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Listen to Ep 62 Gregory Canatis by Curious Cousins OK Podcast MP3 song. Ep 62 Gregory Canatis song from Curious Cousins OK Podcast is available on Audio.com. The duration of song is 01:02:13. This high-quality MP3 track has 112.293 kbps bitrate and was uploaded on 8 Dec 2023. Stream and download Ep 62 Gregory Canatis by Curious Cousins OK Podcast for free on Audio.com – your ultimate destination for MP3 music.
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The Curious Cousins talk about their recent experiences in Oklahoma, including a visit to the Will Rogers Memorial Museum and the Fulbright Festival of Light. They also discuss their upcoming plans and then delve into the story of the Oklahoma Cannibal, a gruesome case from 1977. Listener discretion is advised due to the graphic nature of the case. Hi, I'm Jess, and I'm Tiff, and we're your Curious Cousins, where we talk about everything kooky and spooky in the state of Oklahoma. Welcome to Episode 62. Welcome. How are you? Good, now that the wink's almost over. It's just been one of those weeks, you know, at work where it's, I mean, it hasn't been bad, but, you know, you get those people who, and you're just like, I just need to do my job. That's all I ask. There you go. But, I mean. It's not too much to ask. It was fine. It was fine. Oh, well, good. Good. How was your, or, how are you? Obviously, I've lost the ability to speak. It's fine, it's fine. It's a good thing it's my case today, then. Yeah, right. I'm good. I got to go on a field trip for the very first time as a mom and not the teacher. I know. So, the Bubba and I went to the Will Rogers Memorial Museum in Claremore. Nice. And it was amazing. It's certainly a gem. Also, Jess, this time next year, we better have a Christmas tree in the pod lab, and we're going to have Oklahoma ornaments on it. Yeah? Yes. That is my goal. You all can send us your Oklahoma ornaments to our P.O. Box. And, yeah, because I want to decorate in here. Because they had one there at the museum in the gift shop, and it was so pretty. But, it really is a hidden gem. It has a lot of his stuff, and it shares a lot about his life before, during, and after. And, it's a really cool place to visit. I mean, he really is Oklahoma's favorite son. Yeah. And, it was just really neat, the stuff that you could get to see and that my child learned. And, their gift shop ladies were so sweet. They were just so nice. I love gift shops. I do, too. Who doesn't love a good gift shop, especially a museum gift shop? But, so, Harrison, so, Bubba really likes to collect rocks. And, of course, they had one of those things, like, fill the bag up for $5. Yeah. Well, he was over there filling it up, and the little lady comes over, and she goes, you make sure you cram that thing full. And, he was like, okay. And, he goes, well, you know, he goes, I think I'm only going to get like six rocks. And, she's like, no, you cram it full. And, we literally, at one point, I took them all out to rearrange them in the bag so he could get more rocks in. That's funny. And, when he walked over to him, he's like, I don't even know if she's going to let me get this one because it won't even close. And, she goes, that's perfect. It's not supposed to close. Oh, nice. It was so nice. So, just a lot of fun stuff in there, a lot of good books, a lot of books that were out of production about Will Rogers. And, if I had had my spending money with me, I probably would have got a few things. Confession. Okay. So, I went to school in Verdigris, which is just down the river from Claremore, literally. And, I have never been to the Will Rogers Museum in Claremore. And, I should go. It was fun. It's a cute little, like if you just have like a free afternoon or something, you know, a couple of hours, you can get through it. But, it really could cool the amount of artifacts that they do have. I mean, obviously, his wife had a hand in helping build it. Well, we'll have to go sometime. Yes, we will. We will. It'll be fun. So, if you're ever in the Claremore area, I highly recommend the Will Rogers Museum. Nice. So, yeah. Anything that you want to talk about? Anything you need to talk about? We went to Fulbright Festival of Light. We did. This past Saturday. We did. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. It's always such a pretty event. I know. Honestly, I just love the filbrick in general. I do, too. That is a not-so-hidden gem of Fulbright. It's just so pretty, you know? It is. And, honestly, I like the neighborhood it's in. I like going around seeing all the Christmas pictures. I know. All the Christmas lights. Okay, listen. So, trying to find a parking spot was a nightmare. Like, horribly. Yeah, every year. That's a nightmare. And so, my mom and I came with your family, but we drove separately, right? So, we're trying to find this parking spot. Tiff got one, like, immediately. In the parking garage. In the parking. I was on the top level. Like, lame, okay? Like, I literally turned in, and there was one. We spent probably 20 minutes, if not longer, looking for a spot to park. And you literally have to park on the side of the curb on the street. Right. In front of some random person's house. And hope they don't have a sign that says, don't park there. Right. So, we were, like, trying to find a spot, right? And it's packed. Like, everywhere is just, you can't find anything without walking five miles. And we also went the second weekend it was open. Right. So, that might have been our problem, too. So, I was cracking up because my mom was, okay, my mom was driving. And she would be, like, oh, look at those lights. Oh, look at that. And I would be, like, focus, focus. You're only looking for a parking spot. Because look at the lights. We have to walk past it. It was funny. That is funny. But it was. It's so pretty. And it's fun. I had to come home and give the Bubba some hot chocolate. Because I didn't let him get any while we were there. You know, honestly, it's probably, okay, no offense to anybody who either works there or makes the hot chocolate there. But, I mean, it was $6. You can go on a quick trip and get a fantastic cup of hot chocolate for not even half of that. Right. Right. I didn't even see what the price was. