter, and I think he's got something planned, something he's not having, something's up his sleeve for this game, because like you said, this is do or die for Australia, and it is for Wales in many ways as well, because if we lose this game, and we get on the end of the wrong result, we're sweating going into that final week then, whereas if we win Australia, we know that we're pretty much through. So, this is an absolute must-win for Wales. We don't want to be sweating on the final weekend and worrying about bloody points difference and all this other stuff. We need to win, but I'm just concerned, I just think, I've got a feeling that Eddie's going to spring a surprise or two. What do you think? I think, fuck him. He can bring what he wants, he can do what he wants. I just think that there's a bit of steel in that senior team with the way the press are having a go at Wales, with all of that kind of stuff. The English really don't like the fact that we're playing okay and they're not. There's a lot of stuff coming our way. People seem to have forgotten that Scotland are even at the World Cup at the minute. So, yeah, I think all of that's playing into our favour, and I think this is the game where Australia fall apart and we, don't get me wrong, I don't think we're going to play interesting, exciting rugby. I think there'll be shitty passes that we kick through and Zamek runs 50 metres and scores. There'll be an interception when they're in hour 22 and we leg the length of the pitch and all of that kind of stuff. It's not going to be an exciting, interesting game, but they will make mistake after mistake after mistake, and we will absolutely ram a hot rod up their arse and send them back home. You won't get this analysis on ITV. So, what do you think of Eddie Jones? If you go and pick up some sleep while you speak to the press, smack him. You won't get that away on ITV. Maybe that's why they cancelled my contract. Maybe that's what it is. One thing I would, I do want to point out is, as I said, Gatlin will have seen a lot that he can target after watching that FIFA game, and I don't think Eddie will be able to fix it all. That line-out move, which I think is possibly potentially try the tournament from Portugal, Eddie will have seen that and gone, right, I've got some ideas now. He will have some ideas, and they do have them. The line-out's not the best, but I mean, it helps having six foot as me and Richie Arnold in the squad, who just has to stick his arm up. He's taller than most people's highest jumpers anyway. So, I think, you know, I think we do have to be careful when we start, if we concede any line-ups on our own line, and as I said, Nick White loves a 50-22, so our backfield coverage has got to be so much better than it was against Portugal. I know a lot of those are straight-off turnovers, but still, I think, we do need it. Anyway, I'm going back to my fucking predictions. We're going to run all over. Let's move on swiftly to the important bits of Fantasy League. Now, when we went into round two, I was top of our Fantasy League. There was a last-minute adjustment, and I got an extra five points, and the person who was in first lost 10 points, and I overtook him. I'm now in 39th position. I banked heavily on the New Zealand pack, doing more than I expected. I banked heavily on French backs, doing more than they expected. I took a punt on a couple of Samoans and a couple of Japanese. I fucked it up, basically. I took too many gambles. New Zealand and France shouldn't have been a gamble, but I should have just stuck to South Africans. So, anyway, top of the table now is Matthew Hinder on 1,354 points, then Morgan D. Capitano. I don't know if that's how you want to pronounce it, mate, but that's how I'm pronouncing it. Chris Roderick, who's been at the top quite a bit, in fourth, and then in ninth, Sid Dumperlode. I like the sound of that. Yeah, well done. Eleventh is the Flying Wedge. My boy is in 14th, and like I say, I'm down in fifth. I think the top of our slot is Carwyn, who's in 20th, which, yeah, I'm just going to guess this week. I think it's 17th, but yeah. I mean, I'm nowhere near. I did much better this round, but still. Yeah, that was crap. So, anyway, well done for those boys, because they saw something we didn't. So, anyway, Hair, Tass and Beard. I've got to say, it was an absolute classic week for Hair, Tass and Beard. The Fiji scrum ass that scored the try. What was his name? Harley, you can pronounce his name. What was his name? Kuribohli, I think, is how you pronounce it. Probably. I couldn't pronounce it. And then the first name, I think, for the variation on Simon, I follow. I