12 Years a Slave

The Subway Telemarketer is discussing the Oscar winners for Best Picture of the year, starting with 12 Years a Slave. One person hadn't heard of it, but the other had seen it before. They go on to discuss the other nominees, including American Hustle, Philomena, Nebraska, Her, Dallas Buyers Club, Captain Phillips, The Wolf of Wall Street, and Gravity. Gravity was a big hit and had a chance of winning. They mention other popular movies of the year, such as Iron Man 3 and Frozen. Brad Pitt produced 12 Years a Slave and had a small role in it. They mention that the movie is about Solomon Northrup, a free black man who was kidnapped and sold into slavery. Hi, welcome to Subway Telemarketer, and we are here counting down the Oscar winners for best pitcher of the year, from worst to best, and we are all the way up to the top 30, number 30. Yep. So what are we talking about today? We're talking about 12 Years a Slave. Yeah. In 2013. Okay, cool. What's your history with this movie? Um, I, I don't, I didn't know it. You hadn't heard of it? I hadn't, I don't know, maybe I had, I don't know. Oh, okay. I hadn't read the book until this week, and I didn't know, I mean, I figured it was about somebody who was a slave for 12 years, but I had a basic understanding of the time frame that it might be involved in. Okay. And the location, just because 12 Years a Slave, so. Yeah. So, yeah, I had not watched it nor read the book. Okay. Well, I've, of course, seen it, I think a couple times before this. So, let's, we should just jump into the losers, because there's eight of them. Wow. Yeah. So, first up we have American Hustle. Okay. Ever heard of it? I, I think I watched this movie. Oh, okay. I did watch this movie, not that long ago. Okay. Yeah, it's, I felt like it could have been, like, great. Right. Okay. And then, you know, but it was, it was okay. It was a little... Yeah, I'm not, I'm not that in trouble with it, either. So, kind of a little sarcastic, the heist, not a heist, but a con artist movie set in the 70s. I think they were going for cult classic, but... Yeah, I haven't heard a whole lot about it since 2013. Yeah. When it came out. But it's been written by David O. Russell, coming off the Silver Linings Playbook from the year before. And has, anyway, it's got our main cast, with Christian Bale and Amy Adams, Jennifer Lawrence, Bradley Cooper, and Jeremy Renner, who you saw in The Hurt Locker. Okay. Philomena? No, I've never heard of this one. Okay. This is based on a true story of an Irish lady. It tells a story of a lady's life, but she had, as a young woman, she became pregnant, I think as a teenager, sent to a convent, where she was forced to give up her baby. And so, she's played by Judi Dench, and Steve Coogan plays a writer who is kind of writing a book on the story, and they kind of develop a friendship, and she kind of revisits the pain of her past. Oh. Well, I don't know Steve Coogan, but Judi Dench is... She's always great. She's wonderful. Yeah. ...in Nebraska. No, also never heard of that. Yeah, it's directed by Andrew Payne. Okay. He's known for, like, Sideways, Election, The Descendants. It's kind of comedies for adults. This is a black-and-white serial comedy that stars Bruce Dern as kind of a cantankerous older man who... He gets one of those sweepstakes things that are meant to kind of fool elderly people, scams, and it says he already won, so he goes to Omaha to collect his prize, and he's very insistent that he has to go, and his son decides to accompany him, and they kind of bond on their road trip to Nebraska. I think from Montana. Okay. Yeah. So, we're still seeing? Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of a quirky human comedy. Her. Yeah. Never heard of it. Yeah. I don't know where I was in 2013. Yeah, I don't know. Another Amy Adams movie. Yeah, Amy Adams is in this as well. It stars Joaquin Phoenix as a guy who... It's set in the future, and it's about a guy who falls in love with his AI assistant. Okay. It's kind of futuristic. She's kind of like a Siri or Alexa figure, voice of Scarlett Johansson. Okay. But it's just kind of... It's like an Alexa, but runs your whole life. Okay, so it's really... You fall in love with the concept because there's nothing physical. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I actually read an article in... I don't know. It was maybe... Where was it? Washington? Something like that. The Atlantic? The Atlantic. Anyway, it was about when Chat GPT first came out. Yeah. And having a conversation, and the author of this was talking about how it was like becoming... This was... Became this conversation... Oh, yeah. I've heard about that. Yeah. So it's actually not dissimilar to this, but he felt like he was... He was talking to a computer, but he got emotionally invested in this. