Gary Harris

Keith Marshall, the host of the One More Round Podcast, is interviewing Gary Harris, the commander of VFW Post 776 in Radford. Gary is a Vietnam War veteran and a respected member of the community. They discuss Gary's health, his faith, and his experiences growing up in Radford in the 50s. They also talk about Gary's decision to join the military during the Vietnam War and his training as an MP. Gary shares his memories of flying for the first time and receiving orders to go to Vietnam. Hey, welcome to One More Round Podcast. I'm your host as always, Keith Marshall. Today we're doing something really special. It's brand new to me because I have never actually done an interview on my podcast. Now a lot of you have been telling me, hey, you need to have guests on your podcast. And I've been wanting to do that, but I have to be honest, I've been a little chicken because I'm not sure how this will go. But today, I have a really special guest on my podcast. His name is Gary Harris, many of you know Gary. Gary's the commander of VFW Post 776 here in Radford. He's a Vietnam War veteran. And I really, a lot of people know and love Gary and they know a lot about him, but I wanted to go a little deeper with him today. And I wanna share with you one of my good friends here in Radford, somebody who I think that we can all learn a little bit from. And I think we all wanna know a little bit more about because he does a lot of special things in the community. Now Gary, I'm gonna ask you a few questions here and we're gonna get into this. I wanna tell you ahead of time, I'm sorry that you're my guinea pig here on the One More Round Podcast. You're the first one, you're probably the best guest I could have, but you may not have the best host to ask you questions today because this is a brand new art to me. I mean, I'm no Megyn Kelly, that's for sure. But I'm gonna do my best here. So I wanna thank you for, first of all, agreeing to sit down with me. How's things going for you today? You're doing pretty well. I'm doing good. Take a lot of medicine, but I'm doing good. Now you had a scare back a few years ago. How's your health since all that happened? Since I've changed the way I live and my health has been great. Had no problems, except a minor cold here and there. So you say you changed the way you live. How'd you change the way you live? Well, I know God saved my life and gave me another chance, so. You're not gonna let that go to waste. I quit drinking right there on the spot. Never touched another drop of alcohol now in almost four years. And tried to do a good deed every day and live my life the way God would want me to. That's awesome. And I have been giving out these little cross pens. You've given me a couple of those cross pens. And I'm working on 7,000 right now. 7,000. Now, I know I've learned this kind of from you here recently, Gary, you're definitely a man of faith. You go to Compassion Church? Is that where you go to church at? Yes. Okay. I know Brother Chandler's a really good pastor, really great man, and that's a great, definitely a great ministry going on there in West Radford. So faith is an important part of your life right now. Have you seen your outlook on life change since you made that move? Oh, definitely. Yeah. My finances, I used to pay about $250 a month tithes. Now I'm up to $700. So you're giving back according to what God gave you, huh? Right. You're tithing, that's awesome. And you know, God has a way of giving us a whole lot more back than what we give him. I found that out. We might give him 10%, but we give him 40 or 50% back. Really? He promised us that, and he always has honored that with me, I know. So Gary, I wanted to just kind of get into your life, and I want to tell my listeners, I don't know how far I'm gonna get on one podcast today. This might be a couple podcasts, at least I hope it is, because I know you have a very interesting story. Now, I know we talked earlier, you told me that you were born right here in the city of Radford, 1944. Yes. What was it like growing up in Radford in the 50s? Well, I lived on 2nd Street, and I went to Kiernan Barnett School. Me too, me too. And I could walk home on dinner break, and a good friend of mine, R.C. Hall, lived across the street from me, and me and him would get in a fight just about every day coming home. What would you fight about? Just whatever boys could come up with? I had two brothers at home that helped me through school and everything, and my dad was a carpenter, and when I had time, I would go with him sometimes and hand him a hammer or saw whenever he needed it. Was your dad like mine was, that you spent about three-fourths of your time running for tools and bringing back the wrong one? Yep. And, but he was a good carpenter and built a lot of houses in Radford, and I got to go with him one time to meet John Dalton. He was doing some work in his house, and that's where I met Governor Dalton at that time. For those of you who don't know Governor Dalton, I don't remember which governor of Virginia he was, but he was elected to, I believe, the House of Representatives, or House of Delegates, and then went on to become a governor of the state of Virginia, really, really cool thing. I know growing up, obviously, we have a middle school named after him, but he was a pretty prestigious fella. He was talked about a lot here in Radford when I grew up. So you grew up in the 50s, and what was, you know, when you look at Radford now, and, you know, I see pictures of Radford during the 50s, and they're just pictures to me, so I can't really relate to it, and I know my dad grew up in the 50s in Radford, too, but I'm just wondering, what was Radford like? I mean, is it anything now like it was then? I mean, is it a totally different environment? No, everything's completely changed, and especially the electronics, and social media, and all that, there was none of that. I remember having party lines, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah. Pick up the phone, we'll make a call, somebody might be talking, and you'd get a call. Your neighbor might be on the same line. Yeah, yeah, that's great. I worked for a telephone company, and a lot of the old guys would talk about those party lines and things that they did, and, you know, how you'd have three or four families on the same line. That's kind of crazy to think about. So you grew up in the city of Radford, and you said your dad was a carpenter. What about your mom? She stayed home. Stayed home, took care of your kids? And, I don't know whether I ought to say this or not, but my mom was a Pentecostal holy roller, what they used to call it. Oh, yeah. And she didn't want TV. I couldn't go to movies. I couldn't go to the swimming pool. Right after we moved, we lived on the river up at Riverview. I couldn't go fishing. She ought to say, one of those fish will pull you in. If you can't go to the swimming pool, you'll drown. And, you know, she always had an excuse. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I made it through okay. Now, what were your, did you have boys, girls, sisters, brothers? I had two brothers. Two brothers. Both of them were older than me. Then my oldest brother, he was in the Korean War. Really? Yeah, that was one of the reasons that I joined when I did. Do you remember when your brother left for, to go ahead in the service? Not really. I remember he would come in on leave, and I got a picture of standing with his 48 Chevrolet. Oh, yeah? And, but I don't really remember him leaving or coming home. It was just like one night he wasn't there, and the next night he was, so. I can remember my mom talking about her older brother. He was in the Korean War, and when he left, him coming by the school and visiting her and her other brother and saying goodbye. That was a vivid memory that she had when her brother went off to war. You know, so you grew up in, went to Raven High School, and in 1969, you joined the U.S. Army. Yes. Is that correct? Now, what made you decide to join the military in the middle of the Vietnam War? Well, I was working at the Foundry after I got out of high school, and I got married too young. My wife that I married, I was, you know, 18, 19, and she was 16, and things wasn't going good. And we had a baby, and then we got divorced and had a hot, dirty job at the Foundry, and I knew I didn't want to stay there, and I always wanted to be a police officer. So somebody said, well, join the Army, and get that other year, and get your MP training. That'll help you when you get out. That's what I did. Right. And my brother was a small guy, as small as I was, and I thought, well, if he can go through Korea, you know, I can go through whatever. Right. And people was telling me about basic training, how hard it was, and all that. I did play one football year at Rafferty in the eighth grade, and that's when we had, in August, two-a-days. Oh, yeah, we had that when I was in school. No water and all of that. We did have water. And I said. They invented water in the 80s. And I, you know, I said, if my brother can do it, and then I can go through baseball practice, basic can't be no harder than that. Right. And. What'd you think? Were you right? Yeah, I didn't think it was too bad. Now, do you remember, where did you take your training? Where did you go when you got in there? Fort Bragg. Fort Bragg, okay. And you, did you take your MP training there? You were an MP? No, I did, you basically trained at Fort Bragg, and then the MPs were trained at Fort Gordon, Georgia. So, I went down there and stayed for 12 weeks. And did your MP training. What was that like? Hard? Well, I enjoyed it. Yeah. You know, we learned how to shoot the pistol. Right. Take it apart and clean it, and drive the Jeep, and paperwork, a lot of it was paperwork, going to court, and. Now, had you been outside of Radford much before you joined there? No. Was it a different world to you, to get out there with all different people from different parts of the country? Never been on an airplane. And. What was your first time flying like? Were you scared? I was going from run-up to Atlanta, Georgia. Oh, yeah. And, of course, back then, they had two propeller. Prop planes. Prop planes, yeah. Yeah, it was kind of exciting. Yeah, kind of a new world to you. Now, do you remember when you got your orders and you found out that you were heading to Vietnam? Do you remember getting those? Yes, and I went to Oakland, California, to stay until we got shipped out, and. How did they ship you? How did you? Well, we stayed there for about a week, and I met Ricky. Ricky was a big, gray-headed boy from Fort Chisell that played football for Fort Chisell. Ricky, what was his last name? I can't remember. No. Ricky from Fort Chisell, all right. Yeah. Was he working on a farm, or? I don't know what he did. He was a big, old country boy. Yep, but he was an outstanding quarterback for Fort Chisell. Oh, yeah, okay. And then, one day, we got our names called, and we thought this was it. Well, we got orders to go back to Fort Lee, Virginia. Really? And I thought, man, this is awesome. So, I went to Fort Lee. So, you were actually glad you wasn't heading to NAM at that point? Well, yeah. Of course. I didn't know, whatever the Army had planned, I was gonna go along with it. It ended at Fort Lee. You know, it's just a four-hour drive, and I could come home on weekends, and I bought me a car, a little Volkswagen, and went down there, and I don't know how long we would have stayed, except that's when I met Steve Traynor, my best friend in the Army. Okay. And he was from Michigan, and we were just about the exact opposites on everything. Like, you know. What do you mean? He liked Detroit lines, and I liked the Redskins, and things like that, but he was a ladies' man, and we were out on patrol one night. We worked second shift, and we had a brand-new Chevrolet car, patrol car, and we had just had a lesson about do not scratch these cars up, and I remember when we went out. Now, let me ask you, who gave you that lesson? Was that, like, a sergeant? Oh, yeah, first sergeant. Okay. And so we went out, and, you know, Fort Lee is, they have a lot of inventory buildings and all of this, and they had a whole row, maybe 30 buildings, and our last duty that night was to make sure every door was locked. Well, he met two girls somewhere, and they drove up in this parking lot, and we was talking and talking and talking. Remember, this is a G show. And so he said, we'll meet y'all at a place there in Fort Lee there, and after we get off from work. So we sat there and went to sleep. First sergeant called me about 5.30. He said, y'all got all them buildings checked? I said, we're doing it right now. I took him up to this end. I told him I'd meet him down at the other end, or meet him in the middle, and I backed up about 20 miles an hour and run into a telephone pole. Oh, no. And I had to get on the radio and call the sergeant, and I told him I had an accident with the car, and he said, well, bring it in, and we'll try to smooth it out, and I remember telling him, I said, we won't smooth this out. He said, why? I said, the bumper's in the back seat. Oh, man. They come and pulled it in, and the second thing I did that night was when you're off duty, you gotta clear your weapon in the firing barrel. Take the clip out of it, and pull the trigger in the firing barrel. Well, and you can't do somebody else's weapon. Well, Steve told me, he said, I'm going up in chains. You can't turn my weapon in. So I put it under my arm and pulled mine out of the holsters and cleared it, and shot it, and it clicked. I just took his and clicked, and it went off. You forgot to clear it. Everybody's come running out the building, wondering what's going on, so we got two Article 15s, and we had to stay in our barracks the rest of the time we was there, and then it wasn't just a few days, we had orders to go to Vietnam. So basically, you lost your mind over a couple girls, and you wound up in Vietnam. Yeah, but we had more fun before that. Our orders were to go to Fort Bliss, Texas, to Vietnamese language school. Oh, boy. Now, I had a hard time getting through English, and Steve was about the same way, so when we got down there, we were treated just like college students. We could live off the base if we wanted to, and being at Fort Bliss, Juarez, Mexico was right across the bridge, and me and Steve were the only two privates in a room full of 20 officers. Oh, wow. And they had a Vietnamese teacher teaching Vietnamese, and she told me, she said, you'll never speak Vietnamese because of your accent. Because of your southern accent. So I stayed in school. I learned how to say stop, and a few other choice words, and I got my certificate upstairs, my graduation framed up. Oh, yeah. And then we... So how do you say stop in Vietnamese? Đông lạ. Đông lạ. And before we graduated, I got married. Okay. To one of the senior readers in El Paso. Oh, boy. I think there's been some songs about it. Talk about going south. 