A & A Speaks 4

This is a conversation between two people discussing astral projection. They define astral projection as an intentional out-of-body experience where consciousness can function separately from the physical body and travel throughout the astral plane. They also mention that the astral plane and the physical plane overlap. They share their first experiences with astral projection and discuss the fear and safety concerns associated with it. They mention resources and sources of information on astral projection, including a YouTuber and a book. They also touch on the belief that someone can take over your body while astral projecting and share their thoughts on the matter. You can't tell. Okay, I'm going to start my recording because I'm not having computer problems, unlike some people around here. Okay, let's go ahead and get started. So I am Adfeng. And I am AK Lady. And this is ANA Speaks. Welcome to ANA Speaks. We'll get the intro down at some point. It'll take us, you know, six months and then we'll, it'll be like butter. So. Right. Exactly. This will be episode four. And this week's topic of discussion will be on astral projection. I would assume that this is going to be the first in a series of astral projection and PSI type series. So we'll see how it works out. Yes. So we'll start at what I would say the beginning is, and that is just how we project and our first experiences with astral projection. We might touch on half AP, but we'll just kind of naturally talk about it and go from there since none of this is scripted or else it'd be a lot easier. So AK. What the hell is a script? Exactly. Yeah. Welcome to our sponsor. If you were a sponsor, you would be here. So anyways, AK, what was your very first astral projection that you can remember? I know it's been a long time, but you know. Great question. First, I think that we should cover what exactly astral projection is. That's a good point because we're putting the cart, I'm putting the cart before the horse. Yeah. So according to Wikipedia, astral projection, which is also or more commonly known as astral travel, soul journey, soul wandering, spiritual journey, or spiritual travel. It is a term that is used in esotericism to describe the intentional out of body experience that assumes the existence of a subtle body known as the astral body or body of light through which consciousness can function separately from the physical body and travel throughout the astral plane. To everybody on the same page, does that feel like that's an accurate description for you? Yes. Let me look over that again. Yeah, it's saying that, and of course, information may be or may not be 100% correct. It says that the term astral projection was coined and promoted in the 19th century by theosophists. Yeah, so I guess from the pure standpoint of what it's saying and through all the community editing, I would agree with the statement. I think something that is possibly missed is that the astral plane and the physical plane kind of overlap. They're kind of, you know, astral is separate, but it's also on top of, you know. I would refer to what some people call the etheric plane, a nonphysical representation of the physical world, and that's still in the same vein of the astral plane. The astral plane kind of houses all of these different planes of existence together. Do you have your map? You know, what I'll do is I'll post that map that I made kind of describing each, how I visualize through my experiences the different planes, including lucid dreaming, mindscapes, different projections. It'll take me a little bit to find it, but I'll post it and people will be able to look at it. Oh, yep, I found it. It was that quick. Beautiful. So, the Merriam-Webster dictionary states that astral projection is a noun, and its definition is simply the ability of a person's spirit to travel to distant places. Yeah. Right. So, even within the understanding of the astral, there are lots of different aspects to it and approaches as well. With some of you that are new here, some of you that have been with us for a while know that there are a couple of YouTubers that I think are very helpful and beneficial resources. The Astral Doorway is one of them, and he has a whole series, Gene does, and he's actually got a self-published book out, which you can pick up on Welcome Firebrand on Amazon right now, and you can even listen to it on Audible. So, if you want the combination of understanding from a Gnostic way of teaching or understanding, that may be a really good resource for you and a great rabbit hole to kind of delve into. So, on that, I will go back to Ed Fang's question. What was your question, sir? My question was, what was your first experience with astral projection? I probably experienced my first AP, again, like my preteen years would be the first time, and I really missed that. I wasn't quite, I would say at that point, it was like a lucid dream state, or that was my understanding of it, and I knew that my body was at rest, and yet I was outside of the house at the same time, so that took a little bit of processing, and of course, this was back in the day before the internet, and there's not a whole lot of books like that in your local library, so it was just kind of one of those things that kind of got chucked away into. Weird, cool, one-off, definitely a one-off, and then periods throughout my life, I would have these experiences off and on again, until recently, where for the last two and a half years, I've really been doubling down with it. For me, there's a component, a strong component, that goes along with the trance work, trance mediumship, as well as sound waves, and utilizing a lot of the Focus 21 system from the Monroe Institute, so that's kind of me. What about you, Anthony? My very first, I'll call it out-of-body experience, was whenever I was much younger, I was probably five or six, because I remember I was in my, sleeping in my parents' bed, and it was middle of the night, and I remember feeling like I was kind of floating, and I remember kind of looking down and seeing my body and my parents there, and I thought, well, this is kind of strange, and I just kind of like fell back down slowly, back to my body, and then kind of just woke up. That was probably my very first out-of-body experience, and I would not understand what that was for quite a few years. And then did you actively seek to continue having that type of experience, or did you just kind of relegate it into the realm of, you know, that's weird, not a big deal, not going to focus on it? How did you process that? Yeah, so at the time, I really didn't think much of it, because, I mean, I was a kid, and pretty much anything that grabbed my attention did. It wasn't until a few years later, whenever I was like, hey, I can, you know, do something with the wind, I want to explore this, and a few years after that, realizing, you know, there's a whole bunch more than just, you know, psychokinesis. There are so many other things that I'm just not aware of, and it was probably, I would also say preteen years, whenever I started, you know, looking more into what astral projection was. Yeah, so that's when