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In this episode of Point. Blank. Period. Jada and her Mom discuss the aspects of why Black History Month was not giving this year. This conversation leads to the bigger question of whether or not black people are taking up space and is DEI improving the way diversity is valued and acknowledged.
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In this episode of Point. Blank. Period. Jada and her Mom discuss the aspects of why Black History Month was not giving this year. This conversation leads to the bigger question of whether or not black people are taking up space and is DEI improving the way diversity is valued and acknowledged.
Listen to This Black History Month wasn't giving by Point.Blank.Period MP3 song. This Black History Month wasn't giving song from Point.Blank.Period is available on Audio.com. The duration of song is 34:32. This high-quality MP3 track has 194.029 kbps bitrate and was uploaded on 5 Mar 2023. Stream and download This Black History Month wasn't giving by Point.Blank.Period for free on Audio.com – your ultimate destination for MP3 music.
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Black History Month was quiet this year, with little interest in black history. The focus on DEI and anti-racism seems to be performative. Black history should be celebrated all the time, not just in February. Responsibility for educating about DEI should not solely fall on black people. DEI leaders need space and support to make real change. Many organizations are afraid to confront systemic issues and invest in change. Uncomfortable conversations are necessary for progress. It's important to create space for marginalized voices, but they shouldn't have to wait for it. Okay, welcome to Point Blank Period. I'm your host, Jada, and joining me is my co-host, Mom. And today, I just want to start off by recapping Black History Month. In my opinion, I think Black History this month was a little bit quiet. It really was. I was looking on LinkedIn, and I know initially at the kick of off of the month, there was some postings from some of my colleagues and different organizations. And then after that initial first week, I didn't really see anything. Exactly. And I feel like the disinterest in black history this year had a lot to do. I think it just proves that all the fervor for DEI and all the fervor for anti-racism was really just a play on white racial consciousness and white guilt. Oh, that's really deep, Jada. Let's unpack that. Tell me more about that. So the key is back in 2020, after George Floyd's murder, there was kind of this awakening for white people when they realized that, oh, racism actually exists in America. And I feel like this brought around a stronger interest in hearing black stories and black history. And also the infamous black boxes on Instagram, because people are doing that to show solidarity with the black community and things like that. And we also saw that black history is oppositional to whiteness. And to me, I feel like black history shouldn't be acknowledged or celebrated when there's a political flashpoint. It should be celebrated all the time, not just like 28 days out of the year. I mean, what is your opinion on that? I 100% agree with that. And I think you mentioning that it's 28 days, we literally have the shortest month to celebrate African-American history. But I think it's important for people to acknowledge and organizations that the work needs to be continuous, that the commitment needs to be continuous. And because it's not something that we had historically done or done well, it's a new thing for us. And that's okay. I'm not opposed to organizations that say, we don't really quite know what we're doing, but we want to go on this journey. We're committed to driving change here. For me, that's the bigger thing is that we are on a journey, we recognize that there isn't a really quick destination to get to, but that over time, we all are working hard together to make a difference. And that it's unacceptable to not be focused on this at all times. As much as we focus on the bottom line, as much as we focus on engagement, as much as we focus on our hiring strategies, there is an opportunity. In fact, there's a fundamental need for DEI to be part of all of that. I agree. And that's what I want us to discuss today is, are we taking up enough space as Black people, especially as Black women, especially since I know that you do a lot of work in the DEI space as part of your role. And so I just want to know, do you think it's, as Black people, do you think it's our responsibility to educate? That's a tough one for me. I have some bias in that because I'm an educator at heart, right? So my inclination is going to always want to be to educate others. It's always going to be because I'm a lifelong learner. So I'm always learning. I'm always excited about the opportunity to learn new things. And I'm always wanting to inspire that in other people. And so I personally, because of that passion, feel like I'm happy for it to be my responsibility. But I don't think it's fair for people to sit back in organizations and point to minority employees or diverse employees and make it their mission to educate. I think that if people want to do it and if they're passionate about it, then they should do it if