What this World Needs Now with Reese Gabrielle Starling

The Rhode Island Right to Read Act requires all teachers in the state to be trained in the science of reading by 2025. The act aims to improve literacy skills and ensure that students have access to certified librarians. It will have different requirements for elementary and high school teachers. The act is specific to Rhode Island and it is unclear if it will be enforced nationwide. The act is expected to bring positive changes in reading proficiency and will require professional development for educators. It is believed to be worth it in the long run. The impact will be assessed through standardized tests. The act does not seem to have a direct connection to school libraries. There may be federal funding available for literacy programs, but the speaker is not knowledgeable about the details. Hello, my name is Reese Gabrielle Sterling and with me today is the Rhode Island Senator Louis De Palma for the podcast, What the World Needs Now. Good to be here. I'm glad to have you here. Thank you for coming in. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. I know you came here today to discuss the Rhode Island Right to Read Act. Before we dive into the interview, I think the first question our audience will have is what exactly is it? Can you summarize it for us? And also, any other information you want to provide us about it? Absolutely. So the Right to Read Act was an act established by the Rhode Island General Assembly in 2019 and it was updated in 2022. And what the act requires is that by 2025, all teachers in teaching in the state of Rhode Island, I think primarily public school teachers, will be required to have been trained in the science of reading. And there's different requirements based on whether you're in elementary school or high school. So that's what it speaks to. From what I've read, this act ensures all students have access to a school library staffed by a certified librarian. Can you provide us more information on what the act will do? I know you said it will provide professional development for teachers and support. They'll have those new requirements. Is there anything else? So one of the critical things on the science of reading, taking us back to many older folks like myself, will remember how we learned to read based on phonics, phonics-based reading as opposed to what transpired over the last couple decades with regards to full language. The science of reading is, in fact, tried and true scientific-based literacy programs for teaching children, everyone to read. And that's what ensures that all teachers that will be teaching in the state of Rhode Island and also addresses teacher preparation programs, which we can talk about in a bit as well, are trained in the science of reading so that we can ensure the goal is that learn to read by three and then you'll read to learn for the rest of your life. Awesome. Will it just be enforced in RRI? I know it's a Rhode Island act. And then will it later be throughout the U.S.? Unclear. I think it's the case where every state, if this is not a mandate, so to speak, from the federal government, from the U.S. Department of Education, every state is different in this regard. I like to think each state will do something, in the case of Connecticut, people say we're always the last to do something, well, we're ahead of Connecticut. Connecticut is just beginning it, and I think they have a pilot, something I haven't looked at in detail what they're looking at, but the Write to Read Act, which seeks to address and ensure teachers are trained in the science of reading, this will not happen. What changes will this bring and how major will they be? So do you think they're going to be worth it in the long run? I believe yes. And we can talk about why both how I'm cautiously optimistic now and long term. The science of reading and what teachers have been, in the training they've gotten, there's many different training programs that are applicable to be trained in the science of reading, the various assessments that are used in the beginning of the year, the middle of the year, and the end of the year have already shown marked progress in assisting children. What we looked at today is really in the kindergarten, in grade one, because that's how you want to look at that, has shown the ability to intercede and provide course correction to address those areas of what children are deficient in and help children to advance, to become proficient in their reading level by the time they finish the grade that they're in. Oh, amazing. It is. It's exciting. It really is exciting. So, what kind of new requirements will there be for educators? Like, what kind of professional development do they need to take, and will it affect like every teacher or like target towards grade seven, so like kindergarten and first grade is usually what you look at? So, yes, it will affect every teacher, differently though. If you're an elementary school teacher, meaning elementary, meaning K-5 or K-4, you'll be required to be proficient, and that's what the science, the Right to Read Act articulates. You need to be proficient in the science of reading. If you're a classroom teacher, K-5, all other teachers will be required to be aware of the science of reading. Who does that apply to? Teachers who teach phys ed, teachers who teach in high school. They need to be aware. And so the level of training for proficiency for some of the programs is approximately 50 hours. Some are a little bit longer. The awareness is a little bit less. With regards to, we've had conversations, I'll tell you how I got involved with this. It is exciting, and we'll get to that in a minute, but some of the teacher preparation programs are already addressing this, and they're looking at your teacher and going through teacher preparation. One particular college or university requires you to take three courses in your teacher preparation program. When you've done that and successfully completed that, you will have that certification, that basically says you have been trained in the science of reading. That's interesting. I like that. This act supposedly also