How to be an effective Podcast Guest - #04 Hosts (with Ian F)

The host and guest discuss the skills needed to be an effective podcast guest. They mention that hosts should say as little as possible and guide the guest in the right direction. They also advise guests to be prepared, speak in plain English, and ask questions if they don't understand. It is emphasized that podcasts are editable, so mistakes can be corrected. Guests can also take breaks if they feel uncomfortable. The guest shares that he would like to be interviewed by an experienced interviewer like Parkinson and would have loved to interview Michael Jackson. Hey, is this thing on? Not all hosts are created equal and the skills you may encounter will range from the hobbyist through adequate interviewer to an experienced or seasoned professional. Joining me now is one of my heroes from when I used to listen to the radio, remember those days? And it's one of the pleasures of being in podcasting is getting to work with people like Ian F. Yay! I didn't know this was a comedy show. You didn't tell me about this. Ian, welcome. How's it, Gav? It's good to be here, man. The series is How to Be an Effective Guest on a Podcast and it's intended mostly for people who haven't been a guest or have done a couple of episodes and need some pointers and some guidance. One of the things that happens at this early stage of podcasting is that people go into the studio and they're faced with a host who either knows what they're doing or doesn't. And really, I just would like to tap into your years of experience and advice on what can a person expect and what should they do when they encounter good hosts, bad hosts, mediocre hosts to ensure that the guest shines and that the message that's intended to be delivered gets delivered. And ironically, being a good host means saying as little as possible because you're not there to be interviewed, are you? It's your guest who's there to be interviewed and I think the professional really starts to have to show their colors and their experience when the guest doesn't quite know what they're doing. That's when you want to tap your guest in the correct direction in terms of what the subject is that you're talking about without actually talking terribly much. So that means you might have to interject a little bit more often, etc., etc. Let's put the glove on the other hand here and let's talk about being a guest and I certainly prefer it that way because as a host, I would love my guest to come in filled with wonderful stories and regale us all with humorous anecdotes and interesting things and that would be an easy job. But really, if you're going to be interviewed and you are nervous, first of all, you have to realize that podcasts in the context of a podcast are editable. They're infinitely editable. So something that you've said that's wrong, you can go back, you can fix it. It's not live radio. It's not live television. So that's the first plus when it comes to being a guest. The second thing is how angry or how aggressive your host actually wants to be and this, of course, depends on the topic. I've watched interviews in media training where I've seen politicians being absolutely grilled when it comes to facts and figures. You are so brave as to give a figure and go, 620 people passed away on the roads in the month of September in KwaZulu-Natal and this was due to X, Y, and Z. The number 620 should be factually correct. You have to be very careful because if you have a host that's ready to bite your head off, they can go and fact check that and make your life very difficult. So you want to be careful that you've done your research, you know what you're talking about and that you feel comfortable talking about it. Also don't be scared to ever go back to a host and say, hey, pal, I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable answering that question. Out of my range of expertise, I can come back to you and give you more details as soon as I've looked that up. But in the context of this chat, I actually don't know. That's much better. It's much easier to do that. So you're going to get a range of hosts looking for a range of emotions and a range of different things. You're going to have to think on your toes. Oh, by the way, if you're doing a podcast, as a host, I'm always sitting down with my guest and I just spend a five-minute gap just going, okay, so who are you? What do you do? Where are you from? What's your background? Oh, nice. Okay, cool. Oh, your kids also go here, blah, blah, blah, blah. A bit of a chat. That way it just breaks the ice. It's so very rarely, and I wish it would happen, that the guest would turn around to the host and say, hey, this is what I'm going to talk about. Are you comfortable with this sort of layout of what we're talking about? Is there anything you don't know? Because as a host, I'd be like, wow, this person really understands their topic and it would probably make me endeavor to make a better interview with the person that I'm interviewing. Most of the podcasts we do currently are branded podcasts for corporates. I understand the context of the aggressive interview type and that may happen, but generally this is about extricating the message clearly. Sometimes the host is a member of staff who's chatting to somebody else in the organization. So we don't always have an experienced person leading the conversation. What we're trying to do is get the guest to perhaps recognize, okay, I'm dealing with a host who's maybe not the best host. I'm here to deliver a message. This is how I'm going to do it without embarrassing them or without ruining this whole thing, but still get my message across. What are the tips you would give to a guest to maybe effectively take control without seeming to take control? Take control of the conversation without taking control of the room, that picture in your head. I have a tip that I picked up from my good friend Astrid who once said to me, if you ever want to really get your message across in a simple way whilst engaging your audience, imagine that you're explaining what you do or whatever it is that you're trying to talk about to your 18-year-old niece or nephew. You want to not necessarily dumb it down, but you do want to explain it in plain, jargon-free English. I say that again for those listening in corporates, plain, jargon-free English. Because you might know what an ASCTP is, but I don't know what an ASCTP is, and it's not my job to do so. I'm not in your industry. So use plain English. Explain it to whoever is interviewing you as if they were your 18-year-old niece or nephew, and you're away, because really you're dumbing it down enough to be able to make it understandable, and most likely you're going to be telling a story to that niece or nephew, which inevitably would be your friend or somebody who you're comfortable enough to talk to. That's a great starting point, because then everyone's feeling as though they're comfortable, they understand, and then no one's afraid to ask dumb questions. Now, you know, Simon Sinek put it so beautifully when he said that he always likes to come across, sorry, I don't want to misquote him, as the most stupid in the room. He's never afraid to ask questions. Sorry, can you just hold on a second? What do you mean by that? Because I don't quite understand. Or sorry, the x-axis on that graph, I don't understand how it correlates to what you're talking about. You'd be surprised that your audience, the people you're talking to, or the people in the room, whatever it might be, will probably also be thinking that, but they don't want to make a fool of themselves, so they're not going to be asking the question. Be stupid, ask dumb questions, and you'll probably end up with a great answer. This is how it all works when things are running smoothly. At what point do you advise somebody to stand up, put their headphones on the table, and leave the studio? Run, yes. Get out of here quickly. In the context of what we're talking about, which is podcasts, there are no rules, because we can pause and we can go back. So if you need to take your headphones off, have a breather, have a sip of water, take your time, and just off-mic, off the record, go, I'm not quite comfortable because of x, y, and z. That's okay. It's actually okay. In fact, you'll probably get more across as a guest if you do take a breather, if you feel uncomfortable. I've seen people get themselves into horrible knots in interviews, myself included. I've felt under pressure under certain conditions, and because it's a podcast, you're not live. You're not on live media. Take a break. Put your headphones down. Speak off the record. Get it back on track and go from there. That would be my advice. Thank you. Those years of experience that you've shared with us surprised two questions at the end. Who do you most want to interview that you haven't yet, and who do you most want to be interviewed by who hasn't yet interviewed you? I would most like to be interviewed by Paki. Do you remember Paki, the famous British BBC interviewer, Parkinson? I read his autobiography, and it was just tremendous. What an incredible interviewer. Interestingly, back to what we were saying, if you listen to his interviews, you'll notice that he says very little. He just drops tiny questions in and moves on, lets the guest do the speaking. I would most like to interview, I think in my younger years, it would have been Michael Jackson. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to sit with that man, and I would have steered clear of all of the nonsense questions, all of the allegations that he went under before he passed. I would simply have spoken about the music. I think the man was an absolute genius, and that's my love, first and foremost, his music. Thank you so much for your time, Ian. I appreciate it. Thanks, Gav. Thanks for having me.