PP2ndPod

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Today we discussed the second half of the book "The Best We Could Do"

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The podcast discusses the book "The Best We Could Do" and focuses on chapters 6, 7, and 8. They discuss the emotions and surprises in the chapters, as well as the artistic skills of the author. They also explore why the mother couldn't say certain things to her children and the impact of contradictions in the father's story. The group analyzes the power of images in chapter 7 and draw connections to the Vietnam War. They discuss the symbolism of colors and the structure of illustrations. They also ponder the idea of reinventing oneself in a refugee camp. Okay, so this is the, this is going to be the podcast, the second part of our podcast for the book, The Best We Could Do. How did everyone feel about this chapter, or these, the last few chapters? I felt like that it's kind of just heartwarming and kind of surprising in some places. Like, it isn't turning out as, like, what we'd expect. Yeah, especially in page 267, I wasn't expecting to see actual pictures that were kind of made in, like, Polaroid. I think that was, like, a really cool concept. Also, it just comes to show the author's artistic skills, kind of. Because she drew them very realistically, and I think we can really see that incorporated in her art. Especially seeing the actual pictures afterwards. And, yeah, I guess like Zoe said, it was heartwarming, but also, it's also, like, a pretty heavy topic as well. I think, for me, it just got heavier than, like, what I originally thought it would be. Because, like, remember before the podcast, it was really heavy, but, like, it just got worse. Like, I think it's probably because of the lore and stuff like that, and, like, more of the first-hand experiences. It's more detailed in that, so I think that's what made it more heavy. Yeah. Let's start talking about chapter 6. So, as Ma speaks to Thi's husband, Travis, Thi narrates for herself. She says that, I understand why it was easier for her not to tell me these things directly. And I did want to know, but it wasn't easy for me to swallow that my mother had been at her happiest without us. This is on page 191. Thank you. Why do you guys think that Ma couldn't say these things to her children? And, like, why would it have been easier for her to say them to her son-in-law? I can kind of answer. I can try to answer. I was thinking it was probably because she feels maybe it would be hurtful for her to say these things in front of her kids, because it's not really positive about her kids, so maybe she feels like it could hurt her kids' feelings. And then also, I think it's just easier to say things not to a person's face when you're talking about them, in a non-positive way, I guess. I think it's easier to say things to people that aren't that close. If they're close, they stay, like, forever, sort of-ish. But, like, if they aren't that close, it feels like, even if they know nothing much, there won't be a negative- like, even if there's a negative response, that person is important in your life. But, like, if you say it to somebody close and they have a negative response, the impact would be greater because, you know, you like them and all. I mean, Ma has been through a lot, so maybe that's why she said some of those words. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So, also on page 207, there's a quote that is, The contradiction in my father's story has troubled me for a long time. Why do you think- I was kind of curious, like, why- Wait, what? 207. Why couldn't she live with this contradiction? And could she learn to live with it? Okay, so why the contradiction is- What's a contradiction? Like, basically, um, when, like, the person's ideas, like, you know, go against one another. Like, they don't- they're not, like, together. They're, like- Okay. They're, like, um, fighting, like, some- Yeah. Wait, what page? True. True. Okay. Made, um, what do you call it? Made her feel, like, troubled just because, um, it feels like her father isn't telling her things. Like, you don't know what's true and what's false. And, um, it's- like, it makes her question, like, if her father was actually, like, saying the truth or just defending himself. Like, are you lying to me, sort of? Yeah. That's kind of, like, that's what I would say. That's what I was saying, but, like, you said it in a more utter way. Okay. So, um- And I think also in a lot of times when we're learning about war, if your country is the country that has participated in the war, you usually hear it from one side. Usually the countries would be, like, oh, people from our country are the good guys, and the people who are against our country are the bad guys. So for her to learn about more in-depth things about the war, especially since she's from that country, would kind of be a contradiction from all the things that she's heard ever since she was a kid. I think that was what- why it would trouble her a little as well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, also on pages 206, 208, and 209, there's images of Saigon ex- Excalation? How do I say that word? Oh, execution. Execution, yeah. Um, it's a Pulitzer Prize winning photograph with the fate of the executioner on page 208. Um, I think the power that this image had on America was, it was kind of showing how, how we were treated, like, we as Americans were, like, treating Vietnamese people, and how violent the whole war really was. Yeah. But there's, like, the Vietnamese people, like, or total Americans. