Salt

The Oak Podcast is discussing the book "How Much of Peace Hills is Gold" by C. Pam Zhang. The book follows the story of Lucy, a Chinese girl during the Gold Rush in California. The podcast hosts, Ella and Kate, loved the book and were fascinated by the history of oppression against Chinese immigrants during that time. They discuss Lucy's struggle between her Chinese heritage and her personal identity. They also analyze an excerpt about Lucy's feelings of shame and her connection to her family and heritage through the symbol of salt. They recommend the book for those interested in the Chinese immigrant experience and themes of personal and collective identity. Hey everybody, this is Ollie from ABC, and you're listening to The Oak Podcast, the show that dissects up-and-coming books by bookworms for bookworms. Today we're talking about How Much of Peace Hills is Gold by C. Pam Ching, with Ella Ogden and Kate McLaughlin, who will focus us in on an excerpt about the main character, Lucy. Hi guys, how are you both doing today? I'm doing well, thanks for having me. I'm also doing well, excited to dive into it. Great to hear. I'm going to start with a brief summary of the book for our readers who may be unfamiliar with the novel, and then I'd love to hear your thoughts. So, Hills is about a Chinese family who immigrated to California during the Gold Rush. It follows the story of a daughter, Lucy, who has to bury both of her parents, Ma and Ba, and manage a struggling sister. Her story touches on ideas like the American Dream and identity. Now, what did you guys think about the book? Ella, I'll start with you. Yeah, totally. I read the book the other day, and I absolutely loved it. Like you said, the book is set during the Gold Rush, so not an uncommon story, but I was blown away by the narrative Zhang chose to explore and redefine. I didn't really know anything about the Chinese American experience of that era until I read the novel, and I wish more people knew their perspective. For sure. For sure. The Gold Rush attracted all types of people from all over the world. In the United States, which accounted for unimaginable amounts of discrimination and racism towards Chinese immigrants, many white Americans didn't want foreigners weakening their chances of finding gold or living on land that supposedly belonged to them. Kate, did you think similarly? Yeah, I had pretty much the same response to reading the book. I was fascinated and horrified by the history of oppression against that group during the Gold Rush. I also think Zhang was incredibly smart with her approach to the story by sharing the perspective of a young girl. Lucy doesn't really have any physical ties to her home in China, only through her family and heritage, especially through Ma. And although she faces discrimination in America, she also falls in love with advanced society and civilization and learning. So there emerges a struggle between Lucy's history and Chinese heritage and her personal identity and future. It's an idea that's really hard to capture, as well as Zhang did. That's a really interesting point, Kate. Especially because many readers are learning about that specific history of Chinese immigrants for the first time when reading the book. So it makes a lot of sense that readers journey through the oppressive experience alongside Lucy. It's easy to understand and relate to her struggles and aspirations. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and if you don't mind, I'll add something here. I know we haven't really gotten into the excerpt yet, but I found Lucy's attachment to the table salt she stole from her teacher to be one of the most interesting parts of the novel. It captures W.E.'s thought. We're about to do that now. On page 138 through 140 of Hills, there's a scene after Lucy steals table salt from her teacher, Teacher Lei. She takes the salt home, but Ma catches her cooking with it. A moment of nostalgia watches over Ma as the salt reminds her of her past home in China and her regret coming to America in search of gold. Lucy also has an intense emotional moment, but of shame when she starts to understand her separation from her family and heritage. How does the excerpt explore these emotions? Well, I think Ma's emotions are more straightforward. She was forced to America by her husband and never having wanted to leave her home, lives in feelings of regret and longing for her past. She even says, sometimes I think you and Sam might have had a better life there, referring to China, of course. Yeah, I agree, Ella. I don't think Ma's emotions are straightforward or simple, but I think they're less dimensional than Lucy's experiences. She's a young girl who has a weakening connection to her home country, but she still has obligations to it and to her family that pull at her throughout the novel. When Ma mentions how she wonders if they shouldn't have left home, the first home Lucy thinks of is their old campsite, not China, like what Ma thought. At the end of the excerpt, when Lucy's eating the food she seasoned with Teacher Lei's salt, she talks about lessons in shame. Where does her feelings of shame come from? Lucy's shame comes from her connection with her heritage. She loves and feels connected to her family, especially Ma, so she feels an obligation to her Chinese heritage. At the same time, though, she's already started to develop a love for opportunity and the chance of education and success and a more prosperous future. Or the American dream. Yeah, the American dream. Her family came to America with the American dream, falling for the empty promises of success in America, and Lucy is falling for similar notions. Her aspirations of education have a little more truth behind them than all of the declining goals in college. And to me, Lucy's aspirations seem to be the cause of her shame. She's trying to maintain a relationship with her Chinese heritage and follow her personal dreams in America at the same time. Her family and her individual identity come to a crossroads. And that's what salt's a symbol for. To Ma, salt is a representation of home in China and a reminder of her regretful life in America. She says, You can see how salt reminds her of the life she left behind. To Lucy, however, salt represents the possibility of a more civilized life in the United States, and it symbolizes the high social status that Lucy wants for herself in the future. And right after Ma tells Lucy about salt in China and fish from the ocean, and her grandmother, Lucy starts to understand Ma's perspective and regret for coming to America and following the American dream. The novel says, That's a great quote. Zhang does such a good job with painting vivid scenes like that throughout the novel. Yeah, Lucy starts to understand the different meanings of salt to herself and Ma. She feels shame for not understanding Ma's sense of regret and isolation before, which comes down to Lucy's inadequate connection with her Chinese heritage and family. Or not inadequate, but maybe less than what Ma feels with her Chinese heritage. And this connection that's been weakened by her aspirations in America. To circle back to your question, Ollie, Lucy's shame comes from the separation she feels between her own aspirations and identity and her family and heritage, which is symbolized through salt. And I noticed similar ideas in the rest of the novel. Salt was also used to purify burial ceremonies like Ba's, showing more connections to Chinese heritage. Even though Lucy believed in those traditions, salt started denoting civilization and high society as she grew into herself, and her aspirations took shape. Totally. Do you see the obligations of family history again? Well, I think that's all that we have time for today. I feel like we've covered a lot about Hills, such a great book. And it has been an absolute pleasure having both of you guys on the Oak podcast today. No, thank you. I love talking with both of you. Same here. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure, and I hope all the listeners today will give how many of these Hills is gold to read, or flip back to the excerpts we discussed on page 138. I recommend Zhang's work to anybody wanting to learn more about the Chinese immigrant experience during the California gold rush, or wanting to explore the American dream, personal identity, or collective identity through family and heritage. Any last words, guys? If you have any feedback, comments, or questions, don't hesitate to reach out to us through the ABC website. Of course, and make sure to subscribe to the Oak podcast for more awesome content from Ollie. Thanks, guys. Any support or feedback helps me create more content for you and all of our listeners. Until next time, happy reading.