Get the Sage & Candles it's Ouija Board Time

Amy and Rachel, two millennials, discuss their love for the creepy and spooky, as well as true crime. They talk about their topic of the day, Ouija boards, and share a recipe for a gin and tonic cocktail to go along with the Ouija experience. They discuss their personal experiences with Ouija boards and the history of spiritualism in America. They also delve into the origins of the Ouija board, including the story of how it got its name. They mention the patent application process and how the board's mystery added to its popularity. Hello, I'm Amy and I'm Rachel, and we're just two millennials who share passion for the creepy and the spooky, harbor a true love for true crime, and share our favorite spirits. So sit back, have a cocktail with two creepy ghouls. Yes. Nailed it. It's probably my best one yet. I know. So what's our topic today? So our topic is Ouija boards. To get more specific, it's get to staging candles. It's Ouija time. Yep. Ouija board time. Ouija board time. So what's the drink to go with a Ouija experience? Well, I did the gin and tonic with extra spirit. I have what I used. So I have an Empress gin. That's just the kind I have at this point. I really like it. It's very herbal, very flavorful. Plus it's a really pretty purple color. So you can't go wrong with that, right? Drinks are always better when they're pretty. Yeah. It tastes better too. It does, right? You just feel like a queen. So I have one and a half ounces of Empress gin. And then I added a half ounce of St. Germain elderflower liqueur. And I use elderflower tonic by, it's by the tree. I think it's Beaver Tree. That's a really good tonic water. And I did four ounces of that. A splash of sweetened lime juice. And mix that all over ice. Probably would be great if you put it in a shaker. That would be the best one. Instead of just, you could do it individually, like a nice pour into a glass with ice. But you could always put it in a shaker, make it extra, and then pour it out over ice. And then garnish with a lime wedge. Sounds lovely. Very refreshing. I love good lime. Yeah. I do too. I love drinks that are just filled with citrus. Fruit. Citrus. I think it was just so delicious. Especially in summertime. Yeah. And what better drink to have when you are summoning the spirit realm? Am I right? You are correct. Have you ever played with a Ouija board? I think I played with you with a Ouija board. Oh yeah, we did that one time that Halloween. Yeah, yeah. I was the one that was scared shitless that was just observing like, guys, I don't know if we should. Let's not do it. Other than that, have you ever played with a Ouija board? There was one other time too, whenever I was at a sleepover when I was a kid. And it was the same situation where pretty much like three of my friends were in the bedroom upstairs, one to play Ouija board, and me and this other girl, we were like, I'm good. And then we went to the other room. And then I later came back and said, well, did you talk to anybody? And my friend said, well, apparently there's a guy named Graham that lives in my house. Oh gosh, Graham. And I was like, okay, I'm officially never coming back here. But again, we had a good run. Yeah, that was terrifying me. Yeah, yeah. So, um, but we do have a little bit more on the Ouija board. Yes. The Ouija. The Ouija. The more I say it, the weirder it sounds. I read, um, it's kind of like we as in the yes for France and ja, like yes in German. Yeah, we'll get into that. We will do a deep dive into the name itself. But let's talk about spirit boards. All right. History. So picture it. February 1891. I'm there way back. Yeah. The first few advertisements started appearing in papers. Ouija, the wonderful talking board, boomed a Pittsburgh toy and novelty shop describing a magical device that answered questions about the past, present and future with marvelous accuracy and promised never failing amusement and recreation for all the classes. A link between the known and unknown, the material and immaterial. Another advertisement in New York newspaper declared it interesting and mysterious and testified as proven at patent office before it was allowed, which we'll get into. Price $1.50. Oh, I wish things were more that way. The Ouija board, in fact, came straight out of the American 19th century obsession with spiritualism, which we kind of delved into a little bit with like the ghost spirit photography. Exactly. The beliefs of the dead are able to communicate with the living. Spiritualism, which had been around for years in Europe, hit America hard in 1848 with the sudden promise of the Fox sisters, which we know a little bit about. This is a snippet for them. They claim to, those three girls, three sisters, claim to receive messages from spirits who like tapped on the walls and answers to questions, recreating the speed of channeling and parlors across the state. And spiritualism works for Americans. It was compatible with the Christian dogma, meaning one could hold a seance on Saturday night and have no qualms about going to church the next day. It was an acceptable, even wholesome activity to contact spirits at seances. Through automatic writing or table-turning parties in which participants