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The speaker is organizing a podcast for their journalism class. They discuss the topic of George Trump's speakers on campus and student organizing responses. They talk about the importance of addressing harmful issues brought by the speaker and the need to draw a line. They also mention the lack of awareness and the need for education on the severity of the issues. They discuss the process of organizing the walkout. It'll be like up to half an hour roughly speaking, I'm just, I'll be chill. We can also cut off if you like have places to be. Um, okay, so. So weird, it's showing up as a phone call on my computer. Anyways, um, okay, so. Um, I guess to jump right in, I will also, really quick, I was in the middle of explaining this and I'll get back to that. Hold on. I have a free range to do a podcast for my intro journalism class. Not intro journalism, digital news. You can tell I've had a bit of a long day. I know I'm a little all over the place. We have free range to do a podcast on whatever we want to talk about. This is sort of looking into the speakers that George Trump brings to campus and student organizing responses to that. Since it's only ten minutes, I'm just speaking with you two and then I spoke with Carrie and Fauci about the Pennsylvania walkout last year. Um, yeah. I mean, do you guys have any questions before we get started? The only one is like, will this be shared with classmates, is it just your professor who will get a like, what are the vibes? I mean, it's, um, so our like, as we go through the semester, we add things to our like blog site. So let's keep that in mind. I don't know if there's much to keep in mind because the event is over. Um, just for context, we like, we're explicitly not talking about Michael Knowles pre-event because we didn't but I think we're fine. We pretended like it wasn't a camera event. That's the vibes. But I think we're fine to talk about it now. But just keep in mind, internet vibes. And if you realize that like, if you say anything that later you're like, ooh, I don't know if I should have said that, please reach out to me. I'm not like an official journalist and I very much would rather like, you guys feel comfortable than like, have the one specific quote, you know? Yeah, yeah, I got you. Alright, um, so I guess I'll jump right in. Could y'all talk about, um, like what inspired you to organize the event? Yeah. I'm collecting my thoughts. Yeah. Um. And you can also just talk. I mean, I'll like, I'm gonna go through after. This isn't like a, oh, I'm gonna like record the whole segment and do it once. It's more like, I'll be going through and like, picking out things. So like, feel free to just talk. I'll figure it out after. Um, I guess Yeah, you said it in the second part. So I think for me, the reason why I think it was important to organize this event is that um, I, just like taking together different pieces of my Georgetown journey, um, when I was in OA for NSO both last year and this year, um, there's like always a free speech section that they give to the first years and transfers and also to the orientation advisors and they basically present this like, example of the Westboro Baptist Church coming to Georgetown and how there were like, two potential responses. The first was like active protesting against the Westboro Baptist Church like trying to create that direct counter. Um, and the second was like a group of students like lining up and then like basically trying to draw attention away from the Westboro Baptist Church. Um, and then I've also thought about some other precedent too, where for instance, when, uh, there was a democratic presidential forum on climate in 2019, Republicans held like a counter climate town hall or whatnot, just like thinking through what events have looked like when people are like dissatisfied per se. And so for us, I think obviously, um, when we heard that there was a speaker who was going to potentially bring a lot of harm to campus, I think that almost off the bat, it felt like the right thing to do was to like talk about the issues that he was likely going to speak on in a way that was not like framed in the way that he was, he wanted it to be framed, right? Um, Michael Mulls wanted it to be framed as like, um, you know, obviously as, as really harmful, transphobic, and we wanted to talk about like these important issues in a way that like wasn't displaying it in that kind of light. Yeah, I guess for me, like hearing that he was coming and knowing who he was right before because of those comments that he made, um, I feel like there's a lot of times where there's two directions that people go. It's either maybe three directions, ignore completely or they protest of some kind or they try to like confront the speaker and have dialogue and I just don't see, especially in situations like this where the speaker is so vile and it's an issue that's so, like almost black and white, like there are things that I think that we can argue about, but that's just not what I mean. Um, and so you know, looking at the options, I was thinking protest is definitely what he wants. He likes to create, you know, dramas about U.S. Global Capitalism, he says that kind of stuff. He wants to invite T1 to videos to make money off of, to like look at all the young liberals and all that stuff. Um, and obviously, you know, confronting him and asking a point of question about it like some of those people do, has the same effect, right? Because he's good at what he does. He's good at, you know, basically he's good at lying. Um, and so I was like, well, there's nothing we can do about it. He's got to come anyway and he's probably going to say it because he goes to a lot of different schools. Um, and, you