A Few Questions (But Anyways)-Part 2 (Diane Green)

In this conversation, the speaker's mother discusses her experiences traveling to exotic places with her husband. She talks about the joy of learning new things, meeting different people, and experiencing different cultures. She shares a story about a trip to Papua New Guinea, where they encountered unique traditions and had a memorable exchange with the locals. The mother also mentions a negative experience when she fell in a hole in Madagascar and injured herself. She discusses her favorite and least favorite trips, including visits to salt mines in Poland and Bogota. Finally, she mentions that if she had to move out of the U.S., she would choose Paris or England as her preferred destinations. Lisa: All right, part two of a few questions with my mom, Diane Green. I'm going to start with a deep one. When or where did or do you feel most like yourself? Diane: These are hard questions. What about the easy ones? What about the movies that you like? Why aren't I getting the easy questions? Lisa: Sort of like where do you feel most like yourself, like when you're doing a certain task or when you're around your family? I guess I'm leading the witness a little bit. Diane: Yeah, I don't know. I guess maybe some ways. One of the other questions that was on something was, what are some happy times? And so I associated with that. Lisa: Another question is, what was the happiest time in your life? So you want to answer that one instead. Diane: I think that some of the happier times of my life are the trips that we've taken, the trips that I've taken with my husband, Gil. And I think one of the reasons that I like is because, one, you're learning about new things, experiencing something new. I don't consider myself a very, I don't want to say inquisitive, because I think I'm inquisitive, but I'm not a very adventuresome person. But we've taken these trips, and some we've done on our own, and others we've taken with tours, tour groups. But we've gone to exotic countries and places that not a lot of people get to go to. And so I've really enjoyed those, and those have been some of our happier times. And it's like, no one's working, you're on vacation. You're eating different things, you're meeting different people, you're learning about things that you thought you would never learn about or know about. And so I think those are some of the happier times. And like I said, we've gone to some really interesting places and discovered things that not everybody gets to discover. And I guess an example of that that I've told this story many, many times to people, we went to Papua New Guinea. People always say, well, what is one of the more exotic places? Well, Papua New Guinea was definitely it. And it was a side trip of a trip to Australia, which was also probably one of our best trips ever. But it was a side trip, and it was just my husband and I and one other person. And we arrived in Port Moresby 14 hours late, because they couldn't figure out how to get a plane to get us from Australia to Papua New Guinea. And then we got on a little tiny private plane in which there was just a pilot and a co-pilot and the three of us. And the pilot or the co-pilot, actually, he was the pilot, kept looking at this map trying to figure out where to go. And I remember thinking, oh my God, we're going to someplace exotic, and we're going to die. Lisa: I love it. It's like an anthropologist. Diane: Yeah. And so and in fact, as we're flying over this area, I remember thinking, what's where one of the Rockefellers, you know, crashed the plane and died and was never seen ever again. And you were just flying over nothing. I mean, it was just flying over green and mountains. And we landed in a little field full of water. And as we alighted from the plane, these little kids came running up to us like an episode of, you know, some movie, "the plane, the plane", and they're running after us and they're wanting to carry our suitcases and stuff for us. And then after we went through the field, we ended up on a boat that looked like something out of, you know, some grade B movie. And the guy driving the boat's name was Basil or Basil, which is Brenda Starr, the person that she loved with the orchid, his name was Basil. And I mentioned that to the driver, of course, he had no idea what in the hell I was talking about, had no idea about that cartoon. And then we went from there down the river, you know, like something out of Apocalypse Now, into a road. And then from the road, they took us in some Jeep that looked like it was left from the 1930s up to this house and that's where we stayed for the next three days. I mean, that was like out of, wow, you know, what are we doing? And so those are the same kind of weird experiences. But one of the places that we stopped after that, the next place we stopped, we met these young men that belong to what's called the wig men. And they were preparing for puberty. And they grow their hair long, and then they end up cutting it off and turning it into a wig. That's why they're called the wig men. And they're telling us all about their ritual and what goes on, the head person is not the young men themselves. And it starts to pour rain. And we've come a long way from the vehicle that has brought us to their place and they take us to this shelter, and it just had a roof, it didn't have any sides or anything. And we're just sitting there, you know, eight or nine of us tourists, and eight or nine of these young men and our guide, like, what are we going to do? And my husband, the psychiatrist, says "You spent a lot of time telling us about your traditions. Do you have anything you'd like to ask us? Do you have any questions of us?" And initially, they're very shy, and they don't have anything. And finally, one of them said "How do I know which of you are married?" Because we were more women than men. Because in their tradition, a woman who's married, she would carry like a kind of like a backpack, but more like a purse. And she would carry two if she was married, like a single one and a double one, the double would indicate she was married. And so one of the women was not married, but the rest of them were. And so we said that. And then we said, oh, some of us wear these rings. And so we showed them, you know, like I have a diamond ring, showed them that. And so then that started the question "Who pays? Who buys the ring? Who pays for the ceremony? Do the men have to pay? What do they have to pay to get the bride?" So it came up with all these questions, because they're coming into puberty, they're going to find a bride to marry. And normally, they would have to save like 12 or 14 pigs in order to acquire a wife. So it came up with all these questions. So you know, and then they ask us questions. And you know, what we said, we live near Disneyland, they had no idea where Disneyland was. But it started this whole exchange. And then finally, you know, about an hour and a half into it, the rain stops, and we end up going back to the village. And our guide said, this will be the talk of the town for the rest of the month. Because normally, they don't find anything out about you, you know, you've come to find out about them. And the fact that you've exchanged this knowledge and all these wedding rituals, or, you know, how different they are in America versus here. And he goes, this will be great. You know, you've really made the day for this tribe. So that made you feel kind of good to know that there's been this exchange of information, you know, exchange of our cultures, not just us using and finding out about them, but them finding out a little bit about us, too. Yeah, I like that. So that was kind of a cool, cool trip. Lisa: What was the, your least favorite trip or like location you visited over the years? Wait, let me guess. Romania? Was that Anthony Bourdain I'm thinking of? Diane: Maybe you're thinking of Anthony Bourdain. Lisa: What was, what was? Diane: I don't know. I'm trying to think of what was negative. I feel like you don't really have any, except for falling out of the dock. Well, I was going to say I injured myself. I fell in a hole in Nosy Be, Madagascar, and scraped my entire