Money Matters Podcast - The Savings Bank

Representative Ryan Hamilton is discussing House Bill 4199, which would make financial literacy classes mandatory for high school students in Massachusetts. The bill aims to provide students with the necessary tools and knowledge to make informed financial decisions. Hamilton emphasizes the importance of understanding topics like student loans, credit cards, and financial institutions, as well as the long-term impact of these decisions. The bill also aims to start conversations about money within families and promote financial literacy beyond the classroom. The goal is to empower students to make better financial choices and contribute to economic growth. Welcome to TSB Money Matters, brought to you by the Savings Bank, where we dive deep into the dynamic world of banking, finance and everything in between. I am your host, Allie Houghton, and we will tackle topics including landscape of financial institutions, economic trends and the ever-evolving technology shaping the future of banking. Today we are joined by Representative Ryan Hamilton to discuss the House Bill 4199, an Act Relative to Personal Finance. The bill sponsored by Rep. Hamilton would make financial literacy class mandatory for high school students graduating the Commonwealth. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. It's a great topic, great to talk about, and something we have some good news on, so I'm happy to share that today. It's very timely and important and, you know, it's a great topic for kids to understand. And, you know, like I said, it has been a topic for a few years now. A few years ago, the governor did sign in where it was going to be part of the curriculum, but not as mandatory as we're talking about now. When did you know that this was really something that needed to be pushed even more? You know, I knew really about it when I was a kid, you know, growing up and attending, you know, Massachusetts public schools from K through college, you know, I really never had experience. It was never really – there were a couple of classes where I went to high school, but it wasn't enough in my opinion, and there weren't enough kids taking it to really make an impact and really give them the tools to succeed later in life. I mean, right, you know, at this current moment, you know, we're asking kids to make really important financial decisions, whether that's student loans, renting apartments, cars, credit cards, you know, at very young ages, and we're not giving them the tools to succeed right now. So that's really, you know, it started very early, and then once, you know, I became a rep, it really evolved into, okay, now I'm in a position to actually change this and, you know, give the kids of today something that I didn't have and something that they need. So that's one very important thing that you saw after you graduated high school that you kind of looked back on and was like, wow, I really needed to know more about that. Yeah, I mean, just – one, just how expensive life is, and that's just a – that's a general topic nowadays. But really, you know, student loans and credit cards, I think, were the big thing. You know, unfortunately, I know some friends that, you know, made decisions to go to certain colleges not understanding the financial impact that would have on them once they got out of college in terms of, you know, not being able to take an unpaid internship that might be really good for their future because you've got to pay your student loans, whereas I know some friends who went, you know, the local community college route and then to a state school who now have that financial flexibility where they don't have to go out and make $80,000, $90,000 to afford their lifestyle. They can go out and make, you know, $30,000 or $40,000 for a year or two and set them on a path that's going to, you know, take them to a really high-paying, successful job in the next three to four years. So, you know, just the financial flexibility that comes with your understanding of financial, you know, the financial institution in general is huge and something that, you know, growing up in Methuen and Haverhill, you know, being very blue-collar, you know, middle class, you know, there is, you know, there's not a lot of money running around up there in terms of, you know, if you make a really bad financial decision for yourself, it could affect you for 10, 20, 30 years. And I've seen that happen and I really want to be part of the solution to prevent that and at least give people the tools to understand the impact of decisions they're making. Yeah. And a lot of these students probably don't even understand the length of time these loans are going to be for or really even the understanding of depending on what career they're getting into, there may be other schooling down the road that they're going to have to pay for. So they kind of jump into it not with any education before they sign those loans. Exactly. No, you're 100% right. It's funny. My mom always says, my mom's a teacher up in the Merrimack Valley and she always says, she said to my sister who wanted to, knew from a very early age, she wanted to become a teacher. She's like, just to let you know, you don't need to go to Harvard to become a teacher. She's like, because your teacher's a great job. She loves it. It's one of the most rewarding and