Use Your Voice

The podcast discusses how to talk about sensitive topics, such as being homophobic, and how to approach difficult conversations. They address questions about a white man using a racial slur, how to confront someone about hurtful or offensive remarks, and how to explain the validity of transgender identities. They emphasize the importance of trying to get others to understand and change, even though it can be challenging. They also acknowledge that some people may be resistant to change or unwilling to accept their mistakes. Hi, everyone. I'm Hannah. I'm Joseph. And this is the Use Your Voice podcast. We're going to discuss how to talk about others, about being homophobic, or how to talk to people about sensitive topics and hard conversations. We had some people send us some questions, so we're going to try to answer them as neutral as possible and not be biased. The first one is, is a white man who says the N-word with a heart R a lost cause? That's a good question. Yeah, so, yeah, the writer wrote in this question, and we wanted to put it in because we thought it was a good one just to start the whole discussion with, because even though it might feel like they're a lost cause, they're not a lost cause. Yeah, I can relate to this one because it's getting a little personal here, but my grandpa says it pretty often, and at times I do think he's a lost cause, but I still hold that little bit of hope that maybe it'll change. I don't know. Probably not, but... It's definitely hard trying to talk to them about it, because you don't know how to discuss it with them sometimes, if they're going to listen to you, and might change. That's kind of the whole point of this podcast, and the rest of these questions add up to this, is to help us figure out how to talk to them, and then help create better situations where maybe they might understand and start to change a little bit. Yeah, I think, too, it kind of depends, also, because if someone tries it multiple times to bring up the conversation, or keeps trying to not necessarily change them, but help them out with stuff like that, and they're just not budging or moving on that, then I would say it's probably a lost cause, but at least if you put in the effort and they do change, then I think that's okay, but it happens multiple times, so... I don't know if I've had a lot. How do you bring it up with your grandpa, or how do you ever brought it up with your grandpa before? Nope, I haven't. Yeah. Because for me, and also, I probably will now, because ever since I came out here, I've been way more independent and outspoken, so now I probably would, but in the past, I have videos with him. This is a little off-topic, but he's just like, yeah, what is LGBTY? What is that? That's so weird. And I'm just sitting there recording him, and I've never said anything in the past, but now, I will definitely say something like, someone help me, I'm getting ready to go back to Virginia for two weeks, and I guarantee it's going to get brought up, so I've got to be prepared. Yeah, so this is going to help you too. But yeah, I've never brought it up, because I know him, and I know how hard-headed and stubborn he is, so I know that there's pretty much no movement, but I think I would still bring it up, honestly. I feel you. I have grandparents similar to that, and even my parents sometimes, I mean, everyone says things, like they grew up with certain words, and then as we learn more, words change, or not words change, but we understand the meanings, and we realize we shouldn't be saying those words. So when I bring it up with them, it's like that first wall, it's always difficult sometimes, because they don't want, like, no one likes to be called if they're racist, or called out, or like, I have to change, so nobody wants that, so you have to kind of break through that wall, and then they'll start listening, hopefully, and usually, I don't even feel like if it's even in that moment, like with my parents at least, in the moment, they're kind of like, uh, what? And then, like, afterwards, they're like, yeah, yeah, I got you, I shouldn't say that differently, but grandparents sometimes, my grandpa, well, it's also, I mean, it's like generations, like, you're not going to change that about people, but, well, okay, ready for the next one? Yeah. Okay, this is going to be a good one. I'm excited for this one. How to tell someone that what they are saying is not cool, and extremely hurtful, or offensive. Um, one of our notes in this one is, once again, my grandpa, so, um, I pretty much will say all the men in my life are extremely difficult to listen to. Um, I'm going to share a story really quick. Yeah. And this is probably worse than anything I've ever heard, and I would never share this, like, to just someone that I don't know. Um, my mom told me this, actually. Um, so, my dog was, like, the mailman had came, or the UPS guy, or whatever, had came, like, to drop a package off, and the guy was black, whatever, that does not matter. Right. And my stepdad was like, the dog, my dog's name is Albie. Okay. And my stepdad was like, well, Albie, you can't get a squirrel, but you can get a blank, or put the, like, an N. And he also used the hard R, which is so hard for me to even, like, it's so hard for me to even process that. Like, that is so, like, you would never say that to him in person. Never. No. No one would ever talk like that. No. No. But I'm like, you're gonna sit