Dr2DrITNV(edit).MP3

Father, the speaker begins by thanking God for the time they have to come together. They want to use their time in a way that glorifies God. The speaker introduces a podcast episode with a special guest, Reverend Dr. Joseph Francis Sr. Dr. Francis shares his background and experiences, including his time in the Navy and his work in the church. He discusses the challenges of leadership and the importance of living out what you teach. The conversation touches on changes in the church over time and the need to find common ground in the Bible. Dr. Francis also talks about his role in the church's education ministry and the goal of teaching and training based on the Word of God. Father, we just thank you for this time that we can come together. We know that all time is in your hand, and yet we want to use the time that you give us in a manner, in a way that glorifies you, that recognizes the fact that it is you who have blessed us. And as we go forward, may we reflect on the things that will be helpful to one another as well as to any audience that might come across it. We thank and we praise you, in Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Well, good morning, everybody. We are very, very happy to have you join us today with another edition of the Health and Wealth in Wines podcast. We are very fortunate today to have our guest, a very special guest, someone we've known for years, Reverend Dr. Joseph Francis Sr. will be joining us and sharing his words of wisdom with us. Good morning, Dr. Francis. Good morning to you and Brother Hammond. How are you all? We're doing well. Yep. Good morning, Jesse. Good morning. Okay. So, Reverend Francis, one of the things that we like to do is just open up and just have you tell us about yourself. So tell us about Reverend Dr. Joseph Francis. What would you like for people to know? Well, it's a long story, but I'll tell you. That's okay. We've got time. I was born in Rio, back in Florida, a little town called Monticello, outside of Tallahassee, North Florida. And I stayed back there until I was about 20, 21. I went to Florida A&M a couple of years after I finished high school there in Harlem, and joined the Navy. Once I joined the Navy, eventually trained in Orlando, but ended up in San Diego as a station. That's where I was stationed at. Okay. So, I've been out here practically ever since I was about 22, 23 years old. I did go back for about a year or so, but since then, and so I went to school out here in terms of college. My major work was done at San Diego State and Bowler University, and that's where I did my theological, biblical work at. And after I got out of school, college there, and grad school, I did plan a church and ran that church as senior there for about 10 years. Then I turned it over to my associate, Descente Sefa, and discontinued. But I really felt that the church was running, not only that church, but the church in general, really experiencing more problems than what I see in the Bible, in terms of leadership, in terms of people getting along and working together, and all of this. So, I guess, to some degree, I did become somewhat disillusioned with the reality of what life is as opposed to a theory. That's true. That's true. I really kind of slapped, you know, from a young fellow, maybe 30 years old, that was young at that time. So, what did you learn from that experience? I learned that we have to go ahead and do what God called us to do, individually and as corporately, but starting individually, without respect to what other people are doing. Okay. In other words, I can teach someone or tell someone, but I cannot be responsible for what someone else does, nor can they be responsible for what I do. I can't say, well, I would have, I should have, I could have, but these people or that person, you know, I'm responsible for my actions. And someone said that if we want to start growing, and I might have said this before in a message, but the basis of growing is to stop making excuses and to stop being responsible. Okay. So, being responsible for myself and not putting that on someone else, that's one of the things I learned, and I think it's a great lesson to learn. Is there a difference if you're responsible for yourself, but you're a leader? In other words, does the leader have different responsibilities than a follower? Let's say the church, and let's say you're a leader of the church. Is that a unique responsibility, or is that just like everybody else? It is a unique responsibility in the sense that we are to teach and to train and to challenge and to encourage and to attempt to be an example of doing what we teach. It's not enough simply to teach it or preach it. It's a responsibility to attempt to live out what you teach and what you preach. And so, obviously, what happens oftentimes is we can teach and we can preach, and that is part of the responsibility to teach others what you've been taught yourself. And that's one of the things, the reason we learn and study, is that we'll be able to teach others. The Bible says that we're to be able to teach others, but that's part of the responsibility. Beyond that, we are to live it out as well as teach it. It's not enough just to teach it or preach it, and that's where it really gets where the rubber meets the road, so to speak, is when you have to actually live it out. Exactly. Exactly. It's easy to preach it, but living it, that's where the challenge comes in, when people push it back on you. Somebody once said that given information is one thing, but education is people receiving information that changes behavior. You can teach me or tell me, but if I don't change or my behavior doesn't change, have I really learned anything? You know? And I guess... Go ahead. Yes. I was disagreeing. I said, apparently, we haven't. If we