stands up against disinvestment and censorship in school libraries. So what kind of change and how grand do you think this will be? And is it one that you think most people will agree with as a good thing? Okay. So I'm not certain the connection with the library. That could be a, it may be another piece to it. What I'm aware of, there's not a connection to the library, so maybe there's a different piece that you saw in there. The Right to Read Act is primarily focused on the science of reading. Some people may have looked at it in some other areas. But it's ensuring that, as I indicated before, that children, young students, learn to read by three, so they'll read straightforward the rest of their lives. Because reading is one of the main skills you need with anything you do, whether it's your job or just in your daily life, because obviously, writing's everywhere. If you're unable to read, so I'm an engineer. I've been an engineer for 30 years. I am excited about engineering. We need more engineers, specifically female engineers. We're getting more of those. You have a major in computer engineering, don't you? I do. Computer engineering and computer science. And if we look at our statewide assessments, which is the WICAS, Rhode Island Common Assessment, it's patterned after the Massachusetts MCAS. So how will we know this works, going back to a question you asked earlier? So we're cautiously optimistic that, based on the assessments that we've seen over the last couple of years where it's been implemented in some school districts where teachers have been trained, you can see the progress throughout the year and from one year to the next. The true test of this is the standardized test. And I don't want to say the standardized test is the answer, but the WICAS test that children with distinct looks at for grades three and grades eight. So if you're in kindergarten a year prior and you just graduated and finished first grade in June of 2022, you will finish grade three in June of 2025. You will have taken the WICAS exam during the spring of 2025. The results will be out in the fall of 2025. That will be the true, I think a true marker, a mine in the sand or a marker out there to tell us, has it been working? To what degree has it been working? What do we need to change? Our proficiency in English in regards, there's nothing to write home about. We have a lot of work to do. We have even more work to do in mathematics. And if you think about eighth grade math, you start to look at some word problems. You say, what do you mean a word problem? So I can still remember to this day and over a long time ago, some of the word problems you would have in mathematics in eighth grade where it's very similar to this. I remember problems like that. I know WICAS is definitely, I remember all the students were stressing out about it when it came around in the spring because it means a lot for the school and for each of them individually. So it definitely, it has a big impact on students. And if you're unable to read in grade eight. That's a problem. You're not dealing with math problems. Exactly. The other area we've seen until, let me tell you, I'll tell you a little bit how we got involved with this. So I've had an intern work with me over the last, I've been in the General Assembly and the Senate for 15 years. I probably had a dozen plus interns. Intern I have right now is Deborah. She's a rising senior at Brown, majoring in education policy and a minor in economics. Together, we decided to work through the end of the session, looking at legislation and how the legislature works in the Senate specifically. And then we said, what do you want to do over the summer? What are we doing? And you'll see an op-ed coming soon about the implementation of the Right to Read Act, science of reading, the results that we've seen so far, teacher preparation programs. To the point now, she got so excited about this. I think she's excited about it. She was able to talk with her college professors. She's going to do a senior thesis on this for one or two semesters. Moving forward. That's amazing. Wow. Very exciting. Yeah. According to Publishers Weekly, this act would authorize up to $500 million in comprehensive literacy, state development grants, as well as an increase in the authorization for the innovative Approaches to Literacy program of about $100 million. Do you think this is true? And do you have anything to add to that? I can't comment on the value of what's being provided at the federal level. I know at the state level, there are various grant programs that cities and towns, local education authorities, school districts are applying for. One unfortunate pandemic was not a good thing. Outcomes of the pandemic was federal money that came available to help school districts with what we hear about learning loss. I'm sure you had to learn from home. Yeah, it was a huge bump in the road. I know for my younger sister, she was in second grade when it happened. So it not only hit her socially, where that's primarily where you make friends and stuff and learn how to hold relationships with other people, but also in her learning. She's a great student, but it was hard to connect with her teachers the same way as when we were in person. And if you were students, and we can talk about what the interns I have from Brown, we've seen as it relates to children with disabilities. But the challenge has been how to help close that learning gap. In fact, the op-ed might be, in fact, called Closing the Gap. It's important to do now, so federal money that was provided to cities and towns or school districts, they used that to pay for the training for teachers. For some teachers, it was a one-year training. Others were serious about this. And so other districts have applied for some grants through the state that I think became available through federal money. So why would you say that this is what the world needs now? I know we talked about how reading is everywhere. You need it for your math and future jobs and everything. But what is the importance that's here in this bill, just so our listeners fully understand it? So some of the listeners are my