interview with Andrea Bryson Chapter 7 The warm happy marriage, cold , hard facts to conider

In this podcast interview, Jenny Sparks discusses the question of whether marriage is oppressive to women with her friend Andrea Bryson. Andrea shares her thoughts, stating that marriage can be oppressive if viewed as an institution with defined roles for men and women. She believes that women often sacrifice their own identities and needs to fit into these roles. However, she also mentions that marriage can be a spiritual union and a source of value and self-worth. Andrea emphasizes the importance of mutual respect, emotional maturity, and cultivating a strong friendship to maintain intimacy in marriage. She acknowledges that societal expectations and media portrayals can contribute to the perception of marriage as sexless and boring, but believes that a fulfilling sex life is possible with mutual respect and consideration for each other's needs. Okay, we're starting. Hi, this is Jenny Sparks, and this is a series of podcast interviews I've been doing for my class, and these questions are taken straight out of the book, Successful Marriages and Families, Proclamation Principles, Research Perspectives, by Alan J. Hawkins, David C. Dollahite, Thomas W. Drape. And today, the chapter we're going to be delving into is warm, happy, or ... I don't think I wrote it down right. Warm, happy marriage, or the cold, hard truth. Cold, hard, okay, there you go, perfect. And who I'm interviewing today, she's a friend of mine, Andrea Bryson. We've been friends for, I don't want to say how many years, we'll just say that she was my maid of honor at my wedding, and go with that. So Andrea, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure, so yeah, my name is Andrea, I've known Jenny for many moons, so we've been good friends, so it's kind of nice to reconnect in this way. Yeah, I'm a mom of four, I currently live in Montana, yeah, I've been here for 16 years, so just a, yeah, a little bit different from California, but I love it. What else, I work in retail, yep. Okay, no, that's fine, that's fine. Thumbs up for just about everything. There you go. So we're going to dive right into this, and I'm going to start asking you some questions. Do you feel marriage as an institution is oppressive to women? That's an interesting question, because I think sometimes it makes me wonder, it kind of makes me think, okay, so first of all, do we believe that marriage is an institution, or is it kind of a means of a spiritual connection with a partner? So I think if you think of marriage as in, like, the institution of marriage, and if you think of marriage as an institution, then yes, I think it can be quite oppressive to women, and I mean, in the same instance, it could flip around and go the same way for men, depending on the, you know, personality of the woman, maybe, but I've known quite a few women who, you know, if you're talking marriage in the traditional sense, in the way that you grow up, kind of, let's say, in a religious background, where marriage is, you know, a man and a woman, and the man is the head of the household, and the woman is the nurturer, caretaker, and you sort of have these defined roles as to what you are supposed to be about as a wife and as a mother, we'll say, you know, and sometimes it can be kind of confining in the ways that, I don't know, I guess I'm going to get a little long-winded on this one. There's a lot to that question in my mind. Well, yeah, there is a lot, and I know some of the other people I've interviewed in the beginning interviews, they are deep questions that are kind of hard to, and some of the questions they delve deep to get a little bit personal. Yeah, I mean, okay, so like, I think as a concept, I don't think it's supposed to be oppressive to women, but in practice, I think it ends up being, but I mean, that could be the short of what I feel and what I think. I think that if you're looking at it as a spiritual union where two souls are united under God, you know, that's the, you know, marriage is supposed to be a spiritual sort of connection, right? Like, I believe it was most, you know, the institution of marriage and where it's like the legal, you know, binding of two humans to create more humans and, you know, have a house and, you know, build little families. You know, in a legal sense or like in society, there's a role for that, right? And I think, you know, you've got your tax breaks and you're all that kind of stuff, but if you think about it and if you're talking about roles, I think sometimes without knowing it, we put ourselves as women into the role and try to fit into a role that isn't necessarily one that, you know, that the slipper doesn't always fit just right. And so it can become, and depending on your partner and how emotionally mature and available they are, are they able to sustain and support you in the ways that they, that you need for you to maintain your, you know, your dignity or self-worth. And then if you look at it, like one of my best friends, this keeps popping into my head, one of my best friends has four children also, and she, you know, she's a wonderful mother, she's a diligent wife, and a wonderful wife. They have a wonderful marriage. They're, she has, she, you know, he respects her to no end. They're just one of the most loving and supportive couples I think I've ever