body from my shoulder to my toes and had to go and get a booster shot from the, back in the cruise ship. And I was sore for a whole week after that. Plus, I couldn't wear any pants or anything because my whole leg was scraped. And so I had these palazzo pants that I bought to wear at night and I ended up wearing them for the next five days because they were the only thing that didn't rub against my leg, which was all scraped and bruised. Lisa: Oh, God. Didn't Dad fall down in Cuba or where did he fall down? Diane: He fell down in a salt mine. And I can't even remember what, they had said to you wear sneakers. They told you to wear sneakers or something that, you know, would be good for slippery situations. And he was wearing. Lisa: Crocs? Diane: He was wearing Crocs or he was wearing Birkenstocks, neither of which were appropriate. And so sure enough, when we went down into this mine, it was, there was a lot of water on the ground and sure enough, he slipped and fell. And the guy said, I told you to wear sneakers or, you know, the rest of us followed the instructions. But it was like, those are the only shoes he had. So that's what he wore. Lisa: I feel like that salt mine that me and Nicole went down in Bogota was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. It was freaky, but cool. That's where they filmed that movie with Antonio Banderas. Oh, yeah. When the Chilean miners got trapped, they still had filmed it at that location. Diane: Okay, that would be interesting. Lisa: It was beautiful, yeah. Diane: We went into a salt mine in Poland and it was beautiful and it had carvings and. Lisa: Oh, like, yeah, this one had a heart carving. Diane: Yeah, this one had kind of carvings and it was beautiful and it was not as dangerous as this other place. It's because there was a long walkway where you had to go down and that's where Gil slipped because it was, we were having to walk in a fairly steep, and then really the cave itself was really uninteresting, not as interesting as a salt mine that we've seen in Poland. Lisa: So, if you had to move out of the U.S., it was a requirement, let's say, I'm not going to say because someone got elected, but let's say you had to, it was a requirement. You had to live somewhere else, yeah. If you were outside of the U.S., where would you pick? Diane: Oh, I think I'd probably pick Paris. Okay, so you'd pick France. I think France would be an easy place to move to and I think you could live in a variety of different places there. England is also, would also be, you know, obviously my second choice. So you don't have to. Because you don't have to learn to speak another language. Lisa: What about Scotland? Diane: Too cold. Too dreary. Too dreary. Lisa: All right, let's change... Diane: Oh, what about the movies? I thought we were going to do movies. Oh, you're directing this thing, sorry. Lisa: Before the movies, well, okay, we can get to the movies. So, Mom, we all know you're obsessed with the movie The Muse by Albert Brooks. So please tell us why you love this movie so much. Diane: I think it's because no one's ever heard of it. It's part of it. But also the fact that it makes fun of movies. In other words, the muse, she's this obviously crazy person, but all these people seek her out for her advice on what to make for the next movie. And, you know, all these people come to her for advice. And Albert Brooks is the one that comes to her. And, you know, he wants to know. And she gives them these different ideas. And then at the end, we find out that she's just a crazy person. And she's escaped from an insane asylum. Lisa: It's kind of like Being There. Diane: It's kind of like she's a total fake. But because these people believe and need this person to help them, they accept her advice. LIsa: Interesting. Diane: And so I think that's, like I said, it's kind of a joke in which they're mocking out famous people in the movies and what happens to them. Lisa: You know, I haven't seen that movie, in forever or a long time ago, but that movie is considered a satire of Hollywood? Diane: Yeah. Lisa: Okay, I need to rewatch it for sure. Diane: I think because it's the guy from the Titanic. He's the one that comes to go to the advice. Lisa: Yeah. Diane: And he goes, shall I go with water? And she goes, well, I told him water. And she goes, well, it worked out fairly well for him. Lisa: Oh, my God. Okay. So what is your favorite book or what's a book that you really loved? Diane: I think one of the books that made an impression on me, and I'm not sure that I really related to the people in it necessarily, but Barbara Kingsolver is an author that I liked her short stories and some of her short editions. And it's interesting. The book of hers that I like the most is the Poisonwood Bible and it basically follows her life, it's somewhat, I'm sure she took some poetic license with it. She and her family go to Africa. Her father's a minister. Lisa: He's a missionary? Diane: He's a missionary. And they go there to help the natives, you know, to bring Christianity. And it's the oldest daughter that I can relate to and there's one thing where when she arrives in the airport and she remembers, all she can think of is an ad for Secret, which is a deodorant and the ad in Secret is, I use Secret, don't you wish others did? And that was her first thought was why aren't these people using Secret? Because, you know, obviously to her they stink. Lisa: She's a teenager, right? Diane: Yeah, she's like a teenager. And the other, she had written a book before that in which, and I'm going blank on the name of it now, but I was reading Lisa: Animal Dreams? Diane: Maybe it is Animal Dreams. Anyways, I was reading that book and it's about this woman who's kind of a, I don't want to say hippie, but she's kind of an alternative person and she's going to visit her dad because he needs help. He's starting to lose it. And as I'm reading the book, I'm actually going to North Carolina to just help his new wife figure out what to do with him, whether he needs to be in a place or... Lisa: Your dad. Diane: My own dad. So, I think I was just finishing it and, you know, it has a very sad ending, but she ends up going and taking care of her dad, and as I'm finishing it in the plane, obviously I'm getting very emotional. I'm getting emotional talking about it. The man next to me said "Wow, that must be a really good book " because he sees that I'm emotional. I said, "Oh, it's because it's this young woman who's going to make some decisions for her dad about taking care of him and that's what I'm doing. Lisa: Yeah. Diane: So, I think she is a good author. Lisa: You know, that book Diane: However, I read two of her other books, which I thought were horrible, but definitely she has a way of getting through to me. Lisa: Poisonwood Bible, it's not pre-internet that was written, but I remember being at work and I couldn't wait to go home to read it. And I can't remember a book since then. Okay, so I don't read a lot. You and Nicole read voraciously. I'm just not a reader. I have attention span issues. But where I felt that strongly in that book, it was just so good with the way that they intertwined each chapter with each character and what they were going through and that book was really amazing. And you know what's interesting is that they didn't make it into a movie. Diane: I know. Lisa: Because, you know, if they made it into a movie, it would have never been as good as the book. And you know that. Diane: Well, not only that, but Lisa: I... I'm kind of glad they didn't. Diane: I think there's also an element of anti-Christianity or anti-religion and while Hollywood is not exactly the epitome of Christianity, I think it would not have been received as well for that reason. Lisa:Maybe not. Diane: I mean, it's not blatantly anti-Christian, but it's definitely questioning, you know, this minister and what is he doing for Africa and why is he there. and is he really helping the people? I think it asks that question. It doesn't really answer it, but it definitely asks that question. Lisa: But I think that that's why I loved it because it was how you're just one person, but you're affecting all of these other people's lives who are each chapter and