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of creepy. Yeah. Yeah. For 2013, I was a little bit ahead of its time. Right. Yeah. Dallas Fire Squad? Oh, I've heard of this movie. Yeah. Okay, yeah. They got a lot of attention, Nancy McConaughey stars... Oh, he looks very thin in this movie. Yeah, well, he has a... Oh, I have not... No, I know nothing about it. Yeah. Oh, so he must have lost weight for this role. Oh, yeah. He really transformed himself. He plays kind of this... I think he gets AIDS from a blood transfusion. Oh. Yeah, he's kind of a Texas embodiment of toxic masculinity, but... Oh, then he gets AIDS. Then he gets AIDS, and he runs up against the healthcare bureaucracy, and the fact that Washington and the FDA wasn't doing anything to get his drugs approved, and kind of runs a black market called the Dallas Fire Squad to get AIDS medication to AIDS patients that were being tied up by the FDA. Wow, this sounds fantastic. Is it good? Yeah, it's definitely worth seeing. I'd kind of rather see a documentary on the situation. I mean, it really just tells that story. Jared Leto has a supporting role as a trans woman there. Okay. Captain Phillips, you've seen that, right? No, I have not. Oh, okay. I don't like to watch any of the SEAL movies, but I would really like to watch Captain Phillips. The SEALs have very small... I know. I mean, they resolve the whole thing, but it's not about them. They're big players in that. At any rate, this is based on the true story of Captain Phillips, the captain of a cargo liner that is taken over by Somali pirates. The movie is about, Tom Hanks as Captain Phillips, kind of managing the situation. Yeah. I mean, it's always been one, I was like, oh, I'd like to see that. Yeah. We're seeing? Yeah, it's definitely worth seeing. Okay. Very exciting, yeah. Yeah. Wolf of Wall Street. Oh, I have heard of this. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen this. Yeah, this is the Martin Scorsese's epic of Wall Street greed and... That does not seem like very violent. It's a violent movie, but Martin Scorsese, they only do... No. Okay. Well, the Scorsese movie we'll see is a little more violent. You know, he did The Age of Innocence. Never heard of it. Silence. Silence, based on the novel? Yeah. Oh, okay. About the priests in Japan. Yeah. Anyway, so Wolf of Wall Street stars Leonardo DiCaprio as Jordan Belfort, the day trader who wrecks a fortune in gratuitous excess of Wall Street. Yeah. It's a good movie. Yeah. So, sort of like a documentary. Yeah, sort of like a documentary. And finally, we have Gravity. I have seen this movie. Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, this is probably the most famous movie of the list. Huge hit that stars Sandra Bullock as a... Well, she's not an astronaut, but she's on an astronaut mission. I think she's a scientist of some sort. Is Bullock an astronaut? She's an astronaut, yeah. But it's not like she's not a career NASA person. She's a scientist that's up there for a mission. For pictures. Yeah. Yeah. At any rate, things go wrong on this mission, and she has to find her way home from space. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. So, this was a huge hit. It's a really... One of those movies has the premise of, like, how's that going to be a story, a movie? Ugh. But it's really fascinating. Yeah. Super awesome. With the guys? That's funny. Oh. They do a lot of movies together. Yeah. What's that about? They did this one. I don't know. But you like Gravity. I did like Gravity. Yeah, it's great. I don't understand why people go into space. It seems like such a bad idea. Yeah. It's a really gripping movie. Set up a really tight Oscar race this year. More so than usual. Just because this type of movie is almost tailor-made for... I mean, Oscars don't usually go for science fiction, but just in terms of it being an organization that's a collection of different branches. I don't know if here's a movie that kind of showcases directing and acting and special effects and sound and, like, really all elements. Cinematography, editing. I mean, you don't think of it as a script movie, but just kind of the challenge of how to write this, you know, structure of this type of story. But then have it go up against something that's just more important, you know. Which is? We'll get into it. Oh, that's right. Yeah. It's one of those situations where I think it's come out in different years. So Gravity might have won? Yeah. I mean, I think it probably came close to winning this year, too. But, like, if one of them had come out the previous year, I think either of them would have beaten Argo, which was the previous year. Or the next year, I think either of them would have beaten Birdman. Oh, okay. Yeah. Gravity is the only science fiction nominee to be in the top 10, 15 highest grossing movies of the year. Wow. That's a lot of franchise movies. I think the first Iron Man movie was the biggest hit of the year. Okay. But also Iron Man 3, Frozen, Despicable Me 2. I think they're at the box office for animation. Los Angeles University, too. Yeah. Up there. Gravity, up at number six in some of the domestic charts. Yeah, a lot of franchise movies. Star Trek, Fast and Furious. Yeah. Hobbit. Yeah, Hobbit. A couple of them. Thor. A couple of Iron Man