know, creating some sort of drama or giving him what he wants is the option. Like, what else is there? And I thought, well, whatever he's out doing. And so that's kind of what the event was born out of. Sure. Could you also, to be fair, could you just slide the phone to the middle of the table? I think it'll pick up the audio either way. There's three phones right here. Um, okay. Um, I mean, obviously I'll like go into this as well, like when I'm recording the podcast, but is there anything you guys want to add specifically about like why bringing Michael Knowles specifically to campus, um, felt like something that needed to be like reacted to makes it sound like I'm doing this negatively. So like, you know what I mean? Like why was this something that you wanted to have a response to? I think for me at least it was like when do we draw the line if we don't draw the line here, right? Like if like we let Knowles come to campus and we just like try to pretend like it's not happening or like let like five or 10 people who are really aggravated, like go and scream or like go and like try to confront, like in our eyes like, I don't know, like creating also a model for future kinds of like responses, um, thinking through like what else is happening in the year, right? Like the Cardinal O'Connor conference, thinking through like other potential events that, or like other potential speakers that, you know, groups could bring to campus and how, like how we can best find a way to create that like education opportunity, but also like creating that show of force that shows that like our campus is like welcoming and wants to support like trans students in this instance specifically. Um, also, yeah, and just, um, no pressure to like, if you guys don't like both want to respond every time, that's also fine, but also if I start talking and like one of you wanted to say something just like cut me off or let me know. I can answer. Okay. For the good of society, transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely. The whole preposterous ideology at every level. That's what you said. Um, I just think that that's such a, like there are, like I said, there are things that people disagree about and that's just not one of those things. Like that's almost like the language is genocidal. Like if you look at, um, and I think this is, you know, I think that our society is still too transphobic to kind of get to this point where we recognize this yet, but like if you look at it, like there's organizations that track on human rights around the world, um, and they have said like we're on the steps towards genocide. And I know that sounds kind of crazy to people, um, but you know, part of how that begins is dehumanization and like division, right? Um, and then when you get to the point of like eradication, right, that's when that starts to, to sort of become obvious. Um, and you know, one of the things that frustrates me most about what he said and when he said that is it seems like people didn't know, right? Like I knew when he said that. Um, and I know some of my friends, like the other people around me that are kind of very like politically aware, they knew when he said that. Um, but also like when, you know, it became announced that he was going to come to get us here, but she didn't know who he was. And I was like, how did you not know that? Like that is the wildest thing anyone, like he said this at the like largest conservative gathering in the country, right? Um, like all these important people and like Republican party in a room together and no phobia, he said that. Um, and so I just thought, you know, you've got just the severity of that statement in combination with a lack of awareness, um, that sort of, that's what made me want to do something that was going to be informative and educational, right? And not just something to counter him because I thought, you know, this is indicative of a larger problem, right? Like of course, you know, he's transphobic. He's one of many, many, many, many transphobes, but the bigger issue and what feeds people like that and what gives him power and allows him to push his agenda and people like him is that there's a lack of awareness in general and people don't understand the severity and people don't understand the issues. Um, and so that was when I started thinking like, how can we turn this into something positive to get people involved and empower them to step up? Yeah, that makes sense. Um, can you all talk a little bit about like what the actual process of organizing the walkout looked like? Um, just in terms of like, I guess getting people on board, finding speakers. Um, yeah. Yeah, organizing the walkout was pretty tricky. Sorry, I have walkout on here because I'm still going off of, I'm using the same, I'm going like the same, I think I mentioned this, I interviewed Swan Sheehan Carey about the Pence one. Yeah. Um, and I figure I'm just going to follow like a similar structure. Yeah. No, I side note, um, it was so fun having a reason to just like listen to her talk because I have so much respect for that woman. She's so cool. I love it when we like collectively bully him. She also lets me bully Felix. Um, but yeah, onto your question. I'll speak a little bit to this because Felix really bared like the brunt of the labor I would say on organizing the event. Um, I think initially it was just thinking through first the importance of elevating trans and non-binary voices because, um, a lot of the times on issues surrounding marginalized communities, but especially on trans people, cis people run the conversation and that's like really, really like, it's just, it's like, it's I think emblematic of the fact that so many people are ignorant about it and that like the folks of the non-oppressed