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Talk: 19960706-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-vipassana_retreat_part_6_of_8-43310 Start_time: 00:47:59 Display_question: Can I use a mental note with the breath in meditation? Keyword_search: breathing, breath, fear, mental note, note, conscious, soothing, unified, field, choiceless awareness, heavy, thought, mantra, bliss, subconscious, unconscious, joy, peace, root, concentrated, angry, retreat, daily life, Harvard Question_content: Larry: Let me describe the two uses of the breath that are being described here, and then we'll come to the labeling. Mainly what we've been doing is just attending to the breath in an exclusive way. That's straightforward and I'm sure you all understand that. But now we're open to the full field of our experience. Break_line: Now, what's the point of the breath? Why do we need…? Now, you could attend to the breath as part of your experience, which we've been doing. But now, you're sitting in a state of receptivity, and so let's say fear comes up. You're lightly in touch with the breath. That helps you stay in touch with fear. The main thing would be to be mindful of the fear, if it's a strong object. So you turn to the fear. Break_line: Now, you brought in the issue, in some Vipassana school, really one Vipassana school, mental notes are used. So you would say “fear, fear, fear.” Right? That's what you're getting at. And that can help you stay with the actual energy of fear. That's really what's important. That's what will free you of fear. You can say “fear, fear, fear” for the rest of your life, and it's going to be very limited. The key thing is you have to become intimate with your own fear. You have to see deeply into it and to see that there's nothing to be afraid of, not as an idea. The energy just decomposes, it falls away. So, the breath can help you do that. Break_line: And at the beginning, what people report is it feels as if the breath is in the background. See, because if you're in touch with the breath, you're doing less thinking. The problem is thinking comes in, “Oh my God, fear. This will never go away. Bah, bah, bah, bah.” And then it escalates, proliferates, and then you're in big trouble. Questioner: <inaudible> Larry: It doesn't matter. Plug in whatever you want. Questioner: Okay, good. Larry: Okay. So, the conscious breathing helps you stay with whatever that is—whether it's fear, it doesn't really matter. What I'm saying applies to everything. Not only frightening things or negative things, anything. So that when you're “Breathing in, I'm aware of x. Breathing out, I'm aware of x.” Anything. Break_line: So, at the beginning, many people will experience the breath as sort of in the background but being helpful. It's kind of soothing, it kind of helps you. First of all, it cuts down a lot of unnecessary thinking. But as the practice develops, I don't experience it that way. For me, it's a unified field, because you're always breathing. So the conscious breathing is amidst everything else. It kind of blends in. And a lot of the time I'm doing the same thing you are. I'm doing choiceless awareness now too. And whatever is there, I'm with and there's the conscious breathing in the midst of it all. It's just a unified field. But you can't force that to happen. That grows out of use. Your question is, can I use a mental note? Now, my own suggestion would be either use a mental note or the breathing. I wouldn't use both. Your mind will be too busy. It's okay with me if you know how to do it. Is that clear or is it? Questioner: It’s clear. Larry: But? There's a but in there. Questioner: My buts are what if some of these thoughts are thoughts like baby thoughts, like she was saying, “Oh my seat isn’t there” or your “your yogurt.” It seems like with baby thoughts you still bother with them sometimes? Larry: No, you don't bother with. Okay. I haven't told you, dotted every I and every T because I want you to find out from your own experience. But as you sit and breathe, sometimes things will come through and they're extremely vivid. They'll arrest your attention. Certainly, we know if the body is in pain, there's no question what the strongest object in town is. It's that one. So, you're with that. Break_line: At other times there's sort of, things just going through the mind, you barely “bah bah bah bah bah bah bah.” You know, just going through the mind. It's a little bit like this. Let's say you live in a small town, and you know most people and you walk by and just a little nod. They walk by, and suddenly there's a new person in town. “Mm!” Something like that. So, there's no way you're supposed to be, but actually let your natural inclination. So that sometimes something will you'll be with something maybe for the whole sitting, because it's so prominent and so powerful it arrests it has your attention. At other times there's a lot of just stuff floating in and out. I'm not trying to legislate how it's supposed to be. That's the whole point is to let go of all notions about how life is supposed to be and let life take care of that. Does that help a bit? Questioner: Yeah. Larry: There's another but in there. Go ahead. Questioner: Refers to