2024_0505_2312

The conversation is about setting boundaries with people. One person is more extroverted and lets people in easily, while the other person is more cautious and establishes boundaries before letting people in. They discuss how they each have different approaches and how it can be a pendulum swing between having no boundaries and having too many boundaries. They talk about the importance of including God in the process of setting boundaries and finding a healthy middle ground. One person mentions that the other person is currently establishing more boundaries in their life, which they see as a positive change. We're just going to record everything. Oh, yeah. Do this. This. Because you can always edit stuff. Yeah. Is that good? Mm-hmm. Why is mine super long and yours super short? Mine is short, yeah. Yeah. I think that's probably the ones that they take over there. Is that good? Yeah, I don't think I need this. Can you hear me? What up? Welcome to the podcast that has no name. What up, what up, what up? We have Katie and Kenya here with nothing to talk about. JK, we always have something to talk about. Talk about something. In the car, we were talking about boundaries and how hard it is to set with really the people closest to us. That's what I see. I see, like, it's way easier, especially new people, right? Like, when you first meet someone, maybe you don't give them all your boundaries. I think it probably depends on your person, right? Your personality. So, like, for me, I'm like the friendly golden retriever. Like, oh, that's not even true, actually. I think in my old life, I was more of what I've become way more cautious about who I let in my life. Not as a, I love you because you're a child of God person or because Jesus loves you. Like, I, you know, I will connect with you because of that. But to let you into my life, into one of my circles, right? Like, the inner circle, the outer circle. Like, Jesus is three, and then the 12, and then the 70, and then the, you know. That I have learned through trial and fire. And not everybody's meant to be in your life for a season at that season, right? Like, so, but, yeah, I think because I'm more extroverted when I first meet someone. I would say that I'm more hang loose. Their impression of me is like, oh, she's so fun, and she's so funny. But I don't know how serious and intense. Maybe intense, but intensely fun. Not intensely, like, dang, did she just cut me? I think it's the opposite for me. Is that my boundaries are very clear. They almost seem firmer in the beginning. Because I soften those boundaries as I get to know someone. And as they come in, and I, yeah, they just soften. Because initially, like, there's very little access. And then I have to let them in through the first gate and the second gate. And not like, it isn't even so much, like, they don't have enough value to come in. They just haven't. I'm such an observer of people. That I want to know your intentions, your motivations. I want to get to know you here on the outside before I let you into the first gate. Into the farm, into the house. So each gate almost gets you closer to my family, closer to my heart, closer to who I intimately am. Has to be accessed through some trust established and some values and some things. And so it almost kind of goes backwards. It isn't just open. Everybody comes in as an evangelistic kind of family that you are. Your gates are almost always open. And so you let people in, and then you kind of softly push them out if they, you know, don't belong there. That is probably pretty true, in a way. Because I think I at least let them on the farm, right? Like, they may not be able to come in the house yet. But to be able to come onto the property. And, you know, we have people coming and dropping off stuff all the time. So it's like a very natural, in the physical form, for us to do that. But also, really spiritually as well. Like, I have no problem telling you my story, right? Like, I'll tell you the hard and the ugly testimony if the Lord asks me to. And I know you would, too. But, like, probably even without the Lord. Right, right. For me, yeah. I have to wait for the Lord to open that gate. I really need a clear sign, a clear prompting. Yeah, absolutely. And it's not from a place of shame. Like, I don't really care how you view me. It's a matter of, if this is going to add value to you, then the Lord will open that gate. And therefore, I can share something that's really meaningful. Whether it be about my marriage. I'm really open about my marriage. My struggles being a parent. My childhood and all those things. Those are open once you... But those are not accessible until way over here. Right. Like, after. Yeah. And it's just not how He uses me, right? So, for you, being more evangelistic as a family. Much more than just you. But being extroverted. Like, you can reach these people out here. For me, there's an intimacy that has to be established. Because when I speak into people, they have to know my heart. Not so much necessarily know my heart, but they kind of have to know my heart. Because I can also come off as pretty firm. Like, when there's a spiritual component to something, and I feel like the Lord has said something, then the Lord has said it. Period. Like, even now, I get, like, the Lord has said it. And so, in order to receive that kind of firmness, I think it's good to know me intimately a little bit closer. He doesn't just have me speak to random people. It's more like the people that He lets in. And they have to trust you, too. And they have to trust me, right? I have to open doors to me for them to know me, to know my intentions, my motivations, my heart. Before I'm just going to be like, let's say the Lord, you know? I have never heard you say that, ever. Yeah. So, I don't know that I ever would. But it isn't, it's just not, I'm not prophetic in that way, where there's just openly. And I notice that the people that do that have a warmness to them. That you can receive, maybe, something without them knowing you. And it's just utilized differently. That's true. Right? That makes sense. Because there have been times when I go to a new church, and they're passing out words like crackers. I'm like, I'm going to get a word, I'm going to get a word. And, you know, some people, it just falls, because it's not right. But you've had those moments, those encounters with people that, in that moment, they really were seeking the Lord for you. And you received it with love. Not any other way. Sometimes it's very encouraging, sometimes it's very unexpected. Like, I don't know about all that. But there's an openness to it, because of the Holy Spirit, the anointing on that person. Yeah. So, here's a question. So, with having zero boundaries, you know me, so many times, like, people go through what I call pendulum swings. You