age, which is old. There's a concept that was out many years ago, and you'll still see it online if you go and look and search in Google, called Reading is Fundamental. Reading is fundamental. In fact, it was an ad back in the 60s and 70s, Reading is Fundamental. It might even have been on Saturday mornings, with conjunction function or whatever it was. It really is, reading is fundamental. Everybody needs to ensure they can read. Everybody can learn to read. You may need different instruction, different supports along the way. But it's critical. We have students in the state of Rhode Island in 8th grade that can't read. And if they're not reading in 8th grade, it's difficult. Because it becomes social. It becomes a whole bunch of other things that, and what happens if they can't read? They drop out of school. Reading really, not to reuse that term from the 60s and 70s, but reading is, in fact, fundamental. And if we can do anything, my take on it is, when successful, we in the state of Rhode Island, like I said, we're cautiously optimistic based on what we've seen. The WriCast will be a better indicator of, is it in fact working? Not that one test is the answer. We have to do something that the state says is the assessment. We need to figure out, how do we invest more into what? If this is in fact working. If it's not, then we need to do something about it. It's good that you're going to look at those scores and see if that's the solution that's working, or if there will be other things. And everyone deserves the tools to learn how to read. That's one of the main things. And just to get their education. Everyone has that right to their education. The fact that sometimes it's not getting to them, it's really sad. The interventions for children, when they're 1 year old, 2 year old, the early interventions when they're 3 year old, is paramount. The issue becomes, if we don't address those things there, and we can address a lot of those there, children ultimately will be requiring an individualized education plan. IEP, right? It's special education. It's going to cost us a lot more money then. It's going to help them learn to read, and help them with whatever accommodations or tactics or techniques or approaches they need. Because every child, every person is unique. We all do not learn the same. Exactly. I know, personally, I've known people with reading disabilities, and sometimes it's harder for them because they have the private class. I had this one friend who, they had a reading disability. And because of their reading disability, they had to take the extra class, they lost the opportunity to get into advanced math, which would then lead them to be a grade level above in high school in their math class. Do you think it would lessen some opportunities in some other areas if they took those classes? Do you think it would be worth it? I think it's the case where, for a period of time, it might impact what they're going to do. But the earlier we do that, the better. Because we all know, if we don't address it, it takes longer to close the gap. True. There's no solar bullet here, though, if we believe. And I'm an engineer, not an educator. If we believe the science of reading is, in fact, has the associated facts and data, by the educational professionals and the researchers that look at this, people will also say, and they should say that, well, they said that same thing regarding whole language. I think the woman's name was Lucy Coffin, who basically did the whole language thing. You guys have kids write journals, it doesn't make a difference what they're writing, how they're writing and doing, whatever. But when they started to read, they looked at some of the reading stuff, not sounding out the words, what the sound makes and how to make an expression, what the th means. When they went to read, they couldn't read. I feel like people underestimate, kind of invalidate how important this is, because for some kids it can be really hard, and not having different ways, because everyone learns differently. So if a teacher is only teaching it one way, they'll only work for some students, and for others they need a different way of being taught. And also just writing isn't reading and speaking it and pronunciation. I remember in kindergarten, we'd have these little books, and for half the class you'd be writing, and then the teacher would call you up to the desk, and you'd have to read the little books out loud so they could assess how you're reading out loud. So I think that's very, very important for every student to go through, to make sure that they're actually reading properly, so they can also be comprehending what they're reading as well, because that's just as important. It's important, and part of the science of reading is also the ability to know that you're reading a word that's not going out loud. You can sound it out phonetically, you can categorically sound the word out, but at the end of the day, what's the meaning of it? It's as much about sounding out real words as it is sounding out words that aren't real. I didn't even think of that. It's kind of like in my own brain, I don't realize how it's different. When you're little, you don't realize some words are different than others, their meanings, and like you said, ones that aren't even real words. There's something to find out on the web or social media, where there'll be a paragraph where every single word is spelled incorrectly. So given your education and reading ability, you can read the whole paragraph and know three or four sentences, every word is spelled incorrectly. You can read it and know exactly what it says, because you're sounding out those words, it's like instead of spelling a word wrong, and it's not just a homonym, where it sounds the same, but spelled differently or whatever. When you read it, you'll actually read the entire thing and every single word's wrong. You know because of your education that, oh that sound, that's really not that word, it's some other word, but this is the sound that it makes. Exactly, you kind of just click it together in your brain. Correct. One issue we have and we see with regards to the Whitecast, we