Episode 1 Say Cheese

Two Creepy Ghouls is a podcast hosted by Amy and Rachel, who share a love for creepy stories and true crime. In this episode, they discuss spirit photography, capturing images of ghosts. They talk about the history of spirit photography, including the first spirit photographer, William Mumler. They also touch on post-mortem photography, which involved taking pictures of deceased loved ones. The hosts share some famous examples of spirit photographs and the controversy surrounding their authenticity. They mention that spirit photography became less popular with advancements in technology and skepticism. Overall, they find the topic intriguing and discuss their own thoughts and experiences with the supernatural. Hello there, this is Two Creepy Ghouls, and you may be wondering, who are the two creepy ghouls? My name is Amy, and I'm Rachel, my co-host Rachel, we're both hosting, this is so fun. So we are Two Creepy Ghouls, we're just two millennials who like to talk on the microphone, who have a love for creepy stories, a true love for true crime, and we love all of this with a buzz. Absolutely, cheers! Cheers! Ding, ding, ding, ding! What are we drinking, Amy? We are drinking the Liquid Ghost Cocktail, and from what I have googled, it is a delicious creamy delight. Okay, that sounded gross. Um, two ounces of cream, two ounces of vodka, one ounce of vanilla, or do we even want to tell the different ingredients? Oh, absolutely. They need to know. Okay, as you can tell, this is our first time, and like all first times, it never goes smoothly. One ounce of vanilla simple syrup, and you wonder again, what is vanilla simple syrup, Amy? It's literally just simple syrup with a splash of vanilla. Like literally, that is it. If you want to be Martha Stewart and make your own, you know what, you do. And then, of course, two ounces of club soda. So it's like a lovely curdled, not curdled, but it is a lovely little drink. Foamy. Foamy, that's what we're going to go with. Foamy. It's like dessert in a, in a, in a cup, in a liquid form. Kind of like we're drinking like pudding, but in a good way, not in like a disgusting, apocalyptic dessert way. Or you're too old to chew food, Amy. Not yet. Not yet. Hey! Still got my real teeth. Mmm. That's my handle after impression. Oh, great. So what is the theme today? So, as you know, I love a good theme. Love a good theme. You do. I, I really do. Um, so, it is Say Cheese! And it is a really, we're going to talk about spiritography. We're going to go into the whole shebang on creepy photos, essentially, is what this episode is about. Photos with ghosts captured in them. Yeah. So, we're going to talk about ghost photography. We're going to talk about ghost photography. We're going to talk about ghost photography. We're going to talk about ghost photography. 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We're going to talk about ghost photography. We're going to talk about ghost photography. We're going to talk about ghost photography. The goal in spirit photography is to capture images of ghosts. Pretty much any of the supernatural, just getting that documentation of a ghost essentially, or spirit, vapors, whatever you want to call it. It's huge in ghost hunting, as we all know. Yes, the Ghost Hunters, one of the great shows. I don't know if they're still on anymore. I think they are. I mean, I think for them. I remember our friend Mary used to call them ghost bros because they were like bro dudes who were really into ghost hunting. They are. Are you kidding? Yes. What's the actual name of the show? I don't know. Honestly, I like ghost bros better than ghost hunters. I like ghost bros, yeah. Just saying. Be honest. It's who you are. It's what you do. Go for it. I have a fun side note. I don't know if I ever told you this. In college, in my English class, we had to join a club, a club that we would never join, and write a paper and kind of not infiltrate, but be there for half a semester and learn from them. Yeah. And be serious. And be a club that you would never join in your life. And I chose the fucking Ghost Hunter Society in college, and I had such a great time. And they were the ones who spewed so much on how fake some of the ghost hunting shows are, because they're like, yeah, there's a cold breeze. The window's open over there. But they would do actual ghost hunters. And it was a fun, interesting, it was idling. It was my first adventure into ghosts and how to find them, if you will. But after I finished that semester and that paper, I never went back. But it was a nice four months with them. It was also like a club of five people. It was on like