don't change, essentially, you have not been educated. I mean, theoretically, you have, but practically, you have not. If that makes any sense. No, that makes sense. Have churches significantly changed in 2024 as, say, back when you first started your church in general? I think we're practically the same. I think that probably people get a little bit more pushback on leadership than they used to. At least, they used to pretend like they were respecting leadership. But I think leadership gets more pushback. Kind of like Rodney Dangerfield said, I get no respect. No respect. I think that people at least gave a little bit more respect, in many cases, to leadership than they do nowadays. I think it's more on a level, as opposed to pedestally, almost on the same level. Is that good or bad? I guess it has some good points to it, but there's a point where if you are with someone and they are in a leadership position, I think you should give them that respect. I think that's proper to do. It doesn't mean you can't have a platform whereby we can talk and deal with issues and problems and concerns, but there's a way to go about doing things. That's what I'm talking about. It's not that you shouldn't be challenged or encouraged or corrected, but how you go about it in respectable manners is what I'm suggesting. I certainly agree with that. In my lifetime, and I'm 70 plus, I've seen changes in the churches compared to when I was going to church as a little boy in Nashville, Tennessee, as compared to now. I've seen changes in terms of the way people dress in church and the way people act in church. A lot of different changes. But I ask myself, is this a good change or a bad change? I'm not sure that everybody should think and believe what I think and believe. Behaviorally. Eventually, in order to settle the issue, I think we have to come to a place where we have a level of appeal in terms of deciding what we do and don't do. In my opinion, your opinion, Jess's opinion, it's likely that we will differ on some issues. How do we settle it? Who's right? Who's wrong? Or is anyone right? Or are we all wrong? I call that common ground. You find common ground. Common ground is always there if you work hard enough to find it. One of the best places I know to find it is called the Bible. Oh, yeah. That is. It all comes around back to that. Yeah. If we're willing to listen to and really want to find out what the real issue is and what we're supposed to do, it's not like it's unknown. We sometimes act as if, you know, I wish I did this. I wish. It's there. That's why he gave us the word. What we need to know ultimately, either directly or principally speaking, is there in terms of our actions and so forth. You know, we're studying Leviticus now in the Bible study at church, and it just has a bunch of laws there. Sometimes when you're in upon something like this, it's kind of like, this is quite mundane, you know? But once you start facing it with the right attitude, it can be helpful to you. Because even there, it shows us and tells us a lot about what God expects. And if we really want to know, it's there. And when you go to Romans, I mean, Paul enlarges on the law and liberty and all of that. The point is, I guess, is that if we really want to know how to get along, it's not like it's a mystery as we sometimes approach it and pretend. It's there. We know how to act. It's just a matter of whether or not we want to do His will or our will. And naturally, we want to do our own will. But are we willing to submit to His will? Not my will, but that will be done. So are we willing to submit to that? You know what I'm saying? Yes. No, I do. You know, you're in charge of the education ministry as a church. Am I saying that correctly? Yeah. Tell me about that and what that involves. Well, really, it's kind of like a broad cover. And whatever is like training and teaching and whether it's Sunday school and discipleship, principally Sunday school discipleship comes under that, or the teaching, the training elements of the church. And we have good people, thankfully, in those positions, which makes my job almost very easy. I really do appreciate what they do, the directors under the educational aspects of the church. Because it really does make my job easy. Because I've seen positions where you have a lot of infighting and a lot of struggling and scuffling and pushing and people trying to get noticed in positions and all of that instead of doing what they need to do. So I congratulate the directors and what they do. Because it really makes things run smoother than they would otherwise. So what would be the goal? What is the main goal of that ministry, short term and long term? What is it you're trying to accomplish with that? Well, the goal would be to explain and expound upon the Word on a level where all of God's people, regardless of age and development, can hear the Word and understand it and learn it. Another would be discipleship. That's the bottom line, is discipleship. Getting people taught and trained in the Word and encourage and challenge and support them in living it out. Okay. That's really it, discipleship. That's what it's about. Being taught in the Word and helped to live it. Because, again, being taught in it, that's important. But that's not where it ends. It ends where the rubber meets the road, again, living it out. As they say in today's lingo, that part. Okay. Definitely. Your son would know that. So, in general, as you train other people, do you train others to teach also? Yeah. Okay. And so, how do you know whether that teaching has reached the goal that you wanted to teach? I'm just trying to get an idea about how you measure that, how you know whether you need to improve or not improve. What types of guidelines are you following? You can kind of watch and see whether