10 days before we got orders to go to Vietnam, she said, let's get married. I said, okay. Steve was my best man. I don't remember it. So you go to Vietnam. Did they fly you to Vietnam? Yeah, I went to Oakland, California, and got on this big jet plane, and commercial plane, and they treated us real good on the plane, and I remember when we was getting ready to land, looking out at the ground, and I happened to read this on Facebook from another veteran. There was all kinds of ponds, and man, I said, look at all them fishing ponds down there, and then as soon as you land, and that door opens, you feel the humidity, and the heat, and the smell. Where did you land? What part of Vietnam? Binh Hoa. Binh Hoa. That's at Long Binh. That was probably one of their biggest airbases. Right. It was not too far from Saigon. So you're in Vietnam, and you're an MP, and so were you assigned to that city, or another place? No, we had to just go wait until we were new guys, and we got to do all our paperwork, and beneficiaries. My life beneficiaries signed up to go to my wife. The one you just married in? In El Paso. In El Paso. And we were told we would not get letters for 30 days, so the first 30 days, I was feeling good, and I was riding with this sergeant while I was waiting on to get my duty station. I was just riding around with him in the city, just to get a feel of Binh Hoa, and he got a call on his radio to go to this certain barracks, and the barracks were built about four feet up off the ground. It was kind of sandy soil, and somebody said there was something up underneath one of the barracks, and so we got there and looked up there, and the sergeant said, "'Crawl up under there and see what it is.'" And what I saw was a young GI on his hands and knees with his shirt sleeve pulled up, and the needle stuck in his arm, and he was hard as a rock. He's dead. I went back out and told the sergeant, he said, "'Go up there and try to drag him out.'" And I refused his orders. I said, "'I am not going back up there "'and touch him again.'" That's the first dead body I had ever seen. Right, in your life. And I had a body. You got OD'd or something under the... Because one of the classes we had was about the drugs in Vietnam, and said, you know, you don't know what you're getting, and, you know, stay away from them. Right, right. So you, so, you know, you're an MP, and did you stay in that particular town long time? I finally got my orders to go to the 199th Light Infantry Brigade, which weirded me, because what's an infantry unit doing with an MP? Right, right. And so when we got there, and, you know, had to go through the introduction and all of that, and one of the sergeants that's asked me, asked our group, said, "'Anybody here a race car driver?' And I raised my hand, because I'd done a lot of drag racing before I went in. And he said, "'Well, you're our driver.'" And I got to drive that car. It was a B-100. Okay. Armored car with about five foot tires on it. Found out they were lead lined, so they wouldn't get shot out. Had the .50 caliber machine gun on the back. Twin 60s in the turret. And I got to drive with my head out. And I had an M79, that's a grenade launcher. Okay. And so I drove that for about six months on convoys. And loved it. The two guys that were with me were from Florida and Alabama. So we're three southern boys. And we always had, we were the lead vehicle. Okay. My buddy there was, Sergeant was the convoy commander. I gotcha. So. Now, is this something y'all did daily? No. Why were you doing a convoy? What was the point? Go out to all the fire bases and take supplies. Okay. Like ammunition and? Ammunition, seed rations, water, just whatever they needed. Ever in trouble on the road or? Just about every other time. Yeah, like what? They would, you could see the, they would try to stop the first vehicle. Cause they was trying to stop the convoy. So they could get. So I was told, do not ever stop. And, or stop in the road. I would always pull over and let the convoy keep going. And we would lay down the, the fire. The twin 60s could put out a lot. 50 caliber could shoot down a six inch tree. Now give me, give me an answer to what you was running. What, why would you be firing? What were you firing at? Mostly just the gun flashes. Okay. They would be somebody in the tree line or something like that. Fire on the convoy? Yeah. And, but we usually always had a, a helicopter. One side or the other that would probably. Kind of trailing you. Take it out. Yeah. And so nothing we, I never had any, I've got a picture of where the glass that I'm supposed to look out, got hit and shattered. But, and I heard the, but you know, well it's bouncing off the car, but, kind of got used to it. Yeah. And that's something you did for five months, you said? Yeah. Yeah. Now after that, tell me some more. Where did you go? What would a typical day for you entail? You get up in the morning? Well, every day was, was the same. Okay. I mean, there's no difference. Kind of mundane? Only reason I knew what day it was or, the DOTA knowledge would give you out countdown calendars. The who? Donut Dollies. Donut Dollies. What is that? I've never heard of that. They were young girls with the USO, that if you was in a, you know, big town or something, they would have come around and give out donuts and stuff like it. Make you happy. Make you homesick, is what they did. Yeah. And, uh, I got mine upstairs for you. Every day, you'd color in a little block. It was kind of marking off the days to you, wasn't it? Marking off the days. Everybody counting for a year, is that what the year is? Yeah. Okay. So everybody knew what day they was supposed to leave on. Okay. But, during this time, is when Steve and I got separated. Okay. When I went to the 199th. The best friend that you got in all the trouble with. He went to another MP unit. And we stayed in touch. And, but we never served at the same, same place. Right. And, that was about it for that. And, and then the 199th had been in Vietnam for two or three years. So, their whole unit got to come home. Okay. And when I heard, you know, we're going home. So I thought, well, I've been here for six months. I get to go home. And, no. Sent me to, you know, another, that's when I was sent up to Chula, which up is in Northern. I was in the South, and I now was going up to the Northern part. Wasn't too awful far from the DMC. Okay. And, but I was still an MP. And, in the meantime and all of that, I didn't hear anything from my wife. Oh, now, okay. Now we're back to, we're back to Texas. A whole month went by, and I got a letter from mom and my brothers, and never heard a word from her. And, I had seen, actually seen, since I was an MP, and I'd go to some barracks, and some GI would have killed himself over a Dear John letter. Right. Or shoot their toe off. That way they would get to come home. Yes. And, so I had to live through that whole year not knowing what was going on. Right. And, she was getting a check. And, so I went to the finance and told them what was going on. And, only thing they could do was change the address on the check, and I had it sent to my mom and dad. Now did the check come in your name, or both your names, or? Her name. Oh, her name, okay. And, I'll