LanTOK Banned Books

Today, the hosts discuss banned books and their personal experiences with them. They talk about how books can be banned for various reasons, even if they have educational value or address important topics. They also mention a book called "The Family Book" that was banned because it depicted a same-sex family on one page, despite the book being about different types of families. The hosts emphasize the importance of reading and exploring different perspectives. They also mention a book tasting event where people can sample banned and challenged books to make their own judgments. Hello and welcome to the next edition of The Land Talk. Today we're going to be talking about banned books and banned books week. Dun dun dun! Today you have Candace and Christina and Nathan. Woo! We're all here and this is a pretty hot button topic that we have had at least here in the state of Florida. It's only getting hotter. Yes, and seemingly other hot states also like Texas, Missouri, other places. Those are the three that are I think the most... Texas is number one. I was just looking they beat us out. They beat us out. I'm not sad to have been beaten out. I'm normally very competitive, not in this topic at all. No, thank you. So banned books. Is this a topic or something that either of you guys were aware of before you started working in the libraries? Yes, I feel like I heard about this even when I was in like elementary school. They do displays of like, maybe not that far, but like definitely in like middle school, high school, some point in there at a media center, I've seen displays of like banned books and like discussing why they get banned because I know that when I was younger you hear banned books and you think that like, oh they got banned for a reason, they're bad, and then I remember at least in high school a discussion that we had with some teacher about what it actually means to be banned and how it's not necessarily, you know, they can do a lot of squirrely stuff to make something banned that really shouldn't fit into a ban. Yeah, I definitely did not hear about it until probably middle school. Elementary school, I had no idea of any of that at all. And then middle school, whenever I heard about it, I had the same reaction like, oh this must be a bad thing, and was immediately corrected by one of my teachers. It was actually my political science teacher who was like, no, that is incorrect, it's quite the opposite of that. So I got introduced to it in a really great way, whereas like this is a bad thing, we don't want these things happening. So I never really had any kind of like, oh is this, are these things bad, are we supposed to be reading those, the opposite, like no, read them all, talk about it, like this is what we should be doing. And I remember the first one that I read was Animal Farm in that class, and he was like, read this book, and really wanted us all in on this thing. What about you, Christina, did you know about it before? Yes, I would say probably about middle school as well. Was it the same kind of like explanation for you? Yes, yes, it was. I was indoctrinated. This is an early age. Unsurprising, I feel like, for library workers to have this experience with that. My first interaction with somebody wanting to ban a book is something I will never ever forget. It was also in middle school, and we were assigned to read in our seventh grade literature class about, the topic we were learning about was, what's the one where you, it's like the prediction, like they're foreshadowing. We were learning about foreshadowing as a topic, and we were given the book Gallows Hill to read. It's, nobody's ever heard of the book. It's just a random book, but it is about like the Salem witch child, but set in modern day, and like they're learning about all these and everything. Oh, cool. And totally fine, had excellent use of, what was it, foreshadowing, in it the whole time. Really, really great as a literary device, and there was a student in my class whose mom complained to the school, saying that this was inappropriate because it was a cult and teaching witchcraft to the kids. And my language arts teacher, Mr. Miller, at the time was like, okay, this book, and I went to the Middle School of the Arts, a very open-minded place. This was something that was like, nobody's ever done this before. And so they ended up having to create like a committee of sorts. So he was on it, and then they got kids from the class who were on it, like fighting for the book, and other school board members. And it ended up falling in, like, it was fine, there's nothing wrong with that, and we'll give you an alternate assignment for him to do. And she was livid because it wasn't pulled from everything, everywhere, all. And so the whole time in this class, when we're talking about this book, I could feel his like, I'm teaching this book to you, because like he won this thing, or whatever, he's just a literature kid. How did the student feel about it? He actually was somebody that I was quite familiar with, and he felt pretty bad about it. Like, embarrassed, you know. He was not pushing that. He was not pushing that agenda at all, but he had lived with his mother for a very long time at that point, and it wasn't surprising to him that she was doing it. But