important careers we have. And unfortunately, teachers aren't making $250,000 even though they probably should considering they have the future of the United States and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in their hands. But therefore, don't go to a school where you're going to have $150,000, $200,000 in student loans because not only is your salary going to be very tough to get rid of those, but also you have to go get your master's anyway. So it was really helpful for my sister to have that knowledge. But unfortunately, I know some people who don't and have taken career paths that are super rewarding and that are very important, but unfortunately, they're in so much debt where they feel as though they have to leave the career that they love in order to pay the bills. Right. Yeah. And unfortunately, that's, I think a lot of people that don't understand what they're getting into at that point of life. But a lot of kids may be thinking, how is a bill like this, if it goes through, how is it going to change my high school career? And if this does pass, what will change for kids in school? Yeah. So like you said, off the top of the bat, I mean, you are going to have to take a half of a year financial literacy course to start. And where I think that really changes things is, so it's not only about the curriculum, which is going to be great. It's going to teach everything from bouncing a checkbook, which I don't know if people even have checkbooks anymore. I still do. But a lot of my friends, a lot of my friends say they don't, you know, credit card debt with that, with that about student loans, emerging technology, investing, all this great stuff that we should know. But also the big thing is it really is going to start the conversation. Yeah, it's going to start the conversation amongst themselves. It's going to start the conversation with, you know, their elders, grandparents, parents, you know, aunts, uncles of just talking about money. You know, unfortunately, money sometimes is a is a taboo subject in families. And really, our goal here is, again, not only to give them the knowledge, hopefully that they can make decisions ourselves, but to really just be comfortable and open about talking about it, because I'm a firm believer when we talk about things, better solutions arise from those conversations. So that's those I would say those are really the two main things. You know, because, as I like to say, it's more of the long term than just the short because a half year course isn't going to teach you everything, right? It's not. I mean, let's be honest. It's not. And, and, and we have to be, you know, we have to be understanding of that, but hopefully it plants the seed, hopefully it gives them the, you know, as I like to call it, the light bulb effect of like, man, this was really helpful, but I want to learn more. Yeah. And also, you know, our course will provide them with resources of where to, you know, investigate more as they get older, because I'm a firm believer, the learning process doesn't stop when you get out of school. So right. You know, there's a lot of great things that are going to come for this once we once we get it once we get past. Yeah. And you brought up the the comment of starting a conversation, which I think is a great thing to say, because if you look at a lot of families and parents, they don't have financial backgrounds. They don't. That wasn't how they brought up. That wasn't how they went into for their career. And maybe they don't have the understanding of this to teach their kids. So if their kids are now learning this and passing that information up to the parents, how is that going to just spread like an unbelievable wealth of knowledge? Yeah, 100 percent. And it's one of those things, too. Once that starts to spread, once we have adults asking more questions, that's when we partner with with with people like you, with banks, with our financial institutions to to host meetings and in public forums and have these conversations, because, you know, unfortunately, you know, there will be a cutoff once we get this institution and certain people who have already graduated high school will not be able to take this course. But again, that doesn't mean we still can't provide them with resources that help them as well. So it's really going to be a great domino effect, I think, to make us all just more knowledgeable when it comes to, you know, financial institutions. Yeah. And I and research has shown, like, you know, people that are more knowledgeable in the financial literacy aspect, it leads to so much more than just knowing how to control your own finances. It leads to so much more economic growth, wouldn't you say? Absolutely. Absolutely. More people may be more comfortable with investing because, you know, I've I know some people who I who have contacted me about this bill saying, you know, I wish I had this because, you know, I trusted this company to invest my money and they lost it all and they probably weren't a good actor. And I just didn't have the financial, you know, I didn't have the financial knowledge to understand that they were selling me, you know, something that probably I shouldn't have been investing in and stuff like that. And they're like, I really wish, you know, that would have saved me, you know, a couple thousand dollars in that investment. How did they not do that? So it's been, you know, it's been really a great experience and process just hearing the life lessons from people who are like who, again, this would not impact them directly because they've been long gone out of school. But they're like, man, I wish I had that. Yeah. So so as you have been out there talking about the bill, I'm sure you've been talking to a lot of current high school students and maybe some that are just recently graduated. What is their point of view? Like, do they really feel like this is something that needs to be pushed forward more? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we had a we had a hearing on this bill and and as you were there and you saw, I mean, we had what, probably 30 or 40 high school students that were passionately testifying about the need for this. And again, these are students who are, in my opinion, some of the most selfless students you'd ever see, because, again, this probably is not going to impact them, but they want to have they want to have this conversation. They want to get this done so that those who come after them can really experience this program and have it benefit them. So, you know, it's been great working with them. You know, we've really unlocked a network of people who really love financial literacy and the students are one of them. We had our students push resolutions at the school committee level in Lowell and Chelsea. And those school committees both passed resolutions supporting this bill and talking about how necessary it is. And that was all student run. That was all student pressure. And, you know, they're like we were talking about earlier. I mean, this this generation of students is so politically active and so, you know, will deaf is not afraid to get in front of, you know, people in power and tell them, you know, how they want things to go and in a very respectful way, but and also be part of that political process. So it's it's honestly, it makes you feel better for the future of our country, having seen, you know, young people so involved. Absolutely. The passion that they had for this bill and just their understanding of how much better kids would be going on into life knowing this was amazing, was amazing. And they can stand there and say, you know, I didn't get this, but this is so important for the future. And this is why they need to know it. It was it was great to have those kids stand up there and say that and really, you know, really advocate for all the others. Yep. And a lot of the stories did, you know, have some, you know, some talk about how it wasn't something their parents knew. So it wasn't passed on to them. And now they feel like they need to start this cycle, this conversation, like you said, That's that's really impressive to see at that age of students. You know, with financial literacy classes now in business classes, there there are some, but you know, it isn't really an option for all kids to take them, their own elective. Kids do take them. But do you think like, you know, if we're offering them earlier, where so I assume if it if they have to take them for one semester, it's anywhere in the four years of high school. So our bill is specifically would be your junior or senior year. Okay. Yeah. Okay. What so I was going to say if they were access to them earlier in their high school career, do you think that would open up the door for maybe more classes to lead on to different levels of this and get more experience? Yeah. So this is something we're actually working with the superintendent of my city, Missoula. We met with her and introduced her to someone who has a lot of financial literacy curriculum and stuff like that from high school all the way down to, I think, second, third grade. So she's actually going to start a program not only in the high school, but but younger and kind of be our as I like our kind of pilot program in terms of, you know, the follow up steps. Because I'm with you. You know, I a one one course for, you know, four or five months during the school years is not going to be is not going to suffice. Right. But it's a start. Yes. And so we're really looking forward to the, you know, the data that's going to come out of that and how it was instituted and how in the results we get from it from our superintendent to really move forward and possibly a future bill and introducing more financial literacy at a younger age, because, you know, we don't want to overwhelm students either in giving them that those building blocks from, you know, fifth, sixth grade onwards into high school, I think would be great. Obviously, the difficult and, you know, something that she's balancing is in, you know, she's starting this program next year. But it's, you know, there's only so many hours in the day, there's only, you know, you can only hire so many teachers with the budget you have. So it will be really interesting and something maybe I'll have to come back sometime next year and talk about how that's been instituted and kind of the results we're seeing from it because I couldn't agree with you more. The goal with this bill was to really give us a benchmark while also giving the school some flexibility on when to institute the program. Do you think there would be any pushback from districts or DESE or unions when it comes to, you know, does this bill mean it's going to be bigger costs for