Ospreys Eyrie: It was going so well

The speakers discuss the recent Ospreys rugby game against the Bulls and reflect on the outcome. They acknowledge that while the Ospreys suffered a heavy defeat, they have had a successful season overall, surpassing expectations. They highlight the strength of the Bulls team and the performance of players like Willie Le Roux. They also mention the return of injured players and discuss the upcoming game against Leinster. Overall, they remain positive and hopeful for the team's future. So I'm going to read you a quote to start from Jack Nineveh, World Cup winning coach last year. In my head, I'm currently full on Ospreys. And I think that is exactly how I feel. And most people listening to this, the Ospreys RFE podcast, feel most the time. And indeed, while you're doing it, we're just here to fill your ears and indeed the rest of your head via your ears with Ospreys thoughts. I'm Robbie Osprey, whatever you want to call me, joined as ever by Yestin. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm all good. One thing I've just learned to notice from Zoom meetings is that when someone presses the Zoom meeting has been recorded, you can actually leave the meeting. That would be one horrific misclick instead of pressing OK next to it. But yeah, I'm all good. And yeah, that's it. I could have just tried to fill for an entire hour. It would be very awkward for the person that's just pressed record. And then, well, depending on the people that are in the meeting, I suppose. Yeah. Everyone just pressed the wrong button and left. Suddenly you drop right down. It's like the injury list building up. James is not here, but the baby has been delivered, is here with us, which is really exciting. Congratulations, mate, if you're listening back. Yeah, amazing, amazing news. And we don't have a third person joining us this week. It's just the two of us, ready to talk about the complete lack of Ospreys news, a little bit about the Bulls game that took place, and then the Leinster game that is coming up this very weekend. And also, I think it's probably high time for a good player. I think it's probably worth doing a good player. Yeah, everyone's had the week off of a good player. There is a bit of a coincidence by the fact that we weren't recording last week after the Bulls game, that the people just got busy, which was bad for us. And we weren't trying to avoid this rather hefty defeat. We just all got a bit busy. So, yeah, don't shoot me, please. Thank you. Shall we talk briefly about the Bulls game before we do? What little news there is. Because it didn't go according to plan, I think is fair to say. It stung, but also I feel like I'm not alone. I feel like we got over it quite quickly. You know, there's been a lot this season that has gone so much better than we expected. You know, you remember the start of the season when the Scots went out in the first two games of Africa, and they broadly went like that, and they were 60-odd-point hammerings. And there was a kind of vibe, well, this is how it's going to be for the Welsh regions, you know. And so to have gone out there and won two of the three games played in South Africa, to have beaten the other team that came over, two other teams that came over, and then to have had one game like that still feels like a pretty good result on the whole. Yeah. You know, you mentioned the Scarlets there. You know, they give 60-odd points against the Bulls. I think the Dragons lost 69-something to the Darts in November. That was a weird game that was, which was just topped off with a Can-Yuan just running in on the post from about 40-odd metres. And it kind of felt like those results was going to be what the Ospreys were going to have when they travelled out there. And, you know, the Stormers and the Bulls, two very good sides, and especially the Bulls after what everyone has seen over the last few weeks. And, yeah, you kind of felt like that both games out in South Africa were going to be, you know, if you could sneak a pointer in there, you'd be rather happy. But to come away from the tour with five points, you know, Leinster didn't do that. Yeah. You know, there's not many things that Welsh sides have got over Leinster, but the Ospreys managed to get a win over South Africa and Leinster didn't. OK, Munster are Munster. They'd like to win in South Africa for whatever reason. But, yeah, I think you kind of see what the Ospreys were trying to do in some elements. You know, when you give away two interceptions tries, like the way that they did, you thought that's unfortunate. And, you know, maybe on the positive spin of it, they were rather unfortunate not to get that four-try bonus point. On the negative spin of it, you've given away 60-odd points, which is a bit of a kick in the teeth. But on the balance of it, to get one win in South African league, one in Europe, and then two wins at home in the league, it's definitely what... Well, I certainly didn't expect that at the start of the season, so it's a definite positive. And I think going into that two-game tour, I think if we'd come out of it and we'd got a try bonus point in both games or a losing bonus point in one of them, you would have been happy with that. You know, if they'd got two or three points out of this tour, that would have been a good result. So to come home with five feels... And to have then been gussied as well, because the Bulls put out their strongest team, pretty much. You know, you had Ville La Rue, you had Keenan Moody, you had Kirtley Aaronson. You had players that were playing in a World Cup final a few months ago, starting for them. And they didn't underestimate us at all. And in some ways, when Toby Booth talked after that Stormers game about one of the aims of the season was to gain respect, they've very much done that. And sometimes gaining respect means they put out a bunch of World Cup winners and you lose by a big margin, rather than playing their B team and perhaps getting a bit closer. And that is just a stage on the journey, I guess, for this team, that they've got to kind of overcome. And I trust them to do that, you know? And I feel like this wasn't a game that is indicative of how this is going to go. I think it was a one-off match where some things didn't click. And they very easily could have got that bonus point. There was a couple of decisions to kick points that you question, maybe. And then there was obviously the two moments at the end. There was a Villier interception try, and then the kick that went dead from Owen Williams at the end, which could have been an extra point. It could have been an extra point on the table. It could have been really important, but it wasn't to be. There is a worry