then I think there was a moment towards the end where he questioned what he was doing and if it was right. And, you know, as an anthropology student myself who studied anthropology, even though I think anthropology, even the word is not acceptable anymore because it has man in it. But we were – well, anthropology students were always sort of like taught like missionaries are bad. They're going in to change people whereas anthropologists are just going in to study the 'other'. Diane: Right, right. They're observers rather than converters. Lisa: Yeah, they're observers. So they wanted to learn about culture and this and that. So on that note, can you think of a movie that you've seen that was just as good as a book or that you felt really honored the book? Diane: Well, actually, when we talked about it before, I felt that oftentimes when you see the movie, you're disappointed because you got caught up in the book. But one of the books that I felt was enhanced or made better by the movie was Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut and it's about World War II in which this misfit, he has these delusions where he blacks out and he goes – he imagines himself in Tralfamadore, which is a place, a planet somewhere else and then he keeps getting sucked back into actually being at war. And it's the bombing of Dresden during World War II. And in the movie, the guy that plays him is a total unknown. I've never seen him in another movie. So you come off with no prejudice as to what he's like or what he's going to be like. And we imagine him. We don't have to imagine him going to Tralfamadore. We can see him. It's like a planet. And here it's this round globe. And here's this person who's basically a prostitute. And he goes and gets comfort from her. And then you can see him. He's dressed funny. His uniform doesn't match. And so it actually enhances how – you wonder how to imagine this when you're reading the book. But when you see the movie, you're like someone has used their imagination and come up with what they would imagine. And so when you finish with the movie, you're like, wow, that really affected me and affected me even more than the book because you were able to imagine, you didn't have to imagine, you got to see what his fantasies were like. So I guess that's one of the books that's – because the movie Chocolat, which is, you know, obviously a religious book as well. In the book, it's the priest who's the person who is against her bringing chocolate and bringing, you know, these pleasures to this town. Lisa: Oh, with Johnny Depp. Diane: And instead, you know, Johnny Depp is the character. And instead of being the priest, it's the mayor. Well, I'm sorry, that just changes the whole entire emphasis. A mayor is an elected person. A priest is a man of God. It just totally changes the whole entire thing. Plus, we have to have a big romance because we've got Johnny Depp. And so I was like, okay, now that was a movie they destroyed. Lisa: I feel like they Diane: I mean, maybe it means it's watchable for those who hadn't read the book. Lisa: Well, yeah. Diane: But it ruined it for any of us who read the book first. Lisa: I feel like when you're reading a book, you always develop a visual image of a character. Yes. Even if they're not described as having a certain hair color or whatever. And when you see them, you're like that's so not what I pictured. Diane: I know Lisa: It's kind of like at work when I – at workplaces I've had where I develop a phone relationship with someone. You know, like before the internet where you just look someone up and you can see them. But before you couldn't do that, you have this total image of this person you've been talking to for a year. And then you're like, that's not what I pictured. It doesn't mean anything. It's just like Diane: No, well, just like the Slaughterhouse Five, the character who plays – the person who plays the main character. You've never seen him before, and I don't think you've ever seen him since but he does a really great job and so you don't have that preconceived notion. You're just like, yeah, he is that person. Lisa: It's weird. This conversation is making me realize. I always thought you were an Anglophile, but it seems like you're a Francophile because you want to live in Paris. It's your favorite city, and you used to be obsessed with Gerard Depardieu to the point where Dad one time claimed he was jealous of him, so I've learned some things during this chat that I didn't know. And you studied French in college, right? Diane: For a year. For a year. Lisa: So you probably don't remember a lot. Diane: No, I don't. I joked that I said I could probably read a French menu and maybe read some fairy tales, some childhood fairy tales. And that's about it. I definitely never learned to speak it. Lisa: Okay, so here's a pivot. Diane: Okay Lisa: What do you think is the most – it could be either the greatest or just the most influential negative or positive invention during your lifetime? Diane: Well, I think I definitely have to say the phone. And I'd say that in an evolving sense. And you may find it hard to believe, but, of course, I worked for the telephone company. So obviously the telephone company was important. But when I worked for the telephone company, I was, you know, like a junior executive. One of the jobs that we had to do was, you know, obviously I worked in Buffalo, which was the big city. But there was a little town called Salamanca, which is kind of closer to Pennsylvania in the country, and Salamanca went basically automated. So the people who lived in Salamanca would pick up their phone and say, "Hi, Dorothy, would you get me Sally down the street or would you get me, you know, so-and-so gas station? "And when I worked at the telephone company in 1964, we cut them over to an automated system, so we went down to Salamanca and we met in the libraries. We met in different public facilities. And we explained to them what was going to happen, that they were going to pick up the phone and there would be a sound, a dial tone, and they would have to dial the number. Lisa: Oh my god Diane: So there would be a book, and the book would have the people's names and all the different places, and it would have a number, and they would have to dial that number. It was a seven-digit number. And there would be no operator. They'd have to figure out, you know, who they wanted to call. And if you dialed zero for operator, because that was obviously still available, the operator would not be in Salamanca. So she would not have any information. She would not know the name of your favorite gas station on the corner or, you know, your neighbor who lived down the street. She would be in Buffalo. So she would have no idea even where Salamanca was, let alone be able to help you. So if you needed information, you'd have to say, "I need the number of Grace O'Neill, who lives on so-and-so", and then she could look that up for you. She could look that up, the Salamanca number nut you'd have to explain to her what you wanted. And these people just had all kinds of questions. Lisa: Wait, that was 1964? Yes. When was that then? When was Mad Men: When was that show filmed? Diane: I'm not sure when that was. I think that was maybe the 60s, but I wouldn't be aware to it. But anyway, this was in the 60s. And so to think that phones went from that, you know, that was during my lifetime. Lisa: To sleeping with them in your bed. Diane: To have a phone where you can do, you know, all kinds of search and go to Google and have an exact library as your resource or be able to take pictures with it. It's just amazing that that much could happen between 1960s and the year 2000, or 2010 maybe. I moved to Santa Barbara in 2014, and those phones in 2014 could take pictures and could get on google, could do on the internet. Lisa: Yeah Diane: So that wasn't that long a period to have a tremendous change. And, in fact, when I worked at the Telephone Company in the 60s, there were people who had car phones. Car phones were first coming in. And I remember calling a couple people because they were complaining about their car phones. I mean, I don't know why it was referred to us since we knew nothing about