Q3-19850218-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-dialogue_problems_with_practice-1523 Leandra Tejedor (1)

Talk: 19850218-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-dialogue_problems_with_practice-1523 Leandra Tejedor Start_time: 15:12 Display_question: What is the difference between inquiry and thinking in meditation? Keyword_search: inquiry, thinking, walking meditation, anger, trigger, psychoanalyzed, confusion, reaction, introspection, wallet, money, exploration, investigate, healthy mind, energy, calm, Buddhist, seven factors of enlightenment, balance, equanimity, sitting practice, avoiding, pause, suffering, simple listening, dissolved, nourishment, clarity, letting go, Western mind, scientific culture, motivate, intellectual, Asian teachers, Ajahn Chah, handful of leaves, India, crossword puzzles, freedom Question_content: Questioner: I feel a little bit of confusion about…when you spoke about inquiry, and the difference between that, and thinking. I’ll give you an example, when I was doing the walking meditation before, a certain person, I have no idea who was, did something that you know…I just felt really angry towards, and it was something completely insignificant, on this person's part. Totally my anger. And so, I had to stop my walking, because it was just this anger just came up. So, I watched the anger for a while, and I asked… and I didn’t...I kind of asked myself, you know what the anger…what it felt like? That was kind of like a question for me, to help me tune into what it was. And I just kind of watched what it felt like. And then I had some confusion about… there was part of me that kind of wanted to know, why did this then trigger me? Like I really… when I heard what did it feel like? I heard a voice that said something that I thought was very… significant, and I could have psychoanalyzed that for several hours, and I didn't know if I should ask myself more questions. What I did was…I just… because I felt confusion, I just listened to the voice, I heard what I said, I thought wow, I can't believe it. I said that, and I went back to the walking, but I don’t…you know I'd be interested in finding out why I had that reaction, and I didn't know really how to pursue it. Larry: I think it's true you could spend a lot of time psychoanalyzing, as you put it, or let's say introspection, and I'm not saying that isn't worthwhile to do sometimes, but the skills that we're developing here are somewhat different, by in large. Let me…I think we went over it once. I'm not sure if there's this discussion group, or the other one about inquiry. Let's say what part does thought play an inquiry or use words? Let's say what is this? Or why am I feeling this? Or whatever. The example… was let's say you lose your wallet, with let's say, a fair amount of money. You're at a party and you lose your wallet or your purse. And at first, it's verbal, where is it? Where's my money? Where's my wallet? And you're poking around, looking under cushions, and checking in pockets, and asking people. There's a lot of thinking, but at a certain point the words stop, and there's just the looking, with real interest, to find out, not necessarily any words at all, but just an intense exploration of the environment, to find, to see what's happening. Break_line: So that sometimes words can be, a prelude into it. But I think you'll find more and more, you don't need words. Okay, when should one inquire instead of just this…now, by inquiry here, it's still the looking that we're talking about. Investigate. In this particular approach to meditation, one quality of a very healthy mind, is a mind that's able to investigate. It's not the only quality, and we're developing that. Another quality is, the mind is a healthy mind has…the ability to…it has energy, it also is calm. In the Buddhist language, it's often referred to as, the seven factors of enlightenment. Break_line: In other words, they're mind qualities that we're developing. We're laying the groundwork for enlightenment to happen. So that a mind, that's what this training is. We're doing this without, even if I don't say it, that's what we're doing. We're developing these qualities, by doing this, day in, and day out. And those qualities are in balance. Equanimity is another one of those qualities. So that… having the ability to investigate, is very useful. Because there are times in life, where we need to investigate, mainly when things are problematic. Break_line: That is, if something is going wrong, and hints in the practice, if something comes up over, and over, and over again, you watch it goes, comes back over. It's usually… probably a good chance that some inquiry is needed, and could be helpful. And usually, not always, but let's say, very often you'll find as you look, if it's coming up over, and over again, there's something in life that we should be doing, but we're not doing. Or there's something that we should stop doing, but we are doing. And it connects the sitting practice, with the rest of our life. You know there may be…because if you don't attend to it, of course, you know, you watch it, you see it, it falls away, but you haven't taken care of the root of it, which is, whatever it is that's happening. Something that needs to be said to someone, a bill that has to be paid, a job that has to be quit, or a job interview that has to, confidence needs to be developed to go for. Do you understand? And if that's not looked at, it's going to keep coming back, because we're not dealing with it. We're avoiding it. So it comes back over, and over, and over. Or unusual things come up in the mind sometimes. You look at them a certain way. Break_line: It's a thin line between just the real attention that we're developing, and investigation. And sometimes… I think it's a very useful…it’s very useful to… when you find yourself suffering, because that's so central in what we're doing, is to pause, and whether with words, or not, to begin it to say, why am I suffering right now? You know, what is this? But then it's not… chronic introspection. It's not trying to think it through. Because the old mind will give you the answers. It will come out of memory. You know solutions that you've gotten from psychology textbooks, or whatever. It's more, simple listening. In other words, you've put it on the agenda, Why am I suffering right now? And then just let the suffering tell you. In other words, really feel it, whatever that is. And when there's that kind of listening, that's an investigative…what is this? Who am I? But it's not endlessly thinking about it, which maybe have some value, too, but that's not how I'm using it here. So, I think you did fine. You paused; you explored it. Break_line: Now, in terms of finding out the actual reason why all that happened, sometimes that can be a…really complicate the practice, in ways that are troublesome. Because many of the problems here are dissolved. They're not solved. It's sort of like you see through them, and they fall away, and that's the end of it. And if you have a compulsion to endlessly go back, and get all the variables and factors, that might be scientifically interesting, but it's really slowing the process down a lot. Okay, the thinking mind may need that kind of nourishment. You may have to give it to it for a while, but the time comes where the clarity, and freshness that comes from the letting go, is far more appealing, than verbal explanations of why what is. Intellectual people particularly have that real need for explanations. Break_line: It's a big difference between the way… in the Orient, they don't teach to give you many explanations, and the Western mind gets very frustrated. It won't move until it's been told, why we're doing, what we're doing. In the Orient it's the other way around. Just do it, and then you'll find out yourself, so you understand it later on. But many Asian teachers have found that Westerners become like mules unless you give them some explanations, they just can't move. And so, yeah, okay, I'll give you a preview. Like you know…and you're told, so that it'll motivate you, so you'll do it. But we have… it's a scientific culture. We have a very strong need for explanations. You can be very clear, and very free, and not have a lot of information, and not be well educated, and not be intellectual, and kind of know nothing. There one teacher who came here, Ajahn Chah. He's a hick he doesn't know anything, but he's free, and you can feel it. He just knows a few things, and he does it, and he's just having a good time in life you know. Break_line: In fact, at one point, the Buddha thought enough of this whole issue to go into it, at some depth. He took a handful of leaves, and he said, are there more leaves in my hand, or in all the forests of India? Something like this? I said, oh, of course there are more leaves in all the forests of India. He said, well, what I am teaching you is approximately, it's like what I have in my hand, and all that I know, that I'm not bothering to teach you, is like all the leaves in India, but what's in my hand, are the teachings that are practical, that lead to freedom, and the rest of it doesn't. So there's no point in burdening you with it. I think a lot of explanations are like that. They're comforting, they're interesting, you know help you with crossword puzzles, eventually. But I don't know that they're needed, or if they lead to freedom, they may slow the process down quite a bit. 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