TWOM - Episode 3: Cultural Difference in Equality, Marriage, Divorce. Who Really Benefits?

The podcast episode discusses cultural differences between Nigeria, Ethiopia, and the United States. They talk about differences in work ethic, education, and gender roles. They also mention the importance of gender equality and the potential pros and cons that come with it. They touch on topics such as arranged marriages, abuse, and divorce. Overall, they emphasize the need for respect and equal opportunities for both men and women. Welcome back everybody to our third episode, our third installment in our podcast, The War on Men, Men's Mental Health. I'm your host, Giovanni Martinez, and I'm here with two new guests. Hello guys, my name is Jeff. Hi, my name is Mary. All right, welcome guys to the podcast. I understand that you guys come from different backgrounds. First of all, I want to highlight cultural differences that you've seen back where you originate from versus here in the United States. Where do I start? I'm Nigerian. I'm very in tune with my culture. Everything here in USA is not very different, but different to an extent from what it is in Nigeria. I guess the main cultural difference between Nigeria and USA is the people. People are different everywhere, but here, one thing I noticed is, and this is not anyone's fault, is mostly the way people were brought up, and they didn't really have to worry about things. Growing up, I feel like they're more, maybe, on serious with stuff, but that's just something I noticed. In Nigeria, people have to pay for school and work hard to get almost everything there. One of the main things I've noticed is the work ethic, the seriousness when it comes to stuff like school, or maybe starting a business or something, and just people's worries in general. Here, people don't really worry about stuff like that. They have, oh, we have insurance. Insurance can take care of that. We can go to school. We don't need to pay for high school, so we can just go to school and get Fs and stuff like that. But in Nigeria, people pay for school fees, and they have to be serious about stuff like that. Another cultural difference, I would say, food and what people wear. So, I'm from Ethiopia, and it's kind of similar. It's kind of similar, my experience, to Jeff's experience, because I feel like a lot of African countries have similar cultures. I want to add on. One thing that's very different with American culture and Ethiopian culture is relationships. So, in Ethiopia, it's unheard of, really, kind of, to date. A lot of marriages are arranged, and everyone is very religious. But everyone's still pretty respectful of other people's religions still. But because everyone is so religious, there's, like, not really such thing as sex before marriage or even baby mamas, baby daddies. That's not a thing in Ethiopia. Everyone is very faithful, so they can't even imagine doing stuff like that. So, here in the U.S., going to high school, having my classmates be pregnant was kind of crazy. But I guess it's not too far off because sometimes classmates in Ethiopia would be, from what I heard from my friends back there, getting into marriages at that age. So, even my grandmother was married, and she had my father at 14. So, I guess that's the equivalent to being pregnant at 14 here. I'd like to just touch on the topic of marriage, and I want to say, like, the rules a little bit. And, Jeff, I saw that you nodded your head that you agreed with some of the things Mary was saying. Highlighting some of the differences back home versus here in the U.S. You know, here in the United States, do you believe that we're currently divided as genders as opposed to back home? Currently in Ethiopia, we have a female president, but we also have a male prime minister. And I guess the entire country is pretty – we're okay with gender equality, I would say. There are some crimes being committed against women, and sometimes women are actually being married off really young against their will. Other than that, I guess, a lot of men do respect women, and a lot of women do respect men. Here, I do see women have more opportunities here, but I also think that – I don't think women have it as bad as they have it back home, as they do here. But I think because women here, they have more opportunities to speak on this type of topic, that they try to take advantage of it. I think that it's good that they're in the media, portraying women in better lights, rather than most of the time that I see it in male-directed films. A lot of the times, the women characters are kind of just there to look pretty. But I like to see how – that's true, Jeff – to see – I like seeing a woman who actually has a good character in a film. So, just good representation is nice. Gender equality is one of those red lines. You have to be careful what you say and share. Gender equality back where I'm from is non-existent. Wait, how do I say this? It is existent. I don't want to over-exaggerate it. Where I'm from is one of those traditional countries where women take care of children. Right now, it's better. But growing up and just looking around the community, there are certain things you see women do, and there are certain things you see men do. Men were kind of expected to pay the school fees, and you saw women do stuff like sell stuff in shops and things like that. And men did more hard-working stuff. Compared to here, I feel like I do see traces of that, like women do certain things and men do certain things. But once in a while, and regularly actually, I do see women that do stuff that men traditionally do, and men do stuff that women traditionally do. So, comparing and contrasting the two, I would say where I'm from is kind of developing in that aspect, where the equality is starting to, like men and women are starting to become more equal, just like the way America is developing in that aspect also. I like that you mentioned development as well. Because there's more, like you said, now that we're getting more traction and having more equality between men and women, what are some of the potential pros and cons that could result of such equality? Because everything always has a good and a bad side to it. Pros and cons. In my opinion, I don't think humans get adapted to things quickly. So, when equality starts to show more, I