know, when they have a realization of how unhealthy something has been, or is, and they almost go to the complete opposite extreme. Then you have too many boundaries, or you're too strict, or you're too, really, self-protective. Right? That's exactly what that is. Right? Like, I got hurt here, because I had no boundaries, so now I'm going to go over here and have all the boundaries, and build up all the walls, like castle fortress style. So, how do you get to the medium, and where am I in my pendulum swing? Where are you? That's a question for you, friend. I don't know, but as my dearest, that's all my business. I think it's a very common human sort of pattern to, like you say, pendulum swing from, what's the word? I can't think of it. Anyway, from side to side, right? So, from here to here, all the way over, because we don't always include God in our recalibration, right? In our attempt to recalibrate something that we know is not working for us, without including God, we go into self-protective, and can become, and sometimes even the opposite. You feel like you're too restricted, because the Lord never asked you to behave in this way, but you're legalistic. And now you seek, quote-unquote, freedom, and you swing all the way over. Now you're loosey-goosey, just living in the world. Girls gone wild. Girls gone wild, right? Just because you just didn't allow the Lord to recalibrate you. And so, it's very, I feel like, common, normal, because we attempt to do it ourselves. We don't always check in. There's so much access to the Holy Spirit, and He walks with us, in us, always. And when we don't check in, we're just doing life on our own, really. And so, where are you? I think that you're in a place, currently, that I see you establishing more boundaries than I think I have ever seen you establish in the past. And I think that's healthy. I mean, I think that you led a different life, where everyone was welcome. Everything was okay, and at times, at the expense of your family. And so, you know, if we're staying up 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning talking, and now you're a tired mama for your kids the next day, it was okay. Now, you know, I think when the Lord calls you to something, He'll give you grace for it. But if you are just so open that you don't have those boundaries, where you say, okay, well, it's actually really late, and I have to get some rest. Otherwise, I'm going to be kind of useless to my family the next day. I've seen you not take those, not establish those boundaries. And now I think that there's, okay, we're going to wrap this up. Or, hey, I think it's not okay to sit the Bible study every other week at my house, because it's affecting my family. Where your heart is not for that. You want it. You want to be the host. You do it well. You are an opener of doors. You want to gather the people. And so, I'm seeing you establish more boundaries that are healthy. You haven't just taken the full pendulum swing where, like, no, we're not doing it at my house because my family is overwhelmed with having to do it. I think you have found a good middle. And I think it's because you're so, you're checking in with the Lord a lot more often. And a lot more, not a lot more often is not what I would say, is that you're just checking in. You're checking in saying, okay, Lord, what's my motivation behind this? Where before you just assumed that your motivation was good. Right. And godly. Right. Well, good and godly can be separate things, right? Maybe it looks good to the outside world because you're being so generous, and it's so good. But the Lord never called you to it. And so now there's negative consequences to that. Because you just assumed that it was something good to do. But you're checking in and saying, Lord, do you want me to do this? Are you asking me to sacrifice in this way? And that's huge. Because then it keeps you from getting burned out. Anything that the Lord has asked me to do has come with grace. You know, it's not that it's easy. I think that that's the mistake that we assume that the Lord called us to. It should be smooth. It should be flowy. It should be easy. I still have to battle with my flesh. I still have to battle with my limitations. And so when he asked me to go work this job, I was like, I have no clue what I'm doing here. I have never been in this position before. I kept getting questions from one of our friends like, aren't you burned out? Or like, how are you doing? And I was just like, I'm not. Yeah. I'm not. I'm not. Or like, we're renovating the house. How could you possibly be still okay with renovating the house six months into it? I don't know. It's fine. It's because the Lord, there was just so much grace there. But it doesn't mean our bodies weren't sore. That at times we were like, oh my gosh, we're weighing over our heads. That it was still a challenge to get up, leave my children, and go to work. You know, those things still were hard, but there was a grace to it that you don't become overwhelmed and overburdened. Like you never felt torn. Yeah. Right? And you were always in the whole process, even if it wasn't a process that you loved walking through or being in. You knew, A, it was just a season. Mm-hmm. And you were excited about the vision the Lord had given you that this season was providing. Yeah. And you were able to see Him. Like you talk about seeing Him in the thread of the whole journey. The whole thing. The whole thing. How do we miss that thread? And how do some people see it so easily? I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. I'm contemplative anyway. Yeah. So I really like to sit back and kind of look at the bigger picture. It's part of my nature is to, because I'm an observer and I'm a watcher, I'm never in front of the thing. I'm always a few steps behind. Yeah. So I'm already, like, taking in life from the rearview mirror because I just, it's how I operate. And so when I think it's just a little, for me it's just a gift that He's allowed me to see because He knows how much value it brings to me. And I think that maybe it wouldn't be as valuable to other people that maybe live life a few steps ahead. Maybe that contemplative spirit is not as meaningful or maybe it just wouldn't mean the same thing. I don't know. I think it could be because it's just the Lord knows that that person doesn't need it. Or maybe you're just running too far ahead and miss it, you know. Right. Or you just, I don't know. I don't know because I've just, I've not been in that place where, how does this all make sense, Lord? Because I'm back here. He shows me. Because you said yes to this, this thing happened. And because you said yes to this, this other thing happened. And it's this beautiful thread where I can see Him. And I expect to see Him in all of it, too. Right. Like in the good, in the bad, in the hard. And I don't, like, I'm like, okay, you asked me to do this. So if you asked me to do this, I want to see what it ties into. And so there's an expectation that He's going to show me why He called me there. Because I don't just run ahead. I don't make moves without Him presenting the next step. Right. Whereas me, it's the far opposite of the contemplative. It's like you said, A, it's not how it was wired. So there is some value in that. However, like, you have learned to move forward according to the Lord. I have to learn how to stop according to the Lord. Like, it's almost, it's the same and the opposite. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, and that's one of the things I loved about what we, you know, what I just learned through this study we just did is that I knew, I had learned a long time ago the difference between being busy and productive. However, even in my productivity, I can still get too busy. And it positions me to be ahead of the Lord. It's not my heart. It's not my intention. You know, He knows it's not my desire. But it is my position. And so if I do not stop during the day, not just in the morning, but throughout the day, and that's why I was like, you know what, maybe I need to just be like Daniel and have those specific times of day, set the alarm on my phone that says, you know, because my tendency, I just read it this morning in this, you know, day-by-day devotional thing where it's talking about how if you have to, like, finish what you're doing before you're willing to stop, you're missing it. You're missing what the Lord is leading you to, is asking from you, is you're missing the blessing, the gift of stopping and reconnecting with Him, whether it's in the daytime when you're just, you know, need to have that moment with the Lord, or on a Sabbath, that 24-hour time period where you're taking out every single week to really devote your life, that gives me a 24-hour time period where I can choose nothing. I don't have to, like, I have free will, but I can. I have positioned myself to be contemplative with the Lord and choose to eliminate the busyness, the productivity, the distraction from hearing Him, seeing Him, and even though, you know, from going and being a Sabbath keeper in my young life and young adult life to kind of pendulum swinging the other way because I knew I wasn't doing it the right way and we knew that there was, we just, we knew that we didn't know something. And I think we needed some healing from the way that we were taught and expected and it was just so much legalism and religiosity that we knew we were like, that's not God's heart. Now that we have God's heart of the matter, it's like entering in this very familiar place that feels so good that I don't have to, like, that was one of the questions was like, what do you have to do to stop for the Sabbath? And I'm like, man, I don't actually, it's more my day, in my day that I have to be intentional. But this 24-hour Sabbath time period to stop and fully devote my time and my attention to Him and the gifts that He's given to me with my family and the nature and all the things, like the delicious food, you know, like that's an easy thing for me to do. It's interesting. It's an interesting thing to learn about myself. I think it's really great just because you see a lot of the difference in how He's created each one of us, but also it's mimicked in the differences you see between His disciples in the Bible, too, where you have just such a difference in that He doesn't position one over the other. They all work in conjunction for the greater picture to be able to share His gospel, and they each share it in a different way. And so you have, I may get this wrong because I'm not super familiar with every aspect of the books, but when I think of Peter and I think of how he runs ahead and sometimes his mouth gets ahead of him and sometimes his actions get ahead of him because he has such a fervor and such a love for the Lord that he just wants to get it right, but he's a doer. And so I look at you and I see that apostolic drive to push forward, and I think about it even in the workplace where I had the person that I relieved. She was sort of in that place. She was sort of like a Peter where she would be given a task and she would run with it. No need for checking in. No need. She just did it, right? And so when the Lord gives you something, it isn't even that He's asking you to move slowly with it. At times, He will call you to run with it. Here's a great picture of it. Here's a vision of what I want it to look like. Now run with it because He trusts you in that way. He trusts you in that way and He's equipped you. Even more than trust you, He's equipped you to operate in that way. Where when I stepped into the position and I was the new person, my boss, I checked in with him frequently. He was not used to that because we were two totally different people. And so very few times did I make a move without checking in with him first. And it wasn't that I wasn't as competent as this other person or as equipped to do the job, but we just had different experiences. And so I checked in and then I did it. I checked in. And so that's kind of how I see it play out where the Lord will give you something and He wants you to run with it. But He knows whether it's just because of the way He built me, whether it's because He needs me to go slow, whatever His reasoning is, is that I have to check in step by step. And He doesn't give me big visions. Most of the time is one step at a time. And He knows that I will obey that step and then He'll highlight the next. And if I don't obey that step, He'll drop it. He won't. Or He'll try to bring it around a different way or I'll just miss out because we have the choice to either obey the Lord or not. And so I've seen things where I haven't picked up what He's put down and I've seen things kind of fall apart because I didn't do what I was supposed to do. But there's always this, like, knowing inside of me that I should have done that. And I know that I'll pay the consequences for it. I mean, that sounds harsh, but there are consequences for not obeying the Lord. I mean, we can't teach our children that there's consequences and then think that somehow. There's no consequences for us, right? That the loving grace and mercy of the Lord will free us from the consequences of our actions. That's just not realistic. And so I have hesitated out of fleshly discomfort for whatever reason that He has said, do something. And I'm like, oh, just wait, Lord. And then I'll see it play out where it really behooves me to have done it when He asked me to. And I didn't. And so I've learned over the years to stop dragging my feet and to say, yes, Lord, when He asks me and then He shows me. And so I like to see someone who is a driver kind of step back, but I don't want you to feel