seen, one of the best marriages I've witnessed. And she hates Mother's Day. She hates Mother's Day. She's blessed with, I guess a good question, right? Like why? Like you have four children. It's not like you've struggled to, you know what I mean, have children or something, which can always be really hurtful for women who, you know, feel like that's the role of a wife is to their children for her husband. Then you feel like maybe you're falling short in who you should be. There's all kinds of stuff, but I digress on that one. But she doesn't like Mother's Day because she says, the whole of my worth and existence isn't, I hope it's not, my motherhood. Right. She goes, we're so valued as mothers. Oh, mothers are up on this pedestal or something. She said, but honestly, sometimes I'm not the best mother. Like sometimes I screw up and sometimes I'm whatever, you know? So she's like, but I feel like my value and my self-worth don't come from the fact that I can be or that I am a mother. That's not where it is. That's not where my individual worth comes from with regard to God. She's like, that's from my relationship with God and Christ, like my own individual connection with them. She's like, that's where my value lies. Like my, I have worth in the eyes of the Lord regardless of whether or not I'm a mother. Like that's not the definition of me. I have so many other parts of me that exist. So I'm not just a mother. And I think in that same sense, none of us are just a wife, but I think the institution of marriage sometimes confines us to that role. And we often sacrifice the other parts of ourselves to make the family work, to make our husbands happy. And in that way, maybe it's a little self-inflicted, but also because I think we have to grow and mature to be able to have the boundaries set to be able to be ourselves. I don't think it really fosters opportunities for women to be all that they can be in all the areas of their lives, because they are that. They're a wife, or they're a mother, or whatever it is. That might sound kind of self-minded, but you know, because it is kind of a sacrifice to be a wife and a mother, and it's a thing I think you have to give and take. Like in a relation, any relationship, I think you have to have a little bit of that, a little bit of sacrifice. But yeah, sometimes it can be, especially if you're with someone, a partner who is very self-minded. I get it. And you know, through this conversation, your answer to the question, it's what I've kind of gleaned from it is wording matters. Like, I'm not just a wife, I'm not just a mother. And the institution, is it an institution or is it a spiritual thing? Those two, you know, wording and how things are phrased matter and means different things. And I think in two, yeah, and like you were saying, if you go into marriage, I think, with this specific idea that you're going to be honorable, and this is what you want, and you're going to give your all, and you pick somebody who does that too, then yeah, it's more of a spiritual. But if, you know, you don't do that or your spouse doesn't do that, then it feels more like an institution. Maybe, maybe that's it. I know like, and media too, media, you know, TV, movies, social media, all is like, portrays marriage a certain way too. And I think what we've seen recently is that marriage is boring and sexless. At least, that seems to be the general, you know, you watch a movie and especially if you see men or maybe it's a cop show or whatever talking, they talk about how they don't have as much sex as when they were single and that sort of thing. Do you think or do you feel that marriage is sexless and boring? You know, I think that's kind of a loaded question. So loaded. Well, I think it can be. I think it can be. But I really think that that is pivotal on whether or not you are with someone, if you're with your person. So, some people, we get married because it just seems like the right thing to do or because, whatever, that person seems to fit the bill. But do we really take the time? And I think in some cultures, we rush the job a little and we don't really find out whether or not we're actually best friends. So those couples, I think, that marry, and you've heard of those ones where they were high school sweethearts, they're still best friends, they've loved each other forever, they're together for 50 years, you know, that's amazing. And we know those stories kind of few and far between. But I think that marriage can be, I've known a few people who have had very good sex lives, very good, and they're just happy as can be and they're married for however many years, for as long as they possibly can. They just can't keep their hands off each other. But I think there is a large amount of mutual respect and taking consideration of the other person. And I think it takes a massive amount of emotional maturity to get to that point where you can see yourself, hear them, validate them, cultivate that relationship of friendship and kindness and love. And when that exists, I think intimacy exists. But I think it can become, and also you have to think about the time, a time in life. So sometimes it's really tough because young couples get married, they're in their 20s, boys are super randy, right, like all about testosterone and let's have sex every five minutes, you know. And so, you know, it's like, gosh, the women