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Prof. Shlomo Maital and Rabbi Elisha Wolfin discuss Parashat Ki Tissah
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Prof. Shlomo Maital and Rabbi Elisha Wolfin discuss Parashat Ki Tissah
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Professor Shlomo Yital and Elisha Wolfin discuss the concept of God's presence and absence in Parashat Ki Tissa. They explore the idea of Tzimtzum, the belief that God has withdrawn from the world, and discuss the impact of this belief on our experiences of loneliness and suffering. They also examine the role of social media in exacerbating feelings of loneliness and depression, as well as the importance of recognizing our inherent worth and not comparing ourselves to others. The conversation touches on the longing for God that exists beneath all of our desires. Shalom, everyone. Welcome back. It's our fifth podcast. Professor Shlomo Yital and myself, Elisha Wolfin of Kilat Vahavta here. And we're looking at Parashat Ki Tissa, where we just emerged out of Purim and on to Parashat Ki Tissa, the parasha with the golden calf and a lot of drama. So, Shlomo, let's take it away. Nice to be back, Elisha. I look forward to our meetings every week. Me, too. Me, too. So, you brought all kinds of interesting things, as you always do, all kinds of creative thoughts and ideas. So, the first thought I have, Elisha, is inspired by your drashah. You mentioned a dramatic event that occurs in Parashat Ki Tissa. God tells the people, tells Moshe, that he is going to distance himself from the people after this incredible event on Mount Sinai. And an angel and a cloud will accompany the people, but God will retreat to some extent. And this, of course, creates a tremendous crisis among the people, because God has been with them virtually, physically for this whole journey. All of a sudden, separation. What's going on? And this notion of distance, that God distances himself, we studied this, you and I, together in your classes, and it's even a theological war, you might say, about Tzimtzum. Has God retreated and given us the world to manage as we can, or is God present everywhere and all the time? Do you want to say a few words about this theological conflict, about is God present always, or has God retreated? Wow, yeah, you're right, we did discuss it this year in our class about Tzimtzum. And, yeah, there's so much to say about it, so stop me, do a Tzimtzum for me, stop me when you think it's the right time to stop, because it's one of my favorite topics. I would say one of our human experiences is that God is absent. God is not here. We look around with our open eyes, we look for God, and God is not here. We see horrible things happening to wonderful people, and we're asking, where was God in the Holocaust, where is God here on a daily basis? So many stop believing altogether, some do believe and call it blind faith, some have other great theological, philosophical reasonings. And my basic assumption, based on Kabbalah and Chassidut, and also the Sages, that God did not withdraw, God never withdrew, God cannot withdraw, because all is God, all is God, and God is inherent in everything. I would say even further, not only is God not, not only is He inherent in everything, He is everything, meaning there's nothing but God. All is God. However, as the founder of the Chabad movement, Ba'al HaTanya, pointed out around the whole Tzimtzum issue, is that while God is fully here, fully present, and is nothing but God, in our experience, God contrasted Himself. In our experience, God has disappeared. It's only our subjective experience, our eyes have been opened, and we no longer see God. But it's only our own blindness. So this whole dynamic in this parasha, about God telling Moshe, you know what, I'm withdrawing from the people. I'll send an angel, I'll send a cloud, but I am withdrawing from the people. The way I can read it today, and as a result of our course, that's why I love teaching, because I get to learn, is that God is actually saying, I'm not withdrawing. I recognize that from the human perspective, I have withdrawn. I'm giving you that freedom of choice to think, to believe, to believe, unfortunately, that I have withdrawn. I'll never withdraw. But I understand, this has been your choice. That's perfect, Elisha, and I embrace that wholeheartedly, for the following reason. Many religious people use the expression, Im Yirtzeh Hashem, if God's willing, which kind of is a fatalistic approach. And if we believe that God is at a distance somewhat, it places heavy responsibility on us to fix things. And there's so much that needs fixing in this world, and you have to really, really work hard at it. And if you believe that God is going to do it anyway, it's a little too fatalistic. You and I are very fond of Bette Midler's song. This song, I think, captures a beautiful thought. I'm going to just read some of the words in the song, and maybe our listeners can look up on YouTube the song itself and listen to Bette Midler. It's wonderful. God is watching us, God is watching us, God is watching us from a distance. From a distance, you look like my friend, even though we're at war. From a distance, I just cannot comprehend what all this fighting's for. From a distance, there's harmony, and it echoes through the land. And it's the hope of hopes, it's the love of loves, it's the heart of every man. It's the hope of hopes, the love of loves. This is the song for every man. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's only for technical reasons that we didn't bring up the YouTube itself. We were fortunate enough to hear it from your own voice, not from Bette Midler's voice. And maybe that's a metaphor for God disappearing, so we couldn't have Bette Midler, so we have our own reading here. Yeah, it's a beautiful song. But as much as I love the song, I still want to insist that the song talks of our own experience. It says nothing about God. God is not distant. God is not watching from a distance. God is within everything. God is everything. And in our experience, we're lonely. I mean, take loneliness. Loneliness, very often, people who can be surrounded by family and friends, nevertheless feel lonely. Or people who are right now physically alone and don't feel lonely at all. They feel very connected, and they feel connected to loved ones, and they don't feel abandoned. So, lonely, alone, abandoned, it's all in our experience. I don't want to belittle this experience because there are people who are really suffering. But in my humble opinion, the answer to suffering is really knowing, knowing, understanding that God cannot distance God's self. It's just not a possibility. And Elisha, I write a column for a magazine, as I mentioned previously in the podcast, and my latest column is called Teens in Trouble. And it's about a paradox. Our teens in Israel, and teens in America, and teens all over the world, they are in constant, non-stop, day and night contact with one another through social media. And yet, Elisha, and yet, they are alone. And it's a terrible crisis. They are depressed, they are suicidal, and you've got to blame the social media. They are not connecting us. They are doing the opposite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It goes back to what we were talking about here. If we're saying that God is fully present, 100% present, but in our experience God is not, then social media might even intensify this, kind of providing us a platform for closeness, but in our experience, when we go into Facebook, which I don't, I'm a stranger to Facebook, I have to say. I do have a Facebook account, but it's really not active, I just don't know what to do with Facebook. But in the few times that I'm directed to Facebook, I open it, and I immediately have this gut feeling of emptiness. Which is very, very odd and very strange, and I had a lot of conversations about it. And many people told me that Facebook has increased depression in the world. How so? Because we go to Facebook, we read about amazing stories that people tell of themselves on Facebook, and we look at our own lives. Our lives suck. We don't have these amazing stories to tell. And the truth is, neither do those people. But all we get, we don't hear about their loneliness, we only get to hear about their fun things, their children, their grandchildren, their wonderful visit to a restaurant, to Disneyland. That's all we get to hear, so we mistakenly think that that's all they do. Elisha, that's backed up by research. So, many psychologists have done research into teens and the teen mental crisis, and it's related to this strange thing. They see other teens on the social media, and they all seem to be doing better than they are, and they're more beautiful, and they're slimmer, and they're athletic, and they compare themselves to this unreal thing, and they are depressed. It's impossible. I want to make a little plug here. Well, not an advertisement, but a plug for an idea. The notion of living in comparison, which we all do all the time. We compare ourselves all the time. It's the nature of the human mind to compare. Because when we see the Joneses across the street, then we can tell if we're doing OK or not doing OK, and whether we should shape up, or take another job, or buy a nicer house. So, it serves a role. But the notion of comparing oneself is the distancing of God. Because if God is present, 100% present, then I am totally OK just the way I am. There's nothing to compare, because we're all Godly. There's no inequality in Godliness. But it's when God is not present in our psychology, in our theology, in our lives, that's what's left. What's left is, how beautiful is my house, my car, my appearance, etc. So, it's not a coincidence that social media, instead of bringing people closer, and I'm not saying it hasn't done that. I'm sure it does that too. But it creates more loneliness and depression than love and intimacy. Exactly. In your drashah, Elisha, you make a lovely point. I'm going to read this wonderful sentence. You note that underneath all of our desires, the desire for money, security, love, visibility, not necessarily in this order, there is a longing for God. And I've encountered this, Elisha. We often compare notes, because my world is the world of innovation and