here and say it behind the door. Like, just, that's so, that's, like, so hurtful. Right, it's so hurtful. Yeah. I'm like, what do I, yeah, and then I hit the phone, so. Yeah. Like, I'm not doing this right now, but. Damn. Like, I don't even know how to tell, like, how do I, I mean, he knows, like, he's not a dumb guy, like, he knows what he's saying is extremely wrong, but. Yeah, no, it's hard to, like, tell them, talk about it in a way where you get them to care. Yeah. Because you can tell them, and then, like, if they don't care, like, you're saying, like, I mean, this is where the last question really comes into play, and the last cause is, is do they care? Like, trying to make it, to help them care, and, like, we can't really control that, because that's really difficult to do, but it's, yeah, so, I, that's a crazy story. You didn't even tell me that in prep. Right, I'm sorry. It just popped up, but I was like, you know what, let's bring it up. That's insane. But, I mean, it goes along with the question, like, how to tell someone, I mean, how, like, you have to be, like you just said, you have to be willing to accept that you're wrong, like. Yeah. And some people are just not going to, like, I mean, yeah, it's like. So, how do you think you, if, if you were, if you, if he called you right now, how do you, and did, like, the exact same conversation verbatim, how do you think he would respond? If he said that, and I heard it? Yeah. I would probably be like, what did you just say? And then, I think that's what I asked initially, actually, and he was like, what? And I just hung up, but I would probably be like, what you just said is, like, not okay at all. Like, do you realize what you just said? And knowing my stepdad, he would probably be like, yeah? Like, that's not okay, what you just said. Yeah. There's no, like, remorse, there's no, oh, I did something wrong. Yeah. Like, there's none of that, none. So, I'm like, how do I, like, how do I say something that's actually going to impact? So, I'm like, I don't want to sit here and blabber to him, because that's not going to do anything. So, I would probably just be like, whatever you, like, what you just said is not okay. Like, you would never say that in person with somebody. No. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's kind of, in that situation, all you can do. Yeah. Because it's not like a lot of education is going to help them. I think, like you were saying, like, they kind of know. Yeah, I mean, they're stuck in their ways. Like, you've been around for 50 something, yeah, like, yeah. No, it really is. Okay. And then, one of our little bullet points was, someone who doesn't view a transgender woman or man as a complaint woman for men. This is really big on social media right now, on the internet. Yeah, it's, I hear this one a lot, where, like, I have some family members where this one comes into play, where they bring up just different aspects, or like, it's like, there seems to be this gatekeeping going on, where there's this line that they can only be so much of a woman, or so much of a man, and they can't really get past that. And so, this one, I feel like, is really where you have to almost try to understand, not try to understand necessarily, but also listen, maybe that's better, to listen to what they're trying, like, why they have that gatekeeping mindset, and then helping them see the difference there, and, like, what is gender, and you have to, this is where it's really hard to have that casual versus serious conversation. I don't know if you can have, like, maybe you can bring it up as, like, in a casual way, yeah, but the conversation's not going to be casual. No, especially with this one. I feel like, with, like, your stepfather, all the men in my life, yeah, all the men in Hannah's life, like, you can do that one pretty casually without it getting serious, because, like, those are kind of, like, well-known ideas or topics, like, we know not to say the N-word, but they're doing it anyway. But this one's more, they definitely should know, like, obviously they should know, they should understand, and a transgender woman is a complete woman, and a transgender man is a complete man, but they, it's hard, it's a little bit, for some people, I would say it's kind of a newer concept for them to try to grasp. But I know people who also, who their family members, like, have no idea what it is, but they're open, they're like, I don't understand, I have no idea, but, like, I'm open to at least listening, and, like, here's what you have to say. Yeah, and I would say even most of those people have that hidden bias, like, where they don't even realize, they don't, they don't view them that way, because if you ask them, they'd be like, yeah, no, they're a woman, and then, like, as you talk about it, like, they might make a comment, or might do something, or say something, you're like, oh, this is kind of just a blind spot you have, and that's where you could totally bring that up in a casual way, or like, hey, like, I just noticed, like, you said this, and then go from there. Yeah, no, everyone has blind spots. Even the, I don't know if you've seen it, but the thing in Florida with the school, and it was something about, one of my other classes brought it up, it was something about a trans woman, I think, playing, like, a sport or something, and apparently the principal and the athletic director knew about it, which, whatever, yeah, and