as well that they ate away at a points difference, which was looking pretty healthy, and now much less so. So you've got to hope maybe those Dragons and Cardiff games to be able to, you know, perhaps pick it up a bit and get it back into positive figures. Yeah. Weird one, because you kind of guffed at the time, but it didn't take long to get over it, I felt. Yeah, well, I was working at the Prince Felty Stadium. Oh, of course. On the day, because you had the World Italy Women's game, and you had the three women's finals in front of you in the afternoon and the evening. So I switched on my laptop and put on SOC clickers. I tend to do whenever I'm not at home, in front of the television. And I just switch it on, and I see Rhys Henry. The Osprey's building up two phases, and Rhys Henry gives an interception pass. And I go, right, there we are. That kind of sums up the afternoon. It doesn't look like it's gone to any sort of plan. And then I switch it off, and, you know, it's half-time when the games are kicked off. So brief little luck during one of the games. And I see that the Ospreys are building pressure inside the Bulls 22. And all of a sudden, here comes Willy LaRue and pinches another interception. And I thought, oh, right. That kind of sums up the afternoon just by that two minutes or so that I saw live. And then, well, I got over it Sunday morning. I just sat and watched the game. Because, you know, sides like the Bulls, you know, they are so powerful up front, but their backs do so much damage as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah, someone like Willy LaRue, someone like Moody. Yeah, just wasn't to be, I suppose. I did feel a bit cheated that I spent years championing and defending Willy LaRue. When he's had some... One of those players that is rated incredibly highly across the world, but some of his South African fans, his own fans, don't get him, you know. Those players come along every so often. And I spent a long time defending South African fans. No, this guy's brilliant. LaRue is brilliant. You need to rate him properly. Like Wardrugby asked me to do a team of the decade in 2020. And I had him in at fullback, you know. And him to then betray me like that, I felt so upset and hurt personally. Like he'd done it just to upset me. But, hey, he's brilliant. He's a brilliant player. And, yeah, no hard feelings. None held. Would have been a useful point, but I don't think it was a... It wasn't a must-win game. And we'd kind of come out of that last period better off. So, yeah. I feel like that sums up that game. Yeah. Yeah, I think it does. Oh, Rhys Henry's break, though, for the opening try. And the offload as well. And the offload. The two offloads that come following that is... Gorgeous. And Keelan's finish as well, also brilliant. Just picking up on the positives. But, yeah, always... Even within the games where they've struggled this season, there's always been really positive moments, you know. Like last season, there were still the Ulster and Munster away games where they were struggles and nothing really clicked. And even this season, when that's been the case, there's still been, you know, little shining moments. And Dewey Lake getting back as well on the fields was also fantastic to see. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure Jack Morgan is in the run, the warm-up as well. I saw a few warm-ups online. Obviously, great to see Dewey Lake back as well. So, yeah, they're all slowly coming back to play, which is, you know, a timely boost at the end of the season. Yeah. So, I think to lead on to news, there isn't much. But the big piece of news, I guess, we're largely expecting is there's a lot of talk around Jack Morgan being back this weekend to play Leinster potentially. Diospo said that was the target, that was the goal for him to come back. It sounds like he's going to be on track to at least make the bench, which would be really exciting and a really big boost going into those final few games and potentially the playoffs beyond that. Yeah, and it kind of makes my head go back to a game against Leinster from 2023, where Leinster had Van der Vleer on the bench. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Casually, as you like, just have James Ryan and Van der Vleer on the bench. And that game, they won by five points or something, and Hugo Keenan scored a try, which kind of swung momentum completely, and the Ospreys couldn't really get back into it. But it kind of feels like that in a way, to have that international experience from the bench. It could be similar with Derry Lake as well, maybe off the bench again. And, yeah, it's all positive to see the core captain from the last World Cup, many, a few months ago now, all back in detention. Yeah, and he is one of those players, like, I understand Wolverhampton is a bit like this, where there are some players who are brilliant international players who perhaps, when they come back into club rugby, it's more like a way of keeping them warm to go and play for Wales. And Jack Morgan's never been one like that. Ever since he got on that Wales team, and even since he's taken the captaincy, he's been brilliant. He's really stood up for the Ospreys. And just chatting to him on the sideline before that Munster game, he was so up for it and so excited about it. And he clearly loves this team and loves this group. And I'm really excited to see him play in the black shirt again, or white, as I'll probably be wearing on Saturday night. But, yeah, he's also, again, when he came back from that injury post-World Cup, he was brilliant. He came straight in against the Dragons off the bench and was one of the best players in what was an otherwise quite rough game. And the difference he can make, you know, instantly is huge. And I'm, yeah, really excited to see him back. Just a hero and a kind of, you know, favourite player, I think, to most of us who are, like Jack Nye, thinking about the Ospreys a lot. Yeah, it gives a massive selection headache for anyone who wants to pick a back row this week. Well, certainly Toby Booth, because you've got three excellent open sides. And, OK, Jack Morgan probably will be on the bench this week. But by the end of the season, once a bit of match fitness gets into him, you've got three very talented open side flankers there with the rest of the back row as well. And it certainly makes for an interesting selection. It'll be interesting to see what goes on in that back row this weekend. There is slightly less positive injury news, which is there is talk of Adam Baird having a knock. Not serious, but potentially, you know, being out this weekend, maybe the Dragons game as well, which wouldn't be great. It might mean James Ratty moving