are like, well, I'm there, but also, gosh, I might have a headache tonight. You know, like we biologically don't have as much testosterone driving us towards, you know, that much sex. But then you think about the fact that women get pregnant, right? So we get pregnant and pregnancy puts a whole nother ball game of, you know, emotions and hormones and all kinds of things going around. And then you have a baby and then, oh, you got to wait six weeks. And then, oh, you got to, you know, and some men, some young men handle that better than others. Some young men maintain respect for their wives and what's just gone on in their body. And some young men will demand that their wives take care of them even when they can't have sex for six weeks. And it's just a travesty with the selfishness and the demand. Sometimes I've heard many stories from friends who have been in not caring relationships where the men are just not respectful of their bodies. They're not respectful of the way that they feel, you know, and the time that they might need. And those child rearing years I think are very, very hard on a marriage because sometimes the sex doesn't come easy. The kids are noisy. They're not sleeping. Maybe they're in the bed. Maybe you're up six times a night. Maybe you're whatever. So everybody's exhausted and the time for mom and dad to have alone time gets strained. And the unfortunate part about that is, you know, unless you like schedule it out, especially when you have teenagers, you know, if you have teenagers in the house and you don't have a very big house, then the amount of like reckless abandon that you can have is really, really muted, right? Like there's no noisy sex. There's no anything like that, right? So you're not going to be as uninhibited, let's say, as if you didn't have teenagers in the house and you don't want to give them any sort of ideas, baby. I have no idea. I mean, every family's different. But, but, you know, I think that that plays a huge role in it. Children play a massive role in how much sex the couple can have because they always come first. So you just learn as a couple that we don't matter right now, right? Like we don't matter until the kids are grown. So when that happens, that can be problematic. And I think that sometimes marriage becomes more sexless because one mom is exhausted. She's used up all of her mental capacity trying to take care, you know, keep little tiny people alive and, you know, run the household and try to keep up and have dinner and do all the things if you're a mom and maybe they're working a job also, and they still carry most of the mental load and the household, household, you know, load. It's a lot, right? And then he's like, Oh, you don't love me anymore. Oh, you don't want to you never want to anymore. And she's like, dude, all I want is a shower or a bubble bath or a massage that doesn't then lead to sex at the end, right? I mean, he's exhausted, too. But men sort of have a little bit of a it's interesting, I've heard somewhere before that men really connect with physical, right? Like, that's how they feel deeply connected with women. And women feel deeply connected with men. Um, through through conversation, kind of like you and I are having here where we understand one another, we're validated, we kind of we feel heard, understood. Yeah, recognize, you know, that, you know, valued, whatever it is, that's where we feel a deep connection. And then we want to have sex, right? Like where men are like, I need to have sex to feel connected with you. Right? Yeah. It's kind of a rough one, right? Yeah. By the time the teenagers leave the house, like all of a sudden, you're gonna start hitting menopause or something. And so then you're like, well, now sex is hard. Right when we can be as noisy as we want. Well, yeah. And, and, and to like, you're hitting a lot of the points to the of a chapter in the earlier earlier chapter in the book, where it talks about it talks to about where in this chapter a little bit about how we see sex is exciting. And the idea that we have going into a marriage is that we have this fallacy of an idea that every time we have sex, it's supposed to be amazing and awesome. And like, you're just saying full of noises and, and all sorts of stuff. And then but in the book, it in the chapter is really interesting. Or a different chapter, it says that actually, you should you if you should most couples most happily married couples have good to very good sex only about 65% of the time, somewhere between 65 to 85% of the time. So somewhere in there, they're having sex that's not so good. So but the concept, the idea that we see and the perception we see going into marriage or whatever is that we're just both Oh, yeah, we're married. So we're supposed to have this great sex all the time. And like you said, life happens, babies happen. And and like you said, to it, if it talks about the book about having a loving partner, and both realizing that you both got to get stuff from it, not just one person and caring about the other emotional needs, like you like we talked about, you know, like maybe your wife just wants a massage tonight, let's leave it at that. And then tomorrow, maybe we'll try for what you want. But right, not to get too graphic or into it. Well, yeah, I mean, well, that's true, too. But you just triggered something in my brain. And it's kind of a