Tuesday nights, and I was like, okay, I'm good. That's the longest relationship I think I would have ever been in at that point. Yeah. It was a time commitment, yeah. I mean, most relationships are. No, I forgot about that. I remember you telling me about that when we first met. Because, of course, I think, I don't know. It's us. We got into talking about creepy stuff, and that's what we do. And then I think I remember you telling me this, and that was how our friendship blossomed. Bloomed. Bloomed. That's what I was always wondering, because they were actually going to go on a ghost-like adventure. I don't know what they call it. But I couldn't go. I actually really wanted to go, but I couldn't go. But I think I was able to go to the next meeting where they talked about it. I mean, they have like devices and stuff. There is like a lot of technology. No, I'm not going to an abandoned warehouse in the pitch black. I will never, ever do that. You cannot pay me enough money to do that. I mean, no. I mean, I'm all about safety. Even though I said I'll go, that's creepy. No, see, as much as I love creepy stuff, I am very much like safety first. And I'm like, okay, let's really think about this. I feel like I truly am like a mother hen at heart. And I'm like, okay, let's be safe about it. Let's not be stupid, because everything innocent, I feel like it can go sour really quickly, I guess. It's a weird way of me talking about it. True. Because that's like my thing. This is just a weird segue or a weird side story. So one thing that I'm always paranoid about is always making sure I have enough gas. Like a half a tank or more. Half a tank? At least a half a tank. I do not like it to get low, because we do live out in the country. I'm joking. In the country, in the boondocks. Or is the boondocks not good? I don't know. I'm all over the place. No, because that was the main reason in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. A true story. Yes, probably. I mean, there's no way to know. No, they ran out of gas. And that's the whole reason why. They ran out of gas. I'm like, that was your downfall? It wasn't a half a tank is your limit? That's as far down as I want it to go. Half a tank? Yes. I mean, you do get better gas mileage the more gas you have in your car. I've read that. It's just a weird thing, because if it gets below a half a tank, which, yes, it has. I'm not going to say it never has, but I kind of am like, oh. Nervous. I'm just thinking, what if my car breaks down? I usually do a quarter tank. And then I'm like, oh, maybe the next day or two I should get some gas. That's just always my thing. I'm always like, oh, we've got to make sure, because I don't want it to be some stupid thing, and then a chainsaw maniac hunting my skin comes after me, which, I mean, yeah. It can happen, man. These are strange times we live in. Anyways, spirit photography. Anything else you learned about it? Well, it dates back to the late 19th century. Yeah, I think I'm going to talk about the first one. I like it. You're so cute with your outlines. It's like we were fifth grade doing our book reports, and Wikipedia was very helpful. See? Although we didn't have Wikipedia in fifth grade. Well, now, and then you got to college, and it was outlawed, which, I mean. Oh, like you couldn't use it for books? Oh, no. You couldn't use it for anything. Are you kidding me? I don't think so. Yeah, I know. Ugh. Sorry. I do a lot of research. So my notes are a little all over the place, but in the best way possible. Yeah, in the best possible way. So in the 1860s, several photography techniques were already in place. The major one was a glass negative. A glass negative plate covered in a light-sensitive emulsion, and the emulsion would darken the parts of the photograph that were the lightest in reality, creating a reverse image, and this technique was experimented with a lot. Then there were numerous methods to create phantom-like apparitions, floating spirits. Weirdly enough, though, historians are still trying to figure out how some of these were created, because some of it is still a mystery. And we're going to talk about that later. Which is very interesting. I mean, doesn't that just get your blood pumping? A little, and I'm supposed to go to bed after this. You know what? You'll be fine. I'll make you another cocktail. Yeah, I'll turn on Going Girls, which is what I do every night to help me go to sleep. Yeah, Stranger Things is usually my vibe. Absolutely not. Not when I'm sleeping. Anyway, sorry. Well. But a popular proven method, overlapping the negatives during the printing process, so they would just overlap them, so the images