interview with Carolyn Gallup Chapter 9 Marriage in later years

Jenny Sparks and Carolyn Gallop discuss the attributes of a successful marriage, including communication, respect, and shared interests. They also talk about navigating transitions such as becoming empty nesters and retirement. They emphasize the importance of service in a marriage and how it can bring joy and strengthen the relationship. They agree that the last third of marriage is an opportunity to strengthen marital bonds and deepen spiritual resolve. Hi, this is Jenny Sparks, and this is Episode 4 in a series of podcasts that I'm doing through the book, Successful Marriages and Family Proclamation Principles on Research Perspectives by Alan J. Hawkins, David C. Dolaheit, and Thomas W. Drape. And today, we're going to talk about marriage through the ages, and I'm here with Carolyn Gallop. And I'm Carolyn Gallop, and we've been here in Idaho for about 13 years, and we're getting ready to celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary this summer. We have four children and five grandchildren. Great. And we've been in the same ward, even though it's split, for quite a few years. And I've run into you in the temple, you volunteer in the temple sometimes, but I'm just excited to come here and have this opportunity to ask you some of these questions. So we'll start right off. My first question is, what do you feel are some of the attributes of a successful marriage? Okay. So the first caveat is that I'm still learning, but I think that communication is a very important part of marriage, and we have to be able to feel safe to communicate our thoughts and feelings. And we have to be able to develop ideas between each other and just be able to strengthen our connection by talking to each other. Yeah. That's true. And I've talked a lot about communication, and coming at communication from both sides have to come at it at a certain honesty and compassion, too. Another thing that I was thinking of is to have respect for each other. We have to be able to realize that we're not exactly the same, that we have differences, and to treat each other kindly in spite of those differences. And also, differences can complement each other and make each other stronger. I thought of the importance of having some shared interest that we can share together and develop that connection, but also have different interests. We don't want to do everything the same. Yeah. You want to have your own little space. Yeah. That's true. And also, the ability to look beyond ourselves and to be unselfish and think of the other person. Yeah. What you just said kind of brought to mind the last chapter, which was compatibility. And it talks about compatibility and how some people look for chemistry over compatibility. And the book stated that you should look for your chemistry to be a 6 to an 8 and your compatibility to be a 9. And that makes sense, because as we get older in the marriage a little bit, you really need that compatibility. And I feel like the compatibility kind of keeps the chemistry going, too. So, in the book it talks about emptiness and how it's a transition and that can be successfully navigated. What are some of the things you and your husband have done to navigate this transition? Well, we might have a little bit of a different situation. We got a job transfer out of state when we started our empty nester. We left our youngest son. He had been going to college and living at home. And so, we started a whole new situation in another state where we didn't really know anybody. And my husband's job demanded that he travel overseas quite a bit more than he had been in the past. So, it was kind of a different situation. It seems like you got triple whammy. I think we navigated that partly when he was home. We did some little excursions, getting to know the area. And we had actually had lived there before, the same place, but our children were very young. So, we were consumed with the family. But we were able to travel a little bit more. I was able to travel not often but occasionally when he had a job situation where I could also travel with him. So, we did that. I found ways to volunteer in the community, mostly through church service. It was just a little bit different situation. I tried to keep connected with family. My mother was elderly. And so, I took advantage when my husband wasn't there to travel to where she lived in another state and help her. I worked a little bit part-time. And then, I took a class online. So, all those things, I tried to keep busy. This is the stage where I'm finding myself at with my youngest going on a mission soon. Just trying to find, I'm going back to school. Those things that now I can do, keep myself busy a little bit. But I also have an aging parent. I have parents that are aging and like to go back and visit and help them when I can. So, yeah, it's very different. It seems like you had all those things happen at once. You're in a new place, and your husband was traveling a lot, and your kids are all gone. Yes, it was very daunting at first. Isn't it funny, too? Sometimes in our lives, when we think about if you were told maybe ahead of time that this was going to happen, you'd be like, oh, no, can't do that, don't want to do that. And then, you survive it, and you live through it, and you thrive through it, and you're like, oh, I lived through it, but I don't necessarily want to know if I would go through it again. But there were probably some very sweet moments. Some learning experiences, probably. Yeah. Okay, so retirement is another transition in marriage. What are some things you have done in your marriage to help you through this transition? That's another maybe different situation. When my husband retired from his full-time job, he decided to work part-time. And I don't know if he'll ever give that up, because that's one of his greatest joys is his career. So it was a little bit hard having him. He is still working from our home, and sometimes he has jobs and sometimes not. So it was hard to have him home so much. That was a big transition. But, again, trying to get involved in various activities to keep me busy. Right. Right now, I'm involved in a book club with some friends, which is very fun. I did volunteer work at the library for a while, but then I had to give that up. I'm doing mostly serving in our church and doing other activities that way. That's one of the things Kit talked about in this chapter is service and how service can help marriages, too. And I know that's a question next, but I find that when people just are out there busy and serving, they're happier. You see older, happy people, that even if they're struggling at that time, if they're serving, it helps. But your husband sounds a lot like my dad. He's of that generation where they work. They just worked since they were kids, and they worked and they worked, and they don't know anything different. My dad also had a – he didn't like to – he retired, and he sold his practice. And then he said, I don't like this, and started, like, subbing for other – Oh, nice. – ophthalmologists. And for a long, long time, he just subbed and did that until he got to an age where he didn't want to have to keep taking the classes and the tests to keep his life going. So I think he was almost 80, though. Wow. Well, that may be our case, too. But that's also a good trait to have, though. How important – and we were just talking about this. So how important do you think service is in a marriage? Definitely important because, as you said, it brings so much joy. And I think when I serve that I'm connected more with the people I serve with as well as the people