feel like it would take at least some time for everyone to really adapt. It would take, I don't know, some time for everyone to adapt to equality. And just like the roles, seeing different people do different roles. What cons would be there to gender equality? I don't think there would be any cons to gender equality. I think it would be a good thing. I mean, bringing on equality, what are some of the first things that you think of when it comes to equality between men and women? The first thing that comes to mind regarding equality between men and women, is like women have the same opportunities as men, and men have the same opportunities as women. We're both able, the different sexes are both able to accomplish different things without any bias involved. That this person is a man, so we will better be suited for this, or women better suited for this. So, that's one of the things that comes to my mind. They're both able to achieve different things without biases. I think a lot of marriages will be happier if there really was gender equality, if men really did truly respect women. Because I see a lot of marriages, especially, even if they're arranged, there's no problem with arranged marriage, if both parties are consenting. But I see, you know, after they get into this marriage, the woman, she's sometimes abused by the man. And her parents and his parents don't want to do anything about it. And they just keep telling her, oh, you just have to accept it. You're supposed to accept beatings. You're supposed to accept insults. You know, just accept all these bad things. And I think if they really did respect women, one, that type of relationship wouldn't occur. And two, both the families would understand the woman's perspective. In these marriages also, by the way, divorce is kind of looked down on. And I get it. You know, people, because they, how they feel religiously, they don't want to get a divorce. So, they really do want to be careful picking a husband. Or they really hope that their parents are careful picking a husband for them. And they just, they don't want to leave no matter what. So, I hope that, I guess, through gender equality, if this is ever accomplished. If equality is ever accomplished. That's crazy. If equality is ever accomplished, do you think women should be held responsible for the things that they do as severely as men do? Because those also have to be shared as well. And in marriage, it's really, marriages are really set up mainly for women in the event that something does happen. Look at my man, brother Jeff Bezos. He started from the ground up. And then half of his fortune was taken away by his wife. Look at brother Ye. He got his kids taken away. He got his money taken away. He got a part of his rent taken away. First of all, okay, the first example you brought up, Jeff Bezos. Jeff Bezos admitted to cheating on his wife. And he accepted divorce. Because, you know, if you cheat, it's understandable your partner is going to ask for a divorce or ask to break up, right? Second of all, him and his partner got together before his fortune, when he was broke. That's when they, I think that's around the time they got married or even were dating. So that's when the marriage agreement was made, the contract saying she would take this percent of his fortune, which was nothing at the time when they got married. So I guess that's how the court, you know, just handled things. And she got cheated on, you know? So, like, she wanted to have some money. And the other example you gave, Kanye, you know, money back for, you know, as a reward. You know, he needed to be punished. But the other example you had, Kanye, yeah, he got his kids taken away from him. But that's, yeah, gender equality, but because of the stereotype that women are supposed to be in the house taking care of the kids, that's still around today. Even in the courts today, they're most likely going to grant the women, the kids in the case because of that. Because of the stereotype that women, they don't really, they're not supposed to go out and work. They're supposed to just take home, stay home, take care of the kids. The man, if he gets the kids, he's not going to be home for them. He'll be at work. But that's not how it is today, really. Women, they're taking care of the kids and they're going to work, you know? So that's why they usually still to this day do that. So also they have to evaluate both partners' mental health to see who's really the most fit to take care of kids. With child support, okay, sometimes I think the amount might be too grand, especially if the woman has enough money. But I don't think it's a problem, especially if a father is, like, not willing to be in his child's life at all. I think to, like, replace, I guess, the emotional support that the kid was supposed to get from the father, what's wrong with asking for thousands of dollars per month, especially if you're not visiting the kid at all? And also, I guess there's a problem. You see women, sometimes they're using this child support money for their nails, for other stuff. Well, then the courts just need to do a better job regulating the money that's being used. You went back to my example of Brother Basil's and you said that he cheated. But what happens in the event that a woman cheats and she still wants a divorce and then ends up making the false claims against the man? Because that happens a lot. If a woman were to say something with no evidence whatsoever, even if she were to just say it, people everywhere would automatically believe the woman. Women tend to benefit more off of marriage. In all honesty, what does a marriage do for a man? Because, first of all, in order to properly get married, you need to... I mean, I don't know how the marriage process works, but I know it's a paper, and if it's a legal document, I'm assuming you're going to have to get some form of lawyer and pay some fee. So that's already wasting time and money to set up that thing, to sign a piece of paper. And you could just say, my original thought was just get a prenup. But in order to get a prenup, in order to protect yourself, you could put a prenup in effect, and you would still need to waste more time and more money for that. So it's the prenup, then the marriage. Why go through all of that when you can just get married by, well, I'm