would come out on the same photo, just by overlapping all of these negatives. And yes, I am turning my page, so if you hear that, I'm trying not to get too loud. This is so exciting. Sorry. And spirit photography is not the same thing, because this is something that I had issues clarifying within my brain. So spirit photography is all about capturing ghosts. But then, da-da-da-dum, there are post-mortem photography. Oh, like just taking pictures of dead people? Essentially. So it's basically, that's where people would be photographed dead, the physical bodies of deceased loved ones, and I have that in quotations. It was mainly children and mothers who died during childbirth, which is pretty morbid and pretty sad. Is that like to get a last picture or something? It was. And so the intent behind this was actually pretty innocent. It was seen as capturing like the last image of, you know, your family together. And so, I mean, it's not like the sinister thing of, you know, it was pretty innocent. It wasn't perverted. No, it wasn't like any kind of negativity. It was just a form of, it was really a form of closure and kind of just getting like the family together one last time. I mean, obviously, you couldn't do that today. Can you imagine? No. If those photos were taken today, that is probably an evidence locker somewhere. Because it would be all for the world to see them, and that time it would just be literally for the family. Yeah, it would just be for them. It wasn't like they could post it to Instagram or anything. Yeah, hashtag. But, you know, and also painting post-mortems, that was a thing. It was pretty common, actually. But spirit photography is all about capturing the spirit and not about, you know, dead bodies or anything. So, where are we at with, who was the first spirit photographer? I'm so glad you asked me. Was that not the greatest segue that I did? It was really good. So, we're going to talk a little bit about William Mumler. Mumler? Mumler. What a weird last name. He is known as, like, the first person to, quote-unquote, have the first spirit photograph. So, a little bit about William, if you will. Let's go back. William was born in the northeast, like Boston, New York area, in 1832. And before he began his career as a spirit photographer, he was actually a jeweler-engraver. So, he worked on jewelry. In Boston. I like how you sounded that out. It was hard to pronounce. Jeweler-engraver. Jeweler-engraver. But he did amateur photography in his spare time. And the whole story is he became an accidental spirit photographer, which I will cough up that, because apparently he did a self-portrait which, when he developed, also revealed the, quote-unquote, spirit of his dead cousin, who had been dead for 12 years at this point. And this one is widely credited as the first spirit photograph. And this was actually in the 1860s at this time, when it happened, just like what you were saying. Oh, yeah. So then, I guess it kind of took off because he left jewelry and became a full-time spirit photographer. He was moved by the spirit, if you will. Thank you. Thank you. Best dad joke in the world. That's right. So since word of his spirit photography spread around, he received tons of visitors from all over the United States. And probably his most famous one was Mary Todd Lincoln. And so she went under a pseudonym name. He didn't even know it was Mary Todd Lincoln, allegedly, because she went by, I think, after he had passed, not, like, in public, but in private. She went by, like, Miss Lindahl or something weird. I can't remember the name for it. I had it, and then I lost it. But when he photographed Mary Todd Lincoln, you saw the ghost of Abe Lincoln standing behind her with, like, his hands on her shoulders, kind of, like, fallen looking. Oh, yeah. It almost looks like he's in prayer, I think. And so they kind of figured that that was taken around 1869, 1870, so, like, four or five years after Lincoln was assassinated. Oh, Miss Tundall, that was the name. I'm sorry. According to William, he did not know it was Mary Todd Lincoln until after the photo was developed. Have you seen the picture at all? Yes. Yes, I remember. Yeah. I thought it looked very convincing. Okay. I mean, I'm not going to say no. But they were all sitting portraits. He literally was a portrait photographer, and the spirits would arise from people. I didn't have too much research for, like, were all the pictures of spirits, or was it just, like, 10% of? But he was a spiritual photographer, so if he didn't have a spirit in the photograph, could he just say, well, there's no spirits here, or did he make sure there was a spirit in there