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In this episode we discuss the topic of mental health and how it is often overlooked in the workplace due to societal stigma.
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In this episode we discuss the topic of mental health and how it is often overlooked in the workplace due to societal stigma.
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The Land Talk podcast is discussing the topic of mental health and how it is often overlooked in the workplace due to societal stigma. The hosts share their personal experiences with mental health, noting that it was not discussed in their families while growing up. However, one host had a different experience, as their mother recognized the importance of mental health and sought therapy for them at a young age. Okay, we are off and running with our next episode of the Land Talk. So today, we have with us. Ari. Amanda. Candace. Susan. Jess. Welcome back, Jess. Yay! And today, we are going to be talking about a topic that, in my opinion, doesn't get talked about enough around the workplace, especially, is mental health. So this is something that we have all kind of felt like everybody goes through, but nobody really talks about it because maybe it is looked upon as like there's a stigma on it, something like that. And so this is just going to be an open forum to really talk about how it affects our lives in and out of our personal lives, our work lives, the things that we have, the coping mechanisms that we go through, anything that we really want to talk about with that. So if anybody wants to get started, we can – this is the first question that I had about it was, was mental health something that was discussed in your families growing up? Because this, I feel like, is really what sets the stage for how we talk about it ourselves is kind of coming from, did you talk about it at home? No. Absolutely not. I mean, I'm old, and so my parents came of age during the 50s and 60s, and it was not discussed. Never. Well, we didn't really talk about anything personal. As I say, we're British. We don't discuss those things. Was it proper? No, it was not. Absolutely not proper. No. Wow. No. And, yeah, probably should have been. I have a personally very different experience, because my mom grew up in a very rough childhood. So versus the mental health that she needed to get when she was older, I also was very close to her. There's only a 20-year age difference between me and my parents. So, like, my parents are only in their early 50s. So for me, growing up, especially after anything – like, my mom put me in therapy, and I was like, oh, I'm going to do this. And I think about, say, for example, someone like my own sister, or I have other family members that would have definitely have benefited from therapy or understanding, like, for example, in the 60s and 70s, ADHD. It's not necessarily a mental health thing. It is. It is. It is. My brother. Textbook case. But that wasn't a thing then. So he was never diagnosed. But he absolutely did, absolutely did and does have ADD or ADHD. One of those two. So, yeah. When you were talking, and you are both much younger than I am, so it still persists. It's slower to change. The younger generation, though, in where I'm from, it's different. It's changing with the younger generation. And I credit, I will say I credit the internet. I credit social media for destigmatizing mental illness and needing therapy. Because, yes, same thing. If you went to a psychiatrist, you had to be really crazy. And you needed to be just locked up and put in, and I'm sorry to say, but this is what they called it, put in the madhouse. Oh, yeah. Those are terms that we've shown up with. Yeah, the funny farm. Yeah, there's all of that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And it is interesting to say, because you were saying, you know, if they say, look, you're putting all of your information on social media or whatever, that's like too much. But then you hear, you know, it actually could be what is helping destigmatize everything because you're seeing other people are having these same issues that you're like, oh, my goodness, I feel exactly that same way. And then it makes you feel a little bit more like, well, if they're talking about it, I can talk about it because I'm not the only one who is feeling like this. Because a lot of the times it can feel like that. Like you are alone in your whatever things that you're going through, when in fact it's far more common than what we're seeing, than what we're used to hearing people talk about. And the other thing that I was listening to you guys talk about, like you were saying, all three of you, your families are from different countries, or you're from different countries, had that same like, we don't talk about this, it's shameful, it's not good, we're not talking about it. And the two of us that were born, our families are from here, were the ones, you were already in therapy, had all of that going for you, and it was all well and good. And even though I wasn't aware of it, I was still brought up in the same way of that. It's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to have things that are not typical than somebody else, and it's okay to talk about that, and let's find a solution for it, rather than we're not going to talk about that, and it's a sign of weakness, or anything like that. So that's really interesting, because my sole experience is being here, and thinking that oh, how in the dark ages we are here, but in contrast, it really seems like I've had it a lot easier than what it is. For sure. So the next question that I had about this, besides how was that conversation growing up, so how do you think it's affected you from what your childhood was with those mentalities from your family, and how do you think that's affected how you interpret and think about mental health now for yourself in your upcoming generation here? Do you think that that's affected it in a certain