would place their hands on a small table and watch it begin to shake and rattle while they all declared that they weren't moving it. I think we all have that friend in the group that claims that they're not doing it and it's like, I know you're doing it. The movement also offered solace in an era when the average lifespan was less than 50. Women died in childbirth, children died of disease, and men died in the war. Even Mary Tull Lincoln, wife of the venerable president, conducted seances in the White House after their 11-year-old son died of fever in 1862. During the Civil War, as we talked about earlier too, spiritualism gave adherence and drove people who were desperate to connect with loved ones that they had lost in the war and never came home. Yeah, I did read, I remember that spiritualism was very popular during the Civil War due to many loved ones who went off and just never returned and so I think a lot of that came out because the loved ones wanted connection and closure, if you will. In 1886, the fledgling Associated Press reported on a new phenomenon taking over spiritualist camps in Ohio, the Talking Board, as they called it. It was for all intents and purposes a Ouija board with letters, numbers, and a planchette-like device to point to them. The article went far and wide, but it was Charles Kennard of Baltimore, Maryland, who acted on it. In 1890, he pulled together a group of four other investors, Elijah Bond, who was a local attorney, and Colonel Washington Bowie, a surveyor, to start the Kennard Novelty Company to exclusively make and market these new Talking Boards. None of these men were spiritualists really, they were all just looking to get rich. Right. I mean, what better way to get rich than to have a product that gets people's emotions and wanting to connect with the dead spirits. But they didn't have the Ouija board yet. The Kennard Talking Board lacked a name. Contrary to popular belief, Ouija is not a combination of the French for yes, oui, and the German ja. Merck says, based on his research, which was the guy who was researching how the Ouija board came about, it was Bond's sister-in-law, Helen Peters, who supplied the now instantly recognizable handle. Sitting around the table, they asked the board what they should call it. Why not? That's a great idea. Nothing can go wrong. The name Ouija, O-U-I-J-A, came through, and when they asked what that meant, the board replied, good luck. You have to admit, it has a sense of humor. Yeah, eerie and cryptic, but for the fact that Peters acknowledged that she was wearing a locket bearing the picture of a woman, the name Ouija, above her head. Did you know that? I don't know if I said that. Because I think, wasn't the locket based on someone she admired and felt like a women's activist, Ouida? Yes, I'm getting to that. Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry. That's the story that emerged from the Ouija Sounders letters. It's very possible that the woman in the locket was famous author, popular woman, right activist, Ouida. Maybe I used the Ouija board. Helen Peters admired, and that Ouija was just a misreading of that. But would you rather have a Ouida or a Ouija board? Ouija just has more... It has more like, yeah. It has more chutzpah. So yes, those are like the two rumors about how Ouija came about, like the name. I like it. And according to Merck, the guy who researched the Ouija board, interviews with the descendants of the Ouija Sounders... Oh, wait, no. This is me talking about the patent, but you're going to get into that, so I'm going to skip that part, right? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Do you want to talk about that before I keep going, a little bit more about the history? Let me see. Or do you want me to finish? Well, I can just do a little bit on the story of the patent request. It's so fascinating. So, of course, according to interviews with the descendants of the Ouija Sounders in the original patent file itself, the story of the patent request was true, that if they couldn't prove the board worth, they would not receive their patent. Bond and Peter went to the patent office in Washington, where they filed for the application. The chief patent officer demanded a demonstration. If the board could correctly spell the chief officer's name, which Bond and Peter did not know, supposedly, he would proceed with their application. With that said, they all sat down, communicated with the spirit realm, and the planchette correctly spelled the chief's name. It's unclear if spirits helped with this or if Bond, as the patent attorney, actually knew the chief's name. But, yeah, that's how they got their patent, by playing with the board and proving it like, listen, we're going to get your name. Yeah. Scary. And then, on February 10, 1891, a very shaken up and frightened patent officer awarded Bond a patent for the new toy. Yep. The first patent does not explain how the board works. It just says it does work. Which, I mean, that's great. It would say that these were very shrewd businessmen. The less known about the board and how it worked, the mystery grew and the more people wanted one. It was lucrative and many believed in its powers. So, would you like to shed some more light on our