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Vietnamese can be right in the war now. Yeah, true. Both sides obviously did lots of messed up things. Yeah. Okay, did anyone else have anything to say about chapter 6? What? Oh, just the, um, the wedding and the birth of the first child, like, I just felt like the author actually noted that. Like, it was sort of, um, sort of, like, hinted under what she was, like, saying, like, um, the relationship between her parents. Like, the wedding might not have been completely, like, just because of feelings. Yeah. That was what I thought. But, like, the author didn't really say it, as if, like, the author doesn't want to know either, yeah. Maybe she, like, brushed over the topic because she didn't really want to dive deep inside of that. Yeah. For chapter 7, a lot of this chapter is, like, narrated visually. Like, the photos, I feel like, are, they're speaking much more than the actual text in this chapter. Um, I thought that this was kind of because some of the emotions and the stuff that she was drawing, it was so hard, it was harder for her to tell. Tell it in words. Yeah, and, like, speak it. It was easier for her to draw it and write it down and show instead of tell. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, like, if you look at, like, page 214, you see all those, like, dead selfies on, like, the top corner, and, like, everybody kind of, like, get out of the, of the whatever kind of get out. And it's, like, you can't really use words to describe it. Yeah. And the expressions on the faces, it's, like, sometimes you just can't, like, can't describe someone's expression that well. But when you, like, draw it out, you can clearly see what expression, like, the people are having and how they're actually feeling. Hmm. Uh, a lot of this chapter also reminded me of Anne Frank. Kind of just because it was, like, escaping. Yeah. And I feel like it was kind of cool, not, not cool, but, like, it was interesting because it's the dynamic of, like, a family and their kids trying to escape this fate that a lot of people that they used, that they knew are now dead from, you know? Yeah. Does anyone else have anything to say about chapter seven? Uh, and maybe it's not just, like, about chapter seven, but I would say, like, um, I just noticed, to be honest. So, like, um, the pictures, they all have, like, three colors. It's always black, white, and red. And I feel like that symbolizes something. It feels like, it's more like black and white, like, saying how, like, you know, kind of gloomy. And red is just, like, you know, blood and war. And, like, since the whole story is actually a little bit toxic, it always revolves around war. So I think that's why they added the red, and it just gives, like, a creepy, and also, like, um, serious feeling to it. Also, the colors, like, the flag of Vietnam is red. Ah. Interesting. Alexandra. Now you're being a little expert. Okay, well, I also like the fact that in, so, most of the normal scenes where there are more dialogues and stuff, it's, like, in a very comic, comical structured way. So there are, like, boxes or rectangles and stuff. And for the scenes where you can actually see, where the author is focusing more on the scenery and, for example, war and stuff, it takes up, it could take up the whole page. Or sometimes there, she doesn't even try to do boxes anymore. It's all, like, blended into one. Oh, you're talking about the illustrations? Mm-mm. Like, these are all boxes, right? Two, one, nine. And then, for example, here, some of the images would pop out of the boxes that they were in. So there's, like, it's kind of, like, some pages have a lot of structure and some pages don't. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we can move on to chapter eight. This is on page 269. The refugee camp was also a place where many people, oh, this is a quote, 269. The refugee camp was also a place where many people reinvented themselves. I was, like, would you guys reinvent yourselves if you were in this situation? Or stick to who you are? That's quite a hard question. Yeah. Because I feel like none of us really have that type of experience. It's hard to say what we would do in certain situations. But in my opinion, I probably would. Just because of the fact that there's so much discrimination towards refugees and other things, I would probably describe myself as someone else. Unless I'm really, like, loyal to my country and I'm loyal to who, where I originated from and who I am, then I would probably stick to it. But in this case, in order to blend in, I would probably, like, change my name or change the way I, like, talk and stuff to get to know about the culture of the country that I'm moving to. Yeah. I feel like it's actually really hard to actually keep, like, your own, like, identity from, like, where you were in the past. Because, like, you want to survive in, like, an environment that's completely different. So the only thing you can do is actually just adapt to the environment and, like, get used to it. Like, copy what the other people are doing and stuff like that. I feel like I would try to change, but I'd ultimately fail. But it depends on how bad the thing is. But if it's really bad, then maybe I'll be, like, a little bit depressed and a little bit emo-ish. But, like, I don't think I can actually change because I think that's hard. It's really hard to change. So I would try, but I wouldn't succeed. I would try, fail, and then give up on changing. But, like, you have, like, the desire to change, but I just don't do it anymore. Yeah. I mean, I guess, just in and of itself, it's kind of hard. I mean, for my life's sake, yes, I will try to blend in. But I think I might fail because I don't have much to show. Yeah. I love my country. Yeah, I think it all kind of depends on the circumstance. And sometimes some countries are angry at other countries. So if you're in the country that's angry at your country, you don't want to be that ethnicity or from that country. So if I was in their position, I would probably try and go to France because they already spoke French. So that would be what I would try to do. On page 285, there's images in the top two panels. I was thinking about how different the clothing is, how different the, like, just vibe is of this American Vietnamese family and just the Vietnamese family that came to America just then. Yeah, I think it also has a lot to do with culture and also the environment. In Vietnam, it's really like a hot climate. Yeah. It's like humid. Yeah, it's like super hot. I think that's where the clothing originated from. And also, yeah. Yeah, you can clearly tell the differences between those two. I mean, like, looking at the shoes, like the sandals and, like, the sneakers, I can, like, see