they're diverse employees. But I don't think that they should be the ones left to carry the burden of trying to turn the ship around in an organization. So I think that it's about, as a Black woman, for me, it's my personal preference to be engaged and involved in this work. It's part of my purpose and mission in life to do this. But I would never think, because you're a Black person or Brown person, that this is now fundamentally your work. This should be everyone's work. And I can't state that enough. This should be everyone's work. Yeah, I think that's a really fresh perspective. Because from what I've asked other people this question as well is, who should hold, I guess, responsibility? And I really liked how you said it, how it should be everyone's work. Because I feel like since we all work together and things like that, I feel like, I don't know, it shouldn't just be on one community, I guess, is what I'm saying. No, it absolutely should not be. Yeah. So with that being said, do you think DEI leaders at companies are doing enough across the board from what you've seen on maybe LinkedIn or what you've heard other people talk about? I think, for me, the more important question and what I sort of wrestle with a lot more is, are they given the space to do what they want to do? So it's not really about them wanting to do this or if they're doing enough. They want to do the work. This is, I said to someone the other day, DEI work is love work. It's not the kind of work that you just sort of decide that you're going to start doing one day. There's something in your core that really drives you to do this because it's hard. It's really, really difficult to make changes and to drive change in an organization because you are dealing with many, many years of trying to right some wrongs. But you need to, if you hire a DEI leader, you need to give them the space to lead. You need to trust that they know what they're doing. And I think that's where a lot of DEI leaders struggle. And that is the reason why I've always wanted to do more of this work. I wanted to dive deeper into it and I've been in HR for a long time. But part of the reason that I haven't done that is because when I've interviewed for these roles and people have told me what the structure is and what the scope of my responsibilities are and whether or not I get funded or I get a team and how they're setting me up to be empowered to really drive change, that's always been lacking for me because to me, it screams set up for failure. It's not giving, as you would say, what I think the EI leader should be giving. So people hire CFOs, they hire C-suite executives, and they tell them right off the bat, you will have this much money, you will have this size of a team. I think you will find immediately that you will not see those same consistencies across the board for DEI leaders. Right. And I do feel like where I work, there isn't a lot of work being done in terms of like DEI. And it's not really present where I am. And I always wonder like, what, like where is the... It's not giving. And I mean, I see like little like, oh, newsletters like, oh, happy Black History Month. And that's it. I'm like, oh, okay. But I do believe that it is lacking certain areas. And you're right that there's not a lot of space for them. And I really wonder, like, what is it that is stopping them from giving them more space to do the work? I think whether people admit this or not, there's a fear in letting, you know, in creating that space for people, I shouldn't say letting, in creating that space. Because what, the kind of change that's needed can sound really controversial to some people. And that makes people uncomfortable. Right? They don't want to have that conversation. They just want to wave from a distance and be like, yeah, yeah, let's do it. Right? No one really wants to peel back and understand how we got here and what we need to do to change. People don't want to educate themselves. They don't want to read those books. They don't want to hear those stories. Right? And when you are doing the work of DEI, you have to get people to confront that in real life. You have to get them to face up to the fact that we've missed the boat on certain things. And we have to right those wrongs. And it takes investment. Right? Because now you're going to have to put some money into, you know, trying to get past these inequities that you have. It takes policy and process change in your systems. That can take time. That's rooting out the systemic things that we've always done in organizations. And that's really, really hard. You know, you're basically, a lot of people feel almost accused. Right? Right? Definitely. And I think you have to get past that. You have to get past this idea that it's an attack. It really is about uncovering what's held you back from making progress and then working together to drive that change. Exactly. And I really agree with the part when you mentioned how people don't want to be uncomfortable. Because I noticed a lot when I was, like, I learned a little bit about DEI, like, when I was in college and stuff. And I took a few courses for, like, to become an RA, etc. And people were very uncomfortable with, like, the fact that, you know, of things that have happened throughout our history, and no one really wants to, like, speak up, and no one wants to be politically incorrect. But I feel like that's kind of, like, a cover up to be like, oh, I just don't want to offend anyone or, like, things like that. And so I believe that we have to be uncomfortable with being, we have to be comfortable being uncomfortable in discussing these things. Because it's only, it's the only way that we're going to progress and, you know, create more diversity in spaces where there isn't a lot of people of color. 