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was $6. So, yeah. I was kind of disappointed that the overholster wasn't doing their breakfast with Santa. If they are, I haven't gotten notification because I really wanted to go back this year and do it. But I don't think that they are, which kind of makes me sad. I wonder if there was something going on. Possibly, yeah. You're right. You know, I never know what's going on. But it was disappointing. Yeah. My kids really enjoyed it. And my niece and nephews, they enjoyed going, too. And it's always cool just to go to the overholster mansion. Yeah. I know it was not one time last year. I wouldn't mind going back. Yeah. Bucket list of things to do. We've got a lot. I know. So, today's case, it's a doozy. It was requested. Okay, first off, I work with the most eclectic group of people. First and foremost, I work with a relative of Jean Leroy Hart. That's so crazy. And I didn't know that she was related to him until after our episode kind of aired. And she kind of got me and was like, hey, just so you know. By the way. And I was like, oh, my gosh. But she was totally on board with our beliefs and totally believed it all. That's good. Because I was, like, real nervous at first. And then, of course, I've talked to you about my IT guy. He's very, very sensitive to paranormal stuff. And then this next teacher that I work with is related to the Oklahoma Cannibal. Have you heard of him? Only through you. Right. So, this case was requested to us. And I really didn't check with her to see if I could use her name. So, I'm not going to use her name. Although, her and her sister are listening to this. So, by process of elimination, everyone probably knows who it is now. But if they know her. So, yeah, I'm going to cover the Oklahoma Cannibal. Tell me a story. Did you know there was an Oklahoma Cannibal? No, not particularly. Before this story, before she had approached me with this story, I didn't know there was one either. I mean, I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, the media has dubbed him the Oklahoma Cannibal. He didn't dub himself that. But I actually listened to a podcast by the True Crime Blog. And it actually was an Oklahoma podcast. It just looks like they've posted it over a year. I don't know if they're taking a hiatus or if they've just decided that that wasn't their jam anymore. But they actually did a short episode over the Oklahoma Cannibal. And then there were just news articles throughout the Daily Oklahoman and the Tulsa World that I used. So, both of those are sources. And then I actually have access to the psychological report from Dr. Lorraine Schmidt from 1977. Whoa. So, I'm going to set the scene first. Okay. For you. Sorry. No, you're fine. I just, like, not feeling funny, but just. Because the weather's like. First, I want to give a trigger warning. Okay. This case is obviously about cannibalism. It is probably not for our younger listeners. It does kind of. I do get into kind of graphic detail at times. Okay. So, I'm just kind of putting that warning out there. I, you know, I have a seven, eight-year-old. I would not let them listen to this episode. Or I won't be letting them listen to this episode. It's really weird that I let them listen to other episodes because that's really weird to listen to your own voice sometimes. Yeah. So, here we go. Thursday, May 5th, 1977 probably started as a normal day for Midwest City police officers Steve Taylor and Phil Anderson. They were on the beat when they were asked to respond to a welfare check requested by some neighbors of Theodore Canadas. Neighbors hadn't seen him in a few days. Ted, as his family members called him, lived in a two-story townhouse there in Midwest City with his son Gregory. When officers arrived, they knocked on the door and there was no answer. Being that this was a welfare check, the officers were able to go look around and peek in windows and stuff. While walking around the house, they noticed one of the upstairs windows was opened. I think it's because they saw the drapes kind of billowing. Like fluttering. Yeah, exactly. Fluttering in the breeze. Where was I now? Well, so, because this was a welfare check, they did have the right to kind of approach and try to get in or look in the window. So, using a picnic table, Taylor helped Anderson inside, then Anderson pulled Taylor up. What greeted them was essentially a nightmarish scene. It was immediately clear that something awful had happened. Blood literally covered everything. It was everywhere. It was on the dresser. It was in the hall. It was in the bathroom. Oh, my gosh. So much so that officers immediately jumped to this had-to-be-a-murder scene. The bathroom seemed to have the most amount of blood in it, and so they were quoted as saying that they just believed something had been dismembered in that bathroom with the amount of blood that was everywhere. So, officers Taylor and Anderson, they make their way downstairs to the kitchen where they notice a skillet on the stove with meat in it. They didn't really think anything of it initially. Inside the refrigerator, they found more unpackaged meat, and it was weird. It was unpackaged, you know, whatever. Still didn't really think anything about it until this. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Upon opening the freezer, and I can't imagine their faces when this happened. You can only assume a look of pure horror. They probably threw up, if it's anything of what I'm thinking. Well, possibly. Maybe. I don't know. Inside, they found two frozen hands that appeared to be in kind of like a clutching. Gross. Officer Taylor was later quoted as saying, I had once worked at a mortuary and had never seen hands like that. Oh, my gosh. And at this point, Taylor and Anderson confirmed that this is definitely a crime scene, and they exit the townhouse and immediately call for backup. It was quickly assumed the meat in the skillet and freezer and refrigerator was probably human and probably that of Theodore Conant. Oh, my goodness. I'm going to re-say it because I messed up his last name. Okay. Probably that of Theodore. I'm just not going to say his last name anymore because I can't remember how to say it right. Officer Taylor was visibly shaken. Who wouldn't be? Right. Oh, my goodness. I just had nightmares about that. Police swarmed the area looking for clues, removing what was left of the body for autopsy. The biggest question, though, was where was Gregory? And that's the son, right? Yes. And so neighbors had reported that they had seen him around. In fact, a few days before, he had been seen dumping meat into the townhouse's, like, collective garbage can or garbage dumpster. Oh, no. Once police wrapped up the scene, they left. I assume that there was some sort of bolo or something put out to the public, which definitely helped because