little off topic. So you can edit it out if you want. But But it kind of reminded me that, you know, a lot of times, especially if you've grown up religious, and and now like science wise, I think women in years past up until very recently, had no idea how their bodies worked, what the anatomy of their body was, what you know, where the where the places are that work that turn the right buttons on and do that. Right. So like, you know, I think a lot of marriages and a lot of people and I've said this before, and somebody's like, cite your sources, you know, what studies, you know, whatever. But there are a large number of women who have a problem achieving climax, because they don't know how their body works. And their husbands have no clue because they got married as kids, they never had classes in school. You know what I mean? Yeah. Now, I think there's a lot more education doctors are just now in 2024, figuring out, you know, how women's bodies are actually constructed and work, and kind of how to have a good sex life and how it should be even for women, right? Like, because I do know that you can have fabulous sex if you're in a very like, loving, caring, safe, comfortable relationship where everybody's respecting one another, then, you know, I think the amount of issues decreases immensely, and that it is possible to have 90 to 95% amazing sex, even if you've been together for a long time, you know, I think kids, kids is huge. Kids is huge. So do you think then it would value people who are getting married, maybe like you're talking about, especially those of us who grow up in a religious household, and we get married young, do you think it would benefit them to know to maybe have this conversation that about sex and not be so hindered, maybe even talk about that, hey, sometimes it's not going to be as good for you as somebody else, but sometimes it will be better for you than your spouse, too, just depending on the situation? Yeah. Yeah, that sometimes you may not see, you may not climax, and sometimes they might not. Yeah, I suppose, yes, it's just to know that that's normal, you know, that that can be normal, but what I'm telling you, I kind of wonder how much of the issues, how much of the struggle comes from lack of respect, right, and comes from a lack of emotional awareness, and also comes from a lack of knowledge about biology, especially women's biology. I think that there's been a severe, I think it would help, yes, to have a conversation, but I really think it helps that we're having these kinds of conversations where women, you know, can go, oh, it's not just me, like, oh, so, wait, I'm supposed to be able to climax every time? Like, I kind of think, I think that what you don't know, you just kind of think, well, it's kind of my duty, if I was being, you know, Christ-like, then I would do it anyway, because I love him, even though I never get anything out of it, right, or even though it might be painful, or it might be that he hurt my feelings earlier today, but I'm going to try to forgive, because that's what Jesus would do, and I'm going to do it anyway, where really, what she needs is to be able to say, hey, you know what, when you said these things to me earlier, that really kind of hurt my feelings, I kind of feel like maybe if you found a different way to say those kind of things to me, you know, and they can talk it out and have some emotional awareness and a respectful conversation, where she can say, hey, here's the boundary, I don't like it when you talk to me like this, and he can say, oh, wow, I see you, I'm so sorry that I did that, and that I hurt you in that way, and that she feels validated, heard, understood, guess what, she's going to be like, oh, I want to connect with you, right? There's not going to be, I think I have a headache tonight, right, like, men needing to say, oh, guess what, I kind of think maybe I need a therapist, being more normal, if that would normalize a little bit, and if women understanding their bodies and talking about, you know, how do, you know, their bodies work, and having that be part of, like, a normal education, we all know how penises work, like we do, but does anybody know how a vulva works? Probably not, like, I don't know that everybody can name all the parts of your vulva, right, but they can certainly name a testis and a penis, and all that stuff, so we all know that stuff, because we live in a man's world, we don't live necessarily, men don't speak women, women speak men, as Meryl Streep says. Right, and you know, one of the things I told my son before he got married was, if you find that you want sex more than your wife, do the dishes. There you go, it's that simple. It really is sometimes that simple, because you have one less thing you have to do, you see that your spouse is taking that pressure off of you, and it's, like you said, it's that emotional connection that women need. Yeah. So, the other thing I found very interesting was, it talked about compatibility, and that when you're looking for a spouse, that a lot of people want chemistry, like they want it through the roofs, and then they get married, and they find they have issues, because all they really had was chemistry, or maybe mostly what they had was chemistry, and it said that really what you should look for is a six or seven in chemistry, and like a nine on a scale of one to ten in