entrepreneurship. Yours is the world of Torah. And there is overlap. And in my world, I work with really, really clever engineers and scientists. And they work very hard. And many of them are, frankly, not huge fans of God. And they don't entirely acknowledge the presence of God, or even the existence of God, sometimes. And part of the reason is that they themselves are trying to do amazing things, which is, in a sense, God-like. But Elisha, you're absolutely right. No matter what we do, even among them, there is a longing for God. And here's the reason. I try to understand the motivation of people who work so hard. I work with a person who is approaching 70 years old. And he is traveling economy class to save money, going to Japan, working 24-7. And why? Why are you doing this? And the answer is to create value, to change the world, to create meaning, which is romantic and dramatic and powerful. And it is a search for God, in a sense, because it is an act of creation. When these people invent amazing things that change the world, they are joining God in the act of creation. And as you explained to us, the act of creation didn't end with Breshit, with creating the world. The world is recreating itself all the time, and here we are doing it, and we are in partnership with God. So these amazing innovators, they are searching for God in their own way, as they search for meaning, real meaning. Yeah, yeah. And you know, often when we say God works in mysterious ways, God operates in mysterious ways, I think that God is working through us. And very often we think we're doing what we're doing, it's us that's doing it. It seems like it's us that is doing it, but it's not really us doing it. It's God doing it through us. Sorry, we just got interrupted for a moment. Someone brought some cake and cookies, and she didn't know. She brought it in. This was God working through her, interrupting our podcast in the middle, bringing sweetness to our lives. So, thank you. But back to our... Well, we're still back in our topic. Well, I'd like to introduce you to our topic. What I'd like to suggest is that our ego is telling us that I did it. And in the book of Deuteronomy, it's actually very prevalent there. My strength has done this. I did this, and I did that. I discovered this, and I was in the Technion, and I, you know, created this, that, or the other. And God is suggesting, the God that I believe in, is working through us. And the pursuit of meaning, the pursuit of goodness, the pursuit of value, the pursuit of... It's all God's work in the world. We are the vehicles, the vessels through which God is doing God's work. And you know, Elisha, even that ego, that egoism, even that denial of God is godly. And I'll explain. When you do something amazing, and create an innovation that is radical and new, people don't like it, people don't want it, never heard of it, like this thing, like the smart phone, you need to really believe in yourself and what you're doing. You need to have this powerful ego. But even that powerful ego, looking inward and not seeing God, but seeing yourself, even that is godly. Because that creates divine things. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The way the ego works is godly, yes. And that's what I think this parasha is all about. When the children of Israel, they want God so badly, but they don't see God, so they turn to Aaron. Aaron created God for us. We want God, we definitely need God, but we don't know how to do it. So we're turning to you, Aaron, the human being who created God for us. And Aaron, in his ingenuity, created a golden calf. And the people are satisfied for a little bit, and that's the one little piece that Moshe failed to fully understand. And Aaron was the one who really understood that what people wanted was God. And he provided a golden calf through which they can experience God. So same thing here, when a scientist is spending time with his dad, needing to crack a riddle, something like a scientific hurdle on the way to a great discovery, he's taking it very personally. Very personally, i.e. ego. But the way he's taking it personally, that's the way God works in the world. So yes, the ego is an amazing divine trick. You know, I have a friend who unfortunately passed away not long ago, who spent 15 years, Alicia, working on an idea, and the idea was to dissolve brain tumors that were inoperable, deep inside the brain, without a scalpel, using a beam of ultrasound guided by an MRI. 15 years. Now, my friend was a real egotist. Sometimes, I must say, he was obnoxious. But Alicia, this is a godly device. His method dissolves glioblastoma brain tumors inside brains that no surgeon could otherwise get to. I see that as absolutely divine, and man, you have to have a pretty strong ego to work 15 years on a nearly impossible idea. Yes, it's an amazing comment and a great, great example that the biggest egos... And I know we have a problem with people with huge egos. We often don't like them. They often rub us the wrong way, and it sounds like ego is the opposite of God, but as you're saying, it's true. If we're saying that our bodies are the vehicles through which God works, then it's our