Q2-19890329-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-coming_to_terms_with_the_nature_of_the_body-1564 Leandra Tejedor

Talk: 19890329-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-coming_to_terms_with_the_nature_of_the_body-1564 Leandra Tejedor Start_time: 01:00:34 Display_question: I resonate with watching thoughts come and go, and when I feel anxiety I just want to get rid of it, and I am trying to find the middle ground. Keyword_search: anxiety, impersonation, President Reagan, identify, mind, body, vipassana, attachment, suffering, world on fire, Buddha, greed, hatred, delusion, dharma, satipanya, breathing, breather, calm, stillness, thought, enlightenment, wisdom, freedom, nobody, happiness, joy, Life magazine, California Question_content: Questioner: I really resonate when you said, not to eradicate it, or say, I'm not going to do that anymore. Larry: You're not going to do what anymore? Questioner: I'm not going to stop this. I'm just going to watch this. And then what comes up to me, I'm filled with that, is a great anxiety of feeling it. And then what? Larry: Learn from it. Questioner: (inaudible) Right, but then the anxiety wants to get rid of it. I’m trying to be in the middle ground. Larry: I understand. Questioner: I’m trying to be in the middle ground. Larry: Don't try to be in a middle ground. See, that's an impersonation. As we're trying to do an imitation like someone would imitate a President Reagan or ex-President Reagan. You laugh. We all laugh because it's close, but we know it's not President Reagan. Don't do an impersonation of what you think a person does not identify with their mind or body is. Break_line: Okay, let me give you an example of…It's not clear? In other words, don't create some ideal, and then sort of harm yourself endlessly trying, seeing that it's beyond your reach. In Vipassana, we start where we are. Let me give you an example of how this process might unfold in a way that could be healthy. It has to do with learning. You see, let's say you do whatever you do, and we all do as we prepare in the morning, and you begin to notice that there's anxiety in getting ready for the day, about how you look. Oh, I didn't get enough sleep. There are bags under my eyes. So, we have to do something about that camouflage in some way, whatever it is. Break_line: Now we begin to see when there is an attachment to something, let's say when we hold on to something, or when we don't like something, and try to push it away, that there's a price to it. We see that as painful. Now, we have no control over that. That is, the pain comes up. Let's say your reaction of anxiety. Could you pass a law and say, okay, now that I heard that talk at CIMC, I'm not going to be anxious anymore. I'm just going to get ready in the morning and I'll try to be attractive, but there won't be any I or mine in it, and so I won't be anxious. You can try to do that, but it probably won't work. Break_line: But what we can do is see we're not at war with this process. What we're doing is… the process will get flushed out by life itself. There's no shortage of opportunities to see vanity at work, or to see eye in mind at work. So, let's say one of the things that we learn is that when we attach to something. Let's say we attach to a particular aspect of the body, and then maybe we don't have it, or maybe we do have it and then we lose it, that we suffer. So, we start to say, oh, it's like… see, the learning mechanism is a very simple one in our practice. And it's like if you stick your hand in the fire, and you get burned after a while, you stop doing that. Now we're getting burned. As the Buddha once put it, the whole world is on fire. And what he meant was, it's on fire with greed, hatred, and delusion. It's an inner fire. We're being scorched. What the purpose of dharma is, dharma is cooling. Dharma is to put out these fires. It's cooling to come to some peace. Break_line: So, one way in which we learn is that we behave in a certain way. We get hurt. And if you're willing to see if there's satipanya in the moment that it happens, if you're there with it, the attention, the hurt comes up. The grasping of the hurt comes up and the wise attention is right there with it. There's a learning that goes on. Something is absorbed and over a period of time, more and more. Now, then there's another side. The times when we don't identify, don't get attached are some of our happiest moments. Break_line: Or let's say, for example, in meditation sometimes perhaps some of you have had this experience. You're sitting in meditation, and perhaps you're following your breath, and suddenly thought goes into abeyance. There's no thought at all for, let's say, a few minutes. And also, there's an experience of how happy you are. But now satipanya, sometimes can see. Sure, one of the reasons you're happy is you're not identifying with anything. You just are. There's just pure being. You're just sitting or with the breath itself. And try this one. You don't need to use unloveliness to help come to this objectivity. You can just use almost anything. So, let's say the breaths, if you follow the breath, and I don't know what levels of practice people are, but if you follow the breath, this is not beyond anyone's grasp. At a certain point, your ability to stay with the breath improves. Of course, if you do it, it will get better, stronger. And the time comes where there's just a very smooth, effortless breathing. There's an experience of the breath. Perhaps there's a calm and a stillness, but also, you'll see that there's no breather. Breathing is happening, but there is no breather. Break_line: Now, when I say there's no breather, what I mean is, what would a breather be? A breather is some thought in the mind, or some picture in the mind. I'm breathing right now. Isn't this nice? I have such a smooth, calm breath. That's a thought. See, there's no entity known as a breather. There's definitely breathing. That's indisputable. But everything else is extra. It's contrived. It's fashioned in the mind. So, it's strange, you see, because that's part of why we're terrified of enlightenment, because we're being asked to let go of that which is most familiar to us, and also, the greatest burden, which is what we think we are. Enlightenment is becoming a complete, and total, and utter nobody. Do you want to be a nobody? But again, it's not the idea of being a nobody, because that's another thing. Somebody, nobody. It's the same game. It's just when you eat, you eat. When you breathe, you breathe. What else is happening? And from the point of view of wisdom, all these other things that the mind makes up, about what's happening are blocking us, from freedom. They're holding us. Break_line: So, you're learning negatively by seeing that when you attach to something, and create a self out of, let's say, your body, you suffer. And then you see in those moments when you don't do that, that it feels as great relief, and you feel good. Oh, I get it. Stick my hand in the fire. Ow. Don't stick my hand in the fire. So, I'm okay. And so, it's kind of, little by little, putting those two together, beginning to taste a higher happiness, that comes that has nothing to do with identification with the body. Break_line: So much of what of what we call happiness is, when we finally get the body to be the way we want it to be, perfectly dressed, and outfitted, and the right weight, and the right hair looks just perfect, and, you know, the whole thing. And then somebody says, oh, you're just looking wonderful today. I am? Oh, yes. Oh, thank you. And what we're used to, is of getting our happiness, and our unhappiness, outside of ourselves. Something happens outside of ourself… people, climate, money, boss, whatever it is, but the day comes in meditation when you see that there's an inherent happiness. There's enough happiness to go around for all of us. It's just a question of do you want it? Help yourself. It's free, it's just waiting. Any limit on it? No. Help yourself. Break_line: But where is it? You already have it. These other things produce a certain limited kind of happiness. Now more and more as you taste an inner joy, that comes from any spiritual development, then of course, dependency to attach, and to want to get things from the body is less you're not as dependent on that. If my body is beautiful or handsome, I'm happy. If it's not, I'm unhappy. Well, then what's going to happen as we get older? Break_line: I remember some years ago on the cover of maybe Life, or some magazine, it had a young girl in a garbage can. In the garbage can, and it said 21, and washed up. It was in California. It was saying that the youth culture was so strong in California, that at age 21, women were already washed up. You weren't young enough. How are we going to live out the rest of our days in this struggle with nature? End_time: 01:09:42