the, like, school board ended up, like, firing both the AD and the principal because of it, and there was a whole, yeah, there was a whole walkout about it that happened a couple days ago, I believe. Not even that, like, you fire two people, like, that's people's jobs, like. No, just because they were being inclusive, like. Right, right. For all you people out in Florida, I feel for you. Yeah, like, I would never move to Florida, ever. No. What, it's too hot for me here, too. Yeah, I can't live like that, that's for real. I used to be more afraid to live in Texas, though, like. Florida and Texas, you guys, neck and neck now. Yeah, something just happened in Texas, too, where this lady got an emergency abortion. Oh, I was, yeah, I've seen that. And people were like, what just happened? Like, what? So, um, okay, let's, the next one someone said was, how do we talk about marginalized communities without making myself the protagonist of the story? Different stuff. This is really tough, since we're two white people making a podcast. Great. Um, how do we talk about, I think something that I really take, like, pride in is going back to where I'm from. I mean, I would say 90% of my friends were Black in high school, which is something that I'm really proud of, and I'm like, hell yeah, like, those are my best friends. I still talk to them to this day. But I think, I was talking to a lot of my friends last night, and it's just like, the things that happen and the things people say, it's, again, hard to say something because of my position, like, being, and especially for you being a white male, like, that's even above, like, me, like, for example, not saying that you're above me, but. No, I get what you're, I understand what you're saying, because it's, I have to, like, be aware, almost, of, like, where my people who are white males are in society and in our place, and, like, the way we've controlled most of these conversations in the past. And so, for me, like, as I'm, like, working through this to try to not do that, I think, one is listening. Yeah. I think that's a big part of it. And then, telling, not using, like, I, but saying things, like, that you've heard other people say. So, if you follow an influencer, if you follow a journalist or an author or another, like, podcast or whatever, quoting them, bringing them into the story, telling their story is very difficult. Like, that's, that would be how you would, I think you would make yourself not the protagonist, where you're just not necessarily speaking for, but you're bringing up other people's perspectives, not your own. Yeah. And then not flipping it onto yourself, because, like, one of the things I've noticed I used to do a lot more that I try not to do as much is, like, talk about how I would feel if that happened to me, and I feel like that kind of shifts it, instead of just being, like, this is what this person said it felt like, and that sounds awful. Right. And then that way you're talking more about these people, rather than yourself. Yeah. Yeah, I think even, I totally agree with that, but, like, at times I've been, like, put into a group of people that I don't agree with, and, like, it's hard for me to say something, because I'm, like, I don't want to, like, I don't want to draw attention to myself, or I don't want to make myself seem like I'm better. So, like, in the past, I kind of just, like, kept quiet. Like, that happened to me a couple of times, where I was, like, whatever, white people believe, like, in this, and I was just, like, thrown in that group, and I'm, like, like a good example, that is, like, the police brutality, like, when that happened. That was when I was, like, really good friends with all of my, like, my friends, and, like, at times I just be thrown into that whole, like, white power, and I'm, like, hold up, like, I am not, like, don't, please don't put me in that, like, group, like, and I feel like that's also kind of part of it, like, making sure that marginalized communities know, like, that people, like, support them, and they're not always, like, with the larger, like, bigger group, I guess. Yeah. That makes sense. That was kind of complicated. No, I think it does make sense, too. You can totally bring that up, and then, and say that without, like, totally hating on their perspective pretty easily, where you're just talking, like, I get what you're saying, where, like, it does, like, the big group is there. Yeah. But I, I'm trying not to be like that. I hope you feel that way. Yeah. And, like, still, like, keeping their stuff at the front of it, but also being, like, kind of, like, in a sense, like, defending yourself a little bit. Yeah. Hold on. Yeah. No, I feel you. And I think there is a, there is a time where you, where you can, I think, when you're talking to the people, when you're telling them that something's not cool, or extremely hurtful, or offensive, or someone who you might think is a lost cause, sometimes making it more personal for them would help in that situation. So, I don't think this is, like, a hard rule, but I do think very few, like, there are times to do it, but there's other times when we want to try to focus more on the actual people who are going through it, rather than what it would be like if we went through it. Yeah. We, we, we can't even comprehend. Yeah. Okay. So, should I get upset that every live media organization has their token members of the marginalized communities that