English Project Podcast

The podcast discusses the books "The House in the Cerulean Sea" and "Winter Girls". The hosts, Vlas and Jacob, talk about themes and ideas in the books such as power dynamics, mirrors, windows, sliding glass doors, and obscure passages. Jacob's book, "The House in the Cerulean Sea", explores themes of weight and identity, while Vlas' book, "Winter Girls", focuses on anorexia and self-harm. Both books provide windows into the characters' lives, but may not be mirrors or sliding glass doors for the readers. The hosts also discuss how the books help them understand different perspectives and the presence of obscure passages in the stories. Welcome, everyone, to our podcast. I'm your host, Vlas Manartovic, and we're going to be discussing the two books, The House in the Cerulean Sea and Winter Girls. So, today my guest is Jacob Klee. He will be talking about his book, The House in the Cerulean Sea, and we'll be discussing themes and ideas such as, like, power dynamics, mirrors, windows, sliding glass doors, themes, obscure passages, different ideas that show up in the book, and many other ideas and themes such as these. So, Jacob, our host—I mean, Jacob, not our host. I'm the host. Jacob is our guest. He wants to say a quick hello before we get started. So, hello, everybody. Thank you, guys, for having me. I'm going to be on for three episodes in three different parts. We might add to one whole thing. It might look like that, but three different separate days. It's a long time to record all these, but it might be a little lengthy at some points, but we hope you have a great time through all of it, and you come back to talk to the podcast in the future. So, enjoy all of it, and— And with that, we're going to get started on our first episode. So— So, we'll see you guys on the first episode, where we're going to be discussing mirrors, windows, and sliding glass doors. So, I think now we're going to be discussing the idea of mirrors, windows, and sliding glass doors in our book. So, in my book, The Winter Girls, I say that mainly the book serves as a window for me, and not so much a mirror or sliding glass door. Basically, the main character struggles with severe anorexia and other mental health issues, which I thankfully do not have. And additionally—so, I don't really share that experience with her. Additionally, she is a female, and she has problems in her family, which I don't. I don't have either of those things. And so, basically, this character, her parents are both divorced, and she has a stepsister, and she tries to build relations with them. But oftentimes, the book kind of takes out some parts of key information that we would need to know in order to understand, like the back history, which they add in later. But in the first chapter, that's why. So, how about you, Jacob? What do you think of your book? So, similar to you, Blaise, many that I see in this book is windows. And the one big window that I see is into the life of someone who struggles with weight. Linus, the main character in the story, is, I would say, obese, and he diets and struggles with weight. Many people taunt him and talk about his weight behind and to his face. Many people who don't know their children, of course. But it still hurts himself and his feelings, I would assume. And he has to, like, struggle with understanding how people see him and how he sees himself, which I don't really have to do. That's similar to my character, Leah, who her friends don't taunt her. Unfortunately, her best friend just died of unknown causes that we don't know yet in the book. But her family is concerned about her weight, as she constantly diets and does other self-harming things to herself. But I think the two characters have similar windows, which we can see, but different individual aspects of those issues. Something that I would also like to say is a mirror, for me, which is the life of a male. As a male, I can relate to Linus in a few different ways, but mostly in the story, it is full of windows. And one of the bigger ones is most likely how it's set in a magical world, which I'm not set in. My story, I think, is a window for me because of the reasons I just said, like the familial problems, struggles coping with dead friends, and obviously the major issue of anorexia and the other mental health issues our character struggles with. But I couldn't say that it would be a sliding glass door for me, just because the book leaves out a lot of, not key details, but information that would make it able for me to have it be a sliding glass door. So it kind of only gives the key parts of the story that the main character of the book wants to tell us, as she is the narrator. So I don't think there's enough information in the book about the setting, her family, her life, her friends, or other information for it to be a sliding glass door for me. I agree. For me, it's a little different for me because most of the story is set in a magical fantasy world, and the book does a pretty good job of making me feel like you could understand what it's like living there and being with them. However, most of the story is set with Linus, who is a very normal character in the story, and it doesn't give us perspective of what it's like to be, let's say, Lucy, or who's the antichrist, and other people in the story, which the book doesn't really do. So next, I think we're going to talk about some identity lenses, which is a little similar to the windows and sliding glass doors. So do you want to start with that? Yeah, I'll start with that. So in The House in the Cerulean Sea, as a man, I understand some of the issues and things that Linus faces. However, many issues and perseverances are not related to him being a man. However, one of the more connections that I felt was as a kid. Many of the story is set in orphanages or other places with kids who have magical powers. I don't have magical powers. However, I still relate to many of the issues and troubles that they have, and understanding adults and things. Many times in the story, the children will say things and do things that they don't know better, and I believe that