Ep 64 Dead Woman's Crossing

Two cousins, Jess and Tiff, discuss random topics in Oklahoma. Jess tells a creepy story about a Christmas countdown toy that kept going off in the middle of the night. Tiff shares some historical information about the Sand Creek massacre and the Mullendore murders. They also mention a listener who had some interesting insights about the murders. Hi I'm Jess and I'm Tiff and we're your curious cousins where we talk about everything kooky and spooky in the state of Oklahoma. Welcome to episode 64. Welcome. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I'm not sick anymore again. You still kind of sound like a little crackly. A little, a little. You definitely sound better. A tiny runny nose but I can breathe through my nose. Nice. Good. That's always good. I don't wake up you know in the middle of the night with like your lips plastered to your teeth. Your tongue stuck to the roof of your mouth. I know. It kills me. It kills me. Well good. I'm glad you're feeling better. On the up and up. Yay. How about you? Good. Today was my last day of work until after Christmas so yay. I'm gonna have to go back on you know Wednesday of next week but. I had to work yesterday and then I don't have to go back until my birthday. Ah. Not fair. But yeah. I have a story I need to tell you. Okay. Oh I meant to bring the thing in. Okay vamp for a second. Okay. You get to get all this out now. What else is new? Nothing could be worse than last week. Oh no. Let me put my leg right in. Alright. So. Uh huh. As you can see I brought something. Uh huh. And of course our listeners can't see it but I'll take a picture of it and post it. But this is our family countdown to Christmas and it's frosty and every day one of the boys is the boys takes out the magnet. See it. You can listen to today's. Mm-hmm. I didn't do it. You take out the magnet and he says something different every day. Oh okay. So had this thing for years. Uh huh. Whatever. Last night. Okay. I wake up to hear this. And at first I heard it and I was like which one of my children is awake right now? What time was it? 3 a.m. Oh my gosh. The witching hour. 3 a.m. I hear it. I don't hear it again. Then I kind of drift back to sleep and wake back up to this. Oh no. I didn't do it. Yes. This thing went off. I don't know how many times. Like I legitimately got freaked out. That kind of gives me chills. Like I I was sitting there and I was like okay maybe the magnet is just stuck. Mm-hmm. But I'm gonna tell you right now it did not do that at all the whole day because my husband had stayed worked from home. Mm-hmm. Because Bubba was sick. Right. So he stayed home from school and it didn't go off all day. Like Bubba slept on the couch most of the day watching TV or would take a nap on the couch and it didn't go off. Why at 3 a.m. was it going off continually? I mean like I would scared myself enough that I couldn't get out of bed. Oh my goodness. So finally I sucked it up. Yeah. At 306 and I didn't even know what time it was. So between then and the time you got up how many times did it go off do you think? Oh my gosh. Six, seven, eight times maybe. I didn't know what time it was. So did the hubby wake up at all? No. Why didn't you like shove him and be like don't check that out. He didn't wake up until I got up. I would have been shoving him and let's go see what's going on. You know what he probably would have been like you're the one who invited all this stuff in here you go check it out. He's not wrong I guess but anyway. So I finally get up and on my way I kid you not from my bedroom to the living room I flip on every single light except for my bedroom light. I would have too. There's nothing there. There's nobody there. Oh that is so creepy. And as I approach it it goes off again. Oh. And I just stand frozen and I whip that star out and I set it. I set it like on where we can't you know because we have that like stand that we put our stockings on. I set it on the stand and turn off all the lights go back to sleep or go back or like lay back go back to bed. Go back to bed. And I kind of sat here and in my mind I was like if you are kind if you're a kind spirit you are welcome here if you are malevolent get out. I sat there and of course I was like praying I was like please don't let it be like a demon or something. In the name of Jesus I rebuke thee. Exactly. I was just like please. So anywho the next morning we get up or I get up because Bubba had moved and fell back asleep on the couch and I woke up to him snoring and I go in there and I don't like around 1030 he gets up and he was like ah the strangest thing happened last night and I was like oh my gosh what and he goes I swear I kept hearing frosty because we call it frosty right kept going off and off because I think that our elf because we've got two elves on the shelf I think they were playing with him and I was like yeah I think so too it woke me up mama knows and so and then baby will try to tell you that it woke him up it didn't it didn't wake him up because I asked I asked Bubba I was like hey did your brother wake up and he goes no yeah that is my creepy story oh my goodness needless to say tonight the magnet will not be inside of frosty I'm going to take him out before I go to bed don't blame you sounds like you need to save your house hi exactly I'm gonna go to the farm hippie in