every time? There's not too much about him, so we can hypothesize all we want. But another one of his most famous photographs, which this one's a creepy one, I should have posted a picture for you to see, but it's this guy who's named Master Harrod, H-E-R-R-O-D, and he was a young medium. He looked like he was in his early 20s. Hot. Yeah, sure. And he was photographed by William in about 1872, and when the photograph was developed, it looked like Harrod was in a trance. He looks like this, like he's almost drunk and slouched, like literally in a trance. And he was surrounded by the spirits of three people, apparently one from Europe, one from Africa, and one from America, because since he's a medium, they follow him so that they can talk to their people, their deceased loved ones, I mean. And so it was actually a very, very lucrative business because of the American Civil War, and so many people were upset about their lost loved ones, and that's why a lot of people go to mediums now, too, but it's not, I don't think it's as big now as it was back then. They would go because they wanted closure, kind of like what you're saying, closure. They wanted to hear that they were in another life, and that they're happy, and that they're doing well, and that they are looking after them, so to speak. And so William did get a lot of critics for going after the most vulnerable people, which is I guess, yeah. So as his notoriety grew, he expanded his business to New York. You have to move to Big Apple once you get so famous, right? I mean, come on, it makes sense. So there he came under scrutiny of the mayor, who sent a reporter to visit him under the guise of a customer. So the mayor was like, go check out what's happening there. Pretend you're this person, and you want to see spirits. So during that visit, William produced a ghost in the reporter's portrait that identified the faces as the father-in-law of the reporter. However, the reporter's father-in-law was still alive and bore no resemblance to the spirit portrait in question. And this is where he was charged with fraud, one of the cases. So there was a big trial about it, about this is fraud, this isn't real. But he was acquitted because they could not be sufficiently proven. However, following the court case, it took a big toll on it because it suffered from a lack of enthusiastic clients now that they kind of thought that it was fraud because I think someone had exposed, ha, ha, ha, that photographers could easily make two exposures on a single negative and manipulate the negatives to create a ghostly blur or overlap two negatives in the darkroom to produce a face within like a lighter hue than the main picture. Um, so, but he was popular for a little bit longer, but then he like, it suffered when it kind of like the idea of spirit photography went down and I think technology like advanced a little bit with photography and people knew how photographs were made. And then he died destitute in 1884. Ha, ha, ha, ha. So it was a little sad. I didn't say anything about his wife because he was married and his wife was a medium. So I was like, mmm. And they were saying like most people now, I'm sorry, Amy, say that his pictures were all double exposures and fraudulent. But it kind of goes in with like him and his wife being a medium. Yeah, yeah. So if you're, uh, liquefying a ghost cocktail, um, But, I mean, I can't be too mad if he shows a spirit photograph and it helps a vulnerable person as long as it's meant kind of what's good and, I don't know. Yeah, it's all about your intentions, I think. So it's like if you want them to feel better, that's great. But it's also such a big lie. See, um. Or maybe some of them knew it was a lie but still like to be told it. I mean, sometimes you'd rather believe a beautiful lie than an ugly truth. True. I mean, let's be honest. But yeah, spirit photography, you know, I remember reading too that it was like, it was a huge sensation. But, I mean, of course it did have its fair share of skeptics, fraud cases. But, I mean, come on. If you were in a court case, like the one time you wanted to be picked for jury duty. You don't want petty theft, but like something about, like, documenting spirits. And I apologize if my pages are being heard. But, let me take this seriously. But, I mean, come on. The one time you wanted to be picked for jury duty. No, I feel like I would choose a more enticing. Because I think I'd be so biased. I'd be like, they wouldn't even pick me to be on the jury. Like, no, that's bullshit. I would be yelling, childlike combat. And just, like, random, like, law phrases. Speculation. I would be kicked out just for