it was definitely not something that he wanted, like, any part of at all. So he didn't take a look at it and go, oh my god, this is inappropriate. No, no. This is corrupting me. Exactly. I can feel myself slipping. Not any sense of that at all, whatsoever. But it was such a big to-do, and I felt really bad for him. Luckily, none of the kids were like, oh my gosh. She was part of a whole tribe. It was crazy. It was really, really crazy. Luckily, it was my first and only ever experience with something like that actually happening. And so, of course, my mom was like, well, I'm reading this book with you now, because what? Not in the sense of this is bad, but what's all the hoopla about? That's the funny thing that always happens with fan books, is it just makes people more interested. Exactly. They want to know what the big kerfuffle is about, even if it's about nothing. Right, exactly. And she's like, well, isn't this all stuff that actually really happened in the past anyway? Literally history? I was like, yeah. I mean, it was historical fiction, obviously, but yeah. So it did the opposite of what she was trying to go for, and it made it a lot more popular, and all of us were way more interested in learning than we ever have been. We were like, oh my gosh, we're reading this thing. Meanwhile, we're sitting here reading Julius Caesar, and all of the Shakespeare plays, and all of these things, and I'm like, is this the thing she picked out? I was like, okay. As a teenager, I was very baffled about all the rest of the stuff that we're doing. We put on Little Shop of Horrors that year as the show where the plant is eating people, and there's blood everywhere, and the dentist is a sadist. I'm like, what? Well, that always happens in a show. It's just how arbitrary these beliefs are. It's not like they have a playbook that they're running through. It's the things that make them feel some type of way. Not that I agree with banning books at all, ever, but if you're going to do it, it should be uniform. There should be a rhyme and a reason to it, and that's the other thing that's so annoying. Speaking of reasons. Well, I know there are makeup reasons. Yes, there are a lot of reasons. You can't just say having no literary merit with no other qualifiers or anything like that, but that's what they do. They've got a lot of qualifiers now. Those are in quotations. I pulled because I'm doing a banned book tasting in October, which a book tasting, if anybody hasn't done one of these. Are you guys familiar with it? No, I want to hear all about it. A book tasting, I've done a couple of them, and it is a way of providing a lot of different materials for people to sample in a given time frame. I feel like a lot of times people don't know how to browse books by any other thing besides the name of it and the cover of it. They're like, I don't know if I like this or not. I give everybody a method of doing it where I'm like, okay, so the first thing you're going to do is you're going to look at the title and read the title. You're going to look at the cover. You're going to open the jacket or look at the back. You're going to read the summary, and then you're going to spend about five to six minutes reading the first part of the actual book. Open it up. Actually start reading it and give yourself more than the first couple of pages and sample it. You'll bite out of that book and see if it's something that you want to take home with you. I love it. I love it. So this one I'm doing that with all of the banned and challenged books that are happening because especially now I feel like people are, you know, they're not looking at what the actual material really is. So, for example, one of the challenged and banned books this year and previous, it's a picture book. It's called The Family Book by Todd Parr. I don't know if any of you are familiar with Todd Parr. He's got the big bright illustrations. They're big, bright illustrations, like few words per page. And the reason that the book was banned is because on one page of the entire 32 pages picture book, there is a picture of a same-sex family. And they're cartoons, like not even cartoons to the fact of like they have, you know, defined features. They're like blue and red people with squiggly purple hair. Like it is not anything at all. And the reason it was banned is because of same-sex parents. There is not one mention of anything regarding that whatsoever. But that is the reason that that book was banned in one page out of 32 pages. And it talks about all kinds of different families. Yes. You know, I mean, I feel like it's a great book because it's, you know, it's a very – I got the board book. But I was taking a look at the copy that's on our – Display. Banned book display. And I thought, well, that's great because, you know, kids who come, you know, might only have one parent or come from divorced families. You know, anything that might have a stigma to it was addressed. Yeah. And I thought that was a great way to do it. Yeah, absolutely. It was – it's such a cute – It is. Picture book. It is. Very, very non-intimidating in any way whatsoever. It's really a sweet book. But I was like that's – there's literally one page in it that somebody had some feels about and didn't like it. And they're like, nobody can read this