like you've just done it wrong. You've done it according to your purpose, your giftings, your makeup. And so I think that He will call you to run with it at times. But the checking in process is necessary because you can burn yourself out. You can push forward and do all of this work. And finally, when you check in with Him, He's like, actually, that's not a direction I was hoping to take it in. And now you're like, oh, I've done all of this work that He can't even utilize because it wasn't the direction that He wanted me to go in. And so that's one of the benefits that I can see in my life of slowing down is I don't get burned out because I just don't take on things that He hasn't called me to, that He hasn't very clearly and definitively called me to because I've just found those to be burdensome, ill-fitting, and they just end up in burnout. So I don't want to do it kind of thing. I think that's the key is that regardless of your gifting and how the Lord is asking you to move forward in a thing, whether it's checking in, more contemplative, or hey, I'm giving you this task and I'll run with it, there's peace. There's peace in it. You see the Lord working in it, right? It's not just a bunch of like, you know, it's not a complete uphill, right? Like He does make grace for it. And so when you know you're just, like you said, it's ill-fitted. You just keep slamming into these doors. It's usually a sign, especially when you combine that with the lack of, I'm overwhelmed, I'm burnout, there's no peace in this. Then, yeah, it's time to check in with the Lord. Am I doing this the way you've asked me? Am I going in the right direction? Or maybe I'm not moving on this thing that you've asked me to. And because of that, other doors that were open are now closing. I think that that's a good symbol. It's not the word, but just, you know, a good thing to check in. In my head, is this moving in the rhythm of the Lord? You know, like He has a rhythm for things. And is the flow of the Holy Spirit in this? Am I checking in? Am I being led? Is there peace in this? Even the right tools, the right tools for the job. Yeah. You know, I think of the tools that we have here in front of us. We have a few books. And, you know, going through and knowing that I wanted to do parenting differently, knowing that I needed, in order to break generational curses in my family, to do things differently. I didn't have the tools that I needed. I don't know how else to say it. I actually had read, had started, my initial journey into parenthood had started with shepherding a child's heart. It always directed me to the heart. I knew it. I just knew it that this was the answer. And reading Shepherding the Child's Heart, I knew that there was truth there. And that there, I just didn't know how to implement it. And there hadn't been enough transformation in me to know where the brokenness was in me and what was driving me falling back into these same patterns with my own children, negative patterns that were not reflective of Christ. And so when I was scrolling through Facebook and I saw a challenge, I remember, here's this little, I say little, she's not little, but this lady who is encouraging you to join this challenge. And it was, As God Parents You, So Parent Your Children. That was kind of like the title of it. And I thought, let me see what this is. Like, I just stopped, right? Like, scrolling is, if anybody scrolls, you know, you just scroll every now and then something catches your attention. But this was a very clear stop, like stop and pay attention to this. And I remember just clicking into that and signing up for this challenge and thinking, like so many other things, I'm just not going to get to it because, you know, something else would be equally distracting. There was this pressure to know. The Lord was like, I have a blueprint for you. And so when he gives us a tool, that fits in with you, right? Because sometimes my tool belt is going to be a different size than your tool belt. It's going to be a different material. Maybe I'm allergic to leather. And maybe you're, you know what I mean? And so it's going to, it has to be the right tools for you. And this happened to be it. Marilyn Halshall and her ministry happened to be a really, a really good tool for me and my family. And I could receive from her. I could hear what she was saying. And I could finally, although it was mostly theories, I felt like I had a blueprint. Like I had a blueprint. And I remember thinking, I just kept saying that word because I was like, I knew that this is what the Lord wanted for my family. I knew that there was a vision that my family could be transformed by the radical love of Jesus. And yet I didn't know how to get there. So there was so much frustration and shame, really, because I knew I was doing it wrong. And so to hide that shame or to not feel that shame, I would go into self-destructive patterns that were not positive, that were not helpful, that were not moving me towards, because I felt, because I remember sitting with Paul St. John, and he said, I was dealing with depression. And he said, I said, it's concerning my children. I really struggle in this area. And I was like, I raised my voice at them. I'm hurtful. I do these things. And he was like, well, what does that make you feel? And I just kept saying, I just feel bad, and I don't like feeling. So then I numb. Like I knew my patterns. I knew enough about myself that when I do this thing that I shouldn't be doing, I feel guilt, and therefore I retreat. I don't want to feel guilt. I don't want to feel shame. And so therefore I just numb to ignore that feeling. And he finally was like, finally, because I said the word guilt. And there was this guilt because I knew I wasn't doing what the Lord was calling me to do. And there was a lot of shame because I just didn't know how to. And so meeting her, like getting into her ministry and finding that there was a transformation of my mind that needed to occur first, before I could change my patterns of behavior, really just unraveled a whole bunch of healing for us, where there was like, okay, now you know why you react this way. Now you can let the Lord heal it. Now you can move forward in a new way. And so there was a lot of going back to go forward, which is also what? What's this author's name? Peter Scazzaro. When Peter Scazzaro talks about looking backwards in order to move forward. Emotionally healthy spirituality. And I felt like that was sort of taboo. I didn't know within the circle and the place that I had entered into Christianity and the group of people that I had done the Christian life with, a lot of them, there was this thing where you just don't go back. You move forward, you move forward, you move forward. You never look back. If you look back, you're just going to fall into a pit. Yeah. And I just remember