your kind of interest was piqued, and you started along the path that led you to where you are now. Correct. Okay. I'm going to ask a random thought question here. Did you ever feel, because I know that there's a lot of back and forth for people tied to that kind of afraid aspect, fear-based response to the sensations that we get when we're actually physically practicing astral projection. Did you ever feel untethered? And I'm sure you know what I mean when I use that particular phrase. Yeah, I didn't really have that sense of fear or worry that I would be leaving forever and never going to be able to come back. Throughout the things and resources that I had, many of them had this belief that we are somehow like, we have like a silver tether running from our physical body to our astral body, and there are some people who were saying, well, if someone moves you while you're astral projecting, you'll never be able to find your way back to your body. I have been moved or touched or shifted while I've astral projected and I'm still here, so that isn't true. At least for me, I mean, maybe someone else is different and they probably didn't live to tell the tale. Ha, a little bit of dark humor there. But yeah, I've never had a fear that whenever I'm projecting, I'm unsafe or not able to come back to where I am. Okay, good. Thank you for that clarification, because I'm in that boat with you. I have never had that kind of concern, and so I was trying to understand if it is more of a modern type perspective or thought process, of course, spurred on from, you know, some recent horror films, which definitely, you know, caused a lot about that. And I wonder if, in your opinion, I'll share mine gladly if you want, that perhaps there is a sense of someone from the outside wanting to limit or control that aspect, you know, by saying that it's an unsafe practice or, you know, bad things can happen to you, things can take over your body, this kind of thing. Because, you know, kind of Eastern philosophies, religions that practice more of this type of stuff don't seem to have the same connotations as we do. I would say, if we look at maybe Christians in particular, me being one of them, there is this fear that if we do something like this, that we're leaving ourselves vulnerable for the devil to come in, or some other texts may suggest that, well, whenever you leave your body, that you're leaving yourself open and vulnerable. But it also could be, like you said, horror movies. There are quite a few that I can think of that it shows people in an astral-projected state or some type of state where they're having an out-of-body experience, and then a demon or something tries to get in. And it just feeds that underlying fear. I mean, a lot of what we see in fantasy or fiction is based on real-life things that can happen, so astral projection. Grace has asked if, or what stops an astral projector from popping into someone else's body and taking over. Well, whenever this person stated, I was talking about before, this kind of silver tether that they visualize that connects you to your own body, I don't visualize it that way. But our bodies and minds are more resilient than you think on their own. And even though this, whenever we project, we are projecting, it is a projection of ourselves. We are not, like our soul is not leaving our body. Some people may say it is, it depends on how you view things. But our being itself remains here, tied to the physical plane, and our astral body can come back at any point in time. A person who is astral projecting, it would be an interesting thought experience to see if an astral projector could take over someone else's body that is willing and is astral projecting at the same time. But there are so many layers to that and so many complications that I'm going to say it's 99.99% not possible for you to take over someone's other body. It's such a, it's kind of a more advanced topic to start discussing about the ins and outs of why that can't happen. But just know that you won't have a Freaky Friday situation where two people project and then they swap bodies, you know, basically. Right, and I think that, and this is my perspective, my personal experience, my understanding. We have a tendency to view everything like our body, our meat suit, is the be-all end-all and everything else is just kind of smooshed down inside of it. To me, that is a very backward, egocentric view of not only yourself, of your being, that it completely limits your own perspective on how to view yourself. So, we should be looking from the outside in, in my opinion, and even if you really kind of get into the finite detail of someone who is being possessed, whether you want to call it a demon, want to call it an entity, whatever, it takes work. It is not accidental. So, there are definitely many layers and many levels, and it starts with kind of the depression and then the oppression and then finally the possession. I have worked with people who do have attachments, entities that are not necessarily positive, but they have to be invited in. It's a long, long process. So, for somebody just to pop into somebody else's body, first of all, what are you doing with their consciousness, right? There are a lot of steps, and I'm going to agree with Adfeng here that this is a little more advanced subject matter than just what is and how to achieve astral projection. You had mentioned something that I wanted to touch on. Oh, yes. So, people think of possession in the whole sense of someone just – someone or something hopping into someone's body and taking over. But possession can happen on a very minute level, kind of like where you were touching on where people get these attachments. It can be some type of simple telepathic suggestion to do one specific thing, and it's this thing that keeps on saying, I want you to do this over and over and over again until it makes you do that thing, or rather, you give in to doing that thing. Then it can become a slippery slope into where it becomes more like a possession. So, to answer your question, Grace, no, someone can't just hop into your body, or you can't just hop into someone else's body. Even if consent is given on both ends, that in and of itself would be a much more in-depth thing to discuss later on when we're talking about more advanced topics, and we're going to keep this on a more basic level for now. Excellent. Thank you. Yep. Agreed. And because astral projection is an aspect of our consciousness, so it's how we perceive things. And so, if you're moving, the question is, where does the person's consciousness then go, right? So, we'll move forward from that. What is the next? Actually, I do have a question that, since we have Mr. Mage in the audience, he did ask us in our questions channel, specifically to Adfang, I would take it as both of us, though, have you read and what did you think about Robert Bruce's astral dynamics? So, to be honest, I have not read through the whole book. I've read about five pages. But from what I've read so far, I agree with the things that I have said so far on the podcast, I think will be similar to what is in the book, and I think that's mainly