group are like seemingly the ones who are like the ones who care the most. So I think that was really important. Um, when we were kind of discussing what the panel would kind of look like, what the event structure would look like. Um, and I think the focus was specifically on like action on what, um, what's, what's cisgender students in the audience could really do, what they can do specifically at Georgetown, but what they can do in their day-to-day lives. Um, I think that like so many powerful things came out of that panel. So many people that I know in my life who came out of that panel telling me like, oh, like these are such important things that like I would not have learned if I had not been here. And I think that like whether it's like talking about the importance of being progressive and taking action or the importance of building community, like I think these are all things that from the beginning when we were organizing were not things that we thought would be like focused on as much per se, but ultimately like what ended up, the results that we got were like more, at least for me, at least exceeding like my expectations. Yeah, I agree with that. Um, I think when I first was thinking about what it was going to look like, the most important thing was that everyone on the stage, you know, the speakers, the moderator, or, um, I wanted the entire panel to be made up of trans and non-binary people. Um, and, you know, that made it difficult because we wanted it to be, you know, from an advocacy perspective, right, and not every trans and non-binary person is involved in advocacy, um, and they shouldn't have to be. Um, but also, you know, they would be able to come on short notice, um, and they would be willing to do that and say, you know, yes to coming and also, you know, at that point, we weren't sure if we were going to be able to find an honorary, you know, so it was very much like difficult to get people there, especially on short notice. Um, and so, you know, I got a lot of questions from people, like, what about this person, what about this person, and I was like, nope, they gotta be trans. That was just really important. Um, and so, I kind of just came up with a list of like people that, like, I knew of, people, other people in DEMS or some of my friends knew of, um, just did some research on the internet and just, like, came up with a list of, like, I think we ended up emailing twelve? I think it was, like, nine. Um, it was not very many. Um, like, nine people. Um, and I was just crossing my fingers that one of them said yes, right, because the intention was for it to be a panel, um, and for them all kind of to have each other, but I would be happy to do one, because it was such a short time. I was like, we're talking two weeks out, you know what I mean? Really, it was that short? It was, yeah. Three, three to four weeks. Two, I think two and a half. We found out that the NOLS event was happening in late August, roughly speaking. Uh-huh. I think our emails went out in early September. First or second week of September. So, yeah, I would say two to three weeks. Yeah, it was, like, right between there. Um, and I think we emailed some of them a little bit earlier than others, but, yeah, about that time frame. Um, and I was just surprised, like, a lot of people said yes. Like, half the group said yes. And even the ones that didn't email me back and said, hey, like, thanks so much for doing this, like, this is important. Um, and just, like, really touching messages that I got back. Um, so I was just, like, shocked and thrilled by, like, the outpouring of people that were like, yes, this is important. Um, I mean, Representative Turner came all the way from Oklahoma. That was, you know, not something that I ever expected to get. And, in fact, meeting them, um, I kind of figured, like, they're probably going to say no, right? Um, especially state representatives. Um, you know, they're not full-time legislators. You know, they've got lives. They're busy. They got other jobs. Um, and so asking somebody to come all the way, especially on short notice, to D.C. was a big ask. And they were like, yeah, sure. So, yeah, that was the most important thing. Um, and so, yeah, I just kind of emailed people. And then once I said yes, it was just, you know, as Brandon says, all gas no brakes, right? It was, like, all, like, full speed ahead. Um, and then just, like, pull it together. Logistics and stuff, you know, we didn't expect to get Gaston. Um, that just opened up kind of last minute. Um, we were actually going to an SEC gallery, which I think would have been not ideal. Um, because a lot of space is booked on campus at that point, right? It's also expensive to book Gaston and it's hard to get, um, you know, the lighting. SBX are, like, contracted. It's just a lot of logistics to go into that. Um, and, you know, with the help of, you know, other people on the business board and the LGBTQ center and the lecture fund and geopolitics and a lot of people stepped in to help us out. Um, upper admins, people in upper admin, um, to kind of, you know, help us figure out, like, um, you know, there's a lot of security issues, especially with the NOLS event going on on campus. And, you know, are people going to come, you know, bother us? Um, or, you know, is anybody from us going to bother them? Which, obviously, no. Um, that was the whole point, right? Um, but, yeah, just people that kind of, you know, gave us a lot of, um, guidance and help and funding at times. Um, and it was just kind of a miracle they got pulled together. But, yeah. And it was so cool that y'all ended up getting Gaston, because I think that made such a statement of what we're really putting, like, as a community, what we're, like, focusing on. Yeah. That