Collinsville and get some sage for sure I mean that's really that is really weird I know like I'm like it could have you know could have been I was like maybe the battery is dying on it nope and then I was like maybe you know maybe it got stuck but then I think how did he get stuck like that and it had been on the 19th all day long well in the fact that it didn't do it before no it didn't start doing it until 3 a.m. gross I know I know gross I say that story all day like it took everything in my power not to like text you at 306 a.m. before she texted me while I was at work and she's like remind me I have a creepy story to tell you and I was like great okay right yeah so yeah well I have another scary story to tell you well I've got some business oh okay sort of so you know last week I covered black kettle and the Wachita River massacre sorry I had a brain fart well my my older brother texted me Monday I think it was yeah it doesn't matter he texted me and he had told me that so I just wanted to I wrote everything down that he had sent to me so I thought I'd read those for you really quick but he has said that the Union volunteer the Union volunteers that participated in the Sand Creek massacre were shunned and looked down on once it was known that they attacked the elderly and the women and the children good and he said that every US Army in Calvary that fought in the Indian Wars is what they called him and had like Indian scouts and the reason and well he said Kester had crow scouts with him at little bighorn yeah but he said the reason for that was because it was the only way that the army could actually find these encampments oh yeah I mean and definitely so make sense yeah and then he also said sorry he's he's like a fountain of information so he said that Chivington was court-martialed by the US Army after the massacre but that they couldn't punish him because he was out of the army when the court-martial happened does that make sense I mean yes but I feel like they still could have punished him like okay so we can't court-martial you will hear is a federal indictment right or like something yeah um they did say that there were also congressional hearings and military investigations following the massacre and Congress and the US Army determined it was murder and then he's good he sent me the screenshot and it said that Congress vilified Chivington in summarizing his cowardly and racist attack in their published report called wearing the uniform or it just said sorry let me re-say that Congress vilified Chivington and in some I also remember to have some other news for you too okay Congress vilified Chivington and summarizing his cowardly and racist attack in their published report quote wearing the uniform of the United States which should be the emblem of justice and humanity he deliberately planned and executed a foul and dastardly massacre and quote the and it's I think this report is called the Sand Creek massacre of the official 1865 report but so he had those were just a few things that he had texted me about that episode so I'm glad that that happened because you know they also don't mention that either that the u.s. thought was wrongdoing right you just kind of see it from the perspective of oh yeah the army did this right it was awful that doesn't happen my faith in the u.s. at times I have another piece of news for you but I need to get my phone okay so vamp again sorry excuse me so I had a listener reach out to me this week or maybe it was last week oh maybe I don't know anyways they reached out to me and I wanted to share what knowledge she had shared with me and I actually know her but I don't know if I can share her name so I'm not going to do it right now but she's one of my sorority sisters okay who lives here in the Tulsa area and she said that she had just listened to our podcast over the mullin door murders oh yeah and she said it was interesting and informative and so thank you she met EC the fourth his son yes yes through a friend he never believed and still does not believe that Chubb Anderson is the man who committed the murder really yes they do believe that he was part of a setup but not the mastermind for the murder and that his wife is still alive and doesn't believe it either which is kind of interesting because according to the book the footprint from the deal yeah it was he almost had like a bedside confession to the author yeah that's interesting so well we just her and I just started having this conversation back and forth and some more of it that she had said was that her friend that she got this information from her is 30 years her senior but he was the one who had introduced her to EC and this friend of hers got her interested in both the Girl Scout murders and so she was like that's like the one she was gonna listen to now and and the mullin door murders and she oh she had said this friend of is also good friends with Pete Weaver's son from the Girl Scout murders I guess they're like insurance agents or something so that was kind of really she has these two steaks and two different giant cases yeah that's crazy she was shocked to hear about the information of the botched job from the mullin door murder but she said that her friend who is friends with you see mullin door he can't podcast uh-huh but she encouraged him to listen to it and he said that you did an amazing job I