compatibility. Yeah. What's your thought about that? Why can't you have a ten in both? That's my thought. I agree. I think that, yeah, you don't always consider the friendship part, and because you know there's some chemistry there, right, like, and if you're like a virginal going into your marriage, you have no idea if you're sexually compatible, because you've never had sex, right, so you just figure it out together, but if there's chemistry there, chances are you'll be compatible. You'll just have to figure it out, but I think, yeah, for sure, we do not, especially, like I said before, if you're coming from a religious background, and you see somebody who's quote-unquote worthy, and kind of like this upstanding person, and they fit the narrative of what you should be looking for, you know, and also you have some chemistry, like you might be able to make out for 20 minutes, and you know, whatever. That's a good thing. Those things are there, but, you know, the chemistry part's not what's going to sustain you. What's going to sustain you is whether or not they like you, whether or not you like them as human beings. Like, are you aligned with the way that you look at politics? You don't have to be politically aligned, but do you have, really, I think the most important thing is emotional awareness, and sort of a maturity, like where you can talk through issues, like we just talked about, where you can say, hey, you know what, when you said this, I felt that, and instead of getting defensive, the partner gets curious, and says, oh gosh, it did? Yeah, I made you feel that way? Explain that to me. I'm so sorry. I don't want to ever make you feel that way. Help me to understand so that I don't hurt you again, right? And you have those mature conversations. Most people cannot do that. I almost think, I don't think everyone needs therapy, so you learn those tools, right? So you can have those conversations, but I think when you can have those kind of conversations, cultivate a friendship, you're compatible with your activity levels, whatever, maybe you write your adventurers together, maybe you like to read books together, who knows, whatever it is, you're compatible in all these other friendly areas, and you have your separate things, but if you have chemistry, like off the charts, and you're friends with that person, that's amazing. That's what you're gunning for. Right. Well, yeah, and I think, too, I think, too, as women, we tend to be, maybe sometimes we tend to find chemistry the more we like somebody, right? The more we get to know them emotionally, the more we can connect with them and have that chemistry. That's why people as old as me, almost 50, can still find their spouse or whatever attractive, or somebody else even older, is because you keep that thing going. But I do think there needs to be compatibility, like you were talking about, with the whole, you don't even have to, not that you have to have the same political background or whatever, but I just think, morally, you guys, you have to kind of morally be on the same thing, and kind of like how you're going to raise your children. Maybe they want to do something, how they raise their child a little differently than how you were thinking, but as long as it's on the same roller coaster, or the same hemisphere. Same track. That you can kind of give and take a little bit, I think, is what's important. And I think as long as you are morally on the same vein, like you want to work, and you morally want to have that conversation that you were just talking about, where you can say, hey, I didn't mean to hurt you, or even like, really, that's, okay, I didn't mean to hurt you, here's what I meant, and how are these words hurting? And so, in the book, it also talks about the benefits, some of the benefits, health-wise, of being married. And I found it very interesting, it said that a divorced man, a recently divorced man, health-wise, is the equivalent of smoking a pack a day for him, for health. And then, divorced men and women, well, men seem to have more issues like that, health-wise, and then women will have more, like, tend to have more problems with substance abuse. If they're married or not married? Not married. Divorced. But then there's also, like, it describes that if you're married, men and women live longer, they're healthier, they do things. But then I started thinking, when I was reading that, is that all married people, or is that, happily, for the most part, married people? What do you think? Yeah, happily. I think there's a large number of studies out there on that particular subject. Like, you know, if you go to Psychology Today, or some of those, you know, those kind of places. I actually was just reading an article, kind of, about that. There's some mixed messages, right, on whether or not there are health benefits to marriage. I think there's this old-school narrative among men that, oh, you know, don't get married, you're going to get tied down. You know, like, the ball and chain, ball and chain. Women want to trap you, and they just think they're going to take all your money, and it's not healthy for you, and they live longer, you know, whatever. Well, the truth of the matter is that men are more healthy when they're married, but women, I think, are more healthy when they're not. I was reading it a couple of different things. I'm like, that's fascinating. And