history here? Yes. All right. So, obviously, they got the patent in 1891 or whatever, or 1892, or 1891, then it was distributed in 1891. So, and it was a moneymaker. It was a hit. By 1892, just a year later, the Kennard Novelty Company went from one factory in Baltimore to two in Baltimore, two in New York, two in Chicago, and one in London. It's quite logical then the board would find its greatest popularity in uncertain times when people hold fast to belief and look for answers from just about anywhere, especially cheap DIY oracles. The 1910s and 20s, so this is about 20 years later, 22 years later, with the devastation of World War I and the manic years of the Jazz Age and Prohibition, witnessed a surge in Ouija popularity yet again. It was so normal that in May of 1920, Norman Rockwell, illustrator of blissfully 20th century domesticity, depicted a man and a woman Ouija board on their knees communicating with beyond the cover on a Saturday evening post. I would love to have a picture of that framed. It's pretty cool. I looked it up. Did you look it up? Yeah. I think we know what our profiles are. Okay, thank you. It gives me a good idea for the photo. During the Great Depression, the Fold Company opened new factories to meet demand for the boards. Over five months in 1944, a single New York department store sold 50,000 of them. And this is right in the World War II. And then in 1967, the year after the Parker Brothers bought the game from the Fold Company, two million boards were sold, outselling Monopoly. The same year saw more American troops in Vietnam, and then also the race riots, and just everything happening. In the summer of love, yep, in San Francisco. Oh, my gosh. That makes me happy, though, because I do not like Monopoly. I hate Monopoly. Is it too intense? It just never ends. It doesn't. It's the game that never ends. And my friend Caitlin, she's just like, oh, are you kidding me? I love Monopoly. I'm right here liking it. No. No. I will never play Monopoly as long as I live. We would always just, as growing up, when me and my cousins were playing it one time, we just finally got to a point where we're like, I'm bored with this. I'm done. And we had been probably at it for a good two hours, which is amazing for four kids. Yeah, for real. But kind of like since then, it's still popular, but it's not ever really surged since the 60s, because I think it's the idea of spiritualism has kind of changed and not using a Ouija board to try to connect, if that makes sense. I mean, people still buy it because they have fun and enjoy it and like to do that sleepovers or slumber parties. But other than that, it's not had the resurgence really since then. Yeah, and we'll get into why that is, because I do have a little bit that may help. We'll go for it, because that was kind of my history on the Ouija board. Okay, well, I have some more little bits to add. Good. So, let me get, so we talked about that. I'm trying to like get it. Evening Post, Race Rides. So, Ouija stories started making debuts, you like that? Yeah, I do. In newspapers in 1920. National Wire Services reported that would-be crime solvers were turning to their Ouija for clues on the strange murder of New York City gambler Joseph Burton Elwell, which annoyed law enforcement. Can you imagine? Like, are you trying to take my job away? Yeah. And in 1921, the New York Times also reported that a woman in Chicago who was sent to a psychiatric hospital tried explaining to doctors that she was not manic, but the Ouija spirits had told her to leave her mother's dead body in the living room for 15 days before she buried her in the backyard. Oh, the spirits told her that? Yeah, the spirits told her that. And in 1930, newspapers reported that two women in Buffalo, New York murdered another woman, allegedly from the messages on the Ouija board. In 1941, a 23-year-old gas station employee from New Jersey told the Times that he enlisted in the Army because the Ouija board told him to. Oh, we got more here. I can't wait. In 1958, a Connecticut court decided not to honor the Ouija board will of Mrs. Helen Dow Peck, who left only 1,002 former servants and 152,000 to Mr. John Gate Forbes, a lucky but bodiless spirit who contacted her via the Ouija board. Are you serious? Yeah. So the court said no? Yeah, the court was like, no, we're not honoring that. Okay. No. Can you imagine that lucky spirit? Imagine me and the judge are like, oh my gosh. He's probably just like, really, this is what I'm wasting my time on. And the board also is said to have helped with inspiring writers. In 1916, Mrs. Pearl Curran made headlines when she wrote poems and stories she claimed to have been given to write from the spirit of a 17th century English woman called Patience Worth. The following year, Pearl's friend, Emily Grant Hutchings, Hutchings, yeah, claimed her book, Jack Heron, was communicated to her from Ouija by the late Samuel Clemens, also known as... I know that name. I'm going to give you a minute to think about it. Use the Ouija board to tell you. I don't have one. You should get a Ouija board app. They have those, you know. I'm not downloading a Ouija board app on my phone. Yeah, I know. I know who this is, but remind me, please. Mark Twain. Yeah. I wasn't