talking. I do not know how to read. You've never gotten out of jury duty, have you? I came close. You've had reports of jury duty. Yeah, I've had to report twice. Explain to me how that works. I don't know. I've had to report twice. You have. I was not picked. But you showed up. Well, yeah, and then COVID. Were you picked? Yeah, they wanted. Well, it was during COVID where I was, like, summoned. And then I, you know, they said, like, I would get instructions for the next one. And I never got them. It was probably already settled. I mean, I would assume so. But, I mean, it was just like, oh, my God. I'm waiting for a jury to come my way. I got called to jury duty when I was 18, but I was away at college. So I was excused, and I've never been called back since then. My mom's been called three times. Oh, my God. I'm like, I don't care. I mean, maybe I'm just. I have a job now where I could, like, actually take off or, like, work from there. I know, and I mean. And do my civic duty. And as someone who knows how the court system works, you don't show up for all the time. You can be excused the first day and never go back again. I was never. Yeah, it's. But I know every county is different. Right. I mean, everywhere it's different. In some counties, they have to show up for a month. Oh, God. But they're only called, like, once every 20 days because there's not a lot of criminal or cases that go to trial. Right. The justice system. Yeah. Anyways. Go on with your notes on your notepad. I mean, mine was basically. I'm sorry. I'm like. No, you're good. Stroking your leg. No, I thought it was the dog. Even though the dog can't even reach up that high. Please touch me. I was just going to say, well, and I mean, you didn't mention it. And you just said in your case regarding Mumler and his trials. But I read that somewhere that it was P.T. Barnum that was making a fuss. Oh, he did. So, yeah, I should have added that on here. But he. A lot of people ended up not liking William. Right. Because I think some people, like people in the circus or people high up or people who knew how photography was done, knew, kind of thought it smelled something fishy, if you will. Right. And didn't like it. And I think it was, I hope, well, P.T. Barnum, I'm not sure, that some people were like, well, you're being fraudulent against these vulnerable people who are paying probably a pretty penny for this. Yeah, but he wasn't the most ethical business practitioner or anything. I mean, hello, the man enslaved elephants. There, I said it. Oh, P.T. Barnum? Yeah. I thought you were talking about William Muller. I'm like, I don't know any, uh, any elephants. No, no, no. I'm just, I'm saying that here and now. Sorry, Hugh Jackman. But he was not at all like that. That character? There, I said it. Okay. Yes. Sorry. Lost my train of thought. So, like, P.T., I think he was making a big stink because you're taking away, like, from the greatest show on earth. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because that's something else that was extraordinary that he wasn't involved with. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Even though it's very different from his medium. Right. But do you want to talk about some legit pictures with ghosts in them? Oh, yeah. So, there are, if you just even do a simple Google search, it is amazing what you can see out there. So. Which one do you want to start with? There's a couple I know we want to talk about. Okay. Hold the phone, folks. I'm going to go through my list. So, I think one of the ones that, you know, of course, I always think of, because I've listened to other podcasts, is the Amityville ghost, excuse me, of 1976. Yes, do explain it. Like, okay. Have there been enough movies about Amityville horror yet? There's only, like, ten of them, right? I don't even know. There's so many. I do want to watch the documentary about, like, my Amityville horror, because it's, like, one of the DeFeo. Not DeFeo. Shit. That's all right. It wasn't the DeFeo, because that was the family that all died. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That was the family that moved in after the DeFeos, and one of those kids, like, tells, like, his point of view and everything that happened. And the people tell it. Yeah, oh, for sure. And, like, people are, I mean, I've just seen the trailer for it, but the guy comes across, like, very sincere, and he's, like, a tough guy. So, it's, like, you, he doesn't have any reason to, like, to lie, I guess is what I'm saying. Oh, yeah. He doesn't get any monetary value or anything. Yeah. He's just, like, he, to me, I'm, like, okay, I believe it, personally. And so, it just, it looks, like, really interesting. Yeah. So, I know, I don't like scary movies. Shocker, I know. Mm-hmm. But I know the concept of Amityville is the theory is that the oldest brother killed everyone else in the family. Mm-hmm. But was he found? And he, like, I mean, he confessed to it, I think. And he tweeted and said yes and did it. And what did he say why he did it? I think he said the devil made me do it. Oh, okay. It was something, like, I think it was something along those lines, Azipar, and, like, that he himself did not want to do it. Like, he was being forced to do it by an evil entity. And, I mean, I think we... Is he still alive or was he, like, executions, like, a little bit earlier by? I don't think he was. I think he's still in prison. But I don't, honestly, that's, like, a case on our list where I'm, like, we should probably review it, you know. Go to the, yeah, they made a million fucking movies about it. Excuse my language. As you can tell, Rachel is heated. But, no, I think that it is an interesting case to even talk about. I know, again, and I know everybody's talked about it, but for some reason I can't remember all the details. But, I mean, there's a lot of stuff. But talk about the picture. But the photo, okay, yes. So back to the photo. This photo was in 1976. And it was taken by Lorraine Warren. You know, as in Lorraine Warren, everybody knows them. They were, you know, a team of a husband and wife, demonologist. She was a medium, you know, very renowned. It's, like, William and his wife, who I can't remember her name. William Elizabeth, probably. They were all named Elizabeth back then. Let's just be honest. But this photo, it is a black and white photo. And, you know, it looks like a normal photo. You see this, like, this little boy, it looks like, looking out from, like, a bedroom. And, but Lorraine took this photo. And then upon further inspection, she was, like, okay, nobody was there. That, and it is believed that this is one of the DeFeo children that was murdered by, and so. And it wasn't one of their kids. Yeah, and they were, like, there was nobody in the house, like, when that photo was taken. And this was, this image was captured by a camera that took, like, infrared. Infrared? I swear to God, I cannot say that word. Infrared photos during the night. And so it was taken during the night, too. So, I mean, what kid is going to be up, like, late at night, walking around in an empty house? So, it gives you chills when you read the background info on that photo. And then you're, like, oh, my God. It's not just, like, devil-looking eyes. Yeah, he doesn't have, like, normal eyes. I mean, you don't see pupils very much. Like, they're just white, which is ridiculous. So, you think that that's a real spirit one? Yeah, I mean, and I think that's even been said. That's, like, one of, like. A verified one? Yeah, a verified, like, that's, like, evidence. Can I tell you one of my verified ones? Yeah, sure. Which one would you like me to get to so we can look at it as we're talking about it? Robert A. Ferguson. Which looks like a typical photo, except for the, you know, spirit, I guess, in the background. I'm sorry. I'm taking my time. No, you're good. It's a lot of pictures, I know. Yeah, and the site that we use to, like, look up all these. Well, that's a pretty well-done. We'll go back to that one, but I'm looking for Robert. We're almost there. There it is. Ah, yes. So, this is Robert Ferguson. Like, you can kind of see. It looks like it's almost with him, behind him. And part of me is like, is that not just him moving, but it's not him at all. It's his face. So, this is Robert Ferguson. He was attending a spiritualist convention in Los Angeles. I know, spiritualism. Back in, this is 1968. And one of the attendees decided they would take a photograph of him while he was speaking. Right, right. And when he looked at the photograph afterward, he got a big surprise. There was an image in the photograph that was similar to him. It was Robert's brother. There was only one problem. Robert's brother had passed away during World War II. Because Robert was interested in spiritualists in general, it may be that he was sensitive. His brother may have been as well. Many ghosts decide, according to this website, because of their interest and because of their affection for those of us who are still living, to come back and see us through some of our toughest times. Some people may question the authenticity of the photograph, but it was taken on a fucking Polaroid camera. Oh my god, this makes it creepy. There's no way any kind of photoshopping could have been done to that picture. I do like