are, what's that word, question? Trotted. Okay. Out only to discuss those issues, not allowing them to, like, someone who's a member of that community. I think that's something more complex. Yeah, this is a really tough question, I think. I know I struggle with this one a lot, because I'll see, I'll be watching, like, CNN with, like, Anderson Cooper, or just, like, just in general, turning on the TV, and when they're talking about, uh, talking to the queer community, they have very specific spokespeople come on, talk about it, that your host is still in person, um, which Anderson Cooper is gay, too, so, like, that one's not necessarily the greatest example, but, yeah, when you're talking about, um, like, race, and, like, what we were talking about with the, um, Black Lives Matter, like, there were tons of, um, not necessarily co-hosts, but guests who were part of that community, but now, like, famous, like, you all know them, yeah, exactly, and now, like, two years later, the shows have kind of gone back to their standard form, those guests are either gone, there's no new co-hosts, there's not a lot of new shows from it, I feel like that have broken on to the scene, like, it's kind of just the same, and then you, and it's hard, because you give these people a voice for those things, but then you keep them in a box, and then you also don't give them platforms to have their own places to be heard, you're just still on other people's shows. Yeah, it's almost like the marginalized, like, people in a group, like, their voice is through someone more powerful than them, like, the message that they want to say, they can't say it publicly, or, like, on a giant platform themselves, they have to get someone else to say it for them, because people are like, we don't want to see someone that we don't know, like, we want to see a famous person, like, an athlete, someone that has power, you know, for years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, I was even gonna go back to, like, Black Lives Matter and that kind of stuff, like, for me, I always saw sports, and I always saw LeBron James, or I always saw, I don't know who else, like, excuse my big face, um, someone like that, where it's like, everyone knows him, so everyone's gonna pay attention, right, like, that, I think it also has something to do with money, like, that's also true, I think that's a giant point, is the money, what everyone's about, they're like, if you don't have money, we don't really want anything to do with you. Yeah. It's so unfortunate. And the money in the sense, also, like, the shows have to have viewership, and they're only gonna, like, click on, or turn on the TV to watch something that they're probably already interested in. I feel like this one's tough, because I think we can get upset about it, but I do think this is one where we have to look at our own blind spots, and be like, okay, I do watch these people, but if the big media companies aren't gonna click them on, then I should go out of my way and find the shows with the representation, and with the people who are only guests, who only get certain spotlights, and can only talk about one thing, and find their content to see them as a full person, and allow them to exist and support them in that way. I think this is something, most of these talks are, like, talking to other people, but I feel like this is something we can, like, control in our own lives. I think a really good example of that, too, is, like, TikTok. There's a lot of people that I follow and watch on there that are not, like, big names or celebrities, but, like, the information and content that they have is, like, amazing. It's almost, I would say, probably 80% of the time better than what I watch on TV. Oh, yeah. And they're not even, you know, they're just people that are voicing their opinions, and it's, I mean, I think that's, like, an awesome way to watch something like that and learn, but not on a giant scale. Exactly, and then allowing people the platform to talk about things other than just, if they're Black, just talking about being Black. Like, they can share their full human experience, which not everyone gets to do that, like, which is, that, to me, is one of the things that really frustrates me, and it's, that's why this is a good question. All right, this is gonna be our last question, though. How to share, or how do I share media about controversial topics with people in a way that they will still, like, want to consume it? Honestly, I've had a really tough time with this. I did a presentation about this, and I have decided that I'm just gonna post it, and if you don't like it, then don't watch it. Don't look at it. Like, because for me, I've always, like, I want to post things about, like, things that I believe in, but I've always been so nervous of people seeing it and then judging me and being like, you believe in this? Like. And your family's so accepting already, where they, they're just so kind. I'm sure they would love to see that on my social media. No, yeah, they, their comment, your comment section from them would be so nice, like, they wouldn't say anything where you're I love this question, because I feel like I relate to it so much. Honestly, yeah, I, I say, like, look, it's a lot easier said than done to just post what you want to post. I totally get that, but, I mean, you can't, like, hide yourself, you know? Like, you can't hide your beliefs. Like, only for so long