movies, yeah. Yeah, Thor. What's the other one? Oh, Iron Man. Iron Man 3, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes! Also, World War Z was a big hit. The zombie movie starring Brad Pitt, who was also in and produced 12 Years a Slave. Wow. He produced this? Yes. Okay. He was in it. He was, yeah. Yeah, he saved a good part for himself, that's for sure. Yeah, we'll talk about that. There are a few heroic white characters. One nice white character. So what is 12 Years a Slave about? It's a fascinating story about Solomon Northrup, who was a black man, born free in the North, lived in New York at the opening of the movie Saratoga. Right. Anyway, was lured to Washington by a couple of guys, probably, then sort of a date-rape drug, some sort of... Yeah. Anyway, they ended up probably, most likely, selling him into... Well, in the movie, they kind of say that he sold them into slavery. So he just goes from being a well-established, well-respected man with a family and children and... Musician. Musician, home, everything, just living his American life, and then he's sold into slavery and brought to the South. Yeah. Anyway, and then he lives that way for 12 years before they're able to secure his release. Yeah. Which is this long narrative, and then he... Yeah, so, and then this is based on a true story of, obviously... Solomon Northrup. Solomon Northrup, who wrote this story like two years later, or shortly after he... So this would be like 1850, early 50s or so. Yeah. So he wrote this narrative of what happened, which is really remarkable. Anyway, so a remarkable story, that's what it's about. Yeah. And you made me read the book, which is so... Yeah. I'm so glad you did. Right. No, I really am glad that you did. I didn't watch the movie until last night because I did... And because it's from 1853, it's free everywhere. I listened to a great, just included with Audible book, and just kind of listened to it during running around this week. And it's gripping. Oh, very much so. Oh my gosh, I love the book. And it also... The other thing that really struck me by reading the book, or listening to the book this week, and watching the movie in the same week, is... I started thinking while I was reading this, is how are they going to do this story as a movie? And first of all, this is going to be brutal to watch as a movie. Yes, it is. But it really brought to mind what a different storytelling, I don't know, platform or whatever. I mean, movie is just a different way of telling a story. It's not just a visual representation of what's in the book. Right. So I still don't totally understand the movie-making business, but I'm starting to appreciate that it's its own... Different structure. It's its own art form of how to tell the story. Yes. And, yeah. That's something that is, you know, in our post-Enlightenment society of, you know, we're just so used to. You know, because I teach scripture, and I try to get this point across to people all the time. With scripture, it's like you can't just read it like it's a science book or a history book, even. Try to, you know, count what you're doing. It's a different genre entirely, and it's telling the same story in a similar way. But anyway, so I know that for scripture, but it's like, oh, movies like that, too. Okay. So what did you think of the movie? Oh, I really liked the movie. Yeah. Yeah. I loved the book. Oh, the book was... I preferred the book to the movie only because, I don't know, I can't fathom how the movie would do it better. But there's so much tension and intrigue and the drama in the movie. And also, I mean, in the book. You also get such an insight into the character, you know, the voice of Solomon Northrup, which is just, like, you should go... Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. I think the movie is less concerned with building character or even narrative and just kind of using the story to give cinematic treatment to the absolute horrors of slavery. Yeah. Which I think it does very well. I do, too. So if I had never read the book, I'd be like this. And I still, like, this was a gripping movie. I really, really liked it. Yeah. And I would just encourage people, you know, go see the movie, but also read the book. You know, don't do the movie in place of the book, but they're good kind of side-by-sides. Yeah. So I have really nothing but praise. And I thought it would be harder to watch than it was. As a matter of fact, last night when we... I'm talking a lot about this, but last night when we sat down to watch it, finally at, like, 9 or something, 9.30 even, at night, so just go watch it. And Adam just had a week, man. He just had a week. He was exhausted. He was just like, oh, this is such heavy matter. He was more in, like, a let's watch 45 minutes of a comedy special, you know, like a stand-up or something. But anyway, he sat down. He helped me set it up, and he was just going to watch his own thing sitting next to me. But he just got caught up within the first two minutes. And for the first thing, he wasn't going to