that there's this distinct cultural difference. Yeah. You guys can comment as time. Yeah, I thought it was just kind of cool how she really, the artist or the author, she really did a good job at showing the differences between, like, the families. Yeah, and I think you can kind of see a little bit of a discrimination in the dialogue. Yeah. Like, don't be such a refugee. Eat it in a bowl with some milk. About the cereal, eating the cereal out of that. I think she was kind of embarrassed that her cousins were acting that way, which I think technically you can't blame them, but also I could understand where she was coming from since their cultures are so different. I would also like to point out that everyone noticed, like, a little bit differently. Technically, the skin color is a little bit different. I think, like, that was done on purpose. Oh. Yeah. I didn't realize. I didn't notice that. And, like, if you go see, like, the Bond one, they'll wear the refugee thing. It's also, like, it's more of a small detail. Look at you, noticing the small things. Okay. Okay. Let's go to Chapter 9. So there's a quote on page 296, which is, My family kept fars records of our existence. I was kind of, like, I was kind of confused with that, and I didn't really. I wondered what they considered important enough to be inside of the brown folder, you know? But it seems that they put in awards and more academic, academic-related things, like more official documents instead of keeping memories, like photographs and stuff like that. I thought that was something. I don't know why people tend to keep their grades more. Yeah. Agent pages. Yeah, there's, like. It seems like such an agent thing to do. Yeah. At the same time, it's kind of cool. So awards are, like, basically their future. Because, like, they want their children to, like, of course have, like, a better future than they did. And education is just basically, like, I mean, in terms of, like, agents and thinking, education is, like, the most important thing ever. Like, if you have, like, if you don't do well in school, you're not going to have, like, a better future. So. Yeah. The important documents, like. I think it just seems important, yeah. But if I were to look back, like, for, like, the important collection, I wouldn't collect the awards necessarily. I'd be able to collect more of the photos. Because, like, I'd rather, like, if I grew up, I'd rather look at photos and, like, their style and, like, I don't know, past. And then, like, recall memories, like, oh, yeah, that's what happened. Instead of, like, the awards. Because, like, at the end of the day, the award didn't seem that important. Yeah. Yeah. I think especially with Asian parents or, like, a lot of parents in general, they correlate good grades and good colleges to success a little too much. So I think that's why they would keep pushing their children to aim for, like, a really, like, all to be academic achievers, et cetera. So, like, I feel like the pictures that they've taken of them having fun would be a better memory than that one time you got, like, an A plus or an excellent on your, like, math test or something. Yeah, yeah. So I think, yeah. Yeah, I mean, score isn't everything. There's also, like, you know, honesty, thinkers, caring. It's not just, like, academic. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's go to chapter 10. Chapter 10, they talk about how her mother called herself me, and it's a term used in the North. A lady here is a more elegant word for mother. We preferred the southern word ma, a jolly bright sound. We insisted fit her better. I was kind of thinking how, oh, that kind of relates to English, where it's, like, me and ma, but it's mother, mom, mommy, you know? Like, I feel like if I'm kind of in a bad mood... Mother sounds like really... Yeah, yeah. Like a horror movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'll call my mom. I'll call my mom if I'm, like, angry. I'll be like, okay, mother, you know? Like, but not like... I don't know. For me, I just don't want to use mother. It feels like, um, you know, horror movie stuff, and then it's, like, not actually the mom, but, like, the mother, and then, like... And then, like, there's, like, the knife and stuff like that. I don't know. I'm not getting fed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm getting... But, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just call my mom mommy in Spanish. It feels more distant. Mommy. It feels more distant when you do, like, a... Like, a very... Like, it's, like, so cold, like, mother. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of, like, I'm trying to imagine how the conversation would have went, like, yes, mother. I feel like I've heard you say that, though, as a joke to my mother. Uh... Not to my mom. Okay. Okay. Um, okay. So that's... I think that's literally all we have time for, but does anyone have closing thoughts about this book? I recommend everybody who, like, wants to think deeply about, like, war or family and how war could impact our lives, read this book. Yeah. Because it's impactful. I think her son, I think it was her son, should read the book. Hmm. Oh, my gosh. Like, the last few panels were just for him, and I think, like, yeah. Just read it. Yeah. I feel like the author did, like, a very good, like, I think her decision to make this a graphic novel instead of, like, an actual book of words was a very good decision, because a lot of the things inside this book, like, they can't be described in words. They have to, like, be the, like, they have to be shown instead of, like, described. So it was a really, I think, yeah. She made the right choice, like, making this a graphic novel. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's it for our first month of podcasting. Okay. Yay! Next book is going to be My Mom's Ordering You Guys All Amazon Coffees. What's the book called? For Us? Yeah. But it's a real book. No way. It's, like, it's an author that's coming. For Us? Yeah. Oh, question. Did we change seats in English? Yes. Let's go. Well, I mean, I have seats right now, but, like, For Us was just me, and then the rest, like, they were all on the other side of this.