because of the people that I worked with, coming up with, I mean, Mr. Mage himself, Mr. Mage himself, and others, I think we share similar ideals. But I promise I will read the book, and we will discuss this on a future podcast. Yeah, for sure. I definitely plan on reading it as well. It's, so far, it appears to be a little more heavy, or from a clinical or academia standpoint, so it's like reading a scientific journal. So, you know, it'll be slow going. Yeah, we could definitely look into doing a book club. If we want to do like a chapter a week or something like that, or however we want to set it up, that's definitely something that we can put into suggestions and look into going over that. Maybe a chapter a week is a little too slow. It's 185 pages, I think, so maybe two chapters a week. It just depends on the pace everyone wants to go through. I could probably finish reading it if I had, you know, three or four hours of dedicated, non-distracted, by lifetime, but that's just not possible now. So, I want to ask you, Adfang, this is a question posed by our wonderful Ruby, and we kind of touched on it at first. What was your first successful AP? Okay, so we're talking about very first successful ability to project, not like just that it happened. Right, I think we're, yeah, not spontaneous, and like you were working at it. What would you consider your first successful AP? I don't know when. It was definitely way in the past, but my very first projection was using the rollout method to kind of get my astral body outside of my physical body, and then after that, I kind of stood up, walked around and noticed the differences in the room, in my house, looked outside, and it was definitely wrong. You know, it was familiar, but things were different. I remember seeing more doors than existed in my house, because I lived in a fairly small house, and, you know, going from like seven doors to like 20 doors was a little disconcerting, and that pretty much sums up my very first experience. I came back, and I just laid back down onto my physical body, and then got out of it, and I logged it. Gotcha. Okay, excellent. What about you? That's a little, it's a little bit different for me, because I feel like I've been a little late to the party. I have a tendency, or have had a tendency in the past to be more of a spontaneous astral projector, projectioner, and definitely more by location experiences, so um, I would say my first was really kind of, I think when I was like in focus, I had just kind of merged into the Monroe Institute, like focus 10, and yeah, I was, oh, this is really weird. I was in a meditative state, and I was aware that my consciousness had shifted from the experience that I was in in that moment to a secondary experience where I was like, why am I seeing the grass outside? Why, why is, why am I paying attention to all of this traffic that's passing by? And that was kind of my aha. I would say my first kind of, it was not intentional. Now I can do it intentionally, of course, but for me, I came at it from a different angle. Yeah, I do want to preface that for my first full projection, it probably took me like two years, but during that time, I was doing half projections, which we've discussed, we haven't discussed on the podcast before, but we've discussed in the server before, and we've had some exercises. So for anyone who is struggling with having a full projection, do not worry, because it took me two years, probably more, I don't really know, I can't, I don't remember that far back at this point. But as far as half projection, or still being able to, what we would say, gain consciousness of our astral body, move it around and do things on the astral plane, while our physical body is still awake. That came much easier and naturally to me. Which makes sense, because I feel that a lot of people, especially in today's age, where we're bombarded with a lot of different things happening, so it's not like we're just focused on one particular task at a moment. So I really feel that that, like you said, it's very useful, and it's a little bit more of a natural state for someone to be able to more easily slip into, because it's, there's, we take some of the fear away if we're not feeling like we have to fully, you know, conceptualize leaving our body. Yeah, you can, the good thing is you can do it at any time. You don't have to, you know, be in a probably tired or sleepy setting. And like Mr. Mage had said, it's probably more useful for you. The problem that I encounter with full projections is I'm, you get into that state between being, your physical body being asleep, but your mental mind and everything being awake, and sometimes it can drift back and forth. So you can be kind of more towards the sleep side, and you might start actually dreaming and not projecting anymore, or you might kind of, you know, come back awake a little bit and come too far out, and then, you know, you're back and awake. But half projecting is this really nice, I don't even want to say middle ground. It's just being able to concentrate and focus on your astral body and the astral plane, or wherever you're projecting to, and do it at any time, and there's no real limitation on it. I agree with that. And yeah, 100% agree with Mr. Mage that partial projection is more useful. Grace does have a question, and I'm going to let you approach it first. Addifying the question that Grace the Mace posed is, how do you change your astral body? I know that it is possible. How could one do that? So Grace has asked me this question in a voice chat before, or in private, I can't remember. And let's, if we look at, sorry, I'm trying to think of a way to phrase what I'm thinking. If we look at what our astral body is, it's kind of a spiritual representation of ourselves. And because of that, we can modify, in a way, how our astral body or our spiritual self looks. How in-depth, I guess, you could, you know, we could go into a full discussion about otherkin, and how people have a belief that they are different types of kin, such as, you know, dragon, fae, all of those. And in those cases, these people see themselves as those things, so their spiritual representation for them are going to look like, you know, the dragon, the fae, an angel, really, whatever, whatever their form is. Really, it's all about perception that you see, and how someone else perceives you. So, for instance, I may see myself kind of just as I am, but non-physically, but other people may see me in a different way. They may see, you know, a tall figure, a short figure, you know, they have something, you know, that's on them, like some type of special clothing. And what others see will be different from your perception. So, that was kind of ambiguous, but also, because it is ambiguous. So, AK, what do you have on the topic? AK A little similar to your train of thought. It definitely, if you're looking at it as a soul projection, you will be able to modify if you think of it like an avatar, right? So, you can tweak certain things. You could view it like a sculptor, basically, kind of changing it or a hologram. If you view your astral form as a holographic projection of who you are