would you be able to do that. No, it's definitely true. That's where it becomes, it's really hard to operate as a human being when you're constantly thinking about how to act in a way to get other people to be happy for you. How to accept you. Yeah, how to accept you. That's very difficult, rather than just finding the people who do accept you. I feel like this question does have two parts where it's, like, sharing it, like, on social media, and then also, like, texting it to a sibling or something, I think is, is, is interesting. I feel like I've had times where I've, like, my dad, for example, I've sent him stuff, and he's reacted, like, one or two ways where he's, like, that's crazy, I don't really believe that. Or, like, wow, like, that's, that's tough. And I think, like, it's about, one, like, their mindset, which you can't really control. Nope. But I do think you can either measure the stuff you're sending it, where it's very specific, where it's, like, one person's specific experience. And then when you have it from a source that they're going to recognize, I think that helps a lot. And then the way you frame it. Those are kind of the three things I would say, if you're doing, like, individual, if you're going with, like, online, I think that's, that's pretty much up to you on, because you can't, we can't control if people will do something. Right. Like, if they're going to consume it, like, that's just not what it is. Yeah. Yeah, I like that a lot. Um, actually, yeah, I know a lot of people that are kind of, I've talked to other people, and they're like, I'm just afraid to post it, like, the backlash that I know I'm going to get, or the DMs on Instagram that I know I'm going to get. I'm like, but I also think at the end of the day, you can't live your life for someone else. And, like, you can't, and again, this is a lot easier said than done. But you can't just let someone tell you don't post that and then not post it. That's what you believe. That's what you support. Like, there are other people that do support the same thing. Otherwise, it wouldn't be out there. So I think it's also like, and you pointed this out a little bit like finding the right community, finding the right people that support it. Yeah. No, I think that's it. But if you guys have any questions, or further questions or comments, like, I'm sure you guys have a lot more interesting things to say, than we probably do. Please throw it in the comments, and then we can or message us or email us or DM us. Yeah, hopefully, we're sharing this controversial information. Well, I don't think it's that controversial, but in a way you want to consume it. I mean, if we're not, then you probably shouldn't. I might just send this to my family today. Yeah, I would love to hear this. I love that you're like, I never tell a random person this, but then you said it on a podcast to people. Yeah, see, there we go. Progress. So we have one other little thing we want to talk about, just like some general tips. Um, this one is very easy to say, but a lot of people do not do it. Yeah. It's thinking before you speak. Please, like, realize what you say. I mean, words are very hurtful. Like, words can really impact someone's mental health. I know one of our classmates, she is a trans woman, and some of the stories that she has told is, like, really stuck with me because it's like, people say things and they just have no idea how hurtful or how it puts someone in such a negative space that it can really impact them. Yeah. No, it's definitely true. And I feel like this tip goes back to the putting people in a box that we've kind of talked about, because when you think, I feel like the thinking before you speak is all about thinking about, okay, this is a complete human being. This is a person. They're not just a trans woman. Like, this is a human. And then talking to them and treating them like another human being. Like, that's really, I feel like that's how it is. I think there are some people who overanalyze what they're saying, and then that's when they're like, yeah. And like, that's super difficult, because I do that too all the time. I have to put a full, yeah, I have to put a full sentence together in my head before I say it. Yeah, I have no problem with that, though, because I'm like, at least I know, like, what I'm saying. I'm okay with it. I have no regrets about what I'm saying, like, cool. And then as, and I feel like as we talk to those things, to them, at least for me, as I've seen, as I've thought about them as a complete person, as I'm talking to them, I've needed less of that, like, complete sentence, because then I'm just like, I'm just talking to you. Yeah. And I'm not going to be like, okay. Yeah. I'll get there eventually. Another one was, take time alone to finally examine your biases. Like, biases, biases, yeah. The plural form of bias. Yeah. I, I would say this when I also had a difficult time with, and I would say most recently, I just discovered them kind of this year, because of the classes I took. Again, like, for me, my family kind of formed all of my thoughts, all of my beliefs, which now, God help me, they're so bad. But I think it's also important to be able to, like, realize them and accept them. You're like, yeah, this is, this is a bias I have. Like, I have it. It's hard for me to change it. I did a, I can't remember the initial score, but it's a body size, like, test to see, like, how, like, how you feel about plus