book now because of one thing. And so getting people in this book tasting to be able to be like, can you actually like open it and look at it? And this is the reason why this is a horrible atrocity of a book, like actually giving them the opportunity to see these things. Like there's another one. I'm sure you guys both are familiar with it. The book – it's a graphic novel drama by Raina Telgemeier. Oh, yes. She does Mile and Gus and all of those. So it's set in a middle school and it's set in an arts school. So this, for me, when this came out, I was like, yes, my childhood. There is one – what are they called? The little box. The square. The comic book square. There's one frame in it that has a picture of two guys like doing the like – like their lips are barely even maybe going to touch each other. And it's one square in this entire thick, like long chapters graphic novel. And it is LGBTQ content and goes against family values and morals was the reason why it was banned. And it's one of the top ten like for years since it's come out because of one square in the whole thing. And I'm like, this book, like so if somebody sees it's got LGBTQ content and goes against family values, it's literally one square in the whole thing. So I really want to put these books in people's hands to be able to see them. To understand. And like what is it? Because if you hear it and you don't really pay attention to what is actually going on, you're going to be able to think like, oh, let's be terrible. Right, exactly. Also, it's crazy that those two books like – and that's right now a lot of the bans are with LGBTQ and stuff. But it's legal everywhere. And the entire United States was for years now. It's kind of crazy that that is something that can be banned when the Supreme Court – It's a human right. Yeah, it's a human right. And our Supreme Court of the law of the land has verified it. Yeah. But it's not – but they're saying it's not okay. It's in the books. It should always be okay. But now it's like officially in the books. And it's just crazy that that's – Yep. So another one, another one that I thought was just like, oh, my gosh. I'm sure you guys have seen this one because the cover is really funny, too. Sex is a Funny Word. It is a nonfiction – oh, well, I have to bring it in for you guys. It's a nonfiction – it looks like a Todd Parr book. Like the colors on it are like primary reds and blues and yellows. And it's in the juvenile nonfiction section, okay? It's nonfiction, and so it's supposed to be talking about puberty and adolescence and all of these things. And it's banned, like, everywhere because it talks about LGBTQ content because that's a thing, right? It talks about gender identity because that's also a thing. And it talks about sex education. Like, that is what the book is about, right? It's about that. That's not how this has got here. And so it was banned because nobody should know about any of those things. Like, not whatsoever. They're not useful at all. Nobody should know about it at all. So that one I was like, oh, that's a very funny one. The other ones, because I know you're saying LGBTQ stuff is what is mostly getting banned right now, the other one is probably to no surprise to anybody, anything about race. So one of them that's been banned for a long time – I'm going to pull an old title out now, Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry. And the reason for banning this one is because it's about racism. It's about racism, so we shouldn't read about it. And it has racial slurs in it because that happened in history, and we should ban those because it isn't good for us to talk about either of those things. So I thought that one was – and those are the legit reasons why they were submitted for banning and challenging, because it talks about racism and racial slurs. That's what happened in history. We're never going to learn from anything if we don't. There's such a movement to erase what actually happened. Yeah. So that we can do it again. Let's see, what was the other one that was on here that is also one that has to do with that? Oh, this one, it doesn't say racism in it, but it is the Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian. Same thing. It talks about his childhood growing up on a reservation. So it clearly has to do with race, but they said they didn't like it because of profanity and that it was sexually explicit. But it's in the YA section. I don't remember that in the book. And you've read it. I don't remember that. He talks about his upbringing, but it wasn't even, I don't remember any. I mean, it's been a while. Yeah, yeah. And then, same thing, the book Out of Darkness. They're clearly non-white individuals that the story is about, but it's sexually explicit, even though it has. I think it's a, it's an honor book. I can't see which one that is. Maybe Pure Belpré, maybe. I see the P on it. So I thought that one, like, that's just typical. To Kill a Mockingbird. Same reason. That one has been on there. It wasn't in the top 13 this year, though, of most challenged books of 2022. It's because we're coming along in our world view, and we have new books that are trying to do good things that have to be banned. Yes, exactly, exactly. So the American Library Association tracks all of them. Like, any time a