up into the second row and kind of allowing, you know, partnering with Hugh Sutton, sort of James Fender being back for those, hopefully the Cardiff game, possibly the Dragons. And that would alleviate some of that problem. But, yeah, again, Adam Baird would be a big loss considering Leinster are missing James Ryan, who just doesn't want it, just isn't interested. And so to not have, you know, the only like, look, there won't be a line in second row, as you correctly pointed out on Twitter, there won't be a line in second row playing if Adam Baird doesn't make it. So it would be a loss. Yeah, it would be a loss for all neutral supporters not having the right side in second row. With the either side, it would be rather upsetting. But, yeah, it's very rarely you see Adam Baird injured, isn't it? Yeah. It's one of those that, you know, you just, you always look in the team seats and you always expect to see him there. Well, especially for the Ospreys, you expect to see him in that starting 15, especially under Toby Booth. But, yeah, you know, it would be a shame. There's opportunities for other players to develop. You know, Rak has been brilliant this year, regardless of where he's played. And, you know, it would have been nicer if we had Fender back a week early, but it doesn't seem to be the case. That is a really good opportunity for Hugh Sutton if he gets a start, you know, a very tough place to go, admittedly, in Dublin. But, you know, one experience that would be for a young second row to go out there and play and start out in Dublin. Yeah. And what a game he had in several tough circumstances in the Stormers, you know, and to be able to back that up as well could be huge. Yeah. And, you know, even provided a jackal threat out of nowhere. Out of nowhere. Out in Cape Town. So, yeah, it's a brilliant opportunity for him. You know, if Rak joins him in our second row, then that'll be good to see. And then you're kind of looking at maybe a tip for Deeves in the back row with more risk. I feel like this game has Harry Deeves written all over it. This feels like a game for him to be scrappy and just kind of drag Leinster down from, you know, they'll be on the high after reaching a European final. And he'll be like, no, we're going to play this like it's a brewery field. We're going to play this, you know, my way. And, yeah, this feels like a Harry Deeves man of the match game to me. The Ospreys are going to be good. It feels like the kind of game where he will step up. Yes. Similar to a game a couple of seasons ago where the Ospreys lost, like, 29-7. I can't remember if Deeves started or came off the bench. I think he might have started because Dan Lydic came off the bench. It was like his first game back from a long-term injury. And, you know, Deeves was, you see a yellow cap blurring around the field everywhere. And it was kind of like one of his first starts after the sale game where he scored. And, yeah, you know, it's another really good opportunity for another young player. So, yeah, it'd be good to see him in the mix, I suppose. Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of someone else that's been sort of in the mix, but less so, the one big bit of Ospreys news this week is Toby Fricker, USA squad, which not worth, I think, any of us had down. Because when he signed, well, this time last year, and he came in, it was as an English winger who is Welsh qualified, having played in the premiership for a long time as an English qualified player. And you're like, oh, brilliant, he's qualified for Wales. You know, he had that one game against the Sharks. I thought he was great. I thought he was really good. Then picked up an injury, I think either towards the end of that game or in the week following and hasn't played since. And now we hear the news that out of nowhere he has been called up by the USA Eagles, their national team, to be in their wider, what, 54-man, I think, squad, which has come completely out of nowhere. There was talk around Jack Walsh potentially playing for the Eagles because he was born in the USA, as someone once said. But yeah, nothing on Toby Fricker yet. Out of nowhere, there he is in the Eagles squad. Yeah, it came as a bit of a surprise. I think everyone involved, well, probably a few people involved with the Ospreys as well, let alone any supporters that probably weren't expecting the news. It just came as a bit of a surprise. You know, you're thinking, alright, English winner, Welsh qualified, played a little bit of the Welsh premiership with Ebbw Vale before he went to Bristol. Now all of a sudden he's going to be within a shot of a USA squad, which is rather huge. Yeah. Would you be amazing for him? You know, I've said it before, I feel like this squad's been missing a kind of Jeff Hassler or Blaine Scully type tier two back that we can all get behind. And it's not coming the way I thought it was. But, you know, that kind of cult hero status potentially. There is the question, though, around him now being a non-Welsh qualified player. If he wins a cap, he suddenly adds into that count. And we are well below that count, you know, now that Pompote is qualified. There's some talk of Max Nagy probably isn't qualified, but he might be. So that's an unusual one. Jack Regan's now left. So who are we left with as non-Welsh qualified players? Will Hickey, Jack Walsh. Is that it? Yeah. And I guess it's then the boys are not alone, isn't it? Walshof isn't Welsh qualified. So he's gone now. So, yeah, Chris Moore, I guess, isn't Welsh qualified. Don Morris. I believe Don Morris has gone back to Sarsen's. Yeah, so I think it's just Chris Moore as well. I don't know that list. So I think probably one or two short in terms of the maximum amount that you could have in a squad. So, yeah, there's a really good opportunity for Frick. If he gets in there and gets a cap, that's quite cool. Reminds me a little bit of Hannah Dirksen in a way. It's either a non-capped USA game or something like that. Did he play them? I can't remember who or when it was, but it was a long time ago. So it kind of gives me a little bit of flashbacks to that. And his brother went on to play for the USA as well. Hannah Dirksen's, yeah, brother. Man, Hannah Dirksen. Oh, I can't wait for him to come up in more good players. What a player. What a guy. The other bit of, I guess, Osprey's related news that isn't really Osprey's news is Dragon's news. The Dragons have had a lot of news this week. It's been a really big week for the Dragons. They've made some really strong and interesting signings, some signings that are very encouraging. But they've made two in the backroom staff as well. One today they brought in from the World Trophy Union, your head of fitness. And