as a kid, I had to learn what was good or bad, and they're learning, too. Yeah, I think we can all relate to that a little bit. And for me, my story, I don't have many lenses that I can look through as a reader or as a person, just because the character's life and character is just so different from myself and my character and my life. But I can imagine what it would be like to struggle with coping with the death of a friend, just having friends and being able to imagine, obviously, thankfully not having had to deal with that, but I can imagine what it would be like. And also, oftentimes my character suppresses her true feelings, and I know that lots of people can suppress their feelings sometimes when they don't want to show how they really feel. Like I do that, many other people do that sometimes, so I can kind of see how that affects the course of her life. But oftentimes, just individual days or interactions. I definitely agree with that. And Moni, the characters through these books are similar to our age, and it really helps kind of understand different people, similar to like a Sky and Earth door in this way. We, as ourselves, can't fully see them. However, the book kind of lets us have another look at somebody who's very similar to us, but also so different in so many ways. So this was our episode this week, and we hope that you guys enjoyed it. We'll be back for Obscure Passages next week, where we'll be discussing a little bit more about effects of power and how that can affect the characters and the other power around them. So I hope you guys have a great time. See you soon, guys. Don't forget to like, and we'll see you guys next time. All right. So welcome back to episode two of this podcast, where we're going to be discussing our books, The Winter Girls and The House in the Cerulean Sea. I'm your narrator, Vlas, and my guest today is Jacob Klee. Hello, my name is Jacob Klee, back for episode two, the end of the show, and I'm so excited to be with you guys today. So today we're going to be discussing the idea of obscure passages, or basically how they might obstruct our knowledge behind a certain character or scene, or development behind that character or scene, or just certain general ideas or themes in the story. So Jacob, do you want to discuss that first? Yeah, I'll go first. So in my story, I saw a few obscure passages. However, I'm going to talk about one of them today. So the main character, Linus, who is working at an orphanage, I've gotten close with some of these kids, and one of the kids had gifted him a flower. And in the story, he took this flower, put his finger into the area where the pollen is, and he then licked his finger. He said, quote, the pollen was bitter and oh so alive. And to me, I was confused. And I wasn't sure what this really meant. And it seemed very odd to me how he could look at this flower and this pollen and see it was so bitter and so alive. And this flower was grown from one of the kids with their powers. And I was kind of, it felt to me that it was odd in placement in the story block. Do you understand what I'm saying? And it felt that like, maybe the author is trying something with this. Like, trying to give a message. What do you think? I think so, that would be a very obscure passage where the author tries to deliver some sort of theme or statement in the story, but you kind of need to read on to learn more about it or just analyze it a little deeper to really understand what they were trying to say. And that happens a lot in my book too, but I think just in a bit of a different way, where there are no passages that you really need to deeply analyze. I think the more obscure passages are in mine because just of the lack of information that the author gives us in that initial segment. Like, for example, the segment where the main character Leah is talking about her friend Cassie who died and how they almost died in a car crash together, but they survived. The friend Cassie died later and we don't yet know how. But basically in this segment, she was kind of remembering when they were in the car crash and then it fast forwarded to when the main character Leah was at the funeral and she started hallucinating that Cassie was alive for a day or two. And a lot of things that the character was doing and saying didn't really make sense. Like, for example, she was talking to people that didn't exist. And I found these passages obscure because they didn't really make sense to me at the time, where the character was kind of doing things abnormally and acting abnormal. But I think there was definite themes in that passage about how basically the character needs to kind of either move on from that or understand that relationship she had with that friend more. But what do you think, Jacob? I think it was a little bit odd how she would talk to herself and all these things. But next I'd like to talk a little about power and dynamics, if that's okay with you. So my story, of course, Linus has a very powerful character as he is an inspector for the island and he has the power to shut down the island and has very many decisions on how these children will live. So maybe it's not shown very much, but to me this affects many people in the story because these kids are trying to put on a good performance, for what I see, and if they feel that if they make one mistake. Linus, who is an inspector for Dekomi, which is the department for young magical youth, he looks at many orphanages and places and sees how, if they're up to standard, if the kids are provided for enough, and he has the power to shut it down. And these kids know this and they're trying to be on their best behavior and everything, but I don't feel Linus would misuse his powers. However, I think it does affect the people around him because they don't see him as a friend. They don't see him as a friend, they see him as someone who's there to kind of watch over them and make sure they're okay, but also who's there who could affect them pretty negatively later in life. But another aspect to this with how he's kind of better or has a little more power than all the other people, it's also because