it, but we had to go out and talk to some people and explain to them why they were having problems or helping try to resolve what their problems were. And I remember thinking, oh, this is never going to work. You know, a phone in your car? I remember. And so, later, you're like, oh, my God, you know, things definitely evolved from there. Lisa: I feel like I picture someone driving and having the phone, like Wendy's dad had a phone in his car. That was the first phone I saw in that blue Mercedes. And I was like, what in the hell? Remember those giant phones? Diane: Oh, yeah, they were huge, yeah. Lisa: That's funny. Well, okay, so what do you – I'm not supposed – this is questions for you, but my least favorite invention of all time, I would have to say, although this could just be an emotional feeling about it, is assault weapons. But what would you say is one of your least favorite inventions? Diane: Well, clearly that's – assault weapons. I mean, obviously they invented machine guns before that. Lisa: Like, why do they need to exist? Diane: But, you know, they invented machine guns, and then people said, wait a minute, these kill a lot of people, we need to do away with them. And so they almost immediately passed laws, you know, telling that you couldn't have machine guns. But yet assault weapons came into use, and people are dying with them, and people are like, well, you know, hey, you know, we have the right to have a weapon. Well, you don't have a right to have a machine gun or a Gatling gun or something. I don't quite understand why the sensibilities of the majority of people, you know, don't override the desire of certain people to have a lethal weapon, you know, by their side. Yeah, it's not a good weapon. Of course, you know, the atomic bomb, having just watched Oppenheimer recently, you know, I think probably nuclear weapons would be something that we don't really need. Lisa: Yeah, that's true. Diane: I mean, we need them, but, you know, they thought we needed them, but we've actually never used them except in Japan. And that was 1945. We haven't really used them since then. They're just sort of there as kind of some mean thing that we can do. We can destroy the earth if we want to. So I think that probably would be the number one, since they could destroy the earth and the world as we know it. Lisa: What do you think about the parents who were recently found guilty, responsible, I think it was manslaughter for the child who shot up some kids. What do you think about that? Do you think they're responsible? Diane: I think not all parents would be responsible, but I think from what I heard about the trial or what information I've gathered, that those parents were in some way responsible in that they bought the child this gun, knowing he was maybe not an adult, not a responsible person and I have to admit, if I was on that jury, I might have found them guilty as well. Lisa: I think they were made an example of, but I also think the kid had drawn on his math homework a photo, I'm going to shoot, I'm going to do this, that's what I'm doing, and the school did not send him home so I don't know if he should be, I feel like the school is kind of equally culpable in some way, not equally, but also they didn't send him home, and his parents came and they had a discussion, and the boy was not sent home by the parents. Diane: Well, actually, they suggested he go home. The thing that I think was irresponsible was why the mother didn't think that perhaps maybe the child had the gun. Lisa: Because she wanted him to kill himself because she was sick of him. Diane: I don't know. Lisa: That's dark, but I don't know. Lisa: It would be dark. I have had that thought because she had just had some new lover. Okay, that was a tangent. Okay, so next question, which I don't know if you have, if you are going to have an answer to, who is someone you admire? Diane: Well, it's interesting when we were talking about interests, one of the things that I got involved in in AAUW, March is supposed to be Women's History Month, and so my AAUW group, we took on the persona of different women in history, and the two that I took on, you know, were interesting, but I don't think influenced me. But two of the people who other people took on, one was Eleanor Roosevelt, and so I was quite interested in her and what she did with her husband, with Franklin. And the other one was Margaret Mead, and it was interesting because a lot of times we would talk to students, fourth and fifth grade students, and a lot of times the teachers wouldn't know who these women were, which was really depressing. Lisa: Oh, God. Diane: And one of them was Margaret Mead, and she was one that the teachers would go, I've never heard of her. Lisa: Elementary school teachers? Diane: These are elementary school teachers, but still, and they also didn't know who Georgia O'Keeffe was, which really totally freaked me out. Lisa: That's more disturbing. Diane: But anyways, I think Margaret Mead was someone that I admired. She was the adventuresome person that I'm not, but obviously I'm interested in cultures and so when I read about her and read some books about her, I would say that she and Eleanor Roosevelt, even though they were totally different women, were two people that I admired in history, and enhanced by the fact that we went out and talked to these kids about these two women. Lisa: Coincidentally, for some reason, this quote came up on my Instagram last night, excuse me, from Eleanor Roosevelt. "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent"-Eleanor Roosevelt. Sorry, I have a frog in my throat. That's a quote to discuss. What do you think of that quote? Diane: Well, I think it's true. One of the reasons the person who – we had several people who ended up doing Eleanor Roosevelt, and one of the people who did her the best, she would start off her presentation by saying "My name is Eleanor Roosevelt. Lots of people think I have a weird voice" and she would talk about how she goes, "Oh, you're so lucky. You have students that you can play with and talk to. When I was a child, I had a tutor." Lisa: See, that's more – that sounds more like Julia Child. Diane: But anyways, she would go on and she goes, "Okay, now I told you I'm playing Eleanor Roosevelt" So she goes, "I'd like to lose that voice and talk to you in my voice." But she would talk about how Eleanor was not a fairly – was not a terribly attractive woman and I think that was true but she didn't judge other people on how they looked either and I always thought that was an interesting trait about her and that she longed to be with other people because she was – she had a private tutor. And so she only – she had no class. She had no one to knock her ideas off of and so I always thought that was kind of an interesting thing because the kids, you know, responded to that because, you know, it's like, oh, you're lucky. You have a classroom and you have kids to talk to and be friends with. So I like that. But Eleanor was not a terribly attractive person. And I think that that affected her perception of herself more to judge her on what she could do and what she could accomplish. And it was interesting. We went to her home in Arcadia in Maine, and we did a little tour of this house, and we looked at the kitchen. And someone said, oh, :did Eleanor ever cook in this kitchen? " because, you know, and the guide said, Eleanor was not a cook. She goes, she probably never made a dish in her life. Lisa: So wasn't she from the upper class? Diane: Yes, because she was from a wealthy family. And so it was interesting. And a couple of people on the tour said, "So she never cooked or did any of that?" And she's like, no. You know, and so she certainly didn't, you know, this was like their summer home. But, you know, even in the summer home they had, you know, five or six different servants who did everything. Lisa: She had more important things to do, like start the U.N. Diane: Right. But it was interesting because, you know, coming from a wealthy family like that, it's something that you don't think about. You know, you don't think about it from your perspective of your life because you obviously are very caught up in all the things