I don't know, I mean, it's going to matter which study you're reading for what statistics, I'm sure. I'm sure. Right, but I think, but married, unmarried, like, divorced women actually are, like I say, what they compared in the thing I was reading was, divorced men and unhappily married women have the highest suicide rates. Right. Which is really interesting, because an unhappily married woman is obviously carrying all of the mental load for the household. They're caring for the children, they're caring for the spouse, they're not having their needs met, their stocking is never filled at Christmas, you know, nobody knows how to use their vulva, you know. Right, so they are more prone to depression, you know, and suicide. So, and it's, you know, but women are more likely to instigate, you know, divorce. It says, I think it opens up the question to a much bigger question. I think that question opens a much bigger question to me, because according to all, you know, not just that one study, whatever brought it up in your textbook, I would like to see what all the studies are saying across the board, like, and what are the variables we're looking at, really, because. Yeah, agreed. They're not all the same. It brought up a question for me, too, and does that, like, when you're, it brought up lots of questions, and one of the questions I had was, well, can, like you said, can we find that sort of relationship through other means? Does it have to be a marriage? I don't think so. I think you can live a happy, fulfilled, totally healthy, wonderful life. You do need human connection, 100%. Humans need humans. I think that's been established, right, through all the science. Humans need humans, but do we need to be institutionally married? Maybe not. Yeah, we talked about that. We talked about that word institution. Not, let's not do institutionally. What if they were in a better relationship? Then by, then yes, 100%. If you have found a partner you want to go through life with, because you want to share everything with them, and they want to share everything with you, and you have, you know, this fabulous connection, and a friendship, and support system, and fabulous sex, you have the best case scenario ever. Do not ever let go of that human. They are your human, and they are helping you definitely. I actually heard, I read another thing that was really interesting. I don't even know if I read it, or if it was some sort of like a doctor that was posting online, or something, and said something like, you reflect the way that your partner treats you. They've actually done studies, and they say that if your partner treats you with disrespect, the effect is that your appearance, your health, your mental health, all of those things decline. It has what they call the golem effect, where people actually look worse for the wear, if they're in an unhappy relationship, right? Where the opposite is true. The complete opposite is true. When there is love, caring, respect, honor, and just, you know, overall goodness happening in a friendship, and in a relationship like that, the opposite is true. That people look healthier, they are healthier, their cardiovascular health is better. It's really interesting. So you actually, it's funny, you kind of reap what you sow in a relationship, right? If your partner looks like crap, guess what? You probably aren't treating him very well. That was really funny. If you find yourself maybe not being attracted because they're not looking so well lately, maybe you should just watch how you're treating them, and vice versa. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, maybe there's something to that one. I don't know. I think so, because I'm wondering, you know, everyone has stress, and you see past presidents, and how much they age in four years' time. So if you're living, if somebody's living in a stressful situation, stressful environment, then, you know, that's going to show, and it's going to show in your outward appearance. For sure. I mean, it could be other variables, and not just the marriage that's making someone age quickly. Yeah, sure. So, you know, maybe you're taking care of an ailing parent, or whatever. There's lots of strains that can happen. Or your job sucks. Or you're working too many hours at said job. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's all kinds of reasons, but hopefully your partner's not one of them. Yeah, that's for sure. Okay, so this one is a little bit personal. And it's like, and I'm going to, you know, answer it however you will. As someone who is recently divorced, what are some of the advantages and disadvantages that you have found in being divorced? Advantages? For me, there are advantages. For me, there are advantages. And I mean, there are some disadvantages, too, and I'll give you both. But the ones that come to mind, I'm sure there are things that I'll think about after this is over. And I'll go, I should have said that. But the one that comes to mind for advantages is I can breathe, right? I feel like I got myself back, I guess I could say. I'm free to make the choices to do whatever I want. And I don't have to consider somebody else. And I don't have to explain myself, right? You know, I have a friend who just got back from overseas. And I thought, well, maybe I'll take a trip, you know, down and go see her. Yeah. And then I thought, you know, but