hope it doesn't continue to be pervasive. If we look at grade three, we can go on the Rhode Island Department of Education website, and look at the Whitecast results, and you click on the regular results, and what else do you want to compare? All the performance assessments of students with disabilities. Grade three, less than 5% are sufficient. That's unconscionable. Less than 5%. And we're not talking 20 students, so that's a small number. We're talking hundreds into the thousands. I can't believe that. Less than 5%. Now if you go to specific school districts, and you'll see the numbers here, because they're more than 5% that are sufficient, or greater than sufficient. If you look at statewide, doesn't show up. And if you look at Providence, Providence does not have any numbers either. You'll get a double asterisk there. Double asterisk, I think it's a double asterisk, that basically says they're not showing any numbers, because less than 5% are sufficient. So children with disabilities need even more intervention. So we just pulled up the RICAS assessment data portal to look at the statistics of students, their average test scores. So if you look at some of the scores across the state, one of the issues we talked about earlier, has to do with students with disabilities. Yes. Students with disabilities are at a severe disadvantage with regards to being proficient in reading. Someone would say, well, they have disabilities. That's a fact. We understand that. They potentially need more intervention to help them become proficient in reading. And this is all disabilities. Some with severe disabilities, some with not so severe disabilities. I don't know what they all apply. But if we look at, in the case of statewide, for students with disabilities in grade... Three. Three. We have not quite 10%, 9.6% of students in grade three. And there's about 1,600 of them with disabilities that are proficient. If we look at grade three, right? It's over... It's 51.3% of those 1,600 grade three students with disabilities that are in the red, which means they're not meeting expectations. And we have yet another almost 30% that are partially meeting proficiency. A lot of work to be done. A lot of work to be done. If we then move to students without disabilities across the entire state, we see a number of 41.9%. I believe that's what we're looking at here. That are exceeding or meeting expectations. So that means that more than 50% of the students in grade three are not meeting, are not proficient. And that's really concerning that needs to be changed. Then if we look down to students in grade eight without disabilities, we'll go to that one first. It's about 8,800 students that were tested. And about 33% of those are in fact proficient. But then that leads... Without disabilities. Yes. But then that leads, like you said, 66.6. 66.6 and 33.4. Last time I looked, that was 100%. So two-thirds. That are still not meeting expectations. Correct. Even without disabilities. Right. Now if I look at the students in grade eight across the entire state with disabilities, and there's about... 1,400. 1,400 students. We have less than 5%. Less than 5% are meeting expectations in reading. Less than 5%. So one could say if that 90% or 10% of the number take 144 away, still got 1,300. 1,200, 1,300. You still have 1,300 students. That's way too many students that are being left in the dark and abandoned about. We need to figure out how to address. Now let's move to... One of the things we always have to look at and people say, well, why do you care and say so much about Providence? I used to chair the Senate Committee on Oversight. I'm now the chair for the Senate Committee on Finance. All those hands in hand. With regards to Providence, it was taken over by the state of Rhode Island. So the Rhode Island Department of Education has accountability and responsibility for the school district in the city of Providence. Basically, the city of Providence said to the state, please take this over for us. We need your help. Okay, so the state did. If we look at the city of Providence with regards to students without disabilities in grade 3, we see 18%, a little over 18% meeting expectations. And if we look at that same information, students without disabilities in grade 8, 15%. 15 in grade 8, 18 in grade 3. That are meeting expectations. That are meeting expectations. So a little over 81% of the grade 3 students are not meeting expectations. And then even throughout until grade 8, there is... They go down even more. Yeah. So, almost, not quite. 84% and change. We're down to 85% of students in Providence without disabilities in grade 8 are not meeting expectations on the RYCAST assessment. Let's just put it in context. People say, well, that's one assessment. That's what the state is using to figure out where we need to go. It's one of the biggest assessments in... I know here in Middletown, when I had to take the RYCAST assessment, it's very big here at the schools. I know a lot of kids don't take them seriously, though. They don't realize how important it is for it to properly be measured. So we need to address that. We don't want to teach to the test, understand all that. We need to assess where we need intervention and what changes need to be made. The last thing, which is extremely staggering. Extremely staggering. If we look at Providence, all schools, grade 3 with disabilities are approximately... 254 students that were tested. With disabilities grade 3 across the entire city of Providence. And... Less than 5% of them were meeting those expectations. And we're seeing less than 5%. And we don't know what the number is because they don't report the number. If it's less than 5%, they don't report it. And if we look at... And that says... And with that, 97% or almost 98% of the students with disabilities in grade 3 in Providence were assessed with the RYCAST. Let's fast forward now to grade 8 students with disabilities. There were approximately... There were... 217 students tested. 88% of those students... 