later that night, Gregory was found by his neighbors asleep outside the townhouse. His own townhouse? Right, yeah. So some people stated that he might have been sleeping in the bushes outside the townhouse or maybe he was just on the front porch. Police did quickly respond and picked Gregory up, taking him in for questioning. How strange. Upon coming to the police station, Greg was very open and apologetic. They assumed what they were seeing was an obvious mental break or mental health issue was happening. When completing their case, they believed that they were actually witnessing a clear case of insanity. Oh, my gosh. So how did this happen? Like, one doesn't just break and murder their dad and eat him for days, or do they? I mean, I guess we're about to find out. So let's start talking about Gregory Wayne. Canatus, Canatus, Canatus. Gregory Wayne Canatus. He was born November 17, 1956, in Wichita, Kansas. He was the second of three boys to parents, Theodore, who was age 21, and Betty, age 19. So they were very young. And he was the second. He had an older brother, Neal, who was two years older than him, and a brother, Wayne, who was six years younger than him. Theodore, or Ted, as his family called him, was in the United States Air Force, which allowed for the family to move around a lot. At about two years old, the family moved to Okinawa, Japan. Here they stayed for three years. Then they moved to Georgia for three years. Then they moved to Guam. And then they ended up in New Mexico. Ted served in the Air Force for 20 years, even seeing combat aircraft. Ted served in the Air Force for 20 years, even seeing combat in Vietnam. It's unclear how long Ted was in Vietnam, but Greg believed he was there for a couple of years. Around 1969, Ted and Betty divorced. And what's sad is it is speculated that this divorce possibly came about six months after he returned from Vietnam. So no telling what that was. I mean, it happens all the time, so it's not why we're here. That's my stomach making weird noises. Betty remarried and moved herself and her sons to Virginia, then eventually to Kauai, Hawaii. It's really fun to say Kauai, Hawaii. Betty's new husband worked at a missile tracking station. Betty was a secretary for Dyne Electron Government Installation. So it sounded like they both had pretty good jobs with the government. The relationship between the mother and the son was really good. Between stepfather and son was really good. He had a good relationship with his brothers. Nothing could be found out of the ordinary. The stepfather would even go and do things with the boys, so it wasn't like your typical, you know, psycho situation, you know what I mean? In 1976, Gregory graduated from high school in Kauai. While growing up, he suffered from Osgood-Schlanter's disease in both of his knees, and what that is, I had to look it up. Yeah, I've never heard of it before. It's an overuse condition or an injury of the knee that causes a painful bump and swelling on the shin bone right below the knee. Osgood-Schlanter disease typically affects kids during their pre-adolescent growth spurt in tweens from about 10 to 13 for girls and early teens 12 to 14 for boys. Interesting. So it's pretty, I think, normal. Okay. Looking back, he may or may not have had the best educational experience. He did claim that he was in special reading classes, but all of his other classes that he took, like including his math and science and social studies, were all general education or normal classes. He also said that he purposely failed those reading classes so that he could get into the easier classes because he felt like he was a, quote, slow reader. I wonder if he had, like, dyslexia or something. Maybe. I never said anything, but definitely. Maybe he did have some sort of reading disability, but it was never. Maybe he didn't. Maybe he was lazy. Right. Exactly. During his junior year of high school, he was expelled for smoking weed at school. Oh. He loved the social and natural science classes that he took. He did state at one time that he dreamed of becoming a veterinarian and moving to Africa to work with all types of animals. But here's a kooky fact. Later in interviews, that veterinarian statement, he would deny it. He would deny ever wanting to be a vet. And so you're going to see this pattern of him stating things, and then later he would deny it. So it's definitely a case of definite mental illness there. Greg's history is very vague. His timelines didn't always match up or they were unclear. And so I gave doctors. They were very unsure of what. And, you know, when I kind of was reading this, his case file and stuff, I was looking at it and thinking, you know, he could really have had some sort of handicap cognitively, but then he also could have been extremely manipulative. Yeah. I mean, you're so telling. Because I think at times you kind of – I kind of saw manipulation. And even I think it was stated by some doctors that sometimes he would say things because he thought that's what you wanted to hear, like he knew. Oh, yeah. So Greg worked at a Navy base in Hawaii and a restaurant as a busboy while going to school. Now, I don't know if this restaurant was on the base or if he had two jobs, like he worked at a restaurant and on the base and went to school. Greg claimed that he wanted to become a server, but he was never able to get the order straight. He did work there for three years at the restaurant. And he said he handled working very well, but later on coworkers and supervisors said that he really did poorly and made no advancements, and that ultimately they cut him down to working only one day a week. Around October or November, the exact date is really unclear. Some people recorded it in October. Greg said it was in November of 1976. He's now 20. He decides that he wants to visit his father on the mainland, being Midwest City, Oklahoma. That's the mainland is where he's going to go. He claims and tells everyone it was strictly voluntary and not forced and that he just wanted to see his dad. It wasn't mentioned how long it had been since he had seen his actual father, but that he wanted to visit his dad. Rumors or claims were made that Gregory and Betty, his mom, had gotten into an argument, and he claims it was over TV watching and that she kicked him out. How old was he at this time? Twenty. He, of course, goes back and forth on this statement saying, oh, no, no, no, no, there was nothing wrong, nothing wrong. He was asked multiple times during his mental health evaluations if he had had a sexual relationship or