egos as the vehicle through which God invents, explores, and advances humanity. Exactly. Changing direction a little bit, another passage in your drashah inspired some thinking. I actually wrote a blog about this. The concept of awe, the emotion of awe. Here we are. We're at Mount Sinai. The children of Israel are gathered around lightning and thunder. They see the words of God. They are filled with awe, and the word awe appears for the first time in this parashah in Kittisa, and the Lord responded, Look, I'm making a covenant, a brit with the people. I will perform wonders in the presence of all your people, God does that every day, that have never been done in all the earth or in any nation. All the people you live among will see the Lord's work, for what I am doing with you is awe-inspiring in Hebrew, norah. Norah in everyday Hebrew is awful or terrible, but it really means awe-inspiring, and there's work now by psychologists about this neglected emotion of awe. And awe means encountering something amazing, huge, beyond ourselves, stirring, something we don't fully understand or grasp, and it fills us with wonder, which is essentially acknowledging the beauty of this world that God has created. And this emotion of awe that the children of Israel are experiencing, it's therapeutic. It's therapeutic because when we look inside ourselves, I've got to say this about psychologists, I'm married to a psychologist and she has helped thousands of people, but she agrees with me. Psychologists in some ways have done damage to the world by telling people to look inward at themselves. When you look inside yourself, you see only yourself using psychotherapy or psychoanalysis. But truly when you experience awe, when I see the results of evolution, flowers and a human body, an amazing human body, it's a product of evolution. Evolution was created by God. It's an unbelievable system. It fills you with awe. And when you see that, Elisha, you look beyond yourself and your own silly little problems. And that's proven. It's proven to be absolutely therapeutic. Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful. It's really beautiful. And, you know, one of the parashat that we see at it, in parashat Vayera, it's the second parasha of Abraham, first of Lech Lecha then Vayera, and it's really interesting how the parasha is full of looking, lirot. It's basically, it's all about when you look, what do you see when you look? Do you see yourself? When you're looking inside, do you see yourself? Do you see your problems? Do you see your parents' mishandling of you as a kid? Is that what you're seeing when you look? And the whole parasha of parashat Vayera is story after story about mostly Abraham, but not only Abraham, Hagal as well, Sarah, Yitzchak, they all saw God when they were looking outside or inside. You know, when Abraham is looking, sitting outside his tent, and he sees three, well, what does he see? Three what? Three angels, three divine beings, three human beings? It's not really clear. What is he seeing when he's looking? Hagal, when she wanders off with her son Yishmael in the desert and there's no water, and the angel comes to her and says like, Hagal, look! And she looks up and she sees a well. Was it not there before? And suddenly she sees life-sustaining water where there wasn't any a moment ago. It's all about what do we see when we look? We know today, not just today, we've always known that, that it's not our eyes that see, it's the brain that sees. So, awe is all about, in Hebrew, yira'ah, from lirot, how do we see? It's basically how, it's not what do our eyes see, so what does your brain see when you look out into the world? Or what does your brain see when you look into yourself? Can you see the divine? Can you see God? Can you see the miracle? Can you see, when you go to the toilet, you know, and you do what you do in the toilet, and you walk out and you're supposed to say thank you for this miraculous body, are you, did you see the miracle? Pouring out of your body, that's a miracle! I love that, that's beautiful, yeah. I have a small story about awe, and I experienced it just the other day in a strange place. So, we have 8 o'clock news on channel 11, and Alicia, it is horrible, especially these days. It is terrible, and they seem to look for terrible stories beyond the conflict that we're having now. But my wife and I feel we have to watch it, because we have to know what's going on. And in this terrible TV news, I've had an experience of awe, and something called moral beauty. The psychologists say that you experience awe sometimes, not just when you see beautiful nature, but when you see beautiful people. And they call this moral beauty. And I saw this strangely on channel 11 and television. A little girl who was born with a genetic disease called Rett, R-E-T-T. It's a syndrome, a neurodevelopmental disorder, characterized by a typical lack of development, loss of use of the hands and the legs, slow brain growth problems. It's a disease of the devil. And her family gathered together, brothers and sisters, mom and dad, aunts and uncles gathered together to support this little girl. They built a therapeutic