districts? Are they going to have to hire more? Are teachers going to have to take more on? Do you think there'll be any pushback there? You know, there always is. Good thing in Methuen is we actually hooked them up with someone who offers free curriculum, which is huge, because obviously, there is a cost to everything, you know, when there is a cost, that makes it difficult. We talked with a lot of our teacher unions, and they've been very supportive because, you know, the goal was, you know, we want everyone around this table making, you know, these decisions on how best to, you know, roll this out. Yeah. You know, like I said, my mom's a teacher. My sister's a teacher. My aunt's actually a financial literacy teacher. So we wanted to make, you know, we didn't want to, we don't want inconvenience. We don't want to further burden our teachers. You know, they have a lot on their plate as is. But they and the teachers union have really understood the importance of financial literacy and how, you know, we're really falling behind the rest of the country in terms of what we do here in Massachusetts. And I think they understand the, you know, how we really need to move quickly, I guess, in this. And they've been supportive, which is good, because, you know, there's always roadblocks. There's always people who, you know, want different things in a bill. So we've tried to make it as all-encompassing as we could, while also making sure it's as effective as it should be. Yeah. You said different people helping with different free programming and everything. Financial institutions have kind of had that framework in place for a number of years to provide that educational framework. How much support have you found that you've received from the local financial institutions of pushing this forward? Yeah, it's been, I mean, it's been fantastic. I mean, we, so we, our bill was immediately sponsored and supported by the Mass Bankers Association, which was fantastic. You know, I was up in Methuen last Friday, we had our Credit for Life Fair. And we've talked about not only do we have the fair, but I got the opportunity to talk about the kids with the bank manager of our local community bank up there. So it's been, it's been great. Financial institutions have been fantastic. I've been offered nothing but support from everyone. And again, not only support in terms of their voices, but also resources as well, which is huge, because if we want to institute this properly, we're going to need our local banks and every community, you know, to pitch in maybe financially, or maybe just from a support perspective, and really make this, you know, make this work in every community, because every community is different. Every community has different resources financially from a budgetary perspective. So we have to, we have to do what we can. Yeah. So we had mentioned earlier that this bill was presented to the Joint Committee on Education in early January. Where do we go from here? Yeah. So right now, I am happy to report that the bill got ruled out favorably once, but it needs to be redrafted first. So from there, we have to keep pushing and hopefully get it on a floor vote in both the House and the Senate. And if then if we can get it for a floor vote, both those get it passed there, then we get the governor to sign it. So that's so that's really the big part right now is waiting for the the language to come out. Yeah. See, see the changes that were made. And then start pushing our our committee chairs and some of our leadership in both the House and the Senate to get it out, which is which is always good, you know, because this thing I want to say about 15,000 bills were filed this this session. Wow. Absolutely crazy. Wow. Not the record that the speaker told us it wasn't the record, but that it was it was pretty dang close. So, you know, it just shows you how many important and how many really good bills there are. So when I say, you know, when I say push, I mean, you know, email, you know, talk to lobby, you know, the whole all of it, you know, in a very respectful way, because, you know, as I say, this is a pretty new bill. So you know, there'll be a there'll be a lot of bills that are probably in front of it. But I'm a firm believer that we can get this done and hopefully get this done sooner rather than later. That is amazing. So if this did go through, Massachusetts would be the 26th state with a bill like this? I believe so. It might even be 27 now. It keeps because when we first filed this bill, I think it was we'd be the 25th state. Yeah. So we unfortunately we keep falling further and further behind. But which is what is the other good part is that a lot of states are adopting this. So you know, the other states are adopting this, as you had said, and they're seeing this how important this is at a state level. At what point do you think this needs to be taken up federally? Yeah, I mean, it, you know, it would be great. Unfortunately, as we know, Washington is is Washington and things take their I mean, things take a very long time in Washington and trying to get everyone on the same page is also is always very difficult. But, you know, it would be nice. It would be nice for every, you know, state in the nation to have financial literacy and that all of our you know, everyone here, everyone in the United States, you know, learns more