way? As weird as this is going to sound, it actually, for a while, it made it harder for me to understand with people with mental health issues, because being as like, we talk about it, you deal with it, like I've had that support from the very beginning, that a lot of the mental health difficulties, like I didn't have anxiety growing up, or a lot of the things that I struggle with now as an adult, never as a teenager or anything, because I already had that built in support my parents were taking care of. So it's the idea of seeing it now as an adult without that parental support or that being there of the struggles of feeling alone and stuff like that. It's hard to relate to that, because I never felt like that. I never felt alone. I never had to, as much as my mother can get on my nerves as all moms can, I am very, very thankful for certain things that she did and understanding why she did them, but at the same time, it's like, well, why don't you just go to them? It took a really long time for me to understand that they don't know that's a possibility, that they can do that, because they were never taught that it's a possibility. So it's a way bigger step. So it's a way bigger step than for me just being like, well, no, I just booked an appointment, I'm going to go, versus someone who's like, we talk about people who don't like to make phone calls or anxiety or things like that. Sometimes just picking up that phone or even asking for a number or finding a number is so difficult for some people. And it took me a really, really long time to make that reference for people and just have a little bit more empathy for it, because I didn't understand. I was like, why don't you just do it? But I think as an adult, having that perception of like, now I have to do it myself and having the opportunity to interact with people that have those different backgrounds, because that is one thing. I do think it makes me well-adjusted and a very well-listener with the experience and things that I've had. I've been taught to listen to other people because people have listened to me, which makes it teaches me as I go every day. So let me ask you, though. So you said you did not feel anxiety as a child or a teen, but you do as an adult. So what changed to make that happen, if you don't mind me asking? I think part of it is just responsibility. And I think the, I mean, for me, the biggest change I've gone through in the last year is I've never been this separated from my family. Like, when I was a little girl, I didn't live with my parents. I lived with my grandmother. I never, like, it kind of brings me back to the bad parts of what I did go through as a child, which I have certain things I've got to deal with. But as an adult, like, you think you've dealt with everything, and then having my parents no longer here, like, helping my brother with things that he's going through. It was like, I am the sole person who takes care of everybody in my family. Like, roles have kind of switched as I've gotten older, where I take care of my mom, I take care of my dad, I take care of, so I think it's just like, the pressure. Like, the Acanthus song, Surface Pressure, I really feel sometimes. The Acanthus song, that people relate to that song. That idea of, like, the weight of the world for my family, just sometimes it's a lot. And I think I've learned, because I have gone back and I've talked to people and everything, of establishing boundaries of what I can and cannot take is probably one of the biggest things. Yeah. Yeah, you know, and having gone through, you know, the past few years of becoming the caregiver for, first my mom, then my dad. My dad and my sister. And now my aunt. Even though she's doing okay, the roles definitely switch, you know. And sadly, not to be a downer, but it doesn't get easier as your parents get older. It does not get easier. Do you think that how you were raised and brought up and how you didn't talk about this and talk about mental health and anything like that, how do you think that that's affected how you're handling it now? Oh, I don't talk about, I mean, I might share with you guys. And that's the most I've ever done. I always kept things inside. I don't, I don't. My parents, especially my father, was very, very reticent. You know, even to the end of his days, we never talked about personal things. We never talked about feelings. I knew he loved me, of course. But we never talked about the important things. And my mother was the same way, you know. So, I don't, I don't really share with, like, family members too much. But, I have noticed that you, despite not sharing outwardly, are incredibly empathetic to mental health and mental health issues that other people are going through. Um, well. Take a compliment. I mean, I just, it's just that I've seen so much of it in my family. I mean, I, two people committed suicide that, you know, my ex-brother-in-law and a good friend of mine, both were bipolar. And that's just, one, my cousin is also bipolar and an addict. And then there was my sister, who was an alcoholic, very bad, suffered from anorexia. I, I saw a photo of her when she was in the throes of anorexia. She looked like a walking skeleton. She really did. And I, you know, I myself, I, I have had huge anxiety in my whole life. Huge. I didn't, I thought I was just different from everybody else. I didn't realize that other people suffer from that as well. Because no one has talked about it. Huge anxiety. Oh, my gosh. Last night when they, um, the Fatherhood Project, they called me in to, they gave me a plaque, it was lovely. But I walked in and all the eyes were on me, and I just wanted to run away. Oh, no. Uh, just so you guys know, the Fatherhood Project, I think it's actually, kind of does relate to mental health. It's just an idea. Oh, it's wonderful. It's a rehabilitation for men who've come from prison, who are trying to reestablish themselves back in society, reentering, who have children. So, and a lot of it is, one thing that I've kind of just