you have to do, take your kids, make your meals, clean the house. She didn't have to do any of that. So I remember thinking, oh, that was definitely, that gave her a lot more time to do other stuff. Lisa: I mean, it was very unusual for someone not to be a parent or a mother at that time. Diane: Well, she was a mother, but she had children. Lisa: Oh, sorry. She did have children. Diane: She had children, but she didn't have to basically take care of them. Diane: She didn't have to do the work. Diane: No, she didn't have to do any work. She came from a wealthy. And, in fact, he was actually her cousin. They weren't, I don't know whether they were first cousins or second cousins. But she didn't change her name. Her name was Eleanor Roosevelt when she was born. And that was her name when she married. Lisa: But wasn't there, didn't you have something where you were trying to talk to people about her and they had claimed that she was no longer a feminist, that the tides had shifted about thoughts about her, right? Didn't you ask someone to talk about her and they said, "Oh, I don't do Eleanor Roosevelt." Wasn't there some shift? Diane: I don't know. If there was, I don't know. But she was definitely one of the people that we portrayed in Women in History. And, like I said, we did Georgia O'Keeffe. That was someone that I, my friend Eva Tanonis had done her and then I also did her. And then I also did Sally Ride and that was one of the more fun characters that I did and I had a jumpsuit that I'd gotten from Cape Canaveral and I would pretend that we were going to go up in space. We'd do a little thing where we'd go up in space and talk about what it was like. And, interestingly enough, I would get more questions from the boys. You know, we'd do a mixed audience so the boys would ask the somewhat more technical questions or how did this work and I said I thought that was kind of interesting. And occasionally the boys would say, this was an often asked question, "How come there's only women here? How come you're only talking about famous women?" Lisa: They said that? Diane: And we said because this is March's Women's History Month. And so we're only talking about famous women. And then somebody in our group would always say "Yeah, well, they can talk about the men the other 11 months. " Lisa: Really? The little boys asked that? Diane: Yeah. Lisa: Oh, wow. Diane: I mean, they didn't understand the concept that March was Women's History Month. Lisa: Welcome to the other side. Welcome to our lives. Diane: But I was always interested that I got, someone goes, you get all the boy questions. And I said, well, that's because we're going in space. Lisa: Yeah. I guess that's more relatable. I mean, less controversial like being an astronaut. Would you say that Georgia O'Keeffe is one of your favorite artists? Who's your favorite artist, if you had to pick one? Diane: I don't know. I don't think I have a famous artist. Lisa: Or a favorite. Diane: But I don't think she would be one. I just picked her because I thought she was interesting. Lisa: I like her life story and her narrative. She's such a trailblazer. Diane: Well, one of the things about this Women in History that I really liked, I mean, this was a concept that was obviously brought up by AAUW, was what these people were like as young, what they were like as youth growing up. Lisa:Yeah. Diane: And that's why the thing with Eleanor Roosevelt, you know, the fact that she was tutored and didn't have class. And Georgia O'Keeffe grew up in a farm community, fairly sheltered, always felt different. And she had dolls that she would play with and talk. And so the whole idea was, you know, you see this person grown up and they're becoming famous, but what were they like as a child? What were they thinking about? What were some interests that they had? So it was the idea that the kids could connect to. And the same with Sally Ride. I mean, she loved to play tennis. She was a tennis player. She never thought she could be an astronaut because astronauts were men. And it wasn't until she was in college that all of a sudden something opened up and she saw an article at college asking for women, for people to apply as astronauts and the women, that was the first time women were able to submit an application and so it occurred to her, oh, an astronaut. That was not something I ever wanted to be because I didn't know you could be that, so I thought that was an interesting part of the women in history. It wasn't just famous women, but how did they – what were they like before they were famous? Lisa: Okay, segue. What is your alter ego doing now? Diane: I don't know. I don't know what – I'm not sure of that concept of alter ego. Lisa: It doesn't have to be some secret life– I mean, I think that the fact that you don't have an answer means a lot. It means that you don't have a secret longing for some secret life that you've never lived or something. Diane: Well, sometimes I think when I was a teenager, maybe I would imagine some – when I went away to Harper College, there were a lot of New Yorkers, and New Yorkers all went to camp in the summer, and that's when folk singing was first coming in and so I remember thinking, oh, if I could only sing. So my – it was like, oh, and I remember humming in the car or somewhere, walking, humming and thinking, oh, I'm going to be a folk singer somewhere, some kind of alternate person that was unlike me. And then I remember laughing and thinking, I can never be a folk singer because I have a horrible voice. It's like I need to be realistic. But like some other – just changed my life a little tiny bit to become that folk singer. And it was interesting because my roommate and I, we were from upstate New York where you didn't go to camp in the summer because you lived in the country as it was. And so these New Yorkers who were sent out of the city to the country for the summer, it was like Lisa: That's also very Jewish tradition to send your kids off to summer school. Diane: Well, definitely, yes. They didn't send their kids off. Well, Harper College was a very pretty Jewish college. Yeah. But it was just like, oh, and I remember my roommate and I saying, we don't know the – we can't sing the lyrics to these songs because we've never heard them before. It was like that was a big year of learning because they weren't the folk songs that were recorded nationally. They were just things that they had learned at summer camp. Lisa: I always remember you singing to us when we were kids. They're fond memories. Diane: Well, I like singing, but I know Lisa: So does Nicole. She likes to sing. Diane: I don't have a great voice. Lisa: Well, I mean, you don't have to. What would you tell your grandchildren is the most important thing in life? Diane: I guess it's to be kind to people, to be – not to be mean, to be kind and accepting of other people. Lisa: That's a good answer. On to your move to Santa Barbara from El Cajon. Diane: Yes Lisa: Did you have a hard time making that decision? Diane: I don't think so hard making the decision, and it's interesting. One of the times when I went – when I went back to San Diego and stayed with a friend of mine, I was struck by how busy or how – Lisa: Traffic? Diane: Traffic-wise and just was like, wow. When I lived there, I remember Gil complaining "Traffic's getting really bad. I hate this. I can't believe you're going down to Balboa Park and doing volunteer work." Lisa: It got a lot worse Diane: It was like I didn't – it didn't seem like that was a problem. It wasn't like living in L.A. where there's horrible traffic. But after moving to Santa Barbara and being here for several years and then going back to San Diego, I remember thinking, oh, my God, there is a lot of traffic. And it seemed like the streets were wider. There were four or five lanes, which in Santa Barbara, we go from two to three lanes, never any more than that, and thinking that was a good decision. We were getting old and, you know, it's better to be in a smaller town. And, you know, when you go to the shopping mall, you know, you can park right there next to CVS. You know, you don't have to park, you know, three distances away from it. And just the traffic alone, I mean, if