just wanted to share that with you um that made me a little nervous there for a minute right it always makes me nervous too but so people I just wanted to share with you so people people really like you know it gets me thinking about when we first started and we're like we just hope like five people that we don't know that we're not really yeah that we're not related to yes not that we don't love our our family no we do but you know are you ready for a ghost story after the one you just told me I'm not sure okay well first let me preface this that the more I looked into this case I was totally you know mm-hmm the ghost stories are like my jam right this one turns into kind of a true crime story yes you're right you're right but so than what you thought me right exactly exactly so I'm going to cover a dead woman's crossing ever heard of it I've heard of it but I don't know what it's about it's in Weatherford Oklahoma my sources are ghost Lahoma by Tanya Hacker and Tammy Wilson which we have tons of books from them they're really known for their paranormal writing here yeah they're both from Oklahoma dead women's dead woman's crossing by Altus obscura dead woman's crossing by Becky Ray for Casey ghost the Tulsa Daily Democrat article from August 3rd 1905 oh you went far back I did father offers reward no traces mrs. Katie James can be found that article is from the Pryor Creek Clipper on August 5th of 1905 and then there was an article called mrs. Katie Jones body discovered from the Shawnee Herald from August 31st of 1905 oh wow so what happens when you discover your urban legend is actually true you get the heebie-jeebies a little more in Weatherford take I-40 exit 84 north half a mile to a stop sign fourth a mile east north to a blacktop half a mile to a bridge crossing that's a very specific this is where you will find what the locals call dead woman's crossing oh gosh I don't like the sound of this there once was an old wooden bridge there that cover that went over Deer Creek okay it's now replaced with a concrete one probably a good thing yes yes so let's do a little bit of history July 7th 1905 so we're going way back yeah 29 year old Katie DeWitt James a schoolteacher and her 14 month old daughter Lulu Bell boarded a train in Custard City Oklahoma to visit a sister or a cousin there were differing sources who she was visiting it was a relative okay they were in Ripley which is found in Payne County Katie was described by others as pleasant and well-liked she was even popular yet she was hiding a dark secret on July 6 Katie filed for divorce on the grounds of cruelty oh she was scared and decided to put some space between herself and her husband before he got the news of the divorce okay so she's 20 at this time 29 29 okay so Katie's father Henry DeWitt helps her pack up her and the baby's belongings and takes them to the train station he watches them get on the train and watches the train pull away Katie never arrived at her cousin's house or her sister's house her relative's house I guess I should say Lulu Bell no oh after not hearing from Katie for weeks there was really no specific date given but based on the newspaper articles it had to be probably around the beginning of August of 1905 so roughly a month I would say yeah Henry DeWitt files a missing persons report and told by law enforcement to hire a private investigator by the name of Sam Bartel now remember this is pre statehood yeah so well-established sheriffs and police officers weren't really a thing so a lot of people had to do like go the private investigator right route do you say route or route it depends in what reference okay because I don't say route 66 I say route 66 but if I'm talking about some like a way that I'm going I'll say route yeah and it's also a route 44 drink there you go anyway sorry that was a tangent Sam Bartel is someone you would want in your corner like he just he was dedicated to this case searching for your missing loved ones he would not give up and so Henry was able to hire him and it was a great thing I mean you're gonna this entire investigation was him so he came highly recommended by probably kind of law enforcement and he did a fantastic job at his job he was able to trace Katie to Weatherford where it was believed a woman matching her description was seen in the company of mrs. Hamm mrs. Hamm was a known sex worker who worked for mrs. Fannie Norton another known sex worker an owner of a local boarding house in downtown Weatherford Fannie's husband drove horse-drawn buggies and this will come in this will come in okay so remember okay it was reported that Katie and Lulu stayed the night on July 7th with Fannie's brother-in-law William Moore of Weatherford Sam part Sam Bartel also discovered that the morning of July 8th two women and a baby were seen leaving town in a buggy Fannie was reported at she was reported telling the library workers that they'd be back in three hours delivery okay livery I don't know if it's library or livery didn't mean to correct you the livery workers this worker reported that Fannie told Katie they were heading to hydro within two hours though Fannie returned in the buggy alone so how far away is hydro from did they say at all I know and I haven't I'm not familiar with that part of oh I mean it's some it's in that vicinity I know that if my husband were in here he could probably give