people follow what you said, what you lay out there. But the bottom line is, I think, in terms of how you really determine in the long run and even in the short run, is to see and change lives. Okay. Change lives. Lives are not being changed where the goal is not being met. Okay. And that's why it's important not only to teach it, you know, but to live it. Because many times, students will emulate their teacher. Absolutely. You know, it sets the bar, and the students will attempt to live up to that. Absolutely. So, really, the key is seeing changed lives. That's it. That's it. That's the test. And that takes a really long time. That might take a while. Yeah. Yeah. I tell you, growing up in the Deep South, and if you didn't have parents, and I was a child, and Jesse can identify with that. So, you didn't have the regular mom and dad in the house. And I learned much of what I learned from teachers. Teachers in school, teachers in school, teachers in regular school. And I think that there's probably not a greater profession than to teach. Yeah. It's a privilege and honor to teach. Because, to your point, you can change someone's life with that. I can remember my favorite teachers, even to this day, back in high school and junior high school. So, I think a lot of times, teachers don't really get the, in my judgment, don't get the respect that they should get, you know. But I think that they have an extraordinary impact on the lives of others. Definitely. And we can all cite some of the teachers that impressed us and caused us to gravitate toward a more preferred lifestyle. Yes. And so, we can look back on some of those now. And so can I. I'm sure we all can. Oh, yeah. As a matter of fact, my father was actually a teacher. Oh, yeah. And I had that benefit growing up. He was a model teacher, you know, Director of Training for Services and, you know, Chairman of the Deacon Board and all of that. And to both of your points there, you know, he is someone that I often try to emulate. He has big shoes to fill. But I agree. Yeah. There's a quote that is by Craig Bloomberg. And it talks about how the church is supposed to act and I model, of course, it's the Lord. And sometimes people are not as easy to get along with, you know, even in the church. But he says there, he says, church should be a place where people gather and get along with each other who have no merely human reason for doing so. Now that's interesting. How does that happen in reality, Doc? Again, it happens. Sometimes it doesn't. But when it does happen, it happens by us putting the Lord first. Yes. Like, there's no way I can deal with this guy here, this person. But we want to emulate Christ and forgive people. It happens through forgiveness. It happens through recognizing that some people just haven't gotten there yet. They're not getting there. And some won't ever get there. And recognizing that some people may be there, they're not even saved yet. And so there's all kinds of issues, underlying issues. But the idea is that we are, the church is supposed to be a place where people at least are learning to have a relationship that expresses the fact that they have met the living Christ. That's the term. Lord, help me. I think the reality is that we're all on different parts of that journey. Yes. And I think sometimes, my impression has been, and like yourself, I've been in church all my life. I'm 76 years old now. My father was a minister. My uncle was a minister. My stepfather was a minister. So I've been around preachers for a long time. But if there's anything that I've learned, it's that we are on different parts of that journey, different lengths of that journey. And we have to be respectful of that. What I've seen sometimes is the ones who are farther along that journey, more mature, will sometimes be less patient with those who are still learning the lessons that we all learned maybe 20 years ago, as compared to being more patient with those individuals. Have you seen that? Or what's been your experience? That's interesting. As a matter of fact, my father was chairman of a deacon board, too. So I guess we are, and one of his brothers was a pastor. So we all kind of have a similar background in that respect. That's interesting that you would say that, because a person who has more exposure and hopefully has gone further, but fails to honor those who are less developed, may not be as developed as he thinks that he is. Maybe in some areas. But in that area, he or she needs to hone it up a bit. You know what I'm saying? If you were developed enough, you'd say, well, I understand. I see. And I'm going to help this person in this area. As opposed to kind of kicking them through the curve. Right. And being critical and dismissing them. Yes. Doctor, do you think that they forgot where they came from? And where God has brought them from? Yeah. Sometimes we forget. You know, because when you look back, you know some of the things we are critical of is something that we ourselves, at least at one time, if we're not still involved to some level, we have been. So if not that, it was something else, just as egregious, or more so. So we all, in other words, we all have some issues. Or have had and will have. Absolutely. And judge others because we ourselves have issues. And so we have to love one another. And that's one reason I made that quote from Craig Bloomberg there, is because it should The church should be a place where people gather and get along with each other. It should be. An underlying should be. In a perfect world, and you know, whenever anybody else starts with the question about being in a perfect world, that can go anywhere. But in a perfect world, how would you, how would you make things better for our youth? In a perfect world. If you had the power to set up things any way you wanted to