about their financial institutions and how to make better financial decisions. But right now, I think, you know, we really got to focus on Massachusetts. And then I think once we get through Massachusetts, you know, I used to work for Congresswoman Johann up in Lowell, I'm happy to happy to give put a little birdie in her ear to start pushing this at the federal level. But we got to take, you know, we got to take care of mass first. Yeah. And it looks like we're going that route. Yeah, definitely. We're going definitely a good way. Yeah. If people want to learn more about the bill and what it means and what would be included in it, where can they find that? Yep. So you can find that at the Statehouse website. So specifically, you could type in the docket number of the bill, and then we'll give you everything. Also, a good way is just to reach out to my office. You know, my email is ryan.hamilton at mahouse.gov. Happy to talk to people about the bill, answer any specific questions they have, but and also happy to send a hard copy through email of the bill as well. I would say those are the two best places to look. And if people want to show their support and get out there and really advocate for this and help push it forward, what's the best way for them to do that? So there's two really good ways. So one way is you could testify, which already happened. So unfortunately, you can't do that. But the other way is email your local reps and senators and ask them, of course, politely to co-sponsor the bill. When you have a bill that's co-sponsored by 80 reps and 24 senators, I mean, that just really shows everyone that we have a great coalition and that this bill has a lot of support. The amount of bills that I've co-sponsored just from getting residents' input on it and just a quick email saying, you know, hi, Rep Hamilton. I think this is a great bill to co-sponsor. It's house number 1121 on whatever topic. That's great because the way I've always been, and I kind of focus on some subject areas and usually co-sponsor those bills. But there's a lot of bills that I'm not co-sponsored on that are great bills. So when I get that email from the constituent hearing about how that bill is important to their life and them, then I'll definitely look into it more and usually co-sponsor it. Because like I said, there's 15,000 bills and you can't co-sponsor all 15,000. Your support doesn't mean as much when you're co-sponsoring every single bill. But again, all the reps that I work with, they really care about what their constituents email them about and care about. So that's the best way to do it, in my opinion, is to testify publicly or email your rep and senator and tell them, you know, this is important to me. I think I would appreciate you signing on to it. Yeah. Well, your passion for this bill is very clear. And I think it's such a huge step forward for the education in our commonwealth and for kids and just going on into life and what they'll learn. And it's great for you to have brought this forward and really pushed for it because I think it's very important and maybe not something that people would necessarily think of right away. Yep. Absolutely. So to start this conversation, I think is just amazing and awesome. Anything else you'd like to say to kind of encourage people to learn more about this or just even get out there and find some different financial literacy opportunities? Yeah. I mean, I would say the best way to find more opportunities is really, you know, contact your local bank. You know, you all have so many resources that you can point them in the right direction to, you know, to help them. And another thing is, again, keep having this conversation because a lot of people, when they hear financial literacy, they already think, oh, we don't have that or that's not in home economics anymore. So, you know, just educating people and telling them about this bill and telling them about the movement we're creating and hopefully they can get involved. And, you know, we're really building a grassroots movement here that is going to propel this bill over the finish line. And it's been a lot of fun so far and we're going to keep the pressure on. So, you know, anyone who wants to get involved, again, please email me, reach out to your local banks and they can get in touch with me or find you my contact information, whatever is best because we want you part of the team. We want you pushing with us. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. And I really hope that, you know, maybe maybe a few years or so we can come back here and talk about how much it was a success. That's it. We can sip a glass of champagne and, you know, celebrate. And how great it's going for high schools and students and get their point of view on how lucky they are that we got this in Massachusetts. Absolutely. But thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. No, thank you for having me. And again, thank you for all the help that you've been in pushing this forward. And, you know, it's been it's been a great process and it's been great to work with you. And hopefully, you know, we'll keep doing it and get it over the finish line. Absolutely. So I want to thank everybody for listening today. And you have you have listened to the TSP Money Matters brought to you by the Savings Bank. And we will be back soon with another episode.