100% agree. So anyway, I think what you've also touched on in terms of creating space, I don't know that we can always wait for people to give us that space. I think sometimes I know, and whenever we talk about these things, I'm purely speaking from my perspective. And I think that even when I've had the opportunity to take up space, I've been a little reluctant to do so. Because there's also a discomfort for me in stepping forward in that way, right? Like, we talk about other people feeling the discomfort of confronting racism in the workplace, confronting microaggressions, and not knowing what to do or what to say. The thing can be said for us is that there's a million questions that run through my head. And I was having a conversation with a colleague the other day. And I said, you just probably get to come to work. I don't know. I'm assuming that when you get up in the morning, you come to work, and it's just your day to do what you need to do. I said, I'm constantly thinking, is my afro too big? Is this lipstick too bold? Am I speaking too loudly? Am I being too aggressive? Was I too direct? Right? Because again, there's a perception of what people think black women are doing, even if they're doing nothing at all. All of a sudden, we can say the exact same thing as our white counterparts. But when we say it, it's heard differently. It's seen differently. So we're constantly trying to manage that. We're constantly trying to manage the environment that we're in so that we can do what we need to do in that space without really offending or upsetting anyone. I heard a black woman executive in a really massive organization a few weeks ago say, I've been with this organization 30 years, and I only felt comfortable last week confronting something that I was uncomfortable about. And she said, I felt uncomfortable, but I still did it because I now feel like I've gotten to a point where I can say these things. I mean, I can retire if they don't like it. If they fire me financially, I'm okay. And that really hit me that 30 years as a top executive in a huge organization, you still feel like you can't quite say what you want to say because there's still some danger in it for her. There's still some risk. And that's a very real thing. People, don't say whatever you want. You can't really. Right? Right. And I feel similar to what you mentioned because I feel like sometimes I have to tone it back a little bit, even though I'm not really doing that much. But I am more aware of how I say things and how I navigate different situations, especially at my job, because majority of the people that I work with are white and there's not a lot of black people at my job. And so I feel like, Oh, I have to act a certain way or be a certain way in order for them to be like, Oh, okay. We understand where she's coming from. And I feel like when I do try to voice my opinions on certain things that it may come across as, Oh, you're being a little bit too aggressive and stuff like that. So I definitely feel like there is some caution when it comes to like, especially for black women, when it comes to like navigating those spaces as well. When I heard you say, I'm not even doing that much. And because I'm your mom, I see all sides of data. And no matter what you're doing, even when I think you are being the most extra you can be, I always think to myself, you're just doing the right amount. And I think you need to remember that because you get programmed into thinking you are too much, you're doing too much. You are to this and to that. You have to, as a black woman, hold on to the fact that whatever it is you're doing and however it is that you're doing it, you are doing the right amount. And that's perfect. I think that obviously, you know, we're always going to be on learning journeys and growing and, you know, discovering new things, but what we shouldn't be doing is minimizing ourselves to be not too much. And we're all different, right? We all have these different personalities, these different traits, but however you do that, however you're walking through life as a black woman, you are doing exactly the right amount. Yeah, I really like that energy where it's like, oh, I'm doing enough. Like I don't, you know, this is, I feel like what I really want to see more of is just being, just embracing like who we are as a people, because I feel like in America, you kind of have to, I feel like that there's kind of like this unspoken expectation to be a certain way and be under certain standards based on society's rules. And so sometimes I feel like I have to conform to those rules in order to fit in, in order to be, you know, taken seriously, I guess. So I do agree that we should just be more, we should just be ourselves more. But I also feel like, you know, sometimes you have to be like professional and sometimes you have to maybe not be like too much. But then