desired a sexual relationship with his mother, and he vehemently denied it. Now, this is something that I could find no evidence that there was ever a relationship of that type between the two. It was never confirmed or denied by his mother. I'm also really unsure why he was asked that type of question, and at times he was asked it repeatedly. I don't know if that's a normal question to be asked when you're having some sort of psychiatric evaluation or not, but I don't know because it doesn't seem like his crime was in sexual nature, so I don't know. I don't know. I'm not even going to pretend to be a psychologist or a psychiatrist. Ted had remarried at this time to a woman named Faye. It was believed that they may have divorced by the time that Greg had moved in. However, she was still living at the townhouse with Ted. Ted was working nights at the Oklahoma Health Science Center there in Oklahoma City. He's kind of like their fix-it man. He would do some custodial work, but he was also kind of like the handyman fixing things. He was, I believe, well-liked there, and I think he was also part of, or they were part of the reason that there was also kind of a welfare check because he hadn't come to work in a few days. The arrangement with Faye living at the townhouse didn't last long because Faye and Greg did not get along. Greg stated that he was very hopeful he would find work in Oklahoma, and he had no intention of returning to Hawaii. I don't know why it's Hawaii. However, it was found out that during this time, Greg only applied for one job, and it was at a local pizza parlor, and he claims that he didn't get the job because right after he applied for the job, on January 20th of 1977, he was admitted to St. Anthony's Hospital's psychiatric unit there in Oklahoma City. He had some lacerations on his leg because he had attempted a suicide. So I wanted to read a direct quote from Gregory that was recorded in his psychiatric evaluation. It's from page 4 of Dr. Schmidt's evaluation that she had of him, and so he says, There was nothing to do, and I was thinking about my friends, but I couldn't go back to Hawaii. Kauai High, maybe. It's K-A-U-A. I don't know how to pronounce that. I'm sorry. Because there were a lot of guys after me. He says, A Filipino man pointed a gun at me one time, came down to the road. I didn't tell anybody, but it looked funny. I didn't think anything about it until I landed here. He says, When I cut myself, I let too much blood go. So he had been bleeding for about two hours, and his dad finally returned from work and found him in the bathtub because after he had cut himself, Greg decided he changed his mind about dying. He didn't want to die. And so he had gotten to the bathtub to try to keep the blood from running out. I don't know if it was to help prop up his leg or what was going on, but that's where his dad found him, and his dad kind of picked him up and took him to the hospital. And then here's another quote that he had about it. He says his telling Dr. Collins that he was letting out bad blood was a lie. Dr. Collins, I believe, was at St. Anthony. And so he had initially told him that he was letting out the bad blood. That sounds like Middle Ages kind of stuff. Right, exactly. But then he admitted to Dr. Schnipp that was a lie, that he had gotten fed up with the whole, and excuse my language, shit my father was feeding me, and I was really so depressed that he wanted to die and then changed his mind. So it's just, ugh. Sorry. No, you're fine. So it's unclear how long Greg may have stayed at St. Anthony's. All I do know is that obviously he was released by May of 1977. While at St. Anthony's, Gregory shaved his hair all off. Okay, sorry I'm interrupting. No, you're fine. But what gets me is there are so many red flags that he's not okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Definitely I think, I don't necessarily know that the system failed him. I think that they're, and I'm getting ahead of myself, but I think that he was able to hide a lot of it. Is this part of the manipulation you were talking about earlier? I possibly think so. Either that or I just think that, you know, maybe he was just one of those people that people just deemed, oh, he's just a little silly, he's just a little funny, you know, and they just kind of brushed it under the rug when really there was some mental illness. And I truly believe that he did suffer from a mental illness, but I also believe that he manipulated his way through it possibly, maybe to get off punishment. But I don't know. I don't know. So anyway, he shaved all his hair off. And he states that he didn't do it because he had lice. He was very adamant. He was like, I didn't have lice. And I think the doctors, I imagine the doctors were like, what do you mean? That's weird. Where did that come from? He simply did it because he wanted to. He did it for kicks and cleanliness and because some good surfers did it. But here's a kooky fact. Gregory did, in fact, contract lice, but from a previous night spent in jail due to a traffic violation and lipping off to an officer in Midwest City. Oh, gosh. So I think that's probably why he got so defensive. And you'll find out he gets super defensive about any question that he's really asked. So May 2nd, 1977. At some point, okay, he was released from St. Anthony's. I couldn't find the date when he was released. But May 2nd, 1977. Here are the events of the day as told by Gregory to Dr. Schmidt. Okay. And I'll kind of throw in what the police believed during it as well. Greg and Ted got into an argument where Gregory killed his father with a big knife. Those were his straight words. Okay. Did he say what the argument was or anything? We'll get into it. Okay. Gregory left the house and returned to find his father dead. He states that he was scared and didn't know what to do or where to go because he didn't know the roads. He believed if he had just been able to leave or go away, he might not have been caught. So this leads me to believe that there may be a tiny bit of narcissism in there, that he believed he wasn't going to get caught. Well, it almost makes it sound premeditated. He says he and his dad, they were fighting over Greg just sitting around and doing nothing. He was sick of it, and Ted seemed to think he shouldn't worry that he would eventually find a job. Gregory said that that's what he wanted. He wanted to find a job. He wanted to have money. He wanted to have a car. But he just got into this almost like this depression and this funk because he couldn't find a job. But it