there's traffic in Santa Barbara, it's like maybe five minutes, ten minutes max. And so, in that sense, in terms of size and getting older and, you know, more feeble, I think it was really a good decision. Plus I feel that, you know, I got to be a part of our grandkids' lives, which we couldn't have by just coming every three months or every four months or every five months, you know, picking Trevor up from school. You know, can I take two of my friends home? Sure. So that's the kind of thing. And their other grandparents, Mary Katz, she said, you know, I can see that you're so much closer to the kids because, you know, you get to see them on a daily basis and you get to do things. You know they're friends when they talk about a friend. You know who their friend is. So I think that it was a good decision. In some ways, you know, I missed my friends. You know, my friends from San Diego, you live in a place for 43 years, you have a lot of friends. But, you know, we've made enough that I feel, you know, we've adapted. And we have, "downsized"in the sense of our life is simpler and easier, and we achieved that goal of being closer to the grandkids. So. Lisa: I agree. I think that's why I have such strong opinions about people who have kids really late in life, like let's say, like, you're 70 and you marry a, well, okay, let's say you're 60, and you marry, like, a 38-year-old and she has a child. You know, like, oh, I'm sort of like. Diane: Do I want to start that all over again? Lisa: Yeah. Like their grandparents. Yeah, or just, I don't know. So anyway, I think it's, like, better to have lots of people who love you, the more the better, that are, like, more removed as your parents. Diane: Right. Lisa: It's a different kind of love. Diane: Yeah. Lisa: And also watching you with the kids, it's, like, two layers removed from parents, but I honestly don't know. Nicole really depended on you to do the kind of tough love, well, disciplinary stuff that maybe she's not good at. So it's just good to have a lot of people on deck, you know, with kids. Diane: You know, the only, and, I mean, this is maybe, so you don't know if that was a thing, but Nicole and Jared were having some problems, you know, when we moved here and I remember us saying, you know, "If you don't want us to move here, please let us know. " In other words, if this is going to be a problem or you have, you know, you're thinking negative thoughts, let us know. But I could see that somehow us moving here maybe gave them permission to get the divorce. And, of course, that's just speculation. You know, you don't know if things would have been different if we'd stayed in San Diego. But I think it kind of gave them permission in the sense that, oh, well, there will be other people around. You know, there's not just, they won't be dependent, children won't be dependent on us. Like I said, I think it's a what if. But it did happen, you know, within two years of our moving here. So, you know, you have to think some cause and effect a little tiny bit. Lisa: I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't know what Nicole would say but I think Jared really still values you guys so much. Diane: Well, and, you know, the fact that he's invited us there two years in a row for Thanksgiving or, you know, we've gone out with him is, you know, it's kind of nice to know that we're still attached to him, even though he's not attached to Nicole anymore. Lisa: What do you regret most about your life? Diane: I'm not sure about that. I can't think of any one particular thing. I mean, I went to three different colleges and so, you know, some of my regret might be about, you know, maybe making those, not making those decisions or making those decisions. And oftentimes I think, well, you know, should I have let Gil take me to California away from my family? But, you know, you don't know. Those are questions that you don't know the answer to. You don't know what would have happened. You know, should I have stayed at that first college and made a go of it? Or, you know, should I have said, "No, I'm not moving to California. My family is more important to me. " You don't know. You didn't make that decision, so you don't know what would have happened. But those are some of the things that I wonder about. Lisa: Yeah, I hear that. Do you think that money buys happiness? Diane: I don't know if it buys happiness, but it's certainly easier to be happy if you have some money. I don't think being rich makes you happy, but I think being poor, it's harder to be happy when you, you know, worry about where the next meal is coming from or if you can't afford a house or you can't afford to do anything or can't afford to do fun things. I'd rather have a little more money than not enough. But I've always thought there was kind of a little tier. In other words, if you have this much, you can be happy. If you get this much more, I don't think you're any happier. So I think as long as you can meet your needs. As long as you can live comfortably. And I grew up in a household where we didn't have a lot of money, so, but we were happy. But we had enough to, you know, we had a place to live, and we had meals on the table, you know, somehow. I wrote in my little thing that somehow we found the money for piano lessons or braces or a dress to go to the prom or money to go to college. But, you know, if we hadn't had that, I have cousins whose parents did not have that. They didn't have – they didn't take vacations. They didn't get to go to college. They maybe didn't get the braces. They didn't get the prom dresses. They were deprived of those things and I think their lives were not as happy as mine. So I have to think that having some money definitely helps buy happiness. Lisa: What is your favorite food? Diane: It has to be potatoes. I mean Gil's always teased me about that. Lisa: Mashed potatoes? Diane: Mashed potatoes or potato chips. Lisa: They're Polish genes, Mom. Diane: Scalloped potatoes, I mean. Lisa: Pierogies? Diane: Pierogies, you know. Lisa: You're making me hungry. Diane: So, you know, I have to, you know, the Polish genes win out. Lisa: French fries? Diane: French fries, yeah, definitely. I've hardly met a potato I didn't like, so. Lisa: Scalloped potatoes. Diane: And also potatoes are – it's interesting. My aunt, who definitely had financial woes, she made a lot of potatoes and when you go to Europe and you see how many people are eating potatoes, you're thinking, yes, potatoes feed a lot of people and pretty reasonably. Lisa: There's just something about boiling some potatoes in water, adding salt and butter, and you're like, this is the most delicious thing ever. Why is it so good? Diane: And it's so easy Lisa: It costs a dollar to buy a potato. Diane: When we were in Poland, Dad made fun of me because we were there in October, November, so obviously they had harvested the potatoes. And you'd see these people bringing in these giant – they looked like, you know, 100 or 200 pound bags of potatoes and they'd be pulling them in from the fields into their, you know, kitchens or into a storage space or something and, you know, he made fun of me, and I said, "Are you kidding? I said, you know, I'm sorry, Ireland, England, you know, a lot of places in the world, they're pulling in their bags of potatoes. It's not just Poland. Lisa: Year. All right. We're going to do two more questions, and we'll close it out. If you had – this is kind of a cheesy question, but if you wanted to have anyone over for dinner from history, like that you could invite over, you know, to be like Anne Boleyn or whatever, like who would it be? Diane: Gee, I have no idea whatsoever. Lisa: Jim Morrison? Want some clues? Diane: No, I don't have the desire to see him. Lisa: Okay. Diane: Would not be any musician that I could think of. Lisa: Okay, well, so on a piggyback, who has always been your celebrity crush? Diane: I don't Lisa: Paul Newman, though. Diane: I liked Paul Newman, but definitely not a celebrity crush. Lisa: No? Diane: When I was a teenager, Tab Hunter, you know, that was a big heartthrob of my turn Lisa: Was he gay? Diane: Which, you know, found out later he was gay. That was a big disappointment. But I think in that