Q2-20080627-Larry_Rosenberg-IMSRC-taking_a_fresh_look_at_life_on_retreat_part_4-3767 Leandra Tejedor

Talk: 20080627-Larry_Rosenberg-IMSRC-taking_a_fresh_look_at_life_on_retreat_part_4-3767 Leandra Tejedor.json Start_time: 00:45:12 Display_question: I would like to share that I learned what a mess my mind is. Keyword_search: mind, mess, love, IMS, Buddha, Jesus, wisdom, way of negation, Vietnam, war, non-violent, Gandhi, approval, meditator, order, disorder Question_content: Questioner: I just wanted to thank you; it’s been a very interesting week. And I just wanted to bring up basically, I learned that my mind was a mess when I got here, and my mind was a mess during the retreat, and that my mind is still a mess. And all I can do is watch, and maybe speak…say a little bit less about what’s on it sometimes, and I think that's going to be incredibly valuable for me. Larry: Okay. If I could link both of them, the practice would be, be where you are. And instead of trying to be loving, and trying to get love, there's something in back of your question. Find out what that is. There's something in back of it. But let's say you say I was a mess. I am a mess. Questioner: My mind was a mess. Larry: Okay. In the early days of this place, IMS. We used to answer the phone, I'm a mess. Seriously. Okay, the starting point of the practice is, throw the word mess out. Is that which is going on in your life, that enables you to use that word, and feel you know what you're talking about. It means something to you, and it's not vague. A general order, I mean, genuine order, comes out of seeing disorder, not by trying to impose someone else's. The Buddha said, Jesus said, try to squash yourself into someone's model, about how you're supposed to be. Break_line: But at this approach, there are guidelines, too, of course, but the emphasis of the wisdom approach, is you always start where you are, and it's called a way of negation. Rather than trying to what's the opposite of a mess? I'm okay, I don't know. Whatever it is. Instead of trying to be that, you negate, for example, if you want to be nonviolent, many of us were against the war. We were incredibly violent against ending the Vietnam War. In those meetings, I think it was worse than Vietnam sometimes. The approach is not to… it's not to try to be nonviolent, but to start where you are, which is you are violent, you are aggressive, let's say. And out of that can come a genuine nonviolence, not an ideologically, an ideological one, where you try to uphold a certain ideal, that you think you should be like, and it's fragile. Break_line: For example, Gandhi did a lot of inner work, and he held millions of people together. Once he was killed, it was a bloodbath, because the people were held by his inner development, but they didn't have it. His nonviolence was something he had. It was genuine, much more, and he held everyone in order. And then when he was gone, it wasn't in any inner development, to the extent that they could do it on their own. And we know it happened. So, start where you are, and it sounds like you are doing that. You're comfortable with it, just the way you described it. But now don't become the characterization, the label, the diagnostic category. Just take it moment by moment. See what's there. And as you start getting to see that, that starts clarifying itself, and you may find one day that you don't feel like you're a mess. The order comes out of seeing disorder, in other words. Questioner: And when I mean a mess, I don't mean something so terrible. You know, but I continually see myself wanting, and wanting, and wanting. Like wanting your approval. I want you guys to tell me that I did…I was the best meditator. Larry: What do you think? Yeah, okay. Questioner: Or seeing you walk, oh there’s the teacher. I’m back into my…. Larry: You need to talk to my wife. She'll just tell you what a jerk I am. Mainly my job is, taking out the garbage, here I'm a big wise guy. I go home, I'm nobody. Okay, but look, you can want that. You can't help your mind wanting that. But that's the stuff of practice. Not ridding yourself of, but seeing it. Now, just so you understand, we can't satisfy certain things. There are no certificates, there are no degrees. We don't write letters of recommendation. There are no transcripts. In fact, we have absolutely no authority or power over you. And you've been here doing it yourself. You're doing it to yourself. You could have left anytime you want. We're just sitting here, and doing what we do. So, if you put all this on us that's… don't blame me for your trip. End_time: 00:50:55