he's older and these are children and they don't really think that they have as much power over him and he is like, over them. But I think as he stays a little longer, he grows a little closer to them and the connections they have kind of grow. So the power that he really has is really everybody's power. So what would you like to say? So in my book, I think that there's definitely a lot of power dynamics, but I think my, especially the main character Leah, has a lot of control over the people around her. I think the main reason is because obviously her family cares for her. And sometimes, like for example, in chapter four, she threatened to starve herself if she didn't get the things she wanted. And she does that quite often as the book unfolds. And her family tries to make accommodations for her, tries to get her to doctors, but she refuses to do things or go to places. So I think that's a major kind of asset that she has on her side, where she can threaten to harm herself in order to get what she wants. But oftentimes, she does that just on her own volition, like without any reward, per se, that her family would give her. But she definitely is able to control her parents like that, and especially her stepmom, who she doesn't have the best relationship with, or her biological mother for that matter, because they're both kind of like fighting over who's her true mother, the stepmom and the biological mom. And so she can kind of sway that and make them both kind of not fight over it, but there's a lot of tension there that she can kind of work off of or create based on her actions. So I would like to talk a little bit about this kind of the effects of the power in the story, and a little more about how it impacts stories like microaggressions, maybe code switching, or maybe even some pressures about like gender roles or age. So as we know, Linus can shut down the island and has a lot of power over the children. However, many times I can, from what I can tell, Linus does talk differently to the children and uses different voices or tones and other aspects of his voice when he's speaking to them. And this is what I saw as a little bit of code switching, as he's trying to like go down to their level quote unquote, and he's trying to like, make them feel more comfortable. I understand that what his that his intentions are pure in this situation, and he's trying to just make them feel as comfortable as possible. But to me, it could look a little bit like he's being more of like, condescending to them. Like, he, yeah, like, in a sense, he, he is much better than all that. And he has, and he knows he has much more power over them. But I don't think he's intending for that. And as he grows closer to the kids, I think he talks to them a little more normally every single day. But I, many times in the story, the age that he has, and that Arthur has, and everybody is just so like, looked over, and I think needs to be touched on a little more. In the story, many of these people are much older than them. And they are like the guardians, they're looking over them. However, I think that these kids are bright, and they have a and they do get time to be with themselves and that and have their own identities. However, sometimes that I feel in the story, it feels as though all the older people are somewhat controlling. And, and even though they have a lot of freedom and like power, it always feels like there's somebody who's a little better or a little higher up than them, who's making them do things that they might not even want to do. So, Blas, you want to talk a little bit about some of the things? I think in my story, like I talked about earlier, it kind of really affects her familial and dynamics and her friendships. But I think to touch upon the microaggressions part of this, I think the main character kind of does a lot of those, sometimes voluntary, sometimes involuntary towards her family members. If she wants to do something or wants to prove a point to them, like, for example, my main character, Leah, she knows that she wants to be skinny, like, in Chapter 5, she was talking about how she was 99 pounds, but now she wants to be 90. And that's her biggest goal. And so she keeps starving herself in order to do that, to get to that goal. And her family considers that weight like kind of like, kind of like death cons of sorts, where if she does achieve that, then she needs to go stay in like a rehabilitation center like she did before. So yeah, so I was thinking about the microaggressions in my story and how I think the main character, Leah, uses them to kind of persuade her parents to do things for her. Like, for example, she was talking about how she was 99 pounds now, but she wanted to be 90 pounds. But her family considers that kind of like a death con level threat to her safety, which it could be because she is extremely skinny, and that's not very healthy for her considering her size and age. And they were going to send her to a rehabilitation center like she was in before, where she could learn to kind of control, or not control, but she has anorexia. And they wanted her to get rid of that. And they believe that that rehabilitation center could try to achieve that goal. And she hated that place, especially because her biological mother kind of decided to send her to that. So she kind of uses microaggressions to kind of persuade her family not to do that, and to kind of threaten them in a sort. But other than that, I don't think there's any code switching or pressure to conform to traditional gender roles in my story, as the main character kind of doesn't really talk to many people, and she only talks to herself often. And she doesn't really care about gender roles in any sense, because oftentimes, she kind of skips school. And so there's not a lot of pressure on her to conform to those, or social media, or anything that the book elaborates on. But other than that, do you think there's anything else in your story that you would like to add on? No, there isn't very much for me. But I thank you for being on the show. Our final episode in this series, we're going to talk a little bit about