genre, you know, that person who looked like that was, obviously, Rebel Without a Cause, you know, didn't make it past being a teenager. Lisa: James Dean Diane: James Dean, yeah, and then Robert Redford, which, you know, now he's an old guy like I am. But, you know, I think that skinny, that, you know, kind of tall, made me a little, what do I want to say, you know, not totally sophisticated, Lisa: Rugged? Diane: But a little more rebellious or something. I guess I have always been a sucker for that kind of – and interestingly enough, when I first met Dad, your dad, and I remember thinking I think I was a sucker for this story. He told me this story about how when he was a baby, he had this pyloric stenosis where he couldn't keep down the milk, and he was hungry, and he was always hungry for the milk or something that somehow mother represented he had this hunger. And one of the persons that I'd had a crush on before that, his mother had died having him, and so his father, you know, had always held it against him that somehow he had killed his wife. So I guess I was always a sucker for that, oh, I need someone to love, or, you know, something's been disappointed in my life, and I need someone to hold on to to offer me this love that I missed in the past. So somehow his mother couldn't give him the love he needed, so he was looking for that for me, just like this guy was looking, you know, he never had a mother to love because his mother died having him. So I was always a sucker for that kind of story. LIsa: Hmm. But you only had one, but were the boys you dated before dad, did they have similar sob stories that you felt they needed you? Diane: Yes. Lisa: Okay. Diane: One of the other guys, he was adopted, and he felt that his adopted mother never loved him as much as she should have, and that his real mother had abandoned him. Lisa: Hmmm Diane: So that was kind of interesting, you know, that that was a theme that other young men had told me that I guess I was a sucker for. Lisa: I never knew that. I mean, I never knew that that was what you were attracted, well, not attracted to, but subconsciously attracted to. Diane: Yeah. Lisa: I thought you were attracted to that he was smart in class. Diane: Well, smart. Lisa: And that maybe he was a nerd, so you could be like, I'm the cute, popular girl and Diane: No Lisa: No? Diane: No, but being smart was, you know, being smart. I remember thinking, you know, other people liked someone, and I'm like, but they're dumb. You know, why would you like someone dumb? Or, you know, you'd meet someone, you'd see someone at a party or something, and you'd think, oh, that guy looks really cool and then you'd have a conversation with them in which you'd say something totally stupid, and you'd go, okay, scratch that guy. Lisa: But don't you think Dad's intellect and or sort of whatever would be considered sort of a darkness in a way or like a sort of loner-ness, that you were attracted to that, that he was a little bit. Diane: I don't think that was it. Lisa: What? You were attracted to the milk story? Diane: I think, you know, the story that Lisa: That he he needed you? Diane: Yeah, that he needed me. That he hadn't gotten this love somehow from his family and that he never felt terribly close to his mother. And so, you know, she couldn't nurse him, so somehow he needed some connection with the feminine side or something. Lisa: What do you think a therapist would say? Diane: I have no idea. I mean, he went through therapy during his residency, and the main issues he dealt with were father issues. Lisa: Yeah Diane: I mean, typical, you know, his dad returned when he was six years old or five years old, and he'd had his mother, you know, to himself most of that time, and all of a sudden the father came home and, you know, talk about Oedipal complex. It's like your father came home and stole your mother from you. Lisa: Pretty much Diane: So I think that was what he dealt with mainly in his therapy, and also he had a lot of trouble being very rebellious with authority figures. He almost flunked out of medical school because he just was not good at taking advice. Lisa: I feel like that never changed. Diane: But he had a supervisor during his therapy sessions that he really liked, and that was the first authority figure that he could relate to, sort of became a substitute father figure, I guess. Lisa: Yeah. Diane: And from that point on, it was easier for him to accept authority. But, you know, he went into private practice by himself because of this thing with authority figures. Lisa: But do you think him becoming a doctor was to subconsciously make his dad proud because his dad was also a doctor, or was it just that he bonded with a psychiatrist and said, oh, I can do this. Diane: I think he bonded more with a psychiatrist, but probably too the fact that he became a doctor. In other words, being a doctor Lisa: So you have to be proud of your son if he's a doctor, even though they never said it. Diane: Yeah. No. Even though, yeah, I think you followed your dad and became a doctor. And also, interestingly enough, you know, the other Green boys, you know, one became a doctor and two of them have Ph.D.s and are Ph.D.s. Lisa: Nuclear physicist. Yeah. They're all very successful. Diane: Yeah. But they also are all in areas that you might say have something to do with psychiatry. Two are psychiatrists. One has a Ph.D. in psychology. One is a social worker. Four out of five being in what we call psychiatric fields is probably not coincidence. And the one who has a Ph.D. in physics, he very much connected with his college professor, who was his father of his life. So he made the connection, not necessarily with his dad, but with his, what, future wife's dad, who was head of the physics department. Lisa: I mean, but do you wonder, I feel like dad watches these, like, River Runs Through It movies and just really misses that he didn't have that connection with his dad. Do you think if he had had sons, he could have healed some of that trauma? Or do you think he would have been like an asshole dad? Diane: I don't think it would have. Lisa: Do you think that would have helped him? Diane: No, because he, I mean, he has nephews and young men Lisa: Well he had like Jared Diane: And he didn't really connect with them in any, I didn't see a sense, and he also, I didn't see him connecting with his brothers, who would, you know, he could have been a father figure to a brother who's 12 years younger than him. Lisa: He wants to be connected to his brothers, but he doesn't know how. I feel like a lot of the Green brothers, sons, like they don't know how to show love or connect with people, because it's something about the way they were raised. But anyway, this is going a little off topic. Diane: Yes, right, yes. Lisa: Maybe this is Volume 3, but. Diane: Right. Lisa: Okay. We need like a closing question. Diane: Oh, okay Lisa: What's a good closing question? I don't know, it's Mother's Day Diane: Yes Lisa: Do you want to say anything as a mother or to mothers? Are you disappointed that I'm not a mother? Do you care? Diane: No. I think that's your own decision. Lisa: I don't know. You can't really answer, like you're going to say yes. Diane: I mean, I obviously Lisa: Do you think I would be a good mother if I was one? Diane: I think you don't- Lisa: Do you think I am missing the mother gene? Diane: I think it's one of those Lisa: I kind of am Diane: No, but it's one of those things that you don't know what you can do until you have to do it. And I can remember wanting to be a mother and really looking forward to Nicole. I mean, Dad and I were married four years before we had children. So, obviously, it wasn't like, oh my God, I want to get pregnant immediately and have a child. So, by the time I was pregnant with Nicole, I was ready to become a mom. But I remember the first time she was sick for, I don't know, maybe three or four days in a row, and I never got to sleep at night. And I remember I put her to sleep, and I was walking down the stairs in this apartment and somehow some realization is like, oh my God, I'm a mom forever. You know, it's like. Yeah. Lisa: IAnd now your baby daughter is moving in with you. Diane: But it's