looks like he only applied himself once. And he's been there since October or November, and here it is May. And you couldn't find something? But his dad seemed to be, you know, you shouldn't worry about it. Well, it doesn't sound like he was hounding him like, oh, go out and get a job. But then at times he would claim his dad fussed at him about it. So it's really unclear. I actually wonder if he had maybe asked like, hey, how's the job hunting going on? And then he took that as him fussing. Oh, you're probably right. You're probably right. Gregory said that his father often fussed at him because he was messy and he didn't take the trash out. He even reported that Ted would snap at him a lot and then be nice to him, which, like, as a mom, I can see, like, you snap at your child one second, and then you're probably kind of nice to him the next. It's just one of those things that happens. I mean, anybody would be frustrated if you had an adult child living with you. Well, I'm thinking about not finding a job but then at the same time not going out. Not helping with anything and being messy. I mean, I can see how that could be frustrating. Right. So, again, Gregory would say he did want a job. He wanted a car. Money seemed to be a big issue in the household. And then the next sentence he would say that food was an issue in the house, and he was accused of eating all the time because he said there was nothing else to do, so he just ate all the time. So if he is eating all the time, he can't really be accused of it if he's actually doing it. And then, you know, Gregory also said that the only money he had was from his tax return, but then later he would say, oh, but my dad would give me money to go out and do things. Ted allegedly disliked the way that Greg dressed, which, in my mind, he's like, well, he's from Hawaii. He probably was dressing like a surfer person. He's coming to the Bible Belt of America, to Oklahoma. Well, he's used to a place that is sunshine and great weather all the time. Right. Whereas you come to Oklahoma. He comes in November. South Central United States. And it's cold. Yeah. We have four seasons. Exactly. We used to have four seasons. He didn't like how Greg kept house and probably just essentially that Greg didn't clean up after himself. Greg also said that he disliked the type of food Ted purchased, claiming many times that the food would be rotten or spoiled and he was still expected to eat it. So Gregory claims that he had no intention of killing his father at the time, but they got into a fight and there was a new butcher knife laying out. Oh, goodness. This is going to be a trigger warning. This is gory. Some sort of physical altercation took place between the two men, but somehow Gregory got Ted down and used the knife and Ted's throat. That is when he ran from the house, later coming back to find his father dead. You know, it's so easy to blame someone when they're not around to defend themselves. Right. So we have no idea. Oh, yeah. What actually. And I don't know if neighbors ever reported that they, you know, would hear constant fighting or anything, or they would, you know, see struggles. I didn't find that anywhere that any of the neighbors were ever reported on that. So it's really unclear like what type of relationship that they had, or even like if he had told his brothers or his mother what type of relationship that they had. So, and you'll find out like later that he doesn't really have any friends, which I know is a sign of psychosis. Does Faye say anything about it? She didn't really, no. But it's kind of like what, like you didn't, like why did you not get along? Why did you not like, and I couldn't find that information either. Because I was curious about what she saw. Yeah. Relating to a wife between father and son. I would be too. So he comes back to the house and he finds his father dead. In order to not get caught, this is Gregory's reasoning, he decided that he had to get rid of the body. I don't like where this is going. So he decided to cut it up, put the guts in the dresser drawer, removing what, quote, meat he could find from the bones and freezing or refrigerating it. This is also the time that he started to cook the, quote, meat. Gregory is quoted as saying, I was mad at him, so I chewed him up. It made me stronger. Gregory also believed that by eating his father, he kept his father's spirit alive. And I will tell you that Gregory is from native descent. He, hang on, where did I, where is it at, where is it at, where is it at? Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Greg had claimed that his father was in good health, just had a bad temper a lot of time, that he drank a lot and was drunk at times. He also called his, and this is incredibly ugly, and it's a derogatory term. And I don't know why Greg would say this, because he is part of his father, so he actually would share these traits. But he said, my father was brown, he was Indian. I think he was Sioux, maybe part Mohawk, part Italian or Greek. And they were like, well, what makes you think that you're Italian? And he said, well, because my grandmother made meatballs. I did find out from my co-worker that they were part Greek. She didn't necessarily know exactly what tribe that they were from. I know that she is native, and I'm not sure if they were of the same tribe. I mean, they could have been of the same tribes, but he could have claimed a different tribe, because sometimes if there's mixed blood, they can be different tribes. So, this is extremely morbid, and I'm sorry, guys. This is not you all's episode, I apologize. Gregory, when given the chance to have fresh meat, he took it. He stated he would rather eat it than throw it out. This is his father, I'm going to remind you. Later, Gregory would tell his attorney that the hawk eagles made him do it. I didn't know what a hawk eagle was. I had to look that up. Hawk eagles are eagles adapted to live, and they look more like hawks. However, they reside in Mexico and Belize, and not Oklahoma, so it's kind of weird. I don't know where he got that from. Again, this is another trigger. This is a hard one. Gregory believed the meat to taste good. It tasted like beef. Eating his father didn't bother him, and he believed no one would find out. In all, he claims that he probably ate 30 pounds of meat. I'm sorry. It gets worse. He boiled the heart. I don't know if I'm going to make it through this episode. Boiled the heart, okay. Usually baking other portions that he removed. Obviously, when the police showed up, he was sautéing it in a