learned and noticed and everything, and some reading that I've personally done, is that trauma, that a big part of mental health does stem from trauma. A lot of the times, that's where you get PTSD, that's where a lot of sources of anxiety and things come from. And it's really hard to talk with your family about the trauma. Because when there's emotional connections, like for me, that's the most difficult thing, is like, I had a very, very hard childhood when my mom wasn't there and everything. I went through abuse and different things like that. Having to tell your mother that is one of the most difficult things in the world and everything. And that's where, like, thankfully she, as sad as she was, understood that. And that's why she did part of what she did. But the ability to have an outlet. So, like, you may not be able to talk to your family at home or anything, but sometimes having a safe workplace can be a great outfit when you make those, outlet with those connections that you have here. So, kind of my questions for you guys is do you think that here, that Hadley built that safe environment where you feel like you could talk about mental health with the people you work with? I think it's something that, and this is a publication because I've only been here in Maine, that mental health and being encouraging towards one another, it's something that's very big here. At Maine, I've heard from someone, like, you know, being ridiculed because of it. And it's not the kind of environment that you want to be in. I know I would never hear that here. So, I think that's one thing. I think it also has to do with Susan. Like you said, she's very much into helping everybody and being very empathetic towards others. I think that's, everybody sees it and they do the same thing. They follow suit. And I think that's why a lot of people feel safe and want to be here. I think that's really important. You should. You have to set that standard from the top. It is important. It is really important. It is really important. And I think, I don't want, hmm, how do I say this? But I don't think my former supervisor was as empathetic because she also came from that generation. She was from Jamaica. She grew up in England. And just like, even though she was only a few years older than me, she definitely fell in that generation that my parents fell in where it was considered very shameful. There had been a situation with a teen that was developmentally delayed and she had mental health issues. Her mother is an alcoholic. And there was a situation where she was 18 but her mental age was much younger and she had suffered from very poor, she had very low confidence, self-confidence. And she wanted a boyfriend desperately. He was a younger boy. He was, you know, sweet-talking her. And got her over into the bushes. And she realized, oh, wait, I don't like this. This is going too far. She came out. She reported it to the police officer. At the time, we had PBSO details here. But unfortunately, because she was 18 and the boy was younger, and it really, it bounced back very badly on her because she was then banned from any teen activities because the teen activities were only for 12 to 18-year-olds. And I'm sorry, I didn't mean to bring this whole topic up. But this is something that happened years ago and it still hurts so much because this young girl, this was her life. This lover was her life. She was the main reason why I started Animate Clubs. She was the one who really helped me a lot. But she needed this place. She needed us. And then I had to say, well, you can't be in the teen room any longer. You can't attend any teen events. And it was horrible. Because you understood. It was horrible, horrible. You understood her. I did. And I was like, why are you treating this girl like she is the, she's the predator? She's the victim here. And she has, she's definitely developmentally delayed. She probably has had fetal alcohol syndrome. And, well, I kind of made things worse by, I changed the age level. I did it, you know, like 12 and up. And I didn't exactly let her know, although I thought I had. And I kind of got in trouble for that. But I just couldn't, I couldn't like, I couldn't do it. Because you were humanizing her. You were humanizing her. And it just killed me that it was treated in that way. And that's the thing. A lot of times people define you by whatever the diagnosis or anything is, rather than seeing you as a human in all the pieces. And I think it's interesting that I want to point out that you shouldn't have to apologize for past events or things that we go through. Because that's the thing about mental health of like having to say you're shy or anything about talking about something when you shouldn't. Like we're never going to be able to deal with anything or talk about anything or feel safe if we don't feel like we can bring up those things. And that it won't be held against you. And it won't be held against you. Well, I was also afraid because it was work-related and it was somebody that we all know. Yeah. But it was a very painful episode. And I felt, I still feel the injustice. I still feel it. So, anyhow. I think that's also your point, Amanda, that this is a very good place that we have established that it's a safe environment. I think that's also things that, like, I have noticed that most people here is really willing to listen to you. They are not only willing to talk to you about their concerns, but if you are around, like, hey, I'm not feeling well about this or something is happening, you don't have to give details, but they will sit with you and listen to you. And I love it. I remember, I don't want to say names, but there was, I was one time sitting at the desk with someone else and I was, like, usually starting as an LA one, so I was nervous and I was not doing nothing and I was, like, trying to see what I was doing at the desk. And this person on my side was, like, man, I feel like I don't know anything. I was, like, oh, my God, it's not only me. And