like this sort of permanent thing. Like, you know, I can't just go to sleep and wake up and have it be, you know, it's not like babysitting where, oh, thank God I can leave and go home now and go to sleep and resume my normal life. It's like you're a mom forever. And so that kind of realization, and I've mentioned that to my sisters or to other people, and they go, oh, yeah, I remember that same kind of thing. Lisa: Panic. Is it panic? Diane: It's not panic, but just like the finality of it. It's like, oh, yeah, a mom is forever. Like it's not a part-time job. It's not like a job you can quit and move on to something else. It's like, you know, you're here forever. And so I remember that feeling and by the time you have your second child, you're like, you know, not a problem. You've already mentally figured that out. You know, if the child is sick for three days, you're like, yeah, we've done this. We've been here. You know, I understand the implications of this. So I think that kind of totality, and like I said, you know, you're the mom forever, no matter how old your child is. Lisa: But, I mean, technically, in Western society, only until they're 18. Diane: Well, theoretically. Lisa: We throw them off into the wild Diane: Right Lisa: But as we know in this family, that's not the case. We're like, whatever. We need. Diane: No, but I can Lisa: We're independent, but I am, but whatever. We need you probably. Well, I think all families are different. Diane: Yeah, all families are, but I think there's the connection that these are your children and when I talked to, you know, the Millmans, they were friends of ours. And Linda Millman, her mom died when she was young, and her dad ended up raising her and he was, for all intents and purposes, not a good dad. And when we were friends, she was totally estranged from her brother. She hadn't seen him for, you know, 10 or 12 years. And her dad had a, I don't think he remarried, but he had someone who took care of him and he decided that he needed someone to take care of him and even though Linda had had little contact with him probably for 12 or 14 years, he said, I need to be taken care of. And he moved to San Diego, and he moved into her guest room, or actually the room where her housekeeper lived. And she took care of him for maybe two years until he died and I remember thinking, oh, my God, I don't know whether I could do that. But, you know, that's the opposite connection between, you know, this is your dad forever. So even though he was a jerk and the brother wasn't going to take care of him, so Linda took on that responsibility. And he was a jerk. I mean, he was a jerk when he was dying and needed her. But that family connection is there, and I think that's the negative part of it. But I think with mine, it's the positive part. Like when my dad went into the nursing home, of course I would be there to take care of him Lisa: Because that's what women do. Diane: Well, not just what women do, but he was such a nice guy. Lisa: He was a really good man. I mean, he was one of a kind. Diane: Yeah, I mean, that's what my mother, that little thing, when they made Joe Rymar, they threw away the mold. You know, that was sort of the kind of silly thing. But it's true. It's like he seemed nicer than other people's dads or nicer than other people's husbands. Lisa: You got lucky. I mean, your parents were always so affectionate and cute with each other. Diane: Yeah Lisa: I really thought it was rare, but I didn't really have much to compare it to. I didn't know a lot of other people's grandparents but it did seem special. Diane: I thought too. In fact, when my mom died and my dad remarried, my sister Susan especially, totally freaked out. She's like, how could he fall in love with someone else? I'm like, well, our mom is dead. It's not like he's being a traitor to our mom, but she felt he was somewhat being a traitor. Lisa: I totally get that. He was a person who loved. Diane: Yeah and so he was loving with her because that's the kind of guy he was. And my mom was gone, and he was lonely and, you know, she was a nice, kind lady and not at all like our mom, but it's kind of weird. But it's interesting. When he came to California, David and I came to – my sister Susan and Maddie, his then wife, had all reached a decision that my dad needed to go somewhere else, that he needed to leave North Carolina and be with some of his children. And so we'd made the decision that I would bring him to California but we hadn't actually told him of that decision, but David and I flew to North Carolina, and we were going to be there a couple days, and we were going to talk to him about that and make sure he was in agreement. So we arrive at the airport. It's late at night. It's like 10 o'clock at night or something, and Maddie picks us up, the wife. And she goes, "Your dad wants to see you tonight. " We're like, oh, it's kind of late. Isn't he in bed already? And she goes, "No, he wants to see you." Anyway, so we stop at a senior facility, and he sees us, and he gives us a hug, and he said, "Did you come to take me to California?" And we said, "Yes, we did." And she goes, how did he know that? I said, well, obviously he figured it out. His two children from California are coming to Asheville. Lisa: At the same time Diane: And..but, you know, I said, "Well, I guess we're not going to have to discuss this", because we thought we were going to have to sit down and discuss this and make sure that he was in agreement. But it was like, yeah. And so as we're in the airport and we're leaving, I said to my dad, "You need to give Maddie a big hug and say something nice and endearing to her" and he goes, "Well, I'm glad to get out of here" and I'm like, well, "Don't say that." Lisa: Oh, my God. He said that? Diane: Yes. And so, anyway, so, you know, I don't know what he said to her, but he said something pleasant, you know, and she was in tears. And, you know, it was positive for her. I would call and talk to her, and she'd say, Oh, does your dad talk about me or, you know, mention, and not wanting to lie, I said, oh, you know, we have your albums of the trips that you two took together. And so we spent some time going through those, and he's telling me about the good adventures and fun times you had. And so, but really, you could say they were somewhat forced in that he's not really saying I miss Maddie or, you know, I wonder what she's doing. It was like he had kind of obliterated and forgotten her, you know, mixed her out of his life. But we did have the albums of the trips they took, and so that would be a way we would talk about her. So I felt I could say, yes, you know, your name does come up, and we talk about the trips you've taken, blah, blah, blah. Lisa: That's very gracious of you Diane: Because I didn't want her to feel that he totally wiped, you know, the ten or eight years they were together out of his memory Lisa: They were together 8 years? Diane: But the people at the nursing home, one of them would comment, a lot of people would say, "Oh, your husband really looks forward to seeing you" and the nurse, she goes, "I know, Diane, that freaks you out, that people think he's your husband." And she goes "You have to realize a lot of people have younger wives." And she said, "You're so nice to your dad, and you always give him a hug and kiss him when you come in. "And I said, "Well, I always remind him that I'm his oldest daughter" because I said I look a lot like my mom. And so I said, you know, maybe in his memory, the fact that he lights up when I come in the room, maybe he's thinking I'm my mom. So I said, you know, maybe a combination. You know, yes, I'm coming to visit him, but, you know, maybe I do remind him of, you know, our mother. Lisa: Yeah. Well, I think we're going to wrap up now. Diane: Okay. We covered a lot of topics here. Lisa: We did. There may or may not be a Volume 3, but we'll see. Diane: Well, maybe you could just move on to Volume 3 with someone else. Lisa: Well, no. I mean, Volume 3, a few questions with Diane Green. We'll see Diane: Well, maybe you could have a few questions with someone else. Lisa: Well, I will, but for now, be well. Take care, everyone out there. Be kind to yourselves.