going to ever come up with that, but I... But yeah. And Pearl was successful. Emily, not so much. Pulitzer Prize winning poet James Merrill did a 1982 epic Ouija-inspired poem, The Changing Light at Sandover. It won the National Book Critics Circle Award. It wasn't from the Ouija where he was instructed to write the poem, but just inspired by the Ouija board itself. And with the release of... Here's where we're going to get into why the hype about Ouija boards isn't so much as what it used to be. Oh, yeah. And so due to, with the release of The Exorcist, people changed their tune on boards due to the implication that the character, Regan, became possessed due to, what was it, due to her actually being, she was playing with a Ouija board initially. Oh, right. I've never seen The Exorcist, and I don't plan on it. Oh, I recommend it. It's a good one. No, it's terrifying looking. Well, they're making a sequel that's coming out this year, and I will need to see it, so you tough up. Okay. Though we're like, shut up, buttercup. I'll shut up. But yeah, so in that movie, Reg, if you haven't seen it, spoiler alert, but it is believed that she became possessed because she was playing with a Ouija board. I didn't realize that. I thought she just, the phrase was like, oh, she's been possessed. I don't know. It had to do with a Ouija board. Yeah, she was playing with it, like in the basement, in the laundry. It doesn't really spend a lot of time on it, but you can speculate. Like how she gets possessed. That's how she got possessed. Possessed. Okay. And so that's that. I mean, I'm going to go into the rules on Ouija board in a little bit, because I don't think she was following the rules. So now it became, it didn't become like a family entertaining thing. No. It became an evil thing. It became more of a, seen as a sinister tool of evil. It was seen as the devil's preferred method of communication. Oh, so now only evil people talk to us through the Ouija board and not loved ones. You know, evil people. And in 2001 in Alamogordo, Mexico, Ouija boards were burned in bonfires along with copies of Harry Potter and Disney's Snow White. What did Harry and Snow White do to you? Yeah, that's kind of weird. Yeah. That's one of my problems, guys. You need, you all need some help there. But anyway, scientists say that Ouija boards are actually powered by us. Because in 1852, physician and physiologist, physiologist, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, William Benjamin Carpenter published a report for the Royal Institution of Great Britain examining automatic muscular movements that take place without conscious will of the individual. And an example of this would be when you're watching a sad film like Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 and you start crying. Oh, yes. So, perfect example. I'm still in an emotional tailspin from that. So, um. Yeah, so crying during a sad film, perfect example. Okay. What's another one? Is that empathy? Well, that too. Well, yeah. You're right. What's another good example? Oh, stubbing your toe and going, ow. Okay. Right? That works, right? Sure. You know what I mean. I do. So, it takes a small muscular movement to get the planchette to spell out words, phrases, and with the player focused on the game, they believe in spirits more easily because of that unconscious movement of just kind of twirling this around. Yeah. They feel the spirit within. Exactly. So, I think that's where you get many cases of movements and such. But I will touch on, I know we kind of briefly went over spiritualism and why it was such a popular thing. So, I'm just going to see if I can add on to that because it was always, spiritualism was just like a way to reconnect, speaking to loved ones that died very tragically or were taken away. Kind of a coping mechanism because it wasn't seen as opening Pandora's box, so to speak. When you were playing with the Ouija board, you were just talking to them. And it was all just very innocent to you. And it was something to believe in. Yeah. And especially during that time, you were getting more forward thinking, thinking about science, evolution, everything like that. And you weren't punished for thinking outside the box. You know what I mean? True. Like you would have been in the later days for speaking your mind. Yeah. So, it was just something to believe in, something fun to go with. And so, spiritualism, you did have people coming out as mediums. You had spirit photography coming out of that. The Ouija board, spirit board is what it was initially called before they named it Ouija, as we discussed too. I do have a little history on spiritualism. Yeah, add to it. Okay. So, some of the foundational writing that would influence the 19th century spiritualists came from Immanuel Swedenborg. And he was alive from like the late 1600s to like the early to mid 1700s. And Franz Mesmer, maybe that's where mesmerize comes from, who knows, from the 1700s to the early 1800s. Swedenborg claimed to be able to communicate with the spirit world while awake. He would go into great detail regarding the structure of the spirit world and argued that spirits were intermediaries between God and humans. Mesmer was famous for being able to induce trans-like states in