what I’ve been doing then, with the mantra… Larry: How so? Questioner: Because, I don't know. Because I seem to have this sort of, my main thing is I get to daydreaming, which is not clear. Larry: It's not meditation. It's daydreaming. Questioner: Yeah. I'd like to get clearer. But I come often to the mantra or to the breath then, and that's very nice. But my thoughts are really, I don't seem to have these heavy thoughts while I'm sitting. You know, so. Larry: I'm sorry, I'm hard. You see, the mantra is similar to the breath as an exclusive object. But how is that giving you the opportunity to get to know the full range of experience in your mind? Questioner: Because before I took this, Friday night when I came here, I was sort of fearful. And I did the mind, which naturally sort of closed my breath and I noticed my fear while I was staying in it, it was still next to me and with me, but dissipated. Larry: Yeah. So, you were observing the fear. Questioner: Exactly. Larry: Okay, I don't care what brand name you put on the practice, that's what we're learning how to do. But typically, that isn't the point of mantra. In mantra you're supposed to become absorbed in the mantra. So, it's very much like the breathing. So that, and you get very concentrated, you get a lot of energy, some joy, some bliss, some peace, all kinds of nice things. And that's good too, that's valuable. The breath does the very same thing, exclusive attention to the breath. But you're not getting experience. You're not going to root out certain things, because you're not going to get to know them. So that you'll have all this peace and joy, but it'll be superimposed upon, in modern terms, your unconscious or your subconscious stuff. Questioner: Are there any people, though, that more things, like in your daily life, that when you're sitting it’s sort of what I'm saying? Larry: Try that one again, please. Questioner: I’m sorry. Larry: No, let's just try it again. Questioner: I'm not saying I'm gone far with anything, but major revelations and big fears or angers don't seem to come up. It's just little baby garbage usually that’s come up through my sitting. And yet, in life certainly I get really angry or really this or that. I then use these techniques then. But is that typical or do most people when they're sitting have heavy things come up? Larry: There’s no typical. When you sit on, let's say you go on a long retreat, I mean months. Okay. I've done that many times. I'm not trying to brag; I'm just trying to answer your question. Certain things come up when you're quiet for that long that would never come up in your daily life, because we're being absorbed by activities. “Hi.” “Do this.” “Go there.” “Oh, yeah.” “Right?” “Okay, thanks.” So, certain things come up, and your mind is very, very calm and very, very concentrated, and you're in an atmosphere with support and teachers and so forth, and so they're helping. It's an invitation for a lot of your stuff comes up. So no, no, wait, we're not done yet. Questioner: <inaudible> Larry: Maybe. Don't get ahead of it. Let's see where this goes. Let's find out if what I say is what you thought I was going to say. Questioner: Okay. Larry: Okay. No, I'm not insulted. It's moving with life as it happens. So when you're doing a long retreat like that, it's an invitation for certain things that are dormant or latent to come out. And some of the things that have come out for me personally have been amazing. And the whole setup is for that. So the first time I did a long one, right. You assume, like, after the retreat's over, you feel like Mr. Clean: nothing can bother you. And all it takes is 20 minutes in Harvard Square, someone cuts you off or gets in front of you somewhere or elbows you, and suddenly this stuff starts coming out that didn't come out on the retreat. So I wouldn't set it up. See, that wasn't what you were thinking, was it? Break_line: Here's what I'm trying to say. No, here's what I'm trying to say. Don't set up a model of how it's supposed to be. That is: retreats get at this, daily life gets at that. It won't work. Life is much more powerful than any of our schemes, including Buddhist schemes and maps and models and so forth. Whatever comes up is what comes up. And so if something very rich comes up on a retreat, wonderful, you work with that. If the retreat is all bliss for three months, great. If in five minutes, you have the fear of the deepest fear of your life while waiting on the line somewhere in the supermarket, that's where it came up. So you have to you work with it there. If you set up a model of how everything is going to be, that's, by and large, that's the mind seeking security. It's still trying to figure out, it wants to control things. Good luck. But we've been doing that already. And if it works, then you wouldn't need to be here. Is that what you were thinking? Questioner: No. Larry: Good. Okay. I just wanted to be right. Okay. By the way, let me ask what you want to, but to me personally, it's very important that I have some sense of you understanding these second set of instructions. And any snafus that have come up, please don't be shy, because if you don't tell me, how will I know? Okay, go ahead. End_time: 00:58:09