again, I feel like that's me again, like going back and forth between what is expected versus like what I should be for myself, I guess. And you're going to go back and forth because you're constantly in an environment where that's being questioned, that's being looked at, that's being pulled apart. So you having that concept within yourself, and I think you said being professional, right? And you what does that, what does professional even mean? Right? How do we define professional? Right? And I remember, I think a while ago, LinkedIn had a commercial of people, different people doing different things in their lives, wearing different clothes. And I loved it so much, I think it was LinkedIn, because it was about this is what professional is. And what they were doing was creating space for everyone to feel like professional is whatever you feel professional is. I'm of the mind, especially being in HR and working with folks all the time, that if you're respectful, if you're kind, if you create space for others, to me, you're professional. I don't care what you wear, I don't care what color your hair is. I don't care what your preferences are. If you are in the workspace, doing your job, being aware of other people, being aware of yourself. To me, that goes a long way in talking about professionalism. But I actually never use the term, this person is not professional. I think you need to call what you're seeing what it is. Right? And I ask people all the time, what is the impact to the work? I do not have the tolerance for people who say to me, this person is not professional. And then when I say, why aren't they professional and they cannot articulate something that has something to do with the work? I'm like, sir, ma'am, please return to your seat and see me when you have something to say. Because that does not count. That will not hold water with me. I need to know how it's impacting your team, how it's impacting your work, the size of someone's hair, their outfit choice, their preferences in life, their personal has nothing to do with professionalism. Now, I am opposed to other people, you know, just taking up all the space in the room, right? Because they have to be the only voice heard, or they have to put their beliefs on everyone else. If you're going to oppress other people with your stuff, because you feel like you are oppressed, then to me, that is not safety. That is not an open environment. That is not, you know, what we should be striving. To me, that can be viewed as unprofessional. Right? But other than that, I hate to hear that. I hate when people say, oh, it's not professional. Okay. Right. I have a very strong side eye towards those people. Because it's like, what are you talking about? I don't know. Especially when you mentioned that when people put their opinions on other people and expect them to agree with them, it's kind of like, I don't think so. If it doesn't work like that, people aren't, you know, programmed, I guess, to think the same as other people. And I think that kind of creates issues when it comes to creating diversity and creating safe spaces for people to speak up and to be themselves. It is such a missed opportunity, Jada. It is such a missed opportunity for you to force people to think the way you think or do things the way that you do them. And here's why. When there's diversity, there's a richness. Right? There's different perspectives. There's different life experiences. It can only make things better. I have never seen a very group of minds and people come together and that to not yield great results. Right? If you're all the same, thinking all the same, doing all the same things, you might get to where you're going. But there's a different flavor to it. Right? There's a different thing that happens, a different kind of magic when you bring people together that have different experiences, that have lived in different places, that have different cultures, that have different beliefs, that challenge your thinking. This is how people grow. This is how you actually get better. So there is tons of research that supports that more diverse organizations do better. It actually impacts your bottom line really positively. There is no downside to driving diversity besides your discomfort, which is for a moment. Right? You're like, oh, well, now that I know it's not that uncomfortable. Right? But there's no downside to it. It's a missed opportunity. And that's the most frustrating thing about trying to drive DEI. A lot of people think it's because you feel like you were wrong and things need to be right and you need to get stuff and you're deserving of this. And you're absolutely deserving of those things. It's a missed opportunity to not involve people at different levels of your organization and to not learn from that and grow from that. Right. I 100% agree because I like meeting people who come from different backgrounds because it allows me to challenge my own perspective on things and to gain new outlooks on different things that we discuss, especially in the workplace. And when you mentioned that bringing these rich ideas can create more collaborative spaces. And I believe that that is a good thing. And if we don't promote that, then we're not really progressing. We're really just staying stagnant at this, you know. Yeah. Yeah. No, we really are. And I