subjects, hence being mesmerized. Oh, I was right. Oh, good. While hypnotized, Mesmer claimed he could cause subjects to contact supernatural beings. Yet, I don't know, we don't have to go too much into them yet. It was the events on March 31st, 1848 that changed everything. The Fox sisters, Lee, Kate, and Margaret, claimed that they communicate with the spirits in Hydesville, New York. And so they became super, super famous. And then, of course, other people latched onto that. So, following the infamy of the Fox sisters, it became evident that seances and displays of spiritual communication would capture the minds of the public. Thus, these events became more popular forms of both entertainment and spiritual practice. Showmanship became an important characteristic of spiritualism, and more and more mediums began to surface, trying to outdo the competition by adding more flair and drama. We all love flair and drama and showmanship. Absolutely do. But it was later in the 20th century that spiritualism began to lose its traction. Literally everything you've said, so I'm not going to repeat it. But did you know that one of the death blows to spiritualism was that of, because of Harry Houdini? No, I don't. Well, maybe. Alright. Tell me more. So, after the death of his mother in 1920, Houdini met with several mediums in an attempt to contact her spirit. Houdini soon realized that these mediums were frauds and set out to publicly debunk their claims. Houdini would routinely expose mediums during his live shows and was a skeptical mouthpiece for newspapers and journals in America. Houdini would offer $10,000 to any psychic who could exhibit supernatural phenomenon that he could not replicate. Many tried, but no one ever claimed the prize. And then, before Houdini's death, and I think I kind of remember this in A Drunk Episode of History, he made a pact with his friends and family in what would turn out to be an incredible post-mortem practical joke. Houdini had told his wife, Bess, a secret word that was only known to them. Bess traveled the country challenging mediums to conjure her husband's spirit and revealed a secret word. Ten years later, and with no successful attempt, except for one fraudulent, correct guess, Bess retired her act. Houdini, in life and in death, had caused the public to question their credibility of mediumship and spiritualism as a movement. That's kind of, that's very interesting to me because, I mean, he initially came about being a magician, so... Yeah, but being a magician is, you know it's all fake, you know how to create the act, but it's an illusion. Magic, Rachel. It's an illusion. Magic. And so, he clearly wanted to, like, speak to his mother, and then he realized it was such a fraud, whereas for his work, it's not a fraud because they all know it, everyone knows, they just, the audience can't figure out how he does it, so it looks like magic. That makes me want to watch The Prestige. Oh, does it? I mean, it's good. It's interesting, though. Yeah. And it does ring a bell, and he was such a well-known act and person, I bet he did have some kind of big staple in getting spiritualism, like, to dwindle, but in 60 years, I'm pretty sure, even with or without his, it would have waned anyways, you know what I mean? Did we ever find out what the word was? No, it didn't say. Was it supercalifragilisticexpialidocious? He got it that way. That would be funny. Well, no, I just want to know what the word is. Or maybe it was something, like, fucking. Oh, okay. It was Roosevelt. Was that, like, a name of a child or anything? My favorite code word was Roosevelt, followed by the phrase answer, tell, pray, answer, look, tell, answer, answer, tell, a shorthand used between the two when they had been on stage together. In their code, it spelled believe. The code of promise was, as it turned out, final proof of the man's genius. Roosevelt. Mm-hmm. I mean, it is pretty. I'll say that. Well, I'm glad we know what the word is, because if we left off and we didn't get any clue, that wouldn't have helped with my. So in the end, their code should have said, like, Roosevelt, believe. Ooh. So there we go. Maybe we should try talking to Harry Houdini. Okay, get your Ouija board out. Let's go do it. I don't know. What are the rules with the Ouija board? Oh, yeah. I have a couple of things here I'm going to go over. So when you play Ouija, you should always, A, be respectful, just because, as mentioned before, Ouija board is not a game, and it should not be treated like one, as we know today. Even though it's sold as a toy. Yeah, even though it is sold as a toy, because I've seen it in toys when I was, like, going to Target. And, oh, by the way, I just want to, like, also say this. You know what's really fun to do? Go to Amazon and read the reviews for Ouija boards. Oh, really? It's so entertaining, because you hear, like, some genuinely creepy stories, I feel, and then you have some people who are like, I tried to find out where my remote was hidden. And it didn't tell me where it was. It's in a different dimension, or this. Like, it's very entertaining. So I highly recommend, if you're going to pull it up, and then we can, like, look at some. Yeah. Like, they're really funny. So, always be respectful, and