that's the thing. You don't feel alone anymore. That it's only you. Yeah, exactly. And I think that is the great thing about social media and the Internet and everything is, like, we, like, I know we can't put that out there. Like, you know what, this is how I'm feeling today. Or, like, hey, this is a resource I found that I want to share. And, like, I had to do a social media class for school and I hated it because it was supposed to be, like, 50 Twitter posts, 25 Instagram posts, and, like, five TikTok videos. And I was, like, I don't want all this social media. However, I started it and I have gone down the Twitter rabbit hole so bad. Because one thing. Wait, you mean X? Yes, X, whatever. Okay, whatever is helpful. What I have discovered is, like, you can, like, you don't even necessarily need to even say, like, hey, this is how I'm feeling. You can just post an article. Like, you just share one thing of, like, hey, this really hit me today. This is about, like, how your sleep cycle affects this or anxiety or how this does this or anything. And it's, like, the idea that I can just go on and, like, just power browse through whatever topic I feel like I want to talk, I want to because I'm necessarily, like, I am feeling vulnerable. Brene Brown is one of my favorite people who talks about vulnerability altogether. She talks about why it's so important and how hard it is. And it's the idea that internet lets you connect to people without having to expose all of your vulnerable little parts. Because you can go through and, like, you can see what other people have shared and you can share that, but it's not necessarily huge face-on-face contact. Like, it does, as much as it opens it up and connects us to the world, it also provides us that little barrier for us to be able to, like, look at what we want, look at kind of research or do black hole internet hole searching happens all the time. Yes. But it's just the ability to know that I can go on and go look at articles and then share them and everything with someone else who maybe they need that article or those nice, kind words at that specific moment just because I shared it. Like, it's a wonderful feeling knowing I can share resources with other people, but also knowing I have that protection of, like, hey, I kind of just want to go look at this, but I'm not ready to talk about it yet. Yes. Yes. Definitely. I see that a lot, too, where you can just, like, you're scrolling through whatever platform it is that you're looking at and you're, like, that one, that is the thing that I needed to read today, and you can just hit the like button or whatever it is, or not hit it at all, you know? You have that opportunity to do, like, somebody else is feeling this way that I am feeling right now, too, and it really feels like, at least to me, that mental health and mental illness or whatever struggles people are going through are the norm. It is not the we are not the minority of people. Yeah. That we are the majority. Absolutely. It's just the silent majority of these people that it is, in fact, actually much more normal to have all of these feelings and different things that people are going through. Yeah. And it's only, we're only able to discover that because people start sharing about it. We communicate. Yeah. Because I always thought I was the only one, I was the only person that didn't know how to talk to people that froze up when I had to go into a room full of strangers. Strangers are dangerous, let's just say. The thing that I would say is, you know, it's so interesting because my relationship in general with my daughter is so much different than my mother's relationship. Loved my mother. She was a lovely person. She loved to tease and make fun, so nothing was ever serious. But we never talked about anything important. Whereas with my daughter, and I see that the generational shift of mental health, needing therapy, if you need medication, whatever it is that you need, or being in touch with what your childhood or any traumatic episodes have done to you, it's so much more out in the open with her. I mean, we've talked about, she's done therapy. She had a tough childhood, you know. I mean, her dad and I split up when she was a year, and then we got back together, and then we split up again for good when she was about six. It was fractious, awful. It was a lot of fighting. It was not, there was no money. It was not, sorry, I'm really oversharing. No. It was not a good, she did not have a good, a very stable childhood, shall we say. So she's had some, you know, trauma with a small T, which she taught me about. Yeah. Yeah, but so it is really interesting to see it's such a generational shift. My mother was very traditional. Children were not her friends, and not that, I was still my daughter's mother, but we were much closer in that respect. You know, I mean, my mother was my mother. She had to be obeyed. She loved us very much, but there was not that, she never sat down on the floor and played with us. That, you know, you didn't do that. That wasn't how it was done. You know, you made sure that they had manners, that we knew how to sit at a table and eat properly and say please and thank you. They were taken care of. Yes. That was her, that was how she was raised, and that's how she raised us. So I felt like, not I, but we broke that, you know, but it's not just us, it's also generational. Yeah. I think it's a shift in the way people think. I'm shutting up now. No, you're not. Hearing that, like, to me, it's like such a phenomena that happens, because you both talked about that in your family, too, with generational things, and like how now you're a nephew, now your parents are like, okay, now we're talking about these things, and it's like how you're saying that your mom was always very supportive of you, but now you're involving more people in your family that are becoming more supportive and talking about these things, and it's like, how does it happen? When is that, you know, the shift in the plate tectonics