set them up, and to give advice about anything, how would you improve the development and the growth of our young people today? That's a good question. You know, because I was listening to the news last night, and there's a, I forgot the neighborhood, but it's an upscale neighborhood, but they're saying people are breaking in folks' homes, they're just doing some weird stuff like burglaries, even when people are home in some cases, stealing cars, breaking in homes, stealing precious possessions. And so there's so much going on in this time. And I was, there's a verse I've been reflecting on lately. And it says that in the last days, difficult times will come. I say will, definitely. In the last days, difficult times will arise. And so basically, I guess the best thing would be to try to shelter them to some degree from a lot of the atrocious things that are occurring in these last days. And yet, at the same time, they are more exposed than ever. Yes. I see my grandkids, they have these computers, and they stay on them all day long, and they can, if you don't watch them, you know, tell them what they're watching, that the games that they play, they're violent. There's so much going on that you have, you want to shelter them, but you can't shelter them too much because they have to face reality. Exactly. So I guess what I'm suggesting is that you have to find a place of some degree of safety and yet a real place. Right. Where they can grow and at the same time walk along with them and be advised that there are some terrible things going on. Right. It's a balance. You have to find that balance. You have to find that balance and walk along with them. And don't just throw them out there and say, go get them, boys and girls. Exactly. That's what a lot of times we do, and we're so busy trying to make a living. And I'm just saying, people generally, if it's busy making a living and trying to do our own things that we like to do, our own fun or whatever, and the kids kind of get dropped into Christ. You've got to really walk closer to them than even we used to and yet give them enough but not too much leeway to grow up and to face reality because once they grow up, they still going to have to face the real world. But if we give them the right building blocks, and those should be principally speaking based on the word, they will be able to make right choices. If they do or do not, it won't be because I didn't know. You've given them a foundation, a biblical foundation. So they have a firm basis upon which to build their lives on as opposed to, man, I wish someone would have told me that. You know, that is so true. There was a patient, a couple, who were very, very concerned about their grandchild. And they consulted with a child development specialist. And what she said was, you know, because a lot of times we may not have ideal moms and dads, you know, growing up for whatever reason. But what this child development specialist says, if there's one stable adult, just one, in that child's life, it could be a parent, it could be a grandparent, it could be an aunt or uncle, I don't know, next door neighbor, teacher, but you got to have one. But if that child can have one stable adult, the kid will be okay. And I always remember that. I just thought that was just a brilliant statement. And so I share that, that certainly as we get older, we worry like crazy. You know, I've got six grandkids also. But you need that one stable adult. You know, hopefully God-fearing, Christian, strong, respectful. And I think about growing up in the foster homes, my stable adults were teachers in school. You know, junior high school, high school, whatever. And back then, they treated you like they were your parents. Maybe they can't do that today, but back then, they did. And they would pull you off to the side and say, you know, you're not supposed to be acting like that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Yeah. I hear you. So, yeah, we're all on the same page. If you, what do you see happening in the next four or five years with the church? I think in such a short term, unless there's some tragedy or dramatic occurrence, in the short term, I don't really see a lot going on that's going to change significantly. And so I think in order for change to occur, usually something dramatic happens. You know, even like COVID, you adopted. Like COVID, it caused a lot of changes. It was devastating to us medically, but it caused a lot of changes. Usually, change occurs, it seems to me, the most violent change, the most noticeable, progressive change happens when something creates it. For example, Pete, the work schedule that people hold now, working from home, that's one thing they would never have allowed before, but it's on a larger scale now. They have ways of measuring what people can do without having a supervisor with them all day. And they travel in and out. You know, we can do Zoom instead of all three of us driving to the church and sitting around. And so it's things like that. There's a lot of changes. So the point is that I don't really think a lot's going to happen in the short term. People are going to continue to do what they're doing now, I believe, unless the Lord comes back or something like that. I really don't. Well, okay. Let's sort of switch gears. The moral character of people in the country. And he's talking to a number of outstanding religious leaders to get an idea about how to make things better. What would be some advice you would give him to do in terms of helping to make the lives of people in the country better? In other words, to help people to be happier. What advice would you give him as a spiritual leader to help people to be happier in their lives? Okay. Let me read a two-page, two-script, two verses from 2 Timothy 2, verses 14 and 15. Okay. He