if you don't get results right away, just be patient, and remember things will always happen at your pace, even though you are the one initiating the contact. The spirit will ultimately be in charge. Two, do not believe everything a spirit says. Spirits are known for being mischievous in nature, keeping in mind they may not be telling you the truth, or it may be something else. Never use a Ouija board alone. I want to, like, really say that. Use two or more people. Never do it alone. Never alone? Never alone. Find the right people to join, help you communicate with the spirit, and I'm going to see if it says, like, any reasons why, just more successful experiences, but a well-rounded and serious team will put the spirit at ease and help in summoning it. And so, just don't do it alone. Think of good questions to ask the spirit board, regardless of what type of entity you have or are planning to make contact with. Always be mindful of what you ask. Try not to, let's see, do not ask questions about, that you do not want to know the answer to, or are not meant to know. I think, believe they say, topics to stay away from when you're playing Ouija are, when will I or someone else die? Never ask that. Will I get sick? Am I sick now? Are you an evil spirit? How did you die? Can I talk to a demon? Do you want to hurt me? Can you possess me? Which, why? Why? Why, sir? Why, madam? In addition, just being mindful of questions to ask, do not leave the planchette on the board. Do not do that. No. Do not do that. If you've ever seen paranormal activity, you want to know what happened? I don't remember. The board went up in flames. Oh. And it moved us out, and then it went up in flames. Don't do that. Just, because then you're like leaving the portal opened. So, what is it? It's being known that in the paranormal community, that you should never leave the planchette unattended on the board. Always be sure to remove the planchette, because it is not safe to leave there. Leaving the planchette on the board is considered a bad luck and dangerous. Ugh. So, don't do it. Do not use a Ouija board in your home. So, go to some place, because if you let something in that you can't get out, then it's stuck in your home, and it will, like, stay. Ugh. What's that? What am I looking for? Latch on. So, go somewhere with a positive atmosphere, maybe a happy park. Or, yeah, I would do, like, a park. Or a happy outdoors area. And light. And light, yeah. Or not. Maybe dusk. With some candles. Dusk, okay. Sage. Sage, yes. Oh, when in doubt, sage that shit out. Always have a good, clear atmosphere. Very positive. Don't bring anything negative into the space. Choose a group leader, which makes me think of, like, a group children activity. Choose a group leader, or, like, a group project. That's what I'm thinking about. Oh, okay. In school, whenever you had to, like, get in groups of five and be like, okay, who's the leader of this group? That's going to be in charge of kind of dictating who's going to do what in the report. Mm-hmm. Choosing the right people will be in charge of doing talking, asking the questions. And especially if you have a large group of people, they kind of help dictate things. Oh, take notes. Take notes. With any type of paranormal investigation, documenting your findings is very important. Oh, true. True. This is just one rule sheet, guys. I'm going to go over another one. Have a positive state of mind. Just saying, you know, don't bring anything negative. Just have a positive mind, open heart kind of thing, which makes sense. You wouldn't want to go into something as a Debbie Downer. No, you wouldn't. Choose the location wisely. We talked about that. Somewhere that has, like, happiness, evokes, like, good feelings. And let's see. Do not burn the Ouija board. Oh, don't? Yeah, don't do it. I saw a review that said if a bad spirit comes to you, you're supposed to burn it. So don't burn it. See, I've heard, like, conflicting things. Some say, like, do not burn it. What you can do is hide it to where nobody can get in contact with it. And keep the plong shit away from the board. You know what I mean? Keep it away. So, like, hide the board somewhere. I guess put it in a suitcase and leave the area. Yeah, and lock it. And then take the other one to, like, a sea, to the Mediterranean, to go in the ocean with the mummies. Okay. Always say goodbye. That's very important, too. Anytime you're done with a session, you always say goodbye, because that shuts down any kind of connection portal, if you will. And goodbye closes that portal? Yeah, it does. It closes that connection between you and the spirit realm. So, and then another thing I have, it reviewed the same thing. Never use a board by yourself. Ouija must be closed after you, saying goodbye. And then a Ouija board must be disposed of properly. So, this one, it just says, don't, I don't think burning it, just separating them and never opening it, like, never, like, separating them, hiding them to where nobody can never get to them ever again. Okay. Never use the Ouija board in your home. We went over that one. And never use the Ouija board when you're ill or in a debilitated state. So, drunk? Maybe not. I'm going to say because you tend to do stupid