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Nate and Shelby are back on their podcast discussing marriage. They talk about the importance of marriage and the societal expectations surrounding it. They also mention the significance of the wedding ceremony and how it is often focused on the bride. They discuss their own experiences with marriage and the challenges they faced. They agree that the covenant of marriage is more important than the ceremony itself. They also touch on the pride and accomplishment that comes with being married for a long time, but acknowledge that it doesn't always reflect the reality of the relationship. They emphasize that their views are based on their own experiences and not a blanket statement about all marriages. Yo, welcome to word of mouth podcast with Nate and Shelby. We are back in the building. Yes, and guess what? We want to put a part two on what we talked about in the previous podcast We were talking to people that were dating and we mentioned in that podcast at the beginning that we wanted to save the conversation from married people To another podcast. So this would be part two because you know, we're experts on marriage. Yeah. Yeah, we did We did so well ourselves, didn't we? She said we're experts Yeah, we are Yes, so we want to talk down in flames for real There's a married people or just about this married thing in this culture in this day and the importance of it the longevity the time the the time social constructs, oh That part what she said We just want to talk about all of it and and the importance of it because a lot of people Honestly, she have a lot of people are on the fence. I talked to people that say hey, man, I'm I'm getting married I just had a couple call me the other day. Can you marry us? Hmm, and I said sure absolutely, but I don't marry anyone unless I do three Sessions of counseling. I have to do three sessions account. Oh by all means, let's do it So, I mean, I'm good with it if you want to get married I'm good has nothing to do with my view of marriage I Think that Covenant is more important than presenting something before people Because at the end of the day those people are not gonna be there when you need them Hmm but I found that out the hard way. Yeah, but God will be there and God will and covenant includes him And it took me years to find it out. I Thought that all those people that was rude me on even the I think we call them bridesmaids Roomsman Yeah, I didn't get a call from them when all hail Berkley's Getting ready to go to the courthouse on it. I can't name other groups. I Mean my best friend he did, you know, he shares some stuff with me, but um, I Didn't see those people Yeah Saying hey, come on. Let's let's go out. Let's talk. Let's have a and they stood there with me, right, right? Did you have? Wow man We gonna dig in it. We're gonna dig in it. Let's talk about it. She had my first question. Yes Uh What is marriage to you Marriage to you Marriage to me is a worldly social construct that is out of a Ceremony That's officiated By a man Who gives you I guess legal rights to do certain things um Doesn't have the meaning it did to me when I actually participated in it. Mm-hmm Okay, so to me it's more of a ceremony for Everyone hoops and haulers and whatever gotcha And I was told when I did get married, especially the second time I was told that it was more about the woman Because that's her day. That's what I yeah That's the social construct down it's her day it's her day. Mm-hmm. We show up Even though I was a groom we just got to show up right but it's all about her, right? So make that make sense to me that you're entering a relationship That's supposed to be about both of you. But yet the first day of it. It's all about her Can all the work please break that down for me? I Think it goes back to the dowry situation and stuff like that when marriages were arranged and you had to have the family and you know Okay, everything and and you know, it went on for sometimes generations and families where they planned That kind of stuff I think that's kind of where it comes from because back in the day like she wasn't even really allowed to know who she was marrying really Mm-hmm. And so it kind of had to be about her because she's Signing up for something that she had no control over So she's literally submitting everything about herself to a man that she knows nothing about So I think that's where it comes from. But yeah, we've made it into this grandiose production. That's all about the girl Okay, and honestly chicks invest a lot of money into that day Yeah, and a lot of personal Getting themselves together and things like that Yeah, I agree. I agree just to give Point to that my tux was actually free Everybody else's and then um, I got a haircut Too much more than I had to pay for it Though that like I didn't spend nothing else on me Maybe What they call before you get married that little party that you have Bachelor party that part probably spent some money then but I'm sure you did Yeah that day man, it was just a suit the haircut Maybe some to pay some I didn't pay too much. But man, the women go through the works. I guess it's perfection that day and The same question to that is after that perfect day for you and it goes to crap in a year How do you feel? Just the woman because it's remember it's her day How do you feel when it goes to crap after five years? Do you remember the day? No No, if I'm completely honest I mean we had a pretty decent nice wedding and it flew by just the whole thing in itself