think that that needs to be, but you see, that's where we come back to the work and who does the work and who pushes for the work and who fights for the work. Right. I think that it always feels to me that I am going to have a little bit more skin in the game. And I'm not saying that my white counterparts and colleagues, I've worked with some phenomenal women, you know, specifically who in the last few years have really partnered with me to drive DI initiatives. But I think there is something to be said about what I have lived through. Right. I can provide a perspective. So sometimes when you haven't done anything, and this can happen to me in things that I haven't experienced personally, is that I'm not thinking through it based on a lived experience. I am thinking about it based on what I perceive to be ideal. Right. And then other people will show me, well, if we do it like this, it misses this person or there's this gap. But that's where that diversity of thought is really important. Right. Is that we want to hear the different voices to create the best employee experience possible. And I am one person and I cannot speak for every single person that comes into our organization. I think the point is to hear from different people to think about, oh, did I miss the boat on this? Or could we have done this differently? We're actually in the process now of changing one of our yearly trainings because I heard from an employee that the training had a significant gap as it related to transgender people. And I would not have known that. I would not have known that there was a mistake in the training stated. So, you know, how many trainings go? I don't know. 1992. Right. But it did shine the light on the fact that we had to do things differently. When I took the training, I thought, well, it's not great, but it gets the job done. Yeah. But then to hear that was actually offensive. And I'm like, whoa. Right. We have to we have to think about this differently. So, again, this is where diversity is so important. It's not about black people, brown people, white people, you know, your sexual preference. This is about space for everyone. Opportunities, growth, development, progress, safety for everyone. And I do feel like that's lacking in certain spaces, especially now that we live in a time where there's, you know, it's not just black and white, like there's a lot of gray area. And I feel we have to address those things. And I think it comes back to your initial statement about being comfortable, being uncomfortable, because, you know, like you said, we need to include everyone. And if not everyone's being included and not feeling supported, then what is the point of DEI, you know, if we're not serving everyone who needs to feel like safe and included. And so I do believe that we have to continue to update ways to, you know, push things forward. We can't just live in the past and think it's going to be okay with outdated trainings and things of that sort. I mean, you're right. It's hard work, Ada, because you have to be relentless in this work. You have to be fearless. You have to be passionate. But you also have to be compassionate. There has to be a component of empathy that exists in this space. I think that if you're driven by frustration and anger, which can happen, because, again, you feel like you're constantly climbing this, you know, hill, this uphill battle all the time. So I take my hat off to people who do this on a daily basis, who are trying to make the world better, and who are committed to seeing this work through. And I do believe that seeing the work through is a way for us to have hope, because I feel like, you know, people want to see more, not only more diversity, but also, like, more representation with people in certain roles. Like, I'm sure like you, that's, like, the role that you're in. I know a lot of people probably look up to you and probably aspire to be at your level one day. So I do feel like with DEI, there's also, it creates hope for people, I believe. It does. And I think that, you know, hope is one thing. And I also think actually doing the work and holding people accountable is the other thing, right, is that organizations will never, they'll never forge a path forward with this if they don't make the commitments to it. And I was talking to a CEO maybe last year, and he was talking to me about the DEI role in his organization and what he was trying to shape it to be. And he said, I don't want to have any metrics or goals set against DEI, because I don't want to deliver something, you know, I don't want to promise to do something that I can't do. I don't want to say, oh, I'm going to increase women representation and leadership roles by 50%, and then I don't deliver that. I think that really doesn't look good, so I don't want to have any goals. And I had an issue with that, because I was thinking to myself, wait a minute, you have financial goals. There's no guarantee that you're going to meet those financial goals. But guess what? You're going to do everything that you can to try and meet those financial goals. You're going to give it your best effort. You're going to focus, you're going to do the work, you're going to do the research, you're going to hire the best people. You're going to do all these things to make sure that you meet that financial goal and