and your being, you'll have a lot more success modifying. If you understand your astral form to be more of a representation of your consciousness, i.e. your soul, your core being, you will have the ability to make subtle changes. But if we're looking at it as a spiritual aspect, that is going to, the changes that will be experienced and understood in your astral form will be a representation of your spiritual growth, lack of spiritual growth. So, there can be many ways to kind of shift and change if you're looking for a more permanent change. It's got to come from the growth and healing and understanding. In my perspective, not to say that other people don't have different ideologies, but if you look at it as it's more of a holographic representation, you'll have a little more ease with that. Yeah, and I would also like to say, it's how others view you. It is going to be influenced by how you want them to see you, but at the same time, it is going to be through their perspective. And an example of this is going to be whenever I scan someone, I'm not concerned with how the person looks, unless for some reason it's important. I'm only interested in their energy system, the things around them, what they're doing, things like that. Physical features on an astral form, I tend to not really pay attention to, and that may be a shortcoming of my own, but I'm looking at things more in a data-driven way as opposed to a vanity way. And I'm not saying vanity in a negative connotation. I'm just saying that is my pure focus. I've worked with someone who didn't visualize people at all. What they saw was kind of a glowing orb of the person, and they could discern stuff from that in a similar way that I could. And it's all based on our perception and in others' perceptions on how they're going to see us. So yeah, I think that's also important to keep in mind. I will say, I'll go on to what Mr. Mage had said about his projection success rate for a full projection is about 25%. And I would say mine's probably less, to be honest. There are so many variables coming into to us whenever we actually try to full project because we have real-life sensations. We have sounds in the background, depending on where you are, if you're sleeping with a partner or if you have an animal. I mean, there are so many variables that will affect whether or not you're going to be able to get into that state to be able to have a projection. Which is very valid. Speaking of percentage rate at FANG, let me go back. Before I jump into my next question, Grace did have another question, and their question is, is there a good time to project? If I do it around bedtime, I just fall asleep. So do you have a suggestion or what works for you as far as projection? So I would say for my best chance at having a full projection, I go, and I've talked about this before, possibly on the podcast, I have the best luck setting an alarm for like, let's say I'm waking up at 8. I'll set an alarm, in a very quiet, gentle alarm, for about 3 o'clock in the morning. The goal of this is to not wake up completely, but the goal is to wake me up enough to be aware that I am, you know, still in a super groggy, super tired state, so that then I can continue setting an intention to fully project. That way my body is already in that nice, tired, sleepy mode, but I can get my mind awake to the point where I can actually project. If it's not possible for you to do something like that, for whatever reason, you could try setting some time aside in the middle of the day. I would say during or after lunch, because that will be, your body will be more likely to get into that nice, tired state because of the food you just ate. It's going to be nice and comfortable, and try and do it at that time. That way you're probably not going to be in the full, you know, knockout sleepiness, but you may have a better chance doing it that way. Excellent. Thank you for sharing that. So, A.K., what would you say some of the things you do on the astral plane, or whenever you're projecting? Let's branch into kind of, you know, we have this, we know what the astral plane and astral projection, or actually this may be a better topic. We can discuss what we interpret the astral plane of being. So, we've talked about what astral projection is, how we've both experienced it, but how would you describe the astral plane? That's a really good question. It depends on what level of the astral that I'm in. Let's just say that you're working with someone, and you're going to project with that person somewhere. You know, how would you describe the astral plane in that situation? We can get into vibration levels, different planes of existence in another discussion, but let's just say astral plane. Right. So, it is a shifted version of our daily, more mundane experience that we're in. So, I'm not sure whether to say the astral is a reflection of our physical or our 3D, or if it's vice versa. If the physical may be a representation or a variation of the astral, right? So, usually there are noticeable, yet very subtle differences. So, depending on the person that I'm working with, approaching it with, and their frequency, my frequency at the time, the most noticeable differences are usually in the light, how you perceive the light around you. So, it can be very much more intense, or the colors may be very muted around you. And, for example, like if I would give you all a beacon, share a tether with you to AP in here now, half AP, you would all experience some very subtle differences to the location that I'm at right now. Right. So, we could see more windows. We could experience the doors shifting or being in a different location. You may notice when you're, whether it's partial AP, full AP, in the space that you're in, you know, some things may be removed. There may be other things that have been replaced. So, it's kind of looking at and being aware of the very subtle differences, we'll say that. And I hope that that kind of covers it and it's not too ambiguous. What about you, Edving? No, you got it very well. So, whenever you talk about, you know, maybe coming to where you are on, you know, the astral version of the physical plane, in my mind, I phrase that as the etheric, which would be that it is the astral plane, but it is a literal spiritual representation of our physical plane. When I think of the astral in general, I literally picture a completely black area except for where there are things that are existing. So, we can see the astral plane as an infinite plane of existence in all directions, kind of like the universe, except the universe isn't infinite, technically. But in all directions, completely infinite blank space, black space. You can stand on it, you know, you can stand on what would be the quote-unquote ground. But throughout the astral, there are many different areas where people may have set up, you know, some type of city, if you want to call it. I call it sanctuaries. Some people, you know, claim specific areas for their own purposes, whatever it may be. And those things stand out. And that's what people may experience when projecting, either half-projection, full-projection, and just taking a look