you specifics he went to school at weather he went to Southwestern and Stephanie went to Southwestern my sister and my husband is from Western Oklahoma right so he would definitely probably know he'd probably be able to start off how many months so Bartel he heads to hydro a woman there reports to him that she saw the buggy with two women and a baby enter a field near Deer Creek then pass back by 45 minutes later with one woman missing that's odd and another similar story a farmer saw this scene the same scene but when the buggy was returning with the one woman and the baby it was traveling at breakneck speeds the farmer went out to investigate what might have happened to the other woman but all that were found were glasses clothing and a grip and I found out that a grip is something similar to a small purse okay I was like a grip what I know I didn't know either I had to google it all of these items reportedly did belong to Katie oh gosh this is giving me bad night several farm homes in the area also reported seeing the buggy and the trio or in some cases the duo on July 8th so just depended on what time they saw if they saw three people or two people and I guess really an adult two adults and a baby or an adult in a baby right one of these farms Fanny actually stopped at outside the farm Fanny passed the 14 month old Lulu Bell to a little boy she instructed the boy to take the baby to his mother and have her watch the baby while Fanny went into town for a bit Fanny said that she'd come back she never did on July 24th 1905 Lulu Bell was discovered so here we are in July so I guess if we think back maybe he hadn't maybe Henry DeWitt hadn't only heard from his daughter for maybe two weeks because Lulu Bell's discovered alive July 24th so that's before the beginning of August okay so the baby was alive yes okay Lulu Bell is discovered alive and well at the farmers homestead in Weatherford where she had been dropped off by Fanny okay Sam Bartel notified Henry DeWitt that his granddaughter has been located alive and well but not Katie the farming family baby Lulu was with told Sam Bartel some startling news when the child had been handed over by who presumably Fanny Norton the baby's clothing had specks of blood on it whoa in fact while leaving the boy and the baby the body witnessed Fanny throwing a bundle out of the buggy okay so the boy witnessed Fanny throwing something out of the buggy yes so he went retrieved it I mean he's a little boy I don't know how to retrieve it too I mean yeah he probably thought it was like treasure or something right exactly it wasn't it was a bundle of blood-soaked clothes oh yet the baby was unharmed additionally the boy reported he saw blood splattered on the side of the buggy oh my goodness so Sam he was hot to catch a Fanny like that was his prime suspect right there he needed to catch her he traced her all the way to Shawnee which if you think about it in today's time Weatherford is on the western side of the state Shawnee is on the eastern side of the state or western side of Oklahoma City eastern side of Oklahoma City yeah he literally went across Oklahoma State now granted I know it's not as big as it is today but I know but on a buggy that's not even on a horse that's not you know that would still take you I think days yeah maybe I don't know I think it would probably take you a day or two because you're trying he's probably had to stop at all sorts of different boarding houses and maybe even railroad stations to try to get like have you seen this woman have you heard you know blah blah blah trying to get her description so he traced her to Shawnee where she was then arrested by the local police department when questioned about Katie's whereabouts Fanny told rambling far-fetched stories about Katie meeting a man and leaving with him then she said another story she said was that they'd met a man and two more women in a covered wagon where Katie abandoned her child with Fanny and hopped in the wagon hmm no one was buying this hog right Katie would not file for divorce pack up all of her belongings and her baby just to leave with some strangers and so I have the expert or excerpt I have an excerpt of part of the story that he told from the Shawnee Herald it wasn't it was printed in the newspaper and you have to remember this is 1905 they just wrote in a different way yes yes they did so she stated that she and mrs. James with the child had driven out from Weatherford two and one half miles where they met a man and two women in the covered wagon mrs. James then told her that these were the parties she had expected to meet and she and her belongings with the child were transferred to the covered wagon she gave mrs. Norton a $5 bill to pay for the rig and her trouble and owing to the bad condition of her husband's affairs at Clinton business being very dull she had come to Shawnee to get work so the whole reason why Fanny was in Shawnee was because her husband her husband didn't have a job wasn't able to support her so she needed more work she thought going to Shawnee would be it but um so there is you know her claiming that oh Katie left the babe the Katie and bit the baby went but now we've got like this whole family of people that are like mmm you've literally handed me this baby right so law enforcement surmised that Fanny shot Katie in the buck buggy while she fell where she