things. Yeah. So, like, probably an example. Not the same thing, but do you ever watch The Evil Dead? You know I didn't. What about Ash versus The Evil Dead? You know I didn't. Okay, well, I think one in the show, at least, that I watched, he was, they were smoking pot, and then they started reading from the evil book, and of course, shit, that's loose. So, you want a clear head, clear mind, and you also just want to be in just your best shape. Okay. So, ho, don't do it if you don't want to do it. I don't. And then, it's funny, there is also a wiki how, and it has pictures, and so this girl's, like, saging this thing. Oh, okay, gotcha. Just being very, like, open-minded and very good, but that's pretty much the rules, and they, I mean, some of them may be a little bit different, but they all have, like, definitely the big ones to remember are, I think, coming into it with a positive mindset. Say goodbye. Asking, like, wording your questions, at least, you know, don't ask about anything, like, evil, not evil, but, like, malicious, I guess. Like, the death question, which, why would you want to? And also saying goodbye and just don't do it in your home. Not a house. Not a safe-in-case. I like it. Have people you can trust. So, if someone were to offer you to do a seance, would you say yes to it? I don't know. I, it's weird, because I toe the line, because I'm, like, listen, I don't want to let anything in that, I want to open Pandora's box. Yeah. That's my thing, and I don't want to let something in that needs to stay in the box. Keep it there. Yeah. It is kind of, um, I also have, like, mixed emotions with, like, archaeological digs with, like, mummies. I love that stuff. Yeah. Especially since we talked about it in our last episode. But I also think, all right, would you want someone to dig up your corpse? No. I mean, unless they're trying to, like, find out who killed me. Like, one of those, I've been watching a lot of, like, cold case files, where they dig up the body and they try to find, like, old DNA. By this point in the episode, they should have gotten all the DNA from me. I mean, you would think they would have, because they would have gone over your body and stuff. Yeah. But I'm just thinking about persisting. Well, that point I'm in. I don't know. I also want to be cremated, so. I'm, like, put me in the grunt. Like, not me now. Not me now. Oh, okay. Oh, my God. That's terrifying. At least wait until I don't have a pulse, please. God, being buried alive, that opens up another floodgate. That's terrifying. Oh, God. And people even do that. I know, right? We're talking about Ouija boards and this. But I have a sage candle blowing. Oh, good. Yeah, you do. Thank you. I mean, if you're... Listen, folks, have your sage candle burning. I do have a sage stick upstairs. It smells like tea to me, but... Oh, nice. I think my mom's coming. She's like, what the hell is that? I like the smell of tea. To me, it doesn't smell bad, but... Also, have your gin cocktail. Yeah, that'll make you feel more relaxed. That'll put you in the spirit in a good way. But I don't know. If I were to ever do a Ouija board thing... And it's funny, because my mom had a Ouija board when she was a kid. Yeah, did she have any stories? I don't think so, because I mean, I don't think she was really into it. I think she got it as like a Christmas gift. Which is funny, because her family, they were very Catholic. Religious, yeah. Kind of like, that's a weird gift to give a kid. But like I said, maybe it was seen as like a positive thing. So I think that also is true, because at that point, you know, you didn't have the exorcist that flipped the script on everything. You didn't have any horror movies like we do today. So, yeah. Especially the good old days, where there were no super horror films all the time to keep me up at night. Not that I watched them, but... I was going to say, you don't even watch... The one time I make you go see It. Oh, yeah. Never let that down. That was terrifying. To me... Did we do the sequel too? Yeah, we did. And you were like, that was nice. That was better. It was. We had sandwiches then. We did. Because that was a long movie, but it's funny now. But yeah, just... So what movie or show recommendations do you have? Oh, Mother Butler. I just have a... Okay. Here it is. So I'm going to start with... It's not really in any particular order, but we did talk about The Exorcist, which I recommend that movie. Everybody should watch it at least once in their life. I know it's supposed to be a very well done movie. It isn't. To me, it's not like all... I mean, it is scary, and it's... You know, it does... It's very shocking, especially for the time period. It came out in the 70s. But it's also filled with a lot of drama. Would The Poltergeist fit in this area? No, I don't think so. Okay. They didn't have a Ouija board. Okay. And then one of my favorite shows, Downton Abbey, which I need to finish because I never did, but my favorite episode in season 2 was episode 9. They did it in season 2? They did. It was a Christmas episode. I hope they do it this time. Did they do it in the house? They did do it in the house this service day, but it was really sweet. It wasn't because... It wasn't scary. No, it wasn't scary, but I think it freaked out one little girl, but... Oh, sorry, Winky. But I love that episode because it's a very positive spiritual connection. So season 2, episode 9, Downton Abbey. I watched Ouija board Origins of Evil. I watched that. What? What? You really just watched Origins of Evil? Origins of Evil. When did this come out? I think it came out maybe a few years ago. In 2016. 