that whole day We didn't even really get to stop and enjoy any of it, which I think is typical for those moments in life, but I I don't think I really ever thought about the marriage ceremony when the divorce was happening My goodness, whoo They'll marry people. Let's give a disclaimer show. Hmm. No, we're both With failures For married people, please understand Everything is opinions And we're not learning experience, yes, this is all learning experiences and we're just talking about it it's it in its entirety to give clarity to certain things so that People can get a better understanding And I'll keep saying to me covenant is more important than the ceremony I would agree absolutely, but that wasn't my thoughts prior To my divorce, but yes now since I've been out of my marriage, I definitely think covenant is much more important than The other I agree. I agree with that 100% What when when you were married Was it important for you to get those years under your belt Yeah, I think it was a testimony I Think we were married for 22 years and that was something to brag about to a certain degree. I remember just hoping to get to 20 Like can we just get there and literally our 20th anniversary was nothing like it was it was just another day And then it continued to go downhill I mean it was already going downhill the process had already started long before that But but yeah, I was hopeful because we had changed we'd uprooted everything in our lives to move to a different place and start kind of fresh and I was hopeful that that was going to change things But I was also I think in my gut knew it was not going to change a damn thing And actually things just progressively got worse Okay, do they call that a that year the 20th year? Is that a certain year? Do they call that something? Like going 25 is golden. Oh, that is Or maybe 50 maybe 25, I don't know Also, it is like every year is something. Yeah every year something, but I don't know what 21. Hmm. I Remember it was nothing to me Okay, so silver gold bronze, okay, oh All right, but I do think it and I will say that in nowadays I mean if we're talking about actual marriages that have been officiated and stuff like that It is a big accomplishment to in this society in this culture to stick with it Mm-hmm. I think it is like a badge of honor to be proud of hmm Okay, but there's a caveat that you It's a badge of honor if you're both Still in it to win it and you're both still Fighting for each other fighting alongside each other not with each other And you're not in complete misery Got it. Just holding on to it to try and get to the next year. Oh Whoo, I live that a few years some man you talking right? Okay, let me pull back so Before I go further you spoke about that that badge of honor that accomplishment I'm up. I'm gonna play advocate for a minute. Okay? When you reach that 20 year status, you know when you're telling someone hey I've been married for 20 years and he they kind of pull back and look at you different like wow You've been in this for 20 years. Um, do it make you feel pretty good and you say, you know, I've been doing this 20 years You know how when you say when you ask someone about their job, hey, I've been in law enforcement for you know Well over 25 years So is it does it make you feel better? I Think that yeah, it gives you a certain amount of pride But at the same time for me, it was like I know it just ain't gonna last much longer like Hold on Yeah, 20 years, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right So when you say badge of honor question badge of honor Accomplishment So I know people and I'll even use myself for an example. I know people Outside of well, let me start with me. I am I Went to Northern University, I have a degree and The degree that I have I'm not in the field in which my degree was So when you say Accomplishment like we went through the ceremony. I have the Captain gown. I have the pictures. I have green on the wall green on the wall, and it has nothing to do with my life today Yeah Is that how we're talking about this marriage thing? Like I set in for 20 years. I got the degree of Certificate on the wall. You can see there's nothing to do with my life It has nothing to do with my life today Is that how we looking at these? Accomplishments like as long as we got it on the wall as long as we got the t-shirt and the trophy to show for it Because there's nothing outside of that. So It's all about what other people see and not what we're feeling or what we're living. Is that what you're saying? Yes. Uh-huh. Yes, because I feel like I'm I may have lived my life To please others to please others for so many years. Yeah How did that benefit And I don't want to talk like, you know, like we can come from a position of bitter Betty's right because we didn't survive it our marriages didn't survive it, but I don't want to come from that position like I don't want people to think we're just Blanketing all marriages as being miserable because they're not no they really are man power to you and and God bless you Because if you're winning at it You're not going to win at it. You're not going to win at it. You're not going to win at it And God bless you because if you're winning at it, that's That's a big question. I want to ask though. Like what's the winning part? What's the part where we can find the win? Yeah, who who stands the test of time? Even though I got this is where I question myself by myself at times. I've Been divorced for quite a few years and I've said and asked myself They could you