fell forward and off the buggy into the creek and I think that they just assumed she shot her there's no body right so they assume that she had shot her this would explain blood splatter the blood amount if she had been holding Lulu Bell then and she got shot of course you have a blood all over the baby you know that kind of stuff the area where a lot of the reporting of where they had seen her at was really secluded no one would have heard or seen or been suspicious of anything because you know at that point people are probably still hunting for their food I should say they heard a gunshot it wasn't yeah they probably didn't think anything about it so now remember Katie was estranged from her husband and mr. Martin Luther James he he needed to be talked to who is that that's her husband oh Katie's husband I didn't remember you mentioning oh no that's the first time investigators needed to talk to him staffed well yeah of course sorry I thought maybe I was missing a page I'm missing a page see that happened to me last week I was like three oh that's because I didn't go back to this page Oh remember I read the thing okay so the and delete everything until you get to the end yes I did delete everything until you to the end of the article okay or do you want me to just read the article over and start over there from there no I don't think you'll have to read okay so that's kind of a strange no okay remember when you thought it was gonna be easy it's just gonna be a bunch of blank space do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do Okay, delete everything after show me newspaper article. So from this point forward, keep this. So that's kind of a crazy story. Yeah, I mean, Fanny denies murdering Katie and even wept bitterly, alleging no one would believe her. While taking a break from questioning, Sam Bartel started speaking with a reporter when Fanny is heard vomiting. Sam and the others rush in to find her heaving and gasping for air. She would never recover. She had poisoned herself. She died the next morning. So literally the only one who knows what happened to those two people. Mm hmm. Well, I mean, like with Katie. Yes. Killed her or poisoned herself. Mm hmm. Now the investigation comes to a screeching halt. The trail is cold. No one has any idea where Katie is. If she's dead. Is she alive? They don't know. Here's a kooky fact. Fanny's death was deemed a suicide and her body was never claimed. So she is buried in an unmarked grave in Shawnee. She was married. Yeah, he was married. Huh? He was married. Sam Bartel vowed to continue the search. He was not going to give up. During this time, Father Henry DeWitt offered a $500 reward for the return of Katie alive and a $75 reward for her dead body. That would be almost $18,000 today if they found her alive and $3,000 if they found her dead. Here's another kooky fact. Territorial Governor Ferguson added an additional $300 to the reward, which would be about $11,000 today. Oh, wow. So on August 31st, GW Cornell of Weatherford, while fishing with his son, stumbled upon Katie's body along the Deer Creek. Oh, my goodness. Oh, gosh. How awful. Right. It was badly decomposed. I mean, hello. It had been July and August. Oh, I can't even imagine. However, the hair matched Katie's, the clothing was recognized, and her gold wedding ring was still on her finger. Oh, my goodness. The skull had been severed from the body but found a short distance away. So this really had to be shocking. Like, had she been decapitated? Her hat was actually found under some mud and debris nearby. So they gathered her body, and an autopsy was performed. And during that autopsy, they discovered a bullet hole behind her right ear. Oh, my goodness. And so a revolver, having belonged to Fanny and positively ID'd by Fanny's attorney, was also discovered downstream after the body was discovered. So law enforcement surmised that Fanny had shot Katie in the buggy, where she fell forward and off the buggy into the creek, like possibly off the bridge into the creek. So that could account for, how do I put this delicately, the removal of her head perhaps, but that also could have been caused by decomposition and animals moving it. They don't believe that she was actually decapitated. Right. It could have been a combination of a fall. Nature. Nature, you know. The area was secluded enough that no one would have heard or been suspicious of hearing, like, a gunshot wound or a gunshot. Just to clarify, they found her body in Shawnee? No, it was in Weatherford. It was in Weatherford. In the area between Weatherford and Hydro. Okay. Sorry, I'm just trying to keep it all straight, and I'm not doing a very good job. So now remember, Katie was estranged from her husband, a Mr. Martin Luther James. Investigators needed to talk to him stat something was missing. What would that be? A missing persons report by him. Well, I mean, but they weren't – she was trying to get away from him, but why would he – I don't know. I don't think it's that weird that he didn't put out a missing persons report. Okay. To me, it's not weird. I wonder if they thought it was weird because I don't know if he knew a divorce was coming or what, or if he – I don't know. Part of me is like, would he have not gone to her family and been like, where is she? Where did she go? Well, I mean, I guess I can see how that would be odd. But he