sized people or whatever. And the test results were, I was like, oh my God, like, I'm kind of, like, biased towards plus sized people. And that was so hard for me to accept. I told my professor, I was like, I feel like a shitty person. Like, yeah, but that's, like, it was hard for me to even accept that that was, like, a bias that I just, like, just was in my head. Like, it's, I couldn't change it. And I'm like, no, like, I don't feel like that. But that test told me completely, like, something else, which was really hard to accept. No, yeah, that's, that's a tough one, whenever you have your biases revealed and you're like, this is the person I don't want to be like this. It kind of, like, questions your whole existence, where you're like, this is who I am. It's like, oh, maybe I'm not that person. And that's where I feel like we, like, I feel like this, the best part about this is remembering that, like, we each have biases and, like, that's a part of being human. And that's where, that's why I think, like, thinking about them is so important, where we can, like, accept other people that they have biases too, and that we have biases. Because if we just don't think about it, then, like, like, for me, if I would have taken that test too, and not thought about that, I would have been like, no, I'm not biased. Like, this test is wrong. Like, what are you talking about? I'm not, I'm not. It's hard for someone to accept it. Yeah. But I think it does benefit you if you're able to accept it. Oh, for sure. Because then you can work on it. Like, I think, like, your own biases can't be changed all the way. But if you're aware of them, you can work on them. Exactly. And all emotions are, are valid. Like, feeling bad about it, or feeling, like, being like, oh, I feel like a bad person is totally normal. And I think that's just a part of recognizing. Yeah. Like, okay, I do need to change. Yeah. Even though you're not, obviously, Hannah. But. And then another one we had was, this was kind of, kind of goes tied along with everything, but form your own beliefs and what you support. Again, this is when I came out to Utah. I was, like, independent. I was like, I can believe whatever I want to believe. Like, I can do whatever I want to do. I can think whatever I want to think. And I don't have to do what people say. Like, and I don't mean that in like, just, um. But I think that's so important. Like, you're your own human. You don't have to follow in someone else's footsteps. And you don't have to fit in. Like, you just, like, in a box. Yeah. Like, I feel like for so long, I was put in this box to be, like, hardcore Republican. Like, hardcore Trump. Like, and that's just how I was raised. And I was like, you know, no. Like, that's not who I am. Like, and that's okay. Now you have the freedom to put a creature sucking a bomb. Yes. Stick her on your water bottle. Yeah. Actually, funny story. I am terrified to take this water bottle home because I do not want my family to see it. But I'm going to take it home because, you know what? Hell yeah. Because I am. It's fine. You're just going to deal with it. If you don't like it, then let's go. No, I do. Actually, it's funny you say that. Because I have this, like, very similar water bottle. It's just, it's stoned to shit or, like, fainted or fuck off. Like, I don't give a fuck. And my family's Mormon. And I'm not anymore. And so, like, bringing my water bottle back the first time was so stressful. But, like, after a little bit, it was fine. Like, my dad and I laughed about it. So it was, it was good. But. Yeah, that's what we have to deal with as Mormons. Yeah. Okay, what is. That's a trip. Yeah. And then our last one was, you're responsible for other people's beliefs, comments, or behavior. I love this one. Because, I mean, yeah, like, you might not agree with it. And you may think, like, oh my gosh, like, how could you even believe that? But again, we kind of talked about this. I don't want to be repetitive, but we kind of talked about this earlier. Like, people are who they are. Like, like, we just talked about forming your own beliefs. Like, they're going to form their own beliefs. And depending on, I would say, like, age, I mean, social, all those things, like, play a part in how someone, like, behaves and what they believe in. 100%. And I think this also is a big thing, at least for me, I've seen where when I'm, when I do feel responsible for other people's opinions, I'm way more aggressive when talking to them about this stuff. Or I'm, I don't listen as much. I'm like, I have to just get you to change your mind. Like, just think differently. Think the way I want you to think. That's funny. But like, when, when I do realize that I'm not responsible, that this is another human being with full autonomy, like, I'm another human being with full autonomy, like, we can, I can, like, hear their opinions, have a better discussion where we're both, like, understanding each other, and then building connections and moving on. Like, it's, there's not that pressure. Yeah. And I don't feel, like, bad that I couldn't convince them. Yeah. It's not like the opposite. And it's like an argument, not even an argument, but if it's, like, hot topic, and, like, I know that I'm just not going to get anywhere. I'm just, like, I'm not doing it. So I'll just, like, just be quiet and just let them roll with it. Yeah. I feel like it's a balance. It's also, like, so frustrating trying to get