was also important to me to have it in a big room. Like, that meant something, right? Because I was, like, I thought, I mean, I didn't want to have the morphing, which is whatever. Like, I didn't want to be in a classroom. That was not, that wasn't, you know, I didn't want, I don't, I didn't want to seem less legitimate than that. Yeah. Um, and I think, in the end, we seemed more legitimate, right? Gaston's, like, the oldest and most historic, largest auditorium on campus. Um, and, um, you know, to my knowledge and for the knowledge of anyone that was involved, that was the first time that we'd ever had an all-trans table in Gaston. Um, and so, I think that just kind of plays into, you know, how much we were really trying to just go bigger. And then, can you all talk a little bit about the event itself and, like, what, I guess, what sort of takeaways you're hoping that, like, students took from the event? Um, and, like, what sort of, like, overall messages you hope that everyone was left with? Um, I think that there was a different message depending on who you were. Um, I think the message to trans and non-binary students was that you're not alone as a community. Um, and, you know, the future, we're still moving in that direction, right? And, like, I think that in a lot of ways, and I think this is true of civil rights in America in general, things get worse before they get better. Um, but I wanted to be uplifting and community building, um, for our trans community on campus, um, but also for our mostly cis audience. I just wanted to be educational, um, and I wanted people to care. Because I don't, and I don't, it kind of frustrates me, right, because I feel like there's a lot of issues that are really important that people kind of just tune out. But, you know, me and Brennan talked about this at some point before the event too, but, like, not everybody, there's so much stuff you can care about in the world. Like, so many awful things. And people don't have the capacity to care about everything. Do you know what I mean? Um, and so, I wanted to create something that was accessible, that people had, you know, could show up for an hour and, you know, to help them understand, like, why this is important. Um, and just to help people care. Um, and also give them concrete things they can do to be helpful. Um, which is part of, of, I know there's, like, we made some questions that were about, like, specifically, like, what cis allies can do, because I thought that was really important. Um, so just not only to, you know, give them the education and give them the knowledge and the context, right, because I think a lot of people realize there's, like, a, oh, for lack of a better, like, a war against trans people in the United States right now, but they don't necessarily understand all the context of severity. And so I wanted to do that, but I also wanted to give them things to walk out with, right? So, like, not only is, like, the world gloomy and awful, but, like, here's what we're going to do about it. Um, and so, yeah, those are the main things to help people take away from it. And I think that they did, and I've gotten people that come up to me afterwards and said, like, like, I didn't know this, and now I do, or, like, there's an attack for this reason, or, like, I felt like I belonged there, and that's just basically all that I wanted. Yeah. Steven. Another job. Alright. Um, yeah, and I mean, um, you touched on this a little bit, but what did you all see in terms of the, like, student-to-student event reaction? Um, I guess, like, you mentioned some students coming up to you. Um, what else have you seen in terms of, like, student reactions to the event? Yeah, I think in a, um, I guess that's a, I think part of what's interesting about the event, too, is, like, we don't necessarily know how some folks, right, I think at least within our circles, which I would say are probably fairly progressively named, like, folks are going to be receptive, right? But I think what's really important is that, like, there are people on this campus who have never seen a trans or non-binary person in their life. They've never talked to one, they've never heard one. They don't think they have. At least, yeah, according to them, right? And so I think in that sense, like, for, like, I think the gains, per se, that they might have had might be, like, monumental in the sense that, like, this is an issue that, like, maybe was not something they thought was as severe or as harmful that, like, they're learning more about. We had, like, so many cards written at the end of our event, so we did, like, an advocacy-related community-building event where we had folks write, like, letters to trans people and trans youth specifically who are receiving, like, gender-affirming care. They'll also get, like, a letter in the mail or a postcard that has some information, or has, like, not information, has, like, a nice outpouring of support, right? And we had, like, multiple dozens of those written. I haven't counted. In addition to the sticky notes written about, like, what cis folks at Georgetown, what, like, Georgetown as an institution can do more to support trans and non-binary students, but also, like, what folks can individually do. And I think that, like, writing it out really, to some extent, like, secures in your head, like, oh, this is what I'm going to do. And I think that's that was important. And this is moving a little more into, like, away from the events and more into, like, sort of the university's handling of everything. And so once again, if there's anything you're not comfortable responding to, or if there's anything that, like, you decide later you don't want put out on the internet, let me know. But what do you think, like, because