that you can report to your stakeholders that you did that. Sir, I would like you to keep that same energy for DEI. I would like you to set some goals and do everything that you can to meet those goals so you can show your stakeholders and your investors and your board that you met that goal. I think until people start viewing DEI that way, until they start – I think the saying is, what gets measured gets done. Until it financially hits you, if you have leaders and organizations that are not hiring, that they don't have diverse panels when they're looking for folks, that they're not promoting people of color, or they're not promoting women, or whatever the case, whatever the metric is, I think that should be part of your bonus. That should be part of how you're compensated. Because if everything else takes into account the financial aspects of your role and what you deliver on and how you perform against your goals, if you're paid for that, DEI should be included in those metrics for sure. Because that is the only way we'll get to a point where DEI is just part of what we do. If we just say, oh, it's nice to do DEI, if we can, you know, let's have a meek make or something – no, no, no. We need it to matter. Right. And I believe bringing it forward, like what you said, including it, because I feel like people miss that. Oh, DEI – it feels kind of like a side piece, honestly. Like it's not really that important. Like it's there, but it's not – you know, it's used when needed, like for things. And so that's what I feel like. And I feel like bringing it forward and making it more important will change the way that people view – will change the way people view DEI. 100 percent. I like that you said it's a side piece. Does that mean something else to your generation? Yeah, I'm just saying, like, figuratively. It's definitely an add-on for a lot of people. No, that's 100 percent true. And I think that, you know, again, until we prioritize that, until we make it important, I would love for us to not just wait until Black History Month to talk about, you know, black history, to highlight the many accomplishments of, you know, black people in this country. You know, I would like us not to wait until March to talk about women's history. It would be so refreshing for that to just be something that we do, something commonplace. You know, your little cousin, Juliet Rose, is – how old is she? Eight, right? Eight. And she has a very clear sense of when she's watching a show, the representation that's in that show, you know, people historically who have done things for black people. You know, she's been learning about Abe Lincoln. And eight, she has a view, she has an understanding of what she expects to see. And she will question when she watches television shows that don't have great representation. She will question when she sees things or when she sees certain behaviors. She'll call that out at the age of eight. She's really self-aware at that point. And I think to myself, I know people that don't even think about these things, right? Right. They just – all these years on this earth, but that's because she's in a school where the educators have made that a priority. She has parents at home that have made that a priority. We have to see the same thing in organizations. We have to have leaders that make this a priority. We have to also do our own work. We can't sit around waiting for the DEI leader to come through with a program. If you can Google, then you can buy a book. Then you can educate yourself. You can – you don't even need to buy a book. You can read about history, black history, for free, right? You can have a voice. You can champion the efforts of folks who are trying to take that component of education out of schools. And you can say and do something about that. So this is really everyone's job. I know we started at the top of the hour, like, who should be doing this? Yes, those people have a passion, but fundamentally, as a human being, you really should be able to make space for other people. Or you're just garbage. I'm sorry. I'm not sorry. Yeah, I agree. Google is free. It is. So there's no excuse. People did not have access to things many, many years ago. The one thing that we have in this day and age is access. We really have no excuses. And I think that every day being on some kind of learning journey brings you closer to understanding and wanting to do things differently. But you shouldn't be waiting to be spoon-fed education and then decide whether or not you're going to chew on it or whatever, right? Right. I agree. And so, in conclusion – You're getting me off my high horse. Mom, calm down. I see you're very passionate. We love to see it. So thank you for your insight. I really appreciated that because, like I said, Black History this year was a little bit too quiet for me. I wish there was a little bit more energy there. But I believe this conversation just sheds light on how important Black history, Black stories, and encouraging the fact that there needs to be more spaces in DEI and in the workplace as well. With that being said, this concludes the end of our podcast episode, and that's on period. So please find our episode on Spotify, and we'll be back with another episode soon. Thanks, Jada. Yep, no problem. Bye, guys.
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