never did file a missing persons report for either his wife or his daughter. He was sarcastic on the stand when he was called in, never expressing any remorse, sorrow, or concern for either his missing wife or his missing child. Even when he found out that Katie had died, he didn't bat an eye. Many suspected Martin of playing a part, but there was never any evidence. Unless he had an alibi for the day of the murder. Doesn't mean he couldn't have played a part in it. Well, not to play devil's advocate here, but what would be the chances that he would know that she would leave and just happen to meet Fannie? I'll get there. We'll get to some speculations. The grand jury did indict Fannie for murder with robbery being the motivation, but she was dead, so what's the point? Yep, there it is. This is also a kooky fact. Katie and Martin were still married at the time of her death. No divorce had yet been granted. What's even more kooky, get this, Katie had just come into her trust. Thus, Martin was to inherit Katie's substantial estate. Katie's father was wealthy. Hello, think about that reward. He had set up a trust fund for Katie when she was younger. Not long before her death, Katie's trust was opened to her. She was given a large amount of money, land holdings, and a working farm. The plot thickened. Once the assets were transferred to Martin, he petitioned courts for custody of his daughter Lulu. Remember that one he was so concerned about? And he got her from her grandfather, Henry DeWitt, who had custody of her, who was the one who went to get her from the random family that had her. Right. Not wasting any time, Martin quickly sold the farm and liquidated all of Katie's other assets. And then, poof, Martin and Lulu vanish without a trace, never to be seen again. Oh, my gosh. To this day, the mystery of what happened to Martin and Lulu is still there. But also, Katie's case still remains unsolved. So this story is full of mystery. Number one, what happened to Martin and Lulu? Right. Because now I need to know. Where did they go? Can we get some familial DNA going on? Where's that ancestry? All of us need to sign up for it right now. 23 years in me. Number two, who really was Fannie Norton? Why would she murder Katie, someone she barely knew? I'm using quotes. Yeah. And if she wasn't motivated, or if she was motivated by robbery, why did she leave that solid gold ring on her finger? And it's very unlikely that she acted alone, right? I mean, I would think so. She had to subdue a mother. And here she had to have subdued this mother who had plans to go to Ripley, to take the train to Ripley. But for some reason she got off in Weatherford and then stayed the night and then gets in a buggy to go to Hydro. That's nowhere near where – I don't know if that's near the route you would go, but why would you take a buggy when you have train tickets? Well, I mean, the art of deception. Exactly. And my mind is, did she subdue Katie, like threaten her, make threats to her? I mean, she obviously had a gun on her, so did she make some sort of threats on her? Or did she just come up behind Katie and shoot her in the back? I mean, the gunshot was behind her ear. I don't know. Not having all the information, you know, it's hard to make a judgment on it. But, like, to me, like it seems more likely that Katie didn't see it coming. Right. That maybe Fannie was super persuasive and was like, well, hey, why don't we go this way? And, you know, I don't know what she could have said. And then just out of nowhere. Because it wouldn't be that odd to have a gun if you're on a buggy making a long trip. That's true. And you're too limited. And it's 1905. And Fannie is a known sex worker, so I'm sure she carried. Yeah. This is another mystery. Most believed Martin hired Fannie to kill Katie. He definitely had motivation. Knowing he wouldn't see a dime if the divorce was granted, It was also speculated that Martin could have been a client to Fannie's and propositioned her to commit the crime. Well, I mean, that seems more likely. Exactly. So, we're here for the ghost, though. Well, okay. But what about Fannie's supposed husband? Nothing reported on him. I mean. He didn't claim her body when she died, so. Maybe she didn't have a husband. I think they did. She was recorded as having a husband. I think his name was recorded. Like in papers and stuff. Because it was reported that he owned that buggy rental company. So. Not convinced. I think. Well, what I think is he saw his wife got into some hot water, and he didn't want to have anything to do with her at that point. And being 1905, what are they going to do? He can escape his way out of there, and he didn't have anything to do with her. And plus, if she left quickly after that, he may not know where she went. It's not like they could make a phone call. Yeah. So. But let's talk about the ghost. Okie dokie. I kind of want to drive here. Of course you do. I've asked my husband and my coworker, who lived in Weatherford for a little while. I've asked them both questions, like if they've been there. Well, what was their response? One of them, yes. The other one, no. It is reported that both the bridge and the riverbed are haunted. On moonlit nights, stand under the bridge. You can hear the sound of a woman, believed to be Katie, calling out for her missing child, which really kind of kills me. That would