that I'm serving. And it does bring a lot of joy and happiness if you're able to focus on someone else and not yourself. Yeah, exactly. I know we've had a lot of missionaries leave from our ward lately, and I just keep – it reminded me of my own mission. And when you serve other people, you love them. You do. And so I find, like, if you're – you know, we serve our kids all the time. But when we serve our spouse or they serve – you know, you feel that love. And then I also find, personally, when I do service for my husband, he also, in turn, does service for me. Yes, it's a two-way. And then when those things both stop, you're both like, huh, maybe things aren't going as smoothly right now. And then I think, well, I've got to do something. I've got to serve. I've got to do something to serve him. Or maybe he will start it up and do that service to me, and it's, okay, that's right. Let's get back into this give-and-take part of marriage where we're taking care of each other. And if you – you know, the more you get to know each other, you kind of know their wants and needs. And, of course, we have opportunities when there's illness or health problems. We have opportunities to serve each other. My husband and I are right now serving in a family history center in the community. We kind of share that interest of family history, and we're able to help people find some of their ancestors on their family tree. And so that probably is something that brings us closer together. We've had opportunities in the neighborhood, neighbors that were needing meals to be brought in when they were ill or had situations, and we had a neighbor that had an injured back. And so it was mostly my husband, but shoveling snow or, you know, mowing the lawn, all of that, even though it's work, it brings joy and, you know, the ability to do something for someone else. Yeah, and it also makes them feel good, the person you're serving, in a sense that they're being thought of. And maybe that also the thought that maybe Heavenly Father has prompted you to do that. So maybe they've been doubly thought of. Maybe. Well, and I'm sure when we have a need, they'll be right there to help us, too. Yeah, for sure. And that's what makes it nice, too. And I noticed, though, you say all those things you were doing together. Oh, some of the things, some of the things. Well, yeah, just like in everything else. Like we talked about how you have to have your own little spot, too. Yes, but serving together definitely brings you closer. In the book, it states that the last third of marriage can be some time to strengthen marital bonds and time to solidify the spiritual resolve that you have found. Have you found this to be true, that this is the time when you can strengthen your marital bonds and get to that spiritual resolve? I would say yes. But also, I think you're starting that foundation from the beginning of your marriage. But maybe you have more time to focus on it because you're not looking at the outward appearance of someone so much anymore. As we're aging, more wrinkles are not quite the same. But we're looking more at the inner, the soul of a person. And we get to know each other so much through shared experiences. And, of course, with us worshiping together, we kind of have the faith experiences that we've shared over the years. And so, yes, we probably are a stronger bond and connection during this time of our lives. Well, and you have that time, like you talked about earlier a little bit, just about kids and little kids. And sometimes that's just your focus. And I remember when I was first married, we started to have family right away. We had three under three. And I remember sometimes I'd show up to church with my hair wet. I'd just be happy at least I got a shower. And I don't think I remember taking anything from church that day because I was chasing three little kids. But except for the habit of going, I didn't want to lose that. But it's the same. Sometimes maybe you don't pay as much attention to your marriage at that point because you're both focusing on the kids. And then now, once you're retired or partially retired, you have a little bit more time to spend together. And that's where we find a little bit of the divorce rate is climbing because I think people didn't take time to nurture their marriage all along. They're just like, let's get the kids through the house. And then the kids are gone, and then they say, oh, you know, what do we have in common anymore? That is very much happening right now, I think, in our age group. And I've heard people say they didn't get to develop themselves over the years. They were just too focused on their family. But maybe it's our age group also. We kind of have a commitment to each other and our faith telling us that we have an eternal companionship. We need to get through this. Exactly. If that's happened, then it's time to reforge some of those bonds and maybe go on dates and get to know each other again and stuff. But I can see where that could be hurt because, yeah, sometimes you just get lost in the doing of things rather than living of things, I guess. That's where you have to just reevaluate each step of the way. What can I do to do better? Yeah. And I also think I see some of these couples that maybe have been married 30 years and then get divorced. And I think, oh, to me that's just sad because you put in all that effort, and now there might be a good chance that you're alone at the end of your life. And maybe for some people that might sound good, but for me it doesn't sound that great. Well, it's hard because there are situations maybe where someone's been putting up with abuse or something for several years for the kids. They thought it was for the kids' sake or something. And those situations, definitely. You should never say if there's abuse. But, yeah. And everyone has their own decisions, too, of what's best for them. But it's very interesting to me that that's kind of where the divorce rate has risen the most, is empty nesters age. People have been married a long time. It is definitely hard once the kids are gone and you have to reconnect. You're not communicating all the time about the kids and what the kids are doing or what they're needing or taking them to this activity or the other. You have to figure out what you still have in common. Yeah. That's true. And like you said, I have found that as it gets closer to me being an empty nester, I have found what do I even like to do? I'm kind of sort of rediscovering my goals and ambitions that I had set aside when the kids were smaller. So, yeah. It's a good time to kind of rediscover your spouse and rekindle some of that. My mother-in-law gave me some good advice when I got married. And she says, don't get too involved, so involved, you're going to get involved with your children. But take time. Always take time to go on dates. Always take time, at least once a year, to go on, even if it's an overnight, just one overnight vacation with your spouse. Because when the kids are small, it's harder to leave them overnight. That's a good idea. But even if it's overnight, even if it's camping an hour away, you need to take the time for just the two of you. And so we have done that, and I think that's been a really good thing. And we go, and we have a rule that we talk about the kids, and we get them out of the way, and then we try to talk about other things. That's a great idea. Anyway, it's been such a pleasure talking with you, Carolyn. I'm so glad you agreed to do this with me. Thank you. Well, you're welcome. Like I say, I'm still learning. Like I said, if you weren't learning, you probably wouldn't be here. All right. Thank you.