around is something they may experience. They may experience, whenever they astral project, you know, just the physical representation, or the spiritual representation of the physical plane. Neither of those are wrong. They both have different uses. Yeah, it's a consensus reality. And then, you know, as I spoke about before, that we won't delve too much into, like, plane theory of how, you know, we can have multiple planes of existence inside the astral plane. Some of them can overlap. We can technically have planes of existence outside of the astral plane. And then differences between, you know, lucid dreaming, mindscapes, pocket dimensions. All of these things are similar, yet different, and they can be combined. It just depends on how things are made and how things happen to exist. And it's the person's perception, right? Because how you're describing it is much more akin to how I perceive the layers and levels of the astral. Except it's like, if you would put the astral kind of in the center, and then you have your different layers of dimensions and different planes kind of housing, overlapping, and then it kind of spreads out from there. So it just really has to do with the perception of the individual. There is no right or wrong answer, because we're not spending enough time there that we can come back and say, you know what, I'm a definitive astral mapmaker, and this is what it is. Yeah, and the thing with astral projection that's great is when we find a location, we can essentially revisit it and share it with other people via a link or some type of beacon, however you want to phrase it. So that you can get, you know, differing opinions, so it's not just yourself. Mr. Mage said that as a thought, they think the astral is an emergent property of the physical reality, that it's derived from the physical world, but it's not the physical world. So yeah, I agree with you 100%, and that you can go so far away that you're basically imagining, it's all purely imagination. And that there are issues with some communities that focus on it too heavily, and you can delve, this is one of the rabbit holes that I've talked about, where you can just go down a rabbit hole. And his example is you could be astrally pregnant with a moon dragon, whale chimeras, and chimera, my bad, I have an issue pronouncing things sometimes. Especially pistachios. But yeah, you can definitely go down rabbit holes very quickly, and that's why I always recommend having someone, you know, hey can you take a look at this to make sure, you know, this is what I'm seeing. But have them take a look at it if they can, and then see if you get some confirmation, maybe have a second or third person look at it. That way you don't keep delving down into a rabbit hole and get lost. Grace has asked if you can visit afterlifes in the astral, like the Christian heaven, Valhalla, Olympus, or anything like that. Potentially. And like Mr. Mage said, you could visit a Valhalla, not probably the Valhalla, right? So just to expound a little bit further on locations and identities, so I understand yours and Mr. Mage's idea or philosophy about the astral. I will say in my experience, there are actual hard physical locations within this space. So it may be a little bit different. I just want to be cautious so that we're not focusing on, say, a manifestation of, you know, a version of physical reality or a version of an astral. Of course it's all going to be different for the individual. But we have to be careful, conscientious, and kind of aware so that we're not taking a lot of our preconceptions with or go in with, and not to say, and please, I know that Feng and Mr. Mage, that you both are very experienced in these philosophies. And ideas. And I'm glad that you share them, but there's a tendency to, you know, focus on one aspect instead of maybe looking at it in a larger scale with taking personal thoughts, ideas, and perspectives. Away from it, because, like, I know what it feels like to me is like, then we would be getting into, like, some of the ideologies about a holographic, you know, universe and different kind of things. So let's, yeah, I'm just going to stop right there. Because I don't want to get into, like, a matrix kind of thing. And so, which we very well could, because it is based on the individual, right? But we want to look at some of the resources that are out there. And really, if we're going to explore the subject, we definitely want to explore it in a more open and respectful way. Not that, again, I want to clarify that I'm not saying that it's not disrespectful. It's just we have a lot of hot-button topics now. And so I think that it's, like, it's really easy to latch on to, like, a very simplistic idea of, you know, the greater thing. But it all comes down to our perspective, how we perceive it, and personal experiences. So we're coming into gnosis, right? And so it's very subtle, because we want to make sure that we're not – I want to make sure that we're not discrediting someone else or what someone else's experiences may be, even though they're different than mine. Does that make sense? Like, hopefully I clarified. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense. We want to – I and you, I don't think you are, we don't want to say that because we've experienced these things, this is the way it is and it's the way it has to be, and, you know, your experiences, however wild they may be, are unjustified. I don't think we're coming across that way. But just to be clear, you know, we've had our experiences, you're going to have yours, and it's important just to, you know, I would say try and keep that one foot in reality. But still, you can be open to anything and be ready to experience anything that you can. But we have to make sure that we don't go down these, you know, specific rabbit holes where we can get lost because, you know, one thing led to another and, you know, you're basically at a point – our minds are so powerful that we can just start going off on tangents that are just creative in our mind that we're creating. They're not real things that are happening. So whenever I make comments earlier about other kin or, you know, other – or people who think that they are different beings, I'm not saying that I specifically don't believe in that. I'm just saying in my experience and how I perceive things, that's not what I see. But other people, you know, you have your own truths, you have your own perceptions and experiences. Those are real for you, and we come together with our different perspectives, and we kind of, you know, what similarities do we have and what differences. That way we can see things from an outsider perspective, not just ours all the time. Correct. And the more we can kind of come into center, right, where we share similar – everybody shares a similar experience, right? And so then we can start to map outwards in a collective and healthy way so that we're not undermining or totally discrediting someone else's experiences. And I want to be really clear about that because I know in spiritual communities there has a tendency to be this kind of, I'm right and you're wrong, so we're coming back to, you