powerfulness and tragedy, maybe some universal theme. All right. So I think in this chapter, we're going to be discussing the ideas of powerlessness and tragedy in our stories. Jacob, do you want to talk a little bit about that? In this story, A House in the Cerulean Sea, one example of powerlessness and tragedy that I would like to say is when they were in the village. And one specific example of this is when they were getting ice cream towards the end of their stay at the village. The ice cream man who was serving them, he refused service to them. And he was very angry, and there was a very aggravated situation. And through the whole experience, nobody respected them, and they gave them dirty looks. However, this is more the tipping point. As he was screaming at them, and they were children, and he was just yelling, and they refused service to end. It showed how moments of tragedy was when he yelled at them, but how the power that they had and how they felt very small and little in that moment. Another moment in the story is when Talia and a little girl were just talking with each other. And then all of a sudden, the mom of this little girl pulls her away. And I believe it shows some of the things about how these children feel like they can't do much, and they don't understand, but that people don't respect them for who they are, and they look at them for what's on the outside. Lots do you like to say to me about that? Yeah, in my story, I think there are a lot of times when this occurs, too, especially with my main character and her friends. So to delve into more of the tragedy aspect of it, well, first of all, the main character, her best friend, recently died, as we learn in the beginning of the book. And although she doesn't like to admit it in what she says through the quotations throughout the story, kind of the book talks about her thoughts, and it does really reveal how she is deep down sad about the death of her friend. So that kind of talks a little bit about, well, that kind of explains a little bit about the tragedies in that story. But also, sometimes the main character can also feel powerless because of her anorexia. She feels like she can't really control what she's doing, and it's kind of getting the best of her, and it's controlling her life. But other times, she kind of decides to play into that role, and she uses that to make her family feel powerless, because she kind of sometimes makes them anxious that she'll fall into what they call the danger zone of her weight being under 90 pounds. And she kind of uses that towards to get advantages on whatever she wants in her family. And so sometimes she makes them feel powerless, and so they can't really help her in any way. But then sometimes she feels powerless, so she can't help herself in any way. And those are very commonly recurring themes. And what about the universal theme? Do you have anything to say, Jacob? Yeah. So as I was saying before, as the people don't really see them for who they are on the inside and who they are on the outside, so this is the idea of my universal theme in this story. So many times in the story, these children are looked down upon and are thought of as less than what they really are, just because of what they look like on the outside. And I think an important universal theme that is explored in this novel is more the fact that you should accept others for who they are on the inside and not what they look like on the outside, which to me means that what people feel and act and how they respond to others is much different than how they look or where they come from or how other people see them. And this is similar to the thing, don't judge a book by its cover. However, it goes a little deeper into the fact that understand the book before you read it or before you look at its cover. And to take for an example, Lucy, who is the Antichrist, his parents are Satan and he's looked very much down upon because of the fact that his parents are like that and he has these thoughts of death and sorrow. But many people who are close to him realize he's nice and that it's not his choice. The person he is on the inside does not match who he is on the outside. And at the end of the day, the powers that he has, he would never hurt a soul or anybody he loves. And he really has changed from how blindness first saw him to how he finally saw him at the end of the book when they were all together. So if you had to give the book like one universal theme, what do you think it would be? So I would think it would be except others for who they are on the inside and not who they are on the outside. Yeah, that's a good theme. And then I think the theme of my story kind of revolves a little bit around the same idea, but I would say it would be more to one should try to understand the situation of someone else before making actions upon how that person should act or what they should do or how you should respond to their actions. I think this kind of shows up very often in my story where Leah's parents, they often try to judge her and other people judge her too for her actions. And they sometimes try to help her, which they have positive intent, but they don't understand what it's really doing to her because they don't really, they try to understand her situation and how she thinks and her thought process towards like harming herself or dealing with her anorexia. But oftentimes that just negatively impacts her and she thinks that they're trying to restrict her. And so she kind of continues on with that cycle of harming herself. Yes. And so I think that basically the theme of the story would be to try to understand fully someone's predicament before acting upon it because it can harm them or harm you or it can just lead to more confusion. But I really want to thank you guys for listening to all of our episodes of this podcast. Thank you guys for having me for these episodes and I was so happy to be here. Everybody hit that like button, subscribe button, notifications, they were so nice to me and everything. And I really hope to come back in another episode and I love all you guys and thank you guys for watching.