have just stick in there a little long. Can you have just really really gave? Another two three hundred to that thing and really worked at it because you said for better For worse for richer for poor and sickness and in health forsaking all others till death You said that those are man-made bound though Absolutely, but I said and looked at that woman and said that to her so she Believe me, I guess you can just say forever. That's all you got to say Yeah, the other stuff doesn't matter. So I start questioning myself like yeah Could I have done really just really buckled down and been like man? I gotta fight for this I got a fight for this But when you're the only one fighting it doesn't make a difference Because one person can't pull the weight of both now I don't know that you were the only one fighting or you would have been the only but I know from my experience There's no one is just one fight. You can't drag it. You can't drag it through. I agree It's like a boat with a row on it if one person And it goes down like a total yes And I'm glad so that's why we're giving clarity of we're not putting down the marriage aspect I got really want to know the difference of those that have stand the test of time and they're not, you know Just doing it or keeping it going just because They want people to see that they have this 20 year mark 30 year mark 40 year mark. I got you really loving that person still Do you have a desire relationships evolve, you know, they start out in the romantic honeymoon You know can't get enough of each other all that stuff and then it progresses and well And hopefully there's friendship in there and all that but you know It does evolve and it does change and all that as you come on bodies change, but yes, I get it It's not just about our bodies. But yeah, but our bodies do change And that can be a that can be a key factor, yeah, so that's why I wanted to challenge myself like cannot Could I have pushed harder? Could I have I mean, of course, we know the answer of just one person doing it ain't it ain't going It ain't gonna benefit but those people that are there for those amount of years and they still desire each other and they still love each other and they still outside of You know the status quo. They still have this from day one honeymoon Type of stage that's amazing. I Mean, I salute that. Yes, how do you do that and Express it in a way where others can see and want to gravitate to that Cuz honestly chef we're not seeing that not in this day and age That's why I want to talk about it here on this platform because we're not seeing that Yeah, it's not being seen from People look at actors people look at Politicians people look at sports Athletes and stuff like that. We're just not seeing it. Yeah For the most part, that's true So what what is it going to take? Should it be more about the ceremony or should it be more about covenant? I Definitely think it needs to be more about covenant and not so much about ceremony But you know in today's day and age then there's going to be though well you don't have the legal Backing you don't have the legal support if something happens health-wise to that person If some if they pass away, you don't you don't have any rights to what you guys created together Blah-blah-blah if you're not legally married if you're not legally bound to each other So that's where the covenant Isn't enough Whoa That's big so that that puts kind of a force The way I'm saying idle norm that you So if I love a person, so you love a person and you're not going to the route of the ceremony But do you love them enough to just make those? legalities The Do you do it because of the legalities? Especially if you love that person. I want to make sure that this person that I've been with for X amount of years I want if something was a habit to me. I want her taken care of right? So do I? Do I have to make her? Don't have to change your last name Give you an example. Um, the guy that played his name is Chadwick Boseman. He played Black Panther and Nobody know nobody knew that he was married before he died And so they thought that that was still his girlfriend, but she had to prove So much and I'm looking at all these different things that took place, but she had to prove so much To show everyone that she was actually married to this guy To receive that stuff, but he had been with her. I'm some amount of years So what you're saying is like so true and that kind of makes me feel like I'm forced now Because I love this person and I'm at something happened to me or her Then what right? I'm legally bound it to my kids, right? And there's insurance stuff, you know all that stuff that that plays into the legalities of it all. Mm-hmm It's important for some people You got to do it just because of those things you can move somebody 10 years man, you know You like man, I don't want you to and I'll have no rights they say hey, do we put a plug or don't put a plug in? You like well, yeah, and they're like I can't talk to you because you're why you're not So do we get married because of that some people have to make that consideration That's a huge huge thing right there It is a big deal It is a big deal That is I think I think some people think that there's a comfort in the actual Legal marriage because like that person can't leave you now, but they can go do whatever they want you may not know about it, but I'm not gonna stop somebody from being a shit. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think the paper ever really stopped anybody. No It's more of that's why I really really push covenant because covenant convicts and I said that again covenant convicts The covenant that God made when he sent his son his son will it once you accept him as your Lord and personal Savior That's conviction. And so you think twice before you do that thing? That's what covenant is to me So when I if I'm with a person and I'm in covenant with that person and I see the booty I Think twice because covenant What's that check in your spirit, yes, ma'am. Yeah, I do that the paper is like Don't be like that You would think that we won't be like that, but I mean some of us will think like that because So Mary Mary Mary people do you think right now that Sustaining a marriage in this culture can work Sustaining What do y'all think What about people that are already married can they I've seen I've even seen people 20 30 years 40 years in get a divorce Enough 17 years was enough for me. Like that's 17 don't that's a almost a human. Mm-hmm of my life Yeah, and you tell me he's got to go down drink So when you doing 20 to 40 50 man, that's a lot to just say hey now I'm good. I'm I'm out of this That's a lot. I think it speaks to The history and the events that have occurred in that marriage You're right, you're right. So with that Sheldon if I told you I want you to be my best woman in my man In my ceremony, you're gonna be the best woman I'll have a best man do the best woman Well, Kurt gonna be the best man. Wait a minute because I thought we weren't doing weddings if I decide to do the ceremony Be the best one if you want me to stand up there now, I don't know that your woman But I think that Let's just let's just Let's talk about the importance of covenant before we kind of tip into where that paper comes in because Covenant does establish longevity. I I Can't honestly say that a paper Legally binding you together is going to be something that'll keep you together Besides you saying you don't want to pay for a divorce or but that's okay so we have to separate the worldly from the spiritual because what I Think most people believe that the marriage which is a worldly situation the wedding Is going to keep them together Because they don't understand the significance which is placed on covenant So they're putting the significance on the actual marriage and not focused on the covenant that may already be there without the wedding ceremony I mean, I can't say if you're not in a covenant relationship or whatever you are That's between you and him and God, but are you and her? But I think that worldly wise people are focused and think that the wedding ceremony and the legalities of it do What the covenant should be focused on? Yeah, you're right Yeah, and so what do we do about that? And I mean you're making vows in front of God right in the actual ceremony. That's what you're supposed to be doing That's what you're supposed to be doing right, but you can make those vows about the wedding ceremony Hey, you're taking a word time. I was about so I want you to save yourself a whole lot of money You really can't you can stand before that but you don't have the legal support behind it Why would you need it? Well, we just talked about that the financial the health care the insurance stuff like that for a vow You need that for a vow. No, no, but I'm saying for the for the marriage if you need that in the marriage Oh, okay. Yeah, you don't need no your vow can be between you God and that person, right? Okay, okay, so you can you're telling me that And this is not a approval. We're not you know saying hey, you know Shelby said and she approved this message You're basically saying that you can have a vow setting with you and that Loved one that one that you love so much and y'all can go stand outside in the park and make vows to one another and Then go down to City Hall and sign some papers for legalities Sure, that's what you want to do so that that sounds like a better plan if you want to secure your future from a legal standpoint Yeah Good. I Mean, I don't see no other way if I want to really secure that from a legal standpoint That'd be the only way I do it. I'll be honest about it If I'm if I'm gonna say hey, you know what? Just because of the legal part and I want to make sure that you know your name and my name We in this thing paper standpoint. We got to tell everybody We'll go to City Hall Yeah, but okay, so I just have to say from my personal standpoint And I'm not convinced that I ever want to Be married quote-unquote again, but there's something about taking a man's name. That is very significant to me And I would want to take the man's name whoever I'm with Whether we're covenant or we're legally married So that's kind of a thing that you know That's part of the marriage ceremony or the wedding deal that I would still want to pursue Even if we were just doing a covenant situation, I Would want to take his name because I'm proud of him and I want to be Connected to him, but you can go into the worldly sense. Yeah, I know I'm just saying out loud while you're talking about names that just hit me That I would want to change my name really Cuz it wouldn't have you wouldn't have to do a ceremony to take a name. No, I know you just go to the courthouse changing it Mm-hmm But I when you said that it just struck me how important that is to me personally that is That is and I remember telling my youngest daughter. I remember telling her Baby, your name won't be my last name forever If you decide To be with someone else I get that part And I understand that you know for women that's