that one, because that one is creepy. Oh my gosh. Do you want to talk about that brown lady? Is that what the picture's called? Yeah, I think it's called the Brown Lady, which her story is like... Okay, yeah, it's called the Brown Lady, and this was a photo that was taken in 1936. The Brown Lady is considered to be actual evidence, photographic evidence of ghosts. This was taken in, forgive me for all of our England listeners, I'm going to butcher how I say this, Ronham Hall in Norfolk, England. Again, I apologize, I probably should have looked up the pronunciation, but bear with me, folks. It's like there have been alleged sightings of the figure before in photos, and this is said to be the ghost of Lady Townsend. She was locked in a room in the hall by her husband when he found out about her infidelity and left her there to die. Shut up, just divorce her. I mean, it's so crazy, but yeah. Alleged too, by the way. She's probably smiling at him, and he's like, mm-mm. I mean, to me, it's a normal, black and white again, and it's like a staircase, and you just see this shape of a figure, and it's all light and everything, but yeah, people claim this is their photographic evidence, so it's really interesting, I mean, honestly, when you look through these. And I mean, yeah, there have been photographs, which I'll say, Yeah, and this website, which we should talk about, there's some that say it's pretty proven, and some that they've been proven to be fake. Yeah, and I mean, so it's interesting, especially when you compare them all. Oh, there's William. Mumbler, oh wait, it's Mumbler. Yeah, you're right, Mumbler. Mumbler, I've been calling him Mumbler. Maybe it is, the B is silent. Mumbler. Huh, Mumbler, he was a Mumbler guy. Yeah, he was a Mumbler. The other one I'd like to talk about is the Waverly Hills one. Oh, God, that's a good one. A ton of Waverly Hills ones, because it was literally a sanatorium for TB patients. People went there to die, essentially. There's a chute that they just put the people down the chute, remember? I used to hear, okay, and I mean, we're going to talk about this at some point, because it is interesting. It is, yeah. And like the chute where they would send them down, you know, okay. So I once heard that you could go down the chute. I have to, but I don't believe that. I think what they meant to say, because then I asked somebody who actually went there, and he goes, like, yeah, like, technically, yes, but like you can walk down a set of stairs that is next to the chute. So you can, like, walk down the steps, and then you can see, like, how the chute works. You can't, like, physically get in the chute. Yeah. I used to think you could physically get in the chute, and I was like, okay, I don't think they would allow that. At Waverly, you can do overnight stays, and that's a fucking lie. I heard that you could also, like, it's 100 bucks if you stay overnight, but if you stay overnight, like, the whole night, you get your money back. Nah. Again, no. Probably if you're by yourself, I'd be like, absolutely not. But there are a couple of, I would be farting the whole time. Period. God, I would get nervous farts. Yeah. I'm not even embarrassed about talking about, like, I'm in my 30s. I don't care. I would be farting the whole time. But this specific one is so fascinating, and there's a little bit about it. So this photo that's on here shows, like, a creepy woman on the side of, like, the abandoned warehouse. Because this photo was actually taken in September of 2006. Oh, my God. You would not think that looking at this photo, fake folks. It was during an overnight investigation by a paranormal research society. Oh, that's the name of the group that I joined was the Paranormal Research Society in college. I couldn't remember the actual name, but now I do. It's literally called that. Anyways, this photo was taken on the fourth floor of the main hospital building around 7 a.m. It tells you all the kind of camera that was used. And according to team data, the camera settings were at 160th second speed and f-stop 5.6, which I'm going to guess means it takes it very, very fast or something along those lines. I would assume so. Yeah. So the eerie image apparently depicts Mary Lee, a nurse who hung herself in the hospital. The story goes that this poor woman was impregnated by a doctor who worked in the hospital but later wanted nothing to do with her. So, yeah, this website claims that she's the nurse who allegedly hung herself in room 502, although that's the fourth floor, they said, after learning she was pregnant or had TB or both. Others say that Mary was the daughter of a doctor who often visited