most interestingly, yesterday, Bilo Teotia, Osprey's legend, one of the greats as a new defence coach. Yeah, and it came as a bit of a shock, I think, for quite a lot of people. Osprey's supporters, Dragon's supporters as well. A great back-rower for the Ospreys. During the Galactico era, he inspired quite a lot of players. You go around asking some of the younger players that were coming through at that time, they would have said, how much of an influence Teotia had. And it's a bit of an interesting one because I'm pretty sure his last role with Juana Pacifica was forwards coach. Oh, okay. I'd be wrong, but I'm convinced it was, unless I've told myself a really blatant lie. But yeah, but then again, Bilo Teotia is a defence coach. If your side's not making ridiculously brutal tackles, then is Bilo Teotia really your defence coach? Because you're thinking about it. That man could just hit people very hard. And the thought process that went through my head when I saw the announcement, what style are the Dragons going to turn up to next season? I just can't imagine it being like a drift defence and trying to soak up pressure. I'm just waiting for it to be full-on Springbok blitz. Just get out there and just stop that man. Just sometimes even getting up from the floor, let alone... Yeah. It feels almost less like a Springbok blitz and more like a fight in a pub car park. I'm expecting proper brutality from it. I'm really excited. I feel as an awful lot of us, probably most fans of the other three regions, look to the Dragons as our second team, as the other team we want to do well. I'd love the Oscars to finish top of the league. I'd love the Dragons to be second every season. And the thought of them being boosted, because I think they're seeing they're really needed this season. And if you look at their Connaught game this week, they were fantastic. And they would have deserved to win that game if they could have done us a favour. But at points, their defence wasn't there. And that's let them down a few times. And they've had... I think it's been a lot of kind of less organisation, more kind of the mental side, which I think Sean Edwards talked about a lot, it's the biggest job of a defence coach is to get the right mentality into them. And they'll sometimes, when they concede one try, their defence will then soften up on the next set of phases. And that is a mental issue. And Tiotir is the sort of guy who will terrify you into being that way. But also, I think he's probably a more three-dimensional coach. You know, he was, you mentioned, yeah, you're completely spot on. He was a forwards coach in past, and was even briefly forwards coach of the Japan national team as well. So it has a pretty strong CV. And it was also like, infamously around the time of Alan Clark was linked with the job before Sobu got it to be the So, again, has a strong CV, almost came back to Wales there. And yeah, I'm really excited to see what he can do with the team because it's what the Dragons need. It could really be something to turn him around. And hopefully, he can keep his soft spot for us when we visit Rodney Parade next season. Because the thought of the Dragons being as good as they always are when we turn up, but with an even better defence is terrifying. They'll probably just have Fiorentino just pop up in random places next season while the game's going on, just to put real fright into any away fan or player that's been up there. It's a really interesting tactic that I think the Dragons should really delve into a little bit more. You know, just pop him up, either on the big screen or wherever, or maybe just bottom of the terraces or something, and just get him, just eyeball the tech. Like, you would be making mistake after mistake if Filo Teotia was just looking at you. They can do the sort of loophole that Safafic used to do with Nainaba, where, because he was a qualified medic, they'd sometimes get him on as a medic to help with the defensive line. Just, like, get him on. Have him qualify as a referee and see if he can get away with it. Sneak him onto the pitch somehow. Other thing, right? Filo Teotia and Justin Tipric played together for the Ospreys, and Tipric's still going, and Filo's now 52 in defence coach, having had a long spell out in other countries, having coached in Japan, New Zealand, Australia. So, yeah, I mean, it just draws home how long a career Tipric's had. Yeah, and, you know, they'll probably bump into each other at some point next season, and there'll be some very interesting rugby discussion going on. That'd be something I'd really want to just eardrop in, just to see what rugby chat they would talk about. It could be about anything. That'd be amazing. The other point on Filo Teotia is he has two twin daughters who are now 16 and have, from what I understand, were very good netballers who have just taken up rugby, and were both born when he was at the Ospreys. So there's potentially, you know, again, the Ospreys women's team starting up, you've got the Welsh team as well, they're looking at, you know, development opportunities. Same thing with Cecilia Tew, who at 16, she moved from netball to rugby and was instantly brilliant at it. I don't know. There's potentially two twin Teotears who could pull on a different red shirt in the years to come, or, you know, if Lance Bradley gets his Ospreys women's team going, maybe they're the first people we target. I just think that's something that's flown under the radar a bit, of like, oh, that could be interesting, if the women's team could poach those two. Not to get too excited about two play pool, I haven't seen play rugby before, and I've barely played, but... Just writing that down, actually, having two Peralta and two Teotears in the same 15, you know, despite all the money and the contracts that England has currently got, that would be frightening to come up against France. Willis Hallihallo's daughters just start playing rugby as well, start the season, so check her in as well. That's a team, that's a team. Two Opalotu, and there's another two Opalotu coming through, so two Opalotus, two Teotears, and a Hallihallo. That is the Wales team I want to see. That'd be glorious. So, is that about all of the news? I think so, unless anyone's got anything. There's no news, but there is a rumour. That is the correct reaction. There's a lot of talk coming out of Exeter that Joe Hawkins has not settled, is not that happy, and is perhaps looking to leave. And there's further talk that he might be heading back to Wales. And I don't know where. We don't know where. James has shared literally just 10 minutes before we start recording that there's perhaps talk of him going to the Scarlets, which would be gutting