being like, but I have all of these tools that I'm bringing with me. And although I know that these tools are not helping me build a new future, these are the only tools I have. So therefore, what you're asking me to do instead is to cut off the entirety of me in order to just show up with nothing. And I know that the Lord will ask you sometimes to do that, to surrender all of it. But there was still so much that was bound up in my identity that was connected to who I was that I didn't know how to release. I didn't know how to surrender. And it wasn't even that. Those were things that had become part of me, my character. So I literally had to recognize them, unwind that, allow the Lord to unwind it and to show me a new way. And there was shame also that came with like, I should be further along because now I know Jesus and therefore I'm supposed to be well. And so when you're not allowed to look back and instead you just carry all the shame because those patterns had not gone away. And so instead I just felt like, I don't know, everybody else got it figured out and I just somehow am still back here. It's just that I think you don't allow the Lord to do the thing that he wants to do, to go back to heal some things to then move forward. It makes me think of the verse where we are new creation, right? The old self is passed away. And the truth is that is the reality of where we are as a born-again believer. However, it is also not all of the reality. The reality is we still are walking in our past and there's so much healing that isn't always instantaneously the minute you get dumped or the minute that you surrender. Like there's still sometimes a process of healing that the Lord has to take us through. And to be honest, when I look back at my life, I want to know that Jesus was there. I don't want to believe that he just showed up in my 20s. You know what I mean? Like why weren't you there when this happened and this happened and this happened? That's so often the question that unbelievers have is like, well, how can there be such a good and loving God if all this bad is happening, right? And that is not just happening to everybody else. We're asked that because that happens to us. And we need to see God in it and we can only do that if after we become a believer we allow him to show us and we go back and we allow him to see, you know, I mean we allow him to show us and heal us from the things that were mishandled and lacking and have led us to a place where we react, we're triggered when this happens. The patterns of behavior that have been embedded into your life. And generational. Sometimes we carry stuff that we didn't even initiate and we don't even know where it came from. So again, we need to hear the Lord in that because that helps me to have grace for the people that came before me, you know? That's one of the gifts that I feel like I've gotten since allowing the Lord to show me things in the past is that I say it all the time when we're in groups. I have so much grace for myself. And it isn't that I just allow myself free reign to sin and be like, oh, the Lord will forgive me. It's that I know because he's shown me that all of the shame that I carried because I believed that it was all mine, that I was just inadequate and that's why I kept messing up, that I just didn't have enough willpower to do it right. All of those were lies and there was so much shame connected to that that it really hid me from people. It hid me from even being real because it's just I was ashamed of all of the things that continued to remain. So when I allowed him to show me where a lot of the root of these things were, whether they were generational or the way I was handled as a child or the way I was handled as a young woman, right? At different points in time where I recognized where a self-protective behavior came from or where some of these triggers were coming from, it allowed so much grace to pour in. Like when I say that I have grace for myself, it's that I recognize that that pattern that I'm carrying is not because I'm just a bad person who has bad patterns. It's that I am still potentially dealing with a self-protection. Maybe I'm still dealing with some hurts. Maybe when I was abandoned here, it kind of shows up in my marriage this way. And so little by little, that's been the biggest gift of going backwards is knowing that I just wasn't jacked up, that there was reasoning behind my patterns. I remember when I met my husband, I told him, you don't want to get to know me. You don't want to marry me because I'm a bad person. And I fully believed that. Like to tell the person who's courting you, I would run if I was you because I'm just bad. Right. I mean, that's a crazy thing to tell someone. I'm a bad person. Right. Well, because you believe that. I believe that. I fully believed that because there was nothing that I could see in me that was good. And even after becoming a believer of Christ, I continued these same patterns. I continued to believe that I was a bad person who just couldn't get it right because I just continued into these same patterns. So going back really allowed God to show me this is the origin of this thing. This is the source of this thing. This is why you respond this way. And a lot of different tools that he used to get me there. The Body Keeps the Score, it was an amazing book that really radically showed me where in my body, physically, neurologically, physiologically, I was dealing with these same things because of things that happened in the past, and then it didn't start with you and kind of showing me through the generational line where I was carrying things that didn't belong to me. And so it just opened up a floodgate of understanding, and with it came just God's grace. And so if I do something wrong, I can go to my children and say, Hey, I'm really sorry that I responded that way. You know, I was dealing with this, this, and this, and I can give them less to do with you and more about the fact that this made me feel inadequate because when I was a child, blah, blah, blah, blah. And not excusing poor behavior, but knowing, Okay, now that I can see it clearly, I have an opportunity to change this. Man, I think about the grace your children are going to grow up having, you know, like for people because they've walked this journey and you've allowed them to see and be a part of your journey and to show them, you know, yeah, this kind of stuff happened to me, but, and it did form some things in me, but it doesn't have to control me, right? Like it doesn't have to now be my identity any longer. It doesn't have to be a part of my identity, I guess, maybe is the right way to say it. And now they're going to, like how many people have we heard, I'm this way because my parents did this, this, and this, and they treated me this way, and this was my experience, and