the patients and tried to cheer them up. Unfortunately, she herself contracted TB and passed away. Others just simply believe she was one of the many patients who lived and died in the facility over the years. We have her name. Why can't we figure it out? This wasn't like 100 years ago this happened. It wasn't like 200 years ago. Who would do record keeping, you know what I mean? I don't know. Maybe they didn't because of how poorly all of this was done. I don't know. I feel like people almost have to. I feel like you do. I mean, again, though, I feel like there have been a lot of hospitals throughout the ages that this just dropped the ball. Yeah, exactly. Let's be honest. I'm curious. The most prominent one that I saw was the one where she was the nurse who was pregnant and then they wanted nothing to do with her. I've heard that story before. You hadn't or had? No, I had. But, yeah, that's terrifying. There are so many stories out there, too. Any sanatorium in the early 1900s are going to be devastating. I mean, any abandoned hospital. But for me. They're still abandoned. Honestly, what's creepy about this photo is to me, like if I didn't see the caption for 2006 and if you didn't tell me that, like I would assume this photo was, like, from the 30s or 40s. Yeah, because of how grainy it looked. Or older just because of, yeah, the grain and. I guess he took it in the dark. I mean, would you make sense if it's, you know, in the dark? And, I mean. That's just so creepy. Yeah. You know what? Yeah. I mean, that's a female silhouette. Yeah. Oh, well, in another website, it shows Mary Lee, like, in a corner picture. Like, a shot that looked just like her. It looked like them. I mean, it's just, it's remarkable if you just Google ghost photos. And, I mean, yeah, like we said earlier, some you can tell that are just, like, faked. But others, like, I mean. It's just, it's amazing. It's just, it's amazing to me. And, I mean. I'm glad we're talking about that today. I'm glad we're done because it creeps me a little bit, even though. I mean, it's creepy, but, I mean. It's out there, and we're talking about it. It's interesting to me. I mean, really. Okay, and I will say. I remember, I cannot look up the, let me think of the name. There was this one. Maybe it was the guy you mentioned earlier. And, I mean. He claimed he was in the spirit photography. I cannot think of the guy's name for the life of me. But, his photos were legitimately, I mean, they were fake. Oh. And, I mean. I'm going to see if I can Google one. You sure it wasn't William Mumbler? I don't think it was him. Crap on a cracker. I'm trying to remember the guy's name. It was interesting because the photo itself was cool. But, I mean. The spirit was so, like. It was fake. I mean. The person that he was also using in this photo was wearing a skeleton mask. Oh my gosh. I mean, it was very theatrical. I'll say that. If I, like. I cannot think of the name. But, if I do. I'm going to put it on Twitter. We're going to put it on Twitter. It's, like, kind of comical. But, it looks like a weird theater production to me. Which is probably what they were going for, I bet, too. Probably. And, um. I'm going to put fake. Yeah, do that. Let's just. I was thinking. How would I have it framed to put it in my bathroom? Because it was just a good photograph. I'll say that. Okay. I cannot find it, folks. I will. I promise you that. Just shout at the end. Let's you Google it. I know. I'll be like. Add to it. Guys, I'm a vet. Yes. Everybody, pay attention. But, I mean. These are interesting things. But, you know. I'm glad we're talking about it. We have a sage candle. We're fine. We better be. I hope so. Okay. The key. No, but I was going to. But, I don't know how to. Okay. Doorway? Yeah, but I don't know how it like. I don't know. I also don't want to start a fire. No, it's going to be smoky. Great. My sister will probably be like. What? Did you burn something? Like, did you burn food? I'm like, no. I cleansed our house. No, I cleansed it. And, I did a chant that I made up on TikTok. It's fine, guys. You let it in. You let it out. You know, you just. It's a stupid thing. Well, I thought that was all pretty interesting. It is interesting. And, I mean. Think about it. What's your favorite spirit photograph that you've ever seen? Do you have a favorite? The one that I can't think of right now? Oh, okay. Great. But, I mean, it's a fake one. But, I mean. But, it's still your favorite? I don't know. And, I honestly. The Mary Todd one. I mean, I can believe it's seen. But, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. 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