said, "...of these things and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrinkle about words which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth." And I think that one of the things that we used to do, too, even in schools, was we used to have a devotion. We used to be able to use the Bible. And we weren't afraid in the old days, when I was going to school, to allow people to reflect on if they chose to, the word. When it was appropriate. I mean, it wasn't like a Bible school, but it was allowed, you know, as advice and so forth. And so I think one of the things we need to lighten up on is don't be afraid of God. Don't be afraid of the word. And train people along the line, because a lot of the principles, biblical principles, really are helpful. A lot, they are. But I mean, helpful in terms of having people to get along and to be progressive and move and treat one another right. Really, that's what it's all about, treating people right, respecting other people's property. A lot of the things that are going on that are destroying the country are diametrically opposed to the word of God. This is my point. And if people were encouraged to live according to the scripture, we would have a much better country. We wouldn't have people breaking in folks' house, stealing their cars, beating them up on the transit, the buses in L.A. Folks are just about every week, someone's getting stabbed or someone's getting assaulted. And usually, oftentimes, it seems like the person that's being assaulted, they weren't even doing anything. And so a lot of the people have mental issues. There's some of that. And there's some chase every week, every day almost, a car chase or something going on. And a lot of this stuff wouldn't happen if people had the right principles that they were living by. And I'm saying that the Bible is one of the best ways I know to teach people principles of living together, living together. There's a lot of practical application. Thank you. Yeah, there you go. That's what I was trying to say. Practical application. Yes. Okay. Okay. Good. Good. Good. So what do you see happening in the next year or so with your ministry? What would you like to see happen with your ministry specifically in the next year or so? Well, I'd like to see more of the same, but even reaching out. I noticed that we are getting a few more people from the community. I would like to see some of the people who are coming out from the community, especially those who are not well indoctrinated, maybe have something specifically designed. And I know we have new members, even in large on such aspects, especially for those who may not be indoctrinated, and help them to speed up their disciple blend so that they can be better stewards, not just someone who comes and shows up on Sunday, but have a real understanding of, where am I now? Who am I in Christ? And what is my role according to my giftedness? What is my spiritual gift? You know, there's one writer that suggested that in terms of our change and growth, another thing is that we tend to work on our weaknesses. If we're serious about getting change and growth, we tend to naturally, we tend to gravitate toward, okay, this is what I'm weak on. I'm going to work on that. But he said a better result would be to find out what is my giftedness and talents and ability, and work on those. And work on what you're good at. And improve on that, because that's where you're blessed at. And so help people to discover their gifts, especially new members and people who have not even would have been around to help them to discover their gifts, and put them in a place of service and let them realize that they have purpose. They have purpose, just like the rest of us. There's a philosophy, which is exactly what you're saying, that we tend to think that we grow and get better by work, by improving our weaknesses. But the very opposite is true, and it's called Strength Finder. That it's our strengths that have gotten us to where we are today. It's your strength that's gotten you as the director of education at the church. It's your strength that's gotten you the different positions that you've held in terms of responsibility. And the youth example of the kid that comes home with mommy and daddy, and the kid has gotten a 96 on his exam, on his math exam. And the kid's feeling very good and shows the 96, because he's the only one that got the 96 out of the class of 30. But then the dad says, but why didn't you get 100? You know, it's only four more points, it's only four more points. And we humans, and I think it's part of our human nature from childhood, we worry about what we don't have. We worry about what we didn't get. And what this philosophy says is your weaknesses and strengths will always be with you. They will always be with us. But what we want to do is to concentrate on the strengths. That's it. Because the strengths is what moves us forward. The weaknesses are there, and we can work on them, but we don't want to spend a disproportionate amount of time anguishing over not getting those other four points. You got 96 on a math exam. Be happy about that. I think part of it, I don't know whether it's the way we sort of grew up or our society, I don't know what it is, but I agree with the philosophy that we need to be more positive than negative. And it's not what other people do to us, it's what we do to ourselves. It's not what, you know, the person next door is. We tend to be ourselves worst critics. We beat upon ourselves all the time. And there may be certain reasons for that. But after a certain period of time, it ends up being counterproductive. And that's really why, you know, doing these podcasts and other things, we try to emphasize the importance of mental, physical, and spiritual strength. They aren't individual. They all work