skillet from someone. During one interview, he claimed to have eaten the head and specifically the brains first. Later, though, he denies this statement, changing his claim to breaking the skull up and throwing it away. Gregory does admit to bagging up the innards, fat, and bones and placing it— Said he left in the dresser? Mm-hmm, and other—that he pounded himself with. Oh, gosh. Placed them in the dumpster behind the townhouse. Police would later search the dumpster and eventually the landfill to try to find remains of Ted. Did they? They did. They did. I don't know if they did find any or not, but they did search. No, that's what I meant. Did they find the— Oh, I'm not sure if they did find anything. Gregory told doctors that he was surprised to see the police show up four days after he had murdered his father. He admitted— Why would that surprise you? Because he didn't think he was going to get caught. I don't know how he didn't— Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. He admitted to going out the upstairs window when he saw the cops show up, and he hid in the bushes. He told doctors that the fights with his father were frequent, but this one was just extra bad. I would say. However, he never gave a reason to how or why this one was extra bad. Huh. It's just so odd. Right. Later, Greg claimed that his father pushed him to the floor and kicked him. There was never any type of report saying that they found any type of bruising on him. But then again, it had—at least four days had passed, so I don't know. Well, you do have some kind of bruising, I would think. And he was 20, too, on top of that. So I'm kind of like, you know, your body probably doesn't show that kind of stuff as easily as, say, a 40-year-old body. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a 40-year-old. I mean, I'm close. But, I mean, I've always bruised easily. Right. I mean, his father was 41 when he passed away, so that was really young. Yeah, super young. So May 6, 1977—again, remember, that's when officers Steve Taylor and Phil Anderson respond to that welfare check at the townhouse. I bet they have regrets. I hope that they do, too. Later that evening, police would arrest Gregory, finding him asleep outside the house and charging him with first-degree murder. Gregory was assigned a public defender by the name of Garvin A. Isaacs. Hmm. Cookie fact. Hmm. Does that name sound familiar? No. Okay. Should it? Yeah. He was the same defense attorney that would later defend Gene Leroy Hart. Oh! And to this day, he still practices law as one of the most well-known defense attorneys in the state of Oklahoma. Holy cow! Now I feel dumb that I didn't say that. Here's another trigger warning. In a meeting for the first time, Isaacs discovered Gregory to be covered in blood. He had cut his genitals, and there was blood everywhere. And it never really came out saying that this was another possible suicide attack—or not suicide attack, but suicide attempt. He had smuggled a little small knife in with him, and I don't know how they didn't find it. Where did he smuggle it in at? I don't know. Why would you want to cut that area anyway? And so an ambulance was called, and they had to rush Gregory to the hospital, and he was stitched up. At this point, the district judge ordered a psyche valve to be done, and Gregory was sent to Central State Hospital in Norman. He was to spend 60 days in evaluation there. So eating his father wasn't enough, or did they know at this time? He admitted to a police that he had done it. But him cutting his private parts was what threw it to the edge? I think so, yeah. I think so. I would think he would need to go get a psyche valve if he admitted to eating his father. I think so, too. Oh, my goodness. This is crazy. I mean, this is just, like, mind-blowing. It is. This is like true life happened. During this period, Gregory's stories changed a lot. Again, his timelines were off, and he would seem vague at times. He said he had no friends except those he met while being treated at St. Anthony's, and those might not have been the healthiest friends to have. And there's nothing saying that he kept up with those friendships after he left the hospital. After Gregory was released from St. Francis, he did not follow up and see any other doctors regarding his mental health. The next doctor he saw was after he'd been arrested and ordered to this facility in Norman for an evaluation. When he was admitted, doctors recorded Gregory as being a 20-year-old, white male, 5'11", 170 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes, clean and neat in appearance, dressed appropriately. However, he exhibited a flat expression, seemed distant with an underlying hostility. Were you fair and evil in the eyes? Oh, man. It just gives me the heebies. He had an irritable mood and often snapped at the examiners. He didn't like to repeat his answers or be asked the same questions over again. He frowned most of the time. But then he acted almost like it was an act to, quote, be, you know, slow-minded or mentally handicapped. They almost thought that he was acting it. Yet when you spoke to him, his language was of age and education appropriate, but he did act very childlike at times. So it's almost, I don't know, was he being manipulative? I don't know. I don't know. Here are some of the answers, like the simple answers I think that they ask everybody when they come in for evaluations. Like, you know, he knew he was in the hospital. He knew it was 1977. He knew Jimmy Carter was president. However, there were 52 states in the Union. There were 15 stripes on the U.S. flag. Alaska was the last state to enter the Union. He could do math, but they didn't specify, like, what type of math that they were giving him. But I imagine, like, he could do multiplication, division, addition. Basic math. Yeah, basic math, yeah. But they say that he had a good grasp on the proper usage of the English language. He was good grammatically. He denied that he had any thought disorder. However, there is evidence in his past indicated that he was delusional and even hallucinated at times, and then they would go on to say that they experienced that while in the hospital's custody. He claimed that he heard his brother's voice a lot and even would see his face at times, but they never stated which brother it was. Did one of his brothers pass? No, they never said, because at the time of this all happening, his oldest brother was a year older than him, a year or two older than him. Yeah. So he was working, I think, at a hotel there in Hawaii, and his