skip ahead a little bit. When I did get home, I had about six checks waiting on me. And, I drove all the way down to Fort Lee to take the checks back. And, the guy down there looked at him, I told him what happened. He said, sign her name on them, cash them, have a good time. That's what I did. Did you ever see her again? No. Never saw her again. That might have been the best thing that ever happened to you. Well, I found out that I wasn't the only one that happened to. Around any of the Army bases, it was like a scam. I got you. Today, they scam us on Facebook. Yeah. There's always been a scam, hasn't there? Yeah. There's always someone looking to get something for nothing. So, you're in Vietnam, you're an MP. Is there anything, while you were there, that stood out to you, that moved you, that changed you in any way? Something that you would want to talk about? Well, you know, I didn't really take things too serious. Right. Until I would see these grunts, that they call them. All the young guys carrying these 65 pound rucksacks, and they would be taken out in the jungle. And they might walk through those jungles for a week before they get to come back in. Right. Or, wade across the rivers and fight up the mountains to where one of the strongholds were, up on the mountain. And, those guys were real heroes, and the fighting men in Vietnam. Yeah. You know, we had had the cooks, and the hospitals, and the mechanics, and all that. You couldn't do without them. Right. But, the fighting men in Vietnam was the true heroes of that. Yeah. And, the body count was a big thing. And, you know, we've had a boy that just lives two blocks from here, got killed 14 days when he was in there. Hmm. And, Who's that? Phillip Long. Okay. Married to Shuri Long. Yeah. He'd been over our, he had just gotten married, and she was pregnant, and he was pregnant, she was pregnant, and he never did know it. And, 14 days in the Adrine Valley, he got killed. And, that was when Colonel Grayson was in that battle. And, Colonel Grayson was flying a helicopter, a Cobra, gunship. And, he got to read the death list. And, he said, I know that boy. And, I was, well, after I got to shoot live, I was on the road. And, really all I had to do was just like a traffic cop. We'd have convoys, we'd lead them through the town. Right. We was, there was a village right outside of Chulai Base, called Anton, which was a huge village. And, I know a lot of the officers in town had girlfriends down there, and they'd go down there, but you never stayed outside the wire after dark. And, so we was just doing our patrols, and one morning we were going out, and I had a QC partner. And, Vietnamese partner, and he lived down in the village. But, you know, they trusted him enough to be one of the policemen's and match up with us as we did our routine. Right. And, our desk sergeant told us that they got word that there was a deserter down in the village, that he had married the, he had been a deserter for six years, and he married the village chief's daughter. Now this is an American GI that deserted? American GI's a deserter. Okay. And, they said if you come across him, bring him in dead or alive. And, we did our regular routine that day, you know, driving just like a cop would do downtown, walk the streets or go to donut shop or something. And then coming back in about six, my partner said, I know where he's at. Cause, you know, living down there. He was a mayor, yeah. So I said, well, let's go get him. And, parked the Jeep. And one thing we was told not to do ever was leave your Jeep by itself. Especially with your weapon in there. Yes. And I did both. I'm guessing you did. And we walked down this little alleyway and the hoochies over there were made out of grass and straw and whatever they could get. And, my partner was in front and he had his M16 and he knocked the door down and there was four guys sitting there playing cards. And, the G.I. had still had his uniform on. And so I went over and asked him. He's been deserted for six years. Six years. Why would he still have his uniform on? Because he was coming on base when they was lining up convoys. He'd come in and get coordinates of where the convoys were. So he's not only a deserter, he's a traitor. Traitor. Okay. And at night time we would get mortar rounds and everything. He was hitting the- Hitting them all. And, so you- Killing some of our guys. Yeah, so you, so you knocked down, he knocks down the door and you find him in there. So, I told him I was taking him in. The only good thing I did was feel around his waist and he had a 38 pistol stuck in his waist. And I got, got the pistol out. And I was walking behind him. My partner was behind me. We got to the jeep and, the army jeep. You gotta lift up the front seat to get in the back. And when I did that, he got in the back and he jumped out the other side. And he took off running. And, he knew where he was going and I didn't and I couldn't catch him. And my partner was behind me. And, I throwed my helmet at his feet trying to trip him up. And, I told him if he didn't stop, I was gonna shoot him. And he jumped over this little fence and it was a pick pin. And, I stopped and he jumped out the other side and was going up this little bank. And, like I said before, God knows I tried to shoot him in the legs and hit him square in the back and killed him. And. Now you, you just told me at the beginning, one of your first days, you come across a dead body and you didn't want to touch it. Now, now you've actually had to. Well, I went back and called the, called my sergeant. I said, well, I got him. I said, he said, what do you mean? I said, I got that deserter. Happy and screaming and all that. And I said, he said, you bringing him in? I said, no, he's dead. Send somebody down here. And that's when the medics showed up and the CID guys. What's a CID? Criminal Investigation Department. And I got a picture they took of where I shot him. And it actually shows my helmet laying there. And. So that had to, that had to really mess with you. You know, it had to be difficult. Well, when I got back to my barracks, captain called me in and said, you're under house arrest. And that, I couldn't understand why. Of course, I know they do it to police officers now. If you shoot somebody, they put you under arrest or something. So I stayed in the barracks for weeks. And one day he called me in the office and said, Harris, you're doing a good job. Now forget about it. But did you? And. Cause you forget about it. I don't. To this day, I haven't forgot it. But there's more to that story after I got home. And so they transferred me off the road down to the POW camp. It was just like a little prison camp where we kept prisoners. Now these are Vietnamese prisoners. Most of them were hardcore prisoners. And they had their little 12 by 12 fenced in with the roof on it and laying on the sand. That's all they had. But most of them were happy to be there. They got free meals and a place to sleep. Three yachts and a car. Cause they'd been out in the jungles forever. Now were these like Viet Cong or what were they? It was all a mixture. I got a picture of a mountain yard. That was, people lived up in the mountains and they were still living like. Primitive. Yeah, primitive. And usually when you had one, they'd take in one, they would take in the whole family. And we got one that, they said he was 101 years old. I never thought he was a