watch it. He watched the whole thing, and only fell asleep a few times. Okay. Which is later. Yeah, especially being that late. Especially being so, like, I'm not going to watch this movie tonight. Yeah, I mean, it really doesn't beat around the bush in that sense. It just gets right into it. Yeah, it does. Some of the things, when the two characters, they're almost like vaudeville or pre-vaudeville. They're the circus guys. Yeah, Brown and Hamilton. Yeah. I felt like the movie, so those are the guys that he was introduced to in Saratoga who had said, hey, you know, you're a musician. Come play with us. We'll do all these gigs. You'll make this money. We're going down to, at first, it was going to be somewhere in New York, and then later it was Washington. And then you'll come back up. But, like, he could make all this money and then come back. Yeah. So that's why he... And the time it worked out, his wife had gone up to some other city to do cooking. Yeah, cooking. Yeah, cooking lessons or something. So, yeah, so it just worked out. So he went to go do that, and then they... But what I thought that the movie did is, like, that was like, oh, that's exactly how I had pictured them in my mind. Yeah. In reading the book. I thought that was, like, exactly. Yeah. One of them we've already seen in Argo. Oh, really? Rao. Yeah. One of the circus guys was one of the Canadians. Oh. Well, no, one of the Americans, not hostages, but one of the guys that they're trying to get out of the country. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, I don't know. I could say so many. It should be mandatory. It should. And, you know, you kind of come into the movie thinking, well, everybody, you know, slavery is not controversial anymore. Nobody defends it. So it's like you're telling us something bad that everyone already thinks is bad. But it's so enlightening. Even with the fact that everyone knows slavery is bad, you still hear kind of... Yeah. Especially the Benedict Cumberbatch character. That's a great... Yeah. Who's like... Yeah. Exactly. He really comes off as just so useless. Yeah. He's such a feckless figure. And he's the type of guy that is just, he's the nice slave owner. He's the one who cares. He's as good as it gets. As good as it gets. Yeah. As good as it gets. And Solomon Northrup speaks so highly of him. He does. So highly of him. Right. Yeah. But really, that's the type of person that allows the institution to exist. Because that Martin Luther King letter from Birmingham Jail is essentially what he says. Yeah. Because it's those types of individuals that make it easy to just make the case that, okay, the horse of slavery is just some bad apples. Right. And we do see some of those. Right. But, yeah, I just think, first of all, I think Cumberbatch does a really good job. He doesn't try to make his character likable. He also doesn't play it as a villain either. Yeah. He's just kind of useless. First of all, when we first meet him, it's at the slave auction. And what happens to Eliza is just heart-wrenching. Yeah. One of the other slaves who's transported with Solomon. She had a master who also fathered her children. And as she told it, he was good to her, as she told the story. Yeah. And then I think her... She lived a very... She had fine things. Yeah. As she told it, she was... Yeah. And then the master's daughter just gets jealous and sells her and her kids. And it's like you really learn how it doesn't really matter that there are good, so-called good slave owners, because you have a system where people are property? Yeah. That's inherently dehumanizing. It's inherently dehumanizing. But we get this scene where she gets sold, but not her kids. Yeah. And she's probably never going to see them again or know where they are or what's going to happen to them. And she's screaming. And Cumberbatch is the one who's buying her. And you can tell he sees himself as a nice guy. And he's like, okay, how much to buy the daughter? And he can't. So he's like, oh, well, I tried. Yeah. And it's so useless. Right. And you have that similar thing at the end where... Well, at the end of his time with them, when you have Solomon, who was by then called Platt, he had beat up the overseer and, anyway, had to be removed from this. And Ford, who was the Benedict Cumberbatch character, is trying to save him, right? But he sells him to a harsh other master. And he's like, look, you're going to die. This is my only option. It's not a great option, but he's the only one that'll take you. But I need to... I'm a good guy. I need to save your life and get you out of here. And we're like, well, you could also just free him. Yeah. There is another option. Well, and then at that point, Solomon tries to tell him the truth. And I don't want to hear it. Yeah. And he tries to defend him to Eliza. Yeah. When she's still just wailing about her children, even as a non-parent. Yeah. Tears my heart out. But he's like, she goes, he's one of the good ones. She goes, he's a flavor. Yeah. Under the circumstances. And she says, under the