if we'd... We never would have lost him to the Scarlets without him going to Exeter in between. But there we go. Would you welcome Joe Hawkins back, if he came back, having left last year? Well, first of all, it's pure speculation to begin with. Who knows? I might be just brought back to playing tricks again. Like he did last year, weirdly. But if that situation was to come, I think it's quite a bit of a tough one because you look at the fly-half chart. You've got someone like Owen William, Jack Walsh, Dan Edwards, Luke Scully. You're thinking there's not much room for them all. Yeah. You've got Julian Williams walking, can shift in if needed, but I'm seeing them all as the 13 at the minute, regardless of what shirt number they've both got on the back. At the moment. And you're thinking there might be scope for maybe one more there. But, you know, you're looking at the partnership with the Cheetahs as well. If you manage to tie in Ivaldi-Bosch for another few games every season, you're thinking, do we need another centre on top of that? It's kind of one way you'd be happy to see him back, but does he fit in realistically, especially with budget cuts coming down from £500 to £4.5 million, and especially with all the rumours coming in so late in the season as well, you kind of feel like everyone's nearly finalised the squads. If this came out in August or September, just as the season would get underway, you're thinking, oh, okay, you might be able to plan ahead a little bit. But with it coming so late in the season, there's only a couple of games left of the regular season, you're trying to think logistically. You're thinking as much as you'd like to have a homegrown player come back to win in the region or back to Wales, as a lot of Welsh rugby supporters apparently want nowadays. And it's just one of those where you think, does the numbers add up? And that's the only point that I've kind of got. But in terms of, but I want him back, I think it probably would be a really good addition and a little bit of versatility with someone playing 10-12 as well. Yeah, that's it, isn't it? It's, can you make the numbers work? Can you make the sums add up? Because he'd be very much welcome back. I think we had a very small squad and the sheer number of minutes that Kieran Williams and Owen Watkin have had to play this season. And I've heard that Boshoff coming in has been a huge relief to them, because suddenly only one of them has to play at a time. We're not flogging them constantly every game, as has been the case. They've played probably, without having checked this necessarily, but probably more minutes than any other centre combo in the league. It certainly felt that way, kind of casually watching. And I did a comparison of the minutes off-base players have played to Leinster, and it is across the board. We've got, I think, nine or 10 players that have played 1,000 plus minutes. And Leinster have two, I think it's Scrawley and Lama are the only ones in their squad this season. And yeah, it's kind of huge. We've got, yeah, both Keith and Watkin have played over 1,000 minutes this season, which having someone to alleviate that would be great. Having to say, you can also fill in at 10 if we need it would be a huge addition. And also, I think the interesting point on that is there was some talk when he left of, well, it'd be great for his development to go and play in a different league and play in a different environment and play in a team who wins and whatever. And actually, if he then comes back and he goes, well, no, the best place in my development is here at the Ospreys. That is a huge statement on how good a pathway that Booth and company and Ruddick and Mark Jones have built. And it might be big for keeping the likes of Jack Morgan and Dewey Lake and Morgan Morris and then this younger generation underneath the James Fenders and the Morgan Morses and so on of the world, Dan Edwards, when it comes to it, keeping them to stay and going, actually, we had one of our number go and it didn't work out. And there's kind of a living proof that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. And it feels like a really special environment from the outside and everything you hear from the inside. But if we see someone leave and go, oh, God, no, actually, this isn't, you know, it isn't all made of roses. I don't know. It could be a real boost for the Ospreys for a number of reasons if he came back, as you say, being a homegrown player that you want to keep hold of as many as possible. Yeah. And, you know, like we said, you know, there's a really good point about, you know, players going away to England and France, not settling in. And then, you know, it would be a big statement for them to come back to the club they were currently playing at. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be quite a big statement. You know, if you could drag Ethan Root back, maybe a year, that'd be nice. Yeah. He can, like, you know, play for England this summer and then come back in September. We'll give him that. We'll give him a little, like, swan song in the white shirt. They can go back together. There'll be a package deal. You know, they went together, they'll come back together. And then they bring Nicky Smith back straight afterwards. You know, he can have, like, one year in Leicester, knocking around, looking at the big clock tower they've got in the middle of town, I don't know, whatever else is going on there, that one statue. And then he can come back. We can just keep doing this, you know. Anyone that goes can come back immediately. So, I believe that's all the news covered in Record Time. Do you want to play Good Player? You may as well. They've done the news bit. We'll get into Good Player in, as I say, Record Time. So, we're away in Leinster this weekend and I think there is only two games, three games we could have done. But really, we've got to start at the beginning, haven't we? We've got to start as we need to go on. Yes, this is very much your pick of the two finals, the two infamous finals away in Leinster. This was your selection, the 2010 game, the Celtic League Grand Final, the Magnus League Grand Final in 2010. Yeah, and I'm not going to explain my third reasoning, but my first two was Tommy Bowe and Lee Burnt. So, you can make that amongst yourselves and why I'd certainly pick this one. And I really liked the way he kept from this season. I don't know why. Yeah. I just kind of preferred it, the 2012 one. So that might have had a swaying bias towards it as well. But yeah, we decided to go from the beginning. I think it'd make a bit more sense instead of going backwards, as much as we all love Josh Thomas and his heroics on that Friday night in Dublin. But