obviously we go to a university that, like, invites such an array of speakers, and, like, we really pride ourselves on that. At what point do you think it goes too far? Like, you don't need to have a definitive, like, do you think that we should have invited NOLs or not. If you do, that'd be great. But, like, you also don't need to. But, like, where do you think like, how do you think the university should be navigating that discussion of, like, at what point does it become too harmful to bring a speaker onto campus? Yeah, I kind of touched on this earlier, but you know, I'm not against free speech. Like, I'm from Texas. I'm used to hearing Republicans talk. Like, I don't think they're all bad people. This is something else. I know they bring, even, like, Republican politicians, right? Like, I don't, I think that a lot of them are awful, but that's just, this is a whole other level, right? Because, you know, one, he has no, like, actual, like, relevant experience or expertise that I think is really of interest to Georgians, and obviously not of interest to me, right? People have their own opinions, what is there to them? But he's just a guy that has all these awful opinions. Like, that's kind of the extent of it. And, like, I'm not, I guess it's less about that, but more about the fact that, like, I don't know if this is going to explain this correctly, I'm going to restart. Um, I guess just severity compared to, you know, other conservatives that are brought to campus. And I understand there's a student group, right? And so there's some, you know, student groups that apparently have some, you know, autonomy in what they can and can't do, but you know, to the extent that it was that harmful, right? Where if somebody's coming here and saying we should eradicate a group of people, I think that's when the university should step in and say like, this is too much, right? Because it's going to have a negative impact on people on campus, right? Um, you know, even more so than, you know, other conservative people that you can bring in, this is just too much. Um, but yeah, that's just my take. Um, yeah, I'm not sure if I'd want that out there on the internet, to be honest. And there's a lot of, like, conservative people that are like, I just want to take free speech or whatever, but that's my opinion. I can also, like, once again, I can go through this and it's, this is, like, such an informal project, I can, like, send it to you guys. That'd be great. Um, I guess my take on it, I think our speech and expression policy is not well written. Um, I can say that pretty candidly. Um, that's because there are so many loopholes that basically allow speakers to get away with saying a lot of really harmful things as long as they don't target an individual, as long as they are not, like, genuinely threatening them according to the policy as written, and also, like, if they violate some legal boundary of what harassment is defined as in the law, which is also pretty broad. So in that sense, um, the university basically can't stop a lot. I would say, like, a good majority of potential hate speech on coming to campus, right? Um, and I think that that is a problem that the university may not really see, but like, students of marginalized groups definitely see, and it's, like, really unfortunate that time after time, um, students of those backgrounds have to continue carrying the burden of doing that work to, like, explain why the speech is so harmful, and also, like, bear the brunt of that, like, because it's unpaid labor, right? Like, you're taking time after time to, like, organize folks, to talk to administrators, to, like, create, you know, like, proposals, things like that. Like, it's just like it's, it's kind of how the system is, right? Where administrators generally are not in touch with what a lot of students want, especially students of marginalized backgrounds, and as a result, they have to put in the time and effort. I think, for me, the line that could be drawn, and, like, this is not, like, a solid line that I think is, like, my way or the highway, per se, but, like, I think if your speech is targeting, like, a community, would cause harm to a community, like, a specific community, even if you wanted to stick with, like, the Title 7 definition, like, the discrimination against these groups. Protected classes. Like, obviously, those protected classes don't go don't extend to every protected class that I would want, but that's a start, right? That's, like, the bar that Georgetown doesn't even reach right now, where, like, someone could come to campus and say, like, speaking to my own identity as a Chinese American, and be, like, Chinese Americans are complicit with the CCP, and, like, and I don't want to make this about me, actually, but, like, it's an example where, like, folks could say really harmful things to a group on campus, like, tie, like, Chinese students to COVID, tie, like, with a more recent example, like, Palestinian students to Hamas, and, like, there's, that's not a violation of the speech expression policy by any means, and the university's response time after time when harmful speech happens on campus is, we want to be there to support you. It's, like, they always want to be reactive, and not proactive on stopping that harmful speech. Like, when we talk to administrators, I can speak pretty broadly here, that, like, the response was how can we better support students after the harm, and it's just, like, that's so frustrating, that, like, you see the harm will happen, like, conversations have been had with folks in the administration where they have acknowledged the harm will happen, and they say, but we're going to figure out what to do afterward. Like, that's just, like, ridiculous to us, that, like, students have to endure that pain because our speech expression policy is so, we live in this, like, idealistic 70s world where everyone agrees with everyone after watching Walter Cronkite or whatever his name is, right? Like, we don't live in that world anymore, right? We didn't then, either. Exactly. So it's, like, that's frustrating. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, that makes sense. How do you wish that, like, I guess to expand on, like, being more proactive, how do you wish that the university would, like, better communicate with students in terms of, like, actually, like, taking into account when students are saying this is too far, like, this speaker has gone too far, and, like, they're going to cause, like, you're going to cause harm by, like, bringing them onto campus. How would you hope that those, like, conversations might play out in the future? I don't know. I don't, I think in order to do anything meaningful would, at that point, it would be a conversation, be a policy, right? Yeah. There would need to be a policy change. Because I mean, they're very, like, like, kind of like Brennan said, like, it's very, like, oh, let's all get along and, like, listen to each other, whatever, and, like, that's what universities are for in a sense, right? Yeah. Like, it's to share ideas and, like, learn from people and, like, that's why there's, like, you know, you're not the same person that you were when you came out as you were when you came in, right? That's good. That's a good thing about universities. And I don't, you know, I don't, the point of this isn't to say, like, if we don't like your speech, you can't come. Like, that's not it. But like I said earlier, when you get to something this extreme, right, I think that at that point there needs to be a policy that's, like, we're going to draw the line, right? And I think about, like, I don't know if this is, this may not be a good, you know, analogy, because I think it's kind of like Applestorm, just when you compare, like, experiences of different groups, but, like, if the KKK came and were, like, you know, said some of their ideology, like, would that be allowed? Because I think under the policy it would be, right? Yeah. And so, you know, just, like, if you, I think part of the reason we haven't had these issues before is because there hasn't, like, it hasn't really happened before. Like, there hasn't been anything incredibly severe coming, right? At least, you know, I've been in Georgetown for my second year, so, you know, I can't go and, like, know all the history, right? But I think the policy seems like it's written as if everybody's acting in good faith and they're not. Yeah. And so I could definitely see there to be a point where, you know, let's face it, like, there are people out there that are worse than Michael and Melissa, believe it or not. Like, what if somebody like that comes, right? Because under the policy they still can, right? And I think that, you know, that's something that Georgetown should be proactive about because it's going to become an issue, I'm sure, at some point, especially as people get more polarized, and, you know, and also this kind of speech gets more normalized, too. Yeah. Especially if we look at, like, LGBTQ rights. Like, five, six years ago it was a different world, right? And so, you know, there's a lot more hatred towards queer people and it's become more normalized than it was, even though it seems kind of counterintuitive, right? Because now there's more queer people and there's more people coming out and there's more, in some places, there's more rights, right? But you also see, like, a major backslide and, you know, the more that that happens and the more it's allowed and not even, you know, not necessarily condoned, but, like, legitimized, you know, the less extreme it seems. And I think that's also dangerous, not just for Georgetown, but for the entire country. To end on a slightly more positive note, what are some things that y'all appreciate within the student body itself in terms of, like, how you've seen people show up for each other at things like or not, like, at, but, like, when we're seeing things like the NOLS event with, like, the Pence event last year. What are some things that you admire about how the student body is coming together to show at least to each other what this community means to us and what we want it to look like? Yeah. I think it's always good to see people coming together. This is a very, very politically active and social justice oriented campus. And I think a lot of people don't recognize that because, you know, most people only go to one college, but I went to a state school in Texas for a couple years while I was in high school, and this is a very, very, very strange place. And I don't think people, like, realize that a lot of times, but, you know, the location and just, like, I think elite schools are generally like this in general because you have such an educated student body that's aware of things, right? But, yeah, this is not, I think if you go to most colleges in the U.S., this is a very special place. You consider, like, how aware people are and engaged and how much they want to, you know, solve problems. And, yes, that's one of the things I like the most about Georgetown is that people generally, I feel like, care about stuff. And so it was certainly with our event, it was good to see people, you know, show up with their feet, right? Like, they came to the event, but also just in general and hopefully in the ways that the information they take away from the event, they apply to other parts of their lives. So, yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think even though we are a progressive campus on many issues and tend to be social justice