2016, right? Oh, my gosh. It looks terrifying. It's on Netflix. Yeah, I watched it. It's got an 83% on Rotten Tomatoes, though. It was okay. I mean, if you want something Ouija board related. It's done by the guy who's done all those... Am I explaining it again? I know the name. Oh! He's done The Haunting of Wye Manor and The Haunting of Hill House and Midnight Mass. Oh, those are all good. Yeah, I know. Those are all so good. I really like all those. And I really like the new one he did, too. Oh, what's it? The Midnight Club? The Midnight Club. That, actually, I liked more than the Midnight Club. Oh, wait. That one was very... I think I started the first episode, but it was a little too gory, so I kind of stopped it. And you were telling me about that, too. It's a little different. Yeah, it was very different. That's why I like The Haunting of Hill House and Wye Manor. It's a little more subtle and a little more eerie. It's not as gory, if you will. No, I can agree with this, but I watched that. And then the others, I'm going to recommend that. And we have Nicole Kidman. I've heard of it. I think I've been spoiled about the ending, but I don't think I've seen it. It's actually very atmospheric, and I haven't watched it in a long time, but I do... That made me think... This topic made me think of that film because... Okay, so go ahead. It does have some spiritual elements to it. I don't know when else it will come up. I don't think it really counts because I don't think a Ouija board was used, but a medium was used. But can we talk about the maybe ghost? Oh. Whoopi Goldberg. Yeah. I think that counts. You're thinking about the pottery scene. No, I'm thinking about when all the spirits come into Whoopi Goldberg, and she starts acting like all these different people. I love her in this movie. I love when she goes to the bank with a check in her hand. It's such a good movie. And he finds his killer. Or he helps them find his killer. Didn't Whoopi win an Oscar for that? I think she did, actually. I think she won for that role. I think other people were nominated. Oh, wait. I've got to spell ghost right. I'm just thinking about Making Potter with Patrick Swayze. I mean, yeah. RIP. I don't know. Unchained Melody. I'm not playing in the background. Maybe. I think. I don't know. But it's such a great movie. I haven't watched that in so long. So long. Oops. But it has spiritualist moments in it, so. It does. And she's a medium. And she's a legit one, not a fake one, you know? Like, you see that the people talk to her, hence why Patrick Swayze's character, whose name I can't think of. Yes, she won in 1991 for Best Supporting Actress for Ghost. And it won Best Original Screenplay, too. Oh, good deal. But it's a funny and endearing story. I haven't seen it in years, though. I think that counts because she's a medium. Okay, we'll count it. Okay. And I'm going to say Paranormal Activity because that was mentioned in our readings. Because there is the infamous Ouija board. There is. There is. And, I mean, you want to... Every time I watch it, I'm like, fucking die. And the show Charmed, did they use the Ouija board? Probably. I feel like they did. I used to watch that show way back in the day. I watched a little bit of it. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. They had something. So, I'll say Charmed. I enjoyed the show. Okay, yeah. I mean, I watched it a little bit, too. I can't... Those are the big ones I thought of. Yeah. Mine was Ghost. I really wanted to punch that one in there. I know you did. I know. It needs to be watched. It's a good movie. I always watch Sister Act. Now that I'm older and I understand the jokes better. A little bit more, yeah. It's very funny to me. So, that's the Whoopi Goldberg movie I always go to is Sister Act. It's a solid one. It's good. This was fun. It was. Let me finish off with some sage and some candles. You know, I got the sage candle I burn in here. And I'll go upstairs and get my tea-smelling sage. It actually has a blurb on it that's like evil spirit protection. And it says something like because I'm too... Because I'm getting annoyed with all the pots and pans and cabinets opening. I'll have to read the blurb. It's really funny. There's a Sixth Sense Scout. There's a Ouija board. There is a Ouija board. There is not a Ouija board. There's not a Ouija board. I think he was a medium. Yeah, he's a medium. See, I just know my medium. Spoiler alert, if you haven't seen Sixth Sense, where have you been? Yeah. Alright, I'm done. I'm done giving out medium movies. That's our next topic. Maybe. Maybe not. Well, thank you guys for having a listen. We hope you have a great week. And keep your spirits up. But remember to say goodbye. Yeah, we are done talking. Close. Close that gate, if you will. We hope to be creeping you later. Ghouls out. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.