going to just say by the church, but you could say through whatever religion you can do. And in my personal opinion, if you truly love one another, that shouldn't be an issue. There shouldn't be any piece of paper that says, oh, this is my person, I love them, and then here's the proof. My word should just be enough. Your word to one another should be enough. There shouldn't be anything. I mean, obviously, you know, some circumstances, you know, like child support, yeah, you would need to pay. That makes sense. I understand child support. If you leave a woman pregnant, yeah, it's your responsibility. You fucked up. I mean, I don't know how it looks in your guys' culture. Yeah, marriage is like, it's another very, like, sensitive topic. And I was listening to what Gio and Miriam said. Very both, like, somewhat, like, different views on marriage and how it works. So Gio, you mentioned about, like, not getting married on paper. And I can see why you kind of, like, think like that. But, yeah, it would be good if you could just, like, say, oh, I love this person. And we could just go get married without going to court and, like, legalize me and doing all that stuff. But thinking about it, if something happens in the future, let's say, okay, you have children with your wife. And then you decide you don't want to be together anymore. If there's no, like, legal documentation, then it's harder for, like, the woman to get stuff like child support or any support she needs for the children. Like, at that point, the man can just, like, leave and nothing will be done. Also, like, love should be enough. But, like, in the situation of what Miriam said with Jeff Bezos cheating on his wife, I don't know if that is true or I don't know. But let's say someone in the marriage actually ends up cheating. And at that point, you're like, oh, bro, I can't take this. I have to leave this person. Yeah, at the beginning, like, love was enough. If something like that happens and you want to leave the person, you're going to have to leave. People change eventually, I feel. People grow. People maybe don't grow. So, if someone in the marriage is growing and the other person isn't and they're, like, changing, at a point, they may decide I don't want to be with this person anymore. And on the topic of divorce, I don't really care about, like, the man and the woman. The people that mostly get, like, affected by it are, like, the children, if they have children. I feel like people, before you get married, I don't know, at least know each other, like, for, I don't know, four years, three years? No, three years is too little. Four years or even five years, bro. Know each other. Because, like, I think about it and, like, when I see stuff, like, in court or, like, on TV, I don't really care about, oh, the man is going, he has to pay child support. Like, the children, they're going to be, like, they're going to get, like, fucked up going from one place to the other. Oh, I have to go spend time with my dad this week. I have to go spend time with my mom next week. Like, that shit fucks children up. And in a marriage, men, women, do not fucking abuse your partner emotionally or physically. Do not do that. Because it really fucks up the children and the partner. So, just get a divorce. Fuck up one person and not fucking two people. And, yeah, I guess that's my idea on that situation, on marriage. When you brought up the abusive relationships, we often see abusive relationships as the guy abusing the woman. Why do you think we don't talk about that as much as we talk about the woman's side? We don't really talk about the woman abusing the guy or abusive mothers as well. Yeah, it's true. We see the man leaving the family, leaving the kids, whatever, and, you know, cheating on the wife. But we don't talk about the opposite side of the spectrum of the woman. She's on the guy. Or even when the woman, the mom, attains full custody of the kids but is an extremely toxic mom. I've seen cases where the father tries to connect with his kids, you know, pays child support on time, all the time, and tries to really be part of, integrate himself into the lives of his kids, but the mom ends up making lies and trying to turn his own kids against him and trying to separate them. That's another thing we must talk about when talking about equality. I do agree with Gio. In situations where there's, like, abuse in a relationship, most of the ones you see on the news or, like, in an article, and people use this as, like, clickbait and stuff, you hear, oh, the man was abusive, he did this, he did that. But, like, out there somewhere, there's a man fucking getting abused by his girlfriend, but, like, if someone heard about that, they would be like, well, he's a fucking man, bro, fucking stand up for yourself and shit. So, I feel like men are fucking seen as, you're, like, stronger, you should be able to, like, get out of that situation. Whereas women and children are seen as, like, I don't know if it's called, like, the PC effect, like, oh, they PC, like, the woman and, like, the children. And, yes, they should, because, like, I know abusive relationships is, like, a fucked up situation, but, like, men do also go through stuff like that, and, yeah, women also go through stuff like that. So, I feel like more people should talk about men being in abusive situations. Well, we're running out of time here, but any final thoughts? Final thoughts here. Men and women, honestly, are confused. Like, we don't know, I don't think there's a perfect way it can all turn out where, like, everyone is equal and we don't have any problems associated with that, like, equality. I don't know if, like, I feel like there will always be stuff that, like, women are, like, better at doing and, like, stuff men are better at doing. My final thoughts are I think people should be gender equalists. Thank you. I agree with Brother Jeff saying that we both have our differences and we should accept and embrace those differences. Yes, we should treat each other with equality and respect, most of all. That is all we have for today. Hope you guys enjoyed our small episode, our third installment in our series, The War Against Men, Men's Mental Health. And I want to thank our two guests, Jeff and Maria, for coming on the show today. And I will catch you guys in the next episode. Ciao.