major Mm-hmm, we're the carriers of the name of the woman you you take on that I Know you do That's part of the submission. Yeah, you take on that identity of that person, right? Wow, and you're saying you're connected to them. Oh, that's good in a very significant most significant manner And I will say that you know when I got divorced I did consider going back to my maiden name but the only reason I didn't was because of my children and I didn't want people being confused that those were my children because they Are my children, but they name have to change no just yours, right? but I didn't want the disconnect between people not knowing me prior to the marriage and Not knowing those are my kids because I changed my last name back Okay, because my kids are the most significant thing in my life, and I will not okay I got you. You know unless I get married again. Yeah So I didn't go back to my maiden name because I wanted People to know those are my kids Hmm, I never thought about that with my ex-wife I don't even know if she want to change her name or not, but I believe if eventually if she get married again Her name will change, but I didn't think about if she want to go back to a maiden That is an identity that you take on For the woman you take on that Wow never thought about that so marry people man. There's some benefits in this thing There are some benefits um last thing I want to ask Sheldon's uh Is it a deal-breaker When so many years have been established Like I've heard people especially men When they say if it get to a certain year, I'm not divorcing you Do you believe that that should be Established We've got to 20. That's something y'all have to agree on yourselves because I don't I Never I honestly if I'm honest I never ever ever ever expected myself to be a divorced person ever I was committed And I am fiercely loyal, and I rung every bell. I could ring to get the situation better So I never expected to go through a divorce I Probably would have if I had had that mindset I probably would have been one of those people that said after so long I'm not I'm just committed to this and it is what it is but Things had considerably gotten worse and I did not see there was no. Hope there was no hope left for me in that situation And we know what happens when hope is gone. Yeah Yeah So I think if you still have hope then yeah, you're still good, and you need to keep pursuing Key in everything That is the key I agree with that you just said something that we might have to wait to next podcast to talk about I Want to ask people especially like yourself? What does it mean? I've heard a phrase growing up called loyal to a fault Me I want to know what that mean I want to talk about it on this one I really really want to tap into that because you said fiercely loyal like you were loyal mm-hmm, and Nothing could change that. I want to talk about that, but I'm guessing in marriage Is that the type of loyalty that we're supposed to have? Anything else in that loyalty should you be loyal to your kids? Absolutely. What about loyal to your church? I think you should I honestly think you should if you're involved in a church. I think you should be loyal to your church Okay, one more. What about loyal to your job? I Well, I'm old school, so I think commitment is important to everything once you commit you're committed So loyalty and commitment kind of carries both the same way I think so I Think loyalty means more like you'll fight for it though. Like you're gonna fight for it Commitment means you're just you're there and you're gonna be consistent to me But loyalty is more fierce hmm Yeah Okay Good deal. Thank you. So You help me on this one it makes me think about just marriage period and I put in a lot of time I Want to say I was loyal The fierce loyal Maybe not because after a while I was like, yeah, I'm out In working them out and mentally me being out mentally It became more about just the preliminary if I can do the acts You were checked yeah check out yeah, and I don't think that's that's fair to anyone Ladies and gentlemen, please. That's not fair. That's not fair to anyone to check out and they don't know that you checked out That's bad. But at least you acknowledge it. I think there's a lot of people that Live that way and they don't acknowledge it. Yeah. Yeah, and I can admit that I didn't at first I checked out and I looked at her so many times wanting to tell her that I checked out and I didn't Hmm because I guess I didn't want to hurt her. Mm-hmm, but you're hurting her. Anyway, I was and hurt myself, too Yeah hindsight 2020 Yes, ma'am. So thank you show man. That was that was a that was an intense one to really talk about because We want married people to understand the importance of it should be covenant. Yeah, don't hang in there for a piece of paper Life is when that piece of paper burns Or You said those people that stood up there with you Are they still standing with you? They feel serious. They're supporting you This is a hard one, but uh, I'm glad we got through it so breathe Glad we talked about it anything you want to have it No, I think I think marriage or relationships whatever that last are amazing beautiful things I Appreciate them much more now than I did when I was in one. Mm-hmm So we can agree that what God has put together A Beautiful thing it's a beautiful thing from the words of Shelby. Hey, listen, this has been word of mouth podcast with Nate and Shelby, man We love you. We appreciate you with season You
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