blah, blah, blah. And I'm not taking away the validity of that feeling. Or they even lack the self-awareness to not even know, and they just make excuses around it or try to get other people to accommodate them, and I'm just this. Right. It's like the why. Take it or leave it. Yeah, take it or leave it sort of mentality where they're not, you know, on one end you can blame everybody else, or on the other end say I'm unwilling to change because this is who I am without knowing that there's so much freedom to be had. You know, when you walk around in bondage and you don't know that it's bondage. Yeah. You don't know what you don't know, and so for so long I kind of felt like there was, I didn't feel free. I knew that, but I didn't know how to get the freedom. And a lot of it was going back to go forward. And maybe, you know, for me, I really like logical and scientific sort of, and my mind works in that way, and so I wanted to see and I needed to hear the science behind potentially why I was acting this way and potentially, you know, patterns. And I think a lot of people are cued into that nowadays. And unfortunately, I don't always see it in a way that how can I grow? Now that I recognize these things, how can I grow? Instead, a lot of the patterns that I see, specifically on social media, is these are my patterns. Right. Deal with it, accommodate me. This is my Enneagram number, this is who I, like all the things. Or I do this because I have ADHD, or I do this because I have, you know, I learned as an adult now that I have autism. Now, those are real neurological conditions where the mind works differently. But growing in a way that says these are my limitations and what can I do to grow from there. Right. Not to feel stuck. Not to feel stuck. Or bound by it. There is validation, right? And I think that's one of the tricky parts is that you get all this validation. This is why I'm like this. But if you stay there, then it hinders the ability to grow from there because you feel so validated for all of a sudden you realize, this is why I responded this way every time this happened. And so there's like this really, everyone wants to feel validated. Absolutely. And so when it remains there, when you exclude God from that, I think that you can exclude potential growth because the Lord doesn't show you something just to leave it like that. Right. You know, at times, you know, there's healing potentially from that. And so, you know, when you see something, when you recognize a pattern, when you go back, I think the danger is to go back, see all of this validation, and then remain. Remain. And then exclude God from it and say, well, this is who I am, and this is why I am that way. And not know that there's so much more freedom if you allow God in to heal some of those places. And so I knew that I was dealing with abandonment issues. I knew I was dealing with rejection issues. I knew I had an addictive type of personality and that that could carry into my children. But I didn't let it be like, well, I just get addicted to stuff, so, you know, it's just part of who I am. I knew that the Lord wanted to bring more freedom if I just allowed him in those places because the Lord doesn't just push his way through and say, let me in. You know, there's an invitation to let him in, an invitation to surrender those areas to him. And when we do, I think that there's transformation. I know there's transformation because I just have walked into freedom. And it eliminates the shame. It eliminates the I just keep falling into this thing. But when you don't, I think there's validation without growth. And it's not for a lack of deliverance sessions or, you know, deliverance classes or those things. Those can be very good tools. But, again, it's not always the end-all, be-all, right? It's not where healing doesn't just happen in one class, right? Like there is, I think that for so much of our life, we are healing from one thing or another. Absolutely. And that's okay. It's actually beneficial to go through it so you know how to go through it the next time and the next time. And then you're developing a process. You're creating a new pattern. Yeah, and creating a new pattern of behavior. Right. So that the old pattern actually fades away into the foreground and not the background, foreground. Yeah. For me, it was understanding who I was in my natural tendencies that actually helped bring freedom because now I didn't feel like an oddball. Like I didn't feel like there was something wrong with me. You know, I read, I think, Personality Plus. I think it's called Wired This Way Now or Wired That Way or something. Anyways, it's just one of those like simple personality books, and it was from a Christian perspective, which I value and I appreciate because I want to see God in it. I don't want to just see what somebody else thinks. And that helped me not only to be aware, self-aware of who I was and what my natural tendencies were and why, not based on my experience but based on my wiring, but it also helped me understand other people and why they were not just like me. Now I could look at my friend Kenya and not be like, what is wrong with her? Why does she move so slow at everything? Where I'm over here, like the Energizer bunny, right? Like the hare and the tortoise kind of a thing, you know? Like that's not better. And I needed to understand the value and why and why the Lord created you that way. And also in relationship, what was going to hurt our relationship and what was going to grow our relationship. I tell people all the time, it explained my whole childhood, right? Because you rarely have everybody as the same personality as you in a family. And so very easily, especially like this idea that there's this black sheep or someone that's just different in your family, it's not true. They're just different. The Lord has wired them in a way that is unique to them. And I just think if they understood why they are the way they are, and that's valuable, that's worthy, there's purpose and intention behind it. But there's also purpose and intention in the other person, in your parents and why they're not just like you. I mean, this idea that once you hit teenager years, all of a sudden, you're just going to resent everybody around you and think that everybody else is wrong and you're right. That's just immaturity. That's just an opportunity for them to gain perspective and understanding of the people around them. Because most likely in their upbringing and their relationships before this, they've mostly encountered people that are more similar to them than that are different than them. Or they have assimilated their true person into whatever group actually welcomed them in. And now they have no clue who they are. They think everybody else is an outsider, but that's not even truly them. Right. They developed all these