prisoner. What could he do? Right. But I got a picture of him and the family. And so, stayed there at the POW camp. Really had it made. We would take some of the prisoners to the medics and get checked out and stuff like that. One prisoner, which I've got a couple pictures of, could speak English as good as I could. He went to school at UCLA. Really? And he was a doctor. And why was he in prison? He gave up. He said he was tired of living in the jungle. So he gave up. And matter of fact, he gave me a penicillin shot. Really? He was just like one of the other guys. Yeah. And he'd been Americanized. So I would say that he's probably dead now, after they took over. And I stayed there till my time was, I didn't have about two months left to go. And I got word that Steve had received a head injury. He was on one of the fire bases. This is your best friend from Michigan. Yep. So, July had two great big hospitals. One surgical and another hospital. And so I went to see him. And he was laying in bed and his head was bandaged up like a mummy. And somebody said he wasn't gonna make it. I went outside and sat for a little while. And the doctor come out there and said he passed away. Now, he was injured from some sort of mortar round or something into the convoy? Well, when you get mortar rounds, and it was on his birthday, and he was having a birthday party, and he was running from one place to the other and got hit by another vehicle or something. I wasn't, I don't know exactly what happened. But, you know, the friendship you make in situations like that are pretty special friendships. Oh, yeah. And that's why I got this tattoo. That's why I make all these praying soldiers. Every time I cut one out, I said, you know, Steve, it's for you. Yeah. And I haven't forgot him at all. And so I stayed there. And one morning, I didn't wake up. One of my buddies dragged me in the Jeep and took me to one of the hospitals. And I had a 103 temperature for three days. The three nurses that took care of me kept me packed in ice. And I was in the hospital for three days. I wish to this day that I knew what their names were. But after I come to, they thought it was a malaria, but it wasn't. And this leg was kind of paralyzed. But they would joke with me about how cold and frizzled up I was. And when I got better, I went back to the POW camp and I didn't have it. What was wrong with you? Did they determine what it was? They didn't know. I got the doctor's report from 71 from July. This leg still bothers me. Here not long ago when I went to the doctor, I took the doctor report. And they just looked at it and said, some doctor wrote this, of course they couldn't read it. And so I stayed there till we come home. Now let me ask you something before we talk about you coming home. There was obviously a lot of turmoil in the country about the Vietnam War, protests, things like that. Were you guys aware of what was going on in the United States, how bad it was as far as the anti-Vietnam thing that was going on? I mean, was you? Yeah, I wasn't. I don't think any of us were. It was on the plane, but they told us if we had severely enclosed, change into them. Which is unusual. I mean, you know, World War II, Korea, those soldiers come home as heroes. Oh yeah, every war did. And we was flying into Seattle, Washington, which is even today a bastion of liberalism. Yeah, whatever. Liberal state or something. And I flew from there to Atlanta, and I didn't have any clothes, so I just had the uniform on. But I got in Atlanta one night, and the flight to Roanoke didn't leave until that morning, so I sat at the bar all night. And I never had any problems. So you get back to Radford. What was that like? I mean, it has to be a cultural shock to go from Vietnam back to, you know, 1970s Radford. When did you, what was the date you come back? Well, I got to come home, but I didn't get to stay. Oh, really? I had my rest of my three years to serve. Oh, I got it, yeah. So I had to go to Fort Raleigh, Kansas. And if you've never been to Kansas in the wintertime, you don't want to go. I mean, out there. You didn't consider re-upping back for Vietnam, did you? Oh, no. Not that bad. No. And the pay, too, I think I was getting like $75 a month. And, but when I did come home, before I went there, I bought me a car. Oh, okay. I bought me a 69 Nova, had a 396 engine in it, and I run it on the drag strip out there, and it was pretty fast. It would, but I would go to three-day leave just about every weekend. And I would drive home. On a three-day weekend from Kansas? Didn't you enjoy driving a car, or did you? And then that's when I met Patsy. Oh, okay, yeah. And, of course, she was what, 16, something like that. And working at Kenny Burger. Oh, yeah, I remember Kenny Burger. So we dated every time I'd come in. And then one time I'd come in and found out she'd done got married. Oh, wow. And I didn't see her again until just about two years ago when I seen her in Walmart, didn't we? We dated about every day till she died, so. Now, you get out of the service, you come back to Radford. Yep. What'd you do? Did you tell me you went to the foundry? They gave me my job back. Really? I'd seen art and everything. Huh. So, now you mentioned to me something that surprised me the other day when we were talking about it. You said that there was a lot of people at the foundry that were also Vietnam vets, but none of you knew that each other was in the Army. Tell me why. You didn't talk about it. You didn't say that you was an Army veteran. You didn't say that you was a Vietnam veteran. Why not? Just the way society was, that everybody seemed to be against you. The World War II guys in the VFW wouldn't allow us to join. Really? Yeah, because at that time, the VFW guys thought they're the ones that started it. They didn't think that Vietnam was a war, so we just couldn't join. I think... Now, let me ask you, you've been to Vietnam. I know you mentioned who you thought were the real heroes, but I think most people would agree with what you're saying, but also would emphasize anybody that serves in the Army or the Marines or any of the services are heroes to us, but specifically, men that went over to Vietnam and served in whatever role, whether they were a cook or the police, they certainly played a much higher price for freedom than any of us. So, you've been to Vietnam. You've been forced to deal with situations that I'm sure will never leave you. You've lost your best friend. You've been forced to do something to take care of a guy that was a traitor, and you've dealt with that all these years. You know, how did that make you feel? You come back and you can't even tell someone that you've been in the service. Even other Army people, it sounds like, other people in the military, VFW, World War II, they don't want anything to do with you. I mean, how did that make you feel? Can you describe it or? That's when I started drinking. Really? And just forgot about it. Shortly after I got back, my Nova was a pretty good-looking car and it was loud. I was going through college and there was this blonde-headed girl, white shorts on. She waved at me. I circled the block and went back. She said, I like that car. I said, you wanna drive? It was a four-speed. And she drove it as good as I could. And she started going to the dragstrips with me and she could change spark plugs. She used to work at a gas station and she was from Univista. And