we may as well go from the beginning. I remember this season so well. This was kind of my first season of being like a... old enough to really follow and really be into, you know, the Ospreys. Before that, I'd... My dad would tell me when they were playing, you know, I'd be like, oh, the Ospreys are on tonight. I'd be, oh, cool, I'll watch them then. And this was the year over that off-season, I was like, no, I'm going to follow all the transfers, I'm going to follow all the lead-in. It's the first year they signed Gerry Collins as well, so there's a big lead-in there. And I was so excited for the opening night of the season. And, yeah, every game, it was like what I built my week around, was, you know, they're playing Edinburgh this weekend, they're playing Ulster this weekend, they're playing whoever. And that was it. That was the thing I was so excited about. And so I remember every detail of this season. You know, you could pull up any game from this year and I'd be like, oh, no, I remember everything that happened. I could tell you every scorer. And it builds towards the finale, the game in Dublin, Ospreys 17, Leinster 12. Kind of came out of nowhere. Leinster were overwhelming favourites. And yet they came up short. What are your memories of this game? Just to pick up quickly before we get into the team. I was relatively young back around this period. I remember, I knew what rugby was. Obviously before the 2011 heartbreak from the World Cup. Yeah. So I just kind of blurred out a bit the seasons before. I remember, I vividly remember watching Ospreys London Irish in 2011. And I vividly remember my mother giving me updates about the 2012 final as well. Ah. Which was, which was rather cool because I vividly remember my mother coming to me and saying, they've scored a try and the conversion has gone above the posts. So that was rather cool. I briefly remember 2010. But I kind of got in, it was just maybe like a smidge before I kind of started to pick it up. But yeah. But really nice Leinster kit as well. I kind of like this one. Love the Leinster kit. A bit nostalgic. So I had some tidy players in that team as well. In fairness. Shall we start with the Leinster team then? We may as well. I know we do tend to like to go away side first, but it kind of doesn't really work if we do the winning side first, does it? So at fullback, Rob Carney. Good player. Great player. What, two Lions tours, was brilliant on the 2009 tour. Yeah, what a player. 14, Shane Horgan, Sharon Horgan's brother, which still feels so strange. Yeah, so it's like Leinster from that era. The back line is so similar. Yeah. There are the Sky Sports news of kind of, well, the skysports.com website has kind of had a bit of a printing error. It's got, well, I will go on to it later, but there's two number 10s in the side. Oh. And we'll get on to that further down the line. And they kind of switched around, so it looks like one of them is actually meant to be 11, but he's meant to be a 10. And the one that's a 10 would probably play very well at 10, but I'm pretty sure he started the day it was 11. This is, so I think one of maybe two Ospreys games that has a Wikipedia page. So I'm using that, which is always a novelty. We need Wikipedia pages on like Obscure Windover Officer. 13, right? He wasn't a bad player, this guy. Brian O'Driscoll. Yeah, good player. Yeah. Yeah, he's all right. Yeah. Obviously, something really controversial happened a couple of years later in a certain Lions tour. Yeah. But yeah. Whatever happened to him? You know, never filled his potential, did he? You know, never went very far. There's been a lot of tweets about him today comparing him with someone else from Wales. Shout out to Bob Davis, by the way. Great servant down west. There's been a lot of tweets between him and O'Driscoll with certain people saying O'Driscoll's better, certain people saying Foxy's better. I'm just going to sit on the fence for that one. I was having this conversation with Will in the office yesterday of just like the best, we're talking about Dupont and like the fact that since he went to sevens, he's added Jackal into his game. Because obviously, you know, he needed more strength than Antoine Dupont. And just being like, but the thing is, I've never seen a back of Jackals anywhere near as well as Brian O'Driscoll in the second half of his career. He was unbelievable at the breakdown. Plus he had all the kind of skill and guile and time on the ball that he always had. So yeah, amazing player. And his old mucker at 12, Gordon Darcy. The young, young heroes. Yeah. In Brian O'Driscoll. Do you remember the season? There was an all-time international period where Gordon Darcy grew a massive beard. And it was the best form of his life. That period of beard. And I'm glad he was clean shaven this day. 11th or the second 10, as you mentioned, Ethan Ofeua. Gorgeous player. They've got him at 10. I think I tweeted about him the other day. I've tweeted about him. I thought I was going to tweet about him and I didn't actually tweet about him. But yeah, Ethan Ofeua, brilliant player. One of those really annoying players I'd grown up thinking of. Lenzer is so good and he always plays every time I watch him play. But by the end of that, as I eventually grew up, I began to realise, oh, right, he's just very good at rugby, isn't he? Yeah. The plethora of positions he could play was just... Yeah. The biggest sign of respect for an opposition player in rugby for me is if my granddad knew who he was. And then second down, it's like if my dad knew, you know, if he was like, oh, he's a good... I remember him like every game, he goes, he's a good player, isn't he? And that was always like a sign of, you know, my dad's a terrible judge of character in many ways and we can leave everything else about him out. But it was always like, no, you knew he was good as a kid. It's like, you know, that always came up despite not knowing that many players in the opposition. It's like, no, this guy's good. This guy stands out. Yeah, I remember my dad, just doing like the first Super Rugby out of COVID. And I remember watching the Chiefs, obviously coached by Warren Gatlin at the time. Yeah. A certain Langton Bosch here was at Openside in their back row, like good player. Great player. Solid. And like a year or so comes down the line and I've gone up to visit my dad and I keep watching one of the Super Rugby highlights or one of the games in the morning. And he turns to me thinking, oh, you know, that Bosch, very good, isn't he? Or he says he's either that, he's either very good or bloody good. He does, you know, one of the two. And I was like, yeah, yeah, very good. Just watch him in the breakdown now. And then he just wins