other brother was in the eighth grade. Oh. So he was always very defensive, and he was capable of denying things, that he did anything. The doctors did state that good judgment and reasoning, it appeared in relation to generalities. However, it is stated, the doctors did state that this could have been an act, or he could just be in a good place currently. Interesting. So I think he had, I don't know that he had the doctors fooled, but I think the doctors were like, he could be trying to fool us, or he really could be having some sort of good day right now, you know. Right. His judgment, though, was severely impaired when it came to his dad's death and dismemberment. He just seemed like, that's what had to happen. Like, we got into a fight, that's what had to happen. Like, I had to kill him, I had to dismember him, and I had to eat him. I don't even know what to say to that, you know. His psychomotor skills, and this is, I had to look this one up, too. Psychomotor skills are a technique that influence the intentional act to stimulate or modify by using bodily activity, or are an approach to educational intervention that aims to develop motor, expressive, and creative possibilities through the body. So his were slightly stimulated at times, but depressed at other times. He seemed very disturbed and agitated on May 19th of 1977 due to being in seclusion. He claimed that he was in seclusion because he was being too slow in the shower. Then he turns around and admitted that he was purposely being too slow, and he didn't mind being in seclusion, and that he even deserved it. I think there is definitely some mental health going on, for sure. He refused to talk about his father or the events that led up to his arrest on his initial visit into the hospital. Later visits, he would respond to questions openly, but they'd be pretty brief and abrupt. He continued to show delusional thinking when it came to his father's death and what he, Gregory, did to the body afterwards. The report concluded that Greg did show abnormal emotional behavior, calling it primitive at times. He acted evasive and appeared to be in denial. He didn't see floridly psychotic when talking about everyday things. How was that? Well, I don't, like, if you were just talking to him about normal stuff, he seemed completely normal. Interesting. Doctors, they did see that psychotic when he started to talk about his father's death. His behavior was ultimately described as bizarre because he was verbal but withdrawn. He looked at the floor constantly. He bit his fingernails, and this is a trigger, picked his nose, and then ate it. Oh, gross. But he would remain flat. He would have a flat effect throughout the interviews. He would have this abrupt childlike speech at times, and he was considered overtly psychotic at the time of his evaluation. There was no evidence of an organic brain disorder. So what happened? Yeah. You know, what caused this? What started this? Was it a cognitive disability in his youth that was never addressed? Was it abuse? Was it just, I mean, I don't, you know. Yeah, it's hard to tell. I mean, what. Yeah. Yeah. Garvin Isaacs, his public defender, did visit him several times while he resided in the hospital there in Norman. Ultimately, doctors diagnosed him with schizophrenia paranoid type and determined that he was mentally incompetent to stand trial for his father's murder. Did the Girl Scout murders and this all happen in the same year? Close to it, yeah. Well, Girl Scout murders happened in 74, right? I don't remember. We're going to have to cut this whole part out because it could act like we know. It would be weird if it all did happen. 1977, June 13th. So he literally went from. Say that question again. What did I ask? So did the Girl Scout murders and this all happen, like, didn't it all happen the same year? Yeah, it did. It did. Oh, my goodness. It happened in June of 77 and this happened in May of 77. So this happened first. This happened first, yeah. Oh, wow. Well, what a year for Mr. Isaacs. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Good night. I hope he took a long vacation after that year. Right. Well, you have to think, like, you know, Isaacs, he really didn't really start the Girl Scout murder cases until 78, I guess, technically. Yeah. Oh, man. So with him being deemed mentally incompetent to stand trial, he was now required to spend the rest of his life in a psychiatric hospital. The murder charges were dismissed in 1980. However, this is some good police work. Okay. The case was not closed. If at any time Gregory showed encouraging or stable mental capacity, he would, in fact, be charged with murder and stand trial. Oh, interesting. A nice loophole. Yeah, for sure. They definitely did that on purpose. Gregory was moved to Eastern State Hospital in Veneta in the 70s, and he would stay there until 1995. So let's fast forward to 1995. Okay. The Department of Mental Health is going through some changes, and it starts to encourage patients to attempt to reenter society. Gregory was one of those patients. So Gregory moved from Veneta back to Norman, where he got a job sacking groceries. The Cleveland County DA caught wind of this and, to put it lightly, was very unhappy. If he could have a job, he could stand trial for murder. So Attorney Isaacs believed Gregory had only been out for maybe a week or two before it was discovered that he was out. Prosecutors suddenly started the process of refiling the charges. The DA approached Gregory, and I don't know if he said it in so many words or if it was alluded to, but essentially the message that was, I guess, received was that you might want to think about going back to that psychiatric hospital or you're going to prison for murder. Oh, wow. And Gregory soon decided that he was going to return to the psychiatric hospital in Norman, and the second attempt at filing charges for murder were dropped. In 2004, Gregory was relocated to Fort Supplies Hospital. He did stay in contact with his lawyer. Near the last, Gregory was hoping that he could possibly be released again, although knowing if he was going to be released again, you know there is no statute of limitations on murder. Right. You would face, and we're in Oklahoma, this is a death penalty state. Right. Not that I don't know if they give them the death penalty, but I don't know. This was quoted from Mr. Isaacs. He was saying that he wished that he could get out and that he wished that somebody would help him get out, the attorney said of their last phone call. And Isaacs simply said, look, I can't do that. And