of moving, of how do you, what is it, is it internal, or is it external? Are there forces from outside? Yeah. Or is it from the, how is it? I think it's a little bit of both, because it kind of makes me think of the nature versus nurture argument and stuff, because now that we are talking about it more as a society, there's more research behind it, like learning that a lot of mental health issues are actually biochemical, like they do deal with, like trauma affects your body, it messes up your hormones, it does things, and I think that the idea, like that's the internal part, that more that we're talking about it externally, it's like we're understanding it more, we're creating more research, we're just like more focused on it, I think, than ever before, and I think that's part of making such a huge difference that it is, and because there's more focus on it, I think that's where that shift in generations are starting to come from. It's not, like, it's, science is being put towards there, money is being more put there, like, economics, schools, like everything is focusing more on it. Yeah, it's, I mean, just an example that I had this past week, communication with schools is so very easy these days. Oh, goodness, yeah. I just, I can text message my daughter's teacher, the school nurse, like anybody in there, and I literally had conversations with them, both of them, the teachers and the nurse, and they were like, hey, we think Evie might be experiencing some anxiety. They see it, they know it, and they're like, has she experienced this before? I'm like, yes, actually, let's go ahead, and like, then they're talking about, okay, these are some things we're doing, some meditation in school in the morning, we play some nice calming music, we have these special, like, times when they can share things with us and talk with us, like, they're already implementing these things in school to prevent those things from happening, and it was the easiest conversation for me as a parent to have with them. I didn't have to explain it. They already knew it. And so I didn't have to have that conversation, like, yes, my daughter does experience anxiety, and I didn't have to teach them anything about it. I didn't have to tell them. They already knew. They already knew this is happening, and it's not just her, and we already have things in the background to help with it, but are there more specific, unique things to her that we could already do here to help with that in the school system? And I'm like, this is such an easy conversation to have, and it was really impressive. That makes me super excited for the next generation, because they're growing up seeing that it's all okay. For them, it's already, like, incorporated in, like, preschool. I work for a preschool on occasion and stuff, and, like, they do, they talk about mental health with the parents and everything. They do a specific seminar, and, like, at that young age of already seeing it's okay, I'm so excited. Yeah, she's seven. Like, I didn't have to explain this, and they already are going through and doing it. It kind of makes me also, like, sad that they're already familiar with little tiny children who are having anxiety problems. That breaks my heart. As a person with anxiety, you don't want to see it on a young person. I know. A child. Unfortunately, the good of the fact that information is so easily gettable, the bad part is that children are exposed to it at a younger age, and I feel that, you know, that burden of the information and knowing so much more, being so much more aware of the world. I mean, I think about, like, even my daughter's generation, your daughter's generation. They're so much more aware of what's going on in the world than I was as a child. I mean, if it wasn't in a book, you know. Can you imagine the anxiety you would have had as a child if you knew as much as we do? God, no. And, you know, but at the same time, I think about, like, how mental illness was so demonized. You know what I mean? I know for a fact that it was considered incredibly shameful because my in-laws, my first, you know, family, they were incredibly religious, very, very Catholic, and the fact that their son-in-law committed suicide, it was a whole... Yeah. Yeah. And it came to find out, but we never knew, no one ever talked about it, that he was bipolar and he'd gone off his meds. But that also brings up a conversation that I would love to hear what everybody thinks about the idea. Like, yes, I'm not, we definitely have more information at the fingertips than we ever did before. But I also feel like that because we do talk about it now, and it's not such a... Certain people still find shameful, but it's not as shameful as it was before. We're diagnosing it earlier than we would before, of noticing it more than we would before. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Sure. So we think about all these little kids that are like, oh, this has never happened, like, 20 years ago, but maybe it was. It is. It's just that they were considered the bad kids. They were the incorrigible, oh, you can't control this child. My brother was considered one of the school, like, ne'er-do-wells. He was always in trouble. But, I mean, he wasn't a bad kid, and he's incredibly smart. He just had ADD, and that wasn't recognized then. I think that's also why a lot of mental health is kind of ignored in some families, especially different cultures, because when they come from a different country, you're under a lot of stress, working all the time. It's a standard. It's like, oh, that's not anything on mental health. Everybody feels that way. It's just getting by in life. And whereas, you know, here in our generation, we have a little bit of an easier life than they did. It's true. So then our parents did. So then now it's kind of like we're aware that it's a mental health issue, but back then, to them, it was just getting by. It's a weak life. Yeah. And you're fine. You're okay. 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