oriented, I think, like, obviously as students, like, we all live so many different lives. I think that's something important to acknowledge. A lot of folks on campus are working 10, 15, 20 plus hours to make sure that they're paying work-study, that, you know, students are taking on club commitments, they're taking on, like, commitments to family, there are, like, other, so many other things going on that, like, sometimes even making time for an hour is, like, can seem tough, right? And I think there is also a tendency for, like, we talk about performative activism all the time. I think I saw, like, a really funny tweet that, like, the new performative activism is calling out performative activism. I kind of agree with that. But in the sense that, like, it can be easy to, like, post a graphic that denounces a speaker or it could be really easy, but I think, like, taking that extra step and, like, obviously, I think, like, I don't want to say the bar is on the floor, but, like, taking that step is, like, important and it should have happened anyway, but it's the fact that, like, there are folks who traditionally, like, typically may not be as, like, given the other responsibilities that they have in their life or given the other things. Like, I saw folks who came in, like, 40, 45 minutes late because they had come from, like, a class that ended and they still wanted to be there for the last 15 minutes and stay to write, like, notes and letters. And, like, that speaks volumes in terms of the fact that, like, there are folks willing to make that extra commitment. Yeah. I don't know. I think I already kind of answered a little bit, but yeah, I think people pulled into a lot of different directions here and I kind of talked about that a little bit earlier. Like, people can care about everything, right? I think people here try to and that's good, but, you know, not everybody can look at television like I do or, you know, there's just so many different things people do and I feel that too, right? Like, there's a lot of things I care about and a lot of things I want to, you know, be involved in and help out with, but, you know, we all have to kind of pick and choose. Unfortunately, I wish we didn't, but we do. And so it was just really important to see people, you know, choose to come to our event and say, like, this is important to me and that's why I want to be here because I think that's what, you know, people are saying by showing up, right? Even if all they do is kind of show up, listen, and leave, right? I think that's still important. So, yeah. I think, I mean, you guys talked about this earlier, but I think that's, like, also why something like this is such, like, an important event to have because it's like it's an hour and people can show up and say, this is something we care about and it's something we're showing up for and then they can go back and keep working on the other things they're passionate about as well. So, I think it's, like, it's really nice being at a college campus and, like, having that opportunity where it's, like, even if something might not be, like, your direct focus, if it's something you're passionate about, there's still, like, direct things that you can show up at. For sure. Yeah. Alright. Those were all the questions I had. Was there anything else you all wanted to talk about? I don't think a lot of people realize this, but, you know, even though Michael came, we kind of still did win. You know, when he first announced that he was coming and just the Republicans or the student group that brought him announced that he was coming. Why are you giggling? Okay. When they first announced that he was coming, his speech topic was dictatorship by minorities. Dictatorship of the minorities. Something like that. I'm like, which? Where? I wish I had that power. That'd be dope. Give the gays the power, please. But, yeah, it was just, you know, clearly he was going to talk about something like that and I don't see, I just, and I've watched more speeches of his now than I ever wish to, but, you know, he was going to talk about that, right? At least, even if he was going to hit on all the minorities as he probably was, you know, that's, I'm sure he would have talked about, you know, queer people. Especially given his past comments specifically about trans people. But, like, what was it, a couple hours before the event? An hour before. Yeah, it was announced that he was actually going to talk about comparing Biden to Xi Jinping. So he changed the topic last night. We don't know exactly where that came from. I don't know if it was his decision or the student group or exactly what, but he didn't talk about trans people or queer people. I'm sure he said a lot of other awful stuff. Like, to my knowledge, he didn't. And so I think we kind of did win in a sense, right? We took this, you know, unfortunately semi-powerful guy who has a big microphone and, you know, altered what he was going to say on our campus, which I think was a big win. I didn't actually know that was his original. I feel like I'd heard general things about what he'd been planning on talking about, but that's... I can't claim to know exactly that that's why he changed it, but I'm pretty confident. An hour before. Yeah, it was an hour before, and all of a sudden he changed the topic. I'm pretty sure that we might have a little influence on that. All right. Yeah, that was everything that I had. Thank you all so much for doing this. Absolutely. I'm excited to see where this goes. I'm excited to listen. Yeah, I've never been on a podcast before. I love Sunshine Parish. I can't wait to hear this. Oh, it was excellent. I'm so in awe of both of you. Such cool people. All right. Thanks so much. Have a good Thursday night. You too. Thank you all. Bye.