book is challenged or banned, the libraries have to send it up so that they can keep track of all of this information. So last year alone, there was 1,269 challenges to libraries, schools, and university materials. This is adult people going to universities, and children here, right? And then of the 2,571 unique titles that were challenged or banned, the top 13 – and I'll tell you the name of it and the reason – number one, the top most challenged – no, I'll go from the back. I'll go backwards. That's more fun. So number 13, This Book is Gay by Juno Dawson, reasons, LGBTQIA content, sex education, claimed to be sexually explicit. Claimed. Number 12, Me and Earl and the Dying Girl by Jessie Andrews, reasons, claimed to be sexually explicit and profane. So there's bad words. Has anybody walked into a middle school? Exactly. You'll hear worse than what's in that book, I'm sure. Crank by Ellen Hopkins. She does a lot of books that are very – she gets down to business. Very intense. Yeah, very intense. The reasons, claimed to be sexually explicit and drugs. Just drugs. All the drugs. Number 10, A Court of Mist and Fury. This also has banned on there. Claimed to be sexually explicit. It is. I've read it. It is definitely sexually explicit, but that was also – I was surprised to see on, like, the top most – it's a YA book. It's a silly YA fantasy book. Number nine, Out of Darkness by Ashley Hope Perez, the reason it claimed to be sexually explicit. Number eight, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie, claimed to be sexually explicit and profane. Number seven, Lawn Boy by Jonathan Evason. It's LGBTQIA content and claimed to be sexually explicit. Number six, The Perks of Being a Wallflower. The reasons, it's claimed to be sexually explicit, LGBTQIA content, rape, drugs, and profanity. Number five, Looking for Alaska by John Green. John Green, people. Claimed to be sexually explicit, LGBTQIA content. Number four, Flamer by Mike Curato, LGBTQIA content, claimed to be sexually explicit. These are adult books. Like, so many of these are, like, in the adult classified section. Number three, The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison. Reasons, rape, incest, claimed to be sexually explicit, and EDI content, which is equity, diversity, and diversity. Yes, that content is bad. That one was a big, like, I can't believe that is actually written in this. A reason for wrongness. For wrongness, yeah. Number two, All Boys Aren't Blue by George M. Johnson. The reason, LGBTQIA content, claimed to be sexually explicit. It's a very good book. I loved it. And number one, the number one top most challenged book of 2022, gender queer. For LGBTQIA content and claimed to be sexually explicit. Another adult book. So, there was probably a lot of overlap in those reasons for all of those books being banned. That is showing exactly what people are thinking. It's very, very, I mean, how many different types of things are in there. LGBTQIA content and sexually explicit and racism and things that have to do with diversity. And I'm like, hmm. And they say that other people have an agenda. Yeah, right. I feel like it's just such a, groups like, was it Moms for Liberty? Yes. They're pushing a lot of stuff right now. Exactly. I mean, just because you can scream the loudest doesn't mean that you're correct. Well, that's not what our current politics has to say. That is being proved wrong. And that's the problem is that, like, this is working. And that's why they keep doing it. And I saw, I read an article recently, I don't have it, I didn't pull it up, that the majority of the bans and challenges are from just, like, a handful of people. Yes. It's the same people that are making this. So, it sounds like it's like they're using the, you know, we, the big giant we. But it's really only, like, this many people. This happens all the time. With other things, you have to be careful, too. I know, like, on YouTube videos, on things like that, you'll see that, like, oh, everybody's saying this, but really it's just, like, one person with a loud voice is deciding. And they're speaking for everybody. Yeah. And so, it's important to, like, look into why, like, this is why we're having this discussion right now. Exactly. And, like, discussing it and thinking about why exactly is that instead of just being, like, like at the beginning, oh, banned books, banned books must be bad. It's like, wait a second, why are they being banned? What's the process? And then you realize. Ask the question. Yes. So, when I did library school, like, the first school visit I did was to Brentford. Mm-hmm. And I think her name was Cookie Davis. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Uh-huh. And she showed me a file, a very thick file of titles that had been challenged in her library and the justifications that she had to write up. And she mentioned that this particular parent had students in a school in Royal Palm as well as Dreyfus. Mm-hmm. And so, they, like, did double duty and wrote up challenges, you know. For both schools. For both schools. Making it seem like there's more people. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Exactly. So, that seems to be a trend. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 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