know, some kind of colonialism or egotism where others need to feel that they're superior to others. And I just really like to clarify and make sure that we're not coming off that way because there needs to be a healthy and safe way to explore and share experiences in a way that is beneficial. But also, like, a good healthy dose of skepticism is really important, especially when you're dealing with, you know, these things that we don't really have a lot of. We maybe have some guidelines, but we don't really have a lot of roadmaps, and when it does come down to the individual, it's really important that you feel supported, but also, you know, have awareness. How is your physical health? How is your mental health? Are you in touch with yourself in that moment so that, you know, we don't lose ourselves so much down a rabbit hole or with what could be a detrimental way to move forward? So, thank you for listening to that tangent. Yeah, and Mr. Mage is saying that it comes down to there being a really fine line between imagination and experience with astral, and that it's a proverbial slippery slope, which isn't to say that it's not meaningful or useful or that it isn't real. It just means that it's more or less unprovable, and that communities are getting dogmatic, whether in the direction of the moon, dragon, whale, chimeras, or excessive skepticism that shuts out the possibility of something or other. Beautifully said. Beautifully said. Thank you. I 100% agree with you, and I'll say, as of, I mean, for a long time, probably, you know, after two or three years of practicing energy work, I was very close to the almost having excessive skepticism. And that's a problem that I've dealt with for a long time, and I'm not ashamed to say it because that's – I look at things from a very objective point of view, as close to objective as we can, because nothing is truly objective in what we do. But going through – a little plug here – our rune journey that we're doing, I have experienced so many things in the past six to eight weeks that I would have thought were not possible, but I'm getting – they're happening to me and to others, and we're able to confirm these things that are happening. And it's just mind-blowing, and you're like, well, you know, my bar was here, and now it's, you know, all the way, you know, blown all the way up because of these things that are happening. So, I'm struggling to find that balance between, you know, looking at things from a healthy skeptic point of view versus, oh, my God, I can't believe what just happened, so now, you know, my whole, you know, ceiling is shattered, so where do I go from here? So, it's important to keep those in balance. Correct. And that's kind of where we really do talk a lot about, you know, buddying up or having a partner, someone that can go and explore with you so that you're still tethered, your experiences will be or should be fairly similar. And so, when they start to really separate, you know, we're not talking about the sky I saw was purple and the sky that I saw was hot pink, right? We're not talking about those differences. We're talking about, you know, what – the breadth and the depth of what was noticed or experienced in that time. Yeah, for instance, to delve into, you know, you saw purple, I saw hot pink or green or whatever. What we're looking for is, you know, we come across something, someone, and we both are receiving the same information from scanning it or working with it as the other. The colors, the other aspects, they don't necessarily matter, but what information and what things we're able to perceive from it are what matter. Right. And making sure, like Grace said, if you could end up on the opposite spectrum and doing away with all skepticism and ending up in psychosis. And unfortunately, yes, I mean, spiritual psychosis, psychosis in general is nothing to be laughed at. It is not something to be taken lightly, and that's kind of where it's really important to have a good bead on, you know, where you are spiritually and mentally as well. Because – and even being aware of your ego in a way, so even though we're going outward, we're expanding, we're still going inwards at the same time, so that we have a really strong understanding of kind of which way our pendulum is swinging at the time. Thank you, Mr. Mage. Have a wonderful rest of your afternoon. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mage. I would like to say, you know, Grace bringing up the psychosis and that, I have never experienced something like that. I have never gone so far as to have a complete disconnect with reality, but I will say there are definitely times where I have been, I've gotten involved in something, and in retrospect after going through it, or perhaps during it, realize, oh my gosh, like, I cannot believe what path I went down. And I didn't have, you know, anyone kind of there to help me and to, you know, say, hey, you're going a little too far there. It's important to have your friends and the people that you're working with and practicing with. I would suggest more than two, if possible, because you'll always have that second outside opinion from what you're working on with the other person kind of go either, you know, yeah, that kind of, that seems right, or you'll have them go, well, that's not what I'm seeing, so you may want to, you know, look a little bit more into it and do some more discernment and figure out, you know, whether or not that is true and is actually happening. And it is so difficult when we're talking about things that are nonphysical that we can't tangibly touch 99% of the time that we are not able to see physically and can't get a good perimeter for. It's all based on our perceptions, how we sense things, how we see things, and how others sense and see those. So it's just something really to keep in mind, especially with astral projection. And I'm going to tag on to that as well. If somebody within the community, like, reaches out to you, and they're like, hey, are you okay? How are you doing? Like, it's really important to respond and take a seat back and not be reactionary. It may be just like, because a lot of us here, well, you know, the majority of us are energy workers or connected to energy in some way. And so even if we notice, like, a subtle difference, like, in how your energy is flowing, it doesn't mean that it's, you know, someone is picking on you or trying to give you a hard time. Because there really is a challenge sometimes in understanding, and it can be really overwhelming, it can be, you know, it's kind of like getting spirit drunk. It can be like, oh, my God, this is like the coolest, most, you know, powerful thing, you know, q, q, He-Man and Master of the Universe, you know, I have the power kind of thing. And so, you know, understanding and being honest with yourself and with others around you, too, is really beneficial. Because you're like, you know, this is what I think I experienced, but, you know, can you guys check it out? Can you do a scan? Or can you, do you have a minute to listen? And like that, we're here for that. So it's, and that's been kind of the journey of this server and this space that we're in is that it's a potential always to have, you know, something kind of happen. And, you know, you just need to know that you're supported and people are here for you, no matter what you're going through. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you. I do have a question for you, Adveng. Okay. And here, you know, I'd like to put you on the spot. How does a person know when or if they are astral projecting? Can you give me a little more clarification? Are you asking me, if someone is trying to project at night, for instance, how do you discern whether or not they're astral projecting or they're, you know, dreaming? Is that what you're asking? It would be from a, from the personal perspective, how would they, how would they know for sure that they were astral projecting? Because here's where we get into those kind of finite details, which we've been skirting around this whole conversation. So we've talked about astral projecting. We've talked about partial or half APing. We've talked about, you know, lucid dreaming. You know, to me, there's a strong connection between them that they can be at one distinct and separate things, but they can also kind of happen in a similar situation. So if a person was to come to you and they were like, you know what, I had a thing. I had this really weird experience. I think that this is what happened, but I'm not quite sure. How would you, how would you explain to them that, in a term that they would understand that, yeah, this is what to look for to verify that, yes, you were astral projecting or the other, that you didn't, that this was something else that happened? Well, the way I generally approach things is I look at them from a mundane perspective first, generally in a general skeptic but not overbearing way. So if someone were to come to me and say, hey, this is an experience I had, I would listen and try to figure out, you know, well, what did the person do? What did they experience? How did they see things? What did they feel? And I would relate that to experiences that I've had and say, well, it's possible that you projected. I can't tell you whether or not you did. It would be more of a discernment for the person to figure out if they did or did not. But the key here would be for the person to experience it again and be able to replicate the result multiple times rather than a one-off, hey, this happened once, is this what it is? If we – we can't base everything off of one specific instance. We have to look at things from a number of different instances and be able to have, you know, maybe a baseline and then from that baseline, you know, branch out. So your question is too open because I don't know what this – who this person is, what this person experienced, what they're doing, what they have done, but it all would depend on how it was – how they explained it to me and just basing it off of my personal experiences. And I hope this isn't a cop-out to the answer or to the question because it's so difficult to, you know, listen to someone tell me they're so enthusiastic about something and they're like, well, I had this amazing experience and all of these things happened and I think that it means this. And I'm listening to it and I'm just thinking, well, I mean, it sounds like a dream to me. It doesn't sound like it really has anything meaningful to me to interpret or, you know, someone talking about maybe, well, this is their first full projection and it's like, well, you know, this can 100 percent be a valid experience for you. So you could have in your paradigm, in your belief system, this was an astral projection for you. What matters after that is to experience it again so you have that baseline, that first experience. You need to be able to repeat it to be able to compare each of them to say, you know, well, I've done this 20 times now and I know that out of two of those, I can really tell the difference that I was, you know, dreaming or vice versa. But there's no, you know, some people say whenever you're lucid dreaming or if you're projecting, if you like, look at your feed and they dissolve, you know, you're lucid dreaming. If we get into, you know, maybe unintentional astral projection, unintentional lucid dreaming or even intentional lucid dreaming and projection, we can try and develop things that it's not like a sanity check. It could be a sanity check, however you want to phrase it, but specific things that we can do that consistently are the same each time. So, you know, for instance, you know, if you're on the astral plane, you know, you should be able to just push your hand through the wall, but if you're awake, you shouldn't be able to do that. Maybe in a lucid dream, you wouldn't be able to do that, but there are mechanisms in which we can develop that sense of, okay, yes, I know that I am projecting now, or I know that this is a dream because of these things. That's just something that you'll develop over time. Perfect. So the reason why I did ask you such an open-ended question is, and you nailed it because you got to exactly where I wanted to kind of segue into, and it's like anything that we do, it takes practice, especially when we're dealing with so much non-physicality. And we're dealing with perception and we're dealing with a lot of gnosis that we have to approach, in my opinion, like a combination of a scientist and somebody who's, you know, an athlete. One, we need to be logging these experiences. We need to have kind of a set time that this is the goal, we want to practice this, and we're actually logging the data, so to speak, right? So we're understanding if we can replicate, if it's non-replicatable, or if it's, you know, that one-off, that kind of odd experience. So the more that we continue to do it, just like the athlete, the more we practice, we're building that muscle memory. And there are locations, you know, that we access when we do astral project that we can then, like Asang alluded to earlier, we can tether, we can send a beacon, we can, we have memory of that place, you see. And so we can basically program those coordinates and use that as the place, okay, even if it's 15 seconds only, if it's 30 seconds, right? And then you start to kind of look around and experience the longer you can continuously go back to that space, you have a tendency to broaden your scope, right, widen your lens, see what you experience, what you glean from that location. And so if we approach it in a very kind of scientific or clinical aspect, it makes it easier for the validation and the understanding that comes with it, right, because we're developing our own methodologies. And then when you feel like you've really experienced it and you kind of got a handle on it, hey, yep, this is the time that I'm going to practice this, and this is where I'm going to go, and then within, you know, give yourself six months, give yourself a year. It doesn't have to be like, time is really weird. It doesn't, and our consciousness is, you know, functions on its own. So we don't have to limit ourselves by, oh, my God, if I don't have this figured out in three weeks, then I'm a failure and I'm going to skip it and I'm going to move on. No, it