pool. They showed her in the pool. She can actually walk in the pool because of the buoyancy of water. And she was smiling and happy. They were banded together to help this little girl whose life expectancy is not long, to make her happy in every possible way. I found that to be awe-inspiring and an example of moral beauty. But Elisha, you have to kind of look for it. You see what you look for. If you don't look for it, you don't find it. Right, right. Or we need to be educated as to what to look for. When they look at their daughter slash sister, if what they saw was a dysfunctional body, then there's no awe there, even though there's awe even there. But let's say, let's take it to a black and white kind of situation. So if you just see a dysfunctional body, then you might even ask, you know, God, this is not fair. Why do you do this to her? It's not her fault. She did nothing wrong, etc., etc. But if we are able to see the life force, if we're able to see a joyful girl, if we're able to see, here's a living being, a divinely living being, then suddenly it's all about increasing her joy, increasing her comfort and her love of life. So I have a question, Elisha, a dilemma. There's a wonderful play by Voltaire, Candide, and he makes great fun of optimists, Dr. Pangloss. Dr. Pangloss in Candide insists, despite terrible things that happen, all is for the best in this the best of all possible worlds. Personally, I'm an optimist and try to see the bright side, but sometimes it's a little bit naive. How do we balance this realism, seeing the world as it is, but at the same time seeing God's work and seeing the good, even in things like this terrible R.E.T.T. genetic disease that tortures this poor little girl. How do we find a balance in seeing God everywhere and being realistic? Yeah, yeah. That's such a beautiful question and dilemma, and we can talk about this for days and days and days. I'll also share a little story that kind of maybe answers this question. Quite a few years ago, about over 20 years ago, it was during the Second Intifada, so it was over 20 years ago, a guy had a group, a group that came from the United States, they used to be a tour guide, and they, in their request, as we were preparing for their trip, they wanted to go to the Old City and meet in Jerusalem and meet with all the sides of the conflict and really understand what is this all about. It was a very progressive group, it was a wonderful, wonderful group. So I contacted a friend who actually used to be a chanich of mine many years ago at the Haifa University when I was working there. And he lives there, he's religious and he lives there, and he and I asked him if he could arrange something for us, because he's very much into the dialogue between religious groups. And he said, yes, of course. It was an amazing day. Imagine being in the middle of the Intifada in the Old City of Jerusalem. A group of families, children, adults, we went to meet with At-Teret Kohanim, one of the most extreme right-wing groups. I think today there are even more extreme groups. At the time they were the most extreme, I think. And they gave us their ideology. From there we went to a mosque and met with a Muslim clergy who told us all about their view of the conflict. And then we ended with a group of nuns in a convent. All in the Old City. It was an exhausting day. It was a thrilling and exhausting day. At the end of the day we had a final session with this guy. And one of the participants asked him, she said, you live here, you see this every day. How do you handle all this tension, this conflict? How do you not give up? And he said the following. He said, every morning, when I wake up in the morning, I, figuratively speaking, my hands go looking for my glasses. He called them Mashiach glasses. Now we don't have to call them Mashiach glasses because we might not like this term too much. But, you know, optimism glasses. And he said, I don't open my eyes until I feel I have these glasses in my hand. Put them on my eyes, ears, and nose kind of thing. Put them on and only then do I open my eyes. And he said, it's a choice I make every morning to look at the world through the eyes of Mashiach. Or through the eyes of redemption. Through the eyes of hope. Through the eyes of through God's eyes. It's a choice I make every single day. And it's not easy. And it's not something we've been educated towards. We don't educate towards that. And it's something we can educate towards that. So let me try to put that into practice. Elisha, as we conclude our podcast, our conversation, the next Parsha is Vayakhel. And Vayakhel means Tehillah, means to gather together the people. This is a crucial week for Israel. We have this terrible internal conflict. Let's hopefully, hopefully wish that during this week, before Parsha Vayakhel, during Parsha Vayakhel, that we will find a way to come together. Amen. Amen. Amen. Yeah, just look for the right glasses. So thank you all for listening, for joining in. And we'll see you again God willing, next week. Have a great Shabbat. And Shlomo, thank you so much. My pleasure. See you next week, Elisha.
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