a turnover. And he's like, you know, he's like one of those, you're like, we both agree on a player we actually enjoy watching. But it's quite true. We've got a very long list of just Super Rugby players that we just enjoy seeing and watching. That's the thing, isn't it? That's the best thing is those, and especially back in, I always found back in the day, you know, when Super Rugby would be on as you wake up in the morning on a Saturday and you put it on, there's always those players you're sort of weirdly drawn to. Like Villiers-Leroux is always one for me. But there's so many of those like, yeah, like Kiwi fullbacks and so on. You're like, no, this kid's good. And then when they win their one all black cap, you're over the moon for them. At 10, a man whose name I'm only recently allowed to say, Johnny Sexton. I can't believe that you said it. I'm glad this Zoom meeting is recorded. I, look, that joke went on for like six years and towards the end of it, it was like, God, I can't wait for him to retire so I can retire the joke as well. And yeah, here we are. What a player. Impossible to like if you're not a Leinster fan, even if you're like a Leinster fan who loves him for Ireland. Just one of those players who is very like, I know if he was an Osprey, I'd love him. But he wasn't. So I don't, you know. And if you rattled him, you loved it as well. Yeah, yeah. Smidge frustrated over something. You're like, oh, yes, this is brilliant. Yeah, it was a battle of, you know, relatively young and inexperienced players. Yeah. Which gives a clue for the other side. But yeah, you know, this is a very young Jonathan Sexton. Fresh off screaming at Ronan Agara the year before. Yeah. And yes, it's rather cool looking back at all these old pictures. No, because you're right. It was sort of this Six Nations coming in when he first got the 10 jersey off Agara and they kind of chopped and changed a bit. But then he started the last few games and Twickenham and yeah. Yeah. So it's a big kind of season leading into him. Do you remember that the Ospreys used to do a season? The Ospreys used to do a thing around this season called Janto's Yak. I don't know if you remember this. There's clips of it on YouTube. Yeah. There's huge clips from Ospreys TV. Yeah. So they used to do a thing where Ian Evans, Janto, would interview other players in the squad. And he always asked them what came first, the chicken or the egg, which is like go to question. But they did one where he did like a video diary of them, you know, flying out and winning the league and everything around there. And there's a clip in that. Tommy Bowe has the camera and he sat next to Dan Bigger on the flight and he says to him, so Danny, obviously looking forward to playing as Johnny Sexton later today or tomorrow or whatever. And Bigger says, yeah, he's a great player. Really looking forward to that. And Bowe says, that's not what you're saying earlier. Why don't you tell them what you're saying 10 minutes ago? It's just like the two of them, you know, I think most rugby fans probably really dislike them both. Yeah. As someone that has, you know, seen Bigger from a very young age getting to the side that was initially local to me, like down the road, I could just go down and watch and, you know, seeing them develop up into a ridiculously good fly half who is still causing havoc in the top 14 somewhere. And now we've got Garbisi with him at Toulon, which is just like a passing of the torch more than for me. Yeah. In terms of favourite fly halves. But yeah, you know, like the two of them, him and Sexton, Bigger and Sexton, you know, two young players at the time and you're seeing them develop over time and just more people starting to hate them. And it's just brilliant. And speaking of brilliant moments for people who hate Jonathan Sexton, right? This game, 76 minutes. The game's on YouTube. It's worth skimming to. Sexton misses a kick from between the posts. They'll put them back for him for free. And it's a glorious moment. It's a brilliant moment. Bigger looks delighted when it misses. And Sexton does his little hand in hand, head in hand. We're moving on, right? Owen Redden at nine. Good player. Good player. Good player. He's won the Champions Cup with a couple of different clubs. So, of course. Yeah. Wasps and Leinster. So, good player. That's a great bit of trivia to come out for players that have won the Champions Cup in multiple teams. Will Skelton? Locked in my useless rugby information. That's all in my brain. Yeah. There's another. I'm sure there must be more. But yeah. They'll just come to us both and we'll talk about it. Yeah. I'm sure there must be more. But yeah. They'll just come to us both in the night. We'll just be screaming them. Yeah. We'll see a random WhatsApp message from you at 2am and you know why. Screaming. Yeah. Anyway, no. We'll move on. We'll move on. I won't let my brain get into that. Jamie Heeslip at eight. Good player. Solid. But he wouldn't be able to do what we're doing now, I suppose. Yeah. What happened to that podcast, Jamie? Can we just bring back that Paul? Let him Twitter again. I just want to see how different the results are now compared to what it was back then. Now that every professional rugby player has a podcast. Yeah. So I just want to see what we've learned. What the difference of taste of people have got over the years. Yeah. Fascinating kind of scientific study. I also, like, I always inexplicably hated Jamie Heeslip because he got picked over a falafel for the Lions and I was just like, no, I want Toby to be playing instead. And I've always tried, you know, generally on Lions tours, I try to not be one of those that gets really into like, no, I want my guys to play instead. But Toby felt like an exception and I was convinced he was the best out there. And so I always held that against Jamie Heeslip, but he was a great player. Shane Jennings, number seven and captain. Solid. Solid player. You're back to your point on Heeslip. My dad's a bit like that in terms of maybe a couple of years out of the tour, he's like, do I really want to support Owen Farrer on the Lions tour? And when you're laughing about that and he's thinking, I just can't get behind it, et cetera, et cetera. By the time the tour flies around, he proper gets into it. He'll be up for the midweek matches. He'll be like a hawk just sitting down in front of the tally just watching the tour. I think he does get behind at the end, but especially during the recent SA tour. It's one of those really weird ones. I think most rugby fans have, especially during Lions tours. He gets swept up in it. It's brilliant. That's the best thing about it. And again, a lot of these players coming straight off the Lions