I really think that he was probably essentially telling him, you better stay in there. Yeah. There's no way I'm going to be able to. Although there was a lot of speculation, like while they were starting to re- when they started initially to refile the murder charges, a lot of people were like, well, where's all the evidence now? Because when he was initially put in, where's the knife at? Right. Where are the crime scene photos? Right. Where are all the reports at? Because you probably- they assumed, okay, he's going away forever. Yeah. And all that stuff was missing. And so- Where did he go? Another great question. And so in my mind, I was like, even if they would have succeeded in keeping him out and filing charges on him, would he have gotten away with it? Because there was simply no evidence. Oh, my goodness. All they really had to go by, because even the initial- his initial psychologist, that Dr. Schmidt, she had already passed away at that point. Oh, my goodness. So they didn't have a case, honestly. I mean, if you think about it, they may not have even had- they didn't have a case. Yeah. They would have only had these psychiatric reports from the 70s and no telling. I mean, because he- it is a psychiatric case, his files are sealed. Right. And, I mean, I guess a judge could unseal them, but it's all sealed. And so you can't see, like, what it was he like in the 80s. Well, and as erratic as his evaluations were and his interviews talking about it, like, there's no way that they could go on anything of what he said. Exactly. You can't. You can't. Oh, my goodness. And to think, you know, I wonder how much time Mr. Isaacs really spent with him. Did he even have any evidence that he could have possibly had? Right. You know? So all of this to say that Gregory Kanantis passed away in 2014 due to heart complications because he was an avid smoker. Oh. And that is the story of the Oklahoma cannibal. Man, that was a doozy. Wasn't it? Good night. Oh, my goodness. I did not know we had one of those. I mean, I didn't either. I hope I did it some justice. I know that his family members were in the dark a lot about a lot of what was happening, not necessarily because I think they were trying to cover it up. I think that it was just such a shocking thing that happened. And you don't want to believe that your loved one is. No, simply their family. Yeah. A family member could do that. Exactly. So. They're almost like just trying to distance themselves from it. Right. And I think there was probably a lot of it that they just didn't know. They didn't know. And I'm not sure if his mother is still alive or not. I know that she continued to reside in Hawaii. And I don't know if his brothers are still there or not. But, you know, probably in Hawaii was probably the best place for them to stay away from this. But I know that there's family members. I mean, Theodore had a whole family out there. Yeah. And my coworker, that was her uncle. And so she told me this kooky thing that one of her very first baby pictures was taken by Greg. So at some point she had seen him in that time period. And it's just hard to say because there was really no reports of him having any type of mental illness prior to 1977 when he had that first suicide attempt. Yeah. So maybe coming to Oklahoma wasn't the best choice for him. Yeah. But I don't know. Interesting. I see so many signs of manipulation and narcissism in him. For sure. For sure. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't also cognitive disorder or even something else, you know, going on. I mean, I think if someone is that manipulative and that narcissistic, I think that's a mental health issue all on its own. Oh, you're absolutely right. Yeah. And it's like obviously, obviously there was something going on. And who knows, maybe today they might have diagnosed that as something. Right. I don't know what. But I mean, you know, maybe they know more now than they did in 1977. But, man, I don't even know. To the point where I don't think that his family even noticed that there was anything. And so it begs the question, do people just snap? I mean, there's a show called Snap. Was this something that was just inside of him already and it was just boiling? Well, to think that he did that horrible act. Right. And had no remorse for it. Right. I mean, like that tells me there's something going on. Right. Or not going on. Because, I mean, when you look at his background, you know, he was the one who claimed that he had a good relationship with his stepdad. You know, he vehemently denies the type of relationship that his mom and him could have had that would have maybe caused something to be questionable. I mean, the worst thing it says that he did was smoke pot in high school. I mean, in today's world, that's nothing. Right. I don't know if that might get you suspended. I don't know if it would get you expelled now. But maybe if you did it on school ground. Maybe. Yeah. So I'm just like, wow, that was the worst thing he did? You know? I mean, obviously, in 77 he. Or there could be something that the family doesn't talk about. That's true. Because you don't want their dirty laundry out in the open. Yeah. Because. I mean, I'm not saying that's what happened. But the dirtiest laundry right there got put up, and they didn't want to further dirty it, I guess. I mean, I don't know. But the family member that I do know of his, I love her, and I think that she's a wonderful person. And I hope that I answered some questions for her and her sister. I do. I thought you did a good job. Thanks. I just don't even know what to say. Well, that was one of those, I guess. But, yeah. So if you have a request or questions or comments for Jess and I, please feel free to reach out to us at CuriousCousinsOKGmail.com. You can find us on all the socials at CuriousCousinsOK. And if you would like, if you are so inclined, would you please rate, follow, and review us on your favorite listening platform? We're on all the major listening platforms, including Spotify, Apple, and Google, and Amazon. So, yeah. Next week, let's do some history next week. We're going to do some history. Yeah. I'm ready. I know Jess is ready. I probably ruined her night for her. You know, I thought the first episode on Tom Starr was with his necklace of earlobes was gross. I win again. Man, I legit almost gagged on something. I bring it. I bring it. Yeah. Well. Jess, tell them what to keep it. Keep it kooky and spooky. Bye. Man, my stomach keeps making, like, scribbling noises.
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