she was on the very first basketball cheerleading squad at Rapid College. And one weekend, we went to Sparta-North Carolina and got married. Oh, okay. And she never knew I was in Vietnam. So you actually dated her, you got married and you never told her? No. Only reason she found out, one morning I woke up. We had bought the house between Arlington Avenue and Wadsworth in the triangle where the little house is. I bought that. And one morning I couldn't move hardly. She called the ambulance and this right leg, just like in Vietnam, was acting up. And went to Rapid Hospital. Dr. Davis and Dr. Lee and Alderfer and all of them looked at me and sent me to Roanoke Memorial. I had 14 spinal taps while I stayed down there. Wow. They couldn't find anything. And started giving me prednisone and it finally went away before I could get back to normal. But I gained up to about 230 pounds. All for prednisone? Yeah. So, I mean, so I still want to get back to this, Gary, because you tell me you dated this girl, you did all these things with her, you literally got married, you bought a house together and you have not told her that you went to Vietnam. I mean, wouldn't you consider that a pretty significant part of your life? I mean, tell me honestly, why didn't you tell her? You thought, did you think that she'd lose interest in you or you'd scare her off? Well, she was a college student, just like all the protesters. Oh, I got you. And I didn't bring it up. And the only reason she knew then, I wound up at the VA hospital. So she found out then. What was her reaction? Nothing. I mean, you know, she was just trying to take care of me. She was, yeah. And then we sold our house and bought a house over in Forest Park. Oh, yeah. Whereabouts? Where in Forest Park? I think it's 102 Forest Park. Forest Avenue? Chinwood Drive. On what? Chinwood. I think that's what it was. Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about. And lived there and I was still working at the foundry and she was a good softball player. So that's when I had the foundry. And Mr. Coleman gave us enough money to buy complete outfits. Mr. Coleman, he was around the foundry? He was the plant manager. Plant manager, okay. And so we had really good outfits, baseball uniforms, softball uniforms. Foundry was a big deal then. It was a big deal when I was a kid. Yeah. I mean, it'd be unusual if someone in your family did not work at the foundry. You know, it was just such an integral part of the city. I had 40 years there. 40 years. And we won the city league twice, beating out, Big Al was coaching the hospital team. Big Al. And Poonie, I think, was coaching the Pizza Hut team. For people who don't know, Poonie's ran the pizza house and, well, the pizza was, man. My wife and I was just talking Sunday night. We got out of church last night and I said, you know, I wish I could get one of them big old large Poonie pizzas. But that was some good times. Yeah. And. You still drinking at this point? No, I haven't drank since. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, at this point, what we're describing, you said you come home from Vietnam and to not think about it, you start drinking. Every day. You were still drinking then? Every night. Did that affect your life any? I lost my wife over that. Over drinking? I would have, most of the girls on the softball team were high school girls, I won't name any of them. But they were all good softball players, but the high school didn't have softball then. Oh, didn't have real softball. But we would have parties. I had a swim pool out back. We would have parties every weekend during the summer. And. We had a bar. They would all drink. And I never thought nothing about it until one night about 11 o'clock. Most of them would spend the night on weekends. Right. And doorbell rung. And it was a policeman with one of the moms. And she wanted her daughter. And her daughter had left with two guys. And I told that policeman, I said, if you want to come in, look, you can. And he didn't, so. I think I. Found out how close I was to getting in some trouble, so kind of cut that down a little bit. Right, right, right. So, you know, we talked about one of the things you said that really bothered you and it took you years to deal with was the GI that you had to shoot that was running from you. How did you deal with that? How did you get past that? I know you said you still think about it, but. For a long time, when I was working at the foundry, you know, you had a gate you had to go through. And if the cops had a warrant for somebody, they would stand there at the gate and wait till you come out. I got it. And it always bothered me that I knew this guy was from Pennsylvania and thought maybe his parents might have found out that I was the one that shot him and maybe trying to say I killed him or something. You thought there was going to be some sort of criminal retribution towards you. Yeah, and. So you literally, it sounds to me like, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds to me like when you'd see those cops at the gate, you always wondered if they were going to be there for you. And I turned around and walked all the way down to the shell plant to get out and wait till they leave before I come back and get my car. And it bothered me for a long time. And I told Colonel Grayson about it. And I told Colonel Cox about it from Dublin. And. What did they say? They said, you know, to forget about it. That's what the captain told me, forget about it. Or I couldn't forget about it because it bugged me. I wanted to know who it was. Right. Colonel Grayson worked at the Pentagon for three years before he retired. And he said, well, I'll find out. And he come back and told me one day, he said, they've got it blocked or something. They don't, wouldn't put out the names of the deserters that were killed. As far as you know, his family probably thought he just died in Vietnam. Yeah. Well, that's what I was told. I called, I found out my captain's name and he was Captain Timberlake and he lived in Georgia. I called him and when I asked him about, what can you tell me about that incident? And he said, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. That was my first clue that they're covering up something. So I traced down my lieutenant. He lived in Michigan. I called him one day and I thought, well, I'll get to talking to him before I come right out and ask him. I had a bunch of pictures of him. I sent it to him and then I asked him about it. He said, I don't know what you're talking about. And I said, you had to, you done all the paperwork. And he said, I just don't remember it. And just not long ago, I called that captain again and his wife answered the phone and said that he's got dementia. He can't, he wouldn't remember nothing. He couldn't tell you nothing. He can't talk to you. So he said, Gary, I mean, just listen to your story. It sounds to me like everybody involved said forget about it and meant it. It doesn't sound like anybody thought you were guilty of anything, you know, other than doing your job, but it still bothers you. I mean, obviously you've made all these phone calls. You still, so are you trying to find out whether you're in trouble or are you just wanting to know more about who this person was? Well, I made one more phone call that helped me out. When I called that captain's wife and she said, I'm gonna give you the name of another captain