circumstances, he's a flavor. Yeah. I just love the dialogue there. It's really very pointed. Yeah. And I can't remember how their conversation continues along that. She just makes this really profound point. It's like, I mean, I had that good, in quotation marks, master too. And it doesn't help me now. Yeah. I still got sold into this. And Solomon Northrup, in the book, describes such fondness about Ford. Right? Yes. But he talks about, he still, he sees him, though, as a flawed character. Very much, yeah. Yeah. But he's like, he doesn't, making me think of, you know, Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Yeah. He was so lived in this world that he, you know, he couldn't conceive of anything outside of this. And anyway, it was. Yeah. The system is evil. The system is completely evil. And he's wrong for, he's weak for not seeing through it, not even willing to see through it. Yeah. But, yeah. And of course, Solomon Northrup is also, you know, just dealing with people that are just demonic, and how they deal with, I mean, just really. Yeah. I mean, the cruelty in that case that he gets is not from the owner, or even the overseer, but the guy, Tibbets, played by Paul Dano, who's really kind of one step up from being a laborer himself. Yeah. He's probably like the lowest level management position. And he's just nasty. Yeah. That actor did a really good job. Yeah. Yeah. Paul Dano. Yeah. Playing just this kind of scummy, fairly illiterate. And that's what. He's in the Abelman. Oh, is he? The father. Oh. Yeah. Well, I thought this was so good, because then you had him above Solomon Northrup, who's such a dignified, you know. Yes. Learned guy. Yeah. And it's, you know. Well, that even becomes a complex difference in their vocabularies. Right. It's evident from the beginning. Yeah. Where, you know, he's talking about the techniques for transporting goods over a creek and, you know. It's over this guy's head. Yeah. But, I mean, he's really cruel and tries to lynch him. Yeah. When they get into. When things come to a head. Wow. I actually thought the movie made that. That scene. Yeah. Was. The movie did. It was more powerful than in the book. More powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh. So, they have him. He's just about to be. Hanged. Hanged. And so, he's like, just enough so that his tippy toes can be there. And the movie just didn't rush that scene. No. So, he gets saved. But all these people, like, they're afraid to go near him. Right. Because they'll just be brutalized if they do. Somebody brings them water. And, anyway. And he just does. But they're so good about just showing him, like, tiptoe, tiptoe. Yeah. Trying to keep himself from being asphyxiated. Yeah. And you can, like, hear his toes trying to get traction on the ground. Yeah. And it's. Because you could frame that sequence as, you know, the overseer kind of saves his wife because of the property. Yeah. And he's protecting the property. Yeah. And then just kind of leaves him until he gets the owner. Right. And so, you could tell the story, like, okay, well, Ford is there in five minutes and gets him to leave. Yeah. But if you actually sit there and watch those five minutes. Oh, my gosh. With you. Yeah. It's, like. It's horrible. Yeah. Yeah. And they. Ugh. And Ford finally comes and. Yeah. And you even see, like, the wife watching from the balcony. Oh, that was a powerful. That whole cinematic, whatever they did. Oh, yeah. It was like, I was caught up in that. And they were able to depict it better than I was able to imagine it in the book. And I thought, well, that is kind of a magic of movie making. And that actor. What's his name? Was it Cumberbatch? Or. Solomon. Sotolwalo Zafor? Yeah. How he was. Just the. You know. On his. Focus. I was, first of all, wondering how the heck do you do this? And. Just, like, that's excruciating. Like, how do you. How do you not collapse? Not even as an actor, but imagining the slave or person being enslaved. Yeah. Like, how heroic is what he's doing right now? And just, like, saying, you know, that sheer force of will. Physicality and will to be able to not just succumb to. Yeah. Just let your legs go. Like the. Oh, it's so powerful. What they did. It was wonderful. Great job with that. Yeah, it is that. That whole concept of just the people as property. And treating people. You know, I mean, nowadays. People don't even treat their dogs like property. Right. No. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you with your cat. Oh, I love my cat. Yeah, but. You know. Yeah, it's really. Almost like. What do you call it? Concerned foaling. With the foal. Like. With the wife. She. When she hears. When they first come to Ford's plantation. And she hears about Eliza. Like she lost her kids. She's like. Oh, poor thing. She's such a compassionate woman. Yeah. Her first word was. You'll forget them soon. I know. That's brutal. There was more than one time. She's got it. I didn't even know that they had kids, actually. I mean. 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