someone to see, like, your point of view. I think that's something that I've also, like, Yeah. grown with a lot is, yeah, I completely disagree with what you're saying, but I'm open to listening to what you have to say. That's cool. No. You're probably not going to change my mind, but I will not be rude and, like, interrupt you and et cetera. A hundred percent. And I do think, I did like what you said, though, about the listening. I think there's a time and place where some of these people, or not just some of these people, everyone needs to be heard and listened to. And so allowing people to simply share and listen and then being, like, if someone who is a white male but has grown up in a lot of poverty and, like, has been systematically oppressed in their own ways, and then when they hear the power shift and stuff going on, like, what are you talking about? Like, now I'm going to, like, they feel like they're going to go even further back. And, like, giving them the space to voice that allows them to have more space in their own head to relate to and understand what other people are, what we're talking about when we talk about, like, Lives Matter movement or queer movement or just any of them. And I think that they'll be more able to listen to you because you guys have that connection, that trust. Um, okay. Promise, promise, promise. It's blabbering. So we kind of wanted to add a little something that was a little different. I know for me, we touched on this a little bit earlier. Like, just looking on Instagram and, like, TikTok has been really helpful for me because I don't feel like I am, I don't want to say supporting, but I'm not, like, drawn into the giant names or companies. Like, I'm looking at smaller, like, just people who voice their opinions. So we had a couple of media suggestions. I think, did you put that one on there? Yeah. Yeah. It's a book called White Fragility. I don't know if anyone's heard about that book or not. It's a book written to help white people, like, be able to understand racism and then also learn how to talk about racism with other people and understand why it's hard for white people to talk about racism. And it's written by a white woman. And so it's from another person's white perspective. And that's what it is. So it will help you a lot if you're, for a lot of these questions, there's a lot of commentary that connects to these questions. Yeah. And then, so we kind of went through, like, Instagram, Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it. It's hard for me to call it anything other than Twitter. And TikTok. I know on Instagram, I follow a page called The Feminist. It's a pretty, it's a big, I was trying to find some bigger and smaller, like, platform. The Feminist is, like, a giant one. I think it has, like, over 4 million followers, something like that. That's a lot. But it is the name, Feminist. They just post a bunch of, I think it's pretty much daily content. And I really like going on there and looking, because it kind of keeps me updated with, like, world issues or, like, I talked about the Florida thing. Oh, really? Like, I would have never known that. Like, I haven't seen anything on the news. Nothing. So I feel like that's why I really like it, because it keeps me updated and, like, current. And then, I think you showed that one. Oh, yeah. Laddergate Stories. This is one that I love. I think it's smaller, too, but I also think they have a pretty big following. Like, it's kind of, they have some media stuff that's kind of bigger, but it's still kind of niche, because it's for people who are queer and grew up Mormon, and I'm bi. So, like, I love this page. Like, they talk a lot about some Mormon stuff, and then there's some other things that are comical, but also very serious. And so I really appreciate it. And I think, like, it's just another good outlet to, like, flirt a little bit about. I need to follow that one. It's good. It's good. I just looked it up. Feminist has 6.1 million followers, so it's definitely a bigger platform, but it's really good. I love it. That's awesome. And then we talked about it a little bit. Like, we wanted to find a specific person, and for people that don't know who Maya Moore is, she is one of the greatest, I guess this is kind of a personal opinion, but one of the greatest, like, WNBA players ever. And a couple of years ago, I don't remember the exact date, but she ended up retiring early to fight social justice, and she's been doing it for four or five years now. And she's on X or Twitter. And I really, really, really like going to her page and reading. I think she actually, I don't know if she has a book, maybe. But the stuff she posts is really, really good. I love it. And I feel like she's also very, she's not biased. Like, she keeps it real, which I love. She's not one-sided, which is something I really appreciate. So if you don't know who that is, go to her Twitter, X. And she's really awesome. Yeah. Well, that's kind of all we got for today, but we'll be back next week, so send us your questions or comments, and we'll refer back to comments, like, about this conversation in the next one, too, if you tell us we were horribly wrong, which we probably are. Yeah, we're not perfect, but it's a little, what's the word I'm trying to think of? Personal opinion. Yeah. But try to keep it as neutral as possible. So, yeah. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in, and we'll talk to you guys soon. Bye!