takes development. It takes discernment. And then after a while, you start to get into this rhythm. And then you can be like, oh, hey, you know what, I've had this really great experience. I feel like I've documented, I've got the data, I'm ready. And then you're going to say, hey, how's your practice been going? Do you feel like you're successful? And how about we meet at this location? Right? And you drop your beacon. And then the two of you can connect and meet up. And so once again, if you can bring somebody to that location, then that's validation in of itself. And that's also a moment where you should be celebratory because all of the work, all of the effort, all of that physical, that exercise, the data collecting has paid off because you were able to connect with someone else in that moment. Does that make sense or does it feel like I've totally just gone on a rambly tangent? I think the key from what you're saying is to get consistency. We need to make sure that what we're doing, we are able to do consistently and accurately. It's okay if it takes a while for that to happen. Like I said in the beginning, it took me over two years to be able to fully project. That's okay because I was consistent with it. I kept trying. I didn't let the failures get in my way. I continued to do it. I mean, there are things that I've been working on for the whole time that I've been an energy worker, and I'll continue to work on them pretty much forever. And it's okay. The main thing is keeping that consistency in what you're doing and trying to find that consistency while you're starting your practice or starting to do the new thing that you're trying to do. When is a failure not a failure? When it's a success. When you learn from it. Well, we should always be constantly learning. Right. And no matter what, any time that you fail at something or any time that an experiment isn't successful, you're still learning. And if we stop learning, then we stop advancing. Right. My key point is we use the word failure, and there generally is a negative connotation with it. And I will tell you, it took me a long time to work through this personally because failure means that something wasn't beneficial. Right. So taking that negative connotation, and it's just like, okay, well, that's just a first draft. How can you view it so that it's not in a negative light, that you're still growing and expanding from it? Because we have a tendency to want to stop if we don't feel like we're quote unquote successful with something or if we're failing at something. There is no letter grade. You're not getting graded on this. This is solely for you and your development and what are you willing to put into it. So that was just where I was trying to take that piece there, my friend. Yeah. Don't be hard on yourself. If you're not succeeding, that's okay because you're still learning while you are doing stuff. And just keep doing it. Consistency, keep practicing, keep going. If you need guidance, reach out to either of us or any staff or anyone you feel comfortable talking to. But the main thing is don't give up because you will reach your goal eventually. It may take time. It may take some work, but you can get to it. Yes, exactly. So then my next question is for you, Adfang, what is the easiest way or what would be the method that you find most beneficial for your system for you when you're astral projecting? How would you explain that to others? Can you repeat the question? No, I didn't. I just – you know what? We can save that for another day if we have any questions in the audience because I didn't realize that this had gone on for so long. I'm surprised we haven't been kicked off the stage yet, to be honest. I think last time that was a fluke, but I – yeah, you asked me that question and my brain stuttered kind of like whenever you hear pistachio. This is a – if you're not aware, it's an ongoing joke, so don't worry about pistachios. Right, exactly, exactly. Johnny, do you have any last questions or do you have any questions for us? Do we feel like we're good? Everybody's here. We're still tuned in. Okay, what about you, Johnny? Here we go. Johnny, you say that about everything. That's wonderful. Thank you. No, this is great. So what is your most – see, now you got my brain messed up. How would you suggest to someone asking you what would be the method that you would suggest on how to achieve a successful, whether it's half AP or partial astral projection or full astral projection? I think the very first thing for someone to do is going to be just sense their astral body and their astral self and try to see through their astral body. That may take a little bit of time. There are a few guides out there that you can look at. I don't have any to specifically link. I'm sure that you have some materials that would be helpful. But first, getting a feel for how your astral body is, how you can sense it. Then you can work on actually moving it and going to other places, walking around, that kind of thing. Yeah, I agree with that. The proof generally for me is in the pudding. We will continue to have these practice, these group sessions, these circles for astral projection. If you've noticed, I know Johnny was with us when we first started with the half AP. Grace, you came in, we did it last week and you were successful with yours. But what I want to do is make sure that we have beginner and more moderate or more advanced. Feel free to jump in to either one of those. It's really about sharing and connecting together and taking, for me, the first thing that I would say is remove yourself from any limiting thoughts or beliefs and fears that you may have. Go ahead. No, no. It's usually the fear that holds us back when we start to experience the weird kind of sensations within the body. But we can cover that in our next AP discussion. I just wanted to ask for clarification so people aren't scared to join. Whenever you're saying beginner versus intermediate or advanced, beginner is typically going to be a more fully guided, this is how we're going to project, and it's a more slower paced projection, versus intermediate or advanced is going to start out kind of assuming that you can get to that point on your own and we may be experiencing things that might be hard for a beginner to really discern. Correct. And that's it exactly. Because sometimes it takes a minute for somebody to be able to sit back, relax, and partial project, even in a situation that's safe and comfortable. There is that kind of reaction that kind of holds us back. So beginner doesn't mean bad or you don't know how to do it. It just means we're laying the foundation to give you the tools and we're there to help guide and assist you. Okay. Well, with that, we're going to plan on having another astral projection talk next session, perhaps, or next podcast, and perhaps delving a little more into the minutiae of different types of projection, different planes, and maybe just see where the discussion goes. But for now, I am Adfang. And I am AK Lady. Thank you for joining us today, and we will catch you next time. Yeah. Thank you guys for being here. Have a safe and blessed day. Bye.