that was with my husband and he'll explain it. So I called him. I still got his number and talked to him. He said, I'm gonna tell you a little story. We were in a fire base in a bunker and had this new guy, been there just a couple of days. And everybody liked him and he was great and funny and, you know, a good kid. And he went out to the latrine and we started having an attack. And we were back behind the wall like and had our M16s ready and loaded and ready for anybody to come through that door. Well, that young guy come running through the door and they both unloaded on him. And they made a promise right there to everybody that they was not gonna tell his family how he got killed. So that guy told me, he said, just forget about it. Some things are best not said. And then when I was talking to one of my psychiatrists, he said, by killing that traitor, do you know how many GI lives you may have saved? By not getting attacked at night. Because he was sharing coordinates? And I didn't think about that at all, never. So that made me feel better. Right, right. So, you know, Gary, you talked about in the last few years you had a real close call with death and you've kind of, you've channeled things into your faith in God and you're, you know, has that helped any of those memories or those things that have, you know, been kind of tormenting you all these years? I still have nightmares. Yeah. I think I read somewhere in the Bible or something that God can't control an instant dream or something like that. I read that somewhere. And, but it just, you know, the first time Patsy stayed here, we was watching a movie or something, it was in the wintertime. And when she looked out, it was snowing and she didn't want to drive home. So she stayed in one bedroom and I stayed in the other bedroom. And we had breakfast that morning. And she said, do you know you scream in your sleep? And I know I have a lot of dreams dreams that always end up different. Right. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Now let's get back on a subject that you talked about. You know, when you, when you come back that the World War II guys didn't want the Vietnam guys to join the VFW. Well, obviously that has changed. You're the VFW commander. How did that change? In 85, Mr. Byers, Jack Byers, he worked at the Foundry. Yeah. And. Did he live on Custis Street? No, he lived down here on 2nd Street. Okay. And his son was a little bit younger than I was. And we always played together and you know, and stuff. And we went to the same church. And so Jack said, I'm gonna sign you up to the VFW. And he signed me up, but I didn't go to a meeting for a long time. And one of the other guys that was in the VFW worked at the Foundry. And he said, I heard you joined. And I said, yeah. He said, well, why don't you come to a meeting? I said, can I? He said, sure. Of course, a lot of the VFW's guys were starting to die out then. And I think they realized if they didn't start letting us join, the VFW would die out. Right, yeah. And so I went and you know, everything was great at the meetings and all. Made some good friends. And some of the best men in the city of Rapid belonged to the VFW. Now how long have you been in the VFW? It has been a good while, hasn't it? I think I got the paperwork where I signed the papers in about 1980. Right, that's a good while. I've been commander for 24 years. So for people that don't know, including me, I know a little bit about it. But what, give me the cliff notes. What does the VFW do? What is its mission statement? What are its goals? We served living by honoring the dead. And... I know when my grandfather died back in 2001, somewhere in that time range, he was a World War II veteran, a Marine. And you guys come and did the funeral and it really meant a lot to us. I know you guys do a lot of veteran funerals and you do the taps and you do the 21 gun salute. What kind of reaction do you get from family? I know it was very positive with us and we really appreciate it. I did 135 funerals last year. Really? We always give them a card. And 90% of them send us a good donation. See, that's the only way the VFW survives is donations. We don't have any money coming in from anywhere. So you guys do funerals. I know, you know, I kind of follow you on Facebook and... Muddy Puppies. Yeah. Have hot dog sales. Sometimes we'll have a yard sale. Yeah. So if someone wants to give to the VFW, how would they, what would be the best way to do that? They want to give to our local Post 776 VFW, what would be the, how would they do that? Our address is 102 Watt Street. 102 Watt Street, and they can just mail a check? Yeah. Okay, just mail a check, put a note in, it's a donation. And we had one lady... Tell us a little bit, you know, what do you do with the money? I mean, I know you do these funerals for these veterans that pass away, which means a lot to these families. Well, a lot of it right now is just keeping the lights and the water on. Just keeping the building on. You also, you're also replacing flags. I mean, a lot of flags around the city are provided by the VFW, aren't they? And we rent it out, make some money that way. Right. And, but you know, we have a Voice of Democracy contest. Oh, that's through the schools? Yeah. Yeah. Now, when I go in the VFW, and I love going in there, and I look around, and I see pictures and people's uniforms, and you know, what does that, when you go in the VFW, what does it mean, what kind of memories, what does that mean to you when you look around that building and you see it? Well, like I say, I've been friends, you know, the last 40 years with just about everybody that come through there. Yeah. Any veterans that stand out to you from Radford? Oh, yeah. Like who? Nick Nicholson. Oh, yeah. Mr. Nicholson was something else. Rudy Edwards. He was a commander. Oh, really? And. He was my barber. I didn't know he was a commander. Yeah. Yeah. And Moose. Oh, no, I do remember Moose. Moose was a caravander. Yeah, yeah. He was. And Moose, sir? In World War II in Africa. Oh, okay. He was a train conductor or something. Really? Yeah. He had pictures of it, and there was a whole lot more, I just can't remember right now. Right, right. So, I wanted to touch on this, just because, you know, this is kind of more recent news and national news, and we saw kind of the fall in Afghanistan, when we saw the American troops kind of running out there, and planes taking off, and people hanging on to wheels, and, you know, the explosions and our men, that we lost 13 good men and women there at the base. That was reminiscent to me from just somebody who reads about history, and from, you know, a lot of historians, it was kind of reminiscent of the fall of Saigon, about we kind of got out of Vietnam kind of the same way. The government decided they weren't going to fund anymore, as far as protection of what they fought for all those years. They left in chaos, and I wondered as I was watching that, and I would hear on TV that a lot of veterans of Afghanistan, that it really bothered them, because they fought, and they lost buddies over there. But, you know, watching that, I know you also watched the fall of Saigon in 1975. That was April of 1975. When you saw after, you know, you fought in Vietnam, and you lost your best friend there, and, you know, you were forced, you know, for our freedom to do things that human beings would not want to do, in defense of