think it's Simeone. Simeone. Again, please, please don't have a go at me for it. Please correct me. Tell me how I should be pronouncing it, and then I'll do better next time. But just on the hair standings, it's, I can't work out if it's a wide Mohican or a narrow mullet with the top half bleached, but like bleached all the way over the back and down the back. I mean, we're talking. Pepe Le Pew. Pepe Le Pew. Yes, definitely. The Fijian skunk. And when he scored his try, just watching his hair go over the line was superb. So, quite a lot of interesting takes from Simeones. And there's somebody else as well, which is basically bald all over and then a little circle down the back of the head there with a ponytail. I mean, who the fuck comes up with that? You know, fair play to you, because that takes a lot of effort to get that bad boy in. And I'm going to give a shout out as well to Jomala, because it's gone from mullet and it's shrunk inwards and inwards and inwards. And it's now like a Mohican. It's a lazy Mohican. So, yeah, fair play to that. And that Mohican has a tri assist. Yes, yes. So, my other favourite is the Japanese hooker. He's got like this shock. It looks like he's stuck his finger in a socket. The only way to describe it, I don't mean this is an insult, but it looks like a palm tree. But it's got so much hair there that he's got a bunch of them into pigtails on the side of his head. So, he's got these wild, crazy dreadlocks in pigtails that kind of like sprout out the side of his head. I mean, I was loving the hair. Not seeing too much in terms of tache and beard. I mean, Nick White is still up there in terms of taches. Not much really in beards. There's a lot of very well-kept beards and not seeing a Jake Ball-esque massive beard growth that will keep warm up winter beard yet. I may be wrong. Maybe we'll see that in the coming weeks. So, we're nearly done, gents. Just to say, our YouTube live actually went quite well once we managed to get the link working. And we missed the first bit because me and Harley were sitting there going, does this work? Can you go and check and see if this is working? So, it took us five minutes to work out that Raphael wasn't on the pitch and Jack Morgan was there. And we were like, that doesn't look like Raphael. And they said that while they were coming out and they announced it just before. And we were like, oh yeah, we were still shouting in at the bloody computer screen trying to make it work. So, we will do it again. So, Harley, you're going to be out in France for this one, aren't you? Yep, absolutely. And as we discovered on the live chat, Lee is literally the only person going to be left in Wales. I think there's me and some bloke from Buena Fustigia on a train going, where's everyone gone? But yeah, so we might have a crack at it. I might have a crack at the Wednesday game just for the laugh because I'll be on my own. May as well have a go. Other than this week? Yeah, yeah. I'll be around. What is the Wednesday game? It's Italy. That could be fun and actually is an incredibly important game for that ball. There we go. I know I don't want to sound like squeeze picking it up, but given how well you were playing against France seconds, I think Italy could come across that. And also we haven't got BC squared, which is something I'm really looking forward to seeing. I'm looking forward to seeing Italian moustache. Italians have got a reputation for facial hair. That's what I'm looking for. The only problem is the Italian squad has an average age of 12. Because they're only just getting into their ears. They're bumflut boys. Right. Okay. So that's us done for tonight, gents. Thankfully, we escaped the possibility of Carwyn getting home from training in time and joining us. We got away with that one, but he'll be back next week and we'll be back with full numbers. Will you be back in time next week, Guy? What do you find back? I find that Tuesday night. I went out on the Sunday and came back on the Tuesday, so I probably will not be here. Yay. I mean, yes. I can give you a voice note to tag on the end and you can just say, oh, well, he didn't know what you're talking about. That sounds like a politician to me. Well, you know, you can always get the other guy back on. Oh, right. On that note, gents, we will call it a night and I shall bid you all farewell. We shall do this again next week. Thank you for listening to The Wrap Podcast. We hope you enjoyed listening as much as we enjoyed recording it. Please do rate us and tell your friends that it really helps us grow and get better. We'll be back next week with more of the same. And until then, enjoy your rugby.