together. They all work together. Exactly. Yes. So if you wanted to, say, of the 75,000 people we said were downloading or the downloads that we're having with this podcast, if you had to send them a message and give them some words of wisdom, what would that message be and what would those words of wisdom be? Well, I'm not the wisest man, so I often quote others. That's okay. I thought your middle name was Solomon. I used to listen to J. Bernard McGee. I know you all know him. Oh, yeah. Yes, sir. Old Don Homeboy. Oh, yeah. Country preacher sounding guy. He was smart as a whip, though. Don't let that. Where the rubber meets the road. And this is something he said. You know, we worry about a lot of stuff. I would suggest that people turn things over to the Lord. And I know that's not easy or safe and done. But when we are challenged, when we are struggling, and even when we are celebrating, you know, keep the Lord in the center of it all. And by keeping the Lord, I mean pray regularly, read your scriptures regularly, you know, do your Bible study, you know, get involved with a fellowship, a congregation that's going to move you forward and support you in that. Because you're going to have pushback. You're going to have challenges. You're going to have naysayers. You're going to have all of that. But you want to connect with people that are going to support you in your walk and keep Christ at the center. Now he says this, quote, Life and death are in the hands of a sovereign God. When you and I rebel against his decision, it is simply too bad for us. This is his universe, not ours. It is God's church, not ours. The hand of a sovereign God moves in the church. So his hand is going to move no matter what we do. He's running things. Well, I know we think we're in charge, but that writer is just saying, McGee is telling, God really is ultimately in charge. And I think if we connect with him, we're going to end up in the right place. If we choose to do it our own way, we're going to end up somewhere else. And wherever it is, it's not going to be as good as being with the Lord. So what would I advise? Long story short, I would advise connect with the Lord through his word, through prayer, through discipleship, and by joining others who have the same vision and goals that you have that can support you in your walk. Because there's nothing easy at walk. You need that support. You need to support others as well. And you need their support. I know that's a wrong one. No, no, no, no. Well, thank you very much for your words of wisdom and sharing your precious time with us. We've learned a lot. And you've been very gracious to answer our elongated questions and et cetera, et cetera. Jesse, do you have any comments? Well, yeah. Actually, along the lines of the golden nuggets of wisdom there, and I too am a fan of the great Dr. J. Bernard McGee, I wonder do you have any scriptures, the scriptures that would fall under the category of wisdom in either health, wealth, and or wisdom itself? Something that people can hold on to and help them through whatever they might be going through. And not necessarily something bad. Even something good. To encourage and to strengthen their resolve. Well, there's so many. But again, a couple I've been reflecting on, I tend to reflect on two or three during the week. One this week I was reflecting on is Ecclesiastes, a book that you hardly ever hear from. Ecclesiastes 12, 13. And that's a wisdom book, you know. Speaking of smiling. Yeah, 12, 13. He said, and this is not a direct quote, but let's consider what the whole purpose of this, he's given all this knowledge, what's the purpose of all of this knowledge in the long run anyway? He said, what is the whole purpose of it? And so he boils it down to one sentence. He said, well, the whole purpose of man is to what? To work. Well, that. To love the Lord and to serve Him. Okay. You know? And let me just read it. I thought we were finished, but I don't want to hold you up. That's okay. We've got time. There's two. It's Ecclesiastes, if anyone can find it. I think it's in here somewhere. Ecclesiastes 12, 13 says, and this is the NASB, so it's not as fancy as the KJV, but it says the conclusion, when all has been heard is, quote, feel God and keep His commandments. Because this applies to every person. So what is the conclusion of all of the wisdom and the teaching and the training and the discipleship? The conclusion, when you wrap it all up, when all has been heard, it is fear God, and that idea of fear God doesn't necessarily mean shaking and trembling your boots. But it's to obey Him and keep His commandments. Because this applies to every person. That's it. That's it. Psalm 115 is another place of wisdom. It says, and I'm not going to read all the verses, but the first six verses of Psalm 115, Not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to Your name give glory because of Your lovingkindness, because of Your truth. Why should the nation say, we're not, is there a God? But our God is in the heavens. He does whatever He pleases. Their idols are silver and gold, the work of man's hand. And it goes on to talk about they have eyes, they can't see, they have ears, they can't hear, they have a mouth, they can't talk. If you want to read that Psalm 115, that's what it talks about. But the idea is, again, our whole duty is to fear God and to keep His commandments. Bottom line. That's wisdom. All right. On that note, we will end. Thank you so much, Reverend Francis. God bless you and may you continue to do your extraordinary work and leading as you have been. And as we always like to say, we like to tell all our listeners to be the change they expect to see in the world. Thank you and have a great day. Thank you all for having me. God bless you. All right. God bless you too. Take care.