217 students with disabilities... Over 88% took the exam. Took the RYCAST assessment and language arts. And there is... Less than 5% that were proficient. Less than 5%. So they couldn't report on it. So if I take... An easy way to look at that... 10%... If you always want to get 10% of a number, take off the last digit and that's 10%. So out of 217, if I take off the last digit, but about 21 students is 10%. If I take half of that, which is 5%, that's 11. Not even 11 students were... It's a little over like 10... 10-ish students that can actually... Right, so if we want to round... Because it's hard to have a half a student, right? If we want to say less than 5%, we're talking 10. 10 out of 217 students are meeting expectations in their reading. We need... The intervention is needed there. There may be some severe disabilities that need to be addressed. But that's our job as a state to figure out. And clearly, with regards to right now, the state of Rhode Island is in charge and has accountability and responsibility for the Providence School District. The vest on our shoulders. We got to get it right. So as... There's about 24,000 students in our district. As Providence goes, so goes the entire state. It's important we fix this. Clearly based on the numbers we just talked about earlier. And if we were to look at the numbers for mathematics, they're all less than that. All less than that. Because reading isn't so needed in math for the word problem. It's just the reading of the problems. Correct. And as we said, this has been really eye-opening. I highly suggest that you guys go to rye.ri.gov to see the test scores for yourself if you can't believe us. Because this is insane. It would be www.ride.gov. Yeah. Right. Rhode Island Department of Education. So R-I-D-E abbreviation for the Rhode Island Department of Education. It's insane. I really hope this act helps. And I think it will. We're working on some, getting some communication out there to show that why we think it's working. And it's really about closing the gap of where we are now to have everybody be proficient. That's not just aspirational. We need to figure out how to get there. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Here's part of the challenge and what we heard. We heard from some experts in the field and go back to measures and metrics. There have been some areas where there's been a focus on Lou and Reese are partially proficient. They're almost proficient. And Sally and Mary and Joe are not, they're farther down. Let's go focus on Reese and Lou. Our numbers will be better because they'll become proficient. Sally, Mary and Joe, sorry, they get caught and we'll call them. Perpetuary. Yes. Because they're not in the bubble. But you and I, we're on the bubble and with a little intervention, intervention purgatory. They can't get enough. They're too far away. We're close. By doing it, the school or the numbers will go up and that's the downside. Recently I read this book by Malcolm Gladwell and it's interesting. Not my favorite. Definitely not great expectations either. But at least I could read it and learn from it. But for this book, it definitely talked about that. It's something about selection. Like when those kids are already above, there's a study he did and it was about these hockey players. And so there's this deadline, the age limit you do for the school year. If you're born between this date you cannot try out for this team because this is your age bracket. The students that were born closer to the starting date, which would be just a few months older when they're six or seven, those few months need a lot more in their development than those kids that are like three or four months behind. So even professional hockey players, most of them were in the month that the deadline started because the kids that would get on the team wouldn't get that same, they would not get the same preparation because they were already set a little bit behind and then they focus on the kids that are already above and kept getting them higher and higher. So it kind of leaves those kids in the dark. So this act will fix that, not for hockey, but for reading. I think it's going to provide the right type of science base with the right types of assessments along the way, and the real reason why it should work, the teachers are critical. Teachers are critical for all of education, period. There is no substitute for the teacher. But the Right to Read Act in Rhode Island is focused on teacher training. At the end of the day, that's where it's going to happen. Because that's where the education lies, it's with the teachers who are going to be educating the next generation. And they're going to see that they've been through 10 times and they still can't pronounce it because it's just not clicking yet. Once it clicks, they're never going to forget it. Each of them need to be given that time and the tools so they can actually learn, not be given up on because everyone deserves the right to read and learn. If we want, going back to my fixation on needing more engineers, we need more engineers to be able to do math. We can do math. We'll have more people that even if they're not an engineer, still be able to ask data-driven questions doing the critical thinking that we need people to do. Setting that foundation of what everyone needs to learn then everyone can build up on it and keep getting better because it's only when you work for it that it will keep getting better. So helping everyone have the ability to learn to read by grade 3 and read to learn for the rest of your life. It's simple, but it's critical. We need to do everything we can to ensure we achieve that goal. When we achieve that goal, many more people solve the puzzle. So overall, ensuring that every child has the tools to learn and as it is their right after all is what is most important. So what we live in, we must first educate ourselves. I think that concludes our podcast. Thank you to all of you for listening into What the World Needs Now and thank you Mr. DiPalma for coming in. Thank you for doing this. I'm glad you're in Middletown. Yes, I live here in Middletown but I will be attending St. George's in Newport this coming September. We're still glad you're in the district Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you.