that freedom. How did that make you feel? I mean, when you saw it fall, how did that make you feel? Well, when I heard somebody say we were the first group that lost the war, or then somebody said it wasn't the men that lost the war, it was the politician. Yeah, that's for sure. And politicians had a whole lot to do with what was going on in Vietnam. Right. I remember one time, I was on guard duty, and I couldn't take any ammunition with me. I could carry my rifle, but I didn't have no bullets in it. So they were doing that then, too, huh? I don't, you know, they, I don't want to get started on politics. No, that's not the point. But I just wondered how that, you know, it had to be a tough thing to watch, you know, after, wondering was it worth it, you know. And obviously, you know, irregardless of the outcome. Well, downtown Saigon, they had this big, huge statue of two military men like getting ready to fight or something. Right. I got a picture of it. First day that they, when they took over, they destroyed that statue. Hmm. Just like, well, say it more. So let me ask you, Gary. So you, you know, I'm just gonna summarize. You grew up here in Radford, and you, you know, you went to Vietnam, and you served honorably there. You come home, and you dealt with a lot of these issues over the years. But, you know, you're now, I know I've been reading on Facebook, you help these guys that are, you know, veterans like, you were talking about Frog and some other guys that you helped in the hospital and back and forth. And you're really dedicated to the VFW and its purpose here in the city. You're very active locally. You're going to ball games, being, you know, with kids in the community, and just a little bit of everything. So, you know, so what's there left for Gary Harris to do? I mean, what, you know, you're not getting any younger, none of us are, but you're also, you're healthy, and you're doing well. What do you want to accomplish with the time the Lord gives you? Well, I've done, said it many times, that when I turn 80, I'm going to retire. Retire, how old are you now, Gary? 79. 79? You don't look like you're ready to retire. We got the nominations coming up. We had a meeting Thursday, and we got one Iraqi veteran that really would like to start learning. So if I get voted in, I'm going to get him as a senior vice and start teaching him things to do. Passing on the next generation. Well, let me ask you, Gary, this is maybe an odd question, and I don't, you know, if it's hard to answer, you can't answer and understand. You know, one of my podcasts I did a while back, and it was Courage of the Past and Fear of the Present, and I can't remember exactly what I called it, but one of the things that I talked about and one of the things that I've been enamored with, especially here lately, was the courage, you know, of our veterans and what they went through. Obviously, you know, you've demonstrated, we've talked about that with you tonight, and I specifically talked about, you know, those boys that landed on the beaches of Normandy and that, you know, that charged those beaches, and, you know, even though the guns and the fire were in their face. And I wonder, do you think this country can still produce patriots like yourself and like those men? You know, we don't know what we're gonna face. We obviously, we all, the world's in turmoil. You know, if the Lord don't come, it's hard to tell what's gonna happen in the next few years. But can the United States of America still produce men and women that are patriots like you guys in Vietnam and, you know, the veterans of Korea in World War II? Can this country still produce men and women like that? No. You don't think so? Just look at the recruiting. Recruiting's down for every branch. Nobody wants to join. Why do you think that is? Leadership. Leadership. Look at what you got in the Army. Yeah. I think I agree, Gary. There's a lot of- It's kind of scary to me. You know, I didn't serve in the military and I'm part of a generation that gets, that has been privileged to live off the sacrifices of others. But I do know that as kids, now, you know, the idea, you know, our veterans, the men in the service, what they'd accomplished in World Wars, they were, you know, that were our heroes. We really, in the 70s and 80s when I grew up, that was a big deal. I do remember a little of the Vietnam stuff, but totally had a different perspective. I think it had started to flip by the time I become a teenager. And, you know, I know we had a strong patriotic view of our country, but I've noticed just in the last, particularly the last 10 years, it just seems to have just taken a downward spiral in the other direction. And you gotta wonder, with the threats growing, you know, and, you know, countries like China are training their young men to be killers and to, you know, and we're training ours to whine, I think, it kind of worries me. Well, one thing I would add that- That's not all kids, you know, there's some that are not that way at all. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's still, there's still some, but, you know, when you're talking about the, you know, there's over 800,000 boys killed in Vietnam. I mean, and that's about the size of our military. Now, it's not a whole lot bigger than that. Well, it's 55,000. 55,000, okay. I'm sorry. And when I was talking about the young guys that went through the jungles, it wasn't that easy for the rest of us either. We were, it was always tense. Nine out of 10 times, I don't care where you was at in Vietnam, you got rocket fire, mortar fires, things like- Every day was a potential of death, really. You couldn't trust anybody. You know, they might walk through the streets during the daytime, and at nighttime, they would be the ones that was firing the rockets, so, you know, you just didn't. Hmm. Well, let me ask you, I'm gonna ask you one final question, Gary, and we're gonna close this out. You know, I think all of us wonder what people will say about us when we're gone. We don't know. We hope they're good things. We hope the preacher don't lie at our funeral, you know. But I wonder, if you could write how you would like to be remembered, what would, how would you like to be, what would you like for people to say about Gary Harris? He was a good father. Hard worker. Patriotic. Loved God, country. I don't think anybody could say anything better, Gary. And I think they're already saying it about you, too. Already. Well, you know, I've enjoyed this interview. It's, it's not often that we get to sit down and really get to know each other. You know, I know we, people see each other at the grocery store, and we know a thing or two about each other, but I hope from this interview that the citizens of Radford who know you as the VFW guy, you know, as Commander Gary, that they know a little bit more about your life story and about how you grew up. And, and I wanted to tell you myself, personally, how much I appreciate your sacrifice and your service to the country and, and even beyond that, past that, your service to the city of Radford, because you continually serve in so many ways, and I just wanted to thank you for that, Gary. Well, I have had a few to ask me to run for mayor. Well, you would definitely get my back. You would definitely get my vote. Too old for politics now. And if you need a campaign manager, I know, I know, I know somebody with a podcast. Ha ha ha.