tour the previous year. Kevin McLaughlin at six, who I remember really well as an obscure player who'd won his first cap out of nowhere against Italy in the Six Nations where someone else had pulled, I think it was Stephen Ferris had pulled out injured like 10 minutes before kickoff, and McLaughlin came in for his first cap and not been on the bench. And yeah, I think he won like a handful more caps over the next few years. Good player. Decent player. Yeah, solid. He's been pretty solid back row, isn't he? It is. Good. Robust. Malcolm O'Kelly at lock. Decent player. He's alright. Yeah. You look at like the height of the Leinster side and you've got your sections, the driscolls, but this is just a core where there's really good and solid players. Yeah. Well, this has been with Leinster when they put their first out anyway. That's it. Another one in Nathan Himes. Again, lying the previous year for Scotland. Scored the decisive try in the Heineken Cup Final the following year. Yeah, good player. Was kind of a surprise signing at Leinster but went down really well. Yeah, you kind of always get one that goes to a, you know, maybe an Irish international going to Scotland or first or whatever. And you're thinking, that's really weird. And then he turned out to be really good. Yeah. Nathan Himes is exactly that. The Tideburner of his era. CJ Vanderlinde, who... I remember this player rather well. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was a big bloke. Huge bloke. Second podcast I've done talking about CJ Vanderlinde today. He played in the 2000 World Cup for the Pucks. Yeah, great player, great scrummager. Yeah, brutal guy. John Fogarty at Hooker. I can't remember much of him. Is now a scrum coach. And, yeah, has done... Was, yeah, solid player. Completely forgotten him. Or, you know, largely forgotten him as a player. But, yeah, is now the Ireland scrum coach. Was Leinster scrum coach before that. Warncat for Ireland in 2010. The summer tour that year. Came off the bench in that infamous game where they lost 66-0 to the All Blacks. You almost don't want a cap at that point. You tend to, like, especially when you see the scoreboard piling up, you're like, do I really want my cap now? But then again, if that's like your only cap, you're like, well, you just want to take the chance now. Yeah. One of those massive dilemmas that I'll never get because I couldn't catch a cold. Yeah, I could have played for... Yeah. Do I want a cap? Yes, but I want no one to ever ask when I won it. And then, right, and number one, an iconic, famous, kind of cult hero player, Stan Wright, who, I don't know if you remember Stan Wright at all, who was one of the very few Cook Island internationals to make it in pro rugby. He was an enormous, enormous guy. Was, yeah, kind of became a cult hero. It's very rare to have Cook Island players take off and have pro careers like that. I think it's him and Dave Rennie are like the two big names to come out of the Cook Islands. Yeah, nicknamed the Cookie Monster because of his, you know, being from the Cook Islands. Yeah. Was later this year, named the highest paid athlete of all time from the Cook Islands. Right. Must be doing something, I suppose. Yeah. Played six years at Leinster, then went to France where he bounced around, like, Stade, and then went into Pro D'Etat where he played out for another few years. Eventually retired in 2018. So, yeah, had a good, decent career. I always liked him. Always a lot of time for Stan Wright. And then, to quickly run through the bench, Rickard Strauss. Oh, good player. I remember him a little bit. Yeah. Briefly come in growing up, remember, he's a good player. Yeah, great player. Ian Healy, still going. Scrimmaging on both sides, you can't really complain about that nowadays, can you? No. And, like, what became the first player to ever win two games at Croke Park and the most capped Huntington Cup or Champions Cup player of all time the weekend. So, yeah, that's quite good going. Yeah. Done something right. Trevor Hogan, I have no memory of. I can't remember much of him. Stephen Keogh, no memory of. Paul O'Donoghue, I don't remember. There's only one, like, real standout that I know on this bench. Fergus McFadden, who was a good player. Yeah, really, yeah, solid. Like, one of those that never, like, broke into the first team. Yeah. Whenever he came in, he looked really reliable. Yeah, just, like, brilliant squad player. And then, Gervon Dempsey, finally, who, again, good player, had, like, at the end of his career, had been, like, a really solid, kind of, second choice for Ireland for a long time. And then was, yeah, kind of end of his career here. Shall we move on to the Ospreys team? Oh, and the coach by Michael Checker, as well, which is probably worth noting. Was this his last game before? Yeah. He went to... Because I think both finals represent the last games of Leinster coaches, I think. So I think... Oh, of course, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think this one's Checker's last game. But 2012 is Leo Cullen's last game as captain. Yeah. For Simon, I think. I could be wrong on that one again, but I think. Wow, yeah. It's really good how it's kind of, like, worked out at both finals as, like, an end of an era of some sort for either a coach or a captain. It's like how, you know, we got Ulf has changed the coach. We're just doing it here, just doing it ahead of time. So what we're doing now is we get coaches out and gone, never to be heard of again. Oh, yeah, no, so Joe Smith, Joe Smith came in after this. So yeah, this was the, yeah, this was his last game in charge before Joe Smith took over. And I think Smith's last game in charge might have been 2012 final before he left. Maybe a year out. He left in 2013, so it would have been the following season. Yeah. OK, yeah. So, close to. Yeah. So close to before he took over Ireland. So, the Ospreys team, starting a fullback, Lee Byrne. Was literally my favourite player growing up, Lee Byrne. I don't know what it is. I know everyone raves about other players in this team and other players in the World Squad. But yeah, I always had a bit of a soft spot for Lee Byrne at the time. Oh, I had a personal favourite when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I had a poster of Lee Byrne on my wall as a kid. Yeah. I was a big fan of Lee Byrne. Yeah. No, brilliant player. And in brilliant form at this time as well. Was mad at the match. Had a phenomenal game. Probably the best rugby in his career was this period. Yeah. What a player. Then, my favourite player of this period, again, Tommy Bowe on the wing. Loved him so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 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