you know, and then I don't have to think, well, is he going to be okay with that? Is he going to think that costs too much money? Who's going to make sure that the kids are, you know, like, if I if I have to consider all of the other people in my life before I make a choice to do something that I want to do, then I am not completely free, right? Like, the freedom that comes that there is a freedom there is, you know, and some of some of the things that I can't do are chosen free, like, I've chosen, like, I have children, and my children comes first, right? So if it gets in the way of that, well, then that's not my choice until my children are grown and gone. And then guess what, I can go do whatever the heck I want. I can fly to France if I want. Right? Well, if you can afford it. There's that advantage, I feel like I can breathe again, and I can breathe my air, not someone else's idea of what good air is. If that makes sense. No, yeah, that makes sense. Because we do, we tend to at least I did kind of as a people pleaser type, sort of always kind of just go with whatever you wanted to do, because it was easier. Because when there's usually a price for me, if I did what I wanted, right, or just didn't happen. But that's, you know, I mean, that's not completely unequivocally true. It's not like he's a monster or something. It's just easier. It was easier to just go with what he wanted. So, but it wasn't it was at the cost of me, right? So there's that. So I do find some more freedom, which is good. The the drawbacks, I'd say comes mostly with the kids. And also with the dating pool. It's scary out there. I don't know if anybody has taken a look at the dating thing. Nowadays, it's scary as heck. I mean, everybody's online, and you have to make this profile, put yourself out there. But don't give too much information because some crazy maniac can find out where you work and you know, whatever. I mean, it's crazy, crazy scary out there. You know, and that and you know, at my age, you've gone through four kids and you're getting older and your body's not going to be getting better. You know, so who are you attracting and who's available at this stage of life? Right? Yeah, no, exactly. No, but 100% like, and I more power to you too, for getting out there because I, I think I'd be absolutely frightened to death. It's terrifying. But I mean, I've gotten lucky and I and I've met a wonderful man. He is. He fell to the earth. And he has, he just treats me like absolute gold ways that I've never, I never imagined I could be treated so well. So then do you feel like if you decided you wanted to go visit your friend that returned from overseas, that you would have to explain things to him? Or do you think he'd be Yeah, go go enjoy yourself. I think he would say go enjoy yourself. Go enjoy yourself. But I think it's really hard. It's tricky. This is the other thing about dating when you are older. And like you're divorced, because you both come with baggage, right? And you both come with triggers. You both come with things that are going to make you go, Hey, wait, what's that about? Are you going to see somebody else? You know? Or, you know, because maybe you've been cheated on, or maybe you've been abandoned, or whatever thing, right? Oh, so it takes a little bit more finesse. But I think at this stage in life, the advantage that I have is that I recognize it. I know when someone is struggling with, okay, they're upset, but they're not really upset with me. Let's get to the bottom of what's really making you upset, right? So we can actually talk it through and figure it out a lot quicker than when I was younger. And we can, you know, so that's an advantage, a definite advantage that I've seen more, I know more, I know exactly what I can and cannot tolerate, and will and will not tolerate. Right. So I can draw boundaries right up front and say, you know what, it's not okay with me when you act like that. It's manipulative. Or, hey, you know, the way that, you know, and we can have those conversations. And he is emotionally aware and mature enough to be able to have the same conversation and not get defensive. Like I say, we get curious with each other rather than defensive or arguing very rarely. We very rarely argue or fight because we can have those conversations on that level, which is like, wow, you know, that's an advantage because we've both been through it, right? Like multiple times the wrong way. So finding someone who can do it with you the right way is like total game changer. Right. And like, like we talked about before, you, when you find someone that's emotionally aware, they will talk to you and have these conversations. That's what, you know, that compatibilities is what helps make a relationship work. Yeah. But anyway, it's not the total and all. I mean, you've got to be able to blend your, your future goals and if they could be complicated and, you know, other kids and family and blah, blah, blah. That's what I was going to say. There becomes other issues, right? His kids, your kids, blending families. It all becomes extra, but yeah. Well, thank you so much, Andrea. I appreciate you taking the time to let me interview today on the cold, happy, cold. I don't know. I can't say it right, but I think it's funny because it's like, we'll just go with the cold, hard truth. Warm, happy marriage is the cold, hard truth, right?