compensators, the relational compensators that Marilyn talks about. It was really good. And being able to sit down with my children and help them pull apart their patterns to show them, okay, this is the way the Lord has made you. He's made you full of humor. You love humor. That is your number one value is for things to be fun and funny. And there's value in that. But when you don't use it the way the Lord intended it and you let your flesh take over, like I'm going to pursue things that I think are funny, even at the expense of somebody else, that's developing your character into a person that is not who you truly are, not who you truly were created to be. And so helping them, I call them the imposter, like the imposter so-and-so, or the real, you know, this is your real identity. I'll just say a name. Daschle. So this is your real identity, Daschle, and this is your imposter, Daschle. Like don't let the imposter come and take over the real you because you're going to feel lost. You're going to feel like you don't belong because your identity is not rooted in who you were created to be. And that goes back to what you were saying. It's like when we allow what happened to us or our natural wiring to now dictate our identity. We don't ever become the real us. And I actually found that the real me is way more, like even, because I was closed off not just to outsiders, but there were way more gates. There was way more self-protection. There were way more walls because I had been so wounded that I realized I don't need this wall and I don't need this wall and I don't need this wall. And so now the walls have been established by God and my family and my person is safe knowing that I've surrendered that to him and yet I can still be free. And there is a looseness that I get to experience about me within my inner circle that even surprises me because I just felt so rigid. But I was so rigid because I was a soldier. I was literally guarding the fortress and the Lord never called me to guard the fortress. He was my protector. And so when I gave that job back to him, which it always belonged to him, I could be, I could experience this freedom in my body, in my mind, in my personality. And so everything started to shift to where there was like way more fun and even with my children I didn't have to be rigid and I didn't have to be the commander because the Lord had already purposed me to be an influence to them. I just had to position myself to be in relationship with them. And what a beautiful thing for children to be able to get to know that process because the process that the Lord has brought me in is the process that we're actively involved in with our children. So they won't have to do it later on in life to figure out what parts of them are relational compensators, what part of them are self-protective mechanisms that they have to utilize as a child, that they have to utilize as an adult, what part of them is truly them. They never have to go through a season of finding themselves. Finding themselves because they know, my children know their love languages, my children know their personality styles, my children know the value in the other person and why the Lord has put a very outgoing person with a very rule-following person and why the Lord has put this very sanguine boy who is very chatty along with kind of very timid, and timid is not the word, but more reserved people and how those personalities work in a family. And so we find value in each other as opposed to, oh, this person is different than me, it's annoying me or it's bothering me or, you know, I don't get them. I just think that giving them that gift of getting to know themselves now, and it protects them from outside influences that say, hey, do you want to go do this thing? They're like, no, because that's not who I am. That's not the person I want to be, that's not who I am. And so whenever I do correction, even if I do correction, especially for like a lie, so you're a truth teller. You don't need to try to like lie in order to get away with something because you're a truth teller. So when you hear you're a truth teller and then you get presented with the opportunity to lie, well, if I'm going to remain true to myself, I'm a truth teller, so I have to tell the truth. And so I've seen that work where I go and confront Malachi, hey, did this happen? Now remember, you're a truth teller. And he'll be like, yeah, I did that. Instead of that self-protective mechanism that says, no, no, no, I didn't do that. Now they hide behind this thing that they thought was going to keep them safe. But what keeps you safe is being yourself, having a solid, firm foundation and identity in who God made you to be. That protects you more than anything else. I think of this buzzword authenticity. Everybody wants to be authentic. That's genuine, true authenticity. It's knowing yourself, not knowing all your compensators, not just knowing how you're naturally wired, all your sinful natures. Those are patterns you've developed to, like you said, protect yourself or fit in or get the things you think you need or want or whatever, or someone told you. Like, you know, like, yeah, I love that. I love that our children can grow up being authentic and knowing themselves, and like you said, protects them from peer pressure, from negative influence. And I get to know the real them. I get to develop a real relationship with them. I don't have to deal with a teenager that's really struggling. They have hormones. They've got emotions. They've got a lot of things they're going through, and they just don't need one more thing that says, you don't know who you are because you've never been taught or shown. You don't know who you are, and you're not known by anyone. You're not known. That's so good. So there's such a desire to be known, and so when you can't even be known inside your home because you feel like they're not safe or they don't know you or they didn't take the time to get to know you, whatever the reasoning is, or it just creates this big gaping hole to now you're going to go find a way to be known. You're going to find people that make you feel known, and it can just lead into so many dangerous situations where you put yourself in, I want somebody to know me. And you never outgrow that. You'll be grown up with all these children running around you, and you're still looking for the same thing, to feel known. You're running around with relational compensators because you're not comfortable with who you are and who you've been made to be because you know that there's growth there to be had, but you don't know how to do it. You don't know why you're not doing it. You have all this information constipation, and you're like, I should be doing better. Like you said, there's shame wrapped up in your identity because you know better, so you should be doing better. You