be really sad. When you stand beneath the bridge, it's said you can hear a buggy go over the bridge, hear the stomping and clomping of the horse's hooves. Then you hear a sudden crack, perhaps the sound of a gun or a body hitting tree branches. Then a splash in the water, like something was thrown in or dropped off the side of the bridge. Of course, when you look, there's never any buggy on the bridge, and there's nothing in the water. The interesting thing is, this bridge has been converted to a cement bridge. It was a wooden one. I believe what people have said is it still sounds like it's wooden. You still hear the sounds of the wooden bridge, but it's concrete now. It doesn't make the same sound, but you hear the same sound. It is believed to be the spectral replay of Katie's death over and over, which kind of stinks. Other spooky happenings that have been reported here. UFO sightings. Cattle mutilations. Mysterious black-robed people performing rituals there at midnight. I'm sorry. Did you say mysterious black-robed people? Robed. Oh, robed. I was like, what is that? I don't know. I don't know what that is, but black-robed people. Okay. It is believed that there were satanic rituals there at times. Okay. On a different legend is this one. This one's from the Casey Ghost article that I read. Mm-hmm. The, quote, dead woman was a passerby who had her baby with her as she was crossing the bridge in her wagon. She had been attacked, and her head had been cut off. This poor woman was then tied between two trees and left on display. As the legend went, it had been several days before anyone spotted her. Her ghost was said to wander this location looking for either her head or her baby. This leads many people to believe those are the cold spots under the bridge. Now, that was one of the rumors that had gone around because come to find out that this location is extremely popular with the college crowd. Well, of course it is. And teenagers and stuff. And so that was one of, I think people didn't know the actual history, or maybe they knew parts of it. And so they made up their own little urban legend. People will come to find out, this is how I started it, their urban legend is true. Just not all their details are correct. Yeah. So another story from the Casey Ghost. We had a flood that washed out the new bridge. What was left was a very dangerous immediate drop-off from the road to the river bottom that had already receded to its usual low state. Her friend, the reporter's friend, was standing on the edge of this broken road looking down into the riverbed when he felt himself start to lose his balance. Suddenly, he felt what seemed to be a hand pushing him backwards to stop him from falling off the bridge. Oh, that would be crazy. Yes. The wooden bridge was replaced with a concrete one, get this, nearly 80 years after the death of Katie Dewitt James. So 1985-ish. Oh, the year I was born. Under the bridge is very popular for both college kids to hang out and ghost investigators. There are many pictures of the present day bridge. They're so creepy. Is there a troll under the bridge? No, Jess, there's not. Oh, that was dumb. So my co-worker, she lived in Weatherford, and she passed over the bridge many times. She says it's very spooky, but nothing supernatural ever happened to her. Did she obviously know? She knew, yeah. She did know it, yes, because I had asked her. I feel like that would feed into the fear, though. Well, when you look at some of the pictures, I mean, granted, they probably take the pictures on misty nights and stuff, but they do kind of look creepy. And there's a lot of graffiti on them now, and so it just kind of adds to the creep factor. Yes, yes, yes, exactly. So like I mentioned before, my husband, he is an alum of SWASU. He had never heard about it, and he never visited anywhere of that description. Because I was like, did you go to any of these college parties, like a bonfire, like under a bridge? And he was like, no. So that is the story of Dead Woman's Crossing. Interesting. And will you hand me that? What? The pad. Or not the pad, the notebook. And it was actually a listener request from – oh, I didn't write their name down, but it was a listener request. Oh, okay. I tried to write down the names, and I forgot to on that one. But it was a listener request, so I hope that you liked it. That was interesting. That was really interesting. So let's go to Weatherford. And at midnight, we'll stand over the bridge. Oh. Come on. There's going to be other people there, I'm sure. Well, maybe not right now, because college isn't in session. They're all on winter break. What are you doing tomorrow? I'm just kidding. I know, so am I. I'll be in Branson. I'm going to the in-laws tomorrow. I know. We have so many places that we need to go. I know. That we need to go visit. I know. But yeah. That was interesting. I'm glad. I'm glad you liked it. Of course. I was more interested in the actual crime story. That's okay. Always, Jess. Always. But yeah. Well, if you have any show suggestions or places you'd like Jess and I to look into, please feel free to reach out to us at CuriousCousinsOK at gmail.com. You can find us on all of our socials, including Facebook, Instagram, and X. And, of course, we would love for you to rate, follow, and review our show. And we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.