should be doing better, yeah. And the truth is that we just don't always know how to go through the process, and we haven't received the tools that we need that will show us. Like this Marilyn Haushoff, anything I learn, I mean, I've learned a lot, but one of the things I've learned reading her books, like Making God Real to Your Children, which is that as God parents, so you parents, and Empowered, they are really bold. I call them sriracha wrapped in honey. Like, dear heart, she is amazing, and she cuts to the core, but the thing that I needed was that self-awareness that, hey, your fruit is telling on you. The fruit, the relational issues you see in your family, they came from you. The result of your relationship with God. Exactly. My relationship with God, my relationship with my husband, my relationship with them. Like I'm over there, you know, telling them not to yell at each other while I'm yelling at them. You know, like it sounds so ridiculous, but it is, I needed to see that it was my sins that I was making my children carry and operate in, and then getting upset and frustrated with them, that that's what they were doing. Well, that need to be known is ultimately meant by God. Yeah. So when you allow God in, and you see that he truly knows the innermost parts of you, that he, because, I mean, he knows them anyway, but you need to know that he knows them and loves you regardless of them. Yeah. And that's where begins that transformative love that only God can give, is that I don't fake it with God. You know, because we fake it for so long that we even try to fake it with God, knowing that he knows all of us. Right. But we still try, and we put up a good face, and we love the Lord, and we truly do, but we don't let him into the dark parts of us because we think, well, you know, it's just my little secret. It's just my hidden tendencies. It's just my, and the Lord's like, let me in there. Let, like, the need to be known, again, is just that ultimately is meant by God, and we are conduits of God's love. And so therefore, in our children, they need to know that we know them fully, and therefore the Lord knows them fully. And we love them, knowing even their weak areas, and that the Lord loves them even more. Even more. And so then you can begin to, because otherwise it's like, well, this is a part of me, and so they lock down, and then they, like, they don't want to change it because they think, you know, it's just a difference in personalities. Right. No, but there's so much more. And so when we let God know us, then we invite our children to open up and let us know them. But we have to be intentional. That's exactly what I was thinking. I was like, that takes intentionality, and that's what I realized with one of my kids, is that, you know, he was acting out because in trying to get attention in the wrong ways because he did not feel known. And I didn't clue into it because I know him. I can tell you, I've known this boy. All about him. Right, I've seen every part. There's not anything about this kid I don't know. But he didn't feel that way. He didn't feel known. He didn't feel known, and that took me being intentional in pursuing a relationship with him, unlike what I had before, right? It's kind of this idea that people buck at, but yet we do it in our own way. Well, the father can just come. His sole responsibility is to go work and provide for the family. That's it. If he's putting a roof over his kids' heads and providing food for their bellies, then it's kind of an old mentality, right? And people through generations have been like, no, that's not what fatherhood's about. Well, you know, that's not what motherhood's about either. It's just providing their basic needs, being their transporter, being their, you know, taxi driver, their chef, their laundress, like, you know, their housekeeper. That's not what they are either. Like, we are their first real relationship, and the relationship we have with them will impart and dictate so much of the relationships they have outside of us. Right. That's a huge calling, and I praise the Lord that he gives us tools and grace and direction and strategy. Like, you know, we've talked so many times, like, what do I do? And you're just like, the Lord is going to give you strategy, you know, and really sitting with the Lord and asking him, how do I move forward in, like, I just see brokenness all around me. What do I do? How do I move forward? That's why this is all theory, because ultimately the strategy is so unique to the individual. The strategy is so unique to that child, to the parent, to the family dynamic. And so I remember Marilyn going into one of her YouTube videos, and she's like, if you're asking me for the how-to, you're missing it. And I was like, oh, gosh, because there was like, well, how do I do this? And she's like, you don't do anything. You let the Lord tell you what to do. You let the Lord direct your steps. Because what works for one of my children, it will hurt and hinder my other child. And so, you know, the tools, and there's so much theory behind this, is that the tool is partner with the Holy Spirit, because he will show you strategy specifically for that child, for that wound, for that household, for that season even. That season is, you know, what you did last year won't be effective this year. And so a lot of times the parenting books that we have found to not be helpful, it's because there's so much strategy, general strategy about what you should be doing, when in reality there's unique strategy. Because if you're known, then the things are deeply connected to you. If you're truly known, then the strategy is personalized, perfectly personalized for that individual. All right, well, we're going to stop here, because we could just keep going on and on. This is our heart, this is our passion, this is our process of learning and growing with you. And, you know, we pray that you're doing it in community, and we pray that you are doing it with the Lord's leading. And we're just going to pray real quick and bless you, and then we're going to sign off. So Lord, we just thank you so much for your goodness. We thank you that you love us so well, and that your love is abounding, and you desire to show us that in ourselves and in our family, and for us to be vessels of that abounding love everywhere we go. But we need your strategy. We need you to show us. We need to sit in your presence. We need to slow down. We need to be intentional